Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, October 25, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.01.25)

  • [New York Times] Anthony Sets Records With 62 Points as Knicks Roll (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 08:17:30 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony shot his way past Kobe Bryant, Bernard King and Kevin Durant, and he pulled off one more impressive achievement.    

  • [New York Times] George Leads Pacers Past Kings in OT, 116-11 (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 06:17:14 GMT)
    Paul George scored eight of his 36 points in overtime and the Indiana Pacers defeated the Sacramento Kings 116-111 on Friday night.    

  • [New York Times] Martin’s Shot Lifts Wolves Over Warriors, 121-120 (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 06:14:16 GMT)
    Kevin Martin hit a step-back jumper with 8.4 seconds left, lifting the Minnesota Timberwolves over the Golden State Warriors 121-120 on Friday night for their third straight victory.    

  • [New York Times] Ariza, Beal Help Wizards Beat Suns 101-95 (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 05:05:27 GMT)
    Trevor Ariza scored 23 points, Bradley Beal sank a pair of crucial shots down the stretch and the Washington Wizards opened a four-game road trip Friday night with a 101-95 victory over the Phoenix Suns.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: No Durant, but Thunder Win (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 05:02:22 GMT)
    Kevin Durant missed his first game of the season for Oklahoma City, but Serge Ibaka scored 21 points to lead the Thunder to victory over the Celtics.    

  • [New York Times] Nets 107, Mavericks 106: In the Absence of Their Owner, the Nets Hang On (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 04:26:48 GMT)
    Mark Cuban, the Mavericks’ owner, was at Barclays Center. Mikhail D. Prokhorov, the Nets’ owner, wasn’t. It didn’t seem to matter as the Nets improved their January record to 9-1.    

  • [New York Times] Griffin’s Double-Double Leads Clippers Past Bulls (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 03:53:09 GMT)
    Blake Griffin had 26 points and 13 rebounds to lead the Los Angeles Clippers to a 112-95 victory over the Chicago Bulls on Friday night.    

  • [New York Times] Grizzlies Outlast Rockets 88-87 (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 03:53:09 GMT)
    Courtney Lee scored 19 points, Zach Randolph added 15 and the Memphis Grizzlies held off the Houston Rockets for an 88-87 win on Friday night.    

  • [New York Times] Teletovic Scores 34 and Nets Beat Mavs 107-106 (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 03:39:46 GMT)
    Mirza Teletovic scored 24 of his 34 points in the second quarter and Deron Wiliams had 18 points and 11 assists as the Brooklyn Nets beat the Dallas Mavericks 107-106 Friday night for their fourth straight win.    

  • [New York Times] Varejao, Irving Lead Cavaliers Past Bucks 93-78 (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 03:33:01 GMT)
    Anderson Varejao scored 16 points and Kyrie Irving had 10 points and 10 assists, leading lead the Cleveland Cavaliers to a 93-78 win over the Milwaukee Bucks on Friday night.    

  • [New York Times] Pelicans Beat Pistons 103-101 on Gordon’s Layup (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 03:27:05 GMT)
    Eric Gordon’s driving layup with 1.9 seconds left gave the New Orleans Pelicans a 103-101 victory over the Detroit Pistons on Friday night.    

  • [New York Times] Welcome or Not, 4,000 Football Fans Will Be Afloat at a Hudson River Pier (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 03:18:20 GMT)
    For five days next week a Norwegian Cruise ship will dock on the West Side of Manhattan to serve as a hotel for 4,000 Super Bowl fans.    

  • [New York Times] Knicks 125, Bobcats 96: Carmelo Anthony Scores 62 Points, Setting a Knicks Record (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 03:14:24 GMT)
    Anthony, saying he was “locked in,” had the N.B.A.’s highest single-game total since 2007, leading the Knicks to a rout at Madison Square Garden.    

  • [New York Times] Anthony Breaks Records With 62 as Knicks Roll (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 03:08:06 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony let it fly from halfcourt, and when it went in, he had proof of what was already obvious.    

  • [New York Times] Harris’ Big Game Lifts Magic Over Lakers (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 03:01:55 GMT)
    Tobias Harris had 28 points and a career-high 20 rebounds to lift the Orlando Magic to a 114-105 victory over the obviously fatigued Los Angeles Lakers on Friday night.    

  • [New York Times] No Durant, but Thunder Still Beat Celtics 101-83 (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 02:58:59 GMT)
    NBA scoring leader Kevin Durant missed his first game of the season and Serge Ibaka scored 21 points to lead the Oklahoma City Thunder to a 101-83 victory over the Boston Celtics on Friday night.    

  • [New York Times] Duncan, Spurs Stroll Past Hawks, 105-79 (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 02:58:58 GMT)
    Tim Duncan had 17 points and 16 rebounds in another dominant performance against Atlanta and the San Antonio Spurs coasted to a 105-79 win over the short-handed Hawks on Friday night.    

  • [New York Times] Lowry Has Triple-Double, Raptors Top 76ers 104-95 (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 02:55:58 GMT)
    Kyle Lowry had 18 points, 13 assists and 10 rebounds, and DeMar DeRozan scored 34 points to help the Toronto Raptors beat the Philadelphia 76ers 104-95 on Friday night.    

