Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, September 16, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.05.07)

  • [New York Times] Thunder Star Kevin Durant Wins First MVP Award (Wed, 07 May 2014 07:50:42 GMT)
    In accepting his first MVP award, Oklahoma City’s Kevin Durant made a point of sharing the honor with those who made it possible.

  • [New York Times] Heat Solve Nets Hex, Win 107-86 in Game 1 (Wed, 07 May 2014 07:26:42 GMT)
    Once the Miami Heat finally figured out how to get rolling against Brooklyn, they never ceded control.

  • [New York Times] Parker’s 33 Leads Spurs to 116-92 Game 1 Win (Wed, 07 May 2014 05:44:49 GMT)
    After nearly falling on their face in the opening round of the playoffs, the San Antonio Spurs found their footing Tuesday night and ran the Portland Trail Blazers off the court.

  • [New York Times] Warriors Fire Head Coach Jackson After Playoff Loss (Wed, 07 May 2014 05:38:37 GMT)
    The Golden State Warriors fired head coach Mark Jackson on Tuesday, three days after the team were knocked out of the NBA playoffs.

  • [New York Times] Spurs Spank Blazers in Game One (Wed, 07 May 2014 05:38:36 GMT)
    Portland Trail Blazers on Tuesday in Game One of their Western Conference semi-final.

  • [New York Times] Spurs 116, Trail Blazers 92: Parker and Spurs Roll Past Trail Blazers (Wed, 07 May 2014 04:59:49 GMT)
    Tony Parker had 33 points and 9 assists as San Antonio had little problem with Portland in the opening game of the Western Conference semifinals.

  • [New York Times] Heat 107, Nets 86: Heat Snuff Nets’ Hopes of Early Edge (Wed, 07 May 2014 03:47:00 GMT)
    The Nets swept the Heat during the regular season, but the Heat romped in Game 1 of their second-round postseason series.

  • [New York Times] Balanced Heat Take Game 1, Top Brooklyn 107-86 (Wed, 07 May 2014 02:17:46 GMT)
    Turns out, the Miami Heat can beat the Brooklyn Nets.

  • [New York Times] Heat Finally Beat Nets, Still Unbeaten in Playoffs (Wed, 07 May 2014 02:02:38 GMT)
    The Miami Heat reversed their regular season form against Brooklyn and dispatched the Nets 107-86 in the opening game of their Eastern Conference second round series on Tuesday. The Heat had lost all four meetings with the Nets during the regular season, but the two-time defending NBA champions have been dominant in the playoffs, improving to 5-0 after whitewashing Charlotte in the opening round.

  • [New York Times] Examples of How Clippers Could Benefit From League Takeover (Wed, 07 May 2014 01:43:39 GMT)
    Leagues have little interest in taking over the day-to-day operation of franchises, but recent history offers examples of how to navigate such a process.

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: Titles, Not M.V.P.s, Define the Greats (Wed, 07 May 2014 00:33:24 GMT)
    By winning the M.V.P. award, Kevin Durant has separated himself from the pack — and set himself up for criticism should his team fall short of the title.

  • [New York Times] Thunder’s Durant Topples James to Capture MVP Award (Wed, 07 May 2014 00:11:35 GMT)
    A humbled Kevin Durant heaped praise on his Oklahoma City Thunder teammates and called his mother the true MVP after winning the National Basketball Association’s top individual honor on Tuesday.

  • [New York Times] Sterling’s Right-Hand Man Is Placed on a Leave of Absence (Wed, 07 May 2014 00:07:50 GMT)
    The N.B.A. said on Tuesday that the move would “provide an opportunity for a new C.E.O. to begin on a clean slate and for the team to stabilize under difficult circumstances.”

  • [New York Daily News] Phil, Knicks have battle on hands as Warriors and Lakers want Kerr (Wed, 07 May 2014 03:08:08 GMT)
    Steve Kerr is now the top candidate for three high-profile jobs, with the Golden State Warriors joining the Lakers as formidable competition for Phil Jackson and the Knicks.

  • 104 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.05.07)

    1. Frank O.

      I could see this working out that Kerr goes to Golden State, a team with a far better core and Jackson coming to NYC.
      Call it a hunch.
      And Dolan likes the churchy guys, not that there is anything wrong with that.
      Kerr has a lot to keep him in California. I believe he waited to accept because he wants to see Golden State play out.
      And there is a legit argument to make that Jackson is a more established coach with a track record of success.
      I don’t know what to make of the back office whispers about Jackson – you win 50 games and get canned…
      I also know there are a lot of folks who don’t think Jackson is all that.
      But he’s got way more experience than Kerr in coaching.

      I haven’t read much in terms of comparisons. Anyone have any thoughts?

    2. Frank

      I still think Kerr is coming to New York. If anything this slight pause and the uncertainty that the GSW opening presents probably will get him either an extra year guaranteed or a higher per-year salary here. As a guy who hasn’t coached at any level and who by all accounts has a profound connection with Phil, I think having someone like Phil behind him is invaluable, both from an organizational standpoint and as a coaching mentor.

    3. Nick C.

      The GM/CEO who hired Jackson said “he needs to cultivate relationships outside of his players and coaches.” I take that as code for he needs to kiss my ass. I didn’t follow it carefully so it was strange to read that the guy who hired him two years ago is firing him. Didn’t he know who/what he was getting when he interviewed him? It’s not like Jackson is an unknown personality.

    4. Frank

      Re: Mark Jackson – at the end of the day, any/all of us who have bosses would be fired if we couldn’t get along with the higher-ups. And truthfully, with the talent on that roster, it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that the team actually should have been better than it was this year.

