Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Friday, August 1, 2014

Knicks 85, Pacers 75

Indiana Pacers 75 Final
Recap | Box Score
85 New York Knicks
Carmelo Anthony, SF 42 MIN | 12-28 FG | 3-4 FT | 6 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 28 PTS | +6

It wadn’t pretty. It wadn’t smooth. But damnit was it timely. Melo once again had his fill of Paul George’s meat-hooks, but buried enough jumpers – clean and contested alike – to keep the lead safe. As for the iso stuff, at this point we have to just accept a star’s ego for what it is; In any grind like this, that’s where the ball’s going in crunch time.

A lot of people went apeshit when Melo refused to exploit George and his five fouls down the stretch. Personally, I thought the shots were fine – the mid-range game was working, to a decent degree, and if Hibbert’s consequence-free bullying was any indication, the refs would just assume remove their own toenails with a screwdriver than whistle either one for a sixth.

Iman Shumpert, SF 26 MIN | 2-10 FG | 0-0 FT | 6 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 5 PTS | +8

Can we call it a shlump? Sure we can. The good news is Shump was moving around a little better on the sore left knee. The bad news is the jumper that was just starting to settle into permanent moist has suddenly sputtered. For which I mostly blame the hesitancy – when he’s catching and shooting (from the corner in particular), he’s been superb, whereas the two-or-three dribble pull-ups tend to be a bit of an adventure.

Shump once again made his presence known on the boards and D, however, and even managed to grab a tech for getting in David West’s face. Which, I mean, David West is a human sack of PCP – kudos for tweaking that ish.

Tyson Chandler, C 27 MIN | 1-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 8 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 2 BLK | 0 TO | 2 PTS | 0

The reaction we had to watching Tyson take that tumble late in the fourth – trying desperately to get Hibbert the fuck off the court – was a little like being parents of a middle school honor student who suddenly turned down a dark high school path and getting a call at three in the morning during the kid’s junior year to find out he broke his leg scaling a high school staircase in a single bound on a two-dollar dare: You know he’s been kind of a fuckup recently, but damnit if your heart doesn’t skip a dozen beats.

Tyson was invisible for much of the game, letting Hibbert have his way for extended stretches, setting screens like a seventh grader at a school dance, and generally having a hard time securing the basketball. He did register a pair of violent blocks (the one on Hansbrough made me drool blood) and a nice “dunk” off a lob from Felton. If you wanna call it that. But it’s the back we have to be worried about now. I suppose if Chandler had to craw like a worm to the locker room, we’d be more concerned, but NO ACTUALLY I’M COMPLETELY SUFFICIENTLY CONCEREND, THANK YOU.

Raymond Felton, PG 37 MIN | 6-14 FG | 0-0 FT | 5 REB | 4 AST | 3 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 12 PTS | +7

Count me in the camp of those who expected Ray to go full-blown bath salts on poor D.J. Augustin – just gnaw those stupid sideburns into paste. Like Melo, Felton’s was something of a herky-jerky evening: he hit some big, big shots, mis-fired on a lot of routine looks, and never asserted himself for more than a few minutes at a time. He was pretty outstanding on D, however, fighting through/over screens with aplomb and snagging a trio of steals – one of which he converted into something called a “fast break point.” I do not know what this is.

Pablo Prigioni, PG 19 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 3 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 3 PTS | +3

In the two days since his inexplicable benching, Pablo Prigioni has been like the one milk carton kid that everyone seems to care about: Where did he go? Was he really last seen by an “oval-headed man with a glue-on beard?” Why is there a 35-year-old man on the side of a milk carton?

Pablo’s 19 minutes for mostly uneventful. But Prigs’ presence has never been about stat-line street cred; rather, it’s about the actual intangibles that Woodson talks about when he talks about the guys no longer capable of providing actual intangibles. He moved the ball, he played passable defense, and he made Indiana think about where he was on the court. All of that alone was plenty.

Amar’e Stoudemire, PF 7 MIN | 0-0 FG | 2-2 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 2 PTS | +4

Started things off rather nicely, smoking Mahimni in the spin-cycle and hitting on both throws. Two minutes later, Chris Copeland was yelling at him for blowing a rotation. Man, that has to smart.

Kenyon Martin, PF 20 MIN | 2-2 FG | 3-4 FT | 2 REB | 1 AST | 1 STL | 2 BLK | 1 TO | 7 PTS | +8

K-Mart was much more effective than he’s been pretty much the whole series, even if the contributions were mostly ancillary. Setting good screens, coming up with a pair of barbaric blocks – it might not seem like a lot for 20 minutes, but they were all hugely important. He also continues to be unstoppable with his left hand, somehow.

Chris Copeland, SF 19 MIN | 4-6 FG | 2-2 FT | 4 REB | 1 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 13 PTS | +2

Lest you thought Prigs was the only dirt-old crank Knicks Knation had taken to pining for, Cope finally – mercifully – made more than just a meaningless cameo, hitting shots with confidence and holding his own at the other end. Perhaps the jitters of the Celtics series have fallen by the wayside. Whatever the explanation, Cope clearly needs more minutes. And no, the irony of him having the balls to yell at Amar’e – the one man whose minutes he’ll likely be snatching – isn’t lost on anyone.

