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Wednesday, September 3, 2014

Knicks 2012 Schedule

Today, the NBA released the official 2012 NBA schedule. It will start with the Knicks facing the Celtics at the Garden on Christmas Day, and will end with a trip to Charlotte on April 26.

December Opponent Time Nat TV
Sat 17 @ New Jersey Preseason 2:00pm
Wed 21 vs New Jersey Preseason 7:30pm
Sun 25 vs Boston 12:00pm TNT
Wed 28 @ Golden State 10:30pm NBATV
Thu 29 @ LA Lakers 10:30pm TNT
Sat 31 @ Sacramento 8:00pm
January Opponent Time Nat TV
Mon 02 vs Toronto 7:30pm
Wed 04 vs Charlotte 7:30pm
Fri 06 @ Washington 7:00pm
Sat 07 @ Detroit 7:30pm
Mon 09 vs Charlotte 7:30pm NBATV
Wed 11 vs Philadelphia 7:30pm
Thu 12 @ Memphis 8:00pm TNT
Sat 14 @ Oklahoma City 8:00pm
Mon 16 vs Orlando 1:00pm
Wed 18 vs Phoenix 7:30pm
Fri 20 vs Milwaukee 7:30pm
Sat 21 vs Denver 7:30pm NBATV
Tue 24 @ Charlotte 7:00pm
Wed 25 @ Cleveland 7:00pm
Fri 27 @ Miami 8:00pm ESPN
Sat 28 @ Houston 8:00pm
Tue 31 vs Detroit 7:30pm
February Opponent Time Nat TV
Thu 02 vs Chicago 8:00pm TNT
Fri 03 @ Boston 8:00pm ESPN
Sat 04 vs New Jersey 7:30pm
Mon 06 vs Utah 7:30pm NBATV
Wed 08 @ Washington 7:00pm NBATV
Fri 10 vs LA Lakers 8:00pm ESPN
Sat 11 @ Minnesota 8:00pm
Tue 14 @ Toronto 7:00pm
Wed 15 vs Sacramento 7:30pm
Fri 17 vs New Orleans 8:00pm ESPN
Sun 19 vs Dallas 1:00pm ABC
Mon 20 vs New Jersey 7:30pm
Wed 22 vs Atlanta 7:30pm
Thu 23 @ Miami 7:00pm TNT
Wed 29 vs Cleveland 7:30pm
March Opponent Time Nat TV
Sun 04 @ Boston 1:00pm ABC
Tue 06 @ Dallas 8:30pm
Wed 07 @ San Antonio 8:30pm
Fri 09 @ Milwaukee 8:30pm
Sun 11 vs Philadelphia 12:00pm
Mon 12 @ Chicago 8:00pm ESPN
Wed 14 vs Portland 7:30pm
Fri 16 vs Indiana 7:30pm
Sat 17 @ Indiana 7:00pm
Tue 20 vs Toronto 7:30pm
Wed 21 @ Philadelphia 7:00pm ESPN
Fri 23 @ Toronto 7:00pm
Sat 24 vs Detroit 7:30pm
Mon 26 vs Milwaukee 7:30pm
Wed 28 vs Orlando 7:00pm ESPN
Fri 30 @ Atlanta 7:30pm
Sat 31 vs Cleveland 7:30pm
April Opponent Time Nat TV
Tue 03 @ Indiana 7:00pm
Thu 05 @ Orlando 7:00pm TNT
Sun 08 vs Chicago 1:00pm ABC
Tue 10 @ Chicago 9:30pm ESPN
Wed 11 @ Milwaukee 8:00pm
Fri 13 vs Washington 7:30pm
Sun 15 vs Miami 1:00pm ABC
Tue 17 vs Boston 8:00pm TNT
Wed 18 @ New Jersey 7:30pm
Fri 20 @ Cleveland 7:30pm
Sun 22 @ Atlanta 1:00pm ESPN
Wed 25 vs LA Clippers 8:00pm ESPN
Thu 26 @ Charlotte 8:00pm TNT

