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Sunday, November 23, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.03.06)

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks top T-Wolves to snap skid after Woodson admits he ‘failed’ team (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 06:29:44 GMT)
    Mike Woodson admits he has “failed somewhat” in getting the Knicks to deal with all of the losing and adversity they have faced this season. But the Knicks’ coach also insists that neither he nor his flailing team has or will quit, even with their playoff chances all but mathematically dead.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks Insider: Raymond is happy to assist (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 06:12:37 GMT)
    Mike Woodson said he spoke “in great detail” with Raymond Felton earlier this week about the point guard’s struggles on and off the court since his arrest last week on felony weapons charges.    

  • [New York Post] Knicks’ Felton breaks out of slump (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 03:38:38 -0500)
    MINNEAPOLIS — Give Mike Woodson an assist. The Knicks coach's long heart-to-heart talk with Raymond Felton appeared to jar the point guard out of his shooting funk that plagued him…

  • [New York Times] Blazers Rout Hawks 102-78; Korver’s Streak Ends (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 07:17:50 GMT)
    Wesley Matthews had a simple goal going into the Blazers’ game against the Hawks: Don’t let Kyle Korver get the ball.    

  • [New York Times] Nets Beat Grizzlies, Over .500 for First Time (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 04:29:50 GMT)
    Jason Kidd has a winning record for the first time in his coaching career.    

  • [New York Times] Knicks 118, Timberwolves 106: Knicks End Skid, but It’s Still a Struggle (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 04:03:20 GMT)
    The Knicks nearly blew a double-digit lead in the second half before holding off Minnesota and ending a torturous seven-game losing streak.    

  • [New York Times] Nuggets End Skid by Beating Mavericks 115-110 (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 03:59:51 GMT)
    Wilson Chandler scored 21 points, Ty Lawson had 20, and the Denver Nuggets snapped a six-game losing streak by beating the Dallas Mavericks 115-110 on Wednesday night.    

  • [New York Times] Thomas Lifts Kings Past Bucks 116-102 (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 03:56:55 GMT)
    Isaiah Thomas scored 25 points and had six assists to lead the Sacramento Kings to a 116-102 victory over the Milwaukee Bucks on Wednesday night.    

  • [New York Times] Nets 103, Grizzlies 94: Nets Burst to an Early Lead, Then Cruise Past .500 (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 03:47:47 GMT)
    The Nets can finally call themselves a winning team after a victory over Memphis pushed their record to 30-29. They also signed Jason Collins to a second 10-day contract.    

  • [New York Times] Kevin Love Continues to Put Up Big Numbers (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 03:41:46 GMT)
    Love, a three-time All-Star who figures to be a coveted free agent in 2015 or 2016, improved his standing with a spectacular February for the Minnesota Timberwolves.    

  • [New York Times] Melo, Knicks Snap 7-Game Skid, Top Wolves 118-106 (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 03:35:56 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony scored 33 points to help the New York Knicks snap a seven-game losing streak with a 118-106 victory over the Minnesota Timberwolves on Wednesday night.    

  • [New York Times] Thompson, Lee Lead Warriors Over Celtics 108-88 (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 03:05:56 GMT)
    Klay Thompson and David Lee scored 18 points each and the Golden State Warriors went a season-high 14 games over .500 with a 108-88 romp over the Boston Celtics on Wednesday night.    

  • [New York Times] Augustin, Noah Lead Bulls Past Pistons 105-94 (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 03:05:55 GMT)
    D.J. Augustin scored 26 points off the bench and Joakim Noah had a triple-double as the Chicago Bulls beat the Detroit Pistons 105-94 on Wednesday night.    

  • [New York Times] James Harden Scores 31, Rockets Down Magic 101-89 (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 02:50:56 GMT)
    James Harden scored 31 points, including 25 in the second half, and the Houston Rockets dug out of a double-digit, first-half hole to beat the Orlando Magic 101-89 on Wednesday night.    

  • [New York Times] Jefferson Leads Bobcats Past Pacers 109-87 (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 02:47:48 GMT)
    Al Jefferson scored Al Jefferson scored 34 points in Charlotte’s 109-87 victory over the Indiana Pacers on Wednesday night that gave the Bobcats their fifth straight home win.    

  • [New York Times] Jefferson Leads Bobcats Past Pacers 109-87 (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 02:41:55 GMT)
    Al Jefferson scored 34 points in Charlotte’s 109-87 victory over the Indiana Pacers 109-87 Wednesday night that gave the Bobcats their fifth straight home win.    

  • [New York Times] Ariza Scores 26 Points; Wizards Beat Jazz 104-91 (Thu, 06 Mar 2014 02:36:20 GMT)
    Trevor Ariza scored 26 points, Bradley Beal added 22, and the Washington Wizards took an early lead and never lost it Wednesday night, shooting 54 percent in a 104-91 win over the Utah Jazz.    

  • 87 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.03.06)

    1. Frank

      Good read from Ian O’Connor at ESPN-NY:

      http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/10552403/new-york-knicks-jeff-van-gundy-guy-coach-bockers-next

      I’d be perfectly happy with any of the coaches he mentioned other than Calipari. Calipari has the best talent in the country every year (granted with zero continuity) and hasn’t had the track record of success you’d like to see – and already washed out of the NBA once. I’m not sure he would bring anything positive to the franchise — which of course is the reason he’ll probably be hired.

