Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, August 28, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.02.16)

  • [New York Times] Wall Leads East to All-Star Dunk Triumph (Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04:56:42 GMT)
    John Wall soared over his mascot, and the East stomped on the West in the slam dunk contest.    

  • [New York Times] Silver Delivers First Press Conference as NBA Boss (Sun, 16 Feb 2014 02:43:48 GMT)
    Adam Silver kept his focus on the game but hinted at some changes to the business during his first press conference as NBA commissioner.    

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: W.N.B.A. Labor Deal Reached (Sun, 16 Feb 2014 02:38:36 GMT)
    The W.N.B.A. and the players union have agreed to a collective bargaining agreement.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Union Hears From Potential Leaders (Sun, 16 Feb 2014 01:40:30 GMT)
    The N.B.A. players union gathered for a meeting during which candidates to become its executive director gave presentations and answered questions from about 30 players.    

  • [New York Daily News] Lawrence: Melo’s likely option is to remain a Knick (Sun, 16 Feb 2014 07:17:27 GMT)
    The Lakers are shooting for Kevin Love when he is free in the summer of 2015 and maybe another star in 2016. The Clippers are seeing Blake Griffin evolve in front of their very eyes, from the whiner with holes in his game to something much more than a dunker extraordinaire.    

  • [New York Daily News] Lupica: Take the Melo and run (Sun, 16 Feb 2014 06:10:00 GMT)
    They asked Carmelo Anthony about free agency in New Orleans on Friday, asked him if he is going or staying, and he said all the right things about the Knicks and New York and wanting to stay, even if it means taking less money than he could get somewhere else, take a look: “As far as the money, it don’t really matter to me.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks midseason report card: Melo only one pulling his weight (Sun, 16 Feb 2014 06:07:35 GMT)
    It’s almost hard to believe how far the Knicks have fallen in nine months. They were minutes away from forcing the Indiana Pacers to play a Game 7 last year at the Garden and now they sit 20 games behind the Pacers and in 10th place in the Eastern Conference.    

  • [New York Post] Tim Sr. says he knew son would be rising NBA star (Sun, 16 Feb 2014 03:54:59 -0500)
    NEW ORLEANS — Tim Hardaway Sr. said his son has become a better shooter than he ever was and Tim Hardaway Jr.'s talent could never fully flourish in the structured…

  • 43 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.02.16)

    1. d-mar

      Interesting article in SI about Roy Hibbert and the principle of verticality, which we all learned to hate in last year’s playoffs. Turns out Vogel has schooled Hibbert on the rule, and has instructed him not to try and take charges, but instead wait for ball handlers to elevate and chest bump them in midair and not reach downward for the block. And Hibbert studies video of opponents, saying “if someone serves up the ball, I’ll send it out of there. If he tucks it, I’m going straight up every time” He also reminds refs he’s going straight up in every captain’s meeting, and Vogel tells the refs before every game “He’s the best in the league at verticality, let’s honor it”

      So as much as we all have railed against this rule, here’s a player and a coach who have done their homework and taken full advantage of it. Very shrewd, something I can’t imagine our current dunderhead coach even conceiving of.

    2. Hubert

      All that vertical stuff, that’s still up in the air.

      Horizontal is a big part of what we do here. We’re not gonna just kick horizontal to the curb.

    3. Hubert

      But in all seriousness, how can one guy be the best at jumping straight up? It’s not a hard thing to do. Anybody else does the same thing he does and it’s a blocking foul. He’s got his own whistle. And yes, Vogel deserves a tremendous amount of credit for this. But it’s still bullshit.

    4. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      I wonder if Woodson ever yells, “The East is big, man — let’s honor it,” to the refs to explain why he’s giving serious minutes to the league’s worst-ever 7-footer.

    5. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      Hubert, I’m guessing you’ve played basketball before. The game is a lateral-movement game as much as it is a vertical game. You can only jump straight-up if you’re in front of the player you’re trying to stop.

    6. hoolahoop

      So, it sounds like, more important than going vertical, as many players do and still get called for the foul, is to have a multi-pronged campaign pleading to the refs before the game begins.

