Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, October 20, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.01.21)

  • [New York Times] Pacers Win 5th Straight, Hold Off Warriors 102-94 (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 07:14:21 GMT)
    When Paul George played at Golden State last season, he missed all seven shots he took and finished scoreless in Indiana’s loss. Instead of sulking, he went straight to the gym after the Pacers arrived back home in the wee hours of the morning.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Bulls Top Lakers on Gibson’s Buzzer-Beating Layup in Overtime (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 04:18:39 GMT)
    Taj Gibson’s athletic move to the hoop was upheld by video review as the Chicago Bulls evened their record at 20-20.    

  • [New York Times] Gibson Layup at OT Buzzer Lifts Bulls Over Lakers (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 04:05:07 GMT)
    Taj Gibson made a layup at the buzzer in overtime, lifting the Chicago Bulls to a 102-100 victory over the Los Angeles Lakers on Monday night.    

  • [New York Times] Rockets End Blazers’ Streak With 126-113 Win (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:50:07 GMT)
    Chandler Parsons scored a season-high 31 points and Dwight Howard added 24 points to lead the Houston Rockets to a 126-113 win over Portland on Monday night that snapped the Trail Blazers’ five-game winning streak.    

  • [New York Times] Johnson’s Versatility Is Driving the Nets (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:44:44 GMT)
    Shooting guard Joe Johnson has been on a roll, and his diverse offensive skills have also helped raise his teammates’ level of play.    

  • [New York Times] Nets 103, Knicks 80: Knicks Are Baffled in Blowout Loss to Nets (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 02:57:04 GMT)
    Joe Johnson scored 25 points for the Nets, who have won seven of their last eight, and the Knicks, meanwhile, lost their fourth in a row.    

  • [New York Times] Bobcats Hold On to Beat Raptors 100-95 (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 01:53:34 GMT)
    Al Jefferson sat at his locker pondering how the Charlotte Bobcats nearly surrendered a 30-point lead they held late in the third quarter.    

  • [New York Times] Burke and Hardaway Gone, Yet Michigan Rolls On (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 01:18:08 GMT)
    Missing two of the stars who carried them to the N.C.A.A. championship game last season, the Wolverines put their trust in a pair of young players: Glenn Robinson III and Nik Stauskas.    

  • [New York Times] Millsap Has 26, Hawks Hold Off Heat 121-114 (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 01:14:08 GMT)
    Paul Millsap scored 26 points and the Atlanta Hawks overcame LeBron James’ 30 points to beat the Miami Heat 121-114 on Monday night.    

  • [New York Times] Davis Lifts Pelicans Over Grizzlies 95-92 (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 01:11:14 GMT)
    Anthony Davis scored 21 of his 27 points in the second half and grabbed 10 rebounds as the New Orleans Pelicans snapped their eight-game losing streak with a 95-92 victory over the Memphis Grizzlies on Monday.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ Felton says he played like ‘crap’ against Nets (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 06:04:23 GMT)
    It might not be a stretch to say that Raymond Felton played one of his worst games as a Knick on Monday. How bad was Felton, who missed 9-of-11 shots from the floor and turned the ball over three times? If he was a coach, James Dolan might have fired him already.    

  • [New York Daily News] Nets beat up on Knicks in one-sided battle of NY (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 06:01:35 GMT)
    If the multiple rounds of boos didn’t tell the full story inside the Garden, a few discernible “Brook-lyn” chants certainly filled in the remaining holes. The resurgent Nets distanced themselves from the sinking Knicks by cruising to a swift 103-80 victory in Manhattan.    

  • [New York Daily News] Isola: Knicks’ Melo has look of man with one foot out the door (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 04:13:59 GMT)
    The look of sheer disgust was obvious on Carmelo Anthony’s face when Andrea Bargnani missed a defensive rotation ? shocking, right? ? and allowed Deron Williams to make a wide open jumper. Right on cue, ESPN cameras caught Anthony’s immediate and telling reaction from the bench.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ Udrih requests a trade (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:53:25 GMT)
    Veteran point guard Beno Udrih has requested a trade from the Knicks, a source confirmed Monday night to the Daily News. The source said both sides agree that Udrih’s tenure in New York “is not working,” and that the Knicks have agreed to attempt to accommodate his desire to be moved.    

