Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, October 25, 2014

Knicks First 2008 Summer League Game

Today the Knicks will play their first summer league game, which will be at 4pm EST. Looking over the team, I’m having a hard time figuring out who the starting 5 will be. New York does have 5 players who are on their roster: Robinson, Gallinari, Chandler, Balkman, and Collins. The obvious choice is to make them the starters.

However, this may not be the best decision. The Knicks will want to give a lot of run to their first round draft pick Danilo Gallinari. Gallo would (at least according to the heights listed by the Knicks) be the tallest man on the court, which would make him the defacto center. Unfortunately it may not be a great idea to put your European teenager at center in his first professional contest. Of the three forwards Wilson Chandler has the best bulk/height ratio (230lbs, 6-8), and Balkman has the most quickness. So you may see Renaldo at SF, Gallo at PF, and Chandler at C.

This smaller lineup does make sense, especially considering that D’Antoni likes to play quick, but what if they face a team with a rather large NBA front court player? Today that question will be answered when they face the Cavs whose summer roster features Robert “Tractor” Traylor. One way to combat a larger player is to run more, but if the pace slows down and Traylor is eating the team up on the inside, the Knicks can use summer league veteran Paul Miller or 7 footer Zhang Songtao. On the other hand if the team wanted to give Gallinari a taste of what he might face at power forward in the NBA, they just might play him at center and force him to defend Traylor.

As for the back court, the team wouldn’t have invited Nate Robinson to Las Vegas and not play him. Last year they specifically asked Robinson to be the point guard, forcing him to share the ball more. If they do that this year, Mardy Collins might not be starting. Collins is an awful shooter and playing him at the 2 would be a disaster.

If they use Collins at the point Nate would slide to the 2, but that seems counterproductive to what the team would like to do during the season. Walsh has publicly stated his like for Jamal Crawford, and it’s been reported that the team would want him to concentrate on being a shooting guard not a point guard. If the Knicks buyout or send Stephon Marbury home, they only have Duhon, Robinson, and Collins as point guards on the roster. Considering the possibility that Collins may be released to sign with the Latvian team of his choice (VEF RIGA might be a good fit) then it definitely doesn’t make sense to have Robinson waste time at the shooting guard.

Hence my choice for starting shooting guard would be the 6-4 22 year old Von Wafer, who has the most recent NBA experience (29 games for Denver and Portland last year and 46 games total over three years). According to his D-League and college stats Wafer is a strong three point shooter, and would be a better fit for D’Antoni’s offense than Collins. Other options might be Antonio Graves, a combo guard for Pitt and France’s Pau-Orthez, and Marcus Hall a long range bomber who connected on 38% of his treys at Colorado last year. Graves was supposedly a good defender in college, and seems to have done well (at least in one game) in France. Hall doesn’t have Wafer’s professional experience or and at 6-2 is a little undersized for an NBA shooting guard.

The main focus of the Knicks summer will be on Gallinari, but where he plays and who he plays with may make for some interesting sub-plots.

96 comments on “Knicks First 2008 Summer League Game

  1. Thomas B.

    We really need to see what Wafer, Gallo, and Chandler can do. We know what we have with Robinson. We know most of the rest of the roster wont be on the team come training camp. Let’s say you do cut/trade Marbury and Collins. That leaves you with Duhon and Robinson at the point. If Robinson backs up Duhon, then you need to know if Wafer can spell Crawford. So Wafer should get alot of time. With the way he can shoot the ball, he could fill the role Richardson did for the Suns in 2004, at least as a shooter. He is probably a better shooter than Q.

  2. Caleb

    I was surprised to see Nate invited back, as a 4th-year player. It’s also amazing to see Collins still in the mix. I guess the new coaching staff wants an up-close look at them both. I suspect Collins will be set free before the end of summer. Summer basketball doesn’t mean much but like other junkies I’ll be over-analyzing every shot. What am I watching for?

    – Can Gallinari play? For all the talk about where he fits in our long-term plans, he’s still a mystery man. Even Walsh hasn’t seen him in person. We’re about to see his overall talent level, where his strengths lie (is he really a SF or a PF?) and what his weaknesses are (does he have the lateral movement to defend anyone?) Not that summer league is the last word, but it’s our first real look. I’m optimistic!

    – Can Chandler resist shooting every time he touches the ball? As Ben R keeps pointing out, Chandler was terrific in the last seven games. But it’s just seven games in the seasonal equivalent of garbage time. Chandler is only 20 and full of promise, but he has to start showing some discretion. That could be tough in this environment.

    – Are any of the non-roster free agents worth anything? Wafer seems the most likely to make an impact, but Marcus Hall seems to have his fans…

    – The off-court action. What’s the trade gossip in the stands? Does Marbury do anything nuts, aside from the new tattoo”? By the time the Vegas league wraps up, I think we’ll be seeing at least a hint of what the restricted free agents are doing. That will tell whether there’s a realistic chance of moving Randolph.

  3. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    I was surprised to see Nate invited back, as a 4th-year player.

    Last year I recall reading that Robinson plays ball in the offseason anyway, so he’d rather play against better talent in the summer league. So either Nate needs to make some more NBA friends, or he’s sick of playing with Crawford (another Seattle native) year round.