      But sign me up for any of the other guys — JVG, Thibs, Mark Jackson, probably in that order, for the pro coaches. I don’t know much about Billy Donovan, but UF players seemed to do quite well in the pros, from David Lee to Chandler Parsons to Noah, Horford, Beal, Mike Miller, etc. with the common thread being that they all seem to have pretty reasonable basketball IQs and just know how to play within a team concept. I didn’t realize he was so connected to the NY area too. Would be a good, slightly out of the box hire (that I would completely rule out just because of that).

      Good win last night. I’m barely watching the games nowadays with all the other craziness in my life, but it’s amazing how good this team can look when we get even average guard play. And even though he remains a defensive disaster, I’m happy Amare is getting some run.

    2. yellowboy90

      As a UF fan I would hate to see Billy D go but he is a disciplinarian but will let players work they way back into his good graces. His offense is heavy PnR and has really adapted to his personnel over the years. He has had fast pace and slow pace Os that rely on the 3 and Os that are inside dominant but all of them involve heavy motion. However, despite all his offensive genius he displays he sill preaches defense and this year the D is very good. Its really a thing a beauty to watch them defend. The bigs hedge on the pnr while the other big replaces him and the opposite guard replaces him. This is every game and it helps they have a big, strong, and as active as Patric Young but they also have one of the best on ball defenders in the NCAA in Scottie Wilbekin.
      One think about Billy is that he likes to restrict his players a little to play to his strengths but helps them develop other areas of their games and if he feels they are ready he gives them freedom to carry over what they have been working on during the game.

      Also, I wouldn’t mind Scottie as a UFA summer league pick up because he can defend on and off the ball plus shoot the three(off the dribble, coming off screens, and spotting up). The problem is he is awful right now finishing around the basket. However despite his problems I think he can give what Tour’e can but with more upside to be a true point due to his heavy PnR training at UF.

    3. lavor postell

      @yellowboy

      Totally agree with everything you’ve said about Donovan. I’d be completely on board with taking a chance on Billy. My dream scenario this summer would involve hiring JVG as the director of basketball operations and Stan Van Gundy as the head coach.

    4. Frank

      Bunch of articles out today about Kevin Love and how he would fit next to Melo – without even getting into who is better (I think it’s closer than one might think), IMHO it’s a bad fit. Two no-D playing power forwards = bad combo.

      Looking forward to this offseason, obviously the biggest decision we have is who the head coach would be. As I said above I’d be very happy with JVG/SVG/Donovan.

      For 2015, I think guys like Aldridge and Rondo are going to get overpaid somewhere and I hope it’s not here. Love will get a max contract with the Lakers. Hibbert seems likely to stay with the Pacers. For us, if Mills/Dolan can somehow convince Melo to sign a deal that’s worth, say, $18MM that year and we (obviously) renounce Amare/Tyson/Bargnani/Pablo, give Shump his qualifying offer, assume a $1.5MM salary for our 2015 pick, and assume the cap that year will be ~$64MM we would have about $29MM in cap space (not including cap holds for empty roster spots). If we stretch waive Felton and JR that number can go up to about $35MM. If we rule out Aldridge/Rondo/Love, the best FAs left are Marc Gasol (probably near-max if not max contract) and Goran Dragic (~12MM/year?), who coincidentally would be perfect fits next to Melo IMHO. Or if Gasol looks too pricey, then maybe re-sign Tyson to a short/much lower deal ($8MM/year?) or go for someone like Robin Lopez, and then you can spend money on 3/D guys like Demarre Carroll, Afflalo, or Danny Green.

      I think with the right head coach in place working with Mills to create a roster that makes sense, we could theoretically aim for a team like:

      PG: Dragic ($12MM)
      SG: Afflalo ($10MM)
      SF: Carroll or Danny Green ($5MM)
      PF: Melo ($18MM)
      C: Chandler or Lopez ($8MM)
      (ie. total of $35MM in FA signings including Tyson)
      Bench – Shump/THJ/Tyler/2015 pick then add hungry UDFAs, D-league guys, vet’s minimums)

      That would be the most well-balanced team we’ve seen in many years.

    5. Frank

      The other thing we desperately need on the new coaching staff is someone who is proven at development of young big men. Tyler looks to have tons of potential, and by all accounts we have him under our control through next season. If Tyler can somehow show he can be a starting C in this league at least from the defensive end, that would completely change our priorities in FA in 2015 (assuming of course he doesn’t improve so much that there’s a bidding war for his services in 2015).

    6. ephus

      Frank – what color are the drapes you are measuring for?

      Everything you say makes sense, so long as (1) everyone stays healthy and (2) everyone remains roughly the player they are today.

      As a thought exercise to show what sort of Dallas 2010-11 roster the Knicks could put together around Melo, this is fine. As an actual blueprint, it is far too early.

      For example, if the Knicks could trade Bargnani’s expiring deal next year for Larry Sanders, I think the Knicks would have to seriously consider it. Sanders is a high-risk/high-reward player who might thrive under the right coach/system.

