Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, September 22, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2013.11.12)

  • [New York Daily News] Melo feeling the pressure after Dolan’s guarantee (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 03:27:21 GMT)
    Hearing that the Garden chairman James Dolan has guaranteed a Knicks’ victory Wednesday in Atlanta, Carmelo Anthony knows that the pressure is on and he’s going to try to deliver for the man who signs his paychecks.    

  • [New York Times] Trail Blazers Down Pistons 109-103 (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 06:42:45 GMT)
    Damian Lillard scored 25 points, making five 3-pointers, and the Portland Trail Blazers held off the Detroit Pistons 109-103 on Monday night.    

  • [New York Times] Clippers Edge Timberwolves 109-107 (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 06:12:58 GMT)
    Blake Griffin had 25 points and 10 rebounds, Chris Paul added 21 points and the Los Angeles Clippers held off the Minnesota Timberwolves 109-107 on Monday night after Kevin Love missed a tip-in at the buzzer.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Rockets Go 2 Overtimes to End Skid (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 05:15:43 GMT)
    Jeremy Lin score 31 points off the bench, and Dwight Howard had a double-double to help the Rockets end a two-game losing streak and win over the Raptors.    

  • [New York Times] Nuggets Dominate 4th, Beat Winless Jazz 100-81 (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 05:10:07 GMT)
    Andre Miller scored nine of his season-high 15 points in the fourth quarter and the Denver Nuggets defeated the winless Utah Jazz 100-81 on Monday night.    

  • [New York Times] Rose Departs Bulls’ Victory With Hamstring Injury (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 05:04:03 GMT)
    The Chicago Bulls were in the process of pulling away from the Cleveland Cavaliers when the game was robbed of any real significance.    

  • [New York Times] Rockets Outlast Raptors 110-104 in 2 OTs (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 04:48:35 GMT)
    Jeremy Lin scored 31 points off the bench, Dwight Howard had 18 points and 24 rebounds, and the Houston Rockets beat the Toronto Raptors 110-104 in double-overtime to snap a two-game losing streak.    

  • [New York Times] On Holiday, a Local Lesson for the Nets (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 03:50:03 GMT)
    Before an upcoming three-game trip, the Nets held an open practice at Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn, and learned some history about the borough they now call home.    

  • [New York Times] Pacers Roll Past Memphis 95-79 to Stay Unbeaten (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 03:48:39 GMT)
    Eight straight wins isn’t enough for the perfect Pacers.    

  • [New York Times] Bradley Leads Celtics’ 120-105 Win Over Magic (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 03:06:47 GMT)
    Avery Bradley scored 24 points as the Boston Celtics beat the Orlando Magic for the second time in four days, 120-105 on Monday night.    

  • [New York Times] Horford Scores 24 as Hawks Beat Bobcats 103-94 (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 03:06:42 GMT)
    Al Horford scored 24 points and the Atlanta Hawks defeated Charlotte 103-94 to hand Bobcats coach Steve Clifford a loss in his first game back since undergoing a heart procedure.    

  • [New York Times] Knicks Scrimmage Hard and Seek Answers (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 02:35:50 GMT)
    With members of the front office watching, the Knicks held a tough practice a day after a 31-point loss to the Spurs that dropped them to 2-4.    

  • [New York Times] Spurs Cruise to Easy Win Over 76ers (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 02:18:41 GMT)
    Danny Green scored 18 points, Tony Parker had 14 and the San Antonio Spurs rolled to an easy 109-85 victory over the Philadelphia 76ers on Monday night.    

  • [New York Times] Bobcats’ Clifford Returns After Heart Procedure (Tue, 12 Nov 2013 00:39:51 GMT)
    Bobcats coach Steve Clifford returned to the court Monday night, three days after having two stents placed in his heart.    