  • [New York Daily News] World Peace won’t rush return to Knicks (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 01:42:43 GMT)
    Metta World Peace said he planned to have a fifth blood spinning procedure on his troublesome left knee following Monday’s 103-80 loss to the Nets, “the last one,” he proclaimed before the game. World Peace, who hasn’t played since Dec. 27, said he knew all along he would have five procedures.    

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Opening Tip: Can Knicks win more than 37? (Tue, 21 Jan 2014 06:00:37 EDT)
    Remember ESPN.com’s SCHOENE preseason projections? The statistics-based computer projection had the Knicks winning just 37 games this year.Fans and some media members (this one included) strongly disagreed with the prediction. But it looks like SCHOENE, ESPN analyst Kevin Pelton’s system, was right on. Heck, maybe it was even a little optimistic?Through 41 games, the Knicks are 15-26. That means they are on pace to win just 30 games.

  • 55 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.01.21)

    1. chrisk06811

      Beno wants a trade, and I say we do all that we can to help him. He’s been such a warrior for us, all these years; he’s paid his dues and left it out there on the floor. It’s not like he’s getting paid to do this. I will miss him and proudly wear my Udrich jersey.

    2. DRed

      Jorts is actually putting up some legit numbers (in a pretty small number of minutes, but still).

      I’m dead serious about Jorts being a better stretch big than Bargnani. Even if Bargs was on the minimum I’d rather have Jorts than him.

    3. Owen

      How bad is Bargnani? It’s hard to calculate, sort of like the size of the universe. But good enough to trade a first rounder for.

      He’s the only player in the NBA who decelerates as he approaches the hoop. That play last night where he passed up a free throw line jumper, lowered his shoulder, and ran straight through a defender was literally the dumbest basketball play I have ever seen.

      He is the centerpiece of the black comedy currently playing at MSG…

    4. Nick C.

      Bargs is like Jared Jeffries without the defense.

      He is worse because he takes so many shots and otherwise is involved offensively. The crappy thing is in watching the game yesterday and seeing soooo many open threes and thinking it is a recipe for disaster. Then it dawned on me we have the one player in the NBA who can be left wide open from three all night long at no risk. He is our floor spacer. It’s too sad to be funny.

    5. Frank

      I was ok semi-ok with the Bargs trade when it happened, but hey, I’m not paid to make these decisions so it doesn’t matter what I think. But I’ve gone 10000% the other direction now. The guy just has no idea how to play basketball. Ujiri must still be laughing to himself. And honestly, Woodson only makes it worse by putting him out there in bad positions.

    6. knickster

      But wasn’t Bargnani the guy meant to “take Hibbert out of the paint”? Wasn’t he great, but misunderstood and misused in Toronto?

      Sometimes it feels like most Knicks fans deserve this team.

    7. lavor postell

      Yeah Knicks fans deserve this team because they support their team and hope against hope for the best. The gamble was basically that Bargnani could return to shooting around 37% from three which was the norm for him until he had shoulder problems a couple of years ago. If he could simply hit that wide open three from the top of the key which was the hope this team’s offense would be drastically better and would make him a passable player able to eat up minutes for us at the 4 and 5 where we have been annihalated by injury.

      Giving away a first round pick was fucking stupid and completely on Grunwald who had ZERO backbone in trade negotiations. This guy gave away picks in trades for Felton, Camby and Bargnani when it was completely unnecessary. I don’t really care about losing Novak or Camby, but to throw in a 2016 first rounder for an awful contract, albeit one that ended in 2015, is a joke.

    8. DRed

      Like I said at the time, Novak for Bargnani straight up would have been a bad deal. We have had a lot of (totally predictable) injury problems at the 4/5, but they are compounded by the inability of the head coach to realize he’s running out one of the worst players in the NBA while what appears to be a totally serviceable backup big man sits on the bench doing sweet fuck all night after night.

