Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, September 16, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.04.14)

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Melo still can’t cope with playoff-free ’14 (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 00:15:51 EDT)
    NEW YORK — Following what could have been his final game of the season and perhaps even last as a New York Knick on Sunday, Carmelo Anthony still seemed like he was in a state of shock about not making the playoffs.The Knicks were officially eliminated from playoff contention on Saturday night. However, Anthony said missing the postseason for the first time in his career hadn’t really set in … yet.Getting ready for summer vacation this early is a more agonizing feeling for Anthony than the pain he feels in his throbbing shoulder, which ultimately could keep him out of the remaining two games of the season.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Melo may get MRI on shoulder (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 00:14:11 EDT)
    Carmelo Anthony may have played his last game at Madison Square Garden on Sunday night. The free-agent-to-be will huddle with the New York Knicks’ medical staff in the coming days to determine whether he plays in the team’s final two regular-season games. Anthony has been playing with an injured right shoulder for the past 11 days. He said on Sunday night that he may get an MRI to determine the extent of the injury. “Maybe in the next couple of days, I’ll try to make something happen with that,” Anthony said.

  • [New York Newsday] Mike Woodson takes responsibility for Knicks' situation (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 01:07:58 EDT)
    Mike Woodson took the blame for the Knicks' failure to make the playoffs and apologized to their fans Sunday.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Game of the Week: Grizzlies at Suns (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 04:28:02 GMT)
    Locked in a battle for the final Western Conference playoff berth, Memphis and Phoenix will clash on Monday.

  • [New York Times] Curry Has 47, but Warriors Fall 119-117 to Blazers (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 04:24:34 GMT)
    LaMarcus Aldridge scored 26 points, including the go-ahead jumper in overtime, and the Portland Trail Blazers defeated the Warriors 119-117 despite a season-high 47 points from Golden State’s Stephen Curry.

  • [New York Times] McCallum, Cousins Rally Kings Past Timberwolves (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 03:51:23 GMT)
    Ray McCallum hit back-to-back 3-pointers in a pivotal stretch midway through the fourth quarter, DeMarcus Cousins had 35 points and 15 rebounds, and the Sacramento Kings beat the Minnesota Timberwolves 106-103 on Sunday night.

  • [New York Times] Grizzlies Beat Lakers to Stay in Playoff Hunt (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 03:51:22 GMT)
    Mike Conley scored 24 points and Memphis beat Los Angeles on Sunday night, moving the Grizzlies a game ahead of idle Phoenix in the race for the final Western Conference playoff berth.

  • [New York Times] Newly Eliminated Knicks Stop Bulls’ Streak at 7 (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 03:33:37 GMT)
    In nearly 800 NBA regular-games, Carmelo Anthony had never played in one like this.

  • [New York Times] Knicks 100, Bulls 89: Focus Is on Crystal Ball as Knicks Get Past Bulls (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 03:06:58 GMT)
    The futures of Coach Mike Woodson and his players will hang in the balance when an underachieving season ends.

  • [New York Times] Nets 97, Magic 88: With One Eye on Playoffs, Nets Use Late Flurry to Dispatch Magic (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 01:13:33 GMT)
    Coach Jason Kidd said he hoped to see the Nets “get better each time we take the floor” and to be healthy with these remaining games.

  • [New York Times] Nets Upend Magic 97-88 (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 01:12:24 GMT)
    Mirza Teletovic scored a team-high 20 points and Joe Johnson and Mason Plumlee each added 17 and the Brooklyn Nets beat the Orlando Magic 97-88 Sunday night.

  • [New York Daily News] No Bull: Amar’e says Knicks NBA’s best ‘on paper’ before win over Chicago (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 06:14:38 GMT)
    The season began with James Dolan telling Mike Woodson he believed the Knicks should contend for a championship. It will end this week with the team embarrassingly missing the playoffs for the first time in four years, and with big changes likely on the horizon under $60 million new team president Phil Jackson.

  • [New York Daily News] Lawrence: On future plans, Melo thinking Zen and where (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 05:01:51 GMT)
    Jim Dolan could barely contain himself when he heard that Josh Kroenke, the Denver Nuggets president, was ready to talk trade, specifically Carmelo Anthony, who had a burning desire to be a Knick.

  • [New York Post] Ailing Anthony sits fourth quarter (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 04:03:23 -0400)
    Carmelo Anthony, battling an aching right shoulder, was in the starting lineup Sunday for the Knicks against the Bulls — but on the bench in the fourth quarter. "Early it…

  • [New York Post] Anthony Bull-ish on Thibs (Mon, 14 Apr 2014 03:50:14 -0400)
    In a development that has to have the Knicks sweating, free-agent-to-be Carmelo Anthony inquired about Chicago's Tom Thibodeau Sunday afternoon, then gushed over him as a "great coach” whose system…

  • 115 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.04.14)

    1. Everyone is entitled 2 my Opinion

      Enjoy ‘Melo’s last couple of games as a Knick, I for one can’t see him returning. I mean why? ‘Melo will miss the playoffs for the 1st time in his career, in the weak East no less. Meaning this is the worst team he’s ever played for. He’s in his 10th or 11th year, meaning he only has another 5 or 6 years of top level ball at most. Knicks won’t be able to do anything next season, meaning “Melo would have to give away at least another 2 years before becoming a serious contender at best.

      Sure the Knicks can pay him more $$$’s, and if it’s all about the $$$’s only, he should stay. But an option could be a sign & trade between the Knicks & Rockets. Jeremy Lin (Linsanity) could return to NY along w/ Omar Asik & young Parson ($$’s work). Otherwise the Knick’s let ‘Melo go for nothing.

      Imagine ‘Melo, Harden, & Howard…sounds like a title to me. I’m betting it sounds like a title to ‘Melo & the Rockets also.

      Yeah, winning a title in NY is special, very special, you’re loved forever…ask Clyde Frazier. However, never win as a superstar in NY, and you’re seen as an underachiever…ask Ewing.

      Wishing you well ‘Melo

    2. lavor postell

      The Knicks aren’t trading melo. If Chicago can clear enough cap space to make a run they are the only viable option unless he is willing to not play in a major market which doesn’t seem like he does.

    3. Farfa

      I wonder: has Melo really not considered the possibility of opting in? I think that would give him AND the Knicks tremendous flexibility, come 2015. Follow my line of reasonment:

      1) whatever happens, next year will probably be a lost year for the Knicks on the floor (and let’s hope it’s so: if it’s not, that will mean we have somehow traded one or more of the Chandler-Bargs-Amar’e trio for contracts that will expire after 2015. Bleargh), so why not monetize that season anyway, treating it as a balls-out contract year?

