Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, September 3, 2014

118 comments on “Knicks at Sixers Open Thread

  1. David Crockett

    An early appearance by Mardy Collins/Jared Jeffries, and two–make that three quck steals… for Philly.

  2. Ess-dog

    Dear God,
    Let it prove true that Eddy Curry is tonight being showcased for our ungodly Knicks to not suck as much…
    Amen.

  3. jon abbey

    “I can’t remember the last time I saw a team get to 50 so fast…”

    let me once again recommend Western Conference hoops, Utah had 77 last night at halftime against GS. Dallas/NO and Phoenix/LA coming up very soon, pretty glad I haven’t seen a second of this disaster.

  4. Ess-dog

    “Utah had 77 last night at halftime against GS”

    Yeah, but I bet GS had at least 60. This is an atrocity. How long do we fans have to put up with this?

  5. Ess-dog

    “I wonder which Knick will try to get tossed from this game first?”

    Probably Zeke. He’s the only one that cares that much at this point. Nate might sock somebody.

  6. David Crockett

    I wish there was a way we could know what rock-bottom is–just so we could be prepared emotionally. I honestly didn’t think we’d have another game like this.

  7. David Crockett

    Just turned on Dallas at New Orleans to remind myself of what real basketball teams look like.

  8. Funky

    I was going to say that there’s hope as long as Isiah continues his race to unemployment.

    But Dolan’s incompetence is pretty hilarious. First he hires a guy who has failed in every managerial/coaching position he has ever held. Then, when it’s pretty clear that this guy has failed yet again, he goes ahead and gives him even more responsibility by making him coach.

    It seems pretty unlikely that Dolan will hire anyone capable of fixing this mess.

  9. KenB

    We are witnessing history in the making, albeit not from anything positive. We get to enjoy one of the worst teams in the league.

  10. Z

    Typical of the Knicks to follow up a decent win with the worst half of basketball Johnny Hoops has ever seen…

  11. John

    I’m a sixers fan and won’t rub it in, but can i just say that the sixers poor work on the defensive glass game in and game out irritates me…game in and game out the FG% changes, but the lousy defensive rebounding stays the same…

  12. cwod

    simmons can be funny at times, but i’m not sure anything he says should be taken seriously as analysis.

  13. John

    Simmons peaked with his ‘bad gm summit’ a few years ago…he’s the worst of all boston homers and that espn employs him and gives him any sort of ‘sports’ credibility is as sad as SAS having a radio show

  14. John

    Seriously though folks, isn’t this the kind of game that gets coaches of normal,vunderperforming, franchises fired? The sixers are off being waxed by the t’wolves and the knicks acually had a ‘good win’ last night…seriously…is jim dolan on some sort of medication.

  15. Mulligan

    When at look at box scores like this one, I just try to remember that Denver game (was it the 2nd game of the season?) where everything seemed to be clicking. Good times..

  16. Z

    Randolph Morris is wondering just how much the Knicks need to be losing by in order to get his name called…

  17. Brian Cronin

    It really is amazing. The Knicks just don’t work like normal teams. You’re all right, things like this logically would lead to certain results under almost any other circumstances – here, we get, well, no responses.

    Bizarre.

  18. jon abbey

    my theory is that Dolan knows that if he fired Isiah that he’d come under a lot more fire if things didn’t turn around after that, Isiah is his buffer and that’s why he’s still here.

  19. John

    why is that guy even on our team?

    I say that about many many sixers

    including willie green (this game not withstanding)…i really hope he’s being ‘showcased’ I’d much rather have that rumored trade where the sixers end up with darko lowry and najera :)

  20. John

    my theory is that Dolan knows that if he fired Isiah that he’d come under a lot more fire if things didn’t turn around after that, Isiah is his buffer and that’s why he’s still here.

    but by firing isiah, vehemently, with perjudice, from the ENTIRE organization and hiring a new GM and a new coach wouldn’t that buy some time from the fans as they tried to dig out from under the mountain of idioti moves by isiah? I mean if isiah was fired, no knick fans would expect it to take less than 2-3 years to get back to even mediocre do you?

  21. Mulligan

    Come under a lot more fire? Are you kidding me? I think we’d all jump for joy that the dude was responding to our pain. Seriously, how twisted does Dolan have to be to enjoy this? If he didn’t like fucking with us, surely he would have done something by now, right? What a jerk.