    9. lavor postell

      I think Hubert said it a week ago but keeping Copeland and then using the same assets we traded for Bargnani could have yielded us Lowry. Copeland + Lowry > Prigioni + Bargnani. Grunwald did certain things right, but his trades in general were awful and his valuations this summer of player value this summer were off.

      Hell Copeland by himself would have provided a shit ton more value than Prigioni and Bargnani have so far this season.

    10. knickster

      @13

      Expecting Bargnani to contribute on a good team (those were the expectations for Bargnani and the Knicks, right?) has always been delusional. But then again, so are most Knicks fans, as evidenced by all the talk during the little west-coast mini winning streak.

      Remember back in october and november when a lot of delusional fans were talking about how “scary deep” the Knicks were with all the garbage players they took straight out of the NBA’s reject bin?

      Only in new york can fans believe Artest, Martin, Prigioni, Bargnani, Amare, Felton, JR Smith, Shumpert, etc., are vital parts of a legitimate contender.

    11. lavor postell

      @knickster

      Prigioni, Martin, Felton, JR Smith, Shump and to a lesser extent Amar’e were all part of a 54 win team that won the Atlantic last year and finished second in the East. Also maybe you should go read other team’s fanboard sometime and you’d be surprised at the amount of delusion that seems widespread among fans around the league. Might have something to do with the fact that fan is short for the word fanatic.

      True Knicks fans are no less delusional than most fans of most teams, but maybe it’s because there’s a lot more of Knicks fans it seems that way to you.

    12. knickster

      Last year’s team’s accomplishments were fool’s gold: winning the atlantic is meaningless. We won about 7-10 extra games at the cost of running Carmelo and chandler into the ground plus the perfect storm of a team shooting 3-pointers way above their norm. hell, even Ronnie Brewer was shooting great for a while. last year’s team was not nearly as good as the number of wins would suggest; the 54 wins were a statistical abnormality, an outlier, if you will.

      All those players were bad or mediocre then and they are bad and/or mediocre today.

    13. coyle022

      If Woodson would just use his personnel correctly, the Knicks would be at or around .500

      Look at San Antonio, Pop plays 10-11 guys routinely, at least 15 min each. Guys like Cole Aldrich and Jeremy Tyler don’t even need 15 minutes. Give them 10 and see what they can do.

      Not only would it help the progression of the younger players like Murry, etc., this would keep the main guys fresh for the 4th qtrs. Melo wouldn’t be gassed and might actually make clutch shots again.

      Not to mention the strategic pitfalls of Woodson’s switching, iso-offense, and lack of game feel. Too much JR, misuse of Shumpert, WAY too much Bargnani….how can a coach make this many glaring mistakes and still be around because “the players respect him.”

      This is a sick joke and Woodson should have taken the fall months ago. It is shocking that he still is the head coach. Several posters on this site would do a better job with this current team. The roster is not trash folks, there are pieces here but with Woodson’s mismanagement of every single one of them besides Melo, 15-26 is the result. Look at the Raptors. Are you telling me that they have a superior roster and better pieces than NYK? Not a chance. Put Mike Woodson in TOR as head coach and they are competing with MIL for worst record. Look at Phoenix. Again, inferior roster to NYK, put Woodson in Jeff Hornacek’s seat and they are down there with Utah and SAC as tankers.

      It’s simple. Fire Woodson.

    14. lavor postell

      @ Knickster

      Melo played right around his career average for MPG and Chandler contributed close to nothing to that end of season flourish. During our huge win streak at the end of the season Prigioni, Felton, Shumpert and Martin were starters, JR Smith played his best ball in the 6th man role and they all played heavy minutes. Outside of JR none of them played significantly above or beyond their career norms.

      @20

      I agree that coaching is the biggest thing keeping this team back from hovering above .500, but either way this team needs an overhaul.

    15. JK47

      Build through the draft. Collect assets. Don’t trade away first round picks and especially don’t trade away unprotected first round picks. Hold onto your second round picks too– sometimes those guys pan out.

      Don’t make a big free agent splash until you already have a few productive pieces who are still on rookie contracts. Avoid one-dimensional players who don’t defend well. Don’t make “win now” moves until you are truly on the brink of contending.

      This. Shit. Is. Not. Hard.