    7. Donnie Walsh

      Didn’t Donovan have his contract with the Magic rescinded one day after signing it because he got cold feet. And that was to coach Dwight Howard and an emerging powerhouse in a state where he was already royal.

      What about the Knicks would make him want to “try it again”?

    8. DRed

      Sanders is a high-risk/high-reward player who might thrive under the right coach/system.

      Here’s a thought experiment: describe the Knicks current system.

    9. thenamestsam

      There’s a lot of aspects to that comment – but focusing just on Love I agree that it’s not a good fit. He really is pretty terrible on defense, and while I can see him and Melo being reasonably compatible on O given how deadly they both are from downtown I think we have enough evidence at this point that looking to pair other high usage scorers with Melo is the wrong idea. We should be looking for a team of well rounded players to put around him(assuming he stays). Plus, I think with all the grumbling out of Love’s camp that is already surfacing I can’t see him taking a chance on a team that has been every bit as bad as the Wolves.

    10. ephus
      Sanders is a high-risk/high-reward player who might thrive under the right coach/system.

      Here’s a thought experiment: describe the Knicks current system.

      The Knicks do not currently have the right coach or the right system. If JVG, SVG or Phil Jackson were in charge (not just coach, but in charge), the right system might emerge.

      I do not think that the Knicks have a path that guarantees success. I do not even think the Knicks have a path that makes them the leading contender if everyone plays to expectations. I do think that there are a few paths that the Knicks might take that would lead to championship contention if some players reach their ceilings.

      My fear (shared by many on this board) is that a Melo/Love team could not succeed because (1) neither should be defending 3s, and (2) neither is a strong rim protector at the 4. They would need a great pass-first PG (Rondo?) and super defenders at the 2 and 5 to make up for their defensive liabilities.

    11. lavor postell

      I’m not really a huge fan of Eric Gordon, but I think New Orleans is a likely trade partner for the Knicks. They will be paying Gordon/Holiday/Evans a combined $36m through 2016. I wouldn’t be shocked to see a STAT-JR-Shump for Gordon-Anderson trade next year. Obviously the major negative is that Anderson and Gordon will be payed $23.5m through 2016, but that’s a definite immediate upgrade for the roster without sacrificing too much.

      If you can get Melo around $18m for that summer and enter with Melo, Gordon, Anderson, THJ, 2015 1st rder and Felton, assuming a $64m cap you would still have around 20m in cap space to play with. If we use the stretch provision on Felton that would give us around $23m in cap space. Anderson and Gordon aren’t great players that are going to make us a bonafide contender, but I also think they make us a far more attractive destination for any free agents we’d be targeting in 2015. I’d be fine with that if we could sign Rondo and a defensive big like Robin Lopez with our remaining cap space. We’d also still have the full MLE at our disposal under that scenario as well.

      While I don’t particularly care for Anderson it also prevents us from stupidly spending all of our money on guys in 2015 and spreads out the wealth a bit more. We’d have max cap space available again the following year which should feature free agents like Durant, Batum, Noah, Horford, Lee, Conley etc.

      Ideally we’d be a well run organization and I’d have more faith in us to show restraint and not splurge unnecessarily with our load of 2015 cap space, but I can’t see that happening. If Melo re-signs it will be based on a promise to build a team around him via free agency in 2015 and if he doesn’t Dolan will be desperate to sign a flashy new star. I’d prefer to save us from ourselves while patiently building a competitive roster. If as ephus suggested we could get Sanders I’d prefer that over this.

    12. Z

      Has anybody considered this:

      Detroit gives Evan Turner a 4 year $68,000,000 this summer.
      The Pistons (shockingly) fail to improve.
      Dumars gets fired in December.
      New GM cleans house.
      Knicks trade Amar’e and Bargnani and everything else in the cupboard for Turner, Smith, and Jennings.

      Anthony. Jennings. Smith. Turner. Chandler.

      Dolan just wet himself.

      And, best part of all, it can even be accomplished with Carmelo on the super-max! (Suck it, Prohorov, you’ll never out spend NYK when it comes to putting mediocrity on a basketball court!)

    13. lavor postell

      Don’t think Dumars will still be GM after the season…for our sakes. Wouldn’t actually be all that surprised if Izzo leaves MSU and takes the Pistons job this summer.

    14. ephus

      Ryan Anderson – when healthy – is not the answer to the Knicks’ problems. He is a strong shooting stretch 4 who cannot defend 3s and does not protect the rim. Since he is not healthy and has back issues, I do not see this one working.

      On the other hand, I think the Knicks should be open to Omer Asik as a potential 2015 free agent. Last year, he showed that he can protect the rim, grab rebounds and set picks. At the MLE, he might be a good buy to replace Chandler.

    15. lavor postell

      @ephus

      Yeah I agree. I guess I was kind of spitballing but I’d also like to see what a good coach with a system could do with a frontcourt of Melo-Andersen-Chandler. I also think Andersen could replace a lot of what we miss from Copeland and Novak even if he isn’t paired with Melo.

      Asik would be great at the MLE. Good call.

