Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, July 31, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.01.15)

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Opening Tip: Why bench J.R.? (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 06:00:45 EDT)
    Another day, another wrinkle to the J.R. Smith story. Smith did not play in the Knicks’ loss to the Charlotte Bobcats. And it’s unclear why. Knicks coach Mike Woodson benched Smith in the team’s win over Miami last Thursday after Smith was fined $50,000 for attempting to untie opponents’ shoelaces. He played in the Knicks’ next two games but was benched on Tuesday. It’s pretty strange that Woodson would bench Smith in the second game of a back-to-back.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] J.R.: 'Ridiculous' if benched for shoe stunts (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 01:43:29 EDT)
    J.R. Smith isn’t sure why he was benched on Tuesday against the Charlotte Bobcats, but he thinks it would be “ridiculous” if the Knicks sat him against Charlotte for his shoelace incident. “For [the sneakers] to be the trigger point and for all this to happen is ridiculous,” Smith said, according to published reports. Yes, the Smith saga took another turn on Tuesday. To recap: Smith had been benched for the Knicks’ win over the Miami Heat last week after he was fined $50,000 by the NBA for his attempts to untie opponents’ shoelaces.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ Tyson a ‘little weak’ in return from illness (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 06:19:54 GMT)
    For much of the Knicks’ laggard start to this season, Mike Woodson had talked about the importance of getting Tyson Chandler back in the lineup for the team to reverse course and get back into the playoff picture in the Eastern Conference.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ Smith benched again as team looks sluggish in loss to Bobcats (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 06:18:48 GMT)
    J.R. Smith methodically packed a foldable suitcase in the middle of the visiting dressing room late Tuesday night, an odd sight for anyone but the one Knick who quickly has fallen back into disfavor with Mike Woodson.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks Insider: Amar’e produces healthy 17 (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 05:07:58 GMT)
    Amar’e Stoudemire still might rest his rehabbed knees in one of the Knicks’ two remaining games later this week, but the resurgent former All-Star enjoyed another strong game in Tuesday’s 108-98 loss to the Bobcats.    

  • [New York Post] Chandler’s return offers little fuel to stop Bobcats (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 05:46:18 -0500)
    CHARLOTTE, N.C. — The return of center Tyson Chandler was not the answer. Chandler, battling back from bronchitis after missing the previous four games, appeared sluggish and Bobcats center Al…

  • [New York Newsday] Mike Woodson to keep Amar'e Stoudemire playing about 23 minutes (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 00:13:19 EST)
    Amar'e Stoudemire already has played more games than all of last season, and he continues to play well.

  • [New York Times] Deng Has 27, Leads Cavs Past Woeful Lakers 120-118 (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 07:06:33 GMT)
    Mike Brown had no interest in rehashing his past with the Los Angeles Lakers — not right now, not with his new team struggling.    

  • [New York Times] Grizzlies Beat Thunder 90-87 in Gasol’s Return (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 05:24:14 GMT)
    The Memphis Grizzlies celebrated the return of Marc Gasol with a victory over one of the league’s top teams — and one of their biggest rivals.    

  • [New York Times] Bobcats 108, Knicks 98: Knicks Fall to Bobcats, and J. R. Smith Sits Again (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 05:02:11 GMT)
    With Smith sitting on the bench again, the Knicks saw their five-game winning streak come to an end in Charlotte as Al Jefferson scored a season-high 35 points.    

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Team Now Known Only as Stars (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 03:13:48 GMT)
    San Antonio’s W.N.B.A. franchise is changing its name from the Silver Stars to the Stars.    

  • [New York Times] Pacers’ Vogel Earns East All-Star Coaching Spot (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 03:00:44 GMT)
    Indiana Pacers coach Frank Vogel has clinched the Eastern Conference coaching spot for next month’s NBA All-Star game.    

  • [New York Times] Pacers Beat Kings, Clinch All-Star Spot for Vogel (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 02:51:19 GMT)
    Paul George scored 31 points, making four 3-pointers, to lead the Indiana Pacers to a 116-92 victory over the Sacramento Kings on Tuesday night.    