      I’m pretty sure Mark Jackson falls into the category of coaches who don’t move the needle one way or the other. Completely replaceable. If it’s Phil Jackson or Pop who are making waves with the front office, you make it work somehow. By all reports Thibs hasn’t gotten along well with the Chicago FO for years, but he’s so obviously a good coach that no one has done anything yet other than grumble to the press. But that obviously isn’t the case with Mark Jackson.

    5. Nick C.

      I agree you need to get along with your bosses, but sports is not normal business. Typically your boss did your job or is in the same field. The guy who hired Jackson neither coached nor played in the NBA. Most of these people come form non-basketball lines of work. It would to some extent be like having the guy in charge of the books for a restaurant telling the chef how to make the sauce. Anyway now that the first round is over where is the much promised Kerr hiring?

    6. mokers

      Golden State had a good roster, and they did piss away a lot of home games, but they did a really good job on the road and missed 19 games from Igoudala a dozen or so from Lee and bogut. I don’t think he got to pick all of his assistants. Management wanted him to spend more time in the offseason in the Bay Area and not leave to when they had off days. I don’t think what they wanted was unreasonable, but the management was content to leak and let Jackson flap in the wind a little bit. I think the kind of coaches they are looking for are going to be wary of coming into a situation like that.

    7. Hubert

      I was just thinking that about 5-6 weeks ago I called Ephus’ suggestion that the Pacers would seek to trade Hibbert for Lopez if things continued going south as extreme. Now it seems like wishful thinking on the Pacers’ part!

      Sorry, dude. You were right on that one. I had no idea just how impotent Hibbert had become (mostly because I began boycotting the league thanks to our idiot coach, who by the way altered the entire concept of our successful team to match up better with Roy Hibbert. It’s not enough that we fired that fired that fool.)

    8. Farfa

      Re: Mark Jackson. Ultimately, you have to give to the guy props for the resilience GSW has demonstrated in the Clippers series, but that’s all. He looks like a great “inner circle motivator”, what with his “us against the world” policy, which is a pretty good recipe for teams having your back, but also he looks like a poor people manager, even in regard to player rotation micromanagement. Also, coaches who play the “us against the world” card sooner or later get tuned out. Golden State did the right thing in letting him go, but only if they hire someone who really can get the maximum out of that roster (please, please, please, let it be MDA. Then they should trade Bogut, if doable, and load yourself up on stretch 4s who can play as 5s. Want a Bargnani?).

    9. lavor postell

      Thing with Jackson is you can’t just piss on your superiors at every turn and expect there to be no repercussions. Jackson and the assistant GM are apparently on non-speaking terms, he flat out refused to move to the Bay Area because he wanted to remain the pastor at his church in LA and he’s had all kinds of nasty run-ins with his assistant coaches. Additionally let’s not forget for all of his piety Jackson brought somebody to his introductory press conference that ended up being indicted on drug trafficking charges and also had to come to management about a stripper who was trying to extort him for money since she was in possession of nude pics of Jackson from an extra marital affair he had 6 years prior. Ultimately they had to get the FBI involved to run a sting operation to get the stripper and her co-conspirator. It’s not just about his lack of in-game adjustments and tactical nous, but also just a lot of off the court issues and relationships with superiors and subordinates that made his situation untenable.

    10. Hubert

      Funniest part was Woodson saying at the end of the season Cole’s strong play was due to the coaching staff working with him all season long.

      HAHAHA! That really happened?

    11. ephus

      Brook Lopez is a high variance player because of his foot issues. Like Yao and Walton (injury comparison not player value), he seems doomed to an early retirement. But when he is on the court, he provides exactly the easy offense that Indiana lacks.

      Hibbert is a high variance player because of his motor issues. When he is motivated, he is a game-changing defender and a good garbage man on offense. The idea that the Pacers need to run plays for Hibbert seems backwards to me. He is best used as a much bigger and stronger Plumlee, without the high flying part. He also tires easily (which makes sense at 7′ 2″ and 270 lbs). Assuming Garnett and/or Blatche are gone next year, there is room for 24 mpg of Hibbert on the Nets.

    12. Hubert

      Btw I see nothing wrong with firing Mark Jackson after he won 50 games. But then again I’m the guy who wanted to fire Mike Woodson after he won 54 games.

      I think the impact of bad coaching can sometimes lag the actual bad coaching. A good group of players can win for a season or two in spite of a bad coach, but once the players hit whatever ceiling they achieve on their own things can go south very quickly. (Or maybe I’m just projecting what I just witnessed here.)

      So kudos to Golden State for being proactive. As to all the arguments that you can’t fire a guy who just won 50+ games, just realize they would have said the same thing about Woodson last year, and they would have been wrong.

    13. JK47

      Even if the Knicks don’t get Steve Kerr, I think we’re all safe from a Mark Jackson coaching tenure. The Knicks are going to run the triangle or something very close to it, and Mark Jackson is most emphatically NOT a guy who will be implementing the triangle or any kind of “system” really.

    14. d-mar

      Now it seems the Jazz are interested in Kerr. It’s crazy that there’s all this interest for a guy who has never coached or assistant coached in the NBA (but I still want him for the Knicks)

      Also, sure seems like a Spurs-Heat finals rematch is inevitable, which would be awesome, particularly if San Antonio can win it.

    15. DRed

      I still don’t know what to make of Hibbert. If he’s not playing with some undisclosed injuries than I’ve never seen anything like this before in my life. He’s not a great player by any means, but he’s just not this bad. It’s bizarre.