      2) while playing on the aforementioned contract year, Melo could reasonably assess the freedom of action and the GM-savviness of Phil, so if the Phil hiring does not work he won’t be stuck in basketball hell for more seasons.

      3) agreeing to a pay cut in 2015 will have a much more significant effect on the FA market. What about Kevin Love and Marc Gasol? The East is big, man (jokes aside, is there a chance that LeBron would sign here this summer even if he opts out? don’t think so. What if LeBron stays put AFTER a disappointing Miami playoff campaign, which is bound to happen, and then agrees with Melo and Gasol – or Aldridge – to come here in 2015?).

      4) if the Knicks situation is awful by 2015, nobody would hold against him if he bolted the heck away to greener pastures. Not that anyone would do any different right now, but staying one more season at the present contract would give everyone involved maximum flexibility.

      So, barring injuries (which means: if that shoulder is really worrying him, then he definitely should opt out and seek a long contract now), why are we so sure that Melo is not opting in? I know he said he would test the FA waters in the summer, but if he’s not ready to go to Phoenix (and he’s not, by all accounts), then what the hell is he going to do with his free agent status this July?

    4. Nick C.

      I understand, but don’t understand the insistence on a major market. Lala seems to be a D level actress whose claim to fame is being a former VJ and marrying Carmelo. Being in NY hasn’t exactly set her career aflame. As for Carmelo I would have hoped for his sake he was at the point in his life where winning counted for more. But what do I know, maybe they are taking in the Met, Guggenheim, Zoos, Botanical Gardens, high end and/or eclectic restaurants, etc. that are not so readily available in smaller metropolitan areas.

    5. Farfa

      Chicago will get him only in a sign and trade. We all should now that Reinsdorf chap is cheap as a frog on a horse. So, I don’t think he’ll go there, since they seem to have no intention to amnesty Boozer. And who could the Knicks get by trading him? Their roster is full of overachieving guys, who have value only in a winning system. Jimmy Butler would be probably wasted here (and anyway the only position where we have a resemblance of future is SG-SF, soooo…), and I don’t want no part in taking Augustin or anyone else not named Noah; yes, not even Gibson, who’s devastating there but in the wrong system would just be an overpaid role player.

    6. JK47

      If Melo were to go to the Bulls in a sign and trade, the one asset I would demand from them would be Mirotic. The Knicks could do the Bulls a huge favor by taking on the last year of Carlos Boozer’s contract, and compensation in the form of Mirotic and a first-rounder seems like a fair price.

      The Knicks would have the Chandler, Stoudemire, Bargnani and Boozer contracts coming off the books after 2015, plus they’d have Mirotic, their own 2015 first-rounder and another first-rounder from the Bulls. Not a bad way to start a rebuild.

    7. er

      @5 where does everyone get that he has to play in a major market? And as someone else said before, as a young guy location matters if you can choose.

    8. lavor postell

      If we’re trading melo to the bulls it’s going to take a hell of a lot more than mirotic (who wed have to sign with our cap space in 2015) and a bulls first rounder which at best will be in the late teens. I’d rather let melo walk than trade him to the fucking bulls for nothing of consequence.

    9. Nick C.

      I guess there never has been a direct quote just an assumption. Maybe there were quotes or something from the time that he left Denver. But typically when one “wants” to play for only one team, which I think was more of less the case when he left Denver, it leads one to that assumption. Has he ever said he wants to go to the place that offers him the best opportunity to win regardless of where that is?

    10. er

      Right Lavor, I am always skeptical of these Euros. They all come in way over hyped. Teletovic was supposed to be a beast.

    11. JK47

      I’d rather let melo walk than trade him to the fucking bulls for nothing of consequence.

      You’d rather get nothing than something? That seems like a rather hard-headed way to think of it. It’s not like the Knicks have a ton of leverage if Melo decides he’s walking. Acquiring a guy in his early 20′s who is clearly the best player in Europe plus a first rounder or two is not a bad return for renting out our cap space to the Bulls so they can stash Carlos Boozer’s contract for a year. It is not going to be possible to get equal value for Melo in a sign-and-trade, but that doesn’t mean it’s better to just get nothing at all in return.

      The Bulls do have another decent asset: a first-round pick from Charlotte, protected 1-10 in 2014, 1-8 in 2015 and unprotected in 2016.

    12. Frank O.

      Dear Phil:

      You have two highly tradeable assets: Melo and Tyson.

      Move them both and amass as many draft picks as possible.
      This is a good draft; go after picks.

      The Knicks have far too many needs.

    13. GoNyGoNYGo

      First of all, I’m glad we finally have a basketball mind in the organization. Phil Jackson won’t make stupid any of the trades we’ve come to expect from Knick management. That being said, I believe Melo will be back. Maybe it’s delusional, but he stands to lose a lot money. “Anthony has said his first priority is to re-sign with the Knicks, who can offer him a max contract for one year longer and $33 million more than any other team. But Anthony has also said he’d be willing to take less money from the Knicks or another team if it meant helping them attract other free agents.” See ESPN.

      I know that my agreeing with Stoudemire when he said On paper, Knicks may be NBA’s best is also delusional, but I think they are close.

      So, what would I do if Melo re-upped and I was in charge? First, there’s a bunch of it ain’t gonna happen things like trading Bargnani so let’s be reasonable.

      1) Trade Shumpert or Hardaway for a point guard that can drive the lane and also defend quick PGs.
      2) Hire a real coach, one who won’t take crap from JR.
      3) Try and get a 2014 draft pick – somehow.
      4) Move Bargnani to the backup center role and teach him defense.
      5) Play the starting 5 that ended the year as starters.
      6) Find someone that can replace K-Mart as an enforcer/elder statesman. He’s done.

      That’s where I start.

    14. GoNyGoNYGo

      @Frank O. – Melo is only a trade asset in a sign and trade. I wouldn’t trade either.

    15. JK47

      4) Move Bargnani to the backup center role and teach him defense.

      Here’s a better idea: Move Bargnani to the “never plays” role and teach him how to clap when a teammate makes a basket.

    16. lavor postell

      You’d rather get nothing than something? That seems like a rather hard-headed way to think of it. It’s not like the Knicks have a ton of leverage if Melo decides he’s walking. Acquiring a guy in his early 20?s who is clearly the best player in Europe plus a first rounder or two is not a bad return for renting out our cap space to the Bulls so they can stash Carlos Boozer’s contract for a year. It is not going to be possible to get equal value for Melo in a sign-and-trade, but that doesn’t mean it’s better to just get nothing at all in return.

      The Bulls do have another decent asset: a first-round pick from Charlotte, protected 1-10 in 2014, 1-8 in 2015 and unprotected in 2016.