  • [New York Times] Anthony Sets Knicks, MSG Records With 62 Points (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 02:43:51 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony has scored a Knicks-record 62 points, most at the current Madison Square Garden, in New York’s game against the Charlotte Bobcats on Friday night.    

  • [New York Times] Streaking Thunder Star Durant Sits Out vs Celtics (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 01:10:52 GMT)
    Oklahoma City forward Kevin Durant, the NBA’s leading scorer, was scratched from Friday night’s lineup against the Boston Celtics because of a right shoulder injury.    

  • [New York Newsday] Carmelo Anthony sets Knicks single-game record with 62 points (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 00:15:34 EST)
    Sixty-two points.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Notes: Melo's night impresses King James (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 02:03:19 EDT)
    NEW YORK — Somewhere in South Florida, LeBron James caught wind of Carmelo Anthony’s record-setting performance on Friday night and started live-tweeting it. I'm at a team even and heard @carmeloanthony is doing what!!? 50 in the 3rd. What!!— LeBron James (@KingJames) January 25, 2014

    C'mon Mike Woodson keep @carmeloanthony in. I wanna see 70-75! Well actually I can't see cause I'm at an event but I'll see the highlights!

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Anthony: 'I made history' with 62 points (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 01:32:15 EDT)
    NEW YORK — J.R. Smith noticed something different about Carmelo Anthony as soon as he stepped in the arena on Friday. “His whole demeanor was different. Normally he’s smiling, joking — stuff like that in warmups. But tonight, he was serious,” Smith said. “I saw that look in his eyes.”What Smith saw was the look of one of the best scorers in the NBA at the top of his game. Anthony set the Knicks and Madison Square Garden single-game scoring record on Friday night by pouring in 62 points against the Charlotte Bobcats.

  • [New York Daily News] Melo scores 62 points, breaks Knicks’ single-game record (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 06:40:30 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony scored 62 points to break the all-time Knicks scoring record in a single game and the Madison Square Garden single game record.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks Insider: Bargnani future still uncertain (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 06:36:17 GMT)
    Knicks forward Metta World Peace dressed for Friday’s game against the Bobcats after he had a fifth blood-spinning procedure on his troublesome left knee on Monday.    

  • [New York Daily News] As Bobcats’ aide, grumpy Ewing slow to praise new Knick scoring king (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 06:35:23 GMT)
    Patrick Ewing stood against a wall at the Garden, a seven-foot giant displeased about what he had just seen. Carmelo Anthony had just torched the Charlotte Bobcats for a Knicks-record 62 points in a 125-96 win, and Ewing was stewing.    

  • [New York Post] Woodson: We have to wait on Bargnani (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 05:59:30 -0500)
    Mike Woodson shed little light on the Andrea Bargnani timetable and wouldn't guarantee when or if he will be back this season. The plan is for Bargnani to rehab for…

  • [New York Post] Knicks teammates in awe of Melo’s big night (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 00:15:05 -0500)
    The Knicks' locker room, so often gloomy and morose, was full of jokes and giddiness. As reporters stepped in, Iman Shumpert shouted, "Between me and Melo, we had 66 points.''…

  • [New York Post] Melo channels Ali to make history (Sat, 25 Jan 2014 00:07:13 -0500)
    It started when he woke up Friday morning and noticed he felt different: He felt confident, focused, determined. From the morning shoot-around to his arrival at the Garden for Friday…

  • 75 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.01.25)

    1. Kikuchiyo

      I’m just glad that, because of Melo’s game, we’ll always have some memorable images of Amar’e in his Marvin Gaye phase.

      In all seriousness, I love Amar’e’s egoless enthusiasm, even as a besuited bench player.

    2. johnno

      It cracks me up that I’ve actually heard some people criticizing Melofor zero assists(while they conveniently ignore zero turnovers). Setting aside the fact that his teammates bricked at least 4 or 5 wide open shots that would have been assists, what would be the story line if LeBron, Durant, Kobe or Harden had put up the same numbers (although each of them probably would have been gifted with 6 or 8 additional foul shots so they would have scored more)? On a night when his teammates’ shots weren’t falling, he took thesc scoring load on himself! All kidding aside, when a world class athlete is completely “in the zone,” it really is a thing of beauty to watch. Everything Melo did last night looked effortless. Amazing.

    3. lavor postell

      It’s kind of amazing the kind of shit that Melo gets and it’s always focused on what he doesn’t do or can’t do. First off the guy put up 62 last night on 35 shots. Who gives a fuck if he didn’t pass the ball? Was anybody else on the team scoring with that efficiency that effortlessly? No. Melo is not a Lebron, Durant, Duncan, Dirk or a handful of other guys that will ultimately be top-20 players in the history of the game. That’s not a crime.

      He is a versatile scoring machine who rebounds extremely well and has demonstrated an improvement in his defensive capabilities this season, while carrying the majority of the offensive load for this team. I wasn’t really a huge Melo fan when he was in Denver and everything we gave up in the trade to get him certainly hurt, but the guy has been a warrior for us and given all he has. He seems to have matured a lot both on the floor and off of it in his time in New York and has definitely changed my opinion of him drastically in his time here. He’s not worth the megamax, but I’d love to re-sign Melo for a fair value, build a team around him and compete for the rest of his career as a Knick.