  • 54 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2013.11.12)

    1. KnickfaninNJ

      For some reason that I don’t understand, Woody seems to be completely unwilling to play players for defense. He always picks scorers over defending. He won’t play Aldrich, presumably for his lack of offense, and I doubt he wants Collins for the same reason. But when you lose 120 to 89, it’s clear your defense was more of the problem than your offense.

    2. Brian Cronin

      This loltastic gif is out there of our friend Bargs http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1846416-andrea-bargnani-plays-embarrassing-defense-against-the-spurs” rel=”nofollow”

      While it really isn’t that big of a deal (one isolated bad play doesn’t really mean much), what amazes me is the comments section on the various sites that have posted that gif where people are trying to defend Bargs on that play. It was just a bad play. Whatever, not a big deal, but not something that you have to try to strain yourself to somehow explain away.

      For instance, someone commented to say it was good defense because “He was trying to play both the man he was supposed to be guarding and Leonard.” That is not good defense. He hesitated but ultimately decided to let Manu drift away and then tried to contest the Leonard shot but just did so very poorly. It ended up looking really goofy, which is why the gif has become so popular, but it was just a typical enough poor play. The other Knick defenders are doing poorly on the play, as well, Bargs just looked goofier. However, while it is fair to say that he shouldn’t be singled out when everyone else was bad on the play as well, that doesn’t mean that he didn’t do a bad job, as he clearly did.

    3. marechal

      The other Knick defenders are doing poorly on the play, as well, Bargs just looked goofier. However, while it is fair to say that he shouldn’t be singled out when everyone else was bad on the play as well, that doesn’t mean that he didn’t do a bad job, as he clearly did.

      Melo, in particular, looks totally lost there (as he is prone to be on defense).

    4. AvonBarksdale

      I think he is pretending to try to do something, anything to make it look like he tried on that play but he isn’t really doing anything other than faking effort…it’s just one play but if he was really locked in, or understanding his assignments he wouldn’t have to fake like he knows the flail around in a late knee jerk reaction…he deserves a flopping warning from coach Woodson on the defensive end. He did have some pretty solid defense on one or two plays but this gif is rough. I wish I knew what the hell goes on when the team watches tape

    5. Brian Cronin

      Oh yeah, that play was definitely bad. He did a bad job. I just think that the rest of the team looked bad, as well. But yeah, he certainly should feel embarrassed about his performance on that play.

    6. Mike Kurylo Post author

      @7

      Owen you are completely wrong. Remember the NBA is a billion dollar industry, with only the best and brightest minds running the show. It would be crazy for these people to not understand advanced statistics, and they probably have even better data than you or I have access to.

      If an NBA GM feels that Chris Smith is worthy of a roster spot, then that is validation that he is better than everyone currently not in the NBA. Better than Nick Fazekas. Better than Micheal Eric. Better than Jarvis Varnado. Better than Renaldo Balkman.

    7. Brian Cronin

      The comments on the Deadpin piece has an awesome burn on Dolan regarding the Chris Smith signing, “To be fair to Dolan, what is he supposed to do here? Take a stand against nepotism?”

    8. thenamestsam

      Is there any actual new information in that Woj piece? Seems like it’s just a reheating of everything people have said for years with a little extra dash of sensationalism.

    9. Brian Cronin

      I think the new information is that the Knicks have specifically chosen Love as the guy that they’re going to sell Melo on. “Stay here and we will get Kevin Love.” My guess is that Woj just recently found that information out, so he figured he’d work it into a general “Man, the Knicks are really poorly wrong” article.

    10. ephus

      News (to me at least) in the Woj article:

      1. Chris Smith got paid $490k on the Knicks’ injured reserve last year.
      2. Knicks hired Idan Ravin – Carmelo’s personal trainer.
      3. Knicks believe that the prospect of playing next to Kevin Love will make Carmelo more likely to stay in New York.

      On #3, that seems like a dumb plan because Love seems much more likely to want to head to LA, where he played in college and his family is royalty (the Beach Boys) than NY. It also seems like tampering.

