Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, July 24, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.03.17)

  • [New York Times] Dwyane Wade on Pace to Lead All Guards in Shooting (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 08:23:53 GMT)
    Miami’s Dwyane Wade is on the cusp of doing something he’s never done.    

  • [New York Times] Griffin Leads Clips Past Cavs to 11th Straight Win (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 05:14:52 GMT)
    Blake Griffin entered the back half of his 20s with a birthday serenade from the crowd and another dynamic demonstration of why he’s only getting better with age.    

  • [New York Times] Curry, Thompson Lift Warriors Past Trail Blazers (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 04:26:52 GMT)
    Stephen Curry scored 28 of his 37 points in the second half and Klay Thompson made the go-ahead 3-pointer with 11.1 seconds remaining to lead the Golden State Warriors to a 113-112 victory over the Portland Trail Blazers on Sunday night.    

  • [New York Times] Love, Dieng Double-Double and T-Wolves Beat Kings (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 03:05:52 GMT)
    An unexpectedly strong performance in the middle gave the Minnesota Timberwolves a big lift Sunday night.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Game of the Week: Teams That Cope (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 02:36:20 GMT)
    The Bulls and the Thunder have each played well this season without their star point guards. Their game Monday night will offer a look at how far they might go in the playoffs.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Allen Lifts Slumping Heat (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 02:19:28 GMT)
    Ray Allen scored 14 of his 25 points in the fourth quarter and had a milestone day in the victory as he passed Allen Iverson on the N.B.A.’s scoring list.    

  • [New York Times] Marion, Carter Help Mavericks Beat Thunder 109-86 (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 01:44:55 GMT)
    Shawn Marion scored 19 points, Vince Carter added 18 and the Dallas Mavericks beat Oklahoma City 109-86 on Sunday night, ending a seven-game regular-season losing streak to the Thunder.    

  • [New York Times] Spurs Beat Jazz 122-104 for 10th Straight Win (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 01:41:51 GMT)
    Manu Ginobili scored 21 points to help the San Antonio Spurs beat the Utah Jazz 122-104 on Sunday night for their 10th consecutive victory.    

  • [New York Times] Davis Powers Pelicans Past Celtics in Overtime (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 01:20:55 GMT)
    Anthony Davis set career highs with 40 points and 21 rebounds, and Eric Gordon made two crucial free throws in overtime to lead the New Orleans Pelicans to a 121-120 victory over the Boston Celtics on Sunday night.    

  • [New York Daily News] Ex-Bull says Jax will be Zen-sational (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 02:52:16 GMT)
    Scott Williams, former Chicago Bulls center and current Milwaukee Bucks assistant coach, put his big men through their paces before the Bucks’ game against the Knicks at the Garden Saturday afternoon.    

  • [New York Daily News] Bondy: Mixed smoke signals? Tough to predict Phil’s fate with Knicks (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 02:34:24 GMT)
    When you hire a great plumber to be your general contractor, anything can happen. He might own the vision to build an impressive mansion with a solid foundation, or he might just be a great plumber who sticks you with a money pit.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks find right lineup mix with Amar’e, J.R. in starting five (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 02:09:32 GMT)
    As an undercard to the public pursuit and hiring of Phil Jackson over the past 10 days, the Knicks have taken off since moving Stoudemire and J.R. Smith into the starting five, winning six straight games for the first time this season following a 21-40 start.    

  • [New York Daily News] Bondy: Yipee for Hippie! Garden exec Phil long way from bohemian roots (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 01:30:08 GMT)
    Fifteen million dollars? Autonomy to preside over a showcase NBA franchise in New York? There was a time, a far cry from this moment, when Phil Jackson was living paycheck to paycheck, making do with little more than meal money, installing an erratic flex offense with players named Andre Gaddy and Ralph McPherson, not Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.    