    4. d-mar

      Lakers come in tomorrow on the 7th game of a 7 game road trip and have lost 9 of their last 11 games. Normally I’d think we have a pretty good chance to win, but unfortunately it’s a day game, so there’s no hope at all.

      Take the Lakers and the points.

    5. DRed

      Normally I’d think we have a pretty good chance to win, but unfortunately it’s a day game, so there’s no hope at all.

      Take the Lakers and the points.

      You are underestimating the power of Not Bargnani.

    6. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      No one should care about assists when he’s shooting .743 eFG% on 49 USG%. Those are video game numbers, right there. Anyone who claims that he should have passed more is out of their mind.

      That said, given the shot chart, I wouldn’t expect that kind of dominance to happen ever again. Lots of mid-range jumpers finding net. I wouldn’t call it luck, but I’d say that it was an unlikely game.

    7. DRed

      The crazy thing about Melo’s game last night was that I wasn’t even a little bit surprised when he hit that preposterous three at the buzzer going into the half.

    8. johnno

      One thing that I never hear anyone mention(other than Bill Simmons, who marvels at it) is how quickly Melo can catch and shoot a basketball. When he is in sync, the ball is in and out of his hands almost instantaneously. He gets his shot off before most defenders can even react. I’d be curious to know if there are any stats available that measure it but, if he doesn’t have the quickest release in the NBA, I’d be stunned if he isn’t at least top 5.

    9. d-mar

      @8 Steph Curry has the quickest release I’ve ever seen (and I still can’t believe we missed out on him by one stinking draft pick and ended up with Jordan Hill, I will never get over that)

    10. Brian Cronin

      One of the drawbacks of the whole Grantland/Dr. V controversy is that Bill Simmons seems to be a little more reserved on Twitter since that thing blew up (only linking to new BS reports), and because of that, he didn’t even comment on the Melo game. Too bad, as you know he loved it.

    11. ephus

      http://nyti.ms/1jOZPk1

      As I’ve been saying, welcome to the 1985 Knicks. Melo = Bernard. Team made second round of ECF and seemed to be on the upswing. Supporting cast largely the same as prior year, but injuries intruded.

      I’m just glad the Kings have moved to Sacramento.

    12. yellowboy90

      I still wonder why he doesn’t get the foul call on his 3s when a defender runs under him because he shoots it so quickly. He is then forced to push off of the defender when he comes down. He did get one call on a three, which was a gift, but refs are supposed to be calling it when a player run under a jump shooter and are not for Melo.

    13. johnno

      @11 — OK, I’ll bite. Steph Curry is “awesome at basketball.” Melo is “awesome at basketball.” Jordan Hill is a nice role player (admittedly better than I thought he would be) but he is far from awesome. When you cite stats that “prove” that he is awesome, you completely undermine the credibility/relevance of the stats. Hill is not a difference maker. If someone like Melo or Curry gets hurt, the team suffers dramatically. When someone like Hill gets hurt, the team plugs someone else in and barely misses a beat. (In other words, the same debate as the one about Tiago Splitter a week or two ago.)

    14. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      What makes you think that Hill is not a difference maker when he pulls down DOUBLE the number of ORB as the average PF? Because Sportscenter doesn’t give him enough burn?

      Are we really using the uber-deep Spurs as an example of why a player isn’t that valuable? Gregg Popovich is a goddamn genius. They have a backup big 3 (Splitter, Green, Leonard) for when their Big 3 retires/moves on. I mean, seriously: What are you talking about?

      The dude is second in the league in ORB% and sixth in TRB%, and is scoring at 57 TS% with 18 USG%. How is that not an exceptional basketball player?

      Did you see that “difference maker” Kyrie Irving is an all-star starter this year? Do you think his amazing 52 TS% or 47% eFG got him there? Or maybe it’s his multi-million dollar sneaker campaigns and high scoring totals?

      Seriously, this whole “difference maker” thing is a load of bullshit. You can’t just say, “He’s a difference maker,” and ignore the stats. Jordan Hill, by definition of “difference,” makes a fucking difference. To the tune of DOUBLE THE OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS AT HIS POSITION.

      How is that not a difference?

    15. Robtachi

      It’s amazing to me how heavily criticized Melo is for things he doesn’t do well, despite the many things he does do well. I think we all universally love Bernard King, but on a Per-36 basis, during their respective times with the Knicks – King played 206 games over 4 seasons, Melo is at 186 over 4 – they are pretty damn similar with a couple of small, yet key differences. For one, Bernard King’s efficiency was ludicrous for a guy with a usage over 30. His TS% is MUCH better than Melo’s, though he never took 3s. As good as Melo is at it, Bernard was the superior scorer, more efficiently reaching higher totals on lower usage. Based on DRtg, BK was also a better defender.

      But I was pretty surprised to see Melo has him beat in most other areas. He’s a significantly better rebounder, has slightly better assist numbers, gets more blocks and turns the ball over significantly less than King did while using more possessions.