Jason Kidd, PG 5 MIN | 0-1 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | +2

By now we’re all privy: Jason Kidd hasn’t scored a point in close to 200 playoff minutes. After going zero for what-the-fuck-ever in Game 4, J-Kidd had a legitimate shot at ending this absurd streak when Kenyon Martin deftly tipped a jump ball out of the Pacers’ zone and towards the streaking Kidd, who hesitated just enough to get D.J. Augustin to fly haplessly by, laying it up gently off the glass, and…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..…………………………………..………………………………….. watching it roll off. Seriously, I microwaved two Stouffers dinners in the time it took for Kidd’s layup to roll off. Eight minutes. It was on the rim for eight minutes.

One turnover later, Kidd was back on the bench for good. By “for good,” I of course mean “the rest of the game,” because intangibles.

J.R. Smith, SG 36 MIN | 4-11 FG | 4-5 FT | 6 REB | 2 AST | 3 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 13 PTS | +8

Waking up at 5pm to find out that Rihanna’s called you a “Desert-thirsty n*****” who “plays games hung-over” can’t be anyone’s idea of a good start to the day. J.R.’s performance wasn’t tide-turning by any means, but at least you couldn’t see the red eyes through the television. The stroke looked much more confident, the defense not nearly as clumsy, while the rebounding was eminently helpful, particularly during the second half. Baby steps.

Five Things We Saw

  1. A couple hours before tip-off, word leaked that George Hill had sustained a concussion on a Tyson Chandler screen (go figure) in Game 4. This was important for two reasons: 1) George Hill is quite literally the only Pacer capable of dribbling a basketball, and 2) Indiana’s backup point guard is D.J. Augustin, who used to start for the Charlotte Bobcats. The Pacers’ offense suffered accordingly, with the resulting dearth of flow essentially demanding they just pound the ball inside. Which worked in spurts, but – thanks to Woodson’s wise decision not to double on every fucking entry pass – never produced the quality looks from deep that murdered us in Indy.
  2. Do you like fouls? Good, because there were forty-fucking-eight of them in this game – 30 from the Bockers alone. But even when George and Hibbert each got nailed with a fifth early in the fourth quarter, the Knicks never really capitalized on offense, always seeming reluctant to attack. Still, just having them on the bench for those brief stretches was more than a fine consolation prize.
  3. Mike Woodson rolled out some pretty batshit lineups before he finally settled down. Kidd, Earl, Melo, STAT, and K-Mart – that was one. Prigs, Earl, Copeland, Amar’e, and K-Mart – that was another. There were others, as well: Kidd, STAT, and three Earl Barons; J.R., Prigs, Mike Woodson, Dave Hoppla, and Sting; Marvin Barnes, Sade, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Stephen Hawking, and Novak; Grover Cleveland, Melo, Ernest Hemingway, Miley Cyrus, and a box of forks; STAT, Chandler, Flipper Anderson, Michael Stipe, and the Shamwow dude with the hooker issues. Weird shit.
  4. We didn’t get mauled on the boards. 43-40 – that was it! Obviously Hibbert’s foul trouble and West’s knee tweak (that’s what it looked like anyway) played a pretty big role here, but the Knicks – particularly the back court – did a much better job of strategically crashing the glass. Not compulsively doubling probably helped, too; doing so only scrambles your rotations to where putting a body on someone becomes a confused chore. If we can negotiate a similar disparity in Game 6, that improves our odds exponentially, methinks.
  5. • Live to WELP another day, I always say. Saturday, to be exact, when I’ll actually be at the wedding of one of my wife’s high school friends. I don’t want to be there. I barely fucking know these people. But I’m also a gracious wedding gift-giver. Which is why I bought them a used $50 Magnavox television off of Craigslist.

    “You guys should really open your gift now.”

    “Awwww! That’ so sweet, but I think we’ll just wait unt…”

    “OPEN IT. NOW.”

    “Wow… It’s… That’s great! A TV! Thank you soooo much! It will look great in our guest ro…”

    “WE SHOULD PLUG IT IN NOW. TRY IT OUT.”

    “… At the reception? We haven’t even had the father-daughter dan.”

    “PLUG. IT. IN. “

76 comments on “Knicks 85, Pacers 75

  1. d-mar

    It’s kind of sad to think that if we do lose this series, Woody basically gave Indiana game 4 with his stupid lineup adjustments and his dumb doubling of Hibbert in the post. Who knows how that game would have gone if we had played it like tonight?

  2. thenoblefacehumper

    I have game 7 tickets for me and my girlfriend. I have a garden of dreams note asking her to prom (yes, I’m a senior in high school) going up. All that’s left is stealing the next one in Indy. Hill or not, we’ll likely have to play better than we did tonight to snag it. A win is a win though. Let’s go Knicks.

  3. Brian Cronin

    I have game 7 tickets for me and my girlfriend. I have a garden of dreams note asking her to prom

    I don’t get it. She’s your girlfriend but you haven’t asked her to prom yet?

  4. bocker84

    isnt this where we hear about the refs causing game 6 to go our way so Stern can make more money on a game 7? it’s all I heard when we played the Celtics… just wondering where those comments are…

  5. thenoblefacehumper

    Brian Cronin: I don’t get it. She’s your girlfriend but you haven’t asked her to prom yet?