    16. ptmilo

      There is no way our current Jackson is hiring our former Jackson. And we can be thankful for that. The offense he ran at Golden State looked a lot like the our Carmelo iso buffet, with more brimstone. I am rooting for Kerr, but I don’t know that I should be. He seems full of common sense but rarely says anything that really strikes a chord. Plus he voted TH2 for ROY, which I don’t believe was a ploy.

      Maybe it would be worth taking a flier on a guy like Battier or even Nash if he retires. Probably better to be an assistant first, but we won’t contend for a while anyway and learning under Phil a Jackson is something different. Otherwise I’m rooting for SVG.

    17. lavor postell

      If Kerr leaves us at the altar which I don’t think he will, I think the Knicks would be well served in making a big push after Fred Hoiberg. At Iowa State ran a 4 out, 1 in high PNR offense that emphasized all players being able to shoot and drive. He also was a master at in game adjustments and did a good job of adjusting to ISU losing Niang, their best player, during the tournament and getting them to the Sweet 16 by switching over to a spread 5 offense in one day of preparation. He may not have implemented a ton of triangle influenced ideas, but he’s young, charismatic, won the Big 12 Tournament this year and seems flexible and open to new ideas.

    18. Douglas

      I still don’t know what to make of Hibbert. If he’s not playing with some undisclosed injuries than I’ve never seen anything like this before in my life. He’s not a great player by any means, but he’s just not this bad. It’s bizarre.

      The closest parallel I can think of is baseball players getting the “yips”: Chuck Knoblauch forgetting how to throw to 1st base; Rick Ankiel losing his ability to pitch strikes.

    19. Donnie Walsh

      If Kerr is the Knicks first and only option, and he spurns NY for a better venue, where does that leave us? …perhaps there’s somebody within the organization Phil Jackson can turn to? Is there anybody already on the Knick payroll with any coaching experience at all? Anybody familiar with the triangle offense the team seems to want to run? Lord, I hope so. But obviously, if there was, we probably wouldn’t be betting on a rookie coach with no experience to guide us, right?

    20. Donnie Walsh

      I still don’t know what to make of Hibbert…I’ve never seen anything like this before

      I’ve seen Landry Fields.

    21. Nick C.

      Landry fields is now the “defensive stopper.” He seemed to be brought in late game as part of offense/defense substitutions. I’m not sure anyone foresaw that.

      Since I went on about Jackson, thanks for enlightening me. You would think being a stubborn dickhead would come through on an interview/research, but that’s a problem for Warriorblogger not here. lol

    22. EB

      I still don’t know what to make of Hibbert…I’ve never seen anything like this before

      Well last year there was this guy named Jason Kidd on the Knicks.

    23. stratomatic

      Fields a pretty good defender and very good rebounder for his position, but he has no offensive skills at all. He could make a very good living just being a good spot up shooter on top of that. But after the early part of his rookie season he’s been dreadful from outside He also has no handle. So the only way he can score is in transition or on offensive rebounds. That’s not even going to cut it as a backup.

      If I was him I would spend every spare minute working on my corner 3 (or something like that) and some handles otherwise he’s at risk of being out of the league at the end of this contract.

    24. Douglas

      Landry Fields never lost his ability to rebound. His shot disappeared after elbow surgery, though.

    25. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, Fields has never been the same after his surgery (which he then needed another surgery on top of the original surgery, which suggests to me that his shooting is pretty much fucked), but he is still a decent player as a small forward who plays around the basket. The problem is that the NBA has moved away from small forwards who play around the basket, so he pretty much has no role in the current NBA besides a strong defender at the three (as we saw in New York, when he played the three he was an excellent defender – when he played the two he was a shitty defender). That’s probably enough to keep him on NBA rosters in the future, but only as a back of the bench guy.

      Now if his injury ever heals, then maybe? I find it hard to believe he’ll ever really be healed, though.

    26. Brian Cronin

      If Kerr is the Knicks first and only option, and he spurns NY for a better venue, where does that leave us? …perhaps there’s somebody within the organization Phil Jackson can turn to? Is there anybody already on the Knick payroll with any coaching experience at all? Anybody familiar with the triangle offense the team seems to want to run? Lord, I hope so. But obviously, if there was, we probably wouldn’t be betting on a rookie coach with no experience to guide us, right?

      I think Z-Man is correct that if not Kerr, it will likely be some other former player of Jackson’s, like Ron Harper or even Derek Fisher. I think Jackson is committed to a brand-new coach, which is why Kerr is so important to his plan – he is a brand-new coach that everyone thinks will do well. Fisher might be good, too, but he seems like a worse bet than Kerr.

    27. stratomatic

      I’m not a huge fan of the triangle because it has generally been a failure away from Jackson and some of the greatest players of all time. That’s one reason it never grew in popularity. But if that’s the direction we are going, I’d consider anything other than Kerr a huge “fail”. Kerr has been preparing for this for quite awhile. I don’t want some other former player that also just happens to know the triangle to coach.

    28. thenamestsam

      Yeah I don’t think Landry is comparable to Hibbert because of the injury factor. Also with both Landry and Kidd their shots completely fell apart, but they both maintained the rest of their games for the most part. Obviously being total non-shooters dramatically eroded their value, but it’s not like they stopped doing the other things they did well – they passed, rebounded etc. Hibbert’s offense has come and gone in the past, maybe not to this extent, but if it was just his offense people wouldn’t be making such a huge deal out of it. But 0 rebounds in a game for him is inexplicable and it has happened twice in the last 4 games. In the playoffs so far he has 26 rebounds in 8 games. 5.5 rebounds per 36 for a 7 foot defensive center. It’s gone way beyond what happened to Landry or Kidd.