      I’m not using this space to argue Melo > King. Not never ever. But maybe, just maybe, we should think twice about being so critical of the guy’s non-scoring “inadequacies” when he actually does several of those things better than one of our all-time favorites.

    16. Robtachi

      Apologies, those are not based solely on Per-36, there are some percentages (AST%, TOV%, etc.) in there too.

    17. Robtachi

      Another example: we all look back fondly on Spree, but the fact is, statistically speaking (and across all types, advanced and dinosauric) Melo is the far superior player. Is he worth $130 million for what will not be the 5 best years of his career? Of course not. But Carmelo Anthony is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing, so let’s at least enjoy that a little more instead of claiming he is unworthy of the same appreciation we show guys like Sprewell and King.

    18. johnno

      Since you want to rehash the Splitter argument, let’s start with what we agree on — Popovich is probably the smartest coach in the NBA. I think that you would also agree that he is great at saving his older player’s legs for the playoffs. So, if he’s got a great younger player in Splitter and he is so intent on saving Duncan for the playoffs, why does a genius like Pop play Splitter a mere 20 minutes a game and Duncan 30? Could it possibly be that Pop is smart enough to realize that Splitter doesn’t deserve to play starter’s minutes and that his limited role is due to his limitations as a player? Re: Hill — the Lakers stink. They sure could use an “awesome” power forward, yet they play Hill 18 minutes a game? Why is that? Could it be that the coaches realize that, even though he puts up some good numbers on a per minute basis, he is a very limited player who can’t handle an expanded role? I know that a lot of people think that D’Antonio can’t coach but I’m pretty sure that he has forgotten more about basketball than you and I combined will ever know.

    19. flossy

      They have a backup big 3 (Splitter, Green, Leonard) for when their Big 3 retires/moves on.

      Wow. Why does the rest of the league even bother? Tiago Splitter, Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard are gonna have this shit on lock for the next decade.

    20. DRed

      Johnno, coaches do stupid shit all the time. Mike Woodson knows a lot more about basketball than me and he gave Bargnani the second most minutes on the team.

    21. lavor postell

      Wow. Why does the rest of the league even bother? Tiago Splitter, Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard are gonna have this shit on lock for the next decade.

      lmao

    22. johnno

      Good point. If there is a single minute in the game tomorrow when Hill looks like the best (or even one of the best) players on the court, I’ll come on here and eat crow. I doubt that it wil happen, but you never know…

    23. ephus

      On the comparison of Melo to Bernard, Melo has a 3 point shot and Bernard did not. On the other hand, Bernard was one of the most fearsome finishers above the rim, while Melo is not. They have (to my eye) similar mid-range games.

    24. Kahnzy

      @15

      Is this the point where you tell us if you were the Knicks GM you’d trade Melo for Hill straight up?

    25. flossy

      I think Jordan Hill has turned out okay–solid bench big man at worst, could probably stand to get more minutes. But to imply that missing out on freakin’ Steph Curry was anything less than tragic because Jordan Hill is like so awesome, you guys, look at that OReb%… is just asinine.

    26. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      “Wow. Why does the rest of the league even bother? Tiago Splitter, Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard are gonna have this shit on lock for the next decade.”

      Wait, wait, wait.

      You’re going to talk shit on two guys (Green and Leonard) who averaged 36.9 and 31.9 MPG on a team that lost the NBA finals in 7 games? And the third, who had an ankle injury in the first round but who played the 4th most minutes during the regular season? You know that Danny Green led the Spurs in minutes played last year, right? And Leonard averaged 2nd most on the team in the games he played in? You do realize that that was a 58-win team, right? You do realize how good those players are, right?

    27. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      I’d rather have Curry. But they didn’t draft Tristan Thompson or Anthony Bennett after Curry. They drafted a player who has produced like an all-star over his last 1200 minutes. The real idiocy is that they traded him away before giving him any serious playing time.

    28. Frank

      You’re going to talk shit on two guys (Green and Leonard) who averaged 36.9 and 31.9 MPG on a team that lost the NBA finals in 7 games? And the third, who had an ankle injury in the first round but who played the 4th most minutes during the regular season? You know that Danny Green led the Spurs in minutes played last year, right? And Leonard averaged 2nd most on the team in the games he played in? You do realize that that was a 58-win team, right? You do realize how good those players are, right?

      Seriously, imagine if people talked shit about Larry Hughes, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, and Drew Gooden who averaged the most minutes after Lebron on a team that lost to the Spurs in the NBA finals in 2006. Naturally those three completely tore up the league after Lebron left. You do realize how good those players are, right?

    29. Frank

      Meanwhile, writing that snarky response to THCJ (sorry by the way, couldn’t resist) made me look at the teams that Lebron played on during his Cleveland career. Wow those were some mismatched God-awful teams other than him. Larry Hughes? Daniel Gibson? Mo Williams? Donyell Marshall? Zendon Hamilton? No wonder he left!

    30. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      You are willfully ignorant, Frank.

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2007.html#playoffs_advanced::10

      You know why the Cavs were so good that year? Rebounding. They were basically a push when it came to eFG% (.484 to .480) but had about 25% more ORB than they let their opponents get, to the margin of about +2.5 per game. They outscored their opponents by about only 3.8 PPG, so I’d say that ORB margin was pretty fucking significant.

