Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Friday, April 18, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.01.09)

  • [New York Daily News] Isola: Knicks take aim at the King and his Heat (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 06:47:15 GMT)
    The Knicks could really use J.R. Smith to tie Le-Bron James’ sneakers together. While he’s at it, maybe J.R. can tie James’ hands as well. Bound and gagged may be the Knicks’ only defense against James, the best player of his generation with two NBA titles in the bank and No. 3 on the horizon.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ J.R. Smith fined $50K for his shoelace stunt (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 06:07:27 GMT)
    NBA President of Basketball Operations Rod Thorn, who issued the fine, was in attendance at Tuesday’s game against the Pistons and warned Smith after the oft-reprimanded guard untied the shoelace of Mavericks forward Shawn Marion during a free throw attempt Sunday night in Dallas.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks Insider: Shorthanded Knicks put streak up against champs (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 04:13:49 GMT)
    Mike Woodson “absolutely” thought the Knicks were going to compete with the Miami Heat before this season started, and he added Wednesday that he “still (believes) that if we could ever get back whole.”    

  • [New York Times] Love Torches Teammates as Wolves Lose Again (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 09:27:15 GMT)
    Kevin Love is usually one of the last Minnesota Timberwolves to be interviewed after a game, preferring first to collect his thoughts as he goes through a treatment regimen that includes an extended dip in an icy cold tub that helps his body recover from the beating it takes on a nightly basis.    

  • [New York Times] Apologetic Rodman Heads for North Korean Leader’s Ski Resort (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 07:33:11 GMT)
    Retired U.S. basketball star Dennis Rodman was to visit a North Korean ski resort on Thursday, possibly along with dictator Kim Jong Un, as a statement was issued on the former player’s behalf apologising for comments he made on an American jailed by Pyongyang.    

  • [New York Times] Clippers Beat Celtics 111-105 to Go 16-3 at Home (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 07:27:20 GMT)
    The Clippers are coping with the loss of Chris Paul, winning two of their first three since the All-Star guard went down with a shoulder injury.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Hawks Stun Sluggish Pacers (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 07:20:13 GMT)
    Indiana, which has the league’s best record, was playing its fourth game in five nights and had a season-low point total in the first half.    

  • [New York Times] Keeping Score: Andre Iguodala Lifts the Warriors to a Higher Level (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 07:20:13 GMT)
    Andre Iguodala, a versatile 29-year-old former All-Star, is a key reason Golden State looks like a team primed for a deep playoff run.    

  • [New York Times] Green Rallies Suns to 104-103 Win Over Wolves (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 06:54:24 GMT)
    The Phoenix Suns did what they’ve done all season — come from out of nowhere to win a game it appeared they had lost.    

  • [New York Times] Rodman Apologizes for Comments in North Korea, Says Had Been Drinking-CNN (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 06:18:11 GMT)
    Retired U.S. basketball star Dennis Rodman has apologized for comments he made about an imprisoned U.S. missionary in North Korea, CNN said on Thursday, quoting a statement.    

  • [New York Times] Batum Has Triple-Double, Blazers Beat Magic 110-94 (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 05:42:18 GMT)
    Nicolas Batum had 14 points, 10 rebounds and a career-high 14 assists for his fourth career triple-double and the Portland Trail Blazers handed the Orlando Magic their fifth straight loss with a 110-94 victory Wednesday night.    

  • [New York Times] Ariza, Wall Lead Wizards Past Pelicans 102-96 (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 05:09:22 GMT)
    Trevor Ariza scored 21 points and John Wall added 20 to lead the Washington Wizards to a 102-96 victory over the New Orleans Pelicans on Tuesday night.    

  • [New York Times] Ariza, Wall Lead Wizards Past Pelicans 102-96 (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 05:09:17 GMT)
    Trevor Ariza scored 21 points and John Wall added 20 to lead the Washington Wizards to a 102-96 victory over the New Orleans Pelicans on Tuesday night.    

  • [New York Times] N.H.L. Roundup: Hagelin Has Decisive Goal As Rangers Win in Chicago (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 05:05:26 GMT)
    Carl Hagelin’s third-period goal, his fourth game-winner of the season, gave the Rangers the victory after they lost a 2-0 lead.    

  • [New York Times] Nets 102, Warriors 98: Nets’ Kidd Earns Win Against Warriors and Jackson, a Coach Who Inspired Him (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 05:04:40 GMT)
    Jason Kidd, who followed Mark Jackson’s footsteps into coaching, led the Nets over the red-hot Warriors Wednesday night, their most impressive victory in a four-game streak.    

  • [New York Times] Nets Stop Warriors’ Streak at 10, Win 102-98 (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 04:24:13 GMT)
    The Road Warriors’ run is over. The Brooklyn Nets are suddenly the NBA’s hottest team.    

  • [New York Times] Harden, Rockets Beat Lakers 113-99 (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 03:46:01 GMT)
    James Harden tied a season high with 38 points and Dwight Howard added 20 points and 13 rebounds to propel the Houston Rockets to a 113-99 win over the Los Angeles Lakers on Wednesday night.    

  • [New York Times] Korver’s 17 Lead Hawks Past Sluggish Pacers 97-87 (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 03:06:45 GMT)
    Kyle Korver scored 17 points, Pero Antic added 16 and the Atlanta Hawks raced to a big lead before holding off the team with the NBA’s best record, beating the weary Indiana Pacers 97-87 Wednesday night.    

  • [New York Times] Rodman Heads for North Korean Leader’s Pet Ski Resort Project (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 03:06:04 GMT)
    Retired U.S. basketball star Dennis Rodman headed for a North Korean ski resort on Thursday after staging a match in Pyongyang for dictator Kim Jong Un’s birthday that has drawn the ire of human rights activists and some of his fellow professionals.    