    29. Frank

      I still don’t know what to make of Hibbert. If he’s not playing with some undisclosed injuries than I’ve never seen anything like this before in my life. He’s not a great player by any means, but he’s just not this bad. It’s bizarre.

      if you look at game finder in B-R, there are literally only 35 games in the last 30 years in which a starting frontcourt player played 12+ minutes and recorded zero points, zero rebounds, and had 4+ fouls. That’s basically once per year, and half the games are Jon Koncak and Jason Collins. Hibbert has done that twice in the last 2 weeks!

      Just amazing how awful he’s been. There has to be an injury or something. Or Delonte slept with him mom?

    30. DRed

      In the playoffs so far he has 26 rebounds in 8 games. 5.5 rebounds per 36 for a 7 foot defensive center.

      Right, Hibbert’s always been a poor rebounder (he averages around 9 per 36 for his career), but now he’s hitting the boards like Bargnani and he can’t score either.

    31. lavor postell

      I don’t know if any of you caught the interview they showed on Inside the NBA last night with Paul George where they asked him about team chemistry last night. He answered and said it’s great and “best in the league” but man did he look like he was full of shit. Something has definitely happened on that team completely unrelated to basketball or injuries and must involve Hibbert in some way, because his drop off isn’t just him physically not trying, his head is just not in the game. I’m not going to speculate on what it is, but I don’t think he’s simply in a funk or has some injury.

    32. Hubert

      Now it seems the Jazz are interested in Kerr. It’s crazy that there’s all this interest for a guy who has never coached or assistant coached in the NBA

      Even crazier:

      three months ago all I wanted was someone not named Mike Woodson.

      Now I’m going to be upset if we get anyone other than Steve Kerr! I’ve been listening to him announce games all playoffs and I’m totally smitten.

    33. d-mar

      I guarantee that once the Pacers are eliminated (hopefully this round in 4 games) something will come out about Hibbert. And it’ll be either weird or shocking or both.

    34. Frank

      Isola just tweeted (probably appropriately) — “How long before Phil Jackson signs Andrew Bynum?”

      That’s almost certainly happening if Bynum would accept a minimum deal.

    35. Z

      It wasn’t just Field’s shooting that fell off a cliff halfway through his rookie season. His rebounding/36 actually dropped by over two a game. He definitely went from being a very good basketball player to being pretty worthless in the course of 1 season. Hibbert has a larger body of work, and has had an upward trajectory in his carrer to this point, but he was a terrible rebounder early in his career and is still pretty bad given his size and position. (For what it’s worth, Field’s was actually an far superior rebounder as a rookie than Hibbert: even with Field’s 2nd half flopoff, he still posted an 18.1 drb% as opposed to Hibbert’s anemic 14.1 and 15.5 his first two seasons).

    36. Hubert

      I still don’t know what to make of Hibbert. I’ve never seen anything like this before in my life.

      I’ve never seen it in basketball, but I’ve seen it in baseball a lot. It’s like watching the 2012 Yankees vs Detroit.

      Or the current Rangers’ power play. Or fucking Rick fucking Nash. (I digress.)

    37. Hubert

      Isola just tweeted (probably appropriately) — “How long before Phil Jackson signs Andrew Bynum?”

      That’s almost certainly happening if Bynum would accept a minimum deal.

      Did Phil actually like Bynum, though? I feel like Bynum drove him nuts, and he very often was benched/not trusted late in games.

      Bynum is one of those guys that people will put up with when they’re talented (and he was, when Phil had him), but will get kicked to the curb as soon as the talent erodes.

    38. lavor postell

      Or the current Rangers’ power play. Or fucking Rick fucking Nash. (I digress.)

      I only watch hockey in the playoffs and always root for the Rangers, but this has been immensely frustrating. Has this struggle on the power play happened for this long previously this season or is this just a thing that’s happening right now?

      Btw Spero is apparently leaving the Knicks broadcast due to scheduling conflicts with Mike fucking Crispino to come back into the mix.

    39. johnno

      ” Slept with Hibbert’s fiancee or side piece”
      Am I the only one who thinks that it’s hilarious that Hibbert might be mad at George, not because George slept with Hibbert’s wife, but because George slept with the woman with whom Hibbert is cheating on his wife? Like it’s ok for Hibbert to double cross his own wife, but it’s not ok for a teammate to double cross him. I love that logic.

    40. EB

      ” Slept with Hibbert’s fiancee or side piece”
      Am I the only one who thinks that it’s hilarious that Hibbert might be mad at George, not because George slept with Hibbert’s wife, but because George slept with the woman with whom Hibbert is cheating on his wife? Like it’s ok for Hibbert to double cross his own wife, but it’s not ok for a teammate to double cross him. I love that logic.

      Modified solipsism where only Hibbert, George and Hibbert’s mistress are real people.

    41. Z-man

      I think Kerr’s a virtually a done deal, he’s just driving the price up. Good for him! Dolan should not get away with paying him like a rookie coach (even though he is one!)

    42. Hubert

      I only watch hockey in the playoffs and always root for the Rangers, but this has been immensely frustrating. Has this struggle on the power play happened for this long previously this season or is this just a thing that’s happening right now?

      It had been a problem for a few years. In last year’s playoffs it was just as bad. And it was one of the main reasons Tortarella got fired.

      Then Vigneault came in and it was league average or better all year, which was fine.

      But what you’re watching now? This is a sudden return to something we thought would never happen again. It would be like if Hibbert rebounded from this mess to return to form all next year, and then suddenly did this AGAIN in next year’s playoffs.

