You can talk about Peja’s perceived shortcomings in the playoffs (he had some pitiful years and some excellent years in the playoffs), but the Knicks are nowhere near the playoffs. They have to worry about building a team that can actually sniff the playoffs before worrying about a team that can get through the playoffs. The Kings won 55 games 4 seasons in a row, which is something the Knicks should be aspiring to do.

“You pinpointed my biggest fear about Gallo, that he is more Peja than say Hedo or Dirk.”

Hedo isn’t that good. Definitely overrated right now. Peja hasn’t aged well, but on his career he’s been at least as good as Hedo: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=stojape01&y1=2010&p2=turkohe01&y2=2010

I do think that Danilo has the Hedo level passing ability. If you look at Hedo’s assist numbers they started out pretty weak and have improved throughout his career. That’s the general trend with non-PG playmakers.

“I know in Europe he was a beast, but unfortunately for us the NBA isnt played in Europe.”

One thing I’ve been saying since the Knicks drafted Danilo is that I just can’t think of a European player who was as good as Danilo as young as Danilo who hasn’t gone on to NBA success. Most of the big busts just weren’t any good in Europe either. I lived in Spain for 5 years, so I follow ACB (Spanish league) and Euroleague a bit.

“If he couldn’t create in Italy what makes any of us think he can do so here?”

1. He was 18, 19 and asked to shoulder the load of his Euroleague team’s offense. He wasn’t asked to create for others, he was asked to score. A 19 year old Without looking at them, I don’t think his assist numbers were at all bad for a wing, just didn’t stand out.
2. There is a general trend where non-PG playmakers have higher assist rates as their careers progress.

“Why would a #6 overall pick, who the coach admitedly loves not be asked to do more on a TERRIBLE team?… You think the Blazers went into a season not wanting to ask Brandon Roy for alot?”

Because he’s 21 and coming off back surgery, maybe. He lies on his back when not on the court this season, a good indicator his back is hurting.

Roy was 22 his rookie season, and is the exception at #6 not the rule:
99–Wally Szczerbiak
00–DerMarr Johnson
01–Shane Battier
02–Dajuan Wagner
03–Chris Kaman
04–Josh Childress
05–Martell Webster
06–Roy
07–Yi Jianlian
08–Danilo

Roy is far and away the best player on the list to date. There’s not one other player drafted #6 since 1999 who you can ask to shoulder an NBA offense, let alone as a 2nd year guy coming off back surgery.

“he missed his lone 2 point shot vs Miami.”

It was one shot. Can you really draw any conclusions from that?

“but going back to my very first post I asked what has he done in reality not through projection.”

Advanced stats aren’t projections. They are reality. The numbers themselves can’t be misleading as far as reflecting what happened, but can be when used for projections. A person’s (myself included) interpretation of them can also be misleading (say Hollinger’s PER).

“I just want to make sure I see what you all do when it comes to Gallo.”

I don’t think anyone sees him as great yet, but promising. He’s produced in the (limited) chances he’s had in NY plus in Italy, which in my mind makes him more promising than, say, Wilson Chandler who also has plenty of potential but has been consistently subpar for two seasons.
When you look at player statistics (the right ones, the one I call advanced stats: per minute and rate/percentage stats).

Phelps…

Keep in mind that Gallinari is still very, very young. If you were expecting him to look “great” as a 20 year old (with or without injury) then you are either extremely impatient or hopelessly unrealistic. The biggest disappointment of his rookie year was the minutes played. When he played, he played very well.

I’m actually not sure what you are seeing when you see a bust. He has the “bust” label on him because Marc Berman, who married himself to Stephon Marbury as a news source, didn’t like the way Marbury was exiled by Walsh and D’Antoni and went out of his way to try to make the Gallinari pick look bad. So if you read Berman and nothing else, you’d think Gallinari was destined to be a failure.

If you read more objective sources, or actually watched the (few) games Gallo played last year, it was apparent there was a lot to be excited about, especially considering his young age.

Yes, If you remember Peja never came through for the Kings in those big playoff series especially vs the Lakers. Also Peja relied heavily on great passers around him ie Webber, Vlade and Bibby. You pinpointed my biggest fear about Gallo, that he is more Peja than say Hedo or Dirk.

“I think you’re stigmatizing Danilo’s defense a little because he’s European.”