  4. Greene

    Is it really the most intelligent move to just buy Marbury out before the season begins? If buyout is the way to go here then why not bring him to camp and maybe the beginning of the season to see if he can fit in. He obviously knows that he has no rope to play with here AND he is playing for a new contract. Since he is the better player than Duhon you might as well bring him. Buyout is something you can execute at any time training camp, preseason, midseason. Also based on Donnie not giving Zach away to Clips for nothing you would think that he feels that he has an asset in Marbury’s expiring deal and maybe he can get something for him when the season starts for someone needing a guard. Thoughts?

  5. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    Is it really the most intelligent move to just buy Marbury out before the season begins? If buyout is the way to go here then why not bring him to camp and maybe the beginning of the season to see if he can fit in. He obviously knows that he has no rope to play with here AND he is playing for a new contract. Since he is the better player than Duhon you might as well bring him. Buyout is something you can execute at any time training camp, preseason, midseason. Also based on Donnie not giving Zach away to Clips for nothing you would think that he feels that he has an asset in Marbury’s expiring deal and maybe he can get something for him when the season starts for someone needing a guard. Thoughts?

    We discussed the Marbury options some time ago. Would rather talk about the summer league.

  6. Dan Panorama

    I could see the temptation to bring back a selfish-but-talented player in his contract year with the idea that it would fit his interests to keep his head low and do his job to the best of his abilities, but this isn’t a good idea. Walsh needs to send a message that the old days are over and with Isiah exiled to scouting Myanmar’s top prospects, Marbury is the ultimate symbol of that era.

    But more importantly is that one good season from Marbury really gets you nothing within our larger plans. Every minute he plays is a minute that one of our young prospects does not play. Every minute he plays well is a minute that won’t matter to us in the long term, because it will cost us draft position in 2009 and we’re not going to resign him no matter what he does. And every minute he’s even in the same city as the other players there’s the chance he’ll suffer a relapse and singlehandedly destroy the season for the umpteenth time with his antics. And there’s the opportunity cost of maybe signing a promising D-leaguer like Von Wafer to try out as a 3-point specialist or to fill another role player need.

    Keeping Marbury is just is a lose-lose scenario across the board. The only scenario I could see doing it under is if we tell him to stay home until we call and hold onto his contract until the trade deadline. If through some bizarre set of circumstances a franchise player demands a trade or gets arrested drunk driving or something that we would be willing to throw out our 2010 plan for, having Marbury to suck up the money might make sense. But it would have to be someone truly spectacular (Yao, Amare, maybe Melo, that kind of thing) so even this small chance is probably not worth it.

  7. Vishal

    Longshot favorites:

    Anthony Roberson- well known player from Florida. Can shoot and score but not much of a point.

    Delonte Holland- Led Italy in scoring- an athletic 6’7 wing from DePaul

  8. Caleb

    Leading Italy in scoring sounds good. Considering most summer league guys don’t have a prayer of making the NBA, on first blush it looks like we have an interesting roster. I guess we’re about to see.

  9. Thomas B.

    “We discussed the Marbury options some time ago. Would rather talk about the summer league.”

    Let us not discuss ‘He who must not be named.’
    —-

    It is not that suprising to see a 4th year player in the Summer League. Robert “tractor” Traylor is on a summer team, and he was drafted 8 years ago. I understand Robert is trying to play his way back into the NBA, but it is not that rare to see a 3+ year vet play in the summer. Robinson is in kind of a special spot because I think the Knicks want to see if they can have him play more point. I don’t think Collins can or should do it. It seems ‘He who must not be named’ will be around for the start of the season. I’d love to see a spot made on this team for Wafer. That kind of shooting is quite valuable.

    As much as I want to see Chandler, Wafer and Gallo, I also want to see Balkman. Balkman suprised me a bit last season because I thought I would see more production from him. I’m not sure what went on, but he did not seem focused last year. I’d like to see him get off to a good summer, but I wont worry too much if he gets off to a slow start.

  10. TDM

    I read that D’Antoni is going to try a lot of different looks in the front court. He indicated that the starting front court players would be Gallo, Chandler and Balkman. Although undersized, it could be interesting.

    Also, Nate is out at least the first 2 games. I’ve seen contrasting reports as to the reason why. One indicated that the Knicks know what they have in N8, so the playing time would be better spent on a guy like Collins. I totally agree with that decision. I know Collins get a lot of negative heat on this board, but I’d rather have Collins get a shot to prove his worth than having N8 play (a guy who needs no evaluation).

  11. Italian Stalion

    The good news is that every single word I read about Gallinari is that some aspect of his his game is better than people thought.

    So far he’s faster, has better lateral movement, shoot’s better, has better court vision, etc… than everyone thought. Plus he’s a workaholic. I wish I was certain I could believe it all, but I’m not surprised because I heard this all before the draft from people that have seen him play. That’s why I was hot for him draft night!

    Chandler also supposedly looks pretty good. I’m not worried about Chandler shooting too much etc… He’s very young and has a lot to learn. He will either learn those lessons under D’Antoni or he’ll get benched and eventually be moved. This is no longer the Isiah regime where players can go years without developing or learning anything at all. All I want to see from him is that he has the same athletic ability he demonstrated late last year despite the injury.