  • [New York Times] Jefferson Lifts Bobcats Past Knicks, 108-98 (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 02:39:27 GMT)
    Al Jefferson scored a season-high 35 points, Kemba Walker had 12 of his 25 in the fourth quarter and the Charlotte Bobcats snapped the New York Knicks’ five-game winning streak with a 108-98 victory Tuesday night.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Garnett Lives His Soccer Dream (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 02:15:11 GMT)
    In London to play the Hawks, Nets power forward felt “like a kid in a candy store” during a visit to storied Chelsea F.C.    

  • [New York Times] Bulls, Built to Win Now, Decide to Disassemble (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 02:09:23 GMT)
    The Bulls, who traded the All-Star forward Luol Deng to the Cavaliers on Jan. 7, are a team filled with veterans still intent on winning, and a front office squarely committed to the future.    

  • [New York Times] Marc Gasol Set to Return to Lineup for Grizzlies (Wed, 15 Jan 2014 00:48:25 GMT)
    Memphis Grizzlies center Marc Gasol returned to action Tuesday night against the Oklahoma City Thunder after spraining a left knee ligament less than eight weeks ago.    

  • 48 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.01.15)

    1. Totes McGoats

      Yup..as expected the guys looked predictably tired last night. Playing against Jefferson last night, maybe Woodson shoulda gave Aldrich and Tyler more than 3 minutes combined. This was definitely a bad game for Tyson to make his return in. And after Melo’s post game after the Phoenix game I knew he was gonna be half Melo- which is still pretty good. Wildly inefficient, but good. MKG’s tough though isn’t he? In a thread last week I mention a rebuild trade to Charlotte which included MKG, Biyombo, and Gordon for Melo. I think I might have thrown Shump and Henderson in there too. That move along with a Melo for Griffin, or Melo to DC for a package including Porter are the only Melo deals I would consider. But gosh darnit doohickey heck Melo is sure making it hard to consider rebuilding. He has been really good this season. Anywho..can we consider last night’s game a blip since it was the 2nd of a back to back in which the 1st game went into OT? That’s what it feels like to me. We still could have and should have won, but with the OT the night before and Tyson’s return from illness, it was a night set up for a Knicks loss. I am intrigued by the JR benching though. Woodson’s not that dumb that he would give TH2 burn over JR on a night when shots were not falling and JR seems to be rounding into form..slowly. Could something really be in the works?

    2. KnickfaninNJ

      Could something really be in the works

      I was going to suggest this but you beat me to it. It’s the only reason I can think of that he was benched. He can be traded as of today, I think.

    3. naztorious

      I think Melo might be doing the Daniel Fast again. Currently many churches have started the Daniel Fast for January so maybe he’s doing that again. My church just started it and it is basically like a hard core version of being Vegan.

      Anyways I guess it really can’t be an excuse for being gassed if Hakeem still performed at phenomenal levels while fasting.

      Is there anything the Knicks Medical staff can do to improve Tyson’s immune system? It seems every 3-4 weeks he has a new stomach bug/flu thing that sidelines him for a week. Where the heck is he hanging out in New York?

    4. MarvsTeeth

      I doubt there is a trade in the works. Seriously, do you guys really think that between these possibilities:

      1) The Knicks make an intelligent trade that sends away a flashy “big-name” scorer for a much less flashy vet while at the same time helping themselves financially
      2) Knicks management is benching JR for the shoelace incident or something similar, despite needing him badly last night, and despite having played him for two straight games after his initial benching, defying all practical behavioral psychological carrot/stick incentive logic

      do you really think it is #1 and not #2? Hey, I’d be thrilled, but c’mon guys. You kidding?

    5. KnickfaninNJ

      Generally speaking, #2 clearly seems likely to me. But in this case, it’s suspicious that JR was benched the night before he is trade eligible and also that he packed his bags. If he was being disciplined, I think it’s more likely he stays with the team.

    6. JK47

      JR isn’t leaving the team, he’s just entering the bizarre vaseline-eating phase of his Knicks career. He’ll be around for a while.

