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Friday, November 24, 2017

Knicks 84 Thunder 105 – Some Thoughts

Well it’s hard to believe the Knicks were competitive in this game, but for a half they were right in it. Ironically as a team, they didn’t start off that well. Kanter seemed to forget that “pivot foot” is a thing in basketball. NBA Superstar Michael Beasley sprained his ankle 36 seconds into his initial court appearance, right before he could drop 40 points on Oklahoma. Ntilikina threw up at least two airballs by my alcohol soaked account. If he clangs one off the rim in game 2, it’ll be an improvement. On one possession the Knicks missed like 3 dunks/layups.

However there was a bright spot in the first half. Kristaps entered Godzingis mode. He had 19 first half points on 12 shots with 8 boards. KP blocked an early Carmelo Anthony layup, which if the game was in MSG would have set the crowd on fire. And there was that one crafty possession where he dribbled and spun and ended up with a layup, which the TNT crew replayed 4 or 5 times.

Pretty Unicorn

Pretty Unicorn

Oh and speaking of Melo, he looked rusty on offense. He missed a ton of first half shots, and even wasted the clock on one possession leading to a 24 second violation. Although he seemed a little active on defense, maybe that’s what playing for a reach coach/team does to him?

I blinked to start the third quarter, and the Knicks were down like a dozen points. Then it was 20. The turbo button on Zinger was broken, as he turned mortal after the break. Looking back it was clear that he was a one man show. He had some nice feeds for Kanter, and the two actually played well together. But the Knicks were missing that second guy. (Paging Tim Hardaway Jr. Paging Tim Hardaway Jr.)

More Thoughts:
* What’s up with Ron Baker hitting 3 of 7 free throws? He was an 80% shooter in 4 years of college, but was only 65% last year. Isn’t this supposed to be the year he becomes an NBA player by improving his shooting efficiency?

* By the end, 4 of the starting 5 had horrible +/-:

Kristaps Porzingis -17
Enes Kanter -22
Courtney Lee -22
Ramon Sessions -23

* Tim Hardaway Jr. only managed 8 points on 10 shots.

* Hernangomez and Dotson only saw garbage time, which needs to change. This team is about youth, not winning.

EDIT: Found the block!

Na-ah!

Na-ah!

152 comments on “Knicks 84 Thunder 105 – Some Thoughts

  1. Bruno Almeida

    Hernangomez needs to play more, Ntilikina will take a while to adjust, Lance is not a NBA player, Sessions is bad and Porzingis was good.
    Baker alternated moments of being really active and ok and looking like a complete scrub that should be playing in China, THJ looked bad and nervous and Kanter was basically our worst fears about him.

    First game of the season, against a clearly superior team on the road. Not much to be happy about but also not much to freak out about (except Hornacek ignoring Willy which should not happen at all).

  2. chrisk06811

    was I the only one who noticed…Beasley hit the shot, came up hobbling, didn’t make it down the court on D. the ball came back on O, he was in the same spot in the corner, and he called for the ball!!

  3. Mike Kurylo Post author

    I thought he was trying to tell the team to call a timeout. But they just played without him. I guess they’re used to tuning out what he says? ¯\_(?)_/¯

  4. chrisk06811

    I’m just looking at the minutes.
    -I’m hoping Frank gets Baker’s minutes, although that gets him to 32; which might be too much.
    -There’s no reason for McDermott and lance to combine for 40 mins. that’s 20 too much. where do those 20 go? a few to Dotson? let baker play some 2? THJ plays more than 29?
    we’re going to play Kanter, 22 mins is about right. KOQ needs 15 mins. but that only leaves like 10 for willie. something else needs to give there.

  5. swiftandabundant

    Thoughts…

    well, this is what a rebuild looks like. Do you have the stomach for it?

    As far as Horns not playing Willie or Frank or Dotson and giving minutes to Lee, Lance, KQ and Kanter….I do think some of that might be because its the first game and I hate to say it people but even on a rebuilding team its a veteran’s league. We can scream about Horns being an idiot all we want but 9 out of 10 coaches (or more like 99 out of a 100) are gonna give the veteran’s first nod over the younger players especially early in the season. And there might be some orders from above to “showcase” these players. But fear not. I imagine Lee and KQ at the least will be gone by mid season. The minutes will come to the younger players as the season goes on. I feel for Willie though. Frank…I think it probably had more to do with him missing real playing time for most of training camp. His minutes will increase. Dotson probably won’t play much until Lee is gone. And Willie will play once KQ is gone although then he’ll have to contend with Noah for minutes too.

    My biggest beef though with Horns is OK, you play the vets because you’re a scared coach. I get that. But we were down by 20 with 10 minutes left in the 4th. And he waited till like 2 minutes left to put in the players for garbage time. That’s reckless to keep KP in like that. Put in the young players around 6 or 7 minutes left. The game is over. 2 minutes is not enough garbage time for them to even get into the flow and run some plays. That’s annoying as fuck. If you’re down 10 I get it. But down 20 with 7 minutes left put in the young players!

  6. ess-dog

    Since it will take too long to list the negatives, I’d just like to say that the energy on defense for most of the first half was excellent!

  7. ess-dog

    Well, we just signed an undrafted power forward with our 2-way contract, despite the glaring hole at point guard. Nice, Knicks.

  8. d-mar

    If Porzingis had gotten injured with 3 minutes left in the game down 20, that would almost be grounds for firing Hornacek.

  9. Count de Pennies

    Well, we just signed an undrafted power forward with our 2-way contract, despite the glaring hole at point guard. Nice, Knicks.

    Because you can never have enough Isaiahs…

  10. stratomatic says you can't play defense if you keep getting players than can't defend

    1. This team is an unbalanced mess. Some trades need to be made to clear out the log jam among bigs which will only get worse once Noah is back). KOQ is a very likable guy and a decent player, but he’s probably the only one that can be moved.

    2. KP looked good, but he still has to clean up his shot selection and learn to play when the hard double team comes. He forced some bad shots and panicked when the double team came. If he can improve that, his efficiency will improve.

    3. I think Hardaway will do a little better next game when he’s not facing high level defensive wings.

    4. I’m rooting for Kanter, but it feels like he’s blocking the development of Hernangomez. I don’t see Kanter as our long term solution at C. So I’d rather find out as quickly as possible if Willy is the answer or just a very good backup. To find out, he has to play. Hornacek probably prefers Kanter because he’s the bigger offensive threat, drags players away from KP, and they need another scorer out there. But having Willy buried on the bench is just WRONG.