      But Rick Nash is pretty much becoming the Canadian ARod.

    43. mokers

      I think Kerr’s a virtually a done deal, he’s just driving the price up. Good for him! Dolan should not get away with paying him like a rookie coach (even though he is one!)

      Phil to Kerr: “Trust me, if you fuck with Jerry West a little bit, Dolan will give you more money.”

    44. ephus

      When Hibbert was entering the draft, the knocks on him were (1) too slow, (2) too weak, (3) little stamina and (4) no offensive skills. During his time as a Pacer, Hibbert was diagnosed with asthma, which helped with stamina. He worked out to become quite strong. And he improved his basketball skills to be passable on offense.

      The Pacers, however, lost sight of the fact that Hibbert is not a complete player. If he was 6’6″, he could not play in the D League. His skills are sufficient to get his size on the court, but no more. For example, he would be routed by Mozgov in a skills competition.

      When Hibbert goes badly, the answer is to have him do less, but with greater intensity. At a minimum, he can be a Mark Eaton or (much stouter) Manute Bol. He should be setting solid screens on offense, protecting the rim on defense and boxing out at both ends. Points should come from offensive rebounds, free rolls and rim runs. If he can establish post-position in the first ten seconds if a possession with one foot in the paint, he can get a touch.

      Hibbert’s offensive explosion against the Knicks was IIRC his last 20 point game. Asking him to be that guy is setting him up to fail.

    45. thenamestsam

      When Hibbert goes badly, the answer is to have him do less, but with greater intensity.

      I don’t disagree with you in theory ephus, but aren’t they already asking him to do less? He’s a 30 minutes a night guy, a key cog, who’s played 12 minutes in game 5 and 6 against Atl, and 18 in game 3 of that series and game 1 of the current series. FGA are cut almost in half, his usage is down, etc. They really are asking him to do less already but the problem is that he’s doing nothing at all.

    46. Kahnzy

      Re: PG sleeping with Hibbert’s wife.

      That has all the makings of just a baseless rumor. I would hope a site dedicated to making reasoned arguments with evidence to back them up would be above believing nothing but a rumor simply because they like the idea that it might be true.

      This is no defense of Hibbert. The man has been an absolute embarrassment lately, and I agree that there is likely something wrong with him. But jumping aboard the S.S. Rumormill just because it looks like a fun ride is something I would expect to see on TMZ, and not a site that prides itself on real evidence (even though some people like to offer real evidence in extremely limited contexts as if it were gospel).

    47. ephus

      The Pacers keep trying to get Hibbert off early by feeding him on the blocks. When that goes badly, he mopes and pouts. Tell him before the game he is not going to get touches and to play like Pistons-era Rodman, Eaton and Bol. The rebounds and blocks will come if he plays with energy.

    48. ephus

      From afar, it seems to me as if Hibbert has tried to show he has Bynum’s offensive skills and picked up Bynum’s attitude and lethargy.

      Andrew Bynum:NBA::Ted McGinley:TV series.

    49. ephus

      As MDA says, the ball finds energy. Hibbert has been a three-toed sloth since the ASG.

    50. d-mar

      @41 Spero Dedes is leaving and we’re getting more of Mike Crispino?

      Please tell me there’s an announcer to be named later as part of this deal, Crispino is one of the worst of all time. “Melo….to the basket….and he scores!….and the Knicks go up by 4!….what a move by Melo!…..no wait…..I think they blew a whistle……did they take the basket away?….is it an offensive foul?….yes it is….so we’ll go the other way…my mistake”

    51. DRed

      You can’t stop Bradley “The Real” Beal. Especially if you’re the Knicks.

    52. Brian Cronin

      I love the headline about how Jackson is “irked” over being fired. Oh, really, you’re not totally cool with it? So weird! That’s some big breaking news there!

    53. ephus

      Hibbert’s last four points have all come from effort. Strong rebounding position —> free throws. Sprinting in transition –> Stephenson penetration and dish.

    54. Brian Cronin

      It is so annoying how the NBA Executive of the Year is always just “The Narrative of the Year” award. The idea that Buford has never won it until now is absurd.

    55. yellowboy90

      George is getting frustrated. I think having to run with Beal all game is getting t him. I thought it was a mistake for Indy to put George on Beal. That’s a different type of cover because even if Beal doesn’t have a good game you are getting run off of screens all night getting bumped and knocked around.

    56. Cock Jowles Has Predicted the Last Three Knicks Seasons

      For the record, I teared up when Kevin Durant thanked his mom. Easily my favorite basketball player in the league, as of today. I had no idea that a person could be that good at a sport dominated by cocky showboats and be so ridiculously humble. I bet that if LeBron were sitting on that stage, Durant would have thanked him for making him the great player that he is.

      Russell Westbrook is sinking the Thunder off-balance 20-footer by off-balance 20-footer.

      For the record, I never make totally outlandish claims on this site. Nor would I in a college classroom, where I no longer work. (Unfortunately, Z-man and jon abbey were unsuccessful in removing me from my position; I now work in manufacturing for much, much more money than I made in academia. My Ratemyprofessors profile is still sterling, though. Sorry, johnno: my students, peers and supervisors all loved the way I taught.)

      I simply talk about basketball events differently than you do. I value them differently. I do not think that Kobe assists are a real thing. Dribble penetration is, however, most certainly a real thing, but defenders respond to an NBA-quality player driving into the lane the same way. It’s pure reaction. If you think during a basketball play, you’re done. Whether it’s 2002 T-Mac or 2014 Ray Felton, that defender is coming to help. And that leaves a player open on the weakside. Therefore, it is important that guards drive in the paint instead of taking off-balance 20-footers.