    On a side note, I just found myself trying to figure out how the Pistons ended up with the 2nd pick in the 2003 draft, for the life of me I couldn’t remember. After some time on Wikipedia: It was from a 1997 Otis Thorpe trade. Crazy, huh? You all realize, of course, that this is precisely what’s going to happen with the draft pick we owe the Jazz in 2010.

  22. jon abbey

    yes, people would be thrilled when he was fired, but once that wore off and the next set of bozos Dolan picked didn’t do any better, Dolan would take more direct flak.

    dunno, just a theory, and maybe not a good one, but does anyone else have a better reason that the Smiling Weasel is still running this train wreck?

  23. jon abbey

    “What’s the record for worst loss (point deficit) in the shot clock era for the knicks?”

    if this one ends at less than 45, it’s not even the worst loss of this year.

  24. daaarn

    wtf was that? i thought we had moved past these 30pt+ shellackings (not to say we were immune to 10 or 20pt ones). i mean, i dont have any expectations for this season, but that still doesn’t mean i want them to lose this bad. i mean, that’s just embarrassing.

  25. cwod

    i think jon’s dolan theory is decent. the more gms/coaches he goes through, the more obvious it becomes that he’s a moron. he’d rather not face that fact.

  26. Roshi

    You have to think that loses like this wear on our few likeable players. There’s only so much Lee and Balkman can take being blown out before they just stop caring.

  27. jon abbey

    why would you sense bottom? what’s going to change going forward to make things better? that’s just wishful thinking IMO, at least until something concrete actually changes.

  28. jon abbey

    this has been an amazing hoops night, by the way.

    Marcus Williams takes over for Kidd and beats Chicago in OT, scoring 10 straight for NJ in the extra period.

    Chris Paul totally abuses Kidd in the 3rd quarter, scoring 19 points on 7 for 7 and blowing the game open.

    Detroit goes way down to Milwaukee and almost comes all the way back when Milwaukee turns it over at the end by calling a TO when they didn’t have one, but Sheed misses a 3 to tie.

    LA/Phoenix has felt like a playoff game, and we still have the second half of Boston/GS to come.

    notice which team wasn’t mentioned at all there? :)

  29. Hudson River

    “We couldn’t make a pass from A to B,” Knicks coach Isiah Thomas said. “When we take care of the basketball, we’re a pretty competitive team. But when you have 25 turnovers and they score 30 points off of your turnovers, that’s the game.”

    Thats false, we still would have lost by 10 even if they had re-checked the ball every time we committed a turnover. And that game was worse than 40 points, that was worse than the Boston Massacre.

  30. Spider Cider

    Clyde had the greatest line early in the game.

    “Wilie Green has underachieved due to injuries and just…uhhhh…ineptitude.”

  31. Ray

    Typical Knicks Basketball. Also , some of the trade rumors out there are just plain stupid. Simmons must be sitting around just making stuff up. Hes not funny at all. I guess we will see what happens at the deadline. Im just hoping that nothing stupid happens. It can get worse than this.

  32. Frank

    From Frank Isola today:

    “A Nuggets source indicated Wednesday night that the Knicks were considering a deal for Brazilian forward Nene, who recently began light workouts one month after surgery to remove a malignant tumor from his right testicle. Denver was also trying to make a deal for Sacramento’s Ron Artest. Nene was originally drafted by the Knicks before being traded to Denver along with Marcus Camby for Antonio McDyess.

    Also, a league source told The News that the Bucks’ owner, Milwaukee Sen.Herb Kohl, yesterday rejected a trade that would have sent Randolph and either Fred Jones or Jared Jeffries to Milwaukee for a package including Bobby Simmons, Charlie Bell and Dan Gadzuric, who all have long-term contracts. ”

    PLEASE PLEASE tell me this is not true. Simmons, Bell, and Gadzuric all have contracts at least as long as Randolph, and Nene has been a horrible disappointment from day one in the league, and has FIVE years left on his contract according to the Trade Machine.

    I’d rather just do nothing then take on longer contracts of low-mid level players!

    As to why Milwaukee would turn down a trade like that, I have no idea. We have to at least get Villaneuva, who at least has some limited upside.

  33. John

    Being a Knick fan is painful….just like being a Cablevision subscriber….I can’t wait for Fios to come my way.

    I have to admit, watching the Knicks lose by 40 is quite entertaining (I am a Knick fan)….I mean, it is better than reality TV….because…this truly is REALITY. When you flip to the Lakers/Suns game and you watch real B-Ball then go to the Knick game….it’s hilarious!

