Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, October 25, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.01.24)

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Opening tip: Moving on without Bargs (Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:00:42 EDT)
    The hits just keep coming for the New York Knicks. Already decimated by frontcourt injuries, the Knicks must move forward without Andrea Bargnani. Bargnani tore a ligament in his left elbow on Wednesday night and is out indefinitely. Mike Woodson already tended to go with a more defensive-oriented lineup over using Bargnani, especially in crunch time. And using Carmelo Anthony at power forward typically yields better matchups with Tyson Chandler at center.

  • [New York Post] Carmelo voted to All-Star Team for sixth straight time (Fri, 24 Jan 2014 02:14:35 -0500)
    One of the few bright spots in a bleak Knicks season will be headed to the Big Easy in three weeks. Based on voting by the fans, The NBA announced…

  • [New York Times] Aldridge Scores 44, Blazers Beat Nuggets 110-105 (Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:52:09 GMT)
    LaMarcus Aldridge had a career-high 44 points and 13 rebounds, and the Portland Trail Blazers rallied for a 110-105 victory over the Denver Nuggets on Thursday night.    

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Real Madrid’s Basektball Win Streak Ends (Fri, 24 Jan 2014 05:23:43 GMT)
    Host CSKA Moscow snapped Real Madrid’s 31-game winning streak with an 85-71 victory in a clash between European heavyweights.    

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Bosh’s 31 Lead Heat Over Lakers (Fri, 24 Jan 2014 05:14:13 GMT)
    Chris Bosh scored 31 points, LeBron James added 27 points and 13 rebounds, and the Miami Heat never trailed in a 109-102 home victory over the Los Angeles Lakers.    

  • [New York Times] Bosh’s 31 Lead Heat Over Lakers (Fri, 24 Jan 2014 04:43:09 GMT)
    Chris Bosh scored 31 points, LeBron James added 27 points and 13 rebounds, and the Miami Heat never trailed in a 109-102 home victory over the Los Angeles Lakers.    

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Curry and Irving Among N.B.A. All-Stars (Fri, 24 Jan 2014 04:22:30 GMT)
    Stephen Curry and Kevin Love in the West, and Paul George and Kyrie Irving in the East, were voted N.B.A. All-Stars for the first time.    

  • [New York Times] Bargnani’s Injury Adds to Knicks’ Frustration (Fri, 24 Jan 2014 03:42:55 GMT)
    The Knicks’ Andrea Bargnani has been sidelined indefinitely with an elbow injury, and Coach Mike Woodson suggested that the news media is manufacturing controversy.    

  • [New York Times] Curry and Irving Among N.B.A. All-Stars (Fri, 24 Jan 2014 02:07:24 GMT)
    Stephen Curry and Kevin Love in the West, and Paul George and Kyrie Irving in the East, were voted N.B.A. All-Stars for the first time.    

  • [New York Daily News] Raissman: Clyde heating up at Garden (Fri, 24 Jan 2014 03:36:59 GMT)
    Anyone wondering the last time Walt (Clyde) Frazier actually got angry behind a microphone ? really lost it ? must go back to May of 1992. The Knicks had just eliminated Detroit, 94-87, in Game 5 of a first-round playoff series.    

  • [New York Daily News] Bargnani out indefinitely with torn ligament in left elbow (Fri, 24 Jan 2014 03:14:25 GMT)
    Andrea Bargnani’s crash landing on a failed dunk attempt Wednesday night was an instant hit across the Internet, but one day later it became just another major hit in a disastrous season filled with them for the Knicks.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ Anthony makes 9th All-Star team, injured Kobe voted in (Fri, 24 Jan 2014 01:12:51 GMT)
    Stephen Curry, Kevin Love, Paul George and Kyrie Irving were voted NBA All-Stars Thursday, putting four first-time starters in the Feb. 16 game in New Orleans.    

  • 53 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.01.24)

    1. Frank O.

      um, Bargs is out. um, yay…

      give the young bigs some reps.
      now, please bench Ray. it amazes me he gets double digit shots.

    2. Frank O.

      and please recognize i wasn’t wishing bad on Bargs. i just think this may actually help the Knicks see more of Tyler and Aldrich.