    5. Nitti looked lost, but too soon to know anything.

    6. Baker is active and has enough impact to warrant minutes, but he’s neither a legit PG or SG. He’d be better in the triangle. Hit a damn free throw will ya! We aren’t asking for any more than you already proved you were capable of in college.

    7. The TOs are torturous.

  11. Bruno Almeida

    “My biggest beef though with Horns is OK, you play the vets because you’re a scared coach. I get that. But we were down by 20 with 10 minutes left in the 4th. And he waited till like 2 minutes left to put in the players for garbage time. That’s reckless to keep KP in like that. Put in the young players around 6 or 7 minutes left. The game is over. 2 minutes is not enough garbage time for them to even get into the flow and run some plays. That’s annoying as fuck. If you’re down 10 I get it. But down 20 with 7 minutes left put in the young players!”

    Exactly. The game was about as over as it gets as soon as the 3rd quarter started, there’s no reason to keep playing KP, Lance etc. If you give 3 garbage time minutes to dudes like Dotson or Willy how are we ever supposed to know what he can provide?

  12. stratomatic says you can't play defense if you keep getting players than can't defend

    If Porzingis had gotten injured with 3 minutes left in the game down 20, that would almost be grounds for firing Hornacek.

    I had the same exact thought while watching the game.

  13. stratomatic says you can't play defense if you keep getting players than can't defend

    I thought he was trying to tell the team to call a timeout. But they just played without him. I guess they’re used to tuning out what he says? ¯\_(?)_/¯

    I was screaming at the TV during that.

    It wasn’t like he was hurting a little and trying to run it off. He could barely stand and walk and they kept playing without calling a time out. It was so idiotic I couldn’t believe it.

  14. DRed

    It wasn’t like he was hurting a little and trying to run it off. He could barely stand and walk and they kept playing without calling a time out. It was so idiotic I couldn’t believe it.

    They even scored on that play it was bizarre all around

  15. ptmilo

    tbf I wouldn’t be shocked to find out that beasley suddenly breaking into a bunny hop making strange faces is a regular thing

  16. Z-man

    Don’t worry guys, Frank is only “2 years away from being 2 years away!” Nice to see how “playing against grown men in a professional league which is far more competitive than the NCAA” has eased his transition. Poor Dennis Smith Jr., if only he had played in Europe Dallas would have picked up on all the holes in his game.

    PS Frank led all players in WS48…he had the highest wingspan differential per 48 minutes played.

  17. d-mar

    BTW, if anyone thought we were going to see a “new” Carmelo Anthony on OKC, his stat line looked totally familiar: 22 points on 20 shots, 1 rebound, 1 assist.

  18. Will the Thrill

    Z-Man, its funny how you go after Frank and praise Baker when they had the same type of game. Both seemed to defend well, both struggled with their shot, and both struggled with turnovers (didn’t look like PGs). The difference is, we saw this from Baker last year, and this was Frank’s first 8 minutes in the NBA as a 19 year old.

    I’m not saying Baker won’t turn into a serviceable player, but his contract is awful and he didn’t play well (sadly maybe better than our other PGs)

    I’m not saying that Frank was a better pick than DSJ (I wouldn’t have picked him), but he definitely deserves more leeway than Baker at this point.

  19. Frank

    DSJ clearly is going to be better this year than Frank. He has more opportunity, and is already a fully grown person. You look at Frank and he looks like a puppy with gangly arms and legs. I don’t think we’ll really know until their 3rd seasons who is going to have the better career.

    I actually thought for the 5 seconds he was in the game, his defense was quite good.

  20. cgreene

    Yeah. Please kill the every day Frank vs DSJ thing. It’s old already. Frank played 10 minutes of preseason. He’s 19. He was up against Westbrook and George. It’s enough.

  21. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    Ron Baker sucks and Dennis Smith Jr wasn’t drafted by the Knicks. Let’s all move on.

  22. stratomatic says you can't play defense if you keep getting players than can't defend

    If we are going to judge Nitti off a few minutes, then Ball definitely sucks and is a huge bust based on his first game. #justsayin

  23. Count de Pennies

    Obviously, it’s too early to draw any conclusions re: Ball (although he did grab nine boards last night) But if I was a Lakers fan, I’d now be officially worried about lat year’s second overall pick. Brandon Ingram looks like trash.

  24. swiftandabundant

    Jesus enough with the DSJ vs. Frank shit. At least wait until halfway through the season to compare them. Frank was out a lot of preseason. I’m pretty sure that is why he only played 8 minute last night.

    Remember Brandon Jennings? He scored like 50 something points in his 4th NBA game or something like that. People thought he was going to be the next Kobe. Then he didn’t get any better and remained the same and people figured him out and now he’s a back up PG at best.

    Remember Tyreke Evans? Rookie of the year! What a great find by The Kings. except he didn’t get any better and sucks at defense and always gets injured.

    Remember Derrick Rose? Rookie of the year! A former MVP!

    The point is…you are really dumb if you’re gonna do this after one NBA game. Didn’t Dallas LOSE to the Hawks and didn’t DSJ get lit up on defense by Schroeder in that game?

  25. english_knick

    Honestly, how about we have a moratorium on judging any player, Knick or otherwise, who is in their rookie season until at least Thanksgiving and preferably Christmas? Maybe we’ll say thanksgiving for non-PGs and Christmas for PGs given that it’s a truth almost universally acknowledged that PGs take more time to develop? (Really, we should say Christmas 2018, but I get that people need to have their fun).

    One of Smith Jr or Frank will be playing almost every night. I love this blog but I can’t endure this debate every day from the very start of the season.

    Especially not on a blog the general tone of which is anti the ‘can’t rebuild in NY’ mantra (i.e. is patient) and is pro analytics (i.e. recognises the problems of a small sample size)

    Rant over. No offence meant to any individual.

  26. ClashFan

    The “we should have drafted DSJ” stuff is unlikely to stop, but I hope. I still remember the Jets taking Ken O’Brien over Dan Marino, lo these many years ago, and some people still can’t get over that, despite the fact that the whole friggin league passed on Marino, not just the Jets.

    Two huge gripes about last night’s game: Willy only getting 3 garbage time minutes, and KP getting 38 minutes, several of which were late when the game is over. Those are both giant WTFs that don’t give me any hope about Hornacek.

    I understand that the Knicks will, and should, give minutes to guys who they are hoping to trade (LT, Lee, OQ, and maybe Kanter and McD), but Willy cannot sit, LT should not be the first guy off the bench, etc. I think LT got 12 minutes in the first half, which is too much, but only 3 in the second. Kanter ended up with 22, I think, which is okay. So, overall, Kanter and LT’s minutes were not that egregious, I guess. Dotson will get his chances later on.