  • [New York Times] Lowry Scores 21 as Raptors Beat Pistons 112-91 (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 02:51:26 GMT)
    Kyle Lowry had 21 points and nine assists, Jonas Valanciunas had 16 points and 11 rebounds, and the Toronto Raptors beat Detroit 112-91 Wednesday night to hand the slumping Pistons their sixth consecutive loss.    

  • [New York Times] Parker Has 25 in Spurs 112-90 Win Over Mavericks (Thu, 09 Jan 2014 02:39:22 GMT)
    Tony Parker scored 25 points and Tim Duncan had 16 points and 13 rebounds, and the San Antonio Spurs never trailed, cruising past the Dallas Mavericks 112-90 Wednesday night.    

  • 97 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.01.09)

    1. Frank O.

      So, no reason to get upset with Rodman about his rant. His explanation takes care of it.
      He was drunk…
      Perfect.

      He probably goes to NK for the free booze, drugs and women.
      Perfect situation for Charles Smith to association his carefully-built reputation.

    2. hoolahoop

      “I watch every game, every night,” Lebron James said. “So I understand the Knicks are playing much better than they were, especially on that Texas road trip they had.”

      . . . the Knicks to have to play the Miami Heat. “Is that who we play next?” Carmelo Anthony asked. “Honest, I did not know.”

    3. cgreene

      It’s funny. When Tyson went down with his “upper respiratory infection” I was going to comment that I’d bet that he would be out 3 weeks or so. In all seriousness. So medically (unless he is in the hospital or has some major illness like pneumonia) a dose of antibiotics would kill off most infections in a matter of days. Dude has a weak fucking immune system. And to be honest it annoys the crap out of me. If the Knicks are being extra cautious in making sure he doesn’t lose weight/strength then fine. If a 30 year old finely tuned athlete takes 10 days to recover from illnesses he apparently gets from his kids then pffft. I get sick from my kids. I show up to work. I don’t make $15M.

    4. Frank

      Lol so Tyson is doubtful for tonight. It will seriously humorous to watch the Miami Heat offense against an Amare/Bargnani/Melo frontcourt. I wonder what the one game record for number of dunks is?

    5. chrisk06811

      Remember when D’Antoni was the coach, and Nate pissed him off…..and he sat him…..for like 12 games. and when Nate came back, he was humble (for alittle while) and acted like he’d learned his lesson? Isn’t it time for that? When D’Antoni is your role model for necessary discipline, that’s not good.

    6. johnno

      cgreene — I go to work sick too. But, then again, I work in an office and nobody notices or cares if I am moving a little slower than usual or I get winded easily because I’m sick. They might notice or care if my job involved trying to wrestle with/keep up with 270 pound world class athletes. It’s not like, if I can’t move quickly enough, some competitor is going to come charging into my office and slam a ream of copy paper off the top of my head.

    7. hoolahoop

      “I watch every game, every night,” Lebron James said. “So I understand the Knicks are playing much better than they were, especially on that Texas road trip they had.”

      . . . the Knicks to have to play the Miami Heat. “Is that who we play next?” Carmelo Anthony asked. “Honest, I did not know.”

      . . . you know he was joking right? Or is your hate that blinding?

      Melo said that after that after the Pistons game. If he was joking, why is it getting reported, repeatedly?

    8. er

      —Melo said that after that after the Pistons game. If he was joking, why is it getting reported, repeatedly?

      Cuz people are dumb

    9. KnickfaninNJ

      If Bargnani is out for tonight’s game, that is just as much trouble as if Chandler is. I think Bargnani can defend Bosh better than Chandler can. Maybe Woody might actually do the two point guard thing tonight.

    10. er

      K Mart has proven to be more important to the team than chandler this year. K Marts ability to initiate the offense has been key.

      @hoolahoop even if he didnt know, who cares? Isnt that a good thing not looking forward to opponents

    11. hoolahoop

      “I watch every game, every night,” Lebron James said. “So I understand the Knicks are playing much better than they were, especially on that Texas road trip they had.”

      . . . the Knicks to have to play the Miami Heat. “Is that who we play next?” Carmelo Anthony asked. “Honest, I did not know.”

      ————————————-

      er: @hoolahoop even if he didnt know, who cares? Isnt that a good thing not looking forward to opponents

      I’m sorry if you can’t understand the difference in level of preparation. Can Melo do anything wrong in your eyes?

    12. er

      So looking forward to Miami helps how? They play 4 times a year, i dont think there is anything new to prepare for. And you are right Melo can do no wrong in my eyes. Especially not preparing in advance for Miami.

      Interesting development with battier out, Lebron will have to guard melo more which helps.

    13. Nick C.

      How do know he wasn’t being facetious? I know he hasn’t shown a sense of humor but these types of questions must get old.

    14. Hubert

      Just saw this excerpt from the Daily News article above:

      Mike Woodson “absolutely” thought the Knicks were going to compete with the Miami Heat before this season started, and he added Wednesday that he “still (believes) that if we could ever get back whole.”

      Every time he talks he says something that infuriates me.

      Woodson has been a greater detriment to this team’s success this year than our injuries. If given the choice, I would play this season with our injuries but a real coach over giving this coach a season of perfect health.

    15. Hubert

      Remember when D’Antoni was the coach, and Nate pissed him off…..and he sat him…..for like 12 games. and when Nate came back, he was humble (for alittle while) and acted like he’d learned his lesson? Isn’t it time for that? When D’Antoni is your role model for necessary discipline, that’s not good.