    11. Brian Cronin

      But we knew about the Chris Smith thing last year. If you’re injured after signing a non-guaranteed deal but before the team waives you and you cannot play basketball due to the injury, you still get paid even if you were waived.

      I didn’t know about Ravin, that’s true, but is that even a big deal? Don’t teams do stuff like that all of the time?

      As for Love, I agree that that is notable new information and I think that’s likely why Woj wrote the article. As for tampering, it isn’t tampering if they just let Melo know that Love is the guy that they’re going to target. I do agree that Love seems to make more sense in Los Angeles. I still can’t believe Minny picked RUbio over Love.

    12. DRed

      Targetting Kevin Love is not a bad idea. Kevin Love is a terrific basketball player. If the plan to get Love is to sign an aging Carmelo Anthony for a preposterous amount of money we need to get to work on plan B.

    13. ephus

      Brian – I assumed that Chris Smith’s contract included Exhibit 9, which limits the liability for an injured player on a “make good” contract to $6,000.

      If Woj is correct, the Knicks did not include that language in last year’s contract.

    14. ephus

      By the way, Exhibit 9 is the reason why teams do not always training camp invitees to a team option for the second year. The option year makes the contract ineligible for Exhibit 9. My guess is that the Copeland contract had Exhibit 9. The possibility to save $461,000 in cash if Copeland wrecked his knee in training camp may have been the reason he is no longer a Knick.

    15. Brian Cronin

      Brian – I assumed that Chris Smith’s contract included Exhibit 9, which limits the liability for an injured player on a “make good” contract to $6,000.

      If Woj is correct, the Knicks did not include that language in last year’s contract.

      Yeah, I figured otherwise, though, because of the whole “suck up to JR Smith” angle, ya know?

    16. Owen

      Seriously, I love the sales pitch to Love. Come be the sidekick to Carmelo Anthony, 32 years old with one Cconference Final on his resume, 6 years ago…..

      For the record, I heart Love. He is absolutely the guy I wish Carmelo was. He shoots threes, he passes, he runs the floor, keeps in shape, and is an excellent teammate but who also really really wants to win above all else. Which is why he will be opting out.

      But neither Melo and Love play any defense and the idea you could pair the two of them together is ridiculous. Or the most Knicks idea ever….

    17. JK47

      I have a better idea, how about flipping Carmelo Anthony for some assets right now and signing Kevin Love and maybe another max player who is better than Carmelo Anthony headed straight into the teeth of his decline phase. I’m all for that!

    18. ephus

      Let me be clear on what I think is “dumb” and what is not.

      I do not think getting Kevin Love would be dumb. He is a great offensive player who also rebounds well. He is not a strong defensive player, but I think he is nonetheless a Max player.

      Making the potential acquisition of Kevin Love in the summer of 2015 the centerpiece of the Knicks’ plan to woo Carmelo Anthony to stay in the summer of 2014 seems dumb to me. I do not understand why Carmelo (or his advisors at CAA) would expect Love to sign in NY. And Love is not a CAA player. Jeff Schwartz of Excel Sports Management is Love’s agent.

    19. thenamestsam

      I think the new information is that the Knicks have specifically chosen Love as the guy that they’re going to sell Melo on.

      I guess that’s true, but that’s not really any huge revelation, especially given that the guy you’ve identified as your main target two years in advance of free agency is a potentially completely irrelevant point. Maybe Love gets hurt, maybe one of the other guys takes a huge step forward, maybe Love gets dealt to the kind of situation you couldn’t see him leaving.

      Anyway Love is really, really good, but you can put me down as another who’s not seeing any obvious synergies in a Love-Melo pairing. Love’s obviously a great shooter, but he likes to work out of the post as well and lineups with Love, Melo and a center are going to be awfully crowded down there. And Love+Melo is obviously not the start of a good defensive team.

      Also, and I’m just throwing this out there, but if Melo was dreaming of teaming up with Love, couldn’t the Lakers make a more convincing case that they could make that happen, since everyone has always sort of assumed that Love was LA bound eventually?