    I think Collins is limited, but he could be a decent bench player. He started off last year injured and never really put it all together. He looked a little better the year before. I think he’s worth taking another look at with a fresh and healthy start before they throw in the towel. If he doesn’t have it, he’s gone.

    I think we already know Robinson’s game. He’s an incredible althlete, but he’s always going to be limited by his size (especially defensively). He’s too small to play SG and not a really a PG. I think his role will be more clearly defined after the Knicks decide what to do with Marbury, see how Collins is doing, and whether ANOTHER PG is brought in via trade.

    I didn’t like the Zach for a 2nd rounder trade. I’m glad they didn’t pull the trigger on that. I would take a first rounder (even lottery protected for a few years). Despite the universal hate and misunderstanding of his ability, Zach is too good a player to give away (he was in a role in NY that forced him to do some things that hurt his efficiency). Regardless, because he is very overpaid, the Knicks are never going to get equal talent back.

  12. jon abbey

    “So far he’s faster, has better lateral movement, shoot’s better, has better court vision, etc… than everyone thought. Plus he’s a workaholic. I wish I was certain I could believe it all, but I’m not surprised because I heard this all before the draft from people that have seen him play. That’s why I was hot for him draft night!”

    when I read a single word about either his rebounding or defense, I’ll be impressed.

  13. Thomas B.

    jon,

    “In 2007-2008 he also played for the first time in the elite Europe-wide Euroleague, where he averaged 14.9 points, 4.2 rebounds, 1.7 assists, and 1.5 steals in 11 games.” -Wikipedia

    Are you impressed?

  14. Italian Stallion

    “So far he’s faster, has better lateral movement, shoot’s better, has better court vision, etc… than everyone thought. Plus he’s a workaholic. I wish I was certain I could believe it all, but I’m not surprised because I heard this all before the draft from people that have seen him play. That’s why I was hot for him draft night!”
    when I read a single word about either his rebounding or defense, I’ll be impressed.

    If we read things like that it would mean we drafted an elite all star at #6. Ah we can dream! LOL

    Right now I am hoping we drafted a guy that can actually pass, make plays, hit an outside shot when his defender leaves him to double down low, perform under crunch time pressure, and make those around him a little better. The Knicks didn’t have a single player like that on the team last year. IMO, adding one would add more to the team than many people think. By year end, he may be doing a lot to help this team. If Duhon and Gallinari are both getting a lot of minutes, that means the Knicks might actually have two players on the court at the same time that know how to play basketball. Wouldn’t that be amazing? ;-)

  15. Captain Merlin

    Sorry to trot a bit off topic, but I was reading a Post article today, and somewhere in it, they quoted Jamal Crawford as having used the word “monotony” properly in a decently structured sentence. This is monumental. As with the expansion of his vocabulary so too comes better shot selection and some defense. Either that or the Post can just write a bit describing him having done that.

  16. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    If Duhon and Gallinari are both getting a lot of minutes, that means the Knicks might actually have two players on the court at the same time that know how to play basketball. Wouldn’t that be amazing? ;-)

    I guess you’re assuming that David Lee is traded or not getting a lot of minutes. :-)

  17. retropkid

    What we might hope to learn in Summer League:

    1. Gallinari can bang as well as he can shoot, and avoids foul trouble when he does…
    2. Balkman has worked on a mid-range jumper and free throws and is ready for major minutes.
    3. D’Antoni has a plan to improve the D as much as the O…it might include more zone if he plays small.
    4. Chandler’s upside turns out to be big — yes, he learns to pass and play team D, and improves on boards and jay too.

    I can’t wait to read a quote from Zeke saying it’s his guys that form the basis for the uptempo, upswing Knicks….somehow he’ll take some credit for Gallinari if he proves to be a player.

    At this juncture, there is no reason not to be optimistic that we have the right leadership taking this team in the right direction. I wish Duhon was going to be out there getting some time with these guys now.

  18. Caleb

    “In 2007-2008 he also played for the first time in the elite Europe-wide Euroleague, where he averaged 14.9 points, 4.2 rebounds, 1.7 assists, and 1.5 steals in 11 games.” -Wikipedia

    Hollinger has written a lot about how European stats translate to the NBA.
    • Scoring rate decreases 25 percent
    • Rebound rate increases by 18 percent (there are more missed shots in NBA play)
    • Assist rate increases by 31 percent (Euro scorers are tightwads with assists)
    • Shooting percentage drops by 12 percent
    • Overall, PER drops by 30 percent.

  19. T-Mart

    “(Euro scorers are tightwads with assists)”

    Hahahahaha, pardon my easily amused nature, but this gave me a great picture of some euro-trash scorer guy with a ridiculous outfit on, maybe a tank-top and a fo-hawk, with an accent like Fronk from Father of the Bride channeling Leslie Neilson from naked gun as an umpire arbitrarily denying assists with reckless abondon.

  20. Italian Stallion
    If Duhon and Gallinari are both getting a lot of minutes, that means the Knicks might actually have two players on the court at the same time that know how to play basketball. Wouldn’t that be amazing? ;-)

    I guess you’re assuming that David Lee is traded or not getting a lot of minutes. :-)

    Keeping Lee is looking more likely every day. Hopefully, they can move a bad contract without giving him up.