    Are there any rumors that maybe Willy is not a hard worker or something? Hornacek keeps making these comments about the C rotation minutes being based on merit, so it that just BS he’s spewing or does Willy need to work harder? We heard that same about OQ a couple of years ago. I guess he can’t come out and say, “Enes and Kyle are going to get most of the minutes because we are showcasing them for trades.”

    Yeah, I noted that Ron was like +4 last night in over 20 minutes, but he also had some bad turnovers and seemed to really struggle when Felton pressured him. He’s really more of a combo guard, not a guy you want at the point for that many minutes, but what else do they have, right now?

    At the end of the day, we should have all expected a 20 point loss. Opening on the road, vs. an elite team with very good defense, lots of new players, etc. Even good teams can take 10-12 games to get rotations sorted out, etc. But, KP cannot be in garbage time and log 38 minutes.

  27. chrisk06811

    I hate to see KOQ go, but he’s the most logical trade chip. I think with the little bit of extra girth to his beard this year, a trade to the Astros is in order.

  28. nicos

    DSJ clearly is going to be better this year than Frank. He has more opportunity, and is already a fully grown person. You look at Frank and he looks like a puppy with gangly arms and legs. I don’t think we’ll really know until their 3rd seasons who is going to have the better career.

    I actually thought for the 5 seconds he was in the game, his defense was quite good.

    How on earth does Frank have less opportunity than DSJ? If ever there was a position open to a good young player it’s point guard for the 17/18 Knicks- there’s literally no competition. If DSJ were here he’d have started and played 30+ minutes.
    And Frank’s two fouls in 8 minutes doesn’t bode particularly well for a guy who was very foul prone in France last year. Still, I’d be surprised if he doesn’t turn out to be a very good defender. At the same time I’ll be equally surprised if he turns out to be a plus playmaker.

  29. ClashFan

    @31
    I think the new GM has shown that he’ll be somewhat patient with trades, but Noah coming back in 11 games is really going to push things.

    I just can’t imagine that there isn’t a team or two out there that would like to add OQ. He’s inexpensive and is a very solid backup.

  30. Bruno Almeida

    It’s Z-Man, it became probably some sort of badge of honor to prove he was right one time in his predictions!

    Everybody knew Ntilikina or Smith is a discussion for 5, 6 years. And yet he’s gonna get labeled a bust after 5 minutes in a game. It’s going to happen every game. Smith was good statistically against the least talented team in the league and his team still managed to lose, while he got tore to shreds by Dennis Schroder, who btw is trash.

    And Ron Baker is still not a NBA player and did exactly the same this game as he did last season. Can’t shoot, can’t conduct an offense, can bother people by sheer “scrappiness”.

  31. swiftandabundant

    I mean I think Hornaceck’s comments are classic coach comments. But here’s the deal. willy has so much more potential than Kanter long term but Kanter right now is still the better player. And coach is gonna play the better players right now.

    I know this isn’t what we as smart fans want but coaches will always play the guys they think give them the best shot at winning each game. Its on the GM to trade the vets away for picks and prospects and force the coaches hand. It doesn’t matter if Willy works hard or was all rookie team last year and started to end the season. Kanter is the veteran, Kanter is better NOW and Kanter makes 18 million.

    You just gotta hope there can be a trade down the line OR KAnter opts out. He probably won’t make 18 million a year on his next contract but he’s still super young and can score, so if he can snag a 10 or 12 million a year deal for 4 years he’s probably opting out. So we just gotta suffer through this. Once the season is “lost” then Willie will play more especially if we trade KQ.

  32. kevin5318

    Although it was his first game in awhile I was still mildly concerned that Frank was getting pressured by Felton.

  33. Z-man

    Sorry, guys, I’ve had to endure months of people trumping up Ntilikina and bashing DSjr, and I never told anyon to stop posting about it, only responded in kind. People here went as far as to predict that DSjr would be injured in a few games. Stop with the thin-skinned holier-than-thou BS. If you don’t like my posts, feel free to ignore them.

    As to comparing Frank to Ball, really?! I’m gonna love having that debate going forward!

    I’m not saying that Frank was a better pick than DSJ (I wouldn’t have picked him), but he definitely deserves more leeway than Baker at this point.

    Why? Baker was an undrafted player who impressed mgmt enough to hoodwink them into a $5 mill per for 2 year deal. That he is even in the NBA is FAR FAR FAR beyond any reasonable expectation. And if he was cut tomorrow, he’d be immediately signed by some team to a minimum deal. Frank was picked over what many experts believed to be better players in a deep and talented draft class. Compared to his fellow 19-yo’s, he deserves no leeway whatsoever, especially when the most common refrain from his supporters was that he held his own against grown men in a professional league while DSjr was torching NCAA scrubs at a mediocre school and Mitchell was unfairly advantaged b/c he was older.

    When I stop hearing bs about his potential and apologism for when he stinks up the court like he did yesterday while Smith Jr looks like a budding star, maybe I’ll stop making posts that irritate his staunchest supporters and get on the bandwagon. Last night, I saw a kid who looked like a late 2nd round draft-and-stash flier, if that.

    And I don’t want to hear about the pundits all agreeing that he was a top-10 pick. They said the same about lots of busts, like Hasheem Thabeet.

  34. ClashFan

    @35
    I partly agree, but I’m not sure that Kanter is really better right now. Willy needs work, but Kanter is horrific on defense. Plus, to properly showcase him, he needs to come off the bench and play mostly vs. backup guys b/c that will make his numbers pop for a potential trade.

    Let Willy start and get about 20 min. Give Kanter about 20 off the bench. That leaves 8 for OQ, who can also get a few more minutes each game playing with Kanter off the bench. Noah sits.

  35. Bruno Almeida

    @37

    People are just saying you’re making definite conclusions about a 19 year old who played 3 non garbage time minutes against a top 6 team in the league and this annoys them because it’s at least a year too early to call a 19 year old a bust.

    But whatever, your mind is set and it is what it is. Let’s hope Frank fails and Smith is a monster so you can be right in your predictions!

  36. thenoblefacehumper

    Seeing as how DSJ went one pick after us, and the guy we picked allegedly plays basketball but no one can really say for sure, I think comparing their performances is a perfectly legitimate topic of discussion. If you don’t want to hear it that’s one thing, but don’t pretend it’s completely irrelevant to the New York Knicks.

    Complaining about things in the past that we can’t change is a big part of what we do here.