    20. Brian Cronin

      Also, and I’m just throwing this out there, but if Melo was dreaming of teaming up with Love, couldn’t the Lakers make a more convincing case that they could make that happen, since everyone has always sort of assumed that Love was LA bound eventually?

      Very fair point.

      Honestly, Melo this offseason is going to be absolutely fascinating.

      I find it extremely difficult to believe that he’d ever leave New York during his prime, if only because it ruins his narrative, but what will be even more interesting is to see how he will handle the money thing. We heard for a while that Melo would take a discount to help the Knicks out. Now we don’t even slightly hear that, right? And in fact, the money he can make from New York is instead suggested as a reason for him to stay. Therefore, it will be interesting to see if he does re-up for the max. I think that’s what he will do and…well…you know, that is a bad thing for the future of the franchise.

      The worst thing for the future of the franchise, though, is that it is owned by James Dolan. There are certain interesting ideas that the Knicks could try out but none of them are remotely possible when their owner is James Dolan.

    21. JK47

      I would much rather the Knicks win championships every year, don’t get me wrong. I hate it when this team sucks. But the one silver lining is that when the team sucks, at least I know it makes James Dolan really upset. There is a perverse schadenfreude in watching Guitar Jimmy fail so miserably.

    22. tastycakes

      Love “keeps in shape”? Dude has been injured almost every year in the league.

      I’d rather have him than Melo but chalk me up as “not seeing the synergy”.

      I want to know how bad things have to get where we start thinking about flipping Melo at the trade deadline to buy our way into this year’s lottery and get some young talent. Maybe Philly would take him? Sacramento? Orlando?

      Melo is a fine player but they won’t win a championship with him, especially not with this aging roster, and double-especially not with Melo coming into the downhill slope part of his career.

      I envy the young and up-and-coming teams in the league, at least they have hope for the future.

    23. d-mar

      Seriously, I love the sales pitch to Love. Come be the sidekick to Carmelo Anthony, 32 years old with one Cconference Final on his resume, 6 years ago…..

      For the record, I heart Love. He is absolutely the guy I wish Carmelo was. He shoots threes, he passes, he runs the floor, keeps in shape, and is an excellent teammate but who also really really wants to win above all else. Which is why he will be opting out.

      But neither Melo and Love play any defense and the idea you could pair the two of them together is ridiculous. Or the most Knicks idea ever….

      Owen, you are truly a hypocrite when it comes to all things Melo. Love has been in the NBA for five years and has not been in one playoff game. And go ahead and blame it on his teammates if you want, but if he was truly the win at all costs superstar you make him out to be, you would think he could have willed the T-Wolves to an 8 seed at least.

      We get it, you don’t like Melo, every other post of yours is “man, I wish we had _____ instead of Melo”, but please don’t tell me if you put Love on our team instead of Anthony we’d be any better off.

    24. Brian Cronin

      But they’re two separate points, aren’t they?

      The first is that the pitch to Love would be a poor one. And NBA pitches usually do involve playoff stuff, since that’s what sports pitches are about (like you know the Lakers will be using their past playoff success to bring in people). And you know they certainly aren’t citing Win Shares in their pitches to free agents, ya know?

      Then the second is what Owen personally thinks about each player. That’s just about his own personal take.

      So I don’t see the two things as contradictory positions.

    25. ephus

      Cross Lou Amundson off of the list of potential stopgap centers for the Knicks:

      Justin Verrier @JustinVerrier
      Josh Childress, Lou Amundson already in (practice) uniform at Pelicans shootaround. Thomas, Onuaku waived, per team.

    26. DRed

      Coach is apparently mulling starting Ron Ron (sure, why not?) or Pipe (huh?) tomorrow. Unless Metta is replacing Bargnani it’s much ado about nothing.

    27. Brian Cronin

      It is only a matter of time that the Pipe starts. It seems clear that that was part of the deal, because, you know, when you’re the only suitor a player has, you have to make sure to give his brother a roster spot and promise him a starting job. But it’s only because he really loves the Knicks and respects and admires Woodson.