    I just read that D’Antoni is considering using Lee at center a bit this year. If that’s the case, I can envision a line up of Lee at C, Gallinari at PF, Chandler at SF, Crawford at SG, and Duhon at PG. That line up would put a big burden on Lee to get rebounds and start the fast break, but it would a lot of fun to watch on the offensive end.

  21. italian stallion
    “In 2007-2008 he also played for the first time in the elite Europe-wide Euroleague, where he averaged 14.9 points, 4.2 rebounds, 1.7 assists, and 1.5 steals in 11 games.” -Wikipedia

    Hollinger has written a lot about how European stats translate to the NBA.• Scoring rate decreases 25 percent• Rebound rate increases by 18 percent (there are more missed shots in NBA play)• Assist rate increases by 31 percent (Euro scorers are tightwads with assists)• Shooting percentage drops by 12 percent• Overall, PER drops by 30 percent.

    I bet that formula doesn’t work nearly as well with 19 year olds that are improving by leaps and bounds and given to a competent coach to develop as it does with veterans. ;-)

  22. Caleb

    Sure, Hollinger is just talking about the direct translation — the numbers are very good for a 19-year-old. 11.2 points, 5.0 rebounds, 2.3 assists in the NBA version. You’d figure them to go up quickly, for any 19-year-old.

    It does seem very unlikely that Gallinari will ever be a big rebounder — that’s bad for apower forward. And is he quick enough to guard 3s? Even in the best-case scenario, he looks like a bit of a tweener. But that’s ok – so is Carmelo Anthony.

    We have lots of duplication in the frontcourt, but that’s no reason to rush into bad trades. If the players are valuable, we’ll have opportunities to tweak the roster.

  23. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    I bet that formula doesn’t work nearly as well with 19 year olds that are improving by leaps and bounds and given to a competent coach to develop as it does with veterans. ;-)

    I believe his predictions are only for the first year.

  24. Caleb

    It’s not 100% clear from the article, but I think he’s saying that it’s apples to apples — the formula converts Gallinari’s 2007-2008 Euroleague numbers to theoretical 2007-2008 NBA numbers. (in the same way you could see how Marbury would have fared, playing for Benetton). You’d then assume he’d be better the following year (Year 1). But — now that you mention it — he doesn’t really spell it out.

  25. Frank

    Sorry to trot a bit off topic, but I was reading a Post article today, and somewhere in it, they quoted Jamal Crawford as having used the word “monotony” properly in a decently structured sentence. This is monumental. As with the expansion of his vocabulary so too comes better shot selection and some defense. Either that or the Post can just write a bit describing him having done that.

    A bit of an unfair and possibly racist comment I think, but hopefully his shot selection does improve this year under D’Antoni. Don’t want to make an issue out of this but it does seem sometimes people make, shall we say, questionably racist comments on this board that just get swept under the rug. Jamal has always been very well spoken so I’m not sure why it would be a big surprise that he can use the word “monotony” in a sentence.

  26. Captain Merlin

    My comment was not intended to be racist, as I would have said exactly the same thing had any nba guard managed to do the same. It was not a reflection of my surprise at a black fellow showing a decent vocabulary, but rather a reflection of my surprise at any NBA player using a decent vocabulary.
    Also, the comment was meant to be a farcical, snarky inference as to just how much the Knicks are turning around, citing that player interview and comparing it to memories of player interviews from years past during the Isiah era. (See Steph).
    This comment could have just as easily been taken that way or as an attack on any number of different demographics, however you chose to misinterpret it as an attack on race, rather than any of these others.

    Hopefully Jamal can continue speaking well and displaying a functional vocabulary until this skill provides him with shot selection and a nose for defense.

  27. jon abbey

    the Post piece:

    “”It’s weird because everybody’s looking at 2010 and there’s a reason, there’s great players out there,” Crawford said. “But we still need good players now.”

    Still, Crawford added change might be good “to break up the monotony a little bit.””

    monotony means “tedious sameness or repetitiousness”, I think it’s safe to say that’s not something we’ve seen much of in Knicks-land.

  28. Captain Merlin

    Sorta seems to me like all of the chaos and shit has turned into a persistent, monotonous fog. Like background music in a waiting room–no matter how happening it may be it’s still just a part of the constant background.

  29. Caleb

    There’s monotony in misery. I vote “yea” on the grammar. Maybe he can work with JJ Redick and Etan Thomas in a poet’s version of the triangle offense — Paul Shirley coming off the bench,.

  30. Dan Panorama

    I see Jamal Crawford’s been listening to a lot of Vampire Weekend over the offseason.

  31. George from Scottsdale

    And now back to basketball!! Assuming The Don doesn’t make any more moves-The K’s start-Duhon,Chandler,Gall,Zach and Lee,with the second team,Craw,N8,Balk and Eddy and both teams run until they drop!!

  32. Thomas B.

    How did JC use Monotony incorrectly? Well he used the noun-“monotony”- where he should have used an adjective-“monotonous.” The adjective would have been proper since he was describing the Knick offense. Nouns should not be used to describe the characteristics of a person place or thing (noun).

    Furthermore, monotony in its literal sense speaks to “sameness of tone or pitch.” I doubt JC was speaking about the musical aspects of the Knick offense. However, that use could be forgiven because the definition of the word was expanded in the late 18th century to mean “lacking in variety, uninteresting.” I would say that did describe the offense under Isaiah Thomas.