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Opening Tip: Believe in Knicks' big three? (Mon, 17 Mar 2014 06:00:15 EDT)
    The Knicks enter the week 3 1/2 games back of Atlanta with 15 games to play. Their path to the postseason isn’t an easy one. Four of their next five games are against teams that are at least 14 games under .500. But nine of their final 10 games are against teams over .500. Eight of 10 are against teams currently in playoff position. Only the Jazz and Suns aren’t within the top-eight seeds in their conference, and Phoenix is 10 games over .500. The fact that they’re even in contention for a playoff spot at this point in the season is a testament to Amar’e Stoudemire.

  • 40 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.03.17)

    1. lavor postell

      Here’s a question. Let’s assume Melo opts out this summer and Phil uses his Zen to get Amar’e to opt out and re-signs both at significant discounts (Amar’e obviously much less), would that allow us to use the full MLE? This is probably a useless discussion, because I have no idea why STAT would opt out of his last big payday, but if a miracle like that were to happen I wanted to understand the ramifications on exceptions at our disposal. Would we still have Bird Rights on Amar’e if he opts out?

    2. thenoblefacehumper

      They are indeed both defensively challenged. One, when healthy, is a huge plus on offense. The other, regardless of health, is a bad offensive player.

    3. Garson

      Here’s a question. Let’s assume Melo opts out this summer and Phil uses his Zen to get Amar’e to opt out and re-signs both at significant discounts (Amar’e obviously much less), would that allow us to use the full MLE?

      If Phil gets Amare to Opt out of $23,410,988, I think we are misusing his talents. He should be sent to Ukraine immediately to solve the conflict.

    4. flossy

      Hmm, let’s see, assuming their defense is equally terrible, if both are healthy would you prefer

      1. the player averaging (on the Knicks) 22 and 8 per 36 on .570 TS%, or

      2. the player averaging (again, on the Knicks) 16 and 6.4 per 36 on .510 TS%?

      I… don’t see this as being a very close call tbh.

    5. mase

      ‘Hmm, let’s see, assuming their defense is equally terrible, if both are healthy would you prefer

      1. the player averaging (on the Knicks) 22 and 8 per 36 on .570 TS%, or

      2. the player averaging (again, on the Knicks) 16 and 6.4 per 36 on .510 TS%?

      I… don’t see this as being a very close call tbh.”

      factoring in $11m vs. $22M per season?

    6. yellowboy90

      @ 1. no, they would still be over the tax unless they cane trade Bargs for the tpe and also clear Tyson’s cap space.

      It also doesn’t make sense money wise for stat to take a pay cut. However, say Phil can get Stat an Bargs to both sign 5 yr deals for ~6.5M & ~4.5M and then trade Chandler for picks and tpe then yes they would have the full mle. I think. I’m not a capologist and don’t really think it makes much sense for either. It’s not like they can make a run at game changing FA. I guess they could use Tyson to get a player and waive both stat and Bargs over summer 15 which would be about a 4.3 M cap hit using the stretch provision but that seems like a lot of work for nothing. Maybe I’m wrong,

    7. Nick C.

      ‘Hmm, let’s see, assuming their defense is equally terrible, if both are healthy would you prefer

      1. the player averaging (on the Knicks) 22 and 8 per 36 on .570 TS%, or

      2. the player averaging (again, on the Knicks) 16 and 6.4 per 36 on .510 TS%?

      I… don’t see this as being a very close call tbh.”

      factoring in $11m vs. $22M per season?

      Bargs is overpaid at any price. Amare is just overpaid but at least gives you something useful on the court.

    8. flossy

      As others have said, their salary is irrelevant because a) we are so far over the cap that if either one disappeared, we’d still be over the cap and b) in both cases, their salaries are high enough that nobody will trade for them.

    9. mase

      flossy, thats a rationalization…the hit n the cap at $10M difference is too large to make that argument….amare has the worst contract in sports…im not jumping on a bandwagon for a player who has been effective against shitty frontcourts. against indiana he will go back to being a useless turnover machine for $22m, and thats who we play in the first round if we make the playoffs. bargs is more useful in the postseason than amare ‘the master of gar-baje buckets’, and the postseason is where it all counts

    10. lavor postell

      I’m going to side with the player who’s been an integral part of teams that have advanced deep into the Western Conference playoffs and can score efficiently over the guy who was an integral part of a horrible Knicks team and can’t hit wide open threes, his supposed forte.