      You know what’s weird about that Cavs team? They had three “no-name” players who were beasts on the offensive boards. Drew Gooden, Ilgauskas and Varejao had phenomenal years doing the dirty work, and the Cavs succeeded because of it. Was LeBron the best player on the team? Absolutely yes. Did he single-handedly propel the Cavs to the Finals? Fuck no.

      I know that it’s hard to imagine that players might be valuable without ASG appearances and All-NBA honors, but I assure you: they can be. Willful ignorance. Watch the Finals highlights from last year and you will see Kawhi Leonard playing like a superstar.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRFbug05aFg

      But no, a 6’7″ SF putting up 22 and 11 against the best team in the league is a joke, right?

      I really can’t believe how stupid some people on this board continue to be.

    31. Frank

      Lol I’m not arguing about rebounding, just your post that just because those guys played lots of minutes for a good spurs team that they should somehow be considered in the same conversation as Duncan, ginobili, and Parker. A backup big 3? That’s literally one of the most ridiculous things ever if you are suggesting those three could ever form the backbone of what’s been a decade+ long dynasty.

      The beauty of Duncan/Ginobili/Parker is that not only are they awesome but they complement each other so well. Each could be THE MAN but none of them really care that much about it. They’ve had countless teammates that have come and gone who have similarly seen their relevance vanish once they left the Spurs. The greatness of the spurs goes on and on with the only constants beings those 3 guys and Pop.

    32. Frank

      Btw this is a serious question. Even in Lebron’s best years his best WP numbers have been in the high teens in wins produced. Yet the cavs went from 61 wins to 19 wins when he left (-42 wins). How does WOW reconcile that?

    33. nicos

      The Cavs made the finals that year because the rest of the East sucked. They better in each of the next two years when they ranked 12 and 22nd in ORB%- winning 66 and 61 games. You know who leads the league in offensive rebounding this year? The 17-26 WoW approved Detriot Pistons. The Miami team that won the last two championships has been an awful rebounding team. I’m not saying offensive rebounds don’t have value, cause obviously they do but if you think the Cavs sustained success during LBJ’s last few years there was because of offensive rebounding I’d say you’re sorely mistaken. I’d look at defensive fg% where they ranked 7, 10 (not surprisingly the year they only won 45 games), 2nd, and 3rd. Of course, there’s no handy individual box score stat for WoW to plug for that so let’s just ignore it, shall we?

    34. ephus

      Can we all agree that throwing $10 million at Larry Hughes and $5 million at Eric Snow was a hindrance that Lebron overcame?

    35. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      nicos,

      You really, really, really need to read Basketball on Paper. If you think that team ORB% is not important to a team’s success, you are totally fucking lost when it comes to winning in the NBA.

      Frank,

      The 2009-10 and 2010-11 Cavs are not just separated by the loss of LeBron.

      -3000 LeBron
      +550 Hickson
      +800 Gibson
      +2100 Sessions
      +1000 Jameson
      -1500 West
      -1300 Ilgauskas
      +200 Parker
      +1000 Gee
      +1000 Eyenga
      -300 Moon
      +1200 Hollins
      +700 Samuels
      -1200 O’Neal

      That’s just a sampling of the changes in minutes from year to year. Do you really want to stand behind your assumption that WP48 failed to explain why the Cavs lost 40 more games than they did the year prior? Come the fuck on.

    36. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      “The Cavs made the finals that year because the rest of the East sucked.”

      The Cavs were 23-7 against the West that year, and 38-14 against the East. That means they actually were better against the non-sucky conference.

      BZZZT, try again.

    37. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      nicos,

      Are you really using FG% in an argument on this website? Delete your account.

    38. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      And wait, are you arguing that the Cavs’ excellent defensive eFG% should be attributed to LeBron? Or his underrated supporting cast?

    39. nicos

      As I said, it’s important but claiming that Cleveland’s success was based around offensive rebounding doesn’t hold water- they were a better offensive rebounding team the next year when they only won 45 games and got knocked out in the second round and they were much worse the next two seasons when they won 66 and 61 games. There are 4 factors (well 8 really, 4 offensive, 4 defensive), not one.

    40. nicos

      Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass
      January 25, 2014 at 11:06 pm
      And wait, are you arguing that the Cavs’ excellent defensive eFG% should be attributed to LeBron? Or his underrated supporting cast?

      Where did I say that their success was solely due to LBJ? During that run over LBJ’s last 4 years, they had two great offensive rebounding years, one fairly average one, and one fairly poor one and their best regular seasons coincided with their worst offensive rebounding. Their defensive efg% was much more consistent and I think for that particular team, a greater reason for their success. Do you think the team that reached the finals was the best of those teams? I tend to think they were better in each of their last two seasons but ran up against stiffer competition. You made the case their success in that season was due to offensive rebounding and I disagree- and if you want to ban me from the board for forgetting to put the e in efg% have at it.

    41. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      Right. And I’m telling you that in their Finals year, their eFG% for and against was basically equal. Their ORB% distinguished them, and that was not because of LeBron alone. If you want to pull a jon abbey and argue that LeBron created a disproportionate number of ORB attempts, be my guest.