  33. Dan Panorama

    I can’t imagine Danilo is starting on the strength of a good workout or two. All the scouting reports on him a month ago put him squarely in prospect territory and I doubt much has changed. It’s good to hear people so high on him now but I wouldn’t put expectations too high on either his role or playing time this season.

  34. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    How did JC use Monotony incorrectly? Well he used the noun-”monotony”- where he should have used an adjective-”monotonous.” The adjective would have been proper since he was describing the Knick offense. Nouns should not be used to describe the characteristics of a person place or thing (noun).

    And people make fun of advanced statistics being complicated. Can someone explain to me in English what’s wrong with this sentence:

    Still, Crawford added change might be good “to break up the monotony a little bit.”

    I’m looking at this example given on dictionary.com’s web page:

    “He had never grown accustomed to the monotony of his work.”

    And monotony seems to be used the same way in both. Am I missing something here?

  35. jon abbey

    no, it’s just an extremely odd word selection IMO. playing in Milwaukee, I could maybe (maybe) see being monotonous, but certainly not the Knicks of the last few years. if anything’s monotonous, it’s Jamal missing shots at the end of EVERY DAMN QUARTER. maybe he could consider “breaking that up a little bit”?

  36. TDM

    “Chandler LOVES to shoot the basketball.”

    And . . .

    Glad to see that the stream of consciousness is dictating the flow of the board.

    Along those lines, did anyone see that Frank Williams is playing for the Hornet’s summer league team?

  37. Captain Merlin

    Gallinari has looked rather…less than excellent so far. Roberson, from Florida a few years back, has looked pretty decent, especially from distance.

  38. Thomas B.
    How did JC use Monotony incorrectly? Well he used the noun-”monotony”- where he should have used an adjective-”monotonous.” The adjective would have been proper since he was describing the Knick offense. Nouns should not be used to describe the characteristics of a person place or thing (noun).

    And people make fun of advanced statistics being complicated. Can someone explain to me in English what’s wrong with this sentence:
    Still, Crawford added change might be good “to break up the monotony a little bit.”
    I’m looking at this example given on dictionary.com’s web page:
    “He had never grown accustomed to the monotony of his work.”
    And monotony seems to be used the same way in both. Am I missing something here?

    In the dictionary.com example monotony describes the work, “the monotony of the work” in this case, monotony is not the noun. JC said that it breaks up the monotony. he failed to add “of the offense.” Therefore, what is broken is the monotony, as you cannot break an adjetive, monotony in that sentence becomes a noun, which is improper. Had Crawford used the proper form, monotonous, he would have been forced to use that word to describe the ofense. Example: “new players break up the monotonous offense.” He could have used the dictionary.com exmaple and still been correct had he said “…the monotony of the offense.” But he failed to either of those things, as such his use of the word is wrong. But don’t take my word, I can baerly speel.

  39. jon abbey

    “Glad to see that the stream of consciousness is dictating the flow of the board. ”

    it’s a game thread, the Knicks are on now.

  40. Thomas B.

    so (unless I heard wrong), both Q and Mardy Collins have lost 10-15 pounds. what about Curry and Randolph?

    They picked up the slack.

  41. TDM

    “it’s a game thread, the Knicks are on now.”

    Yeah, I realized that after I posted. I got too caught up in the discussion over usage of the term ‘monotony.’ Have to say I’m a bit surprised to see the Tractor on the Cavs sl team.

  42. Z

    I could watch this summer league team lose sixty games much easier than I could watch the real roster lose three.

    Last year summer league was the highlight of the season. Enjoy it now while it lasts!

    (And Mardy actually looks like he practiced since we last tuned in. Hopefully someone is watching. He could be worth an unprotected 1st rounder!)

  43. Italian Stallion

    Gallinari looked very mediocre in the first half, but he had a much better second half. I like what I see so far.

    Balkman looks pretty good, as does Mardy Collins.

    Chandler is still taking too many bad shots, but that’s OK. He’ll learn. He looks like he still has all his athletic ability which is the key.

  44. Matthew

    I’m not crazy about Gallinari’s ball handling. He has a high dribble. I don’t see that working against NBA competition.

  45. dred

    I think they said Traylor was 31. When you’re that old and playing summer league ball, it’s time to look for another line of work.

  46. bernardking

    I know its only summer league, but Roberson looks like he can play in the NBA. good handle and can shoot. Id like to see more.

  47. Z

    Q is a much better sideline reporter than he is a shooting guard. Put a bad Craig Sager jacket on him and I see great thing in his (near) future…

  48. foliveri

    I’m ambivalent about the summer league this year.
    Last year, Robinson and Balkman tore it up. Balkman then went missing for virtually the entire season and Robinson seemed much less in command of himself.

    One key to this season, in my view, will be foul shooting. Knicks seemed to lose a lot of games last year on the line.
    …If you choose to ignore the complete and utter lack of defense…

    I also am nonplussed by the complete blackout on Curry. Why isn’t his fat butt out there hustling in the summer league?

  49. Captain Merlin

    After that ehh-rated first half, gallinari looked terrific in the second half. Mardy Collins did not look excessively horrible, so that’s something to be celebrated. Wasn’t that attempted/muffed dunk by Mardy near the end of regulation just the absolute highlight of it all? I see Darryl Dawkins take two.