Here’s the link: http://www.nba.com/knicks/schedule/

  • After hosting the Celtics on Christmas Day, the Knicks will head west for a brutal 3 game West Coast trip versus the Warriors, Lakers, and Kings.
  • There will be no Melo return to Denver this season. However, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mosgov, and maybe Wilson Chandler will return to the Garden on January 21
  • The Knicks will be on national TV 27 times this season. 8 games on TNT, 10 on ESPN, 4 on ABC, and 5 on NBATV.
  • The Knicks will play 19 back to backs on the season, and only 1 back to back to back from February 2 to 4 (Chicago, @Boston, NJ).
  • LeBron and the Heat only come to the Garden once on April 15, while the Knicks will head to Miami twice to play the Heat (January 27, February 23).
  • The Knicks will only play 3 Western Conference teams twice (Lakers, Kings, and Mavericks), as part of each team playing only 18 non-conference games in the shortened season.
  • The Knicks won’t visit the Clippers, Nuggets, Suns, Jazz, Hornets, and Trail Blazers, while the Timberwolves, Spurs, Rockets, Thunder, Grizzlies, and Warriors won’t come to the Garden this season. Which means there will be no chance for Knicks’ fans to see Kevin Durant in person this year.

77 comments on “Knicks 2012 Schedule

  1. BigBlueAL

    “After hosting the Celtics on Christmas Day, the Knicks will head west for a brutal 3 game West Coast trip versus the Warriors, Lakers, and Kings.”

    Thats not exactly brutal.

  2. daJudge

    Sorry to go off topic, but does anyone know if the new CBA permits cash/loans/assumption of debt to be offered by a team to secure another player? If so, does that expenditure count against our cap? Given NO’s precarious financial position, perhaps the Knicks could offer the above since we do not have the players to satisfy NO. I’m probably way off base here because of restrictions in the CBA. Just a thought.

  3. Kikuchiyo

    As someone trapped in the No Man’s Land of NBA coverage—I can’t get Knicks games on LeaguePass BB because I’m “in the area” but my cable provider (Hartford, CT) does not actually carry MSG—it is a joy to see so many games on ESPN/TNT/ABC. Another helpful reminder to us all that the Isiah era has passed.

    I think the David Lee teams averaged 2 or so national games each year, if that.

    I wonder which team goes to television purgatory now? The Spurs? Maybe not so many Celtics games? The Knuggets?

  4. Mike Kurylo

    daJudge:
    Sorry to go off topic, but does anyone know if the new CBA permits cash/loans/assumption of debt to be offered by a team to secure another player?If so, does that expenditure count against our cap? Given NO’s precarious financial position, perhaps the Knicks could offer the above since we do not have the players to satisfy NO. I’m probably way off base here because of restrictions in the CBA.Just a thought.

    Pretty sure it’s the same $3M limit.

  5. New Guy

    It is actually a $3 mil limit per team per year. So if Knicks used it in a trade with Paul, they would not be able to include cash in a trade with anyone else until next season.

  6. DS

    “Golden State Warriors guard Stephen Curry and Los Angeles Clippers guard Eric Gordon are the two players New Orleans has pursued the hardest in the Hornets’ fast-moving search for a workable Chris Paul trade, according to sources close to the talks.”

    You know, I’m really starting to wish that the Knicks were able to draft Stephen Curry instead of Jordan Hill.

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/217083/Hornets_Most_Interested_In_Curry_Gordon_In_Exchange_Of_Paul#ixzz1frh6U8ud

  7. Mike Kurylo

    DS:
    “Golden State Warriors guard Stephen Curry and Los Angeles Clippers guard Eric Gordon are the two players New Orleans has pursued the hardest in the Hornets’ fast-moving search for a workable Chris Paul trade, according to sources close to the talks.”

    You know, I’m really starting to wish that the Knicks were able to draft Stephen Curry instead of Jordan Hill.

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/217083/Hornets_Most_Interested_In_Curry_Gordon_In_Exchange_Of_Paul#ixzz1frh6U8ud

    Why? We would have traded him with Jeffries to Houston or to Denver for ‘Melo.

  8. New Guy

    Consider our record Post-Melo trade, consider that we really needed a training camp to gel and didn’t get one, consider D’Antoni is on a short leash, consider we’ll be working in new defensive principles that will take time to settle in, consider this personnel isn’t suited to SSOL and hasn’t figured out what it is most suited to yet, consider the higher probability of injuries to Chauncey and Amar’e with the compressed schedule. I just don’t think expectations should be too high for this regular season.

  9. Frank

    FWIW Berman is reporting that Grant Hill is really seriously considering signing with us.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/highway_to_hill_NcT99iIo1aL4qipH2AzzQP

    Call me crazy but with a starting lineup of:

    PG: Billups
    SG: Hill
    SF: Carmelo
    PF: Stoudemire
    C: Turiaf
    Bench of TD, Shumpert, Shawne, Jefferies

    That’s a very good team in the Eastern Conference. You have 5 guys who can be expected to shoot high 30s+ from 3 (Billups, Hill, Melo, TD, Shawne), Amare as a deadly PnR threat, Melo as a great iso or post threat etc. A defensive backcourt of TD, Shumpert, and Hill would be the best defensive backcourt from 1-3 position we’ve had since the days of Derek Harper, Starks, and Mason.