      By the way, props to ruru for giving props to jowls for seeming to have pegged this year. This blog can seem a bit like a cage match with the various ideologies and approaches.
      But this was gracious.

      I confess I was willing to see the potential benefits of Bargs and I’m not so sure I was right, although I think he isn’t the basis of this failure. That inauspicious award goes to Ray Felton and JR Smith. Both are low efficiency players, each irresponsible in their own ways, and it was there for all eyes to see.
      Next is Woodson, decent guard play would cover some of his mistakes, poor guard play exploits his “philosophy.”

    3. d-mar

      I’m kind of shocked we’re 4 1/2 point favorites tonight over the Bobcats, Vegas must know something we don’t.

    4. Frank

      I’m kind of shocked we’re 4 1/2 point favorites tonight over the Bobcats, Vegas must know something we don’t.

      honestly they are probably taking into account that Bargnani is out and we’re going to actually play the lineup that works.

    5. EB

      honestly they are probably taking into account that Bargnani is out and we’re going to actually play the lineup that works.

      Will we actually use a 2 pg lineup this time? Should I start paying attention again? Will Tyler or Aldrich get some spin?

    6. Brian Cronin

      They sort of have to play a two point guard lineup.

      The funny thing is that Udrih might now become a bigger part of the rotation, nullifying his reasons for wanting to be traded.

    7. DRed

      I am very, very interested in seeing who plays tonight. I’m also going to be very interested in reading the lamestream media explaining why we’re going to be playing better.

    8. lavor postell

      I am very, very interested in seeing who plays tonight. I’m also going to be very interested in reading the lamestream media explaining why we’re going to be playing better.

      The team banded together after injury struck again robbing them of starting power forward, Andrea Bargnani. When asked why the two point guard lineup was able to turn around the Knicks’ dismal performances Woodson replied, “Pablo’s giving us the lift we need early right now and it’s helping Raymond find his groove again. We’re going to roll with this lineup right now and hopefully we can put together a few wins and climb back up in the standings. That’s all we can focus on for right now and hopefully by the time Andrea gets back we’ll be able to reintegrate him into the lineup and be at full strength heading into the playoffs.”

    9. Frank

      Check out this great stuff from SB Nation about the Spurs’ Hammer Set.
      http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/1/23/5338634/san-antonio-spurs-set-play-baseline-hammer

      Wouldn’t it be great if we used some plays that actually resulted in an open 3, rather than to set up iso elbow or midrange Melo jumpers? What happened to all the double and triple PNRs we saw last year? Or what happened to this play which I don’t think we’ve tried at all this year?

      http://hoopchalk.com/2012/12/10/knicks-shake-up-nuggets-with-double-hand-off-play/

      That Spurs Hammer set seems ideal to get Iman some corner 3’s, get him involved on the offensive side of the ball. Even this year with his overall sub-par offensive play, he’s shooting 43% from the corners- and last year he shot about 43% from the corners also.

    10. johnno

      To those of you who are happy that Bargnani got hurt and are clamoring to see more of the small lineup — maybe I don’t know much about basketball, but who exactly is it that you want to see getting more time? Put another way — with every single guy under 6’8″ on this team being dreadful this year, who exactly is it that is going to be a major plus with more playing time? Each and every one of them is a role player at best. (Yes, I like Hardaway and maybe giving him more of a role will be a scoring plus but let’s be honest, while he can shoot and might someday be a really good all-aroound player, he can’t yet defend, pass or create offense for himself or anyone else.) I realize that people love to bash Bargnani but, unfortunately, a good argument can be made that he has been the Knicks’ second best player this year — which is as good an explanation as any as to why the team stinks.

    11. Frank

      @10 – I think we’d all just like to see the team go back to the lineups that worked so well last year – those with 3 guards on the floor (2 PGs + Shump or JR) and Melo at the 4, with a defensive 5 (Kmart of Tyson) protecting the rim. Who cares if they are role-players if the whole is at least equal to the sum of its parts (unlike the current situation in which the sum is negative)?

    12. KnickfaninNJ

      Johnno, +1

      Bargnani is not the reason for all the losses. Coaching, guard play, team defense all played a much bigger role. I feel very bad for the guy. He worked hard and played a great game against Phillie, got injured being aggressive, he even tore ligaments in his elbow and still made his free throws and everyone’s happy he’s injured. I’m not.