      Remember when last month we benched JR for the fourth quarter against the Hawks and had the best 4th quarter of the year?

      He went right back to letting JR sink the ship.

      Face it, we need Woodson to get fired, or JR to get injured, or this will never stop.

      I wonder where Jeff Gilooly is.

    16. KnickfaninNJ

      I read that the Knicks exploring trading JR. Not only is he a distraction, but they have Hardaway, Shumpert, and Murry who can use playing time. So I played with the trade machine to see what I could find that might work for both teams. (Note that JR isn’t tradeable til January 15th, so you can’t actually “do” the trade now, but you can see salaries and think about it). It was hard to find a likely trade partner. But I did find the Pistons. They could use scoring from the bench. So what about JR for Jerebko and Singler? I think that might help both teams. The Pistons have enough bigs to do this and JR might help them (they are not a very high scoring team). Any th0ughts?

    17. Garson

      Woodson keeps on saying that we need to get whole and healthy. I’ve heard it on radio interviews and quotes at least 5-8 times.

      What is he talking about?
      Was he refering to Chandler in which we are 3-7 with him in the lineup?
      Prigs, who although i love, is our backup pg ?
      Metta whom averages 5.5 Min a game?

      Aside from Chandler our Core players of Melo, Bargs, Shump , JR, Even Stat have been on the court.

      DUMBASS

    18. johnno

      So, now the knock on Melo is that he doesn’t “prepare” as well as LeBron? Yeesh. Does ANYONE watch Knicks game and think, “Boy, I sure wish that Melo was more prepared for this game”?

    19. chrisk06811

      Pickup game at the morman church tonight; I’m going to spend the entire time trying to untie someone’s shoes. i bet i can do it 5 times

    20. Kevin Udwary

      It was hard to find a likely trade partner. But I did find the Pistons. They could use scoring from the bench.

      Josh Smith and JR Smith on the same team would be absolutely amazing. I would have to watch that team every night just to see what they do next. Who would out dumb who?

    21. Hubert

      Woodson keeps on saying that we need to get whole and healthy. I’ve heard it on radio interviews and quotes at least 5-8 times.

      What is he talking about?
      Was he refering to Chandler in which we are 3-7 with him in the lineup?
      Prigs, who although i love, is our backup pg ?
      Metta whom averages 5.5 Min a game?

      Aside from Chandler our Core players of Melo, Bargs, Shump , JR, Even Stat have been on the court.

      DUMBASS

      What really irks me is why no one covering this team ever follows up and let’s this bullshit ride. It seems like everyone covering this team hears his crap and just runs off to twitter to laugh about it instead of following up with the questions the situation demands.

    22. Hubert

      Jr goes for close to 30 and 7 ast tonight. Book it

      I’d buy 7 points on 30 shots.

      As an aside, I think Charlotte would take him if we were actually willing to trade him. But I don’t think we are.

    23. Garson

      What really irks me is why no one covering this team ever follows up and let’s this bullshit ride. It seems like everyone covering this team hears his crap and just runs off to twitter to laugh about it instead of following up with the questions the situation demands.

      At first I figured he was saying this to extend his coaching stay until chandler came back.

      However ,After Dolan secured his Job, and Chandler came back , he still rambled on about waiting to get whole.

      I think the only reporter with Balls to ask him is Frank Isola, but i think Dolan has a restraining order out on him.

    24. KnickfaninNJ

      As an aside, I think Charlotte would take him if we were actually willing to trade him. But I don’t think we are.

      They definitely could use scoring, but the only guy whose salary matches up and is not a guard is Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. I think I would do that deal, but I don’t know him very well. And I don’t know what Charlotte would think of this deal. He’s injured at the moment, so in that sense he would fit right in with the Knicks.

      The possible trade news is straight from ESPN

    25. Igno-Bot 3000

      Nobody is taking JR. He has a top-5 worst contract in the league with the way he’s playing right now.

    26. DRed

      Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. I think I would do that deal, but I don’t know him very well.

      Kidd-Gilchrist is 20 years old, is already better than JR, not a headcase and was the second over all pick in 2012. As poorly run as Charlotte is, it’s safe to say they’re not dealing him for Earl Jr.

    27. hoolahoop

      johnno: So, now the knock on Melo is that he doesn’t “prepare” as well as LeBron? Yeesh. Does ANYONE watch Knicks game and think, “Boy, I sure wish that Melo was more prepared for this game”?

      er:So looking forward to Miami helps how? They play 4 times a year, i dont think there is anything new to prepare for. And you are right Melo can do no wrong in my eyes. Especially not preparing in advance for Miami.

      I wish you were joking, but I know you’re not.

      Watching a game, you’re not going to necessarily notice the preparation. It can be subtle. Like, if player A goes left, he’s 50% less efficient going to the rim. Or, If player B, catches the ball at spot Z he almost always shoots, but at point Y, he fakes right and drives left. Or, one of many things that players pick up on each other.

      That’s the difference of being the great, or just being very good. That’s the difference of winning a game by one point. In the end, only you know that play you made in the 2nd quarter that gave your team the extra two points it needed to win was a result of your preparation. It’s about getting paid $20 million dollars a year and giving your employer more back in return than he’s paying you. It’s about pride. It’s about going down in history as the best. The very very very best.

      Ask Larry Bird or Michael Jordan – or Lebron James – if preparation, extra preparation, and dedication to being the very best they can be is just a waste of time.

      The first in the gym and the last to leave. The fruits of preparation are apparent at the final buzzer, the end of the season, and the end or a career.