    16. DRed

      We should let Carmelo walk, trade Chandler for whatever we can get, suck again for a year, and then begin to rebuild by adding good players.

    17. Frank

      We should let Carmelo walk, trade Chandler for whatever we can get, suck again for a year, and then begin to rebuild by adding good players.

      In a vacuum I would agree with you — but I think what this team needs most is a strong head coach who actually holds players accountable and has a strong defensive background (ie. the guy that Woody was supposed to be but obviously isn’t). I don’t think a coach like that will come for a total teardown. And it’s hard to rebuild when you’re missing 2 out of your next 3 1st round picks and all of your 2nd round picks. Even if we trade Chandler, I doubt you’re getting much more than a late 1st for him and you’d probably have to take salary back to boot. And you could have all the salary cap flexibility in the world in 2015 but if you don’t have a coach with vision and a “franchise” player to anchor the recruiting process, are we really expecting the best FAs to come to a situation which is even worse than what Amare signed up for in 2010? At least at that point we had some young pieces in Chandler and Gallo and there was Donnie Walsh to give the FO some degree of credibility. If we let Melo walk we won’t have anyone even close to Gallo/Chandler in terms of overall potential, would probably have a 2nd-3rd tier coach in place, and obviously wouldn’t have any sort of credible management team. We would basically be banking on sucking so badly that we win the lottery or get a top 3 pick (which could happen), and then picking from the dregs of the FA class. Not exactly an exciting prospect. Or we could do like Philly and let teams dump their bad short contracts into our cap space and extracting draft picks for our trouble – but then that means probably sucking for longer.

      We are really hamstrung at this point because we have no picks. I think our most reasonable path forward is re-signing Melo for a reasonable sub-max price and taking our chances.

    18. d-mar

      Whatever we do, please please no Rondo, it has all the earmarks of a classic Knicks move – acquire a player who is probably past his peak and had issues with one of the best coaches in the NBA (as well as his teammates) , and then watch as he leads us into mediocrity.

    19. Frank

      In terms of a plan for this coming season — I think we should hire a great coach, then try and get someone like Vince Carter to come for a 1 year mini-MLE deal. I think JVG in and of himself would be worth 15 additional wins, and having a competent 2-way and professional swingman would make a big difference also.

    20. hoolahoop

      I know everyone is on the JVG bandwagon, but I think it may be a big mistake. These knicks are not a team that he’d be inheriting from Pat Riley culture.
      His style is geared towards a slow, grind it out game, defensively, with a steady diet of iso offense. Great if they win, painfully boring if they lose.
      And the more I hear him speak these days, the less confidence I have in him. For starters, he repeatedly gives Woodson a 100% pass on this season. I’ll say it again. Zero blame for Woodson! Announcing games, he adds a lot of insight, but also has some view points that expose him as just another human being with opinions – a lot of them wrong.
      Obviously, anything is an improvement over Woodson, but I’d much rather see Mark Jackson here. He’s a players coach that would help younger guys flourish in an environment of great camaraderie.

    21. DRed

      Signing Melo to a “reasonable” sub-max contract means we’re stuck with Melo as a major piece for the next 5 years. For how many of them can we reasonably hope he’s an all-star caliber player? 2? 3? Barring a miracle, we’re going to be mediocre or worse next year, so that gives us a year or two to get a title with Melo. That’s not going to be easy.

    22. DRed

      As for Van Gundys, I think I’d rather hire Stan. I love Jeff, and he’d be better than this shit-show, but I’m not sure if he can coach an offense in the 3 crazy modern NBA. Also, I really like him as an announcer, and I wouldn’t want to lose that.

      And one more thing about Melo-I think he (very underestandably) doesn’t want to go through this shit for another year, and I think re-upping drastically increases the chance we do something really dumb in the offseason.

    23. Frank

      His style is geared towards a slow, grind it out game, defensively, with a steady diet of iso offense. Great if they win, painfully boring if they lose.

      I don’t think we have any idea what kind of offense he would run at this point. He’s been out of the league for 8 years and everything is different now. And honestly, nothing is more painful than watching this current team.

      Signing Melo to a “reasonable” sub-max contract means we’re stuck with Melo as a major piece for the next 5 years. For how many of them can we reasonably hope he’s an all-star caliber player? 2? 3? Barring a miracle, we’re going to be mediocre or worse next year, so that gives us a year or two to get a title with Melo. That’s not going to be easy.

      Melo would be 35 at the end of his contract, not 38 – I think he could be a very valuable player until the end of that contract. Maybe not fully deserving of $20MM/year, but not totally overpaid either. He’s become a sniper from long-range and doesn’t really rely on overwhelming athleticism (other than his first step). He takes care of his body. Hasn’t had any major injuries yet. I don’t see why we would assume he would have a massive dropoff.

    24. Frank

      And one more thing about Melo-I think he (very underestandably) doesn’t want to go through this shit for another year, and I think re-upping drastically increases the chance we do something really dumb in the offseason.

      This I agree with unfortunately.

    25. flossy

      And the more I hear him speak these days, the less confidence I have in him. For starters, he repeatedly gives Woodson a 100% pass on this season. I’ll say it again. Zero blame for Woodson!