    16. DRed

      Look at the Raptors. Are you telling me that they have a superior roster and better pieces than NYK? Not a chance.

      The Raptors have a pretty decent squad now that they dumped Bargnani and Gay. The big difference between the Raptors and the Knicks is that the Raptors aren’t giving tons of minutes to very bad players.

    17. knickster

      Melo played right around his career average for MPG and Chandler contributed close to nothing to that end of season flourish. During our huge win streak at the end of the season Prigioni, Felton, Shumpert and Martin were starters, JR Smith played his best ball in the 6th man role and they all played heavy minutes. Outside of JR none of them played significantly above or beyond their career norms.

      The 54 wins were spread over the entire season, so I don’t know why you’re choosing only the end-of-season streak.

      As for as Melo’s minutes, not all minutes are the same: Lindsey Lohan is much older than a clean-living person of the same age. Melo’s minutes (in great part because of his not-very-intelligent approach to the game) take a bigger toll on him than they would on JR, for example.

    18. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      Is there really a person on this board who thinks that the Knicks are in better shape than the Raptors? They’re one Derozan-sized salary dump away from being the 3rd best team in the East while having a huge number of expirings next year to make a big FA splash. With Derozan gone they’d have ~25-28M to throw around next year. That’s much, much better than the Knicks. And they don’t have an overrated “superstar” ready and willing to take a contract that would eat that entire figure. Only the Lakers could have been in better shape, but they shot themselves in the Achilles to “do the right thing” for a suspected rapist and confirmed shithead who just happens to be a 5-time champion. The Raptors are in GREAT shape.

      The Knicks are habitually and foreseeably fucked.

    19. DRed

      Kevin Love, Rajon Rondo and LeBron James are all coming to the Knicks in 2016-no way we’re in the lottery.

    20. The Ghost of Ted Nelson

      If Woodson would just use his personnel correctly, the Knicks would be at or around .500

      Unfortunately, that is not an indictment of Woodson, but of the roster construction and gerneral organizational health. Let’s just say Woodson had been fired after losing to Indiana last spring, and had been replaced by a “competent coach”, and the team was only playing .500 ball halfway through the season, Knicks fans would be calling for that coach’s head right now too. .500 is a terrible record to have in this conference. The East is an all-time poor conference, and they play in an even worse Division, for which we’d only be tied with the tanking Toronto Raptors with.

      If Red Holzman was coaching this squad, and was doing “everything right”, we’d have a ceiling right about where Toronto’s floor is.

    21. bobneptune

      Frank
      January 21, 2014 at 2:32 pm
      I was ok semi-ok with the Bargs trade when it happened, but hey, I’m not paid to make these decisions so it doesn’t matter what I think.

      @ Frank:

      Oh pleeeeze…… on this board , we are supposed to be a little more sophisticated than the average fan. Barg’s LIFETIME ws/48 = 0.059!!! He has sucked his entire lifetime. Everybody knew it at the time. We aren’t playing results here. His ws/48 is = 0.056 this season so he is playing almost precisely to his career average. By ws/48, he has been an average nba player exactly one season in his entire career. His career has been full of fail, and everyone excepting the Knick nut huggers knew it.

      He is precisely a eurotrash Brad Sellers…. a seven footer who goes to bed every night thinking he is a 2 guard trapped in a big man’s body.

    22. DRed

      Everybody knew it at the time.

      They most certainly did not. That’s what’s so fascinating about Bargs.

    23. ephus

      The confounding thing about Bargnani is that “low motor” is his most pervasive characteristic. Bargnani is the player that scouts feared that Hibbert would be coming out of Georgetown: Slow, passive, low energy and clueless on defensive rotations. As people feared with Hibbert, these flaws make it impossible for Bargnani to contribute.

      Bargnani would be a bad value at $0 salary.

      +1. Sigh.

    24. Brian Cronin

      Holy shit, that’s awful news. What fucking assholes. Who was it that recently also talked some shit about their team’s medical staff? About them possibly fucking over their career. I forget who, but it is a damned shame that shit like this can happen.