      The reffing in the NBA has become a farse, just like the $25,000 fines doled out to anyone who complains about it. I’ve been watching games for over forty years and I don’t know what a foul is anymore. Guys going to the hoop get cracked across the head and face – No foul. Guys miss a layup, untouched – Foul.
      It’s not like you’d be crazy to think that the refs are trying to control the game. Tim Donaghy confessed and admitted it was common practice.

    7. Hubert

      Not sure I get where you’re going. Are you attributing Hibbert’s whistle to his skill of moving laterally in order to get position to jump straight up?

      I wouldn’t disagree. I mean to take nothing away from Hibbert. I just think Vogel has acquired a special whistle for him. If Tyson Chandler suddenly started playing the exact same way, he’d find himself in constant foul trouble, IMO, because unless your coach is campaigning for you to be called a certain way, refs are not respecting that rule.

    8. Hubert

      Furthermore, let’s be frank, it’s also a brilliant misdirection ploy. Vogel has got the refs so focused on his verticality that they tend to miss when he whacks someone in the head with his arms or hip checks them as they go by.

      I recall several times in last years’ playoffs where Hibbert knocked the headband off Melo with his arms but nothing was called because he jumped straight up.

    9. ephus

      Hibbert blocking Carmelo during the playoffs was the high water mark of the Woodson Knicks.

      Hibbert blocking Carmelo in Indiana this year was adding insult to injury.

    10. bobneptune

      If Tyson Chandler suddenly started playing the exact same way, he’d find himself in constant foul trouble, IMO, because unless your coach is campaigning for you to be called a certain way, refs are not respecting that rule.

      Maybe if Chandler actually followed the rules as written , we could then judge the results rather than sounding like whinny homers.

      Of course, massaging the refs prior to the action might be advisable, too.

      And , also, if Melo thinks he’s going to get bailed out by hurling his chubby 6’8″ frame out of control 3 inches off the floor into the very tall Mr. Hibbert, he has another thing coming. I honestly cannot believe knowledgeable fans are still whining about last year’s playoffs when it was abundantly clear who the better team was.

    11. ephus

      Bobneptune – I think you are mistaking melancholy for whining. The Knicks have never recovered from Hibbert’s block. They lost the game and the series. They panicked because “the East is big” (meaning Indiana) and traded their tradable assets for Bargnani – who weakened the team at both ends.

      And, just in case Knicks fans were pining for Melo to get another chance at that moment, Hibbert did the same thing this year.

    12. Hubert

      bobneptune:

      Citing the inconsistent standards of NBA refereeing, and the role that off the court campaigning has in determining it, is it’s own thing. No one made any comments about how it affected the outcome of the Pacers series.

      I cited plays from that series simply to demonstrate how the focus on Hibbert’s verticality became a pass to do anything, such as the numerous plays where, while jumping straight up, he whacked Melo in the head with his arms going forward. That occurred, frequently, and was ignored.

    13. Hubert

      And , also, if Melo thinks he’s going to get bailed out by hurling his chubby 6’8? frame out of control 3 inches off the floor into the very tall Mr. Hibbert, he has another thing coming.

      Yeah, who does he think he is? James Harden? Dwyane Wade?

    14. Hubert

      Maybe if Chandler actually followed the rules as written , we could then judge the results rather than sounding like whinny homers.

      It’s not a hypothetical. I watch games every day where players jump vertical and don’t get the call. You don’t get it consistently without the concurrent campaign from your coach. So there is no reason for anyone else to try to follow the rules as written because there isn’t a consistent application of them.

      In time, I suspect more coaches and bigs will follow their lead and it will become more consistent. But right now it’s Hibbert’s rule, mostly, IMO.

    15. d-mar

      You guys should check out Doug McDermott from Creighton, they’re playing Villanova right now on Fox Sports 1. He’s got 13 of their 16 points already, incredible player.

      He may end up going top 5 in the draft, a little bit like Love with great range but also strong post up game.

    16. The Ghost of Ted Nelson

      I know it was a few days ago, and it’s probably been talked to death here, but there just seems to be something not-quite-right about Carmelo Anthony and his recent comments. What on earth has changed between October (when he said he’d opt out) and Now (when he said he was staying with the Knicks for a discount) that would make him change his mind? Back in October the Knicks had hope for their future. But this season has been a disaster beyond belief, and the prospects for next year are even worse. So if he was keeping his options open back then, why would he be closing them now??