  37. djphan

    pg’s take a long time to develop… so having soso first couple of years isn’t a death knell but there was plenty of evidence that smith was the better pick and if he has a better year it’s more than likely he’ll end up the better player…

    we have frank tho… and so we have to ride this out where ever it takes us… but a ball handler that looks like a fish out of water doesn’t exactly inspire confidence… if you’re a good ballhandler pressure shouldn’t phase you… that applies more to baker but you can’t see more of that from frank…. first exposure to real nba comp and lack of preseason are good excuses so we’ll just have to see but i’m not exactly holding my breath….

  38. thenoblefacehumper

    And if he was cut tomorrow, he’d be immediately signed by some team to a minimum deal.

    I honestly don’t think this is true. He went undrafted, so it’s not like there’s some longstanding widespread interest in him. Since being in the NBA, he’s played exactly at the level you would expect from an undrafted player. I don’t think he’s improved his reputation at all.

  39. djphan

    @bruno – this is for you in particular…. you have given ppl so much of a hard time over the frank vs smith arguments …. and had such high and mighty attitude over it… don’t be surprised when ppl check you… don’t try to handwave your way through arguments to protect your ego and say we need 5 years to evaluate this… you can absolutely make judgments much sooner than that…

  40. er

    BTW, if anyone thought we were going to see a “new” Carmelo Anthony on OKC, his stat line looked totally familiar: 22 points on 20 shots, 1 rebound, 1 assist.

    Lol..yes sound one game stat analysis. That looks nothing like his career numbers….but yeah keep picking it apart. The guy took 10 threes last night. That is completely new. I think his career high is like 6

  41. er

    @bruno – this is for you in particular…. you have given ppl so much of a hard time over the frank vs smith arguments …. and had such high and mighty attitude over it… don’t be surprised when ppl check you…

    umm hmm. Im not gonna judge frank yet, ill give him 20 games. But I definitely wanted Smith, he would have done wonders for KP

  42. kevin5318

    Seeing as how DSJ went one pick after us, and the guy we picked allegedly plays basketball but no one can really say for sure, I think comparing their performances is a perfectly legitimate topic of discussion. If you don’t want to hear it that’s one thing, but don’t pretend it’s completely irrelevant to the New York Knicks.

    That’s fine but comparing the two after every single game they play(which is gonna happen) will get old pretty quick.

  43. stratomatic says you can't play defense if you keep getting players than can't defend

    I think it’s reasonable to compare how various draft picks are playing relative to where they were selected. It’s just unreasonable to draw any definitive conclusions based on 1 year, let alone 8 minutes.

    That was my point about Ball.

    Last night Ball sucked, but I consider his performance last night ridiculously irrelevant. So why would I hold 8 minutes against Frank?

    I think Frank is a mortal lock to be a good player that we are going to be happy with. I have no idea if he’ll reach all star status, but that’s what we need to go along with KP. Let’s be patient.

  44. Z-man

    But whatever, your mind is set and it is what it is. Let’s hope Frank fails and Smith is a monster so you can be right in your predictions!

    Not the point. As I’ve said many times, I’d love to be wrong, just like I’m sure JK47, DRed, THCJ would love to have been wrong about some of the shit they’ve been right about. Well, maybe not THCJ.

    And as soon as it looks like I’m wrong, I will celebrate and jump on the bandwagon.

    But until then, the unbridled (and imho unwarranted) optimism about Frank and the dismissive, supercilious tone of some in Frank’s fan club, about most things but particularly towards DSjr, is often vomit-inducing for me. But keep right on posting, dude! I sure will!

  45. JK47

    If Ntilikina busts and Hernangomez can’t make the rotation of one of the worst teams in the NBA that doesn’t do a whole lot for Phil Jackson’s “legacy” as a great draft expert. Thanks, Phil! At least you found Scrappy Doo as an UDFA!

    All seriousness tho, we should probably give Ntilikina more than eight minutes in the league before beaming with pride about being “right” that he’s never going to be any good. But whatever, KB gonna KB.

  46. Z-man

    @47 my conclusions are based on my own analysis of all of these picks dating back about a year. I’ve watched just about every clip on most of these guys and read all the articles. At some point, you make a judgment. Sure, 5 minutes doesn’t mean shit either way, but at the present time, there has been nothing to go on, no summer league, no preseason, and no regular season, so I have to revert back to my analysis until I see cause for optimism. And if Smith Jr. and Mitchell are tearing it up while Frank is stinking it up, you can bet that I’ll be harping on it.

    And anyone with a brain in their head knows that Lonzo Ball is a sure-fire NBA starting caliber PG. Maybe not a HOFer or even a star, but his floor is firmly established. Same with Dennis Smith Jr. Frank’s floor is probably a borderline NBA player. There’s not a single indicator that he’s capable of being an NBA rotation player any time soon, much less a starter, and much, much less a starting PG, or a PG at all.

  47. Bruno Almeida

    “@bruno – this is for you in particular…. you have given ppl so much of a hard time over the frank vs smith arguments …. and had such high and mighty attitude over it… don’t be surprised when ppl check you… don’t try to handwave your way through arguments to protect your ego and say we need 5 years to evaluate this… you can absolutely make judgments much sooner than that…”

    And that’s perfectly fine. I have no ego to protect here, my friend. People can “check me” all they want, I’m just posting about what I feel and what I see, it’s a message board, people will disagree and do so in less than respectful ways many times. Most people here stick to their opinions no matter what and I generally do so too, so I dont see how that’s acting high and mighty. If something is annoying to someone what’s the problem in saying so?

    I’ve said many times I think Frank was the best choice in terms of who’s having a better career and who’s got more high end potential. For me it’s about shooting for the stars all the time on the draft as a rebuilding team, you don’t pick the guy you sorta know what he can do, you pick the guy who you think has a chance to be great, not good. Of course this can fail miserably and it might fail in Frank’s case. I dont see how that’s handwaving through arguments. You can make judgments as soon as you want, just like I can think and say it’s stupid to do so after such a small sample.

  48. Ben R

    It is way too early to make any judgements about Ntilikina. That includes hopeful ones. Right now we have no real info about how he’ll do against NBA competition. He’s looked bad in one preseason and terrible in 8 minutes of real nba time but that’s nothing.

    The injuries and lack of impressive numbers last year worry me more than a bad showing in his first 8 nba minutes. Let’s give him 500+ minutes before we start to really worry.

    Is there something wrong with Willy? He has looked low energy all preseason and in this game too. He is still productive but he barely resembles the player from last year. That is probably the reason for him being out of the rotation.