    11. thenoblefacehumper

      flossy, thats a rationalization…the hit n the cap at $10M difference is too large to make that argument….amare has the worst contract in sports…im not jumping on a bandwagon for a player who has been effective against shitty frontcourts. against indiana he will go back to being a useless turnover machine for $22m, and thats who we play in the first round if we make the playoffs. bargs is more useful in the postseason than amare ‘the master of gar-baje buckets’, and the postseason is where it all counts

      What is with the renaissance in Bargs love these past few days?

    12. DRed

      Since when did “how does he play against the Pacers” become the standard by which we judge players? We play the Pacers 3 times this year.

      Bargs, in point of fact, will be useless if we somehow manage to face Indiana in the playoffs this year, because Bargs is also really bad at staying healthy.

    13. lavor postell

      No he’s not worth the contract, but he’s still way better than Bargs. If both of them were playing at the best level they’ve produced at in their career, STAT is an incredibly efficient scoring big with a good mid-range game and one of the best PNR big men in NBA history. Bargs would be a decent shooting big with good range, but little else of value.

    14. thenoblefacehumper

      the reason we acquired bargs was for the post season.

      …And partly because of him we probably won’t make it there. Even if we go with the assumption that Bargs is good against Indiana (which, I don’t think he would be, because he can’t actually shoot 3′s), that’s a shitty reason to trade for him.

    15. mase

      he can shoot 3′s , not great though… he can draw defenses away from melo. thats his asset for us. stat not so much

    16. lavor postell

      I understand that floor spacing is important but STAT also allows Melo to be a spot up shooter on a number of possessions because he actually can score in the post. STAT is also a good enough shooter from mid-range that he can space the floor next to Melo.

    17. mase

      id much prefer to have a healthy bargs than a healthy amare in a playoff series specifically against indiana.

    18. DRed

      I don’t understand how floor spacing works. I thought it was a good thing that Melo drew the defense towards him, because that opened up the floor for other guys. That’s why Melo made everyone around him better on offense. Now he needs a big Italian guy to miss 3′s at a high rate to open the floor up for him?

    19. Nick C.

      I hate to burst anyones’ bubble but 1) Bargs never seemed to stand outside the arc instead positions himself two two three feet in around the elbows 2) he sucks at shooting and needs as much guarding as my 12 year old autistic nephew in rec league games 3) Hibbert was not racing vacating the paint area to guard him when they played 4) people on the internet have a hard time admitting they misjudged things.

    20. DRed

      Just to be clear, we’re talking about the Bargnani who shot 7-25 (1-7 from downtown) against Indiana this year?

    21. JK47

      Bargs can’t hit a wide open shot to save his life, which sort of mitigates the value of his “floor spacing.”

      I don’t understand how a .510 TS% forward who shoots under 28% from 3PT is helping you space the floor. If anything it’s completely the opposite, because opponents know you don’t have to guard him– he’ll either brick a 3 or shoot a long 2, also known as the worst shot in basketball.

      Trying to find value in Bargnani’s game is like trying to say something nice about Nickelback. “Yeah, they’re terrible, but the bass player has fairly good timing, and his guitar is usually in tune.” You have to REALLY squint to see something positive in there.

    22. flossy

      flossy, thats a rationalization…the hit n the cap at $10M difference is too large to make that argument…

      Uh, no. It’s not. Do you understand how the salary cap works? We are so far over the cap that it literally does not make a difference how much Amar’e or Bargnani get paid. We could put them BOTH on the next disappearing Malaysian airliner and WE’D STILL BE OVER THE SALARY CAP.

    23. ephus

      in both cases, their salaries are high enough that nobody will trade for them.