      Melo doesn’t really have a ton of leverage to get to Chicago unless they amnesty Boozer which isn’t going to happen since there is a snowball’s chance in hell Reinsdorf will pay a guy $15m to play for another team. Even then they’d need to move Gibson at the minimum to get in the ball park of a $15m contract for Melo. If he wants to go to Chicago and they want him that’s cool, but the Knicks don’t have to play ball unless Chicago is willing to give up something of value more than Boozer’s corpse, rights to Mirotic (can only come in 2015 when the Knicks can pay him) and a couple of late first rounders.

      I’m fine with trading Melo, but the reality is you’re only trading him to a team that can’t acquire him in free agency because they don’t have cap space to accomplish it. That gives the Knicks leverage in any trade talks and should net us more than an unknown Euro prospect (albeit a highly touted one) and some mid 20′s first rounder. For example Houston could probably give us more with Lin, Asik Parson and a first rounder and would also immediately make Chandler expendable as well, netting us more assets.

    17. lavor postell

      Also I don’t want to send him to Chicago because if Rose ever gets healthy they could be a powerhouse. It’s been bad enough watching Noah blossom into a top-3 center in the NBA, but trading them Melo to complete the puzzle for them to compete for championships is something I want no part of it unless we get real value out of it.

    18. Owen

      A Melo to Houston deal that netted us any combo of Lin, parsons, and Asik would be amazing. It would also challenge every belief I have in advanced basketball metrics and the sanity of Daryl Morey.

      It’s a nice best case to dream about but you don’t see a lot of 3-1 deals for aging veterans anymore.

    19. er

      I think that would be a nice trade for both sides. Houston not only gets Melo, but they get two roster spots to add more Pat Beverly type of glue guys to go with Harden and Melo. Knicks get young talent. Win Win.

    20. Everyone is entitled 2 my Opinion

      NOTE: ‘Melo would actually make more $$$’s in a sign & trade to Houston then if he stayed with the Knicks…because Texas has no state tax. Glad to see 17, 20, 21, & I (1) are of a similar mindset.

    21. er

      bobneptune, thats the hard part. NYK have never been a destination up until stat and melo came. So we will see.

      I also doubt that Houston would give up Jones AND Parsons

    22. JK47

      Sure, that Houston trade looks great, but is somebody really going to give us FOUR quality NBA rotation players for Carmelo Anthony? This seems like some extremely wishful thinking.

    23. Cock Jowles Has Predicted the Last Three Knicks Seasons

      I really can’t believe y’all think Morey would give up Lin, Parsons and/or Asik for Carmelo “I Shoot the Ball” Anthony. Unreal!

      IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

    24. lavor postell

      Yeah that’s a great deal for the Knicks as long as they re-sign Parsons at a decent rate. Jones is a really nice young player. You make that trade and then trade Chandler and Felton for some shitty expiring (read: Kendrick Perkins) and a late first rounder and this summer would be a massive success. I think heading into the summer of 2015 with a core of Shump, Parsons, Jones, Aldrich, THJ, maybe a reasonably re-signed Lin and Asik with a couple of 2015 first rounders could be a solid core to sell.

      Ultimately I don’t see this happening though, because it would require the Knicks to do Melo a favor in trading him to a team who has no ability to sign him outright in free agency. I also think Phil rates Melo a lot higher than people may realize and sees him as a player that would flourish in the triangle and can be a cornerstone of the franchise. I can see Phil offering the full mini MLE and making a big push for Shaun Livingston.

    25. swiftandabundant

      I have to admit. The idea of trading Melo to Houston for young players and picks…seems really enticing. We’d still have STAT, Chandler, Bargs coming off the books or could trade Chandler for more picks/players on draft night. Also being able to hold on to Shump and Hardaway is very enticing. Think we could convince Houston to take Felton while they’re at it?

      I guess a lot of it depends on how it works out with Houston these playoffs. But that trade seems amazing. Gets us young players and picks, brings Linsanity back to the Garden for a season. I like it.

    26. lavor postell

      Parsons has a year left on his deal before he’ll need to be extended assuming the Rockets use the team option on him this summer. They may opt to let him become a restricted free agent giving them the ability to match any offer a team may give him as they are limited by their lack of cap space in what they can offer when he is an unrestricted free agent in 2015 (if they use the team option for next year). Lin and Asik are expiring and will be getting paid $15m a piece even though they only count $8.3m against the cap. If they can get Melo to sign a 5yr, 90-100m contract that’s a pretty sweet deal.

      f you can flip three expiring contracts, especially Lin, who they probably won’t re-sign and Asik, who will definitely not re-sign, for Carmelo Anthony you make that trade every single time. It basically then boils down to Parsons and Jones for Anthony from their perspective which is a no-brainer if their goal is to win a ring ASAP.

    27. dtrickey

      Some interesting thoughts floating around. Gotta love off-season as a Knicks supporter. I’ve almost all but given up on predicting what goes on with this organisation, because I’m usually wrong. This year I’ll sit back and enjoy the back and forth speculation on the board. Keep the wild theories coming boys and girls!

      Interesting seeing reports that Odom is a serious chance to be on the roster for the last few games. Not hugely wild on him now, but if I am reading things correct they’re basically signing him for the rest of this season with a potential team option to basically trial him over summer. Could be interesting to see if can rehabilitate himself to a competitive Lakers Championship era Lamar. I’m not holding my breath though.

    28. Brian Cronin

      I have no problem with the Odom signing. It can’t hurt to see if he has anything left. Hell, the Knicks should sign someone else like that, as well. Going further, it’d almost be general manager malpractice to not try to use the Knicks’ two open roster spots to sign guys to non-guaranteed contracts for next year. Those contracts can be traded to a team that needs cap space. The Knicks could actually get a decent player through just simply signing a player to a non-guaranteed deal. The player gets a little bit of cash and the Knicks get a trade asset. Dan Gadzuric, come on down!

    29. Brian Cronin

      As for the rest of the Knick offseason, the only mystery is how much money Melo signs for. Let’s hope it is for under $20 million a year!

    30. KnickfaninNJ

      I read a great description of the Chicago Cubs history in the NY Times that could just as easily have been written about the Knicks.

      “The Cubs’ problems are mundanely human rather than supernatural. For the most part, bad teams have been preserved with a bad farm system carefully neglected by bad management. On occasion, terrific players nevertheless find their way into the lineup, requiring elimination with bad trades.”

    31. Frank

      Overall I think it’s very likely that Melo re-signs, and at a discount to what we could pay him, but more than what other teams could in a pure FA signing. Other teams can offer 4/96, we can offer as much as 5/129. I think it’ll come out to something like 5/105 or 5/110 which is a “not the end of the world” kind of contract I could live with.