      Melo, now in his prime, is at a fork in the road. His god given talent is on par with anyone in the league. Will he be another George Gervin, Vince Carter, Dominique Wilkins, or MJ, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Lebron?

    28. johnno

      I don’t know, does he get to play alongside Pippen, Jabbar, Worthy, Parrish, McHale, Shaq, Wade and Bosh, or does he get to play alongside the guys who Gervin, Carter and Wilkins played with?

    29. er

      You know they watch film right @ hoolahoop? You are reaching SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much i wouldnt be suprised if you pulled a muscle in your back

      Melo has been playing lebron for 13 years. Stop it man. You are embarassing yourself. They watch film and practice. If Lebron wants to watch every game on tv thats his business.

    30. ruruland

      Can’t believe Chandler is missing a third game with a chest cold, could really use his screening against Miami, but the Knicks won’t be missing rim protection.

      Someone asked where I found the rim protection metrics.

      Here:
      http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefense.html

      Chandler allows opponents to shoot 50.6 from the field in front of the rim. He’s ahead of guys like Dejuan Blair, Deandre Jordan, Marcin Gortat, Enes Kanter, Zaza Puchulia, Nikola Pekovic (who is awful defensively along with Love), Varejao (interestingly), Dalambert, Bosh, Faried, Cousins and Boozer.

      Who’s been better at protecting the rim this season?

      Bargnani, Spencer Hawes, Martin, Favors, Hill, Jermaine O’Neal, David Lee, Vucevic, West, Stoudemire (said last year he’s better at defending the rim), Horford, Howard, Plumlee, Duncan, Valancunias, Davis, Garnett (who is still very good at the rim), Mozgov, Mahinmi,

      Guys significantly better than Chandler: Ibaka, Bogut, Amir Johnson, Noah, Brand, Gibson, Hibbert, Lopez, Sanders, Biyombo, Perkins, Bynum.

      I only looked at bigs who had to defend 3 or more shots at rim a game. Guards and small forwards are included on the list but they generally defend far fewer shots at rim.

      Chandler gave up 51.4% on close shots last season, so this is nothing new: http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/The%20Dwight%20Effect%20A%20New%20Ensemble%20of%20Interior%20Defense%20Analytics%20for%20the%20NBA.pdf

      The Knicks are 1.7 points per 100 possessions better on defense with Chandler on the bench this year. They were .2 points per 100 possessions better on defense with Chandler on the bench last season.

    31. Owen

      Even mentioning Melo in the same sentence as MJ, Magic, Bird, or James is a travesty.

      Vince Carter is a great comp….

    32. max fisher-cohen

      I would trade Smith and Shumpert for Kidd-Gilchrist. The kid can’t shoot, but he is a monster athlete and already one of the best wing defenders in the league. He also has a year longer on his rookie deal than Shumpert and is THREE YEARS YOUNGER. MKG is younger than Shumpert was in his first NBA game.

    33. KnickfaninNJ

      Kidd-Gilchrist is 20 years old, is already better than JR, not a headcase and was the second over all pick in 2012. As poorly run as Charlotte is, it’s safe to say they’re not dealing him for Earl Jr.

      I had a suspicion something like this might be the case, but I didn’t know for sure. It was the only trade that worked dollar wise and gave the Knicks a useful player from Charlotte. I don’t want to get rid of JR for nothing. He’ll probably go on a hot streak at some point in the season and help the team out. And, despite his issues, I think he still has value around the league.

    34. Frank O.

      Pickup game at the morman church tonight; I’m going to spend the entire time trying to untie someone’s shoes. i bet i can do it 5 times

      Mormons always double-knot.

    35. Hubert

      I was talking about straight dumping him. Like, JR & Beno for Ramon Sessions’ expiring contract and one of their vet’s minimum guys.

      We’re better the second he walks out the door. Let’s not be greedy and try to get something back. It’s not like we’re dealing with us on the other end.

    36. ruruland

      IDK, he’s horrible now, but if he plays as he normally does in the second half he’d be a significant asset. And he’d be tradeable then, too.

    37. KnickfaninNJ

      Looking at stats I am not sure you can say Kidd-Gilchrist is already better than JR. He does get more rebounds, and I believe you that he’s a better defender, but he gets hardly any assists. He is much younger; there’s no comparison there.

    38. ephus

      Grantland has a good article on JR Smith that says a lot of the things that we have already said here. I’ve linked to the Goldsberry shot chart, which is worth a look. JR Smith is getting to the rim less frequently and shooting much worse than last year – 42% vs. 52% LY. He is abysmal from midrange, shooting only 31% vs. 40% LY. His three point shooting has been bad, except from the left side and left corner.

      His left side prowess has come when he has been fed out of the post by Carmelo Anthony.

    39. Hubert

      It’s funny, ruru, when you mentioned his post February stats I immediately wondered if he tanks the first half of seasons so that he won’t get traded. Wouldn’t put it past him.

      I get what you’re saying, and I know he’s going to shoot better, but it’s fool’s gold. It will just earn him the chance to submarine our season at a later date.

      If I trusted our coach to manage his minutes properly and not play him over more deserving players, or give him unlimited crunch time minutes, I’d be for keeping him around. But I don’t. Those two need to be separated. They’re killing each other.