    Yeah haha. The asking is obviously just a formality (she’ll say yes). These days in high school it’s all about an elaborate prom proposal. Don’t kill the messenger.

  6. Brian Cronin

    Yeah haha. The asking is obviously just a formality (she’ll say yes). These days in high school it’s all about an elaborate prom proposal. Don’t kill the messenger.

    Gotcha. That’s two new things I learned in today’s comments. I don’t know what I find more fascinating – that teens now have to make elaborate prom proposals to their own girlfriends or that “come up” (meaning a fortuitous event, like when you “come up” on a twenty dollar bill on the ground) has apparently entered the modern lexicon.

  7. max fisher-cohen

    Not only did Kidd not play in the second half, Stoudemire didn’t either. Woodson actually played his best players in the second half this game and played smart lineups. The 4th foul on CHandler of course gave him the shove he needed to NOT play big again, another example of god coming down and forcing Woodson to do the right thing rather than Woodson actually doing it on his own.

    Craziest stat to me of this series: ZERO 4th quarter lead changes in any of the 5 games.

    Not only that, there has only been one 2nd half lead change — when Indiana took a 1 point lead with 4:20 to go in the 3rd in NY’s game 2 win.

    The closest 4th quarter score was tonight — 71-75 New York with 6:41 left in the 4th.

    Slightly less crazy: Whichever team was leading at the half in each game ended up winning.

    This game didn’t give me much hope for a Knick turnaround. The thing that does offer a some hope is the George Hill concussion. Much of New York’s (marginally) improved offense was a result of Augustin’s inability to fight through screens and push Felton into Hibbert, along with his and the other Pacers’ inability to throw good passes into the post, resulting in many of Indiana’s 19 turnovers and many of their easier shots. George Hill fixes both of these problems. Indy’s fluky bad 57% FT shooting alone accounts for just about all the difference in the game.

  8. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, the Pacers likely win this one with a healthy Hill. Luckily for the Knicks, who the hell knows when Hill will be healthy again? Concussions are no joke. I could easily see him missing a week. If that’s the case and Hill is out for the rest of the series then I think that the Knicks will be playing the Heat next week.

  9. max fisher-cohen

    sorry there were actually 4 lead changes in game 2 across about a 2 minute period of the 3rd before NY took control of the game.

    max fisher-cohen: Not only that, there has only been one 2nd half lead change — when Indiana took a 1 point lead with 4:20 to go in the 3rd in NY’s game 2 win.

  10. er

    max fisher-cohen: TO | 28 PTS | +6

    It wadn’t pretty. It wadn’t smooth. But damnit was it timely. Melo once again had his fill of Paul George’s meat-

    they shot twice as many ft…..thats fluky there. So i dont wanna hear about them missing fts, newsflash they CANT shoot.

  11. Brian Cronin

    side note, how the hell are the kings worth 535 mil?

    That’s what you get when you completely break the player’s association. Owning an NBA team is like printing money nowadays. With the way that television works nowadays, sports are worth soooo much more than they used to be worth, so the TV deals get richer and richer and the owners split all that money (same with the internet stuff). So it is no longer a thing where the smaller markets aren’t worth as much. Every NBA team is more or less guaranteed a heavy profit. So since everyone now wants a team, the prices are skyrocketing.

  12. maxwell_3g

    3 things that were proven tonight:
    1) Woodson is a bigger idiot than we even thought. He has kept on doubling all series until tonight. he has kept cope on the bench until tonight. He kept playing Kidd until tonight. he finally adjusted and we win easily. unfortunately, he probably cost us 2 games in this series with his stupidity
    2) Reggie Miller is a completely biased announcer and should not be allowed to call these games. if I hear him say that Hibbert got all ball one more time when the replay shows hibbert getting all body….
    3) Rachel Nichols is awful on the sidelines. “How much heart did you show tonight?” WTF? they won a game they needed to win. not everything is about heart

  13. er

    maxwell_3g:
    3 things that were proven tonight:
    1)Woodson is a bigger idiot than we even thought.He has kept on doubling all series until tonight.he has kept cope on the bench until tonight.He kept playing Kidd until tonight.he finally adjusted and we win easily.unfortunately, he probably cost us 2 games in this series with his stupidity
    2)Reggie Miller is a completely biased announcer and should not be allowed to call these games.if I hear him say that Hibbert got all ball one more time when the replay shows hibbert getting all body….
    3)Rachel Nichols is awful on the sidelines.“How much heart did you show tonight?”WTF?they won a game they needed to win.not everything is about heart

    point 1 is why i say he should be fired if they get to the next round. Seriously it took 5 games to adjust?

  14. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, the play of Prigs and Cope tonight really just made Woody look ridiculous.

  15. Tony Pena

    So f’ing happy that they didn’t go out like that. Now the world where the Knicks are competent is back in order. We can all sleep good tonight.

    8th seed, 7th seed, 2nd seed that’s now in a 3-2 series in the second round- after about 10 years of hot garbage. Anything after tonight is a bonus for me.

  16. Spree8nyk8

    Honestly, I fucking hate Woodson and I’d love to see him fired. But if he doesn’t repeat the mistakes of game 1-4 again I really could see us coming back and taking this series. It really sucks that we have to be facing elimination before he can start doing the obvious thing, and against the Miami’s of this world there would be no way to overcome it. But if he sticks with the guys that won this game we can get game 6 and then it’s war.