      Former (and maybe future?) NBA coaches who go into broadcasting virtually never trash other coaches on the air.

    26. hoolahoop

      And honestly, nothing is more painful than watching this current team.

      My first thought was, Nothing truer has ever been said. But imagine another year of Woodson – with a ragtag squad minus Melo.

    27. JK47

      His style is geared towards a slow, grind it out game, defensively, with a steady diet of iso offense. Great if they win, painfully boring if they lose.

      Since I’ve spent the last 15 years watching the Knicks suck giant elephant balls on defense, I’d welcome watching a team that can actually prevent the other team from scoring, so sign me up for this. I don’t care if I have to watch iso offense, just don’t make me watch a team with a 109.5 defensive rating.

    28. flossy

      Whatever we do, please please no Rondo, it has all the earmarks of a classic Knicks move – acquire a player who is probably past his peak and had issues with one of the best coaches in the NBA (as well as his teammates) , and then watch as he leads us into mediocrity.

      Agreed. Rondo is, or has been, an electric player, but a) there are still major holes in his game, b) he’s had the benefit of a top-tier coach and HoF teammates (some of whom he managed to alienate) for his entire career until this season, c) even then, Boston’s offense was pretty pedestrian over the past few years, and d) he’s had a serious injury and has so far been horrible since coming back from it.

      People assuming he’ll get a max contract are crazy, IMO. I’d rather have a PG like Dragic or Lowry even at equal money.

    29. hoolahoop

      Former (and maybe future?) NBA coaches who go into broadcasting virtually never trash other coaches on the air.

      Yes, I understand that. But he just doesn’t sidestep questions about Woodson bearing some of the blame. He has a litany of excuses for him. (i.e. You just don’t go from haiving a 54 win season to becoming a bad coach. Or, it’s the roster. Or, etc. etc. )
      I often think he has some ulterior motive because he makes such little sense.

    30. Owen

      Dred – Agreed. Nothing tops the Eddy Curry era. We did win 54 games last year,’at least.

      Love and Melo could not be more mismatched.

      Woodson is horrible but it’s going to take a lot more than a good coach for the Knicks to jump back into contention.

    31. DRed

      Now starring in The Melo Whisperer : Joakim Noah

      The sources said Noah told Anthony something to this effect: You can go to Los Angeles, but if you really want a ring, if you really want your legacy to be about winning, you should come to Chicago.

      Anthony responded by telling Noah that he admires how hard the Bulls play and how hungry they are. He also told him, according to the sources, that Derrick Rose is his son’s favorite player.

      Sources said Rose also wants the Bulls to add Anthony and would be willing to help recruit him if he is asked to do so.

      Whatever happens, it’s going to be a long few months of this anonymous source whisper-whisper bullshit.

    32. Donnie Walsh

      Yup. 2008. That was the year that ended with the inane 3 game winning streak. We even managed to fuck up losing. No Love. No Rose. No Mayo. (And, most importantly, no Westbrook)

    33. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, I dug Gallo, but he was one pick after Love. And two picks after Westbrook. Blargh!

    34. Brian Cronin

      Then again, I guess better to pick Gallo one pick after Love and two picks after Westbrook than to pick Michael Beasley two picks ahead of Westbrook and three picks ahead of Love. ;)

    35. DRed

      “In the crappy East – that might not be THAT bad.”

      Oh, but it was.”

      Eerily prescient, Cronin.

    36. Brian Cronin

      Eerily prescient, Cronin.

      Right? The East has literally sucked for over a decade now. The only difference is that the top teams are at least really good nowadays.

    37. KnickfaninNJ

      At that point it had been 7 years since we’d seen a Knicks team with a winning record. Maybe you’ve forgotten, or maybe you weren’t a Knicks fan at that point, but that shit was much worse than this. At least in my opinion.

      Those 7 years were a sustained period of badness worse than this period, but for an individual year, this one is just as bad as 2008. Towards the end of that season, the games were still worth watching and I can’t say that this year. Also, this year follows a 54 win season that gave many of us hope the Knicks would be good this year, while 2007-8 was just another season of not getting better. The dissappointed expectations add to the disappointment of this season.

    38. thenamestsam

      07-08 was definitely the darkest overall point as a Knicks fan (and I say that even as someone who wasn’t as diehard then as I am now). It really puts it in perspective for me to realize that as absurd as it is that Woodson hasn’t yet been canned, he would have to continue fucking up at his current astronomical rate for another 2 years or so while somehow improbably keeping his job to match Isiah. It’s almost incomprehensible.

    39. Brian Cronin

      The difference is that this team has a good deal more realistic hope than the 07-08 team. 2015 is a lot more realistic of a free agency period than 2010 was, as 2010 was built solely around “Lebron or bust.” This theoretically could have a reduced salary Melo along with good free agents surrounding him. 2007-08 had one chance – Lebron James coming to New York, which we all knew had to be a longshot.

    40. JK47

      2008 was only 6 years ago, and to think we’re pretty much right back there is awfully depressing. It’s probably gonna be a while before this team is any good again, and then you’re talking about a 20-year window in which the Knicks won ONE playoff series.