  50. cwod

    Mardy actually hit his free throws, which is probably a good sign, if he sticks on the roster.

  51. AlbanyKnick

    The Knicks continue their Summer League dominance. People may not enjoy the Summer League style of play, but it is the only time of the year when the Knicks are competitive!

  52. cwod

    FWIW, I’m pretty sure Crawford used “monotony” correctly, or at least in a way that is generally acceptable in the American vernacular.

    Chandler looks light years ahead of Balkman.

  53. Thomas B.

    FWIW, I’m pretty sure Crawford used “monotony” correctly, or at least in a way that is generally acceptable in the American vernacular.
    Chandler looks light years ahead of Balkman.

    Yeah well “FWIW”, this is the same American vernacular that uses the word moot incorrectly (it means worthy of debate, not beyond debate), can’t pronounce forte correctly (should be fort, not for-tay), and always uses the word careen when they should say career.

  54. ess-dog

    Wow, you guys are hard-core, watching the summer league…
    I refuse to believe that Mardy did anything worthwhile until I see it with my own eyes, thank you. Did Nate get some burn? Did coach try to take away his joy? I think Balkman (though I like his game) could be the throw in for Trade Zach Randolph ’08. Is Lee our future center? I guess that means no more bear hugs from Eddy.
    p.s. – The monotony conversation is getting monotonous(grammar?)

  55. cwod
    FWIW, I’m pretty sure Crawford used “monotony” correctly, or at least in a way that is generally acceptable in the American vernacular.
    Chandler looks light years ahead of Balkman.

    Yeah well “FWIW”, this is the same American vernacular that uses the word moot incorrectly (it means worthy of debate, not beyond debate), can’t pronounce forte correctly (should be fort, not for-tay), and always uses the word careen when they should say career.

    Hey, it’s the death of language. Welcome to America. I’m not going to get on Crawford’s case, since the generally educated people here can’t even agree. And that’s factorial.

  56. Captain Merlin

    Wednesday against the Spurs. I think Nate is supposed to be due to play by then, so we could be looking at a possibly historic occasion–the first step toward a potential 2nd consecutive mvp run. He could quite possibly raise his stature to a level unparalleled by any other summer leaguer. He and Bellinelli sit in a league of their own. Marvelous.

  57. Ess-dog

    “He could quite possibly raise his stature to a level unparalleled by any other summer leaguer. He and Bellinelli sit in a league of their own. Marvelous.”

    “A league of Their Own”? That movie with Rosie O’Donnell and Madonna? Those broads would give these Knicks a run for their money… Ho!

    That reminds me of Eddy Curry’s first job. He worked in a pet store and people kept asking how big he’d get. Hey-O!

    Hey, but don’t forget about Isaiah. When he was a kid, he could tell that his parents hated him. His bath toys were a toaster and a radio.

    Thank you! You’ve been great!

  58. Ray

    The first half of the game was pretty boring. I found myself thinking “Couldnt we have found some better guys to run in our summerleague than this one?”. Other than that there were some things i noticed.

    Wilson Chandler was a beast. Very quick, nice jumper, nice crossover. Uses his body well combined with quickness to get to the hole. On top of that he had a couple of blocks and steals. When given the chance to play he will have a pretty good impact. I see he just needs to play more under control when he plays D. He is just as quick off his feet as Balkman so hes going to block some shots for us too.

    Danillo looked like he was nervous and trying to do everything right in the first half. Then he caught that dunk!! That showed some pretty good athleticism. Then he started hitting the J. The boy can shoot. Hes not going to be able to bang by the looks of it. Hickson abused everyone down low. Hes is going to create mismatches and is smart enough to dish to the open man. We dont have anyone like him on our team so i believe he is a great addition to this Knicks project and Danillo is just going to get better and better. I cant wait to see him ball real time.

    Balkman looks the same. Didnt take one jumper. Dont expect much improvement out of him this year. He should have come to Summer League ready to display a honed jump shot instead we have the same Balkman who feeds on opportunities instead of creativity. Ro , work on your game man!!

    Mardy needs to be cut. If hes going to take minutes from Nate who has the skills to change the mood of a game then we dont need Mardy. Nate can run the point. He just has to do it off the bench. He will get plenty of minutes from there.

    Lastly, JJ Hickson is a beast!!

  59. Gorky

    May I recommend you all search for ‘Chris Duhon’ on Google images, if you haven’t already?

  60. Captain Merlin

    Gorky, at least these pictures prove we’re getting a player of strong moral fiber, and not just some possible running mate for Zbo when he hits the town.

  61. jrock

    i find it amusing that the majority of people on this board likely party it up on the weekends and then find it improper for duhon doing the same – if you had a million dollars and all the female attention you could want, you’d be doing the same thing

  62. cavjam
    FWIW, I’m pretty sure Crawford used “monotony” correctly, or at least in a way that is generally acceptable in the American vernacular.
    Chandler looks light years ahead of Balkman.

    Yeah well “FWIW”, this is the same American vernacular that uses the word moot incorrectly (it means worthy of debate, not beyond debate), can’t pronounce forte correctly (should be fort, not for-tay), and always uses the word careen when they should say career.