  10. Frank

    whoops, forgot about Fields who presumably would get minutes too. That’d be a pretty decent 10-deep roster for this compressed schedule.

  11. Frank O.

    Frank:
    whoops, forgot about Fields who presumably would get minutes too. That’d be a pretty decent 10-deep roster for this compressed schedule.

    agreed. Affirming again my thought that I don’t miss terribly all the role players folks were so attached to in the past.
    Nice that the Knicks are a team other teams need to be concerned about again.

  12. Jim Cavan (@JPCavan)

    Getting Hill would be a pretty big coup, IMHO. Talk about taking pressure off of Landry and Shumpert, having a proven leader and solid all-around player showing you the ropes. And being able to effectively defend three different positions doesn’t hurt, either.

  13. Eternal OptiKnist

    I’ve got to say, I agree with ‘new guy’ about our chances for this season. Many things need to break right for us to have a “really good” season. I think 38-28 would be success. I also believe that Hill is doing the same thing he did a few years back which is use the Knicks to drive up his price, he wants his last contract..which ain’t going to be a 1-year deal with this on-going circus act.

  14. Eternal OptiKnist

    A few weeks back, i could nto be happier that the lockout was over and i was looking forward to a good Knicks season. Despite my username, I’ve been in serious doubt about this team the last few days. Somebody please talk me off the ledge. I resented Melo since the day he got here. IMHO he gave away all Donnie’s leverage with last year’s antics. He could have come here on a Gasol-to-the-Lakers type trade if he went on ESPN radio and said the following “you know what, man? I’m really lucky to play this GAME for a living and make millions of dollars doing it when so many other people are not even working right now. Do I care about the new CBA? Am I concerned with becoming a free agent with all the uncertainty? Not at all..my family will be just fine.” Denver then says, wow…this guy is willing to become a free agent and doesn’t care about the CBA, lets trade him to the Knicks for a bag of balls. Even if he didnt believe what he was saying, it would have gotten him 1) his extension, 2) the Knicks, 3) good PR..fans appreciate the ‘not-about-the-money attitude’ AND 4) peices left to at least be in the conversation for CP3 or DH12. But no, he had to make everyone aware how scared he was of the new CBA and even said publicly (cant remember where) “the first thing that needs to get done is my extension”..he literally said that..LEVERAGE GONE! Donnie was not giving away the farm just yet though..not until Melo told our glorious owner at the allstar break that he would sign with the Nets. Dolan sidestepped Walsh and did the deal. I know owners get involved in big trades all the time…but when that owner is an alcoholic, its not helpful. I fear that Donnie saw the writing on the wall of how hamstrung he’d be moving forward and bailed out. I just fear that we’ll never have any real success with this owner. Just hearing Prokhorov talk about how they forced the Knicks to overpay for Melo and then get DWill kills me…THATs an owner.

  15. JK47

    @18

    Meh, they gave away a lot for Deron too, and he hasn’t signed an extension, so that trade could still go horribly wrong. Let’s see how excited Deron is to stay with the Nets after a full season of playing with Brook “I rebound like Eddy Curry” Lopez, Travis Outlaw and the rest of the scrubs the Nets send out there on a nightly basis.

    I say the Nets play sub-.500 ball and Deron walks.

  16. Eternal OptiKnist

    Thanks JK, even if they did, we just didn’t have to..Melo wanted to be here! I’m not that down on Brook..i know he sucked last year, but the year before alot of us were questioning our Gallo pick! A great PG can make a huge difference. I’d like to see the Nets do well, it’d be pretty cool to have a rivalry. Another concern..do you guys think Amare feels slighted by Melo? Melo seems to have ridden in to be ‘the man’..and just always comes of douchy and arrogant with his dumb glasses. Amare was a great leader last year and was LOVED by his teammates..a true man of the people. Melo comes of as an ‘im better than you” type guy that is more polarizing.

  17. Frank O.

    Deron could be the cautionary tale that prevents several teams from offering up big packages for CP3.

  18. Eternal OptiKnist

    will be too late by then..CP3 will have to go before we get resolution to D-will. My prediction is he stays and they pair him with the likes of a Nene, DH12 is a pipedream.