    7. Dan Panorama

      Do my eyes deceive me or did Miami just trade a first round pick from Philadelphia for Toney Douglas? Because that’s just awesome.

    8. Kikuchiyo

      JR isn’t leaving the team, he’s just entering the bizarre vaseline-eating phase of his Knicks career. He’ll be around for a while.

      I’m not sure if I should laugh or cry.

    9. Hubert

      Seems like benching JR after he had two productive games is counterintuitive if you’re trying to trade him. Especially when you’re playing a team that could be a potential trade partner.

      Unfortunately our team has a warped perception of the media and sharing information with its paying customers. If I had to guess, he did/said something behind closed doors for which he was punished.

      What a shit show.

      I’m on board with those who don’t think he’ll be gone. We’re going to be putting up with this for a while.

    10. thenamestsam

      Do my eyes deceive me or did Miami just trade a first round pick from Philadelphia for Toney Douglas? Because that’s just awesome.

      Well an extremely protected first round pick (more likely to be 2 2nd round picks) and being rid of Joel Anthony’s salary for Toney Douglas. But yes.

    11. hoolahoop

      This is the exact time NOT to trade JR, especially for a grumpy old man (Miller).
      After the benching, JR played his best game of the season, followed by another solid, though pedestrian, game. People turn their lives around. He was sent a strong message by the league and the team. Maybe he gets it.
      Put him on a short leash. If he goes back to his antics, THEN trade him. But, why in the world would you trade a talented guy that’s presently shown a glimmer of hope?

    12. DRed

      If you can get a possible first round pick for TDDWTDD can’t we move any of the crap on our roster for some sort of asset?

    13. Totes McGoats

      Hahahaha it is kinda funny to see TDDWTDD on the Heat…until he gets in a playoff game against us (2 vs 7 likely) and pressures the shit outta Felton full court. I know it was just a salary dump but I can’t see that working out well..especially if the Oden gamble fails

    14. lavor postell

      I don’t think there’s any purpose in trading JR right now unless you can get some kind of draft pick out of it. Are we competing for a championship this season? No, but JR can definitely contribute positively to us getting to the playoffs and winning a first round matchup. I don’t buy the argument that if you’re not a championship contender being in the lottery is more worthwhile (especialli when we don’t have a pick). Guys like Shump and Hardaway Jr. can benefit from being exposed to playoff basketball and as an organization considering our performance standards for the best decade, the playoffs are nothing to sneeze at.

      Constantly being in the playoffs also creates a certain standard that players, coaches and front office personnel must achieve rather than the “grass is greener” mentality we adopted in throwing away the 08-09 and 09-10 seasons in pursuit of Lebron. In an ideal world we wouldn’t have given away an unnecessary amount of assets in the Melo trade and to a lesser extent the moves for Felton, Camby and Bargnani, but those are in the past. I don’t see the purpose or value in trading JR at his nadir for 37 year old Andre Miller and some added cap space in 2015.

    15. DRed

      I don’t see the purpose or value in trading JR at his nadir for 37 year old Andre Miller and some added cap space in 2015.

      Because old ass Andre Miller is better than Ray Felton and JR Smith?

    16. Hubert

      This is the exact time NOT to trade JR, especially for a grumpy old man (Miller).
      After the benching, JR played his best game of the season, followed by another solid, though pedestrian, game. People turn their lives around. He was sent a strong message by the league and the team. Maybe he gets it.

      I would never want to bet my team’s chances of success on JR turning his life around.

      I do agree that it’s an odd time to bench him, though. After the two good games, I was hopeful we could convince some other team to bet on JR turning his life around.

      Now, I think we told the entire league to stay away, as if they already didn’t know. And we poorly managed a player we’re going to get stuck with and created resentment. Poorly played all around, IMO. (the second benching, I mean)

    17. flossy

      People turn their lives around. He was sent a strong message by the league and the team. Maybe he gets it.

      Man, I would love to live in the fog of blissful naivete you must inhabit.