    25. DRed

      Sounds like it’s more a case of the Nuggets screwing themselves. If Gallo hasn’t damaged the knee further he’ll just keep getting paid a ton of money to rehab, which is not the worst job in the world.

    26. bobneptune

      The confounding thing about Bargnani is that “low motor” is his most pervasive characteristic. Bargnani is the player that scouts feared that Hibbert would be coming out of Georgetown: Slow, passive, low energy and clueless on defensive rotations. As people feared with Hibbert, these flaws make it impossible for Bargnani to contribute.

      The only problem with that analysis is Bargs is a confirmed low motor dog, while Hibbert had an undiagnosed case of stress induced asthma that led some (racist) scouts to believe he was dogging it late in games in college and early in his career:

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/28/AR2010122802792.html

    27. bobneptune

      They most certainly did not. That’s what’s so fascinating about Bargs.

      To those that actually watch NBA games with an open mind and have a modicum of understanding of advanced stats, there is precisely nothing fascinating about Bargs.

      Actually there is something…. why on earth is he in the NBA and not Euroleague? 4 years ago he could shoot the 3 ball well for a 7 footer and nothing else. The past 3 years he can’t shoot…. can’t rebound and can’t defend…. the NBA trifecta of shame.

    28. DRed

      To those that actually watch NBA games with an open mind and have a modicum of understanding of advanced stats, there is precisely nothing fascinating about Bargs.

      Well, not about Bargs himself. He sucks. But it was incredible to me to see how many people here thought he might work out. And obviously it’s not just Knickerbloggers, because we actually traded for him and our coach keeps playing him.

      Bargs has consistently played big minutes in his NBA career despite never approaching mediocrity. It’s mind blowing to me that people who coach professional basketball for a living and watch Bargs suck from close up (and presumably also watch a lot of film of him sucking) keep sending him out there to fail again. It’s like some sort of collective insanity.

    29. ephus

      @37. I thought it was clear that I was not endorsing the negative reviews that scouts gave Hibbert when he was drafted. My point was that Bargnani really is what scouts mistakenly believed Hibbert was.

      Everything that was said on this board about JR Smith squandering talent and wasting his opportunity goes equally for Bargnani. Bargnani with a high motor would be a solid rotation player and might be a star. For some reason, Bargnani seems bound and determined not to become the player that he could be. Mike Gminski should be a floor for Bargnani.

      Could imagine if Bargnani had a motor like Stoudemire? Garnett?

    30. flossy

      Wow, I feel so bad for Gallo. I tore my ACL (and MCL! And cartilage! wooo) and never had surgery to repair it, but I’m not a professional athlete.

    31. johnno

      Sadly, Bargnani has been far from the worst/least productive player on the team this year. Virtually every guard on the roster has been far worse than he has been. By the way, Isola is wrong — it was not Bargnani who missed the rotation that led to Melo’s look of disgust. It was Prigioni who chased the wrong guy. Look at the highlight — Chandler looks at him like he’s thinking “What the heck are you doing?”

    32. thenoblefacehumper

      What makes this season all the more frustrating (and just plain sad) is that if someone told me before the season that at the halfway point ‘Melo would be averaging nearly a double double (even with the average-ish efficiency) I’d think we were right in the mix for the top spot in the East. Who would’ve thought that this season would be a train wreck with him having what some might consider a career year?

      That’s not to say he should take no blame for our predicament, but it’s amazing what giving big minutes to Penguin Felton and fucking Bargs can do to a team.

    33. nicos

      johnno
      January 21, 2014 at 8:37 pm
      By the way, Isola is wrong — it was not Bargnani who missed the rotation that led to Melo’s look of disgust. It was Prigioni who chased the wrong guy. Look at the highlight — Chandler looks at him like he’s thinking “What the heck are you doing?”