    13. Totes McGoats

      U know what’s rather..odd? Besides me lol. Tyson Chandler and Melo have been putting up career bests in terms of PER as Knicks. Granted, Tyson can play better this season, but that stat just tells me that the teammates..role players are horrible. Melo catches alotta flak..but I think he is undeserving this season. Do you blame the players for not filling their roles at a high level? Or do u blame the coaching on not putting these role players in positions to succeed? If a coaching change is on the horizon, then I wonder how if it really makes Melo want to stay- even if the JVG rumors are accurate. To be honest, I’m leaning more towards moving Melo because I can’t see him taking less to help the team. Why else would he opt out? He can maximize his contract if he does that and re-signs in NY. So..even if the coach is JVG or anyone else that would coach the team closer to a championship berth, I don’t see Melo really wanting to stay. I would love to see him stay and win as a Knick while settling in at PF..but not at 30 mil. He hasn’t won enough to get that.

    14. lavor postell

      I don’t think Bargnani is the reason we have been terrible, but he was never going to be a plus player because of Woodson’s insistence on using him as a 4 in “big” lineups next to Melo. Bargnani should be a 10-15 minute player max used to give Tyson and Melo a rest when they need it. He shouldn’t be a 30+ mpg player who we are running offense through for significant portions of a game. Basically when STAT, Kmart and Bargs are healthy he should be spelling STAT and Kmart on back-to-backs and filling in when we have foul issues or injury trouble. My problem is Woodson force fed him minutes though he basically found ways to justify not giving Copeland minutes in the playoffs last year even though Bargs is just a shitty version of Cope.

    15. johnno

      Are you convinced that the two point guards, Shumpert and JR are suddenly going to break out of the funk that they are in and play like they did last year and that they are suddenly going to magically figure out how to play some semblance of defense? I hope that you are right, but I’m skeptical.

    16. knickster

      Sorry to say this, but Prigione is just a journeyman. He would not get minutes on a contender (remember “Melo Light”/Copeland?).

      Prigione plays like an old man and is only valuable to the Knicks because the team is so bad.

    17. DRed

      I realize that people love to bash Bargnani but, unfortunately, a good argument can be made that he has been the Knicks’ second best player this year — which is as good an explanation as any as to why the team stinks.

      I would love to hear someone argue that a FC with a 10.3 TRB% and a 51 TS% has been anything but a horrible basketball player. The only thing Bargs has been second best at on the Knicks is playing minutes, which is a good explanation as to why we’re so bad.

    18. Frank

      Sorry to say this, but Prigione is just a journeyman. He would not get minutes on a contender (remember “Melo Light”/Copeland?).

      Prigione plays like an old man and is only valuable to the Knicks because the team is so bad.

      Holy cow I think Vinny is back.

    19. DRed

      Seriously, who HAS been the 2nd best Knick this year? Hardaway? Kenyon Martin?

      Interesting question. Tyson, if we’re going on a per minute basis, but he’s missed a ton of games, so I can certainly see you disagreeing with that. Afterwards, it gets dicey. Hardaway doesn’t play much and is essentially Steve Novak with a game in the open court. Kenyon has been hurt a lot and doesn’t rebound much for a big. I think Shump has had a better year than most because of his non-shooting contributions, but I can see why you would point to his shooting. Basically what I’m saying is there aren’t any clear cut candidates. But the answer is definitely not Andrea Bargnani.

    20. Brian Cronin

      I think it’d be Hardaway or K-Mart, presuming we’re not counting Chandler or Prigs due to their small sample sizes.

      If you also think that Hardaway and K-Mart don’t have enough of a sample size, then it’d be Shump.

      Shump is not having a good season, but he’s having a better season than Bargs.

    21. Brian Cronin

      But sure, the fact that Bargs is not far and away the worst player on the team among the players who have actually played really does say something about how bad the team has been this year.

    22. thenamestsam

      Asked his view of Woodson’s defensive system, Smith said: “That’s really not my area of expertise. I’m more of a scoring-type player. I’ll leave that to those guys. Whatever they want to do, it’s OK with me. Just let me know.’’