      My guess also is that Phil thinks he can rehabilitate Odom. For those who don’t think system and coaching matters, Lamar’s last season with Phil (2010-11) he averaged (per 36 ) 16/9.7/3.4 and a WS/48 of 0.184 as one of the linchpins of the triangle. The very next season, his game fell off the map. I’m sure lots of this had to do with his TV show (which started at the end of the 10-11 season) and his reported drug use, but he’d been living in LA and involved with the Kardashians for years prior to that (under Phil’s wing) and had been fine. Phil would have 2.5 months to see what he has in Lamar – where he is mentally/physically. If he can even be 75% of the player he was in 2010-11, that would be amazing. Then my guess is he will try to jedi-mind-trick Gasol into taking the mini-MLE, which is basically zero risk medium reward. If he can do that, then you trade Tyson for whatever you can get since he’s not a triangle-type and isn’t in the plans past 14-15 anyway. Then you hire Kerr and fully commit to the Triangle.

      Then our starting lineup for the “grind” year would be Shump, JR, Melo, Amare, Gasol. On the bench you’d have Odom, THJ, Felton, Pablo, Tyler, Murry. My guess is we re-sign Shannon Brown, and I wouldn’t be shocked if MWP comes back as another Triangle guy. Buy a 2nd round pick, be active in the UDFA market to fill up the rest of the roster. Oh right, forgot about Bargnani. That guy too.

      With a real coach and no CAA influence, that’s probably a borderline playoff team before the big push in 2015. All without giving up much in the way of flexibility (depending on Tyson trade).

    32. johnno

      I checked out your proposed trade on the Trade Machine. Congratulations. You have accomplished the near impossible — you have come up with a deal that, according to the Trade Machine, makes the Knicks 8 games worse than they already are, yet has people on this board calling it a heist for the Knicks. You are talking about 4 role players on a 54 win team (which is precisely what the Knicks were last year) that just happens to have two guys named Harden and Howard on it. Since those two guys are exponentially better than anyone not named Carmelo Anthony on the Knicks’ roster (hell, according to a lot of people on this site, they are exponentially better than Melo, too), it is difficult for me to see how the “Core Four” that the Knicks would acquire in your deal makes them anything better than a 40-42 win team next year — which means that they would probably squeak into the playoffs, get swept in the first round, and end up with the #20 pick in the draft instead of a lottery pick. They would then face having to decide whether to overpay Parsons, Asik and Lin — using up precious cap room in the process — or let them go and end up with a net haul of Jones and a much worse draft pick than they otherwise would have had for Carmelo Anthony. (By the way, Asik is only two years younger than Melo.) In my opinion, it’s not a good deal for the Knicks. However, if Melo comes to the Knicks and tells them that he absolutely won’t re-sign with them, I wouldn’t be upset if they traded him to the Rockets for Parsons, Jones and a boatload of draft picks.

    33. lavor postell

      @johnno

      Great post. Additionally Melo can’t really overplay his hand which is the stupidest thing about him entering free agency this season. If he is set on playing in a big market or with other stars the only one that will be able to sign him outright is the Lakers. Chicago even if they renounced rights to all their free agents, amnestied Boozer (Reinsdorf hahaha) and sold their 2 first rounders they’d have $47.5m on their cap sheet.

      So even assuming the cap is $62m next season, they would need to dump Dunleavy with no salary coming back to offer an $18m contract and if they wanted to get to real max territory, they’d need to dump Gibson with no salary coming back. So basically to sign Melo (not trade) they’d have to pay Boozer $16.8m to play for somebody else, give away two first rounders for nothing, renounce rights to Hinrich and Augustin and put all their eggs in the D-Rose basket and then dump Dunleavy, but more likely Gibson for nothing except maybe a future first rounder. I call bullshit on that one.

      Houston would need to find takers for both Lin and Asik who count for $8.3m on the cap, but will be getting paid $15m and not take on any salary in a trade back. That would put them roughly $16m under the cap, again assuming it’s set at $62m. They’d still need to dump some more salary to start making realistic offers to Melo.

      All of these teams can only offer 4 year, whereas the Knicks can give him a 5th year which, since this will be his last major contract, is a big deal. I could see him potentially moving to the Bulls if all of those things break their way, but the Knicks will either sign him or lose him for nothing. I don’t think they’re going to play a sign-and-trade game with anybody.

    34. lavor postell

      Lamar Odom pre-Triangle (5 seasons, 310 games):
      TS% 51.9, eFG% 47.1, WS/48 .089

      Lamar Odom Triangle (7 seasons, 519 games):
      TS% 55.8, eFG% 52.4, WS/48 .140

      This also gives me some hope for JR.

    35. Frank

      Yeah I don’t think that Houston trade is a good one for the Knicks. Picking up guys just as they are about to become free agents seems like a bad way to go. I’d honestly rather let Melo leave as a FA than take that trade, because at least then we’d bottom out and get a good pick in 2015 as opposed to having a 42 win team with Lin/Asik etc. Parsons is a very good player but really only in the context of him being paid on a 2nd round pick contract. He’s a nice player with an above average WS/48 (0.13) who will end up getting paid $10-12MM/year, at which point he’s just another guy. You need players who either are underpaid on a long term contract (like Kyle Lowry was a couple years back) or guys with multiple years left on their rookie contract. Or draft picks. The only way you take on guys who are about to become FAs is if you can dump long-term $ on them ie. Felton and/or JR (although my feeling is that the JR we saw in the 2nd half of the year is the real JR and the pre-ASB JR was the recovering-from-surgery JR, so I think he’s probably a keeper given what his trade value is).

    36. KnickfaninNJ

      I’m not part of the board that likes the proposed Houston trade. The problem for the Knicks is not that Carmelo isn’t good enough, it’s that you need two stars, not one, to really contend in the NBA. Trading away our one star for role players will make us worse, not better. If I had to propose a trade, it would be with Boston; Bargnani and Shumpert for Rondo. It works per the trade machine. I would rather trade Bargnani for Shumpert straight up (it also works per the trade machine), but I don’t think Boston will accept that, so we could ask for that and then agree to add Shumpert.

    37. lavor postell

      No way the Celtics are taking Shumpert and Bargnani for Rondo when the Kings were offering up 2 first round picks unprotected. I also don’t particularly want Rondo who I don’t feel is a good fit next to Melo. Interesting thing with Rondo is that he really controls his own future, because no team is trading for him without a guarantee that he will extend with them and if he doesn’t the Celtics will just have to play out the final year of Rondo’s deal and see what happens in free agency.

    38. DRed

      Role players? Stars? Holy shit, did none of you watch the Knicks this season? We’re going to end up around 17 games worse than we were last season and all we lost last summer were a bunch of role players.