      That play illustrates everything that’s wrong with Woodson’s defense. One crappy screen (from Andre Blatche no less) and it’s a Chinese fire drill- even if Bargs had left Blatche, neither Prigioni nor Chandler was in any position to keep Blatche from rolling which means JR would have had to come over from the baseline, leaving a shooter wide open in the corner. So once Prigs leaves Williams, the Nets have three options- isolate Williams on Bargnani (provided that Bargnani can be bothered to rotate), have Blatche roll guarded by a rotating guard, or swing the ball into the corner for a wide open three. All that from one weak screen which Prigioni actually got over without much trouble. Of course, the Knicks just compounded it by Bargnani not showing at all and Prigioni turning into Amar’e and completely turning his back on the ball which is totally inexplicable on a screen and roll. I’m really baffled as to what Prigioni was thinking- he had to see that Bargnani was still on Blatche and that neither Chandler nor JR had left their men. Just a complete mess.

    34. nicos

      Looking at the play again, Chandler was rotating over to Blatche so Prigs was on his way to cover Chandler’s man (Teletovic I think). Still, one crappy screen means three guys have to switch and even if the switches are pulled off it leaves two mismatches- Bargs on Williams and Prigioni on Teletovic. If Woodson had put that defense in because he had no faith in Bargnani (or Stat) being able to show and recover I might understand it a bit but they did the same thing last year and they do it whether Bargs or Amar’e are in the game or not. The season’s half over and the defense is completely busted and Woodson has done nothing to fix it- that’s indefensible.

    35. Owen

      God Kevin Durant is good….

      Just amazing his last sequence against the Blazers….

      I feel really really bad for Gallo and I have to say, that seems like a huge mistake by the medical staff….

    36. Owen

      Final scoring line for KD….

      46 points on 17-25 shooting, 6-7 from three, 6-7 from the line.

      His recent scoring outburst seems historic…

      Perfect way to win an mvp too….

    37. flossy

      Wow, Durant just dropped 46 points on Portland on only 25 shots. 17-25, 5-6 from 3.

      If he finishes the year averaging 30, 8, and 5 (which he is on pace to do if he picks up his rebounding by just a hair), he’ll be one of four players to ever do that: Jordan, Oscar Robertson (4x), Wilt (2x) and Elgin Baylor. If he maintains his .634 (higher, after tonight) TS%, it’ll be the highest of any player in the 30/8/5 club.

      He is halfway to having one of the all-time great NBA seasons.

    38. lavor postell

      Jordan averaged 32.5/8/8 with a .614 TS%. Pretty good lol.

      Just finished reading the Book of Basketball and while there is some stuff that I disagreed with, like Russell being the No. 2 player of all time Simmons did a great job convincing me Jordan was the greatest of all time. I was too young to see Abdul-Jabbar or even to truly appreciate Jordan since he basically made me cry every April/May of my childhood (I’m an 87′ baby), but I always thought Kareem’s longevity made it a tough argument. Some of the stuff Jordan did though is just mind boggling especially since his numbers across the board got better in the postseason. Just a random thought.

    39. flossy

      Jordan averaged 32.5/8/8 with a .614 TS%. Pretty good lol.

      Yeah, not to put KD up there with Jordan, but it would be pretty impressive nonetheless, or will be, if he can sustain it.

    40. BigBlueAL

      Yeah lavor, the thing about Jordan is many people dont realize how amazing he was before he even started winning championships. His stats in the seasons before he started winning championships are just insane. Heck his stats even in his championship winning seasons are still pretty damn good too (especially during the first 3peat) but again people think MJ and mostly just think about his scoring and “clutchness” but when he was younger and truly in his athletic prime his stats across the board were just insane.

    41. lavor postell

      @ BigBlueAl

      Yeah I imagine that Jordan in his younger days was truly amazing and at least I can youtube some of the highlights from his crazier days. It’s much harder to appreciate an Abdul-Jabbar, Baylor, West, Clyde, Reed, Robertson, Dr. J, Moses Malone, Wilt, Russell etc. when having seen so little of them.

    42. Owen

      If Durant keeps this up his season will definitely be worthy of consideration amongst the greatest ever in the modern era. His numbers are sick so far.

      Doubt he can keep it up but the guy is appointment viewing if you have League Pass.

    43. bobneptune

      Could imagine if Bargnani had a motor like Stoudemire? Garnett?

      It is like the old saying….. it’s not about the size of the dog in the fight….. it;s about the size of the fight in the dog.

      bargs is yellow on the inside. spineless…. gutless…. useless

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