      The Knicks beat writers are all reporting that JR had some choice words for Woodson at the end of the game against Phoenix, because JR, after missing the game winning shot, felt he didn’t get enough playing time during OT and decided to pipe up about it (no pun intended) despite the fact that the Knicks, you know, won the game anyway.

    18. hoolahoop

      “People turn their lives around. He was sent a strong message by the league and the team. Maybe he gets it.”

      Man, I would love to live in the fog of blissful naivete you must inhabit.

      At flossy:
      Baahhaaahaaa! You gots to be kidding. This, from a chartered member of the knicks fanboy club?
      One of the best laughs I’ve ever had reading these posts.

    19. hoolahoop

      I haven’t read that JR complained after the Pheonix win, and I may be wrong about giving JR a chance to do the right thing. All I know is he played well in his last two outings. You can’t keep punishing someone for something they did in the past – after letting him play again.
      If he’s disruptive on the court or to the team, then it’s different story.

    20. Hubert

      All I know is he played well in his last two outings. You can’t keep punishing someone for something they did in the past – after letting him play again.

      I agree with this.

      Which is why I feel it’s safe to assume that something along the lines of this:

      If he’s disruptive on the court or to the team, then it’s different story.

      happened and is being covered up by the Knicks because that’s what they do.

    21. flossy

      I’m not sure how I got a reputation as a Knicks cheerleader, but I’m glad my commentary can bring a laugh to the lips of someone who thinks that after nearly $2 million in career fines (between the NBA and China) and several dozens of games missed due to suspension, JR Smith is now ready to turn his life around.

    22. Hubert

      I’m not sure how I got a reputation as a Knicks cheerleader

      I *may* have told some people that you showed up to the Knickerblogger meetup dressed like a Knicks City Dancer. I’m sorry.

    23. Nick C.

      This JR thing is bringing to mind the Marbury DNPs. At the time D’Antoni got a lot of flack for being two faced. he is gone but the one constant is the owner. It is weird, though if JR really ran his mouth to Woodson then I am sorry but he is just about as self-absorbed and obtuse as a person can be.

    24. flossy

      I *may* have told some people that you showed up to the Knickerblogger meetup dressed like a Knicks City Dancer. I’m sorry.

      Hey! Just because I look great in an orange and blue tube top/miniskirt combo doesn’t mean I’m not deeply ambivalent about this roster and franchise in general.

    25. JK47

      JR rotting on the bench is an enormous net positive for the team. The guy is clearly not the same athlete he was before the surgery, and JR Smith with drastically reduced athleticism is just quite frankly not a very good player. He has played about 1000 execrable, godawful minutes on both ends of the floor and has played his way to the bench, shoelace incidents or not.

      Maybe it’s time to let the very similar player with the 135 point edge in TS% and way better attitude take over the job as reserve shooting guard.

    26. knickster

      The problems go way beyond JR. Knicks need to clean house. Get rid of:

      JR – too much trouble, too inconsistent.
      KMart – not enough left in the tank to contribute on a regular basis
      Artest – no game left
      Melo – too expensive, spectacular offensive outbursts lull fans into false sense of contention
      Prigione – reluctant point guard, light-skinned chris duhon
      Udrih – nice guy, wants to play but can’t
      Aldrich – useless
      Bargnani – good from far, but far from good
      Amare – wants to, but can’t play anymore
      Chandler – too expensive, prone to missed defensive assignments and respiratory infections
      Felton – a true warrior without weapons
      Woodson – ran out of luck, proves last year was an ‘outlier’

      Keep Shumpert, Murry, Tyler, Hardaway in the hope one solid rotation player will emerge from the group.

      Rebuild request sent to Ronald Mcdolan. Delivery not expected.

    27. Frank

      If JR continues to be a distraction like this, I wonder whether JR would be a good candidate for the waiving via the stretch provision. he has 2 years left on his deal at about ~$12MM total – if they wave him under the stretch provision it would be a cap hit of $12MM over 5 years or just $2.4MM per year (ending after the 2018-19 season). Overall that would be a net ~$3.6MM savings on our cap after 2014-15 (for which Miami basically just paid a protected 1st round pick to accomplish in that Joel Anthony dump), and presumably after that we will be over the cap anyway so the $2.4MM won’t matter quite as much. And his $2.4MM dead weight would come off at the same time as Melo and whoever we sign after next summer.