    I really feel bad for the Knicks players….you would have to think that the majority of them feel trapped and don’t want to be there….nobody likes losing…that’s why they need a coach change…new blood….but it’s just not going to happen

    Dolan should invest in a show called “The Knickerbockers”….and get it on VH1…LOL

  34. Caleb

    The Simmons, Bell & Gadzuric contracts are all shorter than Zach’s. I’d do that trade with or without Charlie V. (unfortunately it sounds like Kohl is on to the scam). It’s actually an encouraging news item. If true, it means Isiah is looking for a salary dump, whatever he’s saying in public. And it’s no guarantee, but a “league source” is more reliable than a biased (team) source…

    … like the “Nuggets source.” A trade for Nene would be horrible (aside from everything else his deal is actually a year LONGER than Zach, Curry, et al) but given the cited source it sounds like a test balloon. If he said the Knicks are “considering” the deal it could as easily mean that they offered Nene for Marbury & Lee and Isiah hung up.

  35. Caleb

    The Simmons, Bell & Gadzuric contracts are all shorter than Zach’s. I’d do that trade with or without Charlie V. (unfortunately it sounds like Kohl is on to the scam). It’s actually an encouraging news item. If true, it means Isiah is looking for a salary dump, whatever he’s saying in public. And it’s no guarantee, but a “league source” is more reliable than a biased (team) source…

    … like the “Nuggets source.” A trade for Nene would be horrible (aside from everything else his deal is actually a year LONGER than Zach, Curry, et al) but given the cited source it sounds like a test balloon. If he said the Knicks are “considering” the deal it could as easily mean that they offered Nene for Marbury & Lee and Isiah hung up.

    Don’t get me wrong — I have very little faith that IT will do the right thing. The truth is bad enough. But it’s also true that every team in the league floats ridiculous trade ideas involving they Knicks, because their GMs also think IT is a fool. It doesn’t mean he’s actually considering them.

  36. cavjam

    Does the NBA keep stats on “career highs against?” Seems every other game the Knicks afford some B level player his career high. “Career high” seems associated with this year’s Knicks almost as much as “franchise record” and “since 1960.”

    It would be nice if someone would explain to Isaiah the definition of “guard.”

    Dolan hasn’t fired IT because for him to do so would entail his taking his thumb out of his mouth.

    How bad is a team when one seriously considers activating Jerome James to add some spark?

  37. Frank

    Caleb– I may have wrong info but according to the trade machine Bell and Gadzuric have 3 years AFTER this year and Simmons has two years after this year – so I guess it is a $4M or so cap savings after Simmons comes off but unlikely to be enough to make any real difference in terms of free agent signings– is that worth it to have three more crappy limited expensive players on our team?

  38. Frank

    Caleb– I may have wrong info but according to the trade machine Bell and Gadzuric have 3 years AFTER this year (Same as Zach) and Simmons has two years after this year – so I guess it is a $4M or so cap savings after Simmons comes off but unlikely to be enough to make any real difference in terms of free agent signings– is that worth it to have three more crappy limited expensive players on our team?

  39. Caleb

    Frank, you are mostly right – I was careless, relying on memory.

    Simmons expires in 2010, but Gadzuric runs through 2011 and Bell (a much smaller deal) through 2012.

    Bottom line: trading Randolph for those guys would create a little more than $6 million extra cap room in the key summer of 2010, but commit us to $4 million extra in the summer of 2011.

    It’s a slight improvement in our salary situation, but seen in this new (to me) light, it’s probably not worth it — Randolph’s value will probably increase, if anything, as the length of his remaining deal gets shorter… so this probably won’t be our last chance to unload.

  40. jon abbey

    “I have very little faith that IT will do the right thing. The truth is bad enough. But it’s also true that every team in the league floats ridiculous trade ideas involving they Knicks, because their GMs also think IT is a fool. It doesn’t mean he’s actually considering them.”

    you give him too much credit IMO, that’s the second time this year that good sources have claimed that Milwaukee has turned down a version of that deal, not Isiah. Vecsey reported something very similar a month or two ago.

    and yes, amazingly enough, that Milwaukee deal and a deal for Nene would both leave us even worse off going forward. I’m pretty confident that any move NY makes today will be a bad one, hopefully nothing will happen.

  41. Caleb

    The Milwaukee deal would actually leave us in better shape, but as Frank points out, not by much. It WOULD save us about $6 million in summer 2010, the same effect as if we pawned off Jared Jeffries.