      To put things more objectively, we’d be swapping Melo and his .171 WS/48 for Parsons (.132), Lin (.103), Jones (.168) and Asik (.122). That doesn’t make us 8 games worse, that makes us better. We could also easily afford to move Tyson without getting worse, and could replace Ray fucking Felton with someone who isn’t awful at basketball. That’s a good deal.

    39. lavor postell

      The best thing about that trade is that you can move Chandler for a pick and an expiring after that and maybe even package Felton with him. Again for various reasons I don’t think it’s ever going to happen because the Knicks aren’t going to engage in sign-and-trade scenarios for Melo.

    40. DRed

      I don’t think it’s likely either. But thinking about it is more interesting than watching the Knicks

    41. KnickfaninNJ

      DRed, I watched them way too much this season considering the quality of basketball that they played. They played bad team basketball and defended horribly. I am not convinced Asik is an upgrade over Chandler, and he might not beat him to be the starter so we’d have an unhappy player in Asik. We desperately need a quality point guard, but all we get out of the trade is Lin, who at 0.103 WS is basically the definition of average and was beaten out to be a starter in Houston by a not very heralded Beverly. And I am not convinced that the Houston players win shares will hold up. Look how Novak and Copeland are doing in new environments where there is tougher competition for minutes.

      Lavor, you make a good point about Boston not accepting two first rounders, but you also say that basically Rondo’s future is in his hands, not Boston’s so maybe Boston will reconsider. Also, Boston has a lot of picks already, maybe an experienced body would be more appealing to them. I’m not sure if Rondo is a good fit next to Melo; but at least he’s not a score first point guard like Lin. From press reports apparently Melo hated playing next to Lin.

    42. stratomatic

      1. Odom had nothing left 2 years ago – which was before he supposedly had the crack problem. If he’s signed it’s to be used as cap filler in a trade.

      2. I like Lin, but he’s a D’Antoni PG not a triangle PG.

      3. Trading Melo is a very good idea. If you can get back Asik+, that frees up Chandler for a trade also.

    43. DRed

      We don’t even know if we’ll be running the triangle. And whatever the system, Lin is much better than Ray Felton.

    44. DRed

      And Novak and Cope are doing just fine. They just don’t get many minutes. Players generally don’t change much year to year. Those 4 guys are good players, and they’re likely to play well for the Knicks.

    45. Frank

      Those 4 guys are good players, and they’re likely to play well for the Knicks.

      The problem isn’t that they’re not good players, it’s that 3 out of the 4 players expire after 2014-15. Are we really prepared to trade Melo for a deal that is essentially 3 expiring contracts + Terrence Jones that would result in a worse 2015 draft pick? And isn’t Parsons up for a deal this year i.e. after 13-14?

      And I worry, like KnickfaninNJ, that this team literally will have no chance for contention if its best player is Chandler Parsons. Because that’s what you’re asking for. Remember also that a team anchored by Asik, Lin, Parsons AND James Harden was a 1st round out in the playoffs.

      If you want Asik and Lin to stick around after next season, it’ll take somewhere near $15-20MM in our 2015 space just for them. Parsons will be another 10-12MM. Say $30MM for those 3, plus Shump + JR + Felton + THJ + Terrence Jones + Pablo +2015 draft pick. Maybe we will have room for 1 max contract. This is not a recipe for success.

    46. johnno

      “Remember also that a team anchored by Asik, Lin, Parsons AND James Harden was a 1st round out in the playoffs.”
      But that can’t possibly be! I added up their win shares and, according to my calculation, it was the Rockets, and not the Heat, who were champions last year!

    47. Nick C.

      Yeah but a 1st round out in the Western Conference = shot at ECF or at least into second round. It isn’t as if they lost to an Atlanta, Charlotte, Toronto etc. (of course that means that Paul, Melo with Denver and Garnett with Minnesota are not as weak in the post season as they are made out to be).

    48. lavor postell

      Getting pounded by a Westbrook-less OKC in 5 games does not translate to getting to the ECF. Asik, Lin, Parson, Jones, Shump, THJ, Pablo, JR and Aldrich aren’t getting to the ECF. That team will be a success just getting into the playoffs.

    49. DRed

      But that can’t possibly be! I added up their win shares and, according to my calculation, it was the Rockets, and not the Heat, who were champions last year!But that can’t possibly be! I added up their win shares and, according to my calculation, it was the Rockets, and not the Heat, who were champions last year!

      . . . said nobody.

    50. Nick C.

      Getting pounded by a Westbrook-less OKC in 5 games does not translate to getting to the ECF. Asik, Lin, Parson, Jones, Shump, THJ, Pablo, JR and Aldrich aren’t getting to the ECF. That team will be a success just getting into the playoffs.

      The point was the west ain’t the east so one shouldn’t be so dismissive about “lost in the first round” especially since the marquee matchups from last year in the east could have been the husks of the Celtics, the Roseless Bulls let by Nate Robinson pre-evolution of Noah into a triple double machine, NJ and two other other teams that got thrown to the Heat and Pacers. At any rate this is all arguing over imaginary trade scenarios posted by people with imaginary names. It sucks that this is typically what being a Knick fan devolves to.

    51. Frank

      Exaggeration by johnno aside, there’s just no way that Houston/NYK trade is even close to a good idea.

      What we almost certainly will do this summer is try to sign Melo at a small discount, sign some low-risk spare parts (ie. Lamar Odom) without any significant long term commitments, then trust that a new system/coach will make enough of a difference to get into the playoffs. I think that’s entirely reasonable. Then in year 2 of “reload”, we sign all the guys to make the big push.

      Honestly, even if we just run the same team out there except that we run the triangle instead of whatever Woodson’s system is/was, we’ll probably be much better — reason being that Felton will not play much and our defense will be significantly improved with Shump guarding 1′s and 2′s as opposed to 3′s.

    52. johnno

      This trade debate is essentially the same debate that we had over Tiago Splitter a couple months ago. Like Splitter, the four Rockets are nice players who I would like to have on my team on affordable contracts but, like Splitter, they are supporting players, not lead actors.

    53. DRed

      They’re good players. Getting more good players is good. It really is pretty simple. I don’t understand how you can thinking trading 3 draft picks for a horrible basketball player is a good move, but trading a very good player for four average-very good players is a terrible idea because according to your entirely subjective value system they are just supporting players.

    54. bobneptune

      Fellas,

      I think ya’ll misunderstood the gist of my proposed trade.

      First of all, if Zen boy feels he can get through to Melo and get him to commit 100% (like getting in real shape) he has the requisite skill set to be a super triangle player. He CAN do virtually everything well on a basketball court when he feels like it.