      What can you do except laugh your head off? JR Smith wouldn’t consider himself an expert on the defensive system that his team has been running for the last 3 years because he’s “more of a socring-type player”. This freaking team man.

    23. lavor postell

      Idk how anybody could argue Tyson “Stonehands” Chandler. There were at least 5 times in the last game against Philly where he seemed to just watch MCW or Evan Turner or James fucking Andersen drive to the rim and and stood by the free throw line watching. I get that our defensive system is completely broken and puts him out of position on many plays, but Chandler is not earning his $14 mill as a defensive stopper by any stretch of imagination. The first two games of the season was a blast from the past, but between breaking his leg and getting his 57th cold/bronchitis of the last year he hasn’t found that form again.

    24. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      Thanks, ruru. I didn’t think they’d be this bad, but I did say that if Chandler got hurt and Bargnani played starter’s minutes in his place, this team would be in the high lottery. Well, Denver would be.

    25. KnickfaninNJ

      Who’s the second best player on the Knicks is a great question. I’d probably go with KMart, but I think Amare should get honorable mention. He was rounding into form and starting to be a big problem for other teams.

    26. Donnie Walsh

      Thanks, ruru. I didn’t think they’d be this bad…

      Maybe some apologies are due to Dogrufus too– he was six months ahead of the curve!

    27. Donnie Walsh

      Who’s the second best player on the Knicks is a great question

      Carmelo Anthony? (Now that Jeremy Tyler is healthy, it’s not even close)

    28. johnno

      You’re all kind of making my point. It’s not like Bargnani is Wally Pip and Lou Gehrig is waiting on the bench saying, “Put me in coach, I’m ready to play.” Replacing Bargnani ‘s minutes with someone who has been playing, and is likely to continue playing, terribly is not going to transform the Knicks into a good team. Unless, of course, Tyler or Aldrich really are players.

    29. chrisk06811

      Sorry to say this, but Prigione is just a journeyman. He would not get minutes on a contender (remember “Melo Light”/Copeland?).
      Prigione plays like an old man and is only valuable to the Knicks because the team is so bad.

      I think maybe you are not familiar with the secrets??

    30. JK47

      I don’t even understand why there was any controversy about Bargs. He had already played a lot of very bad minutes over the years in Toronto and he was clearly not trending in a good direction. I was amazed to see people supporting the move– that just seemed to me like some real wishful thinking homerism there. I mean, if you can talk yourself into the idea that Andrea Bargnani is going to be a good player, you can talk yourself into just about anything.

    31. mokers

      The funny thing is that I think even Bargnani “fans” believe Bargnani is getting too many minutes. 15 would be ideal unless he is hot or other bigs are in foul trouble.

      The reason I put most of the blame on Woodson besides the defense is that he is unwilling to bench players that aren’t playing well and is equally as unwilling or unable to setup offense to compliment his players. eg Bargs is not a great 3 point shooter, but is decent midrange and is good when he is moving towards the basket, but the knicks usually just have him float around the 3 point line. The knicks never try and get Carmelo any spot up 3s and are seemingly fine having JR stepback long 2s as the default set on the second unit. Tyson Chandler is great in the PnR, why that isn’t the default play more even in the 4th quarter is strange. Speaking of PnR, with the Amar’e and Chandler on the team, you would think that all of the guards that have been available since training camp should have been running it in practice all the time, which incidentally might actually help them with defending it during the game.

      The players have sucked, but there are things a JV high school coach would be able to correct.

    32. mokers

      Replacing Bargnani ‘s minutes with someone who has been playing, and is likely to continue playing, terribly is not going to transform the Knicks into a good team. Unless, of course, Tyler or Aldrich really are players.

      Tyler and Aldrich don’t have to be good. The problem is that Bargs offense has to be at a certain level to make up for his defense and rebounding. Without that offense, it would be better to have people on the floor that can rebound.

    33. DRed

      The players have sucked, but there are things a JV high school coach would be able to correct.

      This. JR, for example, has been horrible, but it’s not his fault he plays so many minutes. I don’t know shit about coaching basketball, but I know he shouldn’t be playing so much.

    34. domiknick

      Mike, can you make up some “Stop Switchin’ ” t-shirts?