    40. DRed

      Well, we’ve established that Bargnani is a great rim protector, so he should anchor our defense. But wait-we’re about 5 points worse on defense with him on the court. Well, I guess we should go to Stat? As we know from last year’s game threads, he’s an elite class hedger. Possibly the premier hedging bigman in the NBA. Ah, but alas! We’re 6 points worse on D with Stat out there. That leaves us one option-Mr. Fugazi himself, Kenyon Martin. Mr. Martin actually thrives on defense with the on/off people. We’re a whopping 8 points better on D with Kenyon on the floor. Unfortunately, the pansy has a widdle runny nose, and he might not be playing tonight. But no matter-we’ll turn to elite defender Metta World Peace, who has consistently ranked as one of the best on/off lockdown defenders in the National Basketball Association, this year included. Oh? He has a knee ouchy? LOLOL. I guess we’re boned then, right?

    41. ruruland

      Hey ephus, yeah, good posts in the past on the subject and the links you’ve posted have been helpful, too. But JR was not getting to the rim much in the first half last year, either. I’m not sure how extreme the shot distribution changes were, but it was night and day. It just makes it challenging to compare his entire year to what he’s done so far this season.

      But I absolutely think he needs to be traded. Unfortunately, I don’t think he’s going to last much longer in the NBA.

      And Dred, really?

    42. DRed

      Looking at stats I am not sure you can say Kidd-Gilchrist is already better than JR. He does get more rebounds, and I believe you that he’s a better defender, but he gets hardly any assists. He is much younger; there’s no comparison there

      He’s crushing JR in TS% this year, and Kidd-Gilchrist can’t even shoot. JR has had better years than K-G in the past, but given their ages and how awful JR has been this year (setting aside all the bonehead shit) there’s not a GM in the NBA who would make that deal.

      And we all know Kidd-Gilchrist’s shooting percentage would skyrocket if he got to play with Carmelo.

    43. Igno-Bot 3000

      I’d be more worried if JR wasn’t injured right now. He’s shooting at a historically low rate and is not getting to the line at all, even less than at the beginning of last season. If he is hurt, though, why is he playing 30 minutes/game? It really seems to be lose-lose.

    44. cgreene

      Wow. You truly think that Melo has the same attitude towards the game as Vince Carter? I mean that guy has a rep for being one of the pillow softest guys to ever play with Jordan like talent. I dont see that at all.

    45. ruruland

      Melo benefits players who can make open jump shots and can positively modify teammates shot distributions.

      Players that struggle making open shots will not see any benefit playing with Melo.

      Tyson Chandler significantly improves Melo’s efficiency as a pick and roll ballhandler because he sets great screens and allows Melo to attack big men downhill. He’s a big part of the Knicks 3-point shooting when Felton is in the game.

    46. ruruland

      Owen only understands the game through WS and WP. Scottie Pippen finished with a career .145 WS, so obviously Melo is very similar to him, too.

    47. johnlocke

      @ hoolahoop – you realize that Lebron was either joking or lying when he says he watches every game, every single night right? You’re talking about over 2,000 regular season games over the span of 240 days (8 months). So unless he spends 8+ hours a day, or 1/2 of his waking day, watching games I think he was lying too…

    48. DRed

      And Dred, really?

      First of all, the R is capitalized. My name is my name. Second, yes, really. Your trolling about Tyson being sick is tiresome. The Knicks had 4 guys healthy enough to practice yesterday.

      As for the rim protection, I’m pretty fine with saying Tyson isn’t an elite rim protector. But the metrics are a lot more complicated than you make them out to be, because of your overall anti-Tyson agenda. Let’s take my favorite whipping boy, Bargnani, as an example. You claim Bargnani has been better at protecting the rim this season than Tyson, because Tyson allows opponents to make 50.6% of their shots around the rim. Okay, against Bargnani the number is. . .50%. So, ignoring that Tyson contests more shots than Bargnani, it’s still not cut and dried that Bargs is a better “rim protector” than Tyson.

      Second, this data has only been available to us for about 2 seasons. So it’s not easy to say how much of this rim protection is the result of a single player or his teammates/defensive scheme. If we look at Bargs again, he was the second best player in the NBA at proximal FG defense in the sloan study. This year he’s much worse. Is that because he forgot how to rim protect, because he went to a different team, or something else?

      Finally, rim protection is just one aspect of defense. Chandler is pretty clearly a better defender than Bargnani. So while it’s interesting to point out that Bargs may protect the rim better than Tyson, ultimately, does it really matter?

    49. ephus

      Unless JR Smith starts playing better, the only trades that I could see the Knicks getting would require them to take back worse and longer contracts, like:

      JR to Philadelphia for Jason Richardson (2 years left)
      JR & Felton to Boston for Gerald Wallace (3 years left)
      JR to Brooklyn for Jason Terry (who has been worse than JR) (2 years left)
      JR to Sacramento for Thompson (4! years left)
      JR to Memphis for Courtney Lee (3 years left)

      Do the Knicks really want to sacrifice 2015 salary cap space to get rid of JR Smith? I think they have to allow him to restore some value or keep him on the bench.

    50. ruruland

      At what point have I ever come close to claiming that AB was anywhere near the overall defender Chandler is?

      When Chandler wants to be, he can be a great defender. AB is better or comparable to him in a few ways. But overall, even on a bad day, of course not.

      That said, Chandler has been a very average defensive player the last two seasons.

      I’m not a Chandler hater. I know he’s the sacred cow in the media and on boards like this, but his value is often greatly overstated. I only point that out on occasion.

    51. flossy

      Do the Knicks really want to sacrifice 2015 salary cap space to get rid of JR Smith?

      Didn’t they already sacrifice 2015 cap space to sign JR Smith? I suppose he could be dumb enough to decline his $6.3 mil player option for ’15-’16, but I wouldn’t count on it.

    52. DRed

      I’m not a Chandler hater. I know he’s the sacred cow in the media and on boards like this, but his value is often greatly overstated. I only point that out on occasion.