    I suppose we might be marginally worse in the meantime, but I’m not so sure about that.

    My only objection to the trade is that in the next two years, I think we could find bigger cap savings, or even an extra draft pick.

    Anyway, if the story is true, it at least suggests that Isiah is trying to dump Randolph for cap room. We all think that’s good.

    But the devil is in the details. If he includes Balkman as a “throw-in” it suddenly becomes a terrible deal.

    I suppose since Kohl has reportedly nixed the idea, it’s moot.

    A Nene trade would be horrible, as you say.

    I say it’

  42. Thomas B.

    One of the funniest things during the game is when Gus and Clyde were talking about the recent trades involving points. Then they start suggesting trades involving Stephon Marbury.

    Gus: “Can you imagine what Stephon Marbury could do on the Cavs?”

    Cylde: “Oh yeah, or the Lakers, they are suspect at the point position.”

    Not exact quotes but something along those lines. I have never heard home team announcers actually recommend trade of a team player. Wow! Even the announcers want to Marbury gone. Anyone else catch that last night?

  43. retropkid

    over the last two games, the Knicks are playing .500 basketball…now that’s something we can build from….

    ….oh sorry, for a moment there I was channeling Zeke…

  44. mason

    Gus and Walt want to help the Knicks by talking up a player who’s to other teams, i dont think they are bad mouthing Marbury

  45. Thomas B.

    retro,

    Don’t forget that the Knicks are 16-0 in games that they score more points than the other team. We can build off that too.

  46. cbrooklyn

    The best thing that can happen today is Isiah catches the 3:05 flight to mars taking eddy muffins with him!..ONE WAY TICKETS!

  47. ess-dog

    I hope something happens. I don’t care if it’s bad or good- I just want the soap opera to continue. We need entertainment. I would do Nene for Zach and Q. Nene’s insured right?

  48. Caleb

    Nene = $10.2m

    Q – 8.9
    ZR – 13.3

    so, Nugs would have to throw in some players.. Steven Hunter & Najeera would add up to $8.5m… add in a few more minimum salary guys and Presto.

    If Nene is insured, it’s not the worst idea in the world. His contract is longer, but a lot cheaper… saves $6 million off the cap in summer of 2010. And if he gets back to the level he was at before, he’s overpaid but not nearly as badly as Randolph or Curry… his $10m might be unloadable in the next year or two, if he shows he’s healthy.

    And if he’s insured and takes medical retirement, we’re all set~!

  49. Caleb

    sorry, my numbers are all over the place today… Nene does only make $8.8 this year. But this still works:
    Nene/Hunter/Najera/Wafer/Carter for Randolph/Q.

    And this trade would actually save us more than $10 million off the cap, in the summer of 2009. Another move or two and we might be under the cap.

    The Nugs trade would save us $6.3 million in the summer of 2010.

    Substituting Jerome James for Q would save slightly less money, but might be better in that Q could conceivably be traded in a future deal.

  50. Frank

    How about Nene, Najera, and JR Smith for Zach… salaries match, Najera/JR disappear after this year, will decrease our cap by $4-5M in 2010. It’s not great, I know, but JR at least has some upside that we can take a look at the rest of the year, and Nene (if he can ever stay healthy, big question) at least brings toughness and athleticism to the 4. A frontcourt rotation of Curry, Nene, and Lee with Nene playing at least half the time at C might be half decent.

    I’d love to get Kleiza but I somehow don’t imagine that is going to happen.

  51. Caleb

    how about:
    Nene, Najera & JR Smith for Crawford & Jeffries?

    It makes more sense for Denver. If we re-sign JR Smith for say, $5m per, the money is a wash but we end up with better players (also more tradeable players if we want to move them later). Or, we let Smith walk and get $5-6 million closer to the cap in the summers of 2009 and 2010.

    Or, we could make the trade bigger… we add Nate; they add their first round pick this year or next. In terms of value it’s no big difference, but we’d save another $3-5 million towards the cap, by paying a rookie instead of Nate’s extension.

    Of course that’s my cold-hearted side… I’d hate to see him go.

  52. Z

    “Or, we could make the trade bigger…”

    How about we package David Lee with the other 14 players on the roster and try to pull off a real blockbuster. Come 3 pm today maybe we could the entire Milwaukee Bucks roster wearing the blue and orange…

  53. Frank O.

    My sense of bottom, jon, is a 40 pt loss that could lead to a canning of Isiah.
    I was thinking such a loss to such a team might serve as a tipping point.
    The idea that Zeke is even trying trades undermines that argument, for sure.
    I’m not sure I like even moving curry to miami and getting carter from the Nets.
    I’d love a straight trade to Miami and getting an expiring contract back that would clear space for the Bricks in 2010.