  17. Brian Cronin

    Okay, reading some more about the concussion policy and yeah, it seems almost impossible for Hill to be back for Game 6 and incredibly unlikely that he’d be able to return for Game 7. Thank you, NBA concussion policy!

  18. kng94

    Brian Cronin:
    Okay, reading some more about the concussion policy and yeah, it seems almost impossible for Hill to be back for Game 6 and incredibly unlikely that he’d be able to return for Game 7. Thank you, NBA concussion policy!

    You literally just made my night.

    Felton was definitely key tonight. Of course he could’ve been better, but his drives to the rim, pick n rolls and kick outs looked especially nice tonight. At least from what I noticed. When he’s not involved, he tends to be just a spot-up shooter, he doesn’t really move around too much without it. I kinda wish he would incorporate some things from Prigs and bring it into his own game, like the above but I was pretty satisfied with him this game.

    Also, this entire series has made me appreciate Shump’s hustle so much more. He goes up against Hibbert and some other player to snag an offensive rebound. It does end up going out of bounds but still, it’s that heart that really makes him imo. Kid’s a true NYer.

  19. BigBlueAL

    I dont get why so many here believe the only reason the Knicks won was the FT misses by the Pacers. The Knicks outshot Indiana both overall and from the 3pt line, only got outrebounded by 3, forced 19 to’s while only turning it over 10 times.

    I mean really, Knicks called for 30 fouls and the Pacers only 18??

  20. BigBlueAL

    Also the Pacers were 19th in the NBA in FT% shooting a bit below 75% so yeah them missing FT’s isnt exactly a fluke.

  21. Brian Cronin

    The NBA concussion policy is as follows:

    As part of the policy, during the preseason every player in the NBA undergoes baseline neurological testing.

    If a player is diagnosed with a concussion, he’s no longer allowed to play until cleared in consultation with the NBA’s director of the concussion program, Dr. Jeffrey Kutcher, an associate professor of neurology at the University of Michigan.

    To gain clearance, a player must return to his symptom free neurological baseline, then complete a series of exertion tests, each growing in difficulty (from a stationary bike to jogging, to agility and individual basketball drills) remaining free of symptoms after each test.

    There is no set amount of time that must pass between each exertion exercise. Testing is situation specific, and relies on the medical judgment of the doctors and other medical personnel involved.

    The chances of Hill getting all of that done in two days is very unlikely. You know what this series is really starting to remind me of? The 1997 brawl series. The Knicks blew a 3-1 lead due in large part to an incredibly bad break going against them. That sure seems to be the same thing that is set to happen here, doesn’t it?

  22. Spree8nyk8

    I think that is optimistic at best, these are the playoffs and I could easily see a magical recovery for him. But I don’t think Hill was the reason the Knicks won. I think we went from playing our F game to playing our C+ game. I definitely think it’s a little easier if he’s out. But it’s one road game to win to get back to even and have a shot at game 7. They can do that whether he plays or not. The fouls called disparity however is ridiculous. I said during the game that all series long indy players keep throwing themselves to the ground with very minimal contact and it’s causing the refs to tighten the whistle (mainly against the Knicks) with ticky tack fouls. I mean there had to be at least 3-4 calls were even the replay was kinda “wtf”. In particular one offensive foul called on melo for I guess pushing off although it certainly seemed like very normal contact and a foul on tyson chandler that initially seemed like it was going the other way that I must have watched 6 times and I still don’t know why there was a foul called.

    The Knicks played much better in this game and if they can build on that any I would think they have a very good chance of winning game 6. Also I can definitely see the Pacers getting a little tight in game 6. They have to feel like that is the game they MUST close out. Any game 7 has to favor NY you would think right? I mean they would certainly have momentum and home court if they can win this one game.

  23. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin:
    The NBA concussion policy is as follows:

    The chances of Hill getting all of that done in two days is very unlikely. You know what this series is really starting to remind me of? The 1997 brawl series. The Knicks blew a 3-1 lead due in large part to an incredibly bad break going against them. That sure seems to be the same thing that is set to happen here, doesn’t it?

    It would only compare if George, Hibbert, West and Stephenson would each miss either Game 6 or 7 as well.

    Those stupid suspensions deprived us of what mightve been the greatest playoff series ever. Knicks-Bulls conference finals in 1997 wouldve been beyond epic. I will always believe that was the Knicks team that wouldve finally defeated MJ, I will believe that until the day I die lol.

  24. Brian Cronin

    these are the playoffs and I could easily see a magical recovery for him.

    That’s the thing about the concussion policy, though. It’s specifically designed to prevent “magical recoveries,” since everyone knows that if you give a player the option of playing, he’s going to play. Does anyone think George Hill wouldn’t have played tonight if the league didn’t specifically say he couldn’t? Of course he would. Just like of course he would play on Game 6. But the league has decided that they are not going to let players put their future mental health at risk to play.

    But I don’t think Hill was the reason the Knicks won. I think we went from playing our F game to playing our C+ game. I definitely think it’s a little easier if he’s out. But it’s one road game to win to get back to even and have a shot at game 7. They can do that whether he plays or not.

    I dunno, while the Knicks obviously improved this game, I don’t think they would have pulled it off if Hill was out there. It was not like they blew the Pacers out, ya know?