      I continue to hope that JR turns it around, but I’m not sure he has it in him at this point. What a horrible contract that is.

    28. coyle022

      “J.R. Smith’s DNP-CD on Tuesday may have stemmed from comments he made after Monday’s overtime victory.

      Advice: Smith reportedly wasn’t happy about playing under one minute during the overtime period, and he expressed as much to coach Mike Woodson. This seems like a logical and characteristic explanation for Smith’s sudden benching,”

      Saw this on the fantasy basketball page for JR.

      “Smith reportedly wasn’t happy about playing under one minute during the overtime period,”

      JR complains for not playing a full minute of overtime…I wonder how Cole Aldrich must feel right about now

      Jeremy Tyler didn’t play in the overtime either! I’m surprised he isn’t mouthing off to Potato Head as well.

      What a disgrace. At least Woodson is finally putting his foot down, where was this in November?

    29. thenamestsam

      Regardless of what JR did to get benched, whether it was purely his terrible play, or this is still about the shoelace thing, or it’s because of his attitude at the end of the Phoenix game, it doesn’t make much sense for Woodson to bench him without telling him what he did wrong. Not putting him in without ever telling him what he has done wrong makes it more about showing him up than about getting him to fix his behavior. That’s a dumb move.

      If it was purely about his terrible play then he should come in with the other scrubs at the end of the game. But he didn’t, so we can only assume that this was a disciplinary benching for his behavior. If this was related to the shoelace incidents then he shouldn’t have played in the intervening games obviously. It stands to reason that something happened in the Phoenix game, likely the incident described where he was mad about not playing in OT. It’s fine to bench him for that, but doing it out of the blue without explaining it to him doesn’t seem designed to have much positive impact. It just seems spiteful.

    30. Frank

      Not putting him in without ever telling him what he has done wrong makes it more about showing him up than about getting him to fix his behavior. That’s a dumb move.

      Do you really think JR doesn’t know what he’s done wrong? Of course he knows. He just doesn’t care. He doesn’t think there are consequences to anything he does. What did he say about the warning that the NBA gave him?

      “They warned me, but it wasn’t one of those warnings where you go, ‘Oh, damn,’” he said. “It was one of those warnings where you really don’t know the outcome of it.”

      Honestly, Woodson has treated JR like an adult since he became the head coach. And it hasn’t worked. So now JR gets to be treated like the overgrown/overpaid child he is and get put in timeouts in the corner.

    31. Hubert

      If JR continues to be a distraction like this, I wonder whether JR would be a good candidate for the waiving via the stretch provision. he has 2 years left on his deal at about ~$12MM total – if they wave him under the stretch provision it would be a cap hit of $12MM over 5 years or just $2.4MM per year (ending after the 2018-19 season). Overall that would be a net ~$3.6MM savings on our cap after 2014-15 (for which Miami basically just paid a protected 1st round pick to accomplish in that Joel Anthony dump), and presumably after that we will be over the cap anyway so the $2.4MM won’t matter quite as much. And his $2.4MM dead weight would come off at the same time as Melo and whoever we sign after next summer.

      It’s a good idea.

      Only thing is that $2.4mm in dead weight could mean a LOT in the summer of 2015 if it prevents you from being able to offer a max contract. It could force you to give up an asset to move someone, like when we had to move Turiaf to get Chandler.

      It would be easier to turn this into a two year deal by basically sending him home this year and giving him the Marbury/Curry treatment the next year. I’m not saying we should do it. It’s a dick thing to do. I’m just saying, ours is a spiteful organization. They can make his life hell this year and next year, and make him not want to opt in for his 3rd year.

      Curry was always going to pick up his option because he was never going to get another contract. JR would be 29 years old, and would probably want to opt out, play for the minimum, and earn one last contract, I’d think. Maybe.