  49. bobneptune

    @bruno – this is for you in particular…. you have given ppl so much of a hard time over the frank vs smith arguments …. and had such high and mighty attitude over it… don’t be surprised when ppl check you… don’t try to handwave your way through arguments to protect your ego and say we need 5 years to evaluate this… you can absolutely make judgments much sooner than that…

    Sure…. but 8 minutes is generally insufficient :-)

  50. Cock Jowles, #1 League-Average Superstar

    Not the point. As I’ve said many times, I’d love to be wrong, just like I’m sure JK47, DRed, THCJ would love to have been wrong about some of the shit they’ve been right about. Well, maybe not THCJ.

    I wish I were wrong about the Knicks’ inability to identify, acquire and retain talent. Maybe then we could have drafted just one of the many future superstars I’ve identified by simply reading a dumb, fake advanced metric on a spreadsheet and suggesting our draft picks from it. But no, let’s give $71M to Tim Fucking Hardaway and $72M to Joakim Fucking Noah and $48M to Courtney Fucking Lee and $27M to Lance Fucking Thomas and a fucking no-trade clause to Ron Fucking Baker and trade or let walk every draft pick we’ve had since Charlie Fucking Ward.

    Looking forward to Porzingis getting a designated-player max by hitting a PPG threshold this year.

  51. djphan

    Sure…. but 8 minutes is generally insufficient :-)

    i stated as much in my previous post… but i don’t think it’s unfair to make snap judgments especially when we have a larger sample of games that they both have played and there was plenty of evidence that some ppl were viewing that evidence wrong….

    we obviously won’t be making solid conclusions at least until the 2nd year… but if frank falls absolutely flat his rookie year then i think there’s cause for a lot of concern….

  52. bobneptune

    Is there something wrong with Willy? He has looked low energy all preseason and in this game too. He is still productive but he barely resembles the player from last year. That is probably the reason for him being out of the rotation.

    Was Jeb! Bush his personal trainer :-)

  53. ess-dog

    I’m pretty sure Frank HAS to play going forward. There’s no other acceptable pg on the roster. Let’s see if Jack gets some run tomorrow. Horny can’t be pleased with what Sessions did out there.

  54. Bruno Almeida

    @55

    See, I completely agree with you here.
    If he sucks in his rookie year of course the conversation changes. If he sucks in his first 8 minutes, half of those in garbage time, it’s still too early.

    There’s reason to be excited about what he can bring, as there would be reason to be excited about Dennis Smith Jr. as a Knick. Saying you’re right and that the kid sucks after 8 minutes is what’s being “high and mighty” means, in my humble opinion.

  55. bobneptune

    i stated as much in my previous post… but i don’t think it’s unfair to make snap judgments especially when we have a larger sample of games that they both have played…. we obviously won’t be making solid conclusions at least until the 2nd year… but if frank falls absolutely flat his rookie year then i think there’s cause for a lot of concern….

    I am very tempted to say no shit sherlock….if he posts Ron Baker negative ws/48 numbers over 2000 minutes Jesus everybody should be ready to jump out a bleepin window. I just don’t get the rush to judgement because the guy didn’t light it up in 8 minutes coming off an injury with zero NBA experience. It is almost like Knick fans are hoping shit goes badly so they say ’cause Knicks or how’s dat goink or other assorted douchbaggery…. its quite annoying to listen to with zero sample size.

    Hey… if he sucks, he sucks…. but how about being reasonable.

  56. Ben R

    I think the reason why people are so quick to jump on the Ntilikina isn’t good train is because they are already there. Looking at his stats last year he doesn’t project into the NBA very well and a lot of people are seeing his struggles or more importantly lack of any flashes of hope at all as proof that they were right. I’m doing my best to reserve judgement for a while but I’m really hoping for something, a great pass, a really nice move to the basket, a brilliant defensive stop among all the struggles to give hope but nothing so far.

  57. geo

    looking forward to saturday’s game against detroit…they seem more to our level of competition, plus the game will be in the garden…

  58. stratomatic says you can't play defense if you keep getting players than can't defend

    It’s time to put Frank on the block, I’m a patient man, but 8 minutes is long enough!

  59. Z-man

    @60 +1, and I would include his game film from Strasbourg. I saw a player with no burst, limited handle, primitive offensive finishing moves, suspect shooting, high foul rate and terrible A/to ratio. All I kept hearing as a defense is:
    1. He’s 19 years old!
    2. He’s playing in a grown man’s league that’s much better than NCAA comp!
    3. He’s being forced to play out of position!
    4. He’s playing behind veterans b/c Strasbourg doesn’t care about developing him!
    5. Wingspan! Wingspan! Wingspan!
    6. He has a high b-ball IQ!

    But yeah, when we actually see some evidence, I’ll be happy to change my tune.

  60. Z-man

    Being honest, what would Frank fetch on the block right now, compared to the guys drafted just before and after him? Is it fair to say, less than them?

  61. djphan

    i’m not saying that 8 minutes is indicative of anything…. what i am saying is that there was evidence beforehand that this guy probably won’t be a good player…. irrespective of what those 8 minutes showed.. the more time goes on we’ll see if those suspicions are confirmed but like i said i’m not holding my breath….

    i absolutely will hope that he pans out… there’s really no other choice… i was wrong on kp and admitted as much as soon as i saw him in his first summer league… and i couldn’t be happier… we all love this team or we wouldn’t be here….

  62. stratomatic says you can't play defense if you keep getting players than can't defend

    Being honest, what would Frank fetch on the block right now, compared to the guys drafted just before and after him? Is it fair to say, less than them?

    Well, if they read this forum we’d probably have to attach Chicago’s 2nd round pick just to get rid of him. :-)

  63. er

    yeah, that’s the thing that was eating at me Z man. I didn’t see any flashes, his size is great though.

  64. kevin5318

    I wanted DSJr too but I’m willing to give Frank a chance since they spent an entire year scouting this guy. Maybe they predicted him developing some burst when he gets some more leg strength, IDK.

    Also the fact that the Mavs wanted Frank too shows that it wasn’t just a triangle thing with him.

  65. Frank O.

    Couple things:
    – I thought floor spacing was pretty bad at times.
    – I thought it took our guards too long to get into the offense.
    – I thought our guards and small forwards were a step slow, which causes unnecessary turnovers.
    – I thought there were too many throw it to KP and let him do something.
    – I thought Kanter looked like a second stringer playing against the first team.
    – I thought KP shat himself too often out of a double team.
    – If our guards at this bad, we should just start Frank and let him learn OJT.
    – I thought it was a travesty that O’Quinn got more minutes than Hernangomez.
    – I thought we finished poor at the hoop.
    – I thought all the raving Kenny and Charles were doing about OKC was unwarranted. Melo was basically the same guy he has been, a volume shooter with only episodic interest in defense and absolutely zero vertical.