    42. BigBlueAL

      The last 2 seasons the Miami Heat were 18th and 26th in offensive reb %. The Spurs last season were 29th in offensive reb %.

      The season the Cavs lost to the Spurs in the NBA Finals the Spurs were 27th in offensive reb %. The Cavs were 3rd so obviously it was a big part of their success but offensive reb in general sure doesnt seem to be that important considering how bad the Heat and Spurs were at it last season. It sure isnt helping the Pistons much this season despite being the best team in the NBA at grabbing them. The Heat currently are dead last in the NBA in offensive reb %, the Spurs are 25th. Looking at the current top 10 teams in offensive reb % besides the Blazers and Thunder (2nd and 9th) the other 8 teams are all right around .500 or well below it (Pistons and Cavs).

      Again hell if you can grab offensive rebs certainly grab them and it can obviously only help but it certainly doesnt seem to be a top priority currently of most of the best teams in the NBA.

    43. nicos

      Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass
      January 25, 2014 at 10:59 pm
      “The Cavs made the finals that year because the rest of the East sucked.”

      The Cavs were 23-7 against the West that year, and 38-14 against the East. That means they actually were better against the non-sucky conference.

      BZZZT, try again.

      Come on- the best record in the East was the Pistons at 53-29; no one else besides the Cavs had 50 wins. Detroit was a few years removed from their championship years but still solid, everyone else was pretty mediocre. The next year the Cavs took a really good Championship Celtics team to 7 games. The year after they got beat by an Orlando team that shot really well from three and had the best interior defender in the league. Then they lost to the C’s again. My point is that team that made the finals may not have been their best team during LBJ’s run. Certainly their offensive rebounding helped that year but they were 2nd in the league in DRB%, 4th in offensive TOV%, and 5th in defensive TOV% as well. Don’t you think that decisively winning the turnover battle on both ends (and limiting teams to just one shot) might have had as big an impact as their work on the offensive glass? It certainly created plenty of extra possessions, no? I’m sure you can find teams that were truly distinguished by their work on the offensive boards, I just don’t think that Cavs team was one of them- they weren’t a great offensive team but they controlled the glass on BOTH ends and forced a lot more turnovers than they committed.

    44. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      That’s not the point of this argument. Someone said that LeBron’s teams were filled with shitty players and, Larry Hughes aside, they weren’t.

    45. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      BigBlueAl,

      I’m not saying that ORB% is the only thing that wins games. I’m saying that, all else being equal, it can be the thing that distinguishes your team from the pack. For that championship contender, it was. And LeBron, though responsible for most of that team’s wins, was not responsible for his teammates’ greatest strength.

      This is an argument about how unsung players can contribute to wins in big ways. The Spurs are exactly the same way. Leonard, Green and Splitter are all ridiculously productive, and the Spurs will continue to win 50 games a year so long as Popovich & co. keep drafting guys who don’t light up the PPG column but do the things that win ballgames, like score well, create possessions and not turning the ball over.

    46. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      And how in the heck did Terrence Ross put up 51 last night? He’s never even been an All-Star!

    47. johnno

      Jason Kidd must be almost as dumb as the rest of us. Reggie Evans has career rebounding numbers that are very similar to Jordan Hill’s over the best stretch of his career. He’s got a guy who is “awesome at basketball” sitting on his bench and he hardly plays him. Idiot. For two years, Steve Novak was one of the best long range shooters in the world. Since demonstrating one elite skill in a limited role makes a player “awesome at basketball,” I now know why the Knicks stink — they gave away their most awesome player. And, just to show how dumb I was until being enlightened on this site, until last night, I thought that LeBron was the reason that the Cavs were so good. I now realize that it was West, Ilgauskas and O’Neal’s bloated carcass that carried his sorry ass. Lucky for him he’s got Anderson and Cole to carry him in Miami.

    48. flossy

      You’re going to talk shit on two guys (Green and Leonard) who averaged 36.9 and 31.9 MPG on a team that lost the NBA finals in 7 games? And the third, who had an ankle injury in the first round but who played the 4th most minutes during the regular season? You know that Danny Green led the Spurs in minutes played last year, right? And Leonard averaged 2nd most on the team in the games he played in? You do realize that that was a 58-win team, right? You do realize how good those players are, right?

      It is downright laughable to assume that Splitter, Green and Leonard would play as well as they have without Duncan, Parker and Manu. They are great… role players. Three players with usage rates of 18%, 16% and 16% do not a “big 3″ make. They’re guys you love to have on a team with three HoF shot creators. On their own? Please.

    49. flossy

      Delete your account.

      Wow, so as soon as one person acknowledges you were right to be pessimistic about the Knicks, you feel entitled to be an asshole? Get over yourself!