      I was presupposing Melo doesn’t want to waste another season in crap heaven and wants to hit the Hiliary “reset” button. If that is the case, then it would be malpractice to allow an asset you payed sooooo dearly for go for nothing in return. Now, there are very few options for him as a free agent and none who can pay him nearly as much as if he is signed and traded. Hence I’m looking for possible trade partners where they might think Melo is the last piece to put them over the top.

      As for as Johnnoo’s comments, the idea would be to get some young, efficient rotation players , in essence , for nothing (as in Melo leaving for no compensation to the Knicks). The idea would be to lose as many games as possible next season when we actually own our own pick. I wouldn’t be averse to just cutting Asik /Lin. Trade Chandler for similar types/picks.

      The idea isn’t to try to squeak into the 7th seed in a shitty conference, but rather to collect, young, efficient, relatively cheap players that are rotation players, but not alpha dogs. Allow Jackson to use his cachet to attract the alpha dog types in 2015′s summer.

      But, yes Johnno… I like losing if there is a purpose and plan behind it. Christ…. we’ve been doing it for nearly 2 decades and are in arguably a worse position today than at any other time.

    55. er

      @ 59

      your entirely subjective value system they are just supporting players.

      In which value system are any of these guys anything more than supporting players? Please do tell.

    56. DRed

      In which value system are any of these guys anything more than supporting players? Please do tellIn which value system are any of these guys anything more than supporting players? Please do tell

      How are we defining supporting player? Is it impossible for four supporting players to be more valuable than a lead actor (whatever that is)?

    57. DRed

      Again, all we lost last summer was a bunch of supporting players. And yet this year we suck. How could that be if supporting players can’t have a significant impact on team performance?

      (Granted, Jason Kidd was a lot more valuable than some of you realize)

    58. Alecto

      People forget that Rudy Gay was a “lead actor” on the Raptors and almost everyone on the team was a better player than him. Being a lead actor just means that the coaches put you in a position to act as such, deserving or no. I’d take a lot of “supporting players” over a lot of “lead actors”. If by “lead actor” you mean an objectively good player like LeBron, KD, or Joakim Noah then you’re missing the whole point of that Melo trade (which I think is a pipe dream, but a pretty nice one).

    59. er

      Rudy Gay was never the best player on his team since high school. That being said, every star needs good supporting players. My point is that none of those guys can be your more than the third best player on a championship team. Star players can be the second or first best player on a championship team.

    60. johnno

      “objectively good player like LeBron, KD, or Joakim Noah”
      Do you think that Dwight Howard and James Harden are objectively good players? If so, and if the four guys we’re discussing are really good players, shouldn’t the Rockets be a juggernaut?
      By the way, I admit that I supported the Bargnani trade and that I was wrong, but please stop calling it 3 draft picks for Bargnani, as if all draft picks have the same value. The two second round picks are virtually guaranteed to be in the bottom 5 of the second round, which means that the player that you would get with them is no better than the guy you can sign literally 15 minutes later as an undrafted free agent. Those picks are pretty much worthless. The Knicks also dumped Novak’s $4 million+ salary in 2015, which has creates cap space that has potential real value.

    61. mokers

      Asik, Lin and Parsons are only under contract through 2015. What is the plan after next season? If you aren’t planning on keeping any of those three anyway, I think it is better to get nothing for Melo, have a terrible team and grab a better draft pick. Use Melo and Chandler to bring back more picks.

    62. DRed

      Terrence Jones is a really productive young player. Asik, Parson and Lin could be traded mid-year. Letting Melo walk for nothing and going high order tank mode isn’t the worst plan, but I’d rather get something than nothing. The lottery is fairly risky.

    63. DRed

      Do you think that Dwight Howard and James Harden are objectively good players? If so, and if the four guys we’re discussing are really good players, shouldn’t the Rockets be a juggernautDo you think that Dwight Howard and James Harden are objectively good players? If so, and if the four guys we’re discussing are really good players, shouldn’t the Rockets be a juggernaut

      The Rockets are a pretty damn good team. Lin is more or less league average, which means he’s a lot better than Ray Felton, who is awful. Asik is a very good player who never played because Howard is even better than he is and because he spent a lot of the season sulking.

    64. stratomatic

      The Knicks aren’t going to win a championship with Melo as the #1 player with or without Phil Jackson and his triangle. If you can’t see that by now, you never will. He had the best year of his career this year but we still sucked. Even when the team finally got healthy we were only playing marginal playoff basketball (which was predictable).

      This is our one opportunity to move on from that mistake and rebuild a team that “might” eventually have a chance. If we blow it, we’ll continue having the same conversations for the next 5 years that we’ve had endlessly since the trade for him was first discussed. His defenders will blame everyone and everything other than Melo for our failures and when we are playing well they’ll give him all the credit because he scores the most points. But we’ll end up in the place – marginal playoff team.

      Melo is an extremely talented player. But he’s only an average defender at best and a low IQ player on offense. You aren’t going to win a championship with that kind of player making the max (or close) anchoring your offense and being a liability on defense. It just doesn’t work that way. You need high efficiency high IQ players on offense and solid role players on defense, on the boards etc…. It’s time to move on.

    65. johnno

      “Asik, Parson and Lin could be traded mid-year”
      Why are you so sure that Asik and Lin will be tradeable? The Rockets supposedly tried hard to dump them both this year and got no real takers. They are each making $15 million next year. What team is going to give up any kind of asset for the privilege of paying either of them that kind of money, even for half a year? (Which I guess kind of begs the question, why do so many of us, including me, think that teams will be lining up to pay Chandler similar money next year?)

    66. er

      His defenders will blame everyone and everything other than Melo for our failures and when we are playing well they’ll give him all the credit because he scores the most points. But we’ll end up in the place – marginal playoff team.

      Melo is an extremely talented player. But he’s only an average defender at best and a low IQ player on offense. You aren’t going to win a championship with that kind of player making the max (or close) anchoring your offense and being a liability on defense. It just doesn’t work that way. You need high efficiency high IQ players on offense and solid role players on defense, on the boards etc…. It’s time to move on.

      Melo is not low iq. Id say hes a little above avg. The rest of your points are quite contridictory. you say ” You need high efficiency high IQ players on offense and solid role players on defense, on the boards etc…. ” Then you expect this Knick team to win? HUH? how does that work. Melo was on last years team too. and the difference was the play of the role players. What did Kobe do with a sorry team? What about Michael Jordan? NO ONE wins with bad role players. Thats the key. The hardest part is getting the star.

    67. lavor postell

      Wasn’t Pierce a low IQ at best average defensive player? That narrative changed once he got to play with HOF quality teammates.

    68. DRed

      Why are you so sure that Asik and Lin will be tradeable?Why are you so sure that Asik and Lin will be tradeable?

      I’m not. But playoff bound teams might be willing to rent one or both of them for half a year.