    28. DRed

      I’m happy Earl is back, because as I have mentioned a couple times, I think Hardaway Jr. has no business playing for an NBA team at this point. And Pipe, while mercurial, should give us around average SG production, which is a big improvement over Lil’Jowles. With that being said, Pipe is coming off an injury and didn’t exactly look like he’d knocked the ash off the blunt yet against the Spurs, so I don’t understand why Coach would think starting him would be the answer to our woes.

    29. Will the Thrill

      Everything about the team and organization is cringe-worthy right now. It’s been some time since I’ve felt that.

    30. thenamestsam

      I find it extremely difficult to believe that he’d ever leave New York during his prime, if only because it ruins his narrative, but what will be even more interesting is to see how he will handle the money thing. We heard for a while that Melo would take a discount to help the Knicks out. Now we don’t even slightly hear that, right? And in fact, the money he can make from New York is instead suggested as a reason for him to stay. Therefore, it will be interesting to see if he does re-up for the max. I think that’s what he will do and…well…you know, that is a bad thing for the future of the franchise.

      I really wonder how much these guys view their decisions in terms of their “narratives” or whether that’s mostly a product of fans’ imaginations. I know I thought the same thing about Lebron and Cleveland, but ultimately he left too. And you know what? It worked out just fine for his narrative, because the media is always going to be out there trying to fit things into the narrative, and ultimately if you win, the media will fit those things into a positive narrative.

      So I 100% see what you mean, but at the same time if (and it’s a big if) Melo were to win a title in (say) LA, the media would find a new narrative to craft around that.

      Still I do expect him to stay, and I expect that ultimately it will be the money that will be the big carrot, not promising him Kevin Love’s company in a year.

    31. thenamestsam

      Oh and also JR starting on Wednesday would be complete nonsense. I have no problem with him starting eventually. I don’t love it because I think Shump is a better mixture with the starters and JR is generally better with the bench guys, but if he wants it and he earns it, then I would understand why Woodson would feel some pressure to let him do it. But the guy is just coming back from a drug suspension and was abjectly terrible in his first game back. To give him a promotion at this point…what can you do but shake your head. Only the Knicks could negotiate a deal where they offer the most money and by far the most obvious fit, and still have to make multiple silly concessions to get it done.

    32. Donnie Walsh

      We heard for a while that Melo would take a discount to help the Knicks out. Now we don’t even slightly hear that, right?

      To be fair, any talk you hear, 9-18 months before a decision needs to be made, isn’t worth a whole lot. I’m sure Anthony wants all the money he can get, but at the same time, if [the executive who succeeds Steve Mills] presents Anthony with a contract in July, 2015 that provides a highly competitive team for a below-max re-sign, I would assume Carmelo would at least entertain the offer. But, why should he waste time and bargaining power by doing that now?

    33. Brian Cronin

      To be fair, any talk you hear, 9-18 months before a decision needs to be made, isn’t worth a whole lot. I’m sure Anthony wants all the money he can get, but at the same time, if [the executive who succeeds Steve Mills] presents Anthony with a contract in July, 2015 that provides a highly competitive team for a below-max re-sign, I would assume Carmelo would at least entertain the offer. But, why should he waste time and bargaining power by doing that now?

      But Melo has already said that he’s going to opt out after this season, so any contract offer they’ll offer him will have to be now and it seems hard to believe he’ll take a pay cut on the promise of the Knicks signing good players the next season, ya know? If he didn’t opt out, I would have had faith in him taking a pay cut, but now that he’s opting out, it sure doesn’t seem likely.

    34. Donnie Walsh

      Oh, Did he say he was definitely opting out? If so then, yeah, I don’t see the point of dangling Kevin Love in front of him. If Melo signs a max extension this summer, the Knicks can’t even afford a max player in 2015, between JR, Felton, Shumpert, and Hardaway, right?