    32. nicos

      My problem is that the Knicks can’t afford to give away winnable games- JR griping about playing time is galling but Woody needed to play him last night. They’ll be lucky to win one of the next two and a three game losing streak puts the Knicks right back where they were before the winning streak.

    33. thenamestsam

      Do you really think JR doesn’t know what he’s done wrong? Of course he knows. He just doesn’t care. He doesn’t think there are consequences to anything he does. What did he say about the warning that the NBA gave him?

      I mean what he has done wrong specifically. Not just generally “acting like a knucklehead”. I mean the specific thing that changed between playing 27 minutes against Philly and then 25 against Phoenix to last night. He specifically said, when asked, that Woodson hadn’t talked to him about it and none of the other quotes from last night seemed to contradict that at all. Everyone seemed basically just confused.

      For two years all of JR’s behavior has been not just tolerated but rewarded. Now, all of the sudden, even relatively minor things like being upset he didn’t play in a situation where he literally always gets to play is grounds for being benched for a game. And people are acting like it’s crazy that JR is confused about this situation.

    34. hoolahoop

      JR is hanging on a thin string. Make him earn his minutes. Poor play or digressions should earn him a quick seat on the pines (or fold-ups). Regardless, moving in the direction of TH2 is a good thing.

    35. Frank

      Only thing is that $2.4mm in dead weight could mean a LOT in the summer of 2015 if it prevents you from being able to offer a max contract. It could force you to give up an asset to move someone, like when we had to move Turiaf to get Chandler.

      We’d have 2.4MM dead money hit, but that would be in place of his $6MM salary that is currently on the books for 2015-16. So we’d actually gain $3.6MM of cap space by waiving him via stretch if I understand it correctly.

      For two years all of JR’s behavior has been not just tolerated but rewarded. Now, all of the sudden, even relatively minor things like being upset he didn’t play in a situation where he literally always gets to play is grounds for being benched for a game. And people are acting like it’s crazy that JR is confused about this situation.

      If reports can be believed, he and Woodson had unpleasant words — and then he was also late for a team meeting. For someone who should be on his best behavior, it’s just more proof that he doesn’t understand what it means to be a professional. This is a team that is fighting for its life, and you can’t just play by the rules for more than 24h at a time?

      And by the way, my sense is that for every transgression that gets leaked to the media, there are probably 2-3 more than happen under the radar. JR was 6th man of the year and a very effective player last year — yet got ZERO love in free agency. That is not an accident. I think Frank Isola is a snide a**hole most of the time, but he was exactly right when he killed the Knicks for giving JR of all people a 3 year contract. JR needs to be on a year-to-year contract in order to be focused.

    36. max fisher-cohen

      @lavor postell

      Your point is that winning helps young players improve, and I agree, but the underlying idea that the way to improve a team is through developing young players runs perfectly in line with what most “tanking” teams do: trade older players for younger ones and give them a chance to gain NBA experience. Sometimes those teams play a lot better than you’d expect — Phoenix, Denver post-Melo, Toronto right now, Portland. Very few GMs will aim to sabotage these breakout teams so as to get a better draft pick.

      It’s just a fact of life in the NBA that there are only two ways to improve your team. The first is by investing time in younger players, and the second is with luck. The Spurs won more playoff games in 2010/11 than the Knicks have in their entire existence and yet they made a move to get younger — George Hill for Kawhi Leonard — because they recognized that they needed young players with the chance to get better so as to keep the team at he top. This would be like if the Knicks last summer traded Chandler for Steven Adams or Nerlens Noel.

      But the Knicks don’t make these sort of moves ever. The rare times they do keep their young players, NY sabotages them with trade rumors and coaching changes and role changes and minute variations. Even in the Donnie Walsh days, the Knicks never really endeavored to go young. The wanted Lebron and traded away lots of valuable young players to create cap space for him and even after they lost out on him, they opted to sign an older star rather than using their cap space to bring in younger players either by signing them or facilitating bigger trades or salary dumps.