      Offensive rebounds are important. Steals are important. Not turning the ball over is important. When I see players who get offensive boards, steal the ball, and don’t turn the ball over (and we have better turnover stats, now), I think, “That player must do something well on the court.” Then we can figure out what it is. This is where we differ, johnno. You must learn to accept it or you will be mad forever. Mad. As in, “U mad,” which is not what you should be.

    57. johnno

      Jowles -
      3 things –
      I never get “mad” at anything that is said on this site. Much of what I ( and many others on this site — including you I suspect at times) say is said with tongue firmly implanted in cheek.
      I’m sorry but I think that you do sometimes ( but not always) say some outlandish things. (Aren’t you the guy who said that Jordan Hill was awesome at basketball?)
      Finally, intuitively, I agree that offensive rebounding is important, but on this rare occasion on which you and I agree, the numbers don’t seem to support us. This year, nine of the 11 worst teams in the league in offensive rebound rate made the playoffs.

    58. johnno

      P.S. I was kind of disappointed that you didn’t respond to my post about your teaching sooner.

    59. DRed

      This year, nine of the 11 worst teams in the league in offensive rebound rate made the playoffs.

      Let me guess-one of the two that did not plays in Madison square garden?

    60. nicos

      I think steals have to be contextualized- too many guys (like Westbrook or Corey Brewer) get them by gambling way off their men or (James Harden I’m looking at you) lazily swiping at the ball as their man blows by them. Chris Paul (or Shump in his rookie year) getting steals on the ball is awesome, James Harden picking up a few steals while otherwise giving his man a free run into the lane time and time again isn’t.

    61. Z-man

      “Unfortunately, Z-man and jon abbey were unsuccessful in removing me from my position; I now work in manufacturing for much, much more money than I made in academia.”

      Alas, that my tireless efforts didn’t pan out was a bitter pill to swallow (almost as bitter as a bleach cocktail) but I’ll sleep better knowing that the corporate world accomplished what I could not.

      Seriously, the skill with which you flatter yourself is truly without parallel.

      You are clearly a highly intelligent, clever, and witty guy. I’m sure those qualities served you well as a professor, and that your glowing ratings are real and deserved. But do I believe that one’s blogging persona offers a window into one’s underlying character? Yes, Jowles, I do. If I recall correctly, Mike K recently posted a good read on this correlation.

      Still, I have agreed with you far more often than disagreed, and even when we disagree it’s often more about degree than anything else. And I enjoy even your most insufferable posts, and hope they keep coming. Go Knicks!!

    62. Brian Cronin

      I love this footnote from Grantland’s oral history of the famous (infamous?) King/Lakers 2002 Western Conference Finals matchup:

      Horry spent about half his interview arguing that most of this oral history’s sequences occurred in different years. Horry literally has too many championships to differentiate them all.

      That’s hilariously awesome.

    63. Brian Cronin

      I love this quote from Horry, too, about his legendary game-winning three in Game 4:

      Horry: I was designing to be out there because I’m always going to go for the 3 to win. I don’t like that tie B.S. and going to overtime.

      I don’t like that tie B.S. How awesome of a line is that?

    64. Cock Jowles Has Predicted the Last Three Knicks Seasons

      I’m not a troll. I genuinely believe that offensive rebounds are very important. I don’t think this controversial, even if it says that Drummond’s ranks with the best rookie seasons of all-time. And he does. It is, to me, an example of the availability heuristic or cascade that we assume that Drummond’s was not an all-time great season just because we don’t have years of dominance and/or media attention for him like we do Hakeem et al. This is not controversial. This is plausible.

    65. johnno

      “I’m not a troll.”
      Uh-oh. Me-thinks he doth protest too much. Who said you were a troll? All kidding aside, I don’t think that you are a troll, but I do think that you sometimes exaggerate to make a point. For example, I don’t think that you really believe that Jordan Hill is “awesome at basketball,” but that your point was more, “hey guys, check out his numbers; he’s a much more effective player than most of you realize.” If that was your point, you were right – while he certainly isn’t awesome, he’s much better than I realized. (See professor, you did open my mind so I am not hopeless.) Same thing with Drummond. I don’t think that you really believe that his 7 points/7 rebounds was a better rookie year than Wilt’s 38/26 per game but if your point was that, as an offensive rebounder, he is already historically good and, if the rest of his game develops, he will go down as an all-time great, you are probably right .

    66. Hubert

      For the record, I never make totally outlandish claims on this site.

      This is an amazing piece of craftsmanship, THCJ. You made the most outlandish claim I’ve ever read from you while claiming you never do such a thing. I’m not kidding, I’m impressed.

      And of course you are not a troll, you are a valuable contributor who we all enjoy reading and I am sorry your counterpart has abandoned us at the moment he looks most wrong. But I have to press you on something I’ve been chiding you about:

      what did you actually predict? Because I could have sworn it was 47 wins or something like that.

      And full credit for being right on Bargnani. But wasn’t most of your prediction based on how bad he would make us? I thought the premise of your prediction was replacing Kidd’s minutes with Bargnani would destroy us. And that definitely was harmful. But we were shit without AB, too. And the biggest problem with this team was on defense, not scoring.

      So please enlighten me, because I’m not sold on the idea that you actually predicted this like you’re claiming.