      I disagree. After July 1, both STAT and Bargnani will be tradable expiring contracts. It’s just a question of what you take in return.

      For example, STAT for Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings would work under the cap, and I think that if there is a new GM in Detroit that would be very attractive to Detroit. I think it would be horrible for the Knicks.

      I have the pipe dream that Milwaukee might be ready to give up on Larry Sanders and be willing to do Bargnani for Sanders. I imagine that New Orleans would be happy to do Bargnani for one of Holliday/Evans/Gordon. Again, I think that would be horrible for the Knicks.

      For me, the dream scenario for the Knicks is that Phil Jackson convinces Carmelo Anthony not to exercise his ETO. The Knicks keep Chandler/Stoudemire/Bargnani to the termination of their contracts. In the summer of 2015, the Knicks would have enough cap space to bring in two max free agents and resign Carmelo to a 5 year/$100 million deal (maybe more depending on how the cap moves).

    24. flossy

      I was going to type another response to the “we got him for the post-season” nonsense but why bother?

      Why should barely-literate Bargnani-boosting/trolling elicit multiple, reasoned and well-articulated responses? There should be some kind of stock “STFU, Bargnani sucks” comment that can end debate on the matter in any thread where the pro-Bargnani poster isn’t seriously dazzling us with some new info or next-level statistical analysis. Humoring Zanzibar was one thing. This is just stupid.

    25. flossy

      I disagree. After July 1, both STAT and Bargnani will be tradable expiring contracts. It’s just a question of what you take in return.

      To me, “untradeable” has an implied parenthetical that reads “except possibly in cases that would represent one step forward, eight steps back for the Knicks.”

      This scenario was a huge worry of mine two weeks ago, but with new management, I’m less concerned. And frankly, if Phil Jackson ends up bringing Josh Smith, Brandon Jennings and Tyreke Evans to the Knicks then I will just quit basketball altogether because what would be the goddamn point?

    26. Owen

      Down Il Mago’s rabbit hole again….

      At least it is proof positive of humanity’s ability to see the best in everything that Bargs still has fans….

    27. Frank

      I was not against the Bargnani trade but I’ve come a full 180 on that. He’s terrible except when he hits a hot streak scoring — which happens every 5 games or so. Sucking 4 out of 5 games is not a recipe for success.

      The Bargnani trade was an awful awful terrible trade. Worst ever? Hard to compare this with the Steve Kerr (likely influenced by Sarver wanting to dump $) trade when he was PHX GM – He traded Kurt Thomas and 2 #1 picks (one of which became Ibaka) for a 2nd round pick and a trade exception. THAT has to be maybe the worst trade of all time.

      Trouble with Bargs is that in order for him to be useful, he has to be a good shooter, and he’s not anymore. I’m not sure what happened to him, since he was at least a pretty good shooter until 2009-10 or so. Like others have mentioned, the vast majority of his 3 pointers this year have been WIDE OPEN uncontested shots. A good NBA shooter should hit 40-45% of those at least. Instead he hits 28%. And like others have said too, he actively impacts spacing because he always wanders in from the 3 point line closer to the elbows as play goes on. Yes he’s good at 1-on-1 post defense, but he’s terrible at every other kind of defense.

    28. Hubert

      Wait. Somebody hijacked the 3.16 thread with pro-Bargnani statements, and now someone did it again on the 3.17 thread?

      What the fuck is wrong with people?

      Wait, I think I know. I saw Tommy Dee replying to Chris Herring with pro-AB tweets over the weekend. I think Tommy’s acolytes are rising.

    29. Hubert

      To me, “untradeable” has an implied parenthetical that reads “except possibly in cases that would represent one step forward, eight steps back for the Knicks.”

      At least it is proof positive of humanity’s ability to see the best in everything that Bargs still has fans….

      These two enjoyable lines at least somewhat mitigated the time I wasted reading people defend AB.

      And look, I was very hopeful he might take a leap forward in a different role. I was dead wrong. There is no point defending him.

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