    Actually, moot also means not applicable to the present reality – IOW, debating the point is meaningless (IstillOW, not worthy of debate, which has the same effect as being beyond debate), or, amazingly enough, pointless – something I picked up in moot court before I forwent (yes, that is a word) my careen in law to play the pianoforte (that’s FORtay) in the Bach Festival Orchestra (oh man, the groupies!) which (pianoforte), amazingly enough, means “soft loud.” (Oops, I misused careen.) (Do I get marked down for being too parenthetical?)

    BTW, Craw used monotony correctly; the prepositional phrase was elided, a common practice in English.

    Graves and Roberson are the two players I’d be interested in keeping an eye on. Know nothing re Wafer. Collins’ stats look good (5Asts, 1TO, that’s not Knick-like), but it’s just one game and just Summer League.

  63. Renaldo Balkman's Agent

    If I had all the female attention I could want I wouldn’t be a male stripper. But that’s just me.

    Pre-season prediction:

    Renaldo Balkman is going to shoot 0-134 from the free throw line this season.

  64. Caleb

    Didn’t NBA.com post the games last year, available for download? This year I only see the streaming versions. Since I missed the game, I was wondering…

    Balkman makes his living on defense, so he can have a mediocre line without having a bad game. Did he?

    Collins actually put up some nice numbers. What happened there?

    The Knicks started 3 NBA players (if you include Collins) and a #6 pick, against a #19 pick and 4 guys looking for a tryout. Yet we barely won.

    Does anyone think Roberson’s presence is a sign of influence for David Lee? College teammates and all…

  65. Z-man

    Gallo was very impressive. In the 2nd half he showed a variety of skills on the offensive end: 3 pointers, crossover step-back jumper, drive to left draw contact make FT’s, power follow dunk, take defender off dribble from half-court. Lots of work to do on defensive end, but that was true for every young rookie. He looked hurt at end of his stint and was doing some back stretches with the trainer and did not return to game. Hopefully nothing that will keep him out on Wednesday.

    Traylor should not have been allowed to compete in this league. He is terribly out of shape and is just gonna hurt somebody.

    Mardy is in excellent shape and looked determined to impress on offense. I think if his athleticism has improved (remember he played most of last year on a bad knee he has value as a defensive replacement against bigger scoring point guards. I wouldn’t cut him just yet.

    Chandler has definitely worked hard on his game (both O and D) over the break. I honestly feel he makes Renaldo expendable…the guy appears to have made zero improvement since last year.

    Roberson can shoot, but not needed on our roster (Nate is better than him at everything), Mardy probably has more value to us because of his size.

    Q,Steph and Craw had interviews and Q interviewed Gallo at end of game. Q talked about his losing lots of weight and needing to lose 5 more lbs to get to his playinng wt in Phx. At this point I’m not buying.

  66. Thomas B.

    FWIW, I’m pretty sure Crawford used “monotony” correctly, or at least in a way that is generally acceptable in the American vernacular.Chandler looks light years ahead of Balkman.

    Yeah well “FWIW”, this is the same American vernacular that uses the word moot incorrectly (it means worthy of debate, not beyond debate), can’t pronounce forte correctly (should be fort, not for-tay), and always uses the word careen when they should say career.

    Actually, moot also means not applicable to the present reality – IOW, debating the point is meaningless (IstillOW, not worthy of debate, which has the same effect as being beyond debate), or, amazingly enough, pointless – something I picked up in moot court before I forwent (yes, that is a word) my careen in law to play the pianoforte (that’s FORtay) in the Bach Festival Orchestra (oh man, the groupies!) which (pianoforte), amazingly enough, means “soft loud.” (Oops, I misused careen.) (Do I get marked down for being too parenthetical?)
    BTW, Craw used monotony correctly; the prepositional phrase was elided, a common practice in English.
    Graves and Roberson are the two players I’d be interested in keeping an eye on. Know nothing re Wafer. Collins’ stats look good (5Asts, 1TO, that’s not Knick-like), but it’s just one game and just Summer League.

    Step 1: buy this book.
    Step 2: read this book.

  67. jon abbey

    “Collins actually put up some nice numbers. What happened there? ”

    he lost weight in the offseason and he looked good on offense, one three he hit in transition was especially impressive.

  68. Rick

    With all due respect to this wonderful basketball blog, the North American sense of the word “moot” absolutely does not mean “worthy of debate”.

    The English language is far far far more flexible than the highly specious “X means Y but – haha – most people think it means Z” argument.

    In terms of a source, why not turn to The Oxford English Dictionary instead of to a shiny book with squiggles on it? Yes, I know: the OED has 20 volumes, it’s true; but if you plan to be didactic about people’s use of the language I would hope that you’d turn to the venerable OED rather than to the works of “Abbie F. Salny”. Or should William Shakespeare have been spoken down to for his terrible use of the English language?

    Anyway, what the OED will show you is that someone in this thread is right and someone in this thread is very wrong.

    And no, I’m not equating Jamal Crawford to William Shakespeare. Jamal would eat William’s lunch. I’d think that William would have had the up-and-under move and the tear drop in his arsenal though. He was crafty.