    50. johnno

      By the way, I am not arguing that role players are unimportant or that advanced stats are useless. However, even the smartest guys in the sport realize that “difference makers” are what make a team a contender. Daryl Morey, one of the advanced stat pioneers — did he spend years building a team around the Jordan Hills of the world, or did he spend years accumulating assets to acquire Harden and Howard? The Thunder — are they built around role players or around two transcendent stars? Did Pat Riley move heaven and earth to keep Udonis Haslem or to acquire the Big 3? The Spurs — are they built around Tiago Splitter and Danny Green or around 3 Hall of Famers? The Lakers and Celtics — have they EVER won anything without a handful of Hall of Famers on their roster? I guess it comes down to your definition of “awesome.” Compared to everyone in the D-League, I guess Jordan Hill is awesome. Compared to any one of maybe 100-150 guys currently in the NBA, no, he is not awesome.

    51. flossy

      This is an argument about how unsung players can contribute to wins in big ways. The Spurs are exactly the same way. Leonard, Green and Splitter are all ridiculously productive, and the Spurs will continue to win 50 games a year so long as Popovich & co. keep drafting guys who don’t light up the PPG column but do the things that win ballgames, like score well, create possessions and not turning the ball over.

      Uh… Have you ever heard of Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili or Tony Parker? You cannot possibly believe the Spurs have mostly been successful because they stock up on low-usage role players who rebound well for their position, can you? They have 3 surefire Hall of Fame players who are capable of carrying their offense so that the WoW darlings don’t have to. I assure you that Popovich is not under the impression that Danny Green is ready to up his usage by 10 percentage points and triple his AST%, which is what he’d have to do to replace Manu. Yeah, it’s great to have the Kawhi Leonards of the world when you already have the Tony Parkers. But not the other way around. It’s great to have the Jordan Hills when you already have a Steph Curry, but you’re delusional if you think the former (who, FWIW, has been -3.5 per 100 possessions for his career) is even remotely as valuable as the latter.

    52. Z-man

      The best counter-argument to THCJ is made by flossy in @50. Low-usage players can be highly valuable, but at some point, you can’t win big without either reasonably efficient high-usage shot creators or an insanely rare balance of efficient players with great chemistry and brilliant rebounding and defense (e.g. the Billups-Wallace-Wallace-Rip-Prince Pistons.) Even that team had 3 guys who could create shots at a high volume in situations: Billups, Rasheed and Rip.

      On that note, does anyone other than me suspect that Ben Wallace was a PED freak?

    53. Z-man

      PS, Jowles, is your profanity and insult-laced commentary on this thread a predictable reversion back to your career stats?

    54. Z-man

      I should also mention that I agree with Jowles that Leonard is a monster player who can be a “big 3″ type. The other 2, not so much.

    55. Kahnzy

      I thought that LeBron was the reason that the Cavs were so good. I now realize that it was West, Ilgauskas and O’Neal’s bloated carcass that carried his sorry ass. Lucky for him he’s got Anderson and Cole to carry him in Miami.

      This gave me a good laugh.

    56. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      Chris Anderson is one of the big reasons the Heat won it all last year. He had a .807 eFG% and led the league in WS/48 during the postseason. It doesn’t matter that you’re playing 15 minutes a game when those minutes are that productive.

      Also, role player: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm_8irPsmXc

    57. Z-man

      Re: Melo vs. King, having watched them both, I would say that King was a much more consistent scorer. There were very few 9-25 shooting performances, never a sense that he was “hot” or “cold” on a given night. Melo does the spinning baseline fadeaway jumper, but I never feel that it’s a good shot when I see it, even though it goes in a lot. With King, it ws truly surprising when he missed that shot.

      Another difference was the on-court demeanor. King had a ferocious game face, a scowl that was truly intimidating in its intensity. Melo’s grin is almost goofy in comparison.

      It could be argued that Melo is the better all-around player, but I would choose an in-his-prime King over him in a heartbeat.

    58. lavor postell

      It does matter if you’re playing that amount of minutes because other players have to fill up for the remaining amount of time productively. The reason why players like Birdman and Novak are at best 15-20 minute players isn’t because all their coaches are dumb and fail to recognize their brilliance, but because their brilliance can only be maximized in specific lineups and matchups that can help hide their flaws.

      Birdman is a great complementary player who thrives off of penetration, because he is the recipient often of an easy rim attempt as the roll man off of pNr or because he is left unchecked on the boards as his man rotates over to contest shots and restrict penetration. That’s not a criticism of his game, but the simple reality of what his game is. Birdman is also effective defensively as a weakside shot blocker, but he’s not exactly an elite 1-on-1 defender and certainly can be taken advantage of in the post.

      Novak is an unbelievably effective perimeter shooter that spaces the floor because the defense must account for him at all times. However as we saw in the playoffs, his effectiveness can be restricted because his game is limited to spot up shooting and if a defender can close out hard at him, he can’t put the ball on the deck and get to the rim. This is why I thought if Bargnani could shoot around 37% from distance he would be a more valuable piece, which I was completely and utterly wrong about. Novak shot 44.4% from three in the playoffs last year, but only put up 9 attempts. He didn’t get a lot of minutes, but that is because he was not able to get off enough threes in his minutes be a positive and offset his poor defense and rebounding. His 3PAr and 3PA/36 dropped from .814 and 8.4 respectively to .692 and 6.5 in the playoffs.

      Certain players need to have their minutes restricted and played in specific lineups in order to maximize their skills, which is why Pop is amazing.