  25. Brian Cronin

    Those stupid suspensions deprived us of what mightve been the greatest playoff series ever. Knicks-Bulls conference finals in 1997 wouldve been beyond epic. I will always believe that was the Knicks team that wouldve finally defeated MJ, I will believe that until the day I die lol.

    I think the Bulls would have won, but yeah, that would have been an epic series.

  26. Tony Pena

    How about if it’s not just putting in Cope and Prigs, but giving the whole team burn is how this team can maximize its talent? There’s a thought for you Knickerbloggers.

  27. ruruland

    max fisher-cohen:
    Not only did Kidd not play in the second half, Stoudemire didn’t either. Woodson actually played his best players in the second half this game and played smart lineups. The 4th foul on CHandler of course gave him the shove he needed to NOT play big again, another example of god coming down and forcing Woodson to do the right thing rather than Woodson actually doing it on his own.

    Craziest stat to me of this series: ZERO 4th quarter lead changes in any of the 5 games.

    Not only that, there has only been one 2nd half lead change — when Indiana took a 1 point lead with 4:20 to go in the 3rd in NY’s game 2 win.

    The closest 4th quarter score was tonight — 71-75 New York with 6:41 left in the 4th.

    Slightly less crazy: Whichever team was leading at the half in each game ended up winning.

    This game didn’t give me much hope for a Knick turnaround. The thing that does offer a some hope is the George Hill concussion. Much of New York’s (marginally) improved offense was a result of Augustin’s inability to fight through screens and push Felton into Hibbert, along with his and the other Pacers’ inability to throw good passes into the post, resulting in many of Indiana’s 19 turnovers and many of their easier shots. George Hill fixes both of these problems. Indy’s fluky bad 57% FT shooting alone accounts for just about all the difference in the game.

    Yep, and the well below avg shooting on open jumpers this whole series is a non-topic.

    This is the Dubin school of thinking.

  28. ruruland

    Tony, agreed. Pacers have had significant whistle advantage in series, but Knicks capable of hitting you in waves. If George has to expend energy and use a foul or two guarding Cope..ohhhh.. . Same with Amare.

    Maximum effort Kidd and Amare can be impact in 10-15 minutes even if not statistically productive, though both are capable of that as well. If you actually sat downand looked at the talent level of this teams and used as frame of reference for performance, youd realize that even with the Pacers excellent defensive Synergies, Knicks have still greatly underperformed relative to circumstance and situation compared to Indy.

    Each game this series is extended improves likelihood of Knicks regressing to mean (relative to situational performance dictated by Pacers defense).

    Knicks can win next two games. They can beat Indy in Indy.

    Believing works. Believe.

  29. ephus

    Brian Cronin: That’s what you get when you completely break the player’s association. Owning an NBA team is like printing money nowadays. With the way that television works nowadays, sports are worth soooo much more than they used to be worth, so the TV deals get richer and richer and the owners split all that money (same with the internet stuff). So it is no longer a thing where the smaller markets aren’t worth as much. Every NBA team is more or less guaranteed a heavy profit. So since everyone now wants a team, the prices are skyrocketing.

    +1. With sports rights going through the roof (because sports are perceived to be the one DVR-proof program), the NBA is positioned to make a fortune when the national TV package expires after 2016.

  30. ephus

    Tony Pena:
    So f’ing happy that they didn’t go out like that. Now the world where the Knicks are competent is back in order. We can all sleep good tonight.

    8th seed, 7th seed, 2nd seed that’s now in a 3-2 series in the second round- after about 10 years of hot garbage. Anything after tonight is a bonus for me.

    That is why this year is already a “par” for me. But, I really would love for the Knicks to make a one put birdie after shanking the drive in this round.

    I’m going to keep torturing this analogy until the Knicks are eliminated (or win it all!).

  31. BigBlueAL

    ephus: That is why this year is already a “par” for me.But, I really would love for the Knicks to make a one put birdie after shanking the drive in this round.

    I’m going to keep torturing this analogy until the Knicks are eliminated (or win it all!).

    Hopefully the Pacers on Saturday resemble Sergio Garcia last Sunday.

  32. ephus

    ruruland: Believing works. Believe.

    +1.

    I would rather be derided as too much a pollyanna for my optimism, then live my life expecting defeat. I am certain that I have enjoyed this year more than the prior twelve. If the Knicks lose, I will say “oh well” (probably in stronger terms) and be thankful for an entertaining year that allowed me to bond with my daughter and my friends over the Knicks.

    For all the pessimists out there, how does your pessimism serve you? Serious question. Lots of smart posters out there. Please share why it is better for you to steel yourself for eventual defeat and miss the joy of extending the season.

  33. Tony Pena

    And Kenyon and of course Shump for D. I guess we’ll see if it’s too late Woody figured it out. Or stumbled on it, god forced it, whatever.

  34. ephus

    On Woodson, let’s withhold judgment until the last game is played. Making a premature assessment of a season is how we ended up with extra years of Isiah. Knicks won a bunch of games to make a “run” for the last playoff spot, and Dolan leaped to extend him. Knicks then crashed and burned.

  35. Tony Pena

    The fan base has a right to have a fatalist outlook on the team obviously, but really the Knicks have bought themselves some benefit of doubt.