Absolutely not. I love AK47 I believe he is a tremendous defender and all around player, he is European. As too is Andris Biedrins. Not completely fair I know, but the notion that Im “stigmatizing” is without merit. I hope he turns out to become a great player, I just havent seen it on the NBA level yet.

“Imagine LeBron and/or Wade kicking it out to Danilo next season… ”

I think we all know why LeBron and Wade’s teams as built, can never truly succeed. Not because a lack of spot up shooters, see Cleveland’s last year. But because of defense and players who can create for themselves and others. IF Gallo turns out (And I truly hope he does) like Dirk or even Hedo then yes it works, but if he is just this generation’s Peja who cant attack the basket or create off the dribble i question the selection at 6. Why not trade down??

“In Europe his game was not predicated on spot up shooting. He was a slasher with a solid but unspectacular outside shot”

I know in Europe he was a beast, but unfortunately for us the NBA isnt played in Europe. Again if you were to look back at my previous posts i ask what he has done on a NBA court.

“He wasn’t a great point-forward creator type in Italy either”

With this one quote you summed up my greatest fear in Danilo. If he couldn’t create in Italy what makes any of us think he can do so here? Now if we are going under the pretence that he is JUST a spot up shooter than ok, but Ive been told from nearly every “EXPERT” that he has the ability to become a Hedo or even more. On this very site someone started to look at Dirk’s second year numbers for comparison … maybe overshooting on that one huh?

“Right now Danilo is playing a limited role, spotting up for jumpers. He’s not being asked to do anything more than that”

Why would a #6 overall pick, who the coach admitedly loves not be asked to do more on a TERRIBLE team? Does that make sense to anyone? You think the Blazers went into a season not wanting to ask Brandon Roy for alot? Didnt think so either.

“However, what are the chances that he scores more than 22 points if he shoots more 2 pters???”

Normally I would say they are great, except the fact that he missed his lone 2 point shot vs Miami.

“Since you’re new to the board, as far as I know, I don’t know if you are up on advanced stats. If so than I don’t know how you can not be high on Danilo at this point. Certainly there are a lot of question marks remaining, but the scoring numbers to date speak for themselves: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gallida01.html”

Now admittedly Im not nearly as knowledgeable as you or others on this site with advanced stats, but I think in certain circumstances they, just like per game stats can be misleading. I will try to learn more about the advanced stats and im sure being on this site will help, but going back to my very first post I asked what has he done in reality not through projection.

“Think about some of the great wings, take Jordan. Would you really rather take many 6-10 guys over them?”

I laughed when I saw this. How can I win an agruement when you throw out JORDAN? Lets be real. However, Im sure if you were to look at all the great players of all time, the lists of dominant championship caliber players who are 6’10 and over is a much stronger list than the under. Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, Wilt, Russell, Kareem ect.

Im not trying to be a dick, and I dont want to get off on the wrong foot. You obviously love the Knicks like I do. I just want to make sure I see what you all do when it comes to Gallo. Ive been reading this site for sometime now and I hear nothing but praise for Gallo. Yet he hasnt done anything yet. In the 14 games last year he looked good, but not great. Plus he already has injury problems. Call it a fluke if you want, but it still remains. I hope for all of our sakes you guys are right, Im just waiting on the proof. The concrete type, not of the projected variety. Im done though on the posts about Gallo I hope he does it again vs Charlotte.

Go Knicks!

Kevin,

That’s a good point. At the same time, in evaluating the regime you can ask why they were more inclined to take crappy players than good ones. As a fan it’s nice to know that your team is barely missing, rather than wholly inept. As Knicks fans all we’ve seen for a decade is wholly inept, so it’s easy to be cynical.

There’s also a lot of misdirection that goes on leading up to the draft, and Walsh seems pretty slick at this. For example, Walsh might have laughed about Joe Alexander privately but floated rumors about his interest to pump up his stock and in a relative way deflate the stock of guys he was actually considering. (A real example: Rick Pitino said there was no way he would consider drafting his former player Ron Mercer… until he did just that at #6.) Or maybe Walsh really did love Alexander… My point is that as a fan it’s hard to speculate on what the team’s draft board actually looked like.

After this draft Walsh said Tyreke Evans will be the 2nd best player in the whole draft. Since he had little at stake when he said that (again, after the draft), I wonder if that’s his real opinion.

sj12,

We can’t make the decisions ourselves, so all we can do is speculate.