      I love this idea. Especially because it alludes to the fact that Melo was in those “Stop Snitchin'” videos. In fact, I bet if he saw this on a shirt, he would get a kick out of it for both reasons.

    35. knickster

      Bargnani sucks, yes. But he is clearly better than the alternatives. We will see Aldrich and Tyler in action….

    36. DRed

      Jowles, your sad devotion to that WoW religion is ridiculous. They predicted the Knicks would win 35 games LOLOLOLOLOLOL

    37. KnickfaninNJ

      I looked at the stats Jowles posted a link to and the weird thing is that Bargnani is better now that he is on the Knicks than he was in Toronto. He gets more rebounds and blocks than he did in Toronto and his shooting is the same or slightly better. So he was on the upswing.

    38. d-mar

      Ok let’s not get too crazy bowing before Jowles and WOW. Last year WOW predicted the Knicks would win 44 games and they won 54, and this year WOW predicted the Nets will win 44 games, which is certainly not a lock with their current record of 18-22.

    39. DRed

      They predicted we’d win 56 last year.

      Granted, they were totally wrong about why. But they were close on the number. Predictions are tough. I didn’t take anything away from SCHOENE and WoW this year other than there was a good chance the Knicks were going to be a lot worse this year. And they were right, no matter where exactly we end up.

    40. thenamestsam

      I know our WOW advocates are riding high right now, and it does seem like their projection of the Knicks to be terrible was very prescient but lets not forget that there is a better way to judge a projection system than evaluating it on a single data point – namely evaluating it on many datapoints. And while WOW has certainly beaten the consensus with regards to the Knicks, some of it’s other bold claims aren’t looking so hot.

      Indiana – 38 wins (set to pass that next week sometime)
      Houston – 67 wins (looking set to be off by ~15 wins)
      Detroit – 54 wins (going to be off by a solid 20 here)
      Philly – 43 wins (going to be off by 15)
      Utah – 44 wins (going to be off by 15)
      Golden State – 38 wins (going to be off by 15)
      Portland – 30 wins (maybe off by 30)

      So it’s not exactly like WOW is having sage-like results overall. Credit where it’s due for the Knicks pick, and being bearish on the Nets is looking good as well so far (although maybe turning), same for being bearish on the Bulls (though that’s more a product of a single injury), and I won’t ding them for being wrong in the same way most experts were (they’ll be low by 25 wins on Phoneix and high by 15 on Memphis but they won’t be the only ones), but it’s worth mentioning how their other bold picks are performing this year if they’re going to get credit for the Knicks pick.

    41. DRed

      You’re looking at their ‘optimist’ win projections for some of the teams, which is a best case scenario number. They’re still way off on a couple, like the Pacers and the Blazers, but not by as much as you think.

    42. thenamestsam

      I looked at the middle win projection number here. Maybe that’s not the most updated. Either way, my general point is that as accurate as they’ve been on the Knicks the last couple years I don’t think two projections no matter how accurate or inaccurate really say all that much overall about the quality of their projections.

    43. nicos

      While I think WoW has some value regarding individual players it’s useless in making team predictions- they’ve been historically shitty at it, Hollinger cleaned their clock yearly until he went to work for Memphis.

    44. Owen

      I enjoy reading the WOW still though I am not the diehard I once was. Projection is pretty difficult even in a sport where players are consistent as they are in basketball. I pay attention to the predictions but any system will have big hits and misses.

      To me the WOW is the natural antidote to the Dolan regime in the CAA era. I can understand people who find fault with it but I don’t think any knicks fan in particular can afford to ignore it.

    45. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      I don’t think any of them thinks that the model is perfect. Did you see the Box Score Geeks “Go to Vegas?” If they felt their projections were dead-on, they’d bet a lot more money than they did.

      There are a ton of variables, as we’ve all said on this site, and remember that one “missed” win means one “missed” loss for another team. It’s not like you have 30 quarters and you’re trying to guess how many heads each quarter will have. It’s a zero-sum game. “Errors” accumulate quickly.

      I still stand behind the assessment that building a team based on WP48 would yield a MUCH better team than one built on whatever criteria the Knicks, Pistons, et al. currently use. Smith and Jennings was such a terrible offseason it’s hard to figure out how they could fuck it up so badly. It’s like they only have PPG available to them, and I find that hard to believe.

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