  36. ephus

    Tony Pena. I agree that the fan base has the “right to have a fatalist outlook.” That right is a big part of being a true fan. The fans have been better to the Knicks than the Knicks have been to the fans for the last forty years.

    My question for the “fatalists” is: why choice to be a fatalist at this moment? For me, it is better at this moment to let my heart soar to the heights, knowing that there is a chance that the team is about to dash my hopes upon the rocks. Why does it serve a “fatalist” to stay rooted to the ground, right now?

  37. daJudge

    The well-known ephus wager.

    ephus:
    Tony Pena.I agree that the fan base has the “right to have a fatalist outlook.”That right is a big part of being a true fan.The fans have been better to the Knicks than the Knicks have been to the fans for the last forty years.

    My question for the “fatalists” is: why choice to be a fatalist at this moment?For me, it is better at this moment to let my heart soar to the heights, knowing that there is a chance that the team is about to dash my hopes upon the rocks.Why does it serve a “fatalist” to stay rooted to the ground, right now?

  38. jon abbey

    ephus: +1.

    For all the pessimists out there, how does your pessimism serve you?Serious question.Lots of smart posters out there.Please share why it is better for you to steel yourself for eventual defeat and miss the joy of extending the season.

    what makes you think we miss that joy in any way? I am pretty sure that ruru wasn’t any happier that NY won that game than I was, but if we had lost, I would have been less crushed than if I had gone in expecting them to almost certainly win.

    it’s a defense mechanism, and I disagree that it impacts the team in any way if I’m not in the building (and if I was, I’d be as loud as anyone there if not louder, I usually come home from the rare games I attend with my voice gone).

    as for ruru’s ‘Believing works. Believe” horseshit, tell that to the Golden State fans last night. that stuff is great in the locker room (I guess), but pointless on message boards IMO.

    I’ll keep my fingers crossed that Hill misses game 6, but I won’t be optimistic either way.

  39. ephus

    First, it was a question. Your answers are about what works for you, not pleasing me.

    Second, I do not think that fan attitudes outside of the building make a difference. There is some decent research that loud fans help to influence calls and create the home court advantage. Absolutely believe that Jon Abbey and the other “realists” would be as loud as anyone. If you have been posting here for years, the odds are really good that you are a true Knick fan.

    Third, I do not think that the “realists” enjoyed the victory less than I did. But I do think that the “realists” are enjoying today and tomorrow’s pre-game less than I am. I am walking around today envisioning the Knicks going to South Beach on Wednesday and SMILING. If you are not smiling about the Knicks today, I do believe your are taking less joy from them than I am.

    Fourth, I probably will be more crushed if (when?) the Knicks are eliminated than the people who have not raised their hopes and expectations. But, for me, it is worth the price.

  40. mcliff05

    Did anyone hear Reggie after Cope hit his 2nd or 3rd trey? “Where has Chris Copeland been this series”. I think I laugh-cried and then punched a hole in the wall.

  41. d-mar

    I get that George Hill is a big upgrade over DJ Augustin, but the Pacers were horrible at protecting the ball in games 1-4 when he played, averaging 17 turnovers for those 4 games (they had 19 last night)

    I’d be thrilled if he didn’t play in game 6, one less starter for your opponent is always a good thing, but let’s not make Hill out to be Chris Paul or something, he’s an above average PG at best.

  42. ruruland

    jon abbey: what makes you think we miss that joy in any way? I am pretty sure that ruru wasn’t any happier that NY won that game than I was, but if we had lost, I would have been less crushed than if I had gone in expecting them to almost certainly win.

    it’s a defense mechanism, and I disagree that it impacts the team in any way if I’m not in the building (and if I was, I’d be as loud as anyone there if not louder, I usually come home from the rare games I attend with my voice gone).

    as for ruru’s ‘Believing works. Believe” horseshit, tell that to the Golden State fans last night. that stuff is great in the locker room (I guess), but pointless on message boards IMO.

    I’ll keep my fingers crossed that Hill misses game 6, but I won’t be optimistic either way.

    There’s evidence for a collective consciousness.
    Can’t hurt.

  43. marechal

    ruruland: There’s evidence for a collective consciousness.

    Did you hear about this “evidence” in a Vangelis concert?

  44. thenamestsam

    Don’t really care for the discussion of who’s the best fan. To me if you spend hours out of your day reading and posting on a Knicks message board, you’re a good enough Knicks fan for me. What makes being a fan special to me more than anything else is sharing it with other people, the collective energy that builds in a city around a team. The more people who want to be in the club, the merrier.

    As for the game, I think it’s right to say we basically went from playing our F game to our C/C- game. At home, with no George Hill for them, C- may have been enough. It looks like no George Hill may be the status quo going forward, but we’re still going to have to play better in Game 6. Sounds like they didn’t know Hill wasn’t going to play until the afternoon of the game. With a day of practice they’re going to be better prepared to play without him, and you better believe they’re going to be desperate in game 6 in front of their home crowd. Not to mention how much better we’re going to have to play when (that’s when, not if) we take on Miami. But 3-2 sounds a lot better than 3-1. That’s the main thing for now.

  45. Owen

    Still processing the fact that George Hill might be out the rest of the series. George Hill was, by one measure anyway, their best player this year. Given how good Hibbert and George are defensively I don’t know if I completely buy it. But they clearly miss him hugely on both ends. That’s a game changer.