      I think this may be at the root of my problem with rooting for him as a fan the way I’ve rooted for other Knick stars before him. He says a bunch of things (and does things) that just don’t make much sense. Either he’s a “freewheeler” and just says whatever’s in his head (or whatever he thinks he’s supposed to say at any given moment) or he has bad handlers and comes across poorly as a result of it. Whatever it is, it makes him seem like a pretty weak leader. If he was a politician running for office, I’d never vote for him. (And I think it’s a waste of a max contract to spend it on a poor leader, as the highest paid guy is always going to be the guy that is looked to, in times of good and bad).

      All that said, it seems to me that the only move that makes any sense for Anthony (at least the “I want to stay in NY even if it requires a discount to be competitive” Carmelo Anthony) is to not opt out and then re-sign in 2015 at a price that allows him to play with the players he wants, right? Why would he opt out for a worse contract when it doesn’t even help the team until the summer after next?

      Makes no sense.

    17. cgreene

      Call me crazy. Since we know that we aren’t trading Melo and we need to do deals to try and keep him. Would trading Chandler and maybe Shump for an extended Bosh be feasible? Start the rebuild around Bosh and Melo. Then maybe do the deal for Lowry and sign him as well. Idk. Lowry, THJ, Melo, Bosh, Tyler. Or you could see if you can get Houston to bite on an Asik package w Tyler, THJ and filler to make the contracts work. Then you have Lowry, Smith, Melo, Bosh, Asik. Am I dreaming? Some of this seems doable.

    18. hoolahoop

      If this was an era of no cap restrictions or luxury tax, the knicks would be better and Dolan would be more popular. One thing about him, he hasn’t been stingy about shelling out the bucks. In fact, if Dolan, Buss, and Reinsdorf were sharper, they’d have used their big market clout to skew the collective bargaining rules to their favor, instead of agreeing to the current set up, meaning less cap restrictions, less luxury tax, and more opportunity to buy your way out of bad situations.

      But, that’s not the case. So, it’s not so much a matter of how good every player on your roster is, as much as it’s about how much of a value they offer in relation to what they’re paid. Bargani sucks for what was given up for him and what he costs in salary, but if the knicks signed him as a free agent for a $1 million a year, he’d be worth every penny. Shump, on the other hand, would be a disaster at $15million/year.

      That being said, a huge window of opportunity opened up for the knicks this weekend. In essence, in a complete turn around from his prior free agency, Melo declared he going to give good value this time around. I’ve never heard a pro athlete come out and say “the money doesn’t matter. I got plenty. . . ” In return, the knicks have to come up with a plan to be a serious contender.
      Since Melo is not going to be the hatchet man, he should broaden his edict to include the necessity for an elite front office.
      The first order of business must be to higher the best front office and coach money can buy.

    19. ephus

      There is no world where Miami would trade Bosh for someone older while the Heat are reigning champions.

      The Rockets are not trading Asok for a THJ-based package

      The Knicks assets are not going to draw much on the trade market.

    20. hoolahoop

      Woodson is such a clusterfuck of a coach that it’s impossible to figure out what the knicks got in terms of talent. It’s one of the biggest problems this team has right now. Makes it exceeding difficult to build upon.

    21. ephus

      Wait. The NBA isn’t bringing out the Red Hit Chili Peppers to “broaden” the appeal of Pharell and friends? Not even Robin Thicke?

    22. max fisher-cohen

      @ted nelson

      I don’t think Melo has been inconsistent about his position. When he first spoke about opting out, he was very vague about why (probably not wanting to insult the team), but insisted that he preferred to stay in NYC. Now that the team has revealed the extent of its suckitude, he still says he prefers to stay in NY but seems to be saying his number one goal is a title and if NY can’t put forth a short term, realistic plan that puts them in title contention, he’ll leave.

    23. yellowboy90

      Well I guess THjr and Melo are showing why they are the Knicks best shooters this weekend. It’s pretty cool.

    24. yellowboy90

      lol that the comments are not in the actual game thread. Co-MVPs would be nice but my money is on Irving. No one likes Melo. ;)

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