Was there something wrong with Peja in his prime? For as bad as his defensive reputation was/is, Peja managed to play big minutes on some of the best defensive teams in that era. No one on the Knicks defends, and I think you’re stigmatizing Danilo’s defense a little because he’s European. In a few years I don’t see why he can’t play big minutes on a good/great defensive team like other European wings have: Kukoc, Peja, Hedo.
If Danilo can be equivalent caliber spot up shooting wing to Peja I have no problem taking him 6th. In that case it won’t be him that will be the Knicks problem but not having guys the caliber of Webber, Divac, Christie, Bibby, Jackson, etc. (Unless, hopefully, they have guys that caliber or better.) If Danilo is just a one-dimensional spot up shooter who can at least hold his own on D then he could be a very valuable player if the Knicks ever field a decent team… Imagine LeBron and/or Wade kicking it out to Danilo next season…

I do not, however, think that this is all we’re going to see out of Danilo on his career. In Europe his game was not predicated on spot up shooting. He was a slasher with a solid but unspectacular outside shot. I am thrilled that his shot has been what it’s been in the NBA, because I was skeptical about his jumper coming into the draft. He wasn’t a great point-forward creator type in Italy either. However he was the featured scorer of a Euroleague team at a very young age, so given his ball-handling and passing abilities you have to figure he has at least Hedo caliber point-forward potential (a very dangerous word, I know). We’ve also seen Danilo take players into the post previously and look good there. I think the NBA game is too fast for him right now, but that doesn’t mean he won’t catch up. Even European veterans who come over tend to get a lot better after one year in the league.
Right now Danilo is playing a limited role, spotting up for jumpers. He’s not being asked to do anything more than that, so it would be unfair to criticize him for, say, not being a low-post center like Brook Lopez. If you have a problem with a 6-10 player taking 13 threes, then blame D’Antoni. However, what are the chances that he scores more than 22 points if he shoots more 2 pters???

As you can see, I am of the opinion that Danilo is a wing. At this point I have no doubt he is. Maybe he matures into a 4, but I think playing him at the 4 at this point is another product of D’Antoni shoving square pegs into round holes to try to make his system work. Assuming that anyone can do what Shawn Marion did (I made the same mistake when D’Antoni first arrived, and Jon Abbey pointed out just how unique Marion’s skill set was: rebounding, defense, passable outside shooting, and a strong finisher at the rim.) Danilo doesn’t rebound well for a big and will be lost most nights in the paint defensively. He was purely a perimeter player at the highest levels he reached in Europe. It’s going to be a big adjustment that may or may not work.

“YES, I am really ripping a guy who scored 22 pts vs a bad Heat defense. Especially when we could have got a guy (Lopez) who got 5 more blocks, 1 more steal, 9 more rebounds, 4 more assists than Gallo… Oh and btw he scored 27 pts, 5 more than the Rooster.”

Last season the Heat had the 11th best defense in the NBA, vs. the 20th best offense… (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2009.html) They’ve brought back a pretty similar team, so I don’t know why you’d call it a bad defense. The Lakers only had the 6th best defense, so better than the Heat but not incredibly better.

It’s only one game and you can’t just compare a SF to a C. A C should block more shots and get more rebounds than a SF. 6 rebounds in 28 min is a solid showing for a SF (7.7 per 36 minutes and in this case a rebound rate of 12.5), especially one that was camped out on the perimeter offensively all game.
Anyway I don’t have a problem with complaining about passing on Lopez, as I think I made pretty clear in my last post. I would say that it’s only one player. If only one better player ends up being taken behind your guy then you probably did pretty well.
In the Hill and even Douglas cases there were a whole bunch of guys I would have rather seen Walsh take, and I’m not even one of the harsher critics of his draft. (My issue is more with SO MANY teams passing on Lawson and Blair than with Walsh individually. Although I wasn’t thrilled with his draft, I am willing to take a wait-and-see approach. Which is good, since I have no power to do anything but wait-and-see.)