      Ah, well I apologize. Thank you for pointing out that Tyson has chosen not to be a good defender since he came back from breaking his leg.

    53. ephus

      Didn’t they already sacrifice 2015 cap space to sign JR Smith? I suppose he could be dumb enough to decline his $6.3 mil player option for ’15-’16, but I wouldn’t count on it.

      My guess – and I could be wildly wrong – is that there is no way that JR Smith enjoys the third year of that contract. Either he will have righted the ship, in which case he will opt out to get more $$$

      OR

      He will have done something to get thrown out of the league.

    54. ruruland

      Jim Rome and Cowherd were shitting on Melo today (as Cowherd has been doing every week for the last 18 months or so). Rome had Boeheim on to defend Melo, and he talked about his lack of supporting cast.

      Just thought it would be interesting to go down the list of rotation players who’ve played alongside Melo in NY, and where they are today (and yes, some of that is Melo’s fault).

      Guys who’ve played with Melo in playoffs.
      Tony Douglas started 3 games in Celtics series, hasn’t started a single game since.
      Anthony Carter retired.
      Roger Mason is the 12th man in Miami.
      Shawne Williams waived by Lakers
      Jared Jeffries no longer in league.
      Ronny Turiaf third big in Minnesota
      Chauncey Billups 4th point guard in Detroit.
      Landry Fields bench warmer in Toronto.
      Steve Novak bench warmer in Toronto.
      Chris Copeland bench warmer in Indiana.
      Josh Harrelson Detroit.
      Mike Bibby retired.
      Jason Kidd retired.
      Baron Davis retired.

      The best players alongisde Melo in playoffs have been a hobbled Tyson Chandler (who hasn’t really shown up in playoffs) Amar’e (you know that story), and JR Smith (you know that story). Jeremy Lin might have been the best player out of the group had he been healthy.

      That’s incredible.

    55. Hubert

      JR to Philadelphia for Jason Richardson (2 years left)

      I would do this trade all day. One less year on the contract, lines up with 2015, and gives Shumpert and Hardaway more playing time to develop. And gets JR out of our crunch time lineup. Wins all around.

      JR & Felton to Boston for Gerald Wallace (3 years left)

      I’d pass on this.

      JR to Brooklyn for Jason Terry (who has been worse than JR) (2 years left)

      I’d take him. For the same reasons as Richardson.

      JR to Sacramento for Thompson (4! years left)

      No way (extra year)

      JR to Memphis for Courtney Lee (3 years left)

      How the hell did Boston manage to move this guy? This is how I know we’re not trying to move JR. I would have loved to have traded him for Bayless.

      Anyway, I think JR & Beno for Sessions’ expiring and some vets’ min guys to even out the salaries would work. Guys like Jordan probably think they can maximize a guy like JR. Plus JR hit that game-winning shot in front of him last year. Probably impressed him. (And Sessions would be our best PG!)

    56. ruruland

      “Thank you for pointing out that Tyson has chosen not to be a good defender since he came back from breaking his leg.”

      He wasn’t very good last year when he was healthy.

    57. Frank O.

      Chandler’s biggest issue in terms of performance is he is injury prone. Either he sits out or, worse, he tries to play through it. When he is hurting, he’s simply a liability.
      The knock on the Knicks when they got Chandler was that he had trouble staying healthy, and that has been the case.
      Last season he was constantly dinged up. This year, much of the same.
      When he is healthy, he is an elite defender. Problem is he’s rarely healthy these days.
      Can anyone remember the last time the Knicks picked up a young, durable player that remained that way and became elite??? Was it Patrick?

    58. DRed

      The best players along side Tyson Chandler in the playoffs have been a hobbled Carmelo Anthony (who hasn’t really shown up in the playoffs) Amar’e (you know that story), and JR Smith (you know that story). Jeremy Lin might have been the best player out of the group had he been health (and if Melo hadn’t run him out of town).

      That’s incredible.

      See, ruru, it’s all about perspective. Or you could say both Tyson and Melo have kinda sucked (relative to their regular season performances) in the playoffs during their Knicks career.

    59. Hubert

      @63, no offense, RuRu, but that’s kind of galling. You know as well as anyone that a lot of the ill will towards Melo from the non-WoW disciples stems from the fact that he forced us to trade for him. I like him as a player but I’m still bitter about it.

      He made his bed. And he made us lie in it.

    60. Hubert

      Can anyone remember the last time the Knicks picked up a young, durable player that remained that way and became elite??? Was it Patrick?

      Depends on your definition of elite, but Allan Houston comes to mind.

    61. ephus

      If Phoenix wants to try to compete this year, here is a trade that works:

      Felton/Prigioni + JR Smith to Phoenix
      Okafor to Philadelphia
      Jason Richardson to NY.

      Knicks get rid of JR Smith.
      Philadelphia gets rid of Jason Richardson contract next year. They would rather pay Okafor $7 million to not play this year then Richardson $9 million to not play for the rest of this year and the balance of next year.
      Phoenix gets a serviceable PG until Bledsoe returns.

    62. ruruland

      “He made his bed. And he made us lie in it.”

      I mentioned that in the post.

      But it’s not all his fault. Chandler being hurt and totally ineffective. Amar’e and Billups’ injuries, etc.

      But yes, he deserves criticism for poor roster construction. That’s why he’s going to take less money on his next contract.

    63. ruruland

      You really think Chandler and Melo have been equally bad in the playoffs?

      That’s laughable, especially when you consider how much more Melo is asked to do overall.

    64. flossy

      My guess – and I could be wildly wrong – is that there is no way that JR Smith enjoys the third year of that contract. Either he will have righted the ship, in which case he will opt out to get more $$$

      OR

      He will have done something to get thrown out of the league.