      The sheer accumulation of failure that has amassed at this point makes this season even worse for me than 2008.

    41. KnickfaninNJ

      The difference is that this team has a good deal more realistic hope than the 07-08 team.

      If you mean there is hope that we can start overhauling our roster in 2015, I agree, but that means another year of bad team play in the 2014-2015 season first. And then we have to rebuild, draft people and let them get better. So I don’t believe we will have a good team in 2015-2016 either. So counting the two years Walsh was tearing the team down, the good year last year, the horrible year this year and a lousy year next year and the year after, that’s one good season out of six. It’s hard for me to remember how hopeful I was in 2007-2008, but given that I have almost no hope now, it’s hard to believe it was worse than now.

    42. Brian Cronin

      The key in 2008, and why we were all devoid of hope, is that was before the league forced Dolan to fire Isiah. Remember, at the time, there was no indication that Isiah was going anywhere. Heck, Dolan tried to re-hire him, for crying out loud!! So if the league had not forced his hand, I think he would have kept Isiah for a few more years. And in 2008, there was no end of Isiah in sight.

    43. BigBlueAL

      Speaking about the coaches article mentioned earlier, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD please no Calipari or Mark Jackson.

      Billy Donovan would be very interesting. But Ive been on the JVG or Thibs bandwagon for the past few months and Im sticking to it. For those worried about JVG’s offense, remember he worked for Morey at the end of his career in Houston and has frequently talked about how much he has learned and accepted statistical analysis. Also Stan is huge into advanced stats so you know JVG is probably now too. JVG even in NY was a fan of smaller lineups and using LJ as a stretch 4 so even back then he was somewhat ahead of the curve. In his last season in Houston they attempted the 2nd most 3pters in the NBA (were 3rd in makes and 5th in 3pt % so they were an excellent 3pt shooting team) so he definitely adapted to Morey’s wishes.

      So yeah for me JVG or Thibs would get me excited as hell.

    44. nyk8806

      What makes any of us believe that woody will get canned at the end of the season? Or that his contract will not get reupped? Historical precedent that 1 season of epic incompetence will lead to a coach’s firing? LOL

      bottom line is that so long as Dolan is owner, regardless of all our debating and projecting, we are basically praying for a miracle. Many of us may not be religious, but we are all taking one hell of a leap of faith that things will get better.

    45. Brian Cronin

      It still kills me that JVG learned about statistical analysis too late to help the Knicks. Those late 1990s Knicks teams could have shot so many more threes and they didn’t for no good reason.

    46. airkent

      Yo ephus, how do sign and trades work with the new CBA?

      Could we trade melo for boozer, the rights to mirotic, toney snell and a first rounder?

    47. hoolahoop

      What makes any of us believe that woody will get canned at the end of the season? Or that his contract will not get reupped? Historical precedent that 1 season of epic incompetence will lead to a coach’s firing? . . .

      Exactly.
      All this (logical) conjecture about Woodson being replaced has no basis in this team’s historical actions. If the knicks close out the season strong, making a run at the eight seed, amidst the hysteria, Woodson is more likely to be offered an extension than get fired. We’ve seen this movie before.
      The more you expect, the more disappointed you’ll be.

    48. Brian Cronin

      What’s weird to me about the whole Noah thing is that isn’t Noah pals with Taj Gibson? The guy who would have to be traded to make room for Melo. That must be awkward. Unless Noah’s pitch is “take such a major paycut that just amnestying Boozer and trading Dunleavy would be enough.”

    49. hoolahoop

      What’s worse about this season than all the others is that it’s happening now. . . and hole is deeper than it’s ever been.

    50. Z

      I think Chicago can amnesty Boozer and then sign Anthony outright, no? Do they need to engage NY in a sign-and-trade? (Seems if necessary they can dump Dunleavey’s manageable $3 mil off on somebody without much trouble, correct?)

    51. Z

      Unless Noah’s pitch is “take such a major paycut that just amnestying Boozer and trading Dunleavy would be enough.

      Haha. Looks like you already addressed my post in #53, Brian.

      Is it a “major paycut” though? Chicago looks like they are poised to be right around the salary cap going into July. If they amnesty Boozer, that opens up $17 million right there. Dumping Dunleavy would get it up to $20. Is that a “major paycut” for Anthony? It seems like the same “discount” Knick fans are hoping he’ll re-sign in NY for (and, let’s face it, Chicago presents a much better location for him if winning is at all important (and worth sacrificing a few mega-millions for).

    52. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, fair enough. So I guess Chicago is a lot more realistic that I thought (and I thought it was realistic before, I just figured that they’d have to dump Gibson to make room, which would make them a less desirable place to go). If Melo would go for just Boozer’s cap space, imagine a team of Rose/Butler/Dunleavy/Melo/Noah with Augustin, Snell and Gibson off of the bench. Wow. And that’s not even before you get into any MLE they could use or vet minimum guys willing to go play for a star-studded team like that.

    53. ephus

      Yo ephus, how do sign and trades work with the new CBA?

      Could we trade melo for boozer, the rights to mirotic, toney snell and a first rounder?