  66. Z-man

    Well, Dallas claims that they hoodwinked us into drafting Frank and started hootin’
    ‘n’ hollerin’ when we did!

  67. kevin5318

    Yeah they hired Franks coach and Cubes himself flew out to meet Frank. Seems like a lot of work for a little misdirection.

  68. Bruno Almeida

    @72

    Yeah, that really seem like damage control. They even fired the dude after Frank did not fall to them, which pretty much shows the only reason he was considered was because Dallas was preparing to pick Frank.

  69. nicos

    The fact that Dallas liked Frank and would have drafted him at 9 doesn’t mean that they preferred him to Smith. I’m guessing they were genuinely surprised/happy that Smith was still there to be taken at 9. That said, the idea that they weren’t seriously considering Frank seems really far-fetched.

  70. er

    Couple things:
    – I thought floor spacing was pretty bad at times.
    – I thought it took our guards too long to get into the offense.
    – I thought our guards and small forwards were a step slow, which causes unnecessary turnovers.
    – I thought there were too many throw it to KP and let him do something.
    – I thought Kanter looked like a second stringer playing against the first team.
    – I thought KP shat himself too often out of a double team.
    – If our guards at this bad, we should just start Frank and let him learn OJT.
    – I thought it was a travesty that O’Quinn got more minutes than Hernangomez.
    – I thought we finished poor at the hoop.
    – I thought all the raving Kenny and Charles were doing about OKC was unwarranted. Melo was basically the same guy he has been, a volume shooter with only episodic interest in defense and absolutely zero vertical.

    70.

    Agree on all points except a few.

    First ” the Melo is the same guy camp” LOL yes that’s why they wanted him. And I thought his defense was pretty good last night. Charles did not rave at all and neither did shaq.

  71. bobneptune

    Well, Dallas claims that they hoodwinked us into drafting Frank and started hootin’
    ‘n’ hollerin’ when we did!

    Well… since I can’t play three dimensional chess or never solved the Kobyashi Maru at Starfleet I really need someone to explain how the drafting geniuses at Dallas “Hoodwinked” the Knicks into drafting someone they really liked less than the guy Dallas drafted????? I mean if they thought DS was a better prospect than Frank, wouldn’t they have just drafted him first, when they had the chance????

    Cause Knicks, That’s so Knicksy How’s it goink?

  72. ess-dog

    Honestly, though, there’s nothing to lose by playing the (shitty) vets more early in the season.

    Either A:
    Kanter, Lee, and O’Quinn do surprisingly well and get traded for more than a bag of chips, or…

    B:
    They play like shit for five weeks and the narrative becomes “let’s bring in the young guys because these crap guys are crap.” Then there’s no pressure on the kids, they’ve been eased into the league, and they’ve been spared useless injuries while learning behind some solidly below-average professionals.

    It’s a win-win.

  73. bobneptune

    Being honest, what would Frank fetch on the block right now, compared to the guys drafted just before and after him? Is it fair to say, less than them?

    #Trollsgonnatroll.

    To be honest only a moron would divine the “trade value” of a player who hasn’t played a game in over 3 months coming off 2 injuries where he couldn’t even practice for 10 days.

    I’m guessing you would have traded Greg Bird off his first few ML ab’s the mid September for a bucket of warm spit…. is that fair to say too?

  74. Frank

    well looks like Ntilikina just turned an ankle in practice today. not an auspicious start for our guy

  75. stratomatic says you can't play defense if you keep getting players than can't defend

    Frank just turned his ankle in practice and will be out for awhile. uggh

    edit: beat me to it Frank.:-)

  76. Ntilakilla

    Don’t worry guys, Frank is only “2 years away from being 2 years away!” Nice to see how “playing against grown men in a professional league which is far more competitive than the NCAA” has eased his transition. Poor Dennis Smith Jr., if only he had played in Europe Dallas would have picked up on all the holes in his game.

    Wow, you waited 8 minutes of a whole NBA game to engage in “I told you so” snark. Impressive level of bias.

  77. Z-man

    A good GM is divining trade value of everyone on the roster, as well as everyone potentially on the roster, 24-7-365. For example, teams make trades on draft night without ever seeing the player play at all. That’s how we got Jerian Grant. Why is it then “moronic” (ps FU2) to divine trade value with even more info? I see absolutely nothing wrong with comparing players, even draft picks that have no real track record, through the lens of their trade value. That doesn’t mean that a trade should be executed.

    It’s a fact right now to anyone but a moron that DSjr would bring more in a trade at this moment than Frank. That might change tomorrow if Frank puts out a triple-double, or DSjr blows out his knee. Or it may never change. But right now, with the information that is currently available, the smart money is on DSjr to have the better career. Maybe it’s 60-40, maybe 70-30, but let’s not be delusional that they’re still even money, or that any GM given a choice right now would take Frank over Smith.

  78. thenoblefacehumper

    If Frank had awesome statistical projections in the Euroleague no one would give a shit what he’s done in the summer league, preseason, first game, practice, you name it. It’s a disingenuous counter to an argument that no one is making. A lot of people were concerned about the way his statistics translated to the NBA compared to other foreign prospects. So far, he’s done nothing to allay those concerns. That doesn’t mean he won’t, it just means those concerns are still very valid.

    Long story short, I hope Frank turns out to be an awesome player. Looking at the situation completely objectively, all the information we have right now tells me he won’t be.

  79. bobneptune

    A good GM is divining trade value of everyone on the roster, as well as everyone potentially on the roster, 24-7-365. For example, teams make trades on draft night without ever seeing the player play at all. That’s how we got Jerian Grant. Why is it then “moronic” (ps FU2) to divine trade value with even more info?

    Simply because there isn’t a reasonable situation you can concoct where trading Frank today could ever be reasonable.

    Again I’ll ask you do you think Cashman was divining Greg Bird’s trade value September 15th this year after he sat out 3 months after hitting .100 over a hundred ML at bats this year????? Of course not because only a moron trades players at their nadirs.

    I’m guessing Mr Bird’s trade value is a little better 10/20 than it was 9/15 and what it was 9/15 was completely meaningless….. just like Frank’s is today.

  80. bobneptune

    It’s a fact right now to anyone but a moron that DSjr would bring more in a trade at this moment than Frank. That might change tomorrow if Frank puts out a triple-double, or DSjr blows out his knee. Or it may never change. But right now, with the information that is currently available, the smart money is on DSjr to have the better career.