      I don’t know, I think would take something a lot more spectacular than simply “righting the ship” for him to get opt out for more money heading into a season where he’ll be 31 (!!!). Getting thrown out of the league seems within the realm of possibility, though I wouldn’t manage my salary cap around that hope…

    65. Frank O.

      Truth be told though, Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Mosgov, Felton, Anthony Randolph and Edy Curry, all have had either significant injuries, have developed only as role players with limited roles, are out of the league, or sucking for us again.

      Now maybe as a team they would have been better than the sum of their parts if they remained Knicks around Amare. Also, if the Knicks had been able to hold back Mosgov or maybe Chandler, they might have had a strong role on this particular team.
      In the end, though, Melo has been better than I thought and has improved defensively and in offensive efficiency.

    66. Frank O.

      That’s why he’s going to take less money on his next contract.

      what makes you believe this? I mean, why test free agency, as he said he would do at the start of the season, if he intends to take less? His comments and yours seem incongruous.

      And there have been several news reports that would indicate his fears about the Knicks ability to compete for a championship…

    67. DRed

      Melo has sucked in the playoffs. I think that because he’s been pretty bad. A .496 TS% on a 36 usg is appalling. Now, yes-he was hurt last year. So I don’t ‘blame’ Melo for sucking. It’s not like I think he couldn’t handle the playoff atmosphere. I think his shoulder was fucked up. But he did suck.

    68. ruruland

      As I’ve explained before, I think Melo wants to test free agency in part because it’s an ego stroke (he’s never been a FA before) and in part because he wants to see if there’s a better situation for him.

      I think he wants to finish his career in NY for many reasons, but I don’t see him taking extra money so he can put himself in the exact same position he’s been in the last 4 years.

    69. JK47

      Sure, Melo has shitty teammates here, and he will ALWAYS have shitty teammates here because of the idiotic way this franchise approaches roster construction.

      As soon as the bad contracts come off the books in 2015, the first thing this team is gonna do is reload with more terrible contracts to go alongside Melo’s mega-max, and then fill out the rest of the roster with whatever “name” players are willing to come here for the veteran’s minimum, and in 2018 we’ll still be sitting here talking about how it’s not Melo’s fault that the Knicks suck, it’s his shitty teammates that are the problem.

    70. ephus

      The thing that makes no sense is for Melo to ETO out of $23.5 million next year in order to resign in NY for less money (like 5/100). No matter how low of a salary Melo takes, he cannot get them cap room this summer. So he would be taking a pay cut to come back with the same flawed roster.

      If Melo were willing to waive his ETO (in return for the Knicks not trading him), he could take less than max money in the summer of 2015 in order to bring together a power trio (like Melo/Rondo/Love).

    71. JK47

      If Melo takes less money on his next contract so James Dolan can have a little extra to distribute to the JR Smiths and Ray Feltons of tomorrow, he is not a very smart person.

    72. Frank

      The thing that makes no sense is for Melo to ETO out of $23.5 million next year in order to resign in NY for less money (like 5/100). No matter how low of a salary Melo takes, he cannot get them cap room this summer. So he would be taking a pay cut to come back with the same flawed roster.

      If Melo were willing to waive his ETO (in return for the Knicks not trading him), he could take less than max money in the summer of 2015 in order to bring together a power trio (like Melo/Rondo/Love).

      I don’t know – makes perfect sense to me to trade in a 1 year contract for a 5 year contract. The annual $ might be less than if he waited until after next year, but he’ll have the $ guaranteed a full year sooner. What if he doesn’t opt out and then tears a patella next year?

      I personally don’t blame him at all for wanting to test free agency, if for no other reason than to see what other teams’ plans for him might be. Who knows, maybe there is a completely perfect situation for him – such as if a team with tons of cap space (like Philly for instance) wins the lottery, drafts a young stud like Jabari or Wiggins etc. (and has another lottery pick from New Orleans), already has MCW and Noel, and offers him the max? That would at least be worth thinking about.

      And remember – even if Melo takes a smaller per-year deal from NYK, that extra year means everything because it’s guaranteed. Even though the 5 year $115MM deal I suggested in a previous post is “only” $23MM/year, less than the $24MM/year he could make on a 4 year/96MM deal on another team, it’s still $19MM more guaranteed — which is almost certainly more than he would be able to make at the end of that 4 year deal (especially if he were injured or aged badly).

      And ephus – he could take the max-allowable pay cut in 2015-16 season in order to create some more cap space (~$3.5MM or so) for the big FA bonanza.

    73. Frank

      Re-posting from a few days ago because it’s what we’re talking about — this is the structure of what I would propose to Melo if I were Steve Mills:

      2014-15 – 22.5MM (max allowable)
      2015-16 – 20.8MM (prev salary minus 7.5% = maximum allowed decrease in salary)
      2016-17 – 22.4MM (prev salary + 7.5% = maximum allowed raise from previous year)
      2017-18 – 24.05 MM (prev salary +7.5%)
      2018-19 – 25.8MM (prev salary + 7.5%)
      Total is 5 years ~115MM.

      And remember – all new FA deals are 4 year max (unless it’s a sign and trade which we can’t do). So that would mean that the new FAs we signed in 2015 would expire at the same time as Melo. Perfectly synchronized unless we go and offer unnecessarily long deals to whoever the new Raymond Feltons and Steve Novaks are in 2016.

    74. iserp

      Frank, i am not sure you are allowed to decrease the salary one year and then increase it. I think the increases/decreases have to be the same every year.