    67. johnno

      “I genuinely believe that offensive rebounds are very important. I don’t think this controversial, even if it says that Drummond’s ranks with the best rookie seasons of all-time.”
      By the way, since the old school stats like points and rebounds per game are not likely to convince you that Chamberlain had a better rookie year than Drummond (although you have to acknowledge that leading the league in points and rebounds while playing nearly 48 minutes a game is pretty impressive), Wilt had 17 Win Shares and a .245 WS/48, while Drummond was at 4.5 and .172. David Robinson was 15.1/.241, Alcindor 13.8/.187 and Tim Duncan 12.8/.192
      Re: offensive rebounding — as I said in a prior post, while I agree with you that offensive rebounds are very important, this year, most of the playoff teams were lousy at offensive rebounding. Nine of the 16 playoff teams (including the Heat, Spurs, Clippers, Mavs and Pacers) were in the bottom 11 in the league in offensive rebounding rate, while the Pistons, Kings, Nuggets, Celtics and Cavaliers were all in the top 10. Maybe teams are better off hustling back on defensive rather than crashing the offensive boards. For what it’s worth, the Nets, Clippers, Mavs, Heat, Suns and Rockets were all in the bottom 10 in defensive rebounding rate.

    68. Farfa

      Offensive rebounding is a nice piece of evidence of the value of a player, along with steals, because those are the box scores quantities that lead to better chances of a made field goal (PPP-wise). Offensive rebounding as a team, anyway, doesn’t necessarily say anything about the value of that team, since some coaches choose to give up on offensive rebounding chances to have a better transition defense.

    69. thenamestsam

      Offensive rebounding as a team, anyway, doesn’t necessarily say anything about the value of that team, since some coaches choose to give up on offensive rebounding chances to have a better transition defense.

      But if on a team level the trade off of less offensive rebounds for better transition defense is a net positive (not saying this is necessarily a fact, just suppose for now) then how would it not be the case that on an individual level the same would hold true, i.e. a player who gets less offensive rebounds but plays better transition defense is contributing a net positive?

      I’d posit that the reason is that offensive rebounds on an individual level are valuable all else being equal but the issue is that we’re assuming that anything we can’t measure (specifically in this case transition defense) is equal when it’s not.

    70. DRed

      Drummond was at 4.5 and .172. David Robinson was 15.1/.241, Alcindor 13.8/.187 and Tim Duncan 12.8/.192

      Robinson was 24, Kareem was 22, and Duncan was 21. Drummond was 19.

    71. DRed

      Six of the twelve worst teams in basketball in terms of turnovers per 100 possessions made the playoffs. Therefore, taking care of the ball is overrated.

    72. DRed

      Five of the eleven worst teams in basketball at free throw rate this season made the playoffs. Therefore, it is not important that players get to the free throw line.

    73. JK47

      Okay, great, so Detroit ranked #1 in offensive rebounding. They were still the #19 offense in the league, and were 29th in the league in defensive eFG%. Shouldn’t a team with “the greatest rookie center ever,” a guy who spends his nights pooping on the legacy of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, make more of an impact than that? He was the “anchor” of the #25 defense in the league.

      And Drummond himself was a MAIN REASON why the Pistons were a poor defensive team. Even hardcore Piston fans will tell you he is not yet a high-IQ defender, and that he struggles against basketball’s most basic play, the pick-and-roll.

      The year before Kareem arrived in the NBA, the Milwaukee Bucks were an expansion team, and a bad one. They were 9th in the league (out of 14 teams) in offense, 10th in defense. The next year, it’s Kareem’s rookie year– boom, #2 offense, #6 defense.

      In Kareem’s second year, the Bucks were the #1 offense AND the #1 defense in the league, led the league in offensive AND defensive eFG%, and went 12-2 in the playoffs, demolishing every other team in the league. He led the league in scoring and put up a .326 WS48, basically making the league his bitch. We’re really going to sit here and argue whether or not Andre Drummond is in the same class? It’s a dumb argument. He’s great at offensive rebounding, and that’s great. But let’s get real.

    74. DRed

      Drummond’s also very good at defensive rebounding, scoring, at shot blocking. In fact, he’s better than the average center at everything but passing.

      Here are the pistons top 8 players by minutes:

      1. Josh Smith-Josh Smith is an awful fucking basketball player.
      2. Brandon Jennings-not as terrible as Josh Smith, but still pretty fucking bad.
      3. Greg Monroe-solidly average
      4. Andre Drummond-awesome
      5. Kyle singler-average
      6. Rodney Stuckey-even worse than Josh Smith
      7. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope-mediocre for a rookie, bad for an NBA player
      8. Will Bynum-really terrible basketball player

      Drummond is literally the only above average player who got good minutes for the Pistons this season. That team is the tankapalooza Sixers without Drummond.

    75. Mars

      I believe one important factor when talking about rebounds that you are all missing is the teams fg% and their opponents fg% they allowed throughout the year. For instance the heat take a lot of good quality shots so of course their offensive rebounds would be lower because they shoot higher percentages leaving less boards to grab

    76. Frank

      Re: all this back and forth about the value of rebounds etc. — there are Four Factors for a reason, not One Factor or Two Factors or Three Factors. And it’s not only your “own” 4 factors but how you can affect your opponent’s 4 factors.

      So if you think giving up offensive rebounds to get better defensive position will lead to more of a decrease in your opponent’s eFG than it will improve your own, then you do that. That’s worked great for Miami, Boston (historically), SA, etc. Conversely, if you send 3 guys to offensive glass every time and lead the league in ORB%, but are simultaneously good enough at transition defense that you don’t give up open run-outs all the time, then yes, ORBs are good for you.

      Isolations are relatively low-TO possessions, but are also low eFG possessions. So if you turn the ball over a little more but passing the ball more leads to better eFG, then that’s what you do.

      etc.