    Ummmm…. no. The only thing you can say is DS has had a better one game career, Who cares who brings more in a trade today if you aren’t trading Frank off the DL. It is an insane argument concocted to merely troll and I love to feed trolls.

    I mean LOL fing sample size……

  81. Will the Thrill

    If Frank had awesome statistical projections in the Euroleague no one would give a shit what he’s done in the summer league, preseason, first game, practice, you name it. It’s a disingenuous counter to an argument that no one is making. A lot of people were concerned about the way his statistics translated to the NBA compared to other foreign prospects. So far, he’s done nothing to allay those concerns. That doesn’t mean he won’t, it just means those concerns are still very valid.

    Exactly. I would not care about preseason or his garbage time minutes yesterday at all if we had any concrete evidence of him having NBA skills. I am rooting for him as hard as possible, and maybe he will turn out have a great career, but to act like he has shown really anything NBA-level besides a good U-18 performance and his size would be disingenuous.
    …and now he’s injured again and probably will be out for months with our luck. Ugh.

  82. GoNyGoNyGo

    I thought he was trying to tell the team to call a timeout. But they just played without him. I guess they’re used to tuning out what he says? ¯\_(?)_/¯

    I posted why in the game thread but posting there was fast and furious so it was likely missed.

    The NBA made a significant rule change this season with time-outs. They went from 18 TOs to 14 per game. There are no more 20 second TOs – they’re all 75 seconds (full TOs used to be 100 seconds). And they reduced the number of TOs in the last 3 minutes from 3 to 2.

    This change is significant and means that teams will be hoarding them as much as possible. Details of the change are here: New NBA Time Out rules

  83. GoNyGoNyGo

    My assessment of the game last night is simply that I won’t assess it. A lot of things were abnormal. Melo, Kanter and McDermott were all playing against their former teams. Adams seemed to have Kanter’s number when it came to post-up moves. Melo was chucking from all over the place (to be expected). KP was just as eager to show Melo that he was better. Frank played like it was a pre-season game, which for him, it was.

    This Knicks team will need a bunch of time to gel. Transition defense was awful. They couldn’t handle the ball or Westbrook. The Sessions vs Westbrook matchup was like me trying to guard an NBA player. The two aren’t in the same class.

    Honestly, I’m amazed we only lost by 21.

  84. kevin5318

    Who the hell cares what DSJr would fetch in a trade? The facts that most team value pointzz make him an easy choice for them.

  85. DRed

    If Frank is going to be good it’s probably going to take some time. I’m a bit more worried in the short term with how bad Sessions has looked. I’m a pretty big Ron Baker fan , but he might be the only PG on the roster with + NBA skills and those are on the defensive end

  86. er

    Who the hell cares what DSJr would fetch in a trade? The facts that most team value pointzz make him an easy choice for them.

    He had 10 assists too.

  87. er

    CP3 out for a month. I wonder how many teams would take him DSJr over him right now

    I guess we can test my theory now.

  88. kevin5318

    I get that er. It’s just silly to talk about current trade value when one guy is considered NBA ready and the other a raw project.

  89. 2FOR18, understands math

    I was just thinking that we’re gonna have to watch Kanter try to guard Drummond tomorrow , and the Benny Hill theme song rang out in my head.

    Other than Willie not playing, last night’s game went as expected. As I said in my 23 win prediction comments, this is what you get when you have no pgs.

    I’m embracing the tank, and hoping that it won’t be long until we see Frank, Dotson, KP and Willy out there for 30 mins a night.

  90. 2FOR18, understands math

    Re: Smith Jr., the guy he was guarding outscored him by 12 points and his team lost. According to my math skills, that = not ideal.
    So rolls need to be slowed re: Jr.

  91. er

    Re: Smith Jr., the guy he was guarding outscored him by 12 points and his team lost. According to my math skills, that = not ideal.
    So rolls need to be slowed re: Jr.

    LOL …that’s awful analysis. If Frank did EXACTLY what Smith did you would be talking hella shit about how good he is. And like I said before, Smith was not guarding Schroder when he went off in the 4th. Please stop

  92. 2FOR18, understands math

    Er, don’t put words in my mouth. When have I ever been a mindless cheerleader for a player just because he’s on the Knicks? Re: Frank, I haven’t said anything, because I have no idea. Dude is always hurt, so I haven’t seen anything to form an opinion.

  93. Ben R

    I think our offense is going to have a lot of variance. I think against worse, less aggressive defenses we’ll be able to have terrible PG play and still be effective but it’ll be like a house of cards. Apply a little bit of pressure and it will all come tumbling down.

    I’m still thinking 30-35 wins.

  94. hornyKnickfan

    Sessions and Lance were trash last night.
    I thought that Baker and McDermott showed promise.
    Hopefully by the end of the season we’ll be starting Porzy, WHG, Frank, Dotson and TH2 and/or McDetmott. That’s our future.

  95. geo

    @103 The bubble boy was a nasty S.O.B. geo. I hope that Ntilikina turns out just like him.

    hey horny :-) i almost forgot how crazy that scene was…who can’t use a little extra seinfeld in their life…

    https://youtu.be/_SULQSL4Cd0

    hopefully they’ll come a time when we’re talking about frank strangling opposing guards instead of his young ailing body…

  96. Bruno Almeida

    Ntilikina turned his ankle in practice and won’t play? What a bust, DSJr has turned 0 of his ankles so far this season.

  97. er

    Er, don’t put words in my mouth. When have I ever been a mindless cheerleader for a player just because he’s on the Knicks? Re: Frank, I haven’t said anything, because I have no idea. Dude is always hurt, so I haven’t seen anything to form an opinion.

    Well I certainly do apologize. I confused you with a frank stan. My bad

  98. Jack Bauer

    “this is what you get when you have no pgs. ”

    This is the same sad story for the Knicks virtually every year this century. Rinse and repeat.

  99. ruruland

    Surprised there’s such indifference to KP’s game last night. Pretty much showed everything.

    I get there’s really not much else to talk about from last night, except perhaps that the Thunder look like they’re going to be great, especially defensively.

    Also….

    RW had ZERO midrange jumpers last night. He averaged 12 pull-up jumpers alone last year (11 of his 12 shots were within 5 feet).

    I think he liked picking on the Knicks guards, but that might be some gravity effect there from having considerably better shooters around him that defenses respect, at least historically.

    Melo had 6 unguarded 3 point shots (7 overall) and 5 pull-up jumpers (he averaged 9 last year). He averaged 2 open shots per game last season.