  54. Thomas B.

    “thomas b is channelling Frank Caliendo?”

    The Knicks would be much better if they had Bret Farve running the point. See because Bret Farve is a winner, and it doesnt matter what sport you play when you’re a winner, you are going to win. Becuase you don’t get to be a winner unless you win more games than you don’t win.

  55. Thomas B.

    Caleb,

    Sounds good. Crawford’s stock is never going to be higher (sad huh) and he is not grossly overpaid for what he does. The problem is Crawford only has value with the ball in his hands. With Iverson and Anthony, when would Crawford get the ball in his hands? If we could do Crawford and Zach for Smith, Martin (or Nene), and this year’s first rounder, I say do it. Even if Nene cant play again this year so what. We need to tank to collect ping pong balls. Hopefully we can draft Rose and have a lineup of
    Rose
    Smith
    Balkman
    Lee
    Nene.

    That lineup is a better balance than what we have now.
    —-

    I am really loving the way Lee is playing lately. The thing I like about him is that he brings something new each season. He now has added some range to his offense but he is smart enough not to force shots. He takes what the D gives him. Plus have you noticed how much he helps the half court offense with his screens and cuts to the basket? Niether Zach or Curry do that. I think he plays that way becuase he was coached well at Florida. When drafting a player you cant underestimate the value of the coach and system they had in college. That is why i like Rose over Beasley. Call me crazy.

  56. Ken "The Animal" Bannister

    Luckily the Carter/Curry deal was total fiction – hatched up by S. Smith (of the Trib). Riley was quoted as saying that it was “straight out of the blogosphere”

  57. TDM

    Craw to the Nuggets? You have to be kidding. Denver was balking at taking Zach because they thought HE needed the ball too much.

    The best bet is trying to get Riles to take Steady Eddy for J Williams straight up. Still a long shot however.

    An aside: sounds like a three team trade is in place between Memphis-Houston-New Orleans.

  58. Frank O.

    I’d settle for a caning of Isiah, these days, Jon.

    Thomas B.
    I have to agree with you about Lee, but I get the sense that he’s not kept in the flow of the game by other players.
    He’s like that guy in a pick up game that doesn’t know or isn’t good friends with the other four guys out there. If he’s a good player, he can do things to help out, and try to build trust in the guys around him. But he’s never totally in the flow. It’s too bad, because I think he would be much more.

  59. jon abbey

    “I’d settle for a caning of Isiah, these days, Jon.”

    heh, I was going to make a Singapore joke myself above, but I resisted. think about the ratings that would get in the tri-state area though!

  60. Owen

    Lee has been playing really well. The last fifteen games he is averaging 13 points in 31 minutes per game, on 77-113 shooting and 41-46 from the line for a ts% of 74%, with 24 to’s, and 9 rebounds per.

  61. Thomas B.

    Frank,

    I agree that lee sticks out like a sore thumb on this team (in a good way). Maybe he is viewed as that kid who always blows the curve by getting an A++ on every test. Lee clearly works very hard, and sometimes that sort of thing upsets lazy players. The Knicks are full of lazy players. The easier targets are Curry, Randolph, James, and Richardson becuase of their lack of conditioning. How many Knicks have actually improved at any point in their tenure. You could argue that only Lee and Robinson have. Robinson for all his flaws between the ears is a hard worker. It is too soon to condem or praise Chandler or Balkman. Outside of Robinson and Lee I don’t see any Knicks truly working hard.

    I do see what you mean though. The majority of the team is not warm to him. He was good friends with Frye. He seems to get along with Robinson. I actually noticed that Marbury seemed to take a liking to Lee. He and Marbury seemed to have good chemistry and Marbury routinely praised Lee’s efforts. But Frye and Mabury are not around. Right now (and this is by my own admission is a horrible analogy) Lee looks like the choirboy in the prison yard. He deserves better.

  62. cwod

    in his chat, chad ford says he likes simmons’ proposed marbury, rose, and lee for o’neal and tinsley deal.

  63. dave crockett

    Thomas B,

    I definitely get your overall point but I wonder what you’re seeing that I’m not seeing with some of the references you make.