    If I were a Pacers fan I would be screaming bloody murder about a new league policy that might put the Knicks in the conference finals. But as a Knicks fan….

  46. Owen

    Although it looks like the policy has been in place for a little while.

    It’s a big break. They have got to go get this game….

  47. Nick C.

    For once the injury gods cut the Knicks a break. Like someone said Hill is to the Pacers what Felton is to the Knicks. Also it seemed like Augustin was effective as a short spurt energy guy. As far as TOs it seemed like Indy was throwing the ball all over the place and committing unforced TOs all series.

    As far as the Knicks, I am glad that Woodson was able to make the changers that had been screamed about all series. Copeland played about as well as we could hope to expect. Pretty ironic that all playoffs it has been the defense that has carried them (or maybe not for the people who will say Indy and Boston’s offenses suck).

  48. Hubert

    ephus: +1.

    For all the pessimists out there, how does your pessimism serve you?Serious question.Lots of smart posters out there.Please share why it is better for you to steel yourself for eventual defeat and miss the joy of extending the season.

    I think there is a difference between being a pessimist and feeling pessimistic.

    Much of what’s been written the last few weeks that’s pessimistic is has been the logical reaction to what we’ve seen.

    I was watching two games simultaneously last night: Knicks and Rangers. I was optimistic about one and pessimistic about the other (naturally I was wrong about both). It’s not that I’m pessimistic, it’s that I process the evidence I see and it impacts my outlook. Maybe I focus on the negative evidence more. But how much positive evidence has there been since game 3 in Boston?

    So to answer your question, I would say it’s not serving me it all, it’s being thrust upon me like an effective 5 man lineup gets thrust upon our Coach.

  49. Hubert

    Also, at the start of the playoffs I thought we were going to beat Boston in 5, the Pacers in 5, the Heat in 7, and whoever came out of the West in 6. So it’s not like I went into this thing a Debbie Downer. I’ve been beat down by reality.

  50. flossy

    Some of us would rather be pleasantly surprised by success than unduly disappointed by defeat. Doesn’t mean we don’t want our team to win or take pleasure when they do.

  51. flossy

    ruruland: There’s evidence for a collective consciousness.
    Can’t hurt.

    I’d love to see this evidence. Give me a fucking break.

  52. DRed

    anyone know how Hill performed post concussion? I wiped that game from my memory already.

  53. iserp

    Hubert:
    Also, at the start of the playoffs I thought we were going to beat Boston in 5, the Pacers in 5, the Heat in 7, and whoever came out of the West in 6.So it’s not like I went into this thing a Debbie Downer.I’ve been beat down by reality.

    Don’t worry, it is just happening the other way round. We won Boston in 6, we will win the Pacer in 7, and then the Heat in 5 and whoever comes out of the wes in 5.

    ;-)

  54. kram

    i am waiting for charles barkley, fresh off of the “pacers will win because they don’t rely on one person” to say the knicks won because pacers didn’t have george hill… :)

  55. MeloDrama

    max fisher-cohen:
    Not only did Kidd not play in the second half, Stoudemire didn’t either. Woodson actually played his best players in the second half this game and played smart lineups. The 4th foul on CHandler of course gave him the shove he needed to NOT play big again, another example of god coming down and forcing Woodson to do the right thing rather than Woodson actually doing it on his own.

    Craziest stat to me of this series: ZERO 4th quarter lead changes in any of the 5 games.

    Not only that, there has only been one 2nd half lead change — when Indiana took a 1 point lead with 4:20 to go in the 3rd in NY’s game 2 win.

    The closest 4th quarter score was tonight — 71-75 New York with 6:41 left in the 4th.

    Slightly less crazy: Whichever team was leading at the half in each game ended up winning.

    This game didn’t give me much hope for a Knick turnaround. The thing that does offer a some hope is the George Hill concussion. Much of New York’s (marginally) improved offense was a result of Augustin’s inability to fight through screens and push Felton into Hibbert, along with his and the other Pacers’ inability to throw good passes into the post, resulting in many of Indiana’s 19 turnovers and many of their easier shots. George Hill fixes both of these problems. Indy’s fluky bad 57% FT shooting alone accounts for just about all the difference in the game.

    They’re a lot better with Hill at both ends. However getting him back doesn’t fix their turnover problem, the Pacers have booted the ball around all series. They also doubled us up in FTA’s which may or may not be sustainable next time, but gives me pause in assuming if they make FTs next time they’ll win.

  56. Eternal OptiKnist

    whoever has won the the ‘# of shot attempts’ battle has won the game. in 3 of the 5 games so far (games 2, 3 and 4), the # of shot attempts has been TOTALLY in favor of the game winner. In games 1 and 5 it was much closer and those games were decided by shooting percentage. To win game 6 we need to limit our TOs and force theirs to offset their OREBs. If we can do that, we have a shot. I think all we need to do is shoot like..43%. If we dont do our thing with TOs, it’ll require shooting between 45 – 50% which i dont think we can do in Indy (unless you subscribe to the thought that we’re “due” for a hot shooting game.

  57. ephus

    Hubert: So to answer your question, I would say it’s not serving me it all, it’s being thrust upon me like an effective 5 man lineup gets thrust upon our Coach.

    Well, that is a full and complete answer. I am laughing out loud at your final line.