    He destroyed KP off the dribble, though KP recovered on one for a great block. He’s going to matchup against slow PFs all year. That’s never happened.

    Fewer midrange shots, much better match-ups, more transition as a trailer, and more open catch-and-shoot.

    Go ahead and believe he’s not going to see a jump in efficiency with those dynamics. And same thing for PG and RW.

  100. ruruland

    Not sure what people see in Baker. I’m not sure there’s a single thing he does well.

    Sucks that we won’t see Dotson until March, barring injury.

  101. er

    Yeah I agree with everything you said. I have Russeen as mvp after 1 game. If that guy stop’s taking” bad” shots his numbers will be absurd

    He may go for 60+ triple doubles this year

  102. JK47

    Melo had 6 unguarded 3 point shots (7 overall) and 5 pull-up jumpers (he averaged 9 last year). He averaged 2 open shots per game last season.

    He also never got to play against the New York Knicks last season.

  103. JK47

    Here we are all these years later and ruru is still peddling the same shit.

    This time it’s the gravity effect that is finally going to turn Melo into an efficient player at age 33. Whatever.

  104. Cock Jowles, #1 League-Average Superstar

    This time it’s the gravity effect that is finally going to turn Melo into an efficient player at age 33. Whatever.

    The NBA’s very own chicken-or-the-egg argument. Does Carmelo create gravity or does he need gravity to succeed?

    Luckily, ruruland is back to remind us that it’s all about perspective, sort of like a Schrodinger’s Me7o theory.

    Welcome back, ruruland. I hope you stay long enough to be posting when all of your predictions fail again.

  105. Grocer

    I thought he was trying to tell the team to call a timeout. But they just played without him. I guess they’re used to tuning out what he says? ¯\_(?)_/¯

    If nobody noticed him that’s really bad. If they just don’t like him that’s sort of impressive solidarity. Coming together as a team!

  106. er

    I don’t think it’s crazy on a team where the guy gets plenty of wide open shots. It’s not even about him it’s about Russ. Russell is gravity incarnate2

    Also most teams aren’t huge like the knicks, so the paint is there too. I’m not predictin anything but if you can’t be better in that situation , then you are a lost cause.

    Never mind when they play Patterson at the 5…a lineup we didn’t see much as he is just off an injury. We will see

  107. bobneptune

    Dennis Smith Jr. Is out tonight with a knee effusion (whatever that is)

    Swelling in the joint capsule usually. You can have effusion from a bruise also

  108. Dough Chew, Ntank Commander

    Dennis Smith Jr. Is out tonight with a knee effusion (whatever that is)

    NOW WHO IS THE BUBBLE BOY?

  109. JK47

    I look forward to some more world-class cherry picking. “If you take out those 28 games where Melo was nursing a knee injury, he shot in the top ten percentile on spot-up jumpers and created 1.32 megajoules of basketball gravity”

  110. er

    Lol. If Melo kills it I woild wager that his critics on this site will be silent, if he isn’t they will be loud

  111. DRed

    Jonathan Isaacs played 4 minutes in the first half against the Nets and picked up 3 fouls, like a dog. Sad!

  112. JK47

    If Melo shoots his usual .530 TS%, ruru will magically disappear. If he gets it over .550 for a while expect to see him here a lot.

  113. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

    I predict Melo will still look like Melo but have better advanced stats like WS and WP. Generally playing on a really good team instead of a really bad team improves those stats because there are more points to go around in calculating them. It’s what happened to JR when he went to Cleveland. Melo’s shooting efficency could go up too, but it’s going to take more than one game to figure that out.

  114. Bruno Almeida

    Ruruland is really back! It certainly took a long while to manufacture more cherry picked stats that look favorably at Melo, but it finally happened. It’s been a glorious couple of days!

    We really should have separate threads every time the Mavericks and Thunder play, so we can maybe also talk about the Knicks in the midst of Dennis Smith Jr. and Melo threads.

  115. Cock Jowles, #1 League-Average Superstar

    In case ruruland runs off for an entire season again: you are a fucking hack, bud.

  116. Bruno Almeida

    @130

    Do you have like a prompt on your phone that everytime someone criticizes or makes fun of Melo it alerts you to come here and complain about it?

    Let’s test it: Melo is league-average!

  117. Cock Jowles, #1 League-Average Superstar

    Bruno, I think you’re a little off-base here.

    Melo is below league-average!

  118. Cock Jowles, #1 League-Average Superstar

    Off-topic that swing by Sanchez was the literal worst swing in a high-leverage situation that I’ve seen in a long, long time. I’d almost rather have watched him go down like Beltran in ’06.

  119. Bruno Almeida

    I just rewatched the movie Gravity, therefore from now on I’ll refer to Melo only as below league-average George Clooney.

  120. ClydesCowSuit

    @129 ditto on separate threads

    there also should be 4 threads per game so new judgements of long term outcomes can be made in 10 min increments

    Say what you will about rotations…and something should be said…but at least Jack had 0 min!

  121. er

    Nah you people are just obsessed. I rarely ever bring Melo up or start convwrsations about melo here. He’ll I even was the one who proposed “Melo free Fridays” , which lasted what 1 week? Lol

    But if people say some thing I don’t agree with I’ll let it be known. Idgaf what u think about it

  122. Bruno Almeida

    @138

    I had to double check because I didn’t really believe it, but Vucevic also scored 41 against them (on 17/22 shooting).

    The rumours of the demise of the Nets as a terrible team were greatly exaggerated.

  123. JK47

    Any state when it comes to Melo = cherry picked. Funny how that works around here

    You want some Melo stats that aren’t cherry-picked? Take a look at his TS% for the last three seasons. Nice big sample size. It’s mediocre as fuck. Not cherry-picked either!

  124. Cock Jowles, #1 League-Average Superstar

    You talked big for years and disappeared when Carmelo couldn’t will the team to 35 wins, yet again. Total hack.

  125. Bruno Almeida

    @149

    For someone who attacks other people’s reading comprehension so much, you sure seem to struggle with it a bit!

    Have a good night sir!

  126. Mike Honcho

    Just like the good old days. Might it be that someone breaks out the bleach before too long?

    In all seriousness, though, there’s no reason to panic, guys. We’re one game behind the Warriors, so clearly everything is coming up Knicks.

  127. JK47

    If you want to have a good laugh, google “Knicks acquire Derrick Rose Knickerblogger” and look at some of the clinically insane things people said on that thread.

    “Knicks will be fighting for the #2 seed”
    “Rose will be comeback player of the year”
    “I can’t wait to see y’all eat crow when D-Rose is awesome”

    Lots of comedy gold like that.

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