      You still haven’t told me how I can identify which players are supporting characters and which ones are lead actors.

    69. ephus

      When thinking about Carmelo’s next contract, it is important to remember that the salary cap is going to take a major jump in 2016-17, when the next media deal comes on line. I’ve seen estimates that the NBA will increase its haul by $900 million/year. Holding everything else equal (and other revenues should increase), that would increase the salary cap by roughly $15 million/year.

    70. johnno

      “You still haven’t told me how I can identify which players are supporting characters and which ones are lead actors.”
      I would say “the eye test,” but I’m afraid that your head might explode if I did…

    71. Brian Cronin

      I checked out your proposed trade on the Trade Machine. Congratulations. You have accomplished the near impossible — you have come up with a deal that, according to the Trade Machine, makes the Knicks 8 games worse than they already are, yet has people on this board calling it a heist for the Knicks.

      Huh? No, it doesn’t. It says that the ROCKETS are 8 wins worse with the trade.

      It does say that the Knicks get worse, too, by four games, but it clearly notes that it thinks that the Knicks come out better in the trade than the Rockets

      I love that we just had a long drawn out argument based on a misreading of what the trade machine said.

    72. DRed

      They eye test says Carmelo is a lead actor. The players Houston would be giving up are just supporting characters. Although Carmelo failed to win many games this year, the fault for that lies in his supporting cast, even though those players cannot be very valuable. Therefore, logically, the trade machine must be wrong. After all, it’s a machine. It doesn’t even have eyes.

    73. er

      They eye test says Carmelo is a lead actor. The players Houston would be giving up are just supporting characters. Although Carmelo failed to win many games this year, the fault for that lies in his supporting cast, even though those players cannot be very valuable. Therefore, logically, the trade machine must be wrong. After all, it’s a machine. It doesn’t even have eyes.

      I think the reason that it said the Knicks would be worse of is a testament to melo. The Fact that the Rockets would be sheer numbers. You are replacing 3.5 rotation players with 1. If you replace the 3 role players with decent picks on the rockets, then they would fair the same if not better.

    74. maxwell_3g

      it is sooo great that the Knicks are peaking right now! Just in time for the playoffs!!!!!!! i’m sooooo pumped!!

    75. Brian Cronin

      How ridiculous is it that they didn’t let Melo know that he had a freakin’ tear in his labrum?!

    76. swiftandabundant

      Hold on. I think its fine to argue that the proposed Houston trade would make us worse or wouldn’t be a great trade, but to use the Trade Machine as proof that it wouldn’t work is completely stupid.

      Its a fun toy ESPN has for NBA fans. I’m not saying its entirely inaccurate or useless, but it can’t account for how a player responds to a different coach, more minutes, a new environment, how well he plays with new teammates. Or his growth as a player. For all we know sending Lin back to The Garden could bring out Linsanity again. Or he could be worse than he is this year. Same with any of the other players. How would they work under say Steve Kerr? In the Triangle? With JR and Chandler as teammates? And as others have pointed out, getting Asik allows us to trade Chandler for more draft picks. Making this proposed trade wouldn’t be about next year anyways, it would be about acquiring assets. I understand the desire to get lottery picks. But that doesn’t mean getting an all star. For all we know the Knicks could get a better player with a low first round pick than a lottery pick. After all we passed on Rondo, Noah, etc…for lesser players.

      And sure, some of those proposed Houston players are expiring. But thats a good thing. It means we can either resign them or use them as trade bait? I understand wanting to resign Melo over trading him. I want to keep him too if possible (for the right price). But to say that we should let him go for nothing because the trade machine says it makes us worse is a pretty bad argument.

    77. lavor postell

      Would be really nice if STAT can stay healthy for the full season next year. Probably asking way too much, but his resurgence this season has been really nice to see.

    78. er

      How ridiculous is it that they didn’t let Melo know that he had a freakin’ tear in his labrum?!

      Kind of weird that he tore both.

    79. Brian Cronin

      This year or last year?

      Ha!

      Kind of weird that he tore both.

      Very weird.

      But seriously, you know the guy might be injured and you don’t let him check to see how bad?! What the heck?

    80. ephus

      Let’s be accurate.

      Carmelo Anthony refused to seek medical attention until the Knicks were eliminated. He did not want to get the diagnosis that would make him sit.

      Brave or foolish is in the eye of the beholder.

    81. maxwell_3g

      the woodson stupid confused face has officially been replaced by wooson stupid grinning face for these last couple of games. i cant stand this man

    82. lavor postell

      Aldrich is definitely worth keeping. I like that Phil Jackson was able to identify a hidden gem sitting in his beach house in Malibu watching games on TV and Woodson refused to play this guy when our frontcourt was depleted early on in the season.

    83. maxwell_3g

      im throwing a challenge flag on the official scorekeeper who has determined that country cole only has one block so far. i remember at least 3

    84. lavor postell

      Aldrich with 10 points and 10 rebounds in 21 minutes, but Bargnani was a big piece of the puzzle and we could have used Odom according to Woodson. I feel bad because he generally seems like a good guy, but as a coach and talent evaluator he is really terrible. He should definitely grab that Indiana job if it’s offered to him though. I think he’d be a great fit as a college coach.

    85. thenoblefacehumper

      It really makes you wonder what Aldrich would’ve had to do to get more minutes. He impressed in both his garbage time stints and every time he got extended minutes. Say what you will about MDA but if Woodson was our coach from the beginning of the 2011-2012 season Jeremy Lin would be overseas somewhere. I’m afraid Aldrich is going to be too pissed off to re-sign here, and he’d have every right to be. He was effective every time he was called upon yet was constantly benched in favor of retreads like Bargs and even Earl Clark.

    86. BigBlueAL

      The biggest collapse was the home loss to the Cavs. That game cost them the playoffs (granted all the other stupid losses did too).

    87. max fisher-cohen

      Terrence Jones has the 4th highest WS/48 of players under 23. He looks like budding star. If you’re going to use the term “lead actor” as a code word for “volume scorer”, then I guess he won’t ever be that, but IMHO that’s bullshit just like using “role player” as a code word for “guy who scores less than like 16 PPG” is bullshit. It’s a way of controlling the conversation — you obfuscate your meaning so you don’t ever really dig into the details. Talent is talent, and the only other thing that matters besides having as much talent as possible is having talent that doesn’t duplicate itself.

      The great thing about players like Terrence Jones, who may not be *great* at any one thing but is very good at a lot of things, is that for a team looking to have a lot of cap space, Jones can complement most players. With Anthony, that’s not the case.