    Although it’s safe to characterize Curry and James as lazy, I don’t see where you’d get that about Zebo or Q-Rich. Zebo is an indifferent defender, but he’s one of the most active players on the floor for the Knicks. Now activity isn’t the same as effectiveness, but but it’s definitely the opposite of lazy. Zebo’s taken his dumpy frame with limited athleticism, and through hard work turned himself into a respected (if overvalued) basketball player. Q is no longer an especially useful player but I think it’s clear that his back rather than laziness is the primary culprit. Q changed his game substantially when he came to NY to a rebounder and defender as an undersized SF.

    We all love David Lee, but I don’t think the story about him is that he works hard while these other guys are slackers. Or that Lee’s work ethic has ostracized him from his teammates. I haven’t seen evidence of that, though it’s quite possible I missed it. I think we can acknowledge Lee’s talent and work ethic, and the limitations of many of his teammates, without resorting to that kind of narrative. To me, this roster with a few exceptions has guys on it that are quite likable (if not always good players), who frankly deserve so much better than they’ve gotten from this organization.

  64. Caleb

    we don’t know that… it could take a few hours to sort through the paperwork and announce whatever happened.

    I have to say, if Artest is still a King at the end of the day… I don’t understand.

  65. Thomas B.

    Dave C.,

    On my seeing things that you arent seeing. I thought someone might see a culturally insensitive comment in my likening Lee to the choirboy and the rest of the Knick as prison inmates. Most of the Knicks are nice guys its just that other than Robinson and Balkman, Lee out works everyone.

    We can agree to disagree but I do think Zebo is lazy. It isnt just defense. He does not set picks or fight for position in the post. He rarely (if ever) runs the floor on breaks or runs back on defense. His activity on offense is to take a shot whenever he can. Zebo is not inactive, but he looks like he is standing still next to Lee. He does fight for boards I give him that. But too many times has he failed to even raise an arm on defense or step up to take a charge. He has the talent to do more and yet he will not. I say that is lazy.

    I say that Q is lazy because he will not improve his conditioning. It would help his back issues to drop a few pounds, much like Larry Johnson did. Perhaps I was out of line with Q. The guys cares and maybe he cant do as much because of his numerous physical problems. Fair enough.

    I guess the question for you is this; do you think that the other players are high to Lee as a teammate? Perhaps I was to quick to judge. When you look at it, very few of the Knicks seem to like each other.

    Back in my day (the old man in me coming out) I ran track. I always ran hard and some of my teammates wanted me to dog it a bit so that they wouldnt have to run as hard in practice. I never held back for them, so I wasnt the most well liked guy on the team. There was also something about me being an insufferable know-it-all and making jokes that noone else got. Luckily that is all behind me.

  66. Frank

    Well guys, I guess no big moves barring any post-deadline revelations. I’m thinking we’re going to see a big-time implosion of this team now — my guess is that players like Randolph might have played hard to make themselves look better to other teams, but now that they are stuck on this sinking ship until at least the offseason, they’re just going to tank.

    one can only hope that’s true at least. Derrick Rose or Michael Beasley, here we come!!!

  67. David Crockett

    “I guess the question for you is this; do you think that the other players are high to Lee as a teammate? Perhaps I was to quick to judge. When you look at it, very few of the Knicks seem to like each other.”

    [I should note, it wasn't my intention to accuse you of being culturally insensitive. I've missed a lot more games this season than last. So you may honestly know something I don't about tension between Lee and his teammates.]

    When I watch the Knicks I’m not picking up tension with Lee on the court. Hell, I assume (perhaps foolishly) everybody likes playing with him because they play better with him on the court. The one guy with something to lose in that arrangement is Randolph, but since he’s played alongside Lee (who looks for him) I doubt Zebo has a beef.

    Off the court, who knows? But I’d speculate that Lee isn’t any kind of local celeb that might make others jealous.

  68. Thomas B.

    David C.

    I’m not saying that I thought you were calling me culturally insensitive. I was using “someone” in the general sense, not specific to you.

    I hear what you’re saying. Its not so much a Lee out in the cold thing as much as it is a general lack of excitement from the players towards each other. I watched the Hornets play last night and they were all high fives and smiles with each other. I didnt see any Knick go up to Lee and congratulate him on his excellent play against the Wiz. But to be fair, none of the Knicks do that to any other Knick this season. But what really do they have to be happy about.

    Its just that Lee works so hard you would think the other players would show more emotion about his efforts. He is the one guy that does it all every night and guys like that should be the center of the team. He looks alone out there because he is working while the rest of the guys are watching.

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