      Only if Carmelo took slightly less than a Max Deal from Chicago. He could sign for no more than $22.8 million (first year), but his Max Deal is $23.45 million. The deal could be for up to 4 years and have annual raises of up to 4.5%.

    54. ephus

      An amnesty of Boozer would not clear enough cap room to give Carmelo Anthony anything near a max deal. At most they could offer him a starting salary of around $13.8 million. If they could dump Dunleavy without taking any salary back, they could get their offer up to around $16.8 million.

      If the Knicks would rather have Boozer’s expiring contract, Snell, the rights to Mirotic and a 2014 first round pick (Chicago’s or Charlotte’s) then allow him to walk for nothing and they believe that Carmelo will leave no matter what, they might do the sign-and-trade that airkent proposed.

    55. ephus

      If the Knicks did that sign-and-trade, they almost certainly would not be able to bring over Mirotic next year. They would only have the mini-MLE, and the reports are that Mirotic is going to stay in Europe unless he gets more than the full MLE. In 2015, the Knicks would have the money to bring Mirotic in.

      I am not endorsing any of these moves, just trying to give people an accurate view of the salary cap possibilities.

    56. ephus

      If Rose were healthy (and Carmelo will have a better idea in July when he has to make his decision), Chicago could hold out the prospect of getting nearly full money and playing alongside Rose/Butler/Dunleavy/Noah with Gibson as sixth man.

    57. Z

      An amnesty of Boozer would not clear enough cap room to give Carmelo Anthony anything near a max deal. At most they could offer him a starting salary of around $13.8 million.

      Really? How do you calculate that?

      Larry Coon projects the 2014/15 cap to be $62.1 million. The Bulls sit at $63.8 million in committed salary after July 1st. Boozer’s salary is $16.8, of which it seems that $15.1 would become available to spend on Carmelo Anthony. Add to that the $3.3 million that a Dunleavy dump creates and Anthony could get an offer starting at $18.5.

      That’s not “max” money, but it’s pretty close to the “haircut” figure of $20,000,000 that people have thrown out there as a realistic sacrifice in the name of winning a championship, no?

    58. ephus

      I was figuring on a cap of 60 million. If it moves to 62.1 million, then Chicago’s offers move up to the figures you cited.

      He still does better in a sign and trade.

    59. Donnie Walsh

      He does better in a S&T, but that $18.5 figure may be enough to force the Knicks into doing business with the Bulls, as the difference is marginal enough that Anthony can realistically sign there with or without the Knicks help (and remain a very rich man). (Kind of like how Cleveland got a few daft picks from Miami, even though LeBron was going to Miami and getting paid what he wanted either way)

    60. dtrickey

      On the coaching front I wouldn’t hate either Van Gundy. Maybe a preference on Stan, only because he’s game plan (at least with Orlando) is probably more up to date with the current NBA style of play. Although I feel that Howard was potentially under utilised in that system which probably cost them in the end. At least that was my impression of what they ran in Orlando. That said I wouldn’t hate Jeff either. Listening to him on broadcasts he does still have a pretty good handle on the modern game, and would (at least in my mind) still hold players accountable. I think for either one to be convinced of coming here they would have to have a big say in roster decisions. The last few Knicks games on ESPN he’s pretty much confirmed the rhetoric on how this team should be playing expressed on this blog and elsewhere. Mark Jackson is an interesting prospect. I like what he’s done with the Warriors coming in as a rookie coach, but I think with the roster he’s got GSW should be top tier in the West IMO.

    61. Brian Cronin

      I figure that the $62 million figure seems realistic. After the lockout, they kept the cap figure artificially at $58 million while it was “really” $50 million. And yet in just two seasons the cap got to $58 million naturally, so $62 million seems realistic. But who knows? I could believe $60 million, as well.

    62. hoolahoop

      The writing is on the wall.
      I’m surprised. As much as I hated the Melo trade, as well as his early years here, I’m going to miss him.

    63. KnickfaninNJ

      I visited my brother in the bay area recently. He roots for the Warriors. He is convinced that Jackson is the worst coach in the league. It makes me think twice about him as a candidate for the Knicks job

    64. mokers

      I live in the bay area. Lots of people don’t like Jackson. They say that the one who was responsible for their record was Mark Malone and the offense has been bad since he left for Sacramento. I think it is a bit more complicated than that. I think the biggest problem is expectations. Everybody saw how well they played the Spurs in the playoffs and just expected that to repeat (sound familiar?). Harrison Barnes has not been great and they have not replicated the production of Jack and Landry. Iggy hasn’t quite found his groove in the offense and isn’t distributing as much as he did in Denver.

      I like the Warriors and I love going to games there, but I think they expect a bit much. Two winning seasons in a row with the playoffs is a huge accomplishment. Most of these people complaining about Jackson were the ones who booed the GM for trading away Monta Ellis.

    65. ephus

      Jackson had the Warriors playing defense. Bogut and Iggy are hiding Curry and Lee. That seems like coaching to me.

    66. Donnie Walsh

      I visited my brother in the bay area recently. He roots for the Warriors. He is convinced that Jackson is the worst coach in the league.