      On offense, teams need two things: guys who can draw the defense, and guys who can take advantage of the drawn defense. It’s a symbiotic relationship. Yet, the language basketball analysts use all suggests that instead it goes one way. Scorers are called “creators” when really they’re only doing part of the job. If we’re movers, and I pack the boxes while you load them into the truck, I am no more the mover than you are.

      There are two things that screw people up IMO:

      The first is that instinctively we watch the ball, and the guys who have the ball the most are generally the big scorers.

      The second is that due to the CBA, it’s far more beneficial to stack your talent in as few players as possible. The result is you have guys like Shaq or Tim Duncan winning titles. These guys *do* dominate the ball, but that scoring ability is just one part of their contributions. But because of our tendency to just watch the ball, we focus on that one aspect of their games, and we conclude that big scorers are more important.

    88. JK47

      Cole Train’s TS% now sitting at a cool .613 for the season. Letting potentially productive players rot on the end of the bench is a big part of what we do here.

    89. DRed

      How could Cole be good? OKC never played him. Do you know more about basketball than NBA coaches?

    90. thenoblefacehumper

      Has Woodson every directly addressed Aldrich’s playing time? I’d love to hear what he would say about it, it’d be hilarious. Not playing him is contrary to “The East is big, man”, so would Woody malfunction?

    91. DRed

      Yeah, its strange. Cole, like the East, is big, man. He’s also good at rebounding and defense, which we all know was the foundation of our success last season. And coach still wouldn’t give him 15 a night. I don’t get it.

    92. er

      @ 101 very compelling case. But you lost me when you said Jones can adapt but melo can’t.
      Also, guys who are scorers are more valued because it’s talent. Being “good” at a lot of things is not talent. Being top 5 in a certain skill whether it be scoring or rebounding or whatever, in the greatest league in the world is TALENT. And Talent cost money. Being above average is a dime a dozen

    93. DRed

      Carmelo is top 5 at playing minutes and taking shots. Scoring is valuable if you do it efficiently. Among players who played at least 1000 minutes this season, melo’s TS% is 81st in the NBA. I know TS% isn’t everything, but come on.

    94. Totes McGoats

      So wait..I’m a little confused. If Atlanta loses 2 the Bucks and the Knicks beat Toronto, each team will have a 37-45 record right? And the Knicks won the season series against Atlanta 2-1, or am I missing a game? Seems to me like we should win the tiebreaker. Then again it is 5 AM and I’m up typing on my phone with 1 eye open so…maybe I did miss something. Help me out

    95. Farfa

      I think the real question should be: is Melo able to take control of a series? Because that is what star players with rings have done. Other than that, we all know what we have with Melo: great talent, not a lot of character (but not a lot of pouting either, so that balances out), could be top 10 NBA in a system that maximizes his talents and hides his weaknesses.

      Personally, I think we’re kinda deluded if we think Melo can take us to the promised land. Still, we’re more deluded if we think that the Asik, Lin, Jones and Parsons package would be a great haul per se. We need to put it in the right perspective, and that means that only the coaching system can give an answer.

      Let’s wait until we know who is gonna be appointed coach for next year. If it’s someone with brains (as Kerr seems to be) I think that ? + Shumpert + Melo + Amare + ? will be a competent starting five, and a bench of Prigioni, Murry, Smith, THJ, Aldritch, Tyler, D-League shooter 1 will be weak but somehow passable. Those two question marks above are hopefully what we can get by trading Chandler to a contender or a growing team. If the Chandler trade goes as I hope (Neal and Henderson from Charlotte), that starting five could be Shumpert – THJ – Henderson – Melo – Amare, with Neal taking a seat on the bench. Please make it happen (keep in mind that Neal and Hendo deals are 2015 expiring too). And don’t let Bargs play unless you really have to.

      Then, in 2015 you can pursue one or more great FAs. I keep on hoping that Melo opts in, though.

    96. Totes McGoats

      Thanks BC..I figured that I was.
      Last night’s game was really enjoyable. No matter how bad the season was, I do quite enjoy watching the team smash the Nets.

    97. johnno

      “Among players who played at least 1000 minutes this season, melo’s TS% is 81st in the NBA. I know TS% isn’t everything, but come on.”
      And, in the top 20 in the league in TS% are the following players — Brandan Wright, Chris Anderson, Mason Plumlee, Pablo Prigioni, Mike Miller, Tyson Chandler, Jeff Ayres, Andrew Bogut, Bismack Biyombo, Samuel Dalembert, Anthony Tolliver and Steve Novak. Is any one of those guys anything more than a “role player?” Don’t get me wrong — just about everyone on that list is a useful player who can help a team win. Let’s say a draft was held today and every single player in the league was available, and let’s assume further that you were picking a team for only one season (so age and potential future improvement or regression doesn’t matter), how many of those guys would be among the top 50 guys taken? Probably none. That’s why I consider them “role players.” Role players are very important. You can’t win with a team made up of only volume scorers. Conversely, you can’t win with a team made up of “efficient” shooters who only take 5 shots a game. Put another way, Dennis Rodman was hugely valuable on a team on which they didn’t need him to score at all. He would not be nearly as valuable on a team with no one who could shoot.

    98. Frank O.

      Really hard to care about this franchise right now.
      Just to be clear:
      Jackson will not be coaching; he’ll be running the back office.
      He’s almost always been surrounded by enormous talent, but we haven’t actually seen him in a role remotely like the one he’s in, where he needs to rebuild.
      The triangle was successfully run by him, with enormously talented players, but the triangle has not been run as well by others or with teams that had lesser talent.
      The Knicks still have the worst backcourt in the NBA, and yet some folks still are focused on keeping Melo, a player the Knicks can effectively use to get a hand in the coming deep NBA draft. The same goes for Tyson, who does not appear interested in playing through a ‘we’re not really trying to win’ year, as per a Daily News or NY Post story this am.
      Both players would enable the Knicks to accumulate assets, expiring contracts and draft picks.
      Bottom line, the Knicks need to focus on rebuilding — going young, particularly in the backcourt, like NBA draft young. Then be in a position for 2015 free agency, where, without Melo, Chandler, Bargs or Stat, as well as a few other guys on the roster, they might get an asset or two.
      At that point (2015), under the best of circumstances, you have one great player, possibly two very good players, through free agency, a passel of young draft choices with a year of NBA ball under their belts, and, unless they go in trades, JR (maybe traded), Ray Fat-ton (pray, traded), Iman (likely traded), Prigs and Hardaway.

      I think this season has turned off Melo and Chandler; both are ready to go.
      I don’t know how we do all this; I know, however, this is where I would start, conceptually getting younger and then playing big in free agency.

    99. er

      Carmelo is top 5 at playing minutes and taking shots

      Isnt that a skill. He shot 45% from the field and 40% from three…..umm those are better numbers than most. especially at that volume

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