“I dont know what you guys have actually seen on the floor ON A CONSISTENT BASIS that makes you LOVE Gallo. ”

Since you’re new to the board, as far as I know, I don’t know if you are up on advanced stats. If so than I don’t know how you can not be high on Danilo at this point. Certainly there are a lot of question marks remaining, but the scoring numbers to date speak for themselves: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gallida01.html

“Your point about Gordon is a fair one, but looking at their opening night performances and considering the competiton, I find it hard to believe that Gallo is the better choice. Ofcourse I would prefer a 6?10 player over a 6?5-6?6 one, but Gordon went to the ft line more, got more assts, more steals and even more BLOCKS than Gallo did while being defended by Kobe and Artest!!!!!!”

It’s one game. I’m sure that lesser players than Gordon will have much better games against the Lakers this season, and on the other hand I’m sure that Gordon will have much worse nights against much worse teams.
Again, Danilo did what was asked of him and he did it well. I don’t know what more you can ask.
Gordon is 6’2″ w/out shoes/ 6’3.5″ with shoes (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2008&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=), not 6-5, 6-6… I don’t know if it’s wise to say that you’d rather have a 6-10 guy then a 6-5, 6-6 guy anyway. Think about some of the great wings, take Jordan. Would you really rather take many 6-10 guys over them?
Gordon has a completely different role from Danilo’s: he’s a high scoring guard who can hit from inside and out, he’s going to score points and he’s going to get to the line. Against the Lakers he took more possessions to score less points than Danilo did against the Heat (when you factor in the possessions used on FTs). To me, he’s pretty reminiscent of other talented guards who shoot too much and score inefficiently (say, Jamal Crawford). He’s probably at least as much of a defensive liability at the 2 as Danilo is at the 3/4. I like him, but I would say he’s probably a guy who is ideally your third guard. In reality he might be LAC’s leading scorer this season and will probably get $10mm plus per year on his second contract. That’s a big reason I don’t like him.

If you dont see anything wrong with a 6’10 player who only shoots three pointers while being defended by smaller players, all the while putting up a great stat line such as 0 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 FTA and 0 blocks & steals then I obviously need whatever glasses you have to watch Knicks games with.

Now, you did hit the main problem on the head, Walsh & Dantoni’s idea of finding players who FIT their “system”.

Imagine if we took Lopez or even a chance on Randolph last year. We then wouldn’t have needed to get “David Lee insurance” this year with the selection of Jordan Hill. If we had Lopez along side of David we could have taken a chance on picking Lawson with our first pick, then Blair at the end of the round instead of Douglas.

At this point its all wishful thinking, I know, but I dont know what you guys have actually seen on the floor ON A CONSISTENT BASIS that makes you LOVE Gallo.

Your point about Gordon is a fair one, but looking at their opening night performances and considering the competiton, I find it hard to believe that Gallo is the better choice. Ofcourse I would prefer a 6’10 player over a 6’5-6’6 one, but Gordon went to the ft line more, got more assts, more steals and even more BLOCKS than Gallo did while being defended by Kobe and Artest!!!!!!

I hope you all are right, but I have yet to see Gallo do anything with his vast skill set other than shoot threes. He is a tremendous shooter, but with the #8 selection Im sure you can find a much better piece than a one dimensional player who has no desire to drive or defend to build your team around.

SO to answer your question, YES, I am really ripping a guy who scored 22 pts vs a bad Heat defense. Especially when we could have got a guy (Lopez) who got 5 more blocks, 1 more steal, 9 more rebounds, 4 more assists than Gallo… Oh and btw he scored 27 pts, 5 more than the Rooster.

Owen– how quickly we repress bad memories! In an alternate universe where Isiah was never allowed to make the Curry trade the Knicks could have drafted Roy with the #2 pick in 2006 (it was used by the Bulls on Aldridge in this universe) and drafted Noah at his regular place in 2007.

So the lineup could be:

PG: Lawson
SG: Roy
C: Noah
PF: Lee
SF: Gallo.

Forget Lopez. Keep Gallo. (There’d be no Balkman too, in this Universe (because we wouldn’t have done the Jalen Rose trade to replace the lost pick). (No Chandler too, since we’d have kept the Noah pick)).

Not sure if back in 2006 stat-heads were singing the praises of Roy coming out of college the way they were Lawson and Blair. Was there a strong indication he’d be the best player in that draft? If not, we can’t really include him in this alternate-universe exercise, I guess, but knowing that we could have had Roy hurts me more than knowing we could have had Lawson of Blair…