    I hope everyone can authentically feel hope for the next forty hours. The Knicks may win and they may lose, but I think the ride is more fun when you come into the game expecting good things.

    Plus, Woodson seems to have figured out that Prigs > Kidd, at least at this time.

    Finally, I think you can draw a straight line from (1) Felton’s hand injury that forced him out for six weeks, through (2) Kidd playing 25+ minutes/game for much of the winter, to (3) Kidd hitting the wall like an undernourished marathoner and being useless for the end of the regular season and playoffs.

  58. ephus

    Let me be really clear.

    I think that everyone who posts here is a true Knick fan.

    I do not think that my way is the only way to be a Knick fan.

    I think it is more fun to have hope coming into the game, but I understand that some people are more comfortable guarding against disappointment.

    I think we have to go to another board if we want to have a meaningful conversation about the collective unconscious.

    I can’t wait for Saturday night. I’m running the Brooklyn Half tomorrow, so I should be really sore and tired for the game. No beer for me, cause I would be out like a light.

  59. ruruland

    flossy: I’d love to see this evidence.Give me a fucking break.

    Even my most innocuous tweets are met with hostility these days.

    Watch the documentary Through the Worm Hole. Real experiments. 86 % of people detected stares from behind. People can predict erotically the placement of erotically charged imagrs at rates that would perform better than Strato predictive models when it comes psychically.

    Collective prayer/thought to end droughts have coincided with extremely irregular weather patterns.

    More. I don’t know if it’s real or not, but perhaps you missed the part where I said it couldn’t hurt, you fucking jackball.

  60. Hubert

    ephus:
    I hope everyone can authentically feel hope for the next forty hours.

    I always feel hope. That’s what fucking kills me.

  61. Hubert

    ephus:

    I can’t wait for Saturday night.I’m running the Brooklyn Half tomorrow, so I should be really sore and tired for the game.No beer for me, cause I would be out like a light.

    I’ll be there cheering on my girlfriend. Good luck.

  62. Eternal OptiKnist

    DRed: Well this thread has gone off the rails in a hurry.

    lol, yea, trrble. it did produce my new favorite insult, though..”you fucking jackball”

  63. Hubert

    ruruland:
    Collective prayer/thoughtto end droughts have coincided with extremely irregular weather patterns.

    More often they coincide with continued droughts.

  64. DRed

    “I’m really over with the martyr complex. It’s fucking pathetic.”

    “Even my most innocuous tweets are met with hostility these days.”

  65. maxwell_3g

    can we stop arguing about who is a true knick fan and whether the collective consiousness matter and get back to important topics that we all agree on? like WHAT A JACKOFF MIKE WOODSON IS for getting us into this situation

  66. flossy

    ruruland:
    Wow, that was not even cogent. Done posting from phone.

    I’ll say. Everyone, did you know we can pray away JR’s shooting slum?! Let’s do it!!

  67. flossy

    ruruland: Even my most innocuous tweets are met with hostility these days.

    And nobody would get their back up if a Carmelo Anthony carpetbagger (which, let’s be honest, you are) weren’t up in here telling lifelong followers of the Knicks for inadequate fandom. Fuck outta here with that.

  68. ephus

    flossy: flossy
    May 17, 2013 at 3:09 pm
    ruruland:
    Wow, that was not even cogent. Done posting from phone.

    I’ll say. Everyone, did you know we can pray away JR’s shooting slum?! Let’s do it!!

    Flossy, if you did “shooting slum” on purpose, that is one of the great posts of all time. If it was a true typo, maybe a whole bunch of people were praying for it.

  69. bobneptune

    ephus: +1.

    For all the pessimists out there, how does your pessimism serve you?Serious question.Lots of smart posters out there.Please share why it is better for you to steel yourself for eventual defeat and miss the joy of extending the season.

    Ephus,

    I can only speak for myself, but I consider myself a very optimistic person. I also consider my self pretty objective. I would like nothing more than for the laundry of the Knicks to win the championship. However, they are an unappealing group who play an uninteresting selfish brand of basketball. I find this iteration of the Knicks extremely hard to root for.

    Their primary player is a great offensive talent but doesn’t make a single player on the team one iota better. He also has a 65 game record in the playoffs laced with a severe case of suck fever. .105 ws/48 for his career in the playoffs. .109 ws/48 this playoff.

    At least he’s consistent!

    The team is ill constructed. Quick…. who is the second and third best players on this team?

    Wasn’t it pathetic 2 nights ago many on this board were praying for the 11th and 12 men (copeland and prigs) on the roster to get more burn to save the season.

    And now, Brian is practically begging for Hill not to recover from a concussion, so the Knicks might have a decent chance. I don’t ever remember ever wishing Gus Johnson or Wes Unseld to be unavailable so the Knicks could sneak by the Bullets.

    The competition is the thing. I still root for the laundry, but I find this iteration of the Knicks, antithetical to the history of the successful Knick teams of either the 70′s or the Ewing era.

  70. er

    They are an unappealing group who play an uninteresting selfish brand of basketball. I find this iteration of the Knicks extremely hard to root for.

    This made me lol. Like you said everyone is entitled to an opinion. You bring up the 70s knicks, how many teams are like them by the way? The 90s Knicks were brutish and way more uninteresting than this team IMO

Comments are closed.