    Oh, and PS – “Moot” according to the OED (with those tricky second senses)

    “2. N. Amer. (orig. Law). Of a case, issue, etc.: having no practical significance or relevance; abstract, academic.
    ***Now the usual sense in North America.***

    1807 Rep. U.S. Circuit Court: District Virginia (Lexis) 25 126 If a statute of the United States were to adopt a common law phrase, in the creation of an offence, no common law consequences would follow, because we have no common law. But this is a moot point. 1831 Rep. Supreme Court U.S. (Lexis) 30 41 Whether it is the emanation from the People or the States, is a moot question, having no bearing on the supremacy of that supreme law which from a proper source has rightfully been imposed on us by Sovereign Power. 1899 Atlantic Reporter 42 517/2 Because the plaintiff boarded the cars for the purpose of making a test case, this is a moot case, which the court will not entertain. 1946 Univ. Pennsylvania Law Rev. Jan. 126 A lawsuit which is, or has become, moot is neither a case nor a controversy in the constitutional sense and no federal court has the power to decide it. 1973 N.Y. Law Jrnl. 31 Aug. 18/4 Motion for an order dismissing this indictment for lack of prosecution is dismissed as moot. 2000 Time 20 Nov. 71/3 Media critics have long argued that networks should not call races until all polls have closed to avoid affecting turnout. It’s a moot argument: information will out.”

    FWIW, I’m pretty sure Crawford used “monotony” correctly, or at least in a way that is generally acceptable in the American vernacular.Chandler looks light years ahead of Balkman.

    Yeah well “FWIW”, this is the same American vernacular that uses the word moot incorrectly (it means worthy of debate, not beyond debate), can’t pronounce forte correctly (should be fort, not for-tay), and always uses the word careen when they should say career.

    Actually, moot also means not applicable to the present reality – IOW, debating the point is meaningless (IstillOW, not worthy of debate, which has the same effect as being beyond debate), or, amazingly enough, pointless – something I picked up in moot court before I forwent (yes, that is a word) my careen in law to play the pianoforte (that’s FORtay) in the Bach Festival Orchestra (oh man, the groupies!) which (pianoforte), amazingly enough, means “soft loud.” (Oops, I misused careen.) (Do I get marked down for being too parenthetical?)
    BTW, Craw used monotony correctly; the prepositional phrase was elided, a common practice in English.
    Graves and Roberson are the two players I’d be interested in keeping an eye on. Know nothing re Wafer. Collins’ stats look good (5Asts, 1TO, that’s not Knick-like), but it’s just one game and just Summer League.

    Step 1: buy this book.
    Step 2: read this book.

  69. Thomas B.

    All that means is that the dictionary was amended to recognize that a growing number of people were getting it wrong. Moot in its original usage means: –adjective 1. open to discussion or debate; debatable.

    No disrespect to the OED, I’m sure it too recognizes the common use of the word moot, but the OED clearly has not researched the etymology of the word moot. I agree that the English language is a living which is capable of change. Take for example the word fagot or the British fagott, often used as a slur against homosexuals, the word originaly-and still does-mean “a tightly bound bundle of sticks.” Yes, words can come to have a dual meanings. However, with respect to the word moot, it is clear that the common usage of the word has become the opposite of its original usage and meaning.

    Now I dont know Ms. Abbie F. Salny personally. But I do know that her book could not use the word Mensa in its title unless a few scholars and etymologist looked over her work. Given that i have found several dictionarys that do recognize that the original meaning of the word moot is consistent with what I have offered, and with what Ms. Salny has researched. Maybe, just maybe the OED got it wrong, or has omitted the etymology of the word moot.

    Now with respect to JC vs. WS. I think JC has the clear advantage. WS’s game will be much to predictable as he ould not abandon iambic pentameter during the 1 on 1.

    “Look out Jamal, I’m driving to the hole.
    Oh drat, it seems I’ve missed the shot again.
    On my knees this game will take its toll.
    I’m down too far to think that I shall win.”

    Besides William can’t go to his left hand.

  70. cwod

    No disrespect to the OED, I’m sure it too recognizes the common use of the word moot, but the OED clearly has not researched the etymology of the word moot.

    You’re kidding, right? Have you ever read an OED entry?

    This thread is officially the low point of this blog.

    That’s probably true.

  71. Thomas B.

    Ok…enough.

    We moved on from English lessons to poetry. Did you not notice the first stanza of Shakespeare’s “Ode to ballin’ with JC?”

  72. Captain Merlin

    As the poster who spawned this whole discussion of proper grammar and word usage with my comments on Jamal’s quote, it is with great pride that I know I will able to consult this thread in the archive for years to come…like my child’s grown up into some worthless, trivial bastard.

  73. Thomas B.

    As the poster who spawned this whole discussion of proper grammar and word usage with my comments on Jamal’s quote, it is with great pride that I know I will able to consult this thread in the archive for years to come…like my child’s grown up into some worthless, trivial bastard.

    bastard
    1223, “illegitimate child,” from O.Fr., “child of a nobleman by a woman other than his wife,” probably from fils de bast “packsaddle son,” meaning a child conceived on an improvised bed (saddles often doubled as beds while traveling), with pejorative ending -art. Alternate possibly is that the word is from P.Gmc. *banstiz “barn,” equally suggestive of low origin. Not always regarded as a stigma.

    Captain,

    As you can see a child cannot grow into a bastard. Bastard are born that way. :-) So I think you used it incorrectly.

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