    77. lavor postell

      So if there are less ORB opportunities on a good team since they make more shots wouldn’t that diminish Drummond’s value to a certain extent?

      I really can’t believe that people are making an argument that Drummond could be as good as Kareem when he’s 22. Drummond led a fairly talented UConn team to a fucking 9 seed before losing to Iowa State in the first round of the tournament. At the same age Kareem was busy doing things like scoring 56 in his first varsity level game, winning a national championship, winning a player of the year award, winning the Most Outstanding player of the Tournament and was a First Team All-American.

      Drummond isn’t good at scoring. He’s good at dunking off of PNR and capitalizing on putback opportunities. You can’t run a play for him through the post. He’s not a good passer so you can’t utilize him in the high post area. He’s good at shotblocking. Awesome, too bad he still fucking sucks on defense and get blocks because he’s usually out of position and scrambling to recover on defense and when he does it in time it usually ends up as a blocked shot.

      Drummond could be scary good and maybe he ends up being a HOF’er but give it a rest with the historic, legendary, once in a lifetime level performance rhetoric. Drummond is basically going to be a better DeAndre Jordan. That means he’ll be an extremely good player in a very specific context with big limitations. A player all the WP groupies and their offshoots will talk about as all-time legends that nobody else will take seriously because it doesn’t make any fucking sense.

    78. johnno

      “Robinson was 24, Kareem was 22, and Duncan was 21. Drummond was 19.”
      I realize that. I was only responding to Jowles’s statement earlier in the year that Drummond had the best rookie season of any center in the history of the league, which was absurd on its face. Note — I am NOT saying that Drummond is not really good and I am not saying that I would not love to have him on the Knicks. To the contrary, I think that Drummond has a real good chance to be an HOF-er.

    79. Nick C.

      re:90 That analysis seems accurate and would have been the same coming into the season so how on earth did that pre-season wins predictor that infamously had the Knicks @ 37 have the Pistons doing so well?

      @91 Mars: I think rebound % = percentage of available rebounds irrespective of how many they are per game.

    80. Hubert

      Drummond is basically going to be a better DeAndre Jordan.

      Yeah but the people who think Drummond is the best rookie center of all time also think DeAndre Jordan is a top NBA player, too, so being better than DeAndre Jordan means a lot using that value system.

    81. Mars

      I was stating that fact because of the arguments about teams being in the bottom of the league in offensive rebounding and how Drummond was particularly good at offensive rebounding. I would like to see the heats fg% vs Detroit’s for the year but I am not able to look that up at this moment

    82. DRed

      Drummond isn’t good at scoring. He’s good at dunking off of PNR and capitalizing on putback opportunities.

      Those shots don’t score points? Huh.

    83. Will the Thrill

      Those shots don’t score points? Huh.

      Yeah, they score about 10-14 per game. Just like Chandler and DeAndre Jordan. So he’s good at scoring at a limited volume.

    84. DRed

      Yeah, they score about 10-14 per game. Just like Chandler and DeAndre Jordan. So he’s good at scoring at a limited volume.

      Drummond averaged 15 points per/36. That’s top 10 for centers who played at least 45 games. He’s no Wilt Chamberlain, but he’s good at scoring. Maybe it’s nothing but dunking offensive rebounds, but he gets a shitload of offensive rebounds, so that’s a pretty good skill for him to have.

    85. Donnie Walsh

      Statistically, Artis Gilmore had a far superior rookie season than Drummond. And he won both rookie of the year AND mvp in the ABA that season. Gilmore was a WS whore much like Drummond. He managed to make the Hall without having much team success in the NBA. Not sure what this proves. I just wanted to share with the world that the ABA had stat-friendly centers I guess.

    86. lavor postell

      It’s an extremely good skill for Drummond to have but its not like you can throw him the ball in the post and he’s going to hang 15-20 points up there. My idea of scorer is somebody the defense has to pay attention too when they have the ball in an isolation situation. Drummond in isolation fucking sucks.

      Also I’m not saying that scoring is a way more valuable skill than offensive rebounding, but I think commanding a defense’s attention so that they shade extra defenders in your direction is. The greatest players capitalize on that to the benefit of the team and this is where our very own Carmelo Anthony struggles to maximize his greatest asset. His efficiency is one thing we can argue about for another 4 years without anybody agreeing, but I think what everybody can agree on is that while Melo has become a more willing passer he still has a lot of room for improvement in that aspect of his game.

      I think Drummond would be an absolute monster if he played with a high volume scorer that commanded the defense’s attention because he is a great finisher around the hoop so any lapse by the defense would be punished. I also think it would increase his ORB opportunities as defenders scramble and fail to box him out.

      Anyways that’s just my theory and I don’t have any statistical support for it. My last post probably made it seem like I think Drummond isn’t very good, which is not the case. I just think his greatness is overstated a bit by some and that his game has some severe limitations that he needs to work on. Time is obviously on his side.

    87. johnno

      “Statistically, Artis Gilmore had a far superior rookie season than Drummond”
      If you are going to count the ABA, based on WS and WS48, so did Swen Nater.

    88. Mars

      So I was finally able to pull the stats and the teams mentioned above with the lowest offensive rebounding rate are the top four teams (excluding the pacers who ranked 17th and have no excuse especially with hibbert down there) in the league in fg% therefore their rebounding rate would be lower because of fewer missed shots. Btw Detroit ranked 20th leaving a lot more offensive boards to grab then the heat who ranked number one hitting over 50% of their shots. So would Drummond be as effective on a very productive team is the question

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