    59. Z-man

      Again, I agreed on Leonard. Re: Danny Green, he made a bunch of 3’s. He also missed 2 layups and got lucky that the rebounds fell back into his hands, and had one layup blocked that lead to a 2nd opportunity 3. Using this clip to support the case for him a potential big-3 player, especially with his whopping 554 TS% this year on 15% usage (including 41% from 2-pt range) in 22 mpg is dumb.

      I am waiting for the “Tiago Splitter is the next Tim Duncan” highlight reel.

    60. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      I’m not going to compare Splitter to the 2003 version of Duncan, but Duncan doesn’t play like the greatest PF of all-time anymore. He’s still good, but Splitter is very, very productive when he’s not injured.

    61. Owen

      George Hill is an interesting case, he hasn’t struggled without the big three.

      I think an important takeaway from the WOW is that role players are important and that there is a lot more variation in their performance than the average fan realizes. And sometimes those role players are good enough to be stars in their own right.

    62. Z-man

      Re; Duncan, this was not true last year. Duncan’s numbers last year were very consistent with his 2005-2007 numbers. He led the league in defensive rating. He was in the MVP discussion. The biggest (only) difference was that he played 8-10 less mpg than in his prime. Look carefully at their stats last year. Grandpa Timmy ourscored, outrebounded, and outdefended Splitter. While he shot at a lower TS%, he had a usage of 28% vs 18% for Splitter. And Splitter is 28 years old, not some up-and-coming star.

      So if you want to argue that Splitter and Green are solid and valuable players and that Pop has a great eye for players that fit his team’s needs and maximizes their value, fine. But to say “they have a backup Big 3 for when their Big 3 retires” is a joke.

    63. Z-man

      I love George Hill’s game. He is a super-smart and disciplined player, which I’m sure is why Pop loved him.

      On the other hand, WoW loved DeJuan Blair, and Pop soured on him, probably because Blair in NOT a super-smart and disciplined player.

      Pop values basketball IQ more than anything (as opposed to, say, Isiah, who values physical talent/potential…Steph, Curry, Zach, Jamal, etc.) Which is why it was shocking that Pop did not have Duncan on the floor at the end of game 6.

    64. Nick C.

      What would the take on Parker or Ginobli have been their first year or two in the league or Paul George? I’m not sure main cog of a contender would have been it.

    65. ruruland

      The last time Melo played Pringles’ Lakers at the Garden, he had 30 points in 23 minutes before Dwight took him out.
      Melo was coming off a 45 point game in Brooklyn.
      LA gives up the second most points in the NBA, combining atrocious defense with MDA’s 7SOL pace.

      The Lakers will start Ryan Kelly at the 4 and Wesley Johnson at the 3, neither have a prayer of guarding Melo. In fact, I would say the Lakers trot out the most favorable individual match-up Melo’s had all season .

      Melo normally stays locked in for awhile, I think he and the Knicks have their legs back after that 4-in-5, and facing MDA at home seems to get Melo going a bit more than usual. Kobe being the building coming off that 62 point game should help, too.

      When you combine all of those factors, Melo may have a crack at joining his idol with a b2b 50 point game.

      Not only that, I think the record for b2b scoring (excluding Wilt) could also be challenged. I don’t see MDA doubling Melo a ton, but if he does then think its likely Knicks shooters keep rolling.

      115-120 points might be the floor this afternoon.

    66. johnno

      It is amazing to me that someone can, with a straight face, say that Chris Anderson led the playoffs in WS/48 and STILL believe that WS/48 is a credible stat. So, I guess the tatted one DID carry LeBron’s sorry ass. Then again, didn’t the same guy last year argue that Drummond had a better rookie year than Wilt because of WS/48?

    67. Bruno Almeida

      oh great, a marvelous performance from Melo and the fanboyism is back again, after two straight weeks of “tear this team down, it’s terrible”.

      that was one of the best individual performances I’ve ever seen in my life, but the reactions to it, both positive and negative, show exactly how traumatized and delusional the Knicks fan base is.

    68. flossy

      LOL. The eye test is for idiots, and if you don’t believe Danny Green is a star in the making, here’s a YouTube to prove it!

    69. johnno

      CJ1N. – please don’t read this post. It is meant for everyone but you. Good? Good.
      Pssst, guys — you know what he’s doing, right? He’s going to keep saying more and more preposterous things until we all realize that he’s yanking our chains. We have two choices, we can ignore him, or we can keep egging him on to see just how ludicrous he will be. I think that it will be fun to egg him on. Like, if he says that we should read Basketball on Paper, someone should say, “Basketball is played on a court not on paper,” so that he’ll say, “Come out of your cave you stupid troglodyte! Learn some advanced analyticals you f-in moron!” I’m waiting for some guy to come out of the D-League and, in 10 seconds of garbage time, steal the ball, hit a 3 pointer and get fouled, hit the foul shot and then block a shot to end the game. The challenge will be to get him to claim that, before his univac computer blew a vacuum tube, it calculated the guy’s WS/48 to be infinity, thereby proving that he is the greatest player who ever lived. I think that we can do it! By the way, how insufferable is he going to be if Jordan Hill torches th Knicks today?

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