    35. Brian Cronin

      He said he wanted to try free agency after the season (while stressing that he likely will return, which I agree is the most likely scenario – just a return with him getting the max he can possibly get).

      As for 2015, I think it’s possible to still sign a max guy on top of the guys you listed (as if Shump will actually still be here by then) but yeah, a max contract to Melo this year makes it really difficult to put together a good roster on top of Melo and Love.

    36. Brian Cronin

      I really wonder how much these guys view their decisions in terms of their “narratives” or whether that’s mostly a product of fans’ imaginations. I know I thought the same thing about Lebron and Cleveland, but ultimately he left too. And you know what? It worked out just fine for his narrative, because the media is always going to be out there trying to fit things into the narrative, and ultimately if you win, the media will fit those things into a positive narrative.

      So I 100% see what you mean, but at the same time if (and it’s a big if) Melo were to win a title in (say) LA, the media would find a new narrative to craft around that.

      Still I do expect him to stay, and I expect that ultimately it will be the money that will be the big carrot, not promising him Kevin Love’s company in a year.

      I think for most players in the NBA (at least 90% of them) the narrative they care about is “making the most money possible.” Then, if multiple teams are offering the most money, the narrative is “going to the best team.” For that remaining 10%, though, they do seem to think about their image. In Lebron’s case, he was interested in going to a bigger market as part of the narrative. It’s why so many people figured he would go to New York or Chicago. But if Lebron had gone to Miami, made the Finals a few times without winning a title and then left after four years, that would have been weird. And that’s basically what Melo would be doing if he left for L.A. I don’t think he wants to be seen that way, as the guy who forced his way to New York and then left when things didn’t go exactly as planned right away. I think he’s going to be here for the rest of his career, even if that’s not what is best for the franchise.

    37. Owen

      Owen, you are truly a hypocrite when it comes to all things Melo. Love has been in the NBA for five years and has not been in one playoff game. And go ahead and blame it on his teammates if you want, but if he was truly the win at all costs superstar you make him out to be, you would think he could have willed the T-Wolves to an 8 seed at least.

      We get it, you don’t like Melo, every other post of yours is “man, I wish we had _____ instead of Melo”, but please don’t tell me if you put Love on our team instead of Anthony we’d be any better off.

      As Brian said, I was sort of trying to picture the free agent pitch to Love, in typical NBA terms. As you know, I have never been one to care about playoff records and such.

      But without question, I think Kevin Love is a much much better player than Carmelo Anthony. Who doesn’t? Is there anyone on this board that wouldn’t swap Melo for Love in an instant other than Ruru?

      I don’t know how much would change if we swapped them out, given the Chandler injury. But I do know we wouldn’t be 2-4 right now with the numbers Love has put up so far. And I suspect the difference between the two of them is probably a couple of wins just over the next 20 games.

    38. flossy

      When is Anthony Davis’s rookie deal done? That’s who we should be targeting.

      When does Anthony Davis turn 36? That’s when we will be getting him.

    39. DRed

      When does Anthony Davis turn 36? That’s when we will be getting him.

      Hey, he could always suffer career altering knee injuries before then.

    40. Owen

      And here btw is an interview with Morey, mostly about Asik and Howard and their combo….

      also discusses how they have screens above every locker with advanced statistics for the player to consult….

      Early days, he says it’s going to grow and he isn’t too worried about whether players are using it. Just focusing on winning games….

      http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/63982/truehoop-tv-daryl-morey

      But can you imagine something like that happening at MSG?

    41. flossy

      When does Anthony Davis turn 36? That’s when we will be getting him.

      Hey, he could always suffer career altering knee injuries before then.

      That would be one sure way to expedite the process!

    42. Jack Bauer

      Highly, highly, unlikely the Knicks are ever getting Love. And so it begins- the never ending rumors of which great player is supposedly coming to New York to right the ship. Almost all of which are compete BS dreaming…..

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