    37. flossy

      Curry was always going to pick up his option because he was never going to get another contract. JR would be 29 years old, and would probably want to opt out, play for the minimum, and earn one last contract, I’d think. Maybe.

      I can see JR picking up the option out of spite and taking a year-long paid vacation. Hell, I would, in that scenario.

    38. lavor postell

      @ max fischer-cohen
      That’s a great post. You’re right and I guess I wish the Knicks would find the balance between competing and recognizing when a certain core group of players has maxed out their potential. I don’t think the Knicks should trade Melo, but I’d be okay with moving virtually everybody else on the roster. Probably the most disconcerting thing if true has been that the Knicks have been getting substantive offers for Tyson Chandler and have dismissed them without even truly evaluating them.

      The Mavericks in the Dirk era is probably an example of how I wish the Knicks would operate. They chose to stick with Dirk and shuffle the deck around him until they got the mix right, while never compromising on their status as guaranteed playoff team every year. Melo isn’t Dirk, but he’s also a player I think you can win with as long as you find running mate to alleviate his offensive responsibility and don’t give him a megamax contract which I totally think the Knicks will end up doing.

      I really hate that I love the Knicks.

    39. DRed

      We all need to bear in mind that we are discussing a guy who has a gigantic “Just Klownin” tattoo on his back.

    40. The Ghost of Ted Nelson

      Max– you’re dead right, and the Hill for Leonard example is perfect.

      However, I think you are wrong about the Walsh years. Yes, he attached young players like Hill to unload contracts that he needed to move. But the team that began 2010 was a very young team. Aside from the Roger “DNP-CD” Mason, Amar’e was the oldest player on the roster. Turiaf was next oldest. Everybody else was under 26 (Gallo, Randolph, Douglas, Fields, Chandler, Felton, Mozgov, Walker, Extra E, and Rautins). He made the right moves after missing on LeBron (like turning David Lee into a diverse trio of players), and it wasn’t until the Anthony trade that the team began on it’s AARP track (Anthony Carter alone jacked the mean age of the roster up about 9 years!)

    41. Brian Cronin

      But the Knicks don’t make these sort of moves ever.

      The Dolan Knicks don’t. The pre-Dolan Knicks did exactly that with Camby/Oakley, which turned out to be a fabulous trade.

      Then Dolan took over and they’ve gone the opposite direction ever since.

      Heck, Marcus Camby himself might be the perfect example of the pre-Dolan/post-Dolan Knicks.

      Pre-Dolan Knicks – trade a veteran who was still producing for an underrated young player

      Post-Dolan Knicks -trade that same player for an injured “star”

      Post-Dolan Knicks – then trade multiple draft picks for that same young player when he is now an old veteran himself.

    42. flossy

      We all need to bear in mind that we are discussing a guy who has a gigantic “Just Klownin” tattoo on his back.

      He’s probably also the only straight man in the world with a giant, rainbow neck tattoo that says “SWISH”

    43. er

      Rare form today flossy. Im still amazed he got the Yankee one on his throat. He must have been stoned out of his mind to endure that pain

    44. max fisher-cohen

      @Ghost of Ted Nelson

      They had young players, but did they have promising young players? Gallinari was the only decent prospect in the summer of 2010. Sure, Fields had a great first season, but he was a second round pick and hadn’t played a game at that point. Wilson Chandler was looking like maybe a solid starter but was also entering a contract year. Walker was a 2nd round pick. Shawne Williams was a pickup off the trash heap. Douglas looked to be maybe a good 6th man type player, similar to what Nate Robinson had been before him.

      These weren’t the sort of players that made you think the Knicks were headed places, and to add to that, the Knicks had just given up their 2010 draft pick and had traded their 2009 pick (hill) and their 2012 pick to get out of Jared Jeffries’ contract. To me, it’s hard to call a team that owned only two of its five first round picks from 2008-2012 committed to developing young players. The only reason they had young players was because they wanted to keep the books clean for summer 2010. You compare the promise of the 09/10 Knicks’ young players to those of other teams switching from rebuild mode to win now mode, and the Knicks look pretty bad.

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