    75. Cock Jowles, #1 Nostradumbass

      My name is my name.

      A good way to put this season, to the average Knickerblogger:

      “You want it one way, but it’s the other way.”

    76. AvonBarksdale

      Melo has himself to blame for his supporting cast, especially Jeremy Lin so it’s hard to look at a list of crappy players and not put some of that back on Melo..he had opportunity along the way to make different choices who he plays with. I understand his wanting max money so i don’t expect him to take responsibility when other factors play a part but he has to know staying here and taking a small increase right now would improve his overall brand/star/endorsement marketability….like the opposite of the decision he should sign a contract extension after the heat blow us out tonight during postgame interviews. sidenote:JR deserves to be benched bottom line and listening to Woodson on the Stephen A. Smith show is kinda like glimpsing communist cuba everyone can only say so much before big brother rears his evil ears..why would anyone accept his answers about being whole it’s gibberish. he admits he doesn’t know what to do about JR? it’s insane like his hands are so tied, he doesn’t play cole aldrich or toure and doesnt’ use the two pg lineups at all which used to work. it’s complete nonsense. Go Knicks!

    77. ephus

      Frank is absolutely correct that the Knicks could make the offer he describes in #84. For a Full Bird contract, there can be a maximum raise/reduction of 7.5% each year, regardless of whether there had been a raise/reduction in any prior or subsequent year. The Knicks did something similar in the Novak contract.

    78. AvonBarksdale

      ooh wire quotes my favorite, i told JR to quit twitter the other day and noticed him conversing with Snoop on his feed, she asked for tickets and he is hitting her back with some. i think they did a music video together…she should put the nail gun to use on JR’s tweeting.

    79. knickster

      It’s hard to believe Melo will opt out of a contract to sign a new one for less money. He has absolutely nothing to gain by doing that. If he really wanted to stay in New York, he would not opt out, make more money and tell everyone that he loves the knicks and would like to be part of a better future (whatever that means).

      The only reason he would opt out is to get more money or a good contract from other team – neither of those two possibilities is good for the Knicks.

      The Knicks will NEVER compete for a ring with a team built around Melo. He is a great player, but not nearly good enough at a max salary. His value (not his game) is severely overrated. He would be good at 3 more years of 17 millions, though…

    80. hoolahoop

      you realize that Lebron was either joking or lying when he says he watches every game, every single night right? You’re talking about over 2,000 regular season games over the span of 240 days (8 months). So unless he spends 8+ hours a day, or 1/2 of his waking day, watching games I think he was lying too…

      Of course he doesn’t watch every game in the NBA to it’s entirety. The point he was making was that he’s a basketball junkie that watches everyone around the league and is keenly aware of what’s going on in the NBA and presumably, studying to improve his competitive advantage. Commitment through passion.

    81. max fisher-cohen

      It may be that Melo just wants to keep his options open and have the security of a longer term contract even if it’s less annually. However, I think one thing that’s going to weigh more and more on his mind after this season is over, especially if NY doesn’t make the playoffs, is the fact that this team is only going to get worse. If they really want to gear up for 2015 and two big free agent signings, then they’ll probably want to trade Shumpert, Chandler, Felton and Smith (the latter two to clear cap space, the former two for whatever future assets they can get as NY won’t have cap space to retain them), which means probably a 15-30 win season. That’s great long term for the Knicks as they’ll get a good draft pick, but it seems basically unheard of for a 30 year old star to opt in to a year of crappiness, and for less money to boot, on the hope that the top 2015 free agents come to NY.

      All of this could and should happen before the trade deadline as it’ll give NY a lot more trade options — they can take expirings or guys with a year and change left.

      All of this probably won’t happen unless the Knicks are virtually eliminated from playoff contention before the trade deadline and the moves get the support of the Melo tribe.

      What probably will happen is Chicago will trade Dunleavy and Gibson and Houston will trade Lin and Asik, and Melo will have two pretty big market teams offering him max deals to play with other stars. If it’s winning he’s worried about, he’ll go to one of those teams.

    82. Z

      go down the list of rotation players who’ve played alongside Melo in NY, and where they are today (and yes, some of that is Melo’s fault).

      But the list is moot because, as you said, some of that is Melo’s fault. (Though it can be argued that “some” is actually “a lot”, especially once you factor the ousting of D’Antoni and Lin, and the importation of JR Smith)

      maybe as a team they would have been better than the sum of their parts if they remained Knicks around Amare.

      Remember, Chris Paul became available shortly after the MeloDrama. If we’d passed on Anthony, there’s a good chance we’d have Paul right now (and who knows what else).

      Chandler’s biggest issue in terms of performance is he is injury prone. Either he sits out or, worse, he tries to play through it. When he is hurting, he’s simply a liability.

      And hence the problems with investing 90% of the salary cap into three veteran players. Older people break down more. And when they do it’s devastating.

      OR He will have done something to get thrown out of the league.

      What exactly does he need to do to get kicked out of the league?? (You can’t get kicked out of the league for smoking pot, making inappropriate tweets, or for untying opponents shoe laces, can you??)

    83. Z

      go down the list of rotation players who’ve played alongside Melo in NY, and where they are today

      Yet, for some reason Landry Fields, Steve Novak, and Jarrod Jeffries had no problem playing winning basketball with Jeremy Lin (after failing while surrounding Anthony)…

    84. maxwell_3g

      why does barkley feel that Shump falls into a category of players that just want to shoot it?? if that is the case, he must feel very unfulfilled, as he never gets to actually shoot… and why does the media love tyson chandler so much??? i mean, i like him, but i think the myth of tyson is a little overblown

    Comments are closed.