      I can discredit your brother as a witness. Exhibit A: the coach of the Knicks. The defense rests. (hey, that’s what Woodson says!)

    67. JR Sec 112

      Is there anyone else watching this Clippers-Lakers game? Its literally more lopsided than Globetrotters-Generals. Chris Paul running the fast break with DeAndre and Blake, looking right at Jordan, throwing up perfect alley-oop to Blake. Ferocious one-handed jam. Seriously, can we just have CP3 and Blake in Knicks jerseys for a couple games next year? Like European soccer players on loan? Please?

    68. The Infamous Cdiggy

      Marc Stein’s reason for the Knicks not having fired Woodson yet is so Dolan:

      http://espn.go.com/blog/marc-stein/post/_/id/1812/why-woodson-is-still-nys-coach

      I really, really want to believe that Melo can see through Dolan’s scheming, and that’s what this really is. Yeah, we all agree Woodson deserves to be let go, but I know a lot (if not all) of us know the problems with this team go far beyond Woodson. To that end, it’d be unfair to scapegoat him for EVERYTHING that went wrong this year.

      Will Woodson himself catch wind of this? If you knew you were about to be set up as a scapegoat, what would you do? I’d have a lot of respect for him – despite the crap job he’s done this year – if he said “Scapegoat? Maaaaaan fuck you I resign!” before the season is done. It’s one thing to do a poor job at something – at least you’re trying and giving effort. But to allow yourself to be used as a tool and fall guy if you know it’s coming? Nah man, I can’t respect that.

    69. Brian Cronin

      I think Stein is dead on about this part:

      Luckily for the Knicks, that approach might even work … albeit mostly because Melo is said to be looking for every reason to stay in New York.

      Cynics will say it’s the $130 million he really can’t bear to leave, but those who know Melo best insist that slinking away from the ballyhooed MSG stage — and thus admitting to the world that he had to go elsewhere and attach himself to better help to win — would wound him.

      That’s what I’m mostly interested in now. I think Melo is definitely coming back. I am just interested in how he explains why he is coming back, as he made all that noise about winning a championship so for him to then return to New York (where he has little chance of winning a championship) will be a fascinating display of PR spin.

    70. Owen

      Yeah, Melo is going to come back and will find some lame way of explaining how the decision wasn’t about the max or about Lala’s lifestyle….

    71. DRed

      If the choice is between the Knicks and 130 million and, say, Chicago for around 80 million, it does not take carnac the magnificent to divine Melo’s answer. I get that he’s willing to make some sacrifice, but 50 million dollars is a lot of money no matter who you are.

    72. er

      Yup DRED this is a bidness first and foremost. A fact that we hate. I actually think he will stay but the Knicks will trade Tyson and stat

    73. Owen

      To be clear, I have no problem with Melo taking an extra 50 million. Don’t fault him, how could you?

      I do wonder what it would be worth to Melo long term to win a title or even just spend three years on a contender. Not 50 million but a bunch of successful years with the bulls might help him close the gap.

      Hard to think of a better player for him to pair with than Noah.

    74. Donnie Walsh

      Hard to think of a better player for him to pair with than Noah

      I don’t know about this. I’m still holding out hope that he and Eddy Curry can form a championship core here in NY.

    75. Zanzibar

      It’s strange but the narrative seems to have flipped. BEFORE: Melo leaving would make him look bad. PRESENT: Melo staying will make him look bad. Everybody is advising him to leave now, to pursue the chip in Chicago. If he stays, he’ll look like someone who’s more interested in the location and money than the chip. And that will tarnish his image. BTW I believe location is the real reason: he and his wife want to be in NYC or LA just like 4 years ago. Nothing’s really changed in that regard. If it had, Melo would have at least explored a Bulls trade at the deadline and had both a better chance to win a chip AND make anywhere from 96m-129m. He didn’t and Lala and Melo started hinting he’s staying; they seemed to have made their decision. But now missing the playoffs and staying will make him look real bad. He may very well feel that he’s got no choice but to leave or face non-stop chatter on how Melo is not all about winning.

    76. Garson

      Its a sad thought that
      Knicks get the : Melo on his Brand Building/Money Making/roster depleating quest
      Bulls will get: Melo on his Championship / Capsaving/ Roster building mission.

    77. lavor postell

      The Bulls are a better situation right now, but if Rose isn’t the play he was before his injuries that salary is going to be a cap killer.

    78. Zanzibar

      The Bulls are a better situation right now, but if Rose isn’t the play he was before his injuries that salary is going to be a cap killer.

      Yes and that’s all the more reason Melo should have bolted for the Windy City at trade deadline. Boozer would not have been amnestied but included as part of trade; Bulls could then have used their amnesty on Rose if he’s a bust.

    79. Z

      Melo should have bolted for the Windy City at trade deadline. Boozer would not have been amnestied but included as part of trade; Bulls could then have used their amnesty on Rose if he’s a bust.

      Rose signed his contract a few days after the lockout ended in 2011, so his contract cannot be amnestied.

    80. Nick C.

      What exactly is Lala’s career? My impression is that she was an MTV VJ or whatever they are called in the post video era. She is now positing herself as some sort of reality star ala her occasional “friend” Kim Kardashian.

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