  19. Frank

    Eternal OptiKnist:
    I’ve got to say, I agree with ‘new guy’ about our chances for this season.Many things need to break right for us to have a “really good” season.I think 38-28 would be success.I also believe that Hill is doing the same thing he did a few years back which is use the Knicks to drive up his price, he wants his last contract..which ain’t going to be a 1-year deal with this on-going circus act.

    Wow, for a guy who per B-R has already made $134,379,650 in his career to be using the Knicks for an extra few bucks.. that would be really cynical. Hopefully that’s not the case. In 2009 when he resigned with PHX, the Suns had a younger Nash, Amare, etc. and ended up going to the Western Conference Finals. In 2011-12, they have…older Nash, no Amare, Channing Frye, Hakim Warrick, and Jared Dudley. I totally get why he went back to PHX in 09 – but unless he really has a commitment to Nash, I can’t imagine why he would want to continue to play with a team that is obviously not going to contend for anything and has an owner who is among the cheapest in pro sports.

  20. Frank

    Not to recruit back too many members of the 2009-10 team, but does anyone here think that McGrady might be worth a flyer as a cheap vet? He’s 2+ years out from his knee surgery now. As the backup 3 / secondary-tertiary scorer, secondary ball handler, he might be pretty good. Wonder if he would take the vet’s minimum and if he has any interest in coming back.

  21. BigBlueAL

    Frank:
    Not to recruit back too many members of the 2009-10 team, but does anyone here think that McGrady might be worth a flyer as a cheap vet? He’s 2+ years out from his knee surgery now.As the backup 3 / secondary-tertiary scorer, secondary ball handler, he might be pretty good. Wonder if he would take the vet’s minimum and if he has any interest in coming back.

    Looks like T-Mac is signing with the Hawks.

  22. d-mar

    I know I shouldn’t expect much from a writer like Berman, but in an article about Jeffries in today’s NY Post he’s just plain sloppy:

    “He is best remembered last season for his Game 2 flub in the final seconds when Carmelo Anthony passed up a shot, fed to an open Jeffries down low and his layup got partially rejected by the Celtics’ Kevin Garnett.”

    As we all vividly remember, it wasn’t a shot by Jeffries but an attempted pass to Billy Walker. It may be nitpicking, but this is a guy who does nothing but cover the Knicks, and that was probably the key play of last years’ playoff series. Just lazy reporting.

  23. danvt

    Frank: FWIW Berman is reporting that Grant Hill is really seriously considering signing with us.

    It would be good to have some quality depth on this roster. It would make me feel better about everyone that left. I’ve always loved Grant Hill’s game. Wow, that’d be a fun team to watch.

    DS: “Golden State Warriors guard Stephen Curry and Los Angeles Clippers guard Eric Gordon are the two players New Orleans has pursued the hardest in the Hornets’ fast-moving search for a workable Chris Paul trade, according to sources close to the talks.”

    You know, I’m really starting to wish that the Knicks were able to draft Stephen Curry instead of Jordan Hill.

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/217083/Hornets_Most_Interested_In_Curry_Gordon_In_Exchange_Of_Paul#ixzz1frh6U8ud

      

    If those kind of folks are available for a “superstar” on a long term deal, then, maybe Mike K is right and we should think about dangling one of our big guys.

  24. danvt

    Boy that last post came out looking dumb. Sorry, Frank, who I’m sure is smarter than me, didn’t say what is in the second paragraph. Sorry Frank.

  25. Eternal OptiKnist

    Frank: Wow, for a guy who per B-R has already made $134,379,650 in his career to be using the Knicks for an extra few bucks.. that would be really cynical.

    Grant Hill probably isn’t looking for a bank-breaking deal in terms of per-year dollars, but probably looking to get a multi-year deal for decent cash. Even if he doesnt re-sign with Phx for the good reasons you mentioned, i’d think he’d look for multi-year elsewhere.

  26. Eternal OptiKnist

    It would never happen, but we should trade Melo for DH12 straight up and sign CP3 after the season.

  27. flossy

    Grant Hill only made $3m last year. If we offered the full MLE for one year do you think he’d really say no? He’s about a thousand years old, is there any team out there that wants to give him a multi-year deal for more than $5m total?

  28. Eternal OptiKnist

    He seems to be pretty well regarded around the league as a versatile defender and good locker room guy, just seems like he’d chase a championship at this point. A one-year with the Knicks doesnt seem like the roadmap to that..plus you always run the risk of being traded on this roster.

  29. Eternal OptiKnist

    Anyone annoyed that STAT stayed in Fl an extra week? I get the sense that he felt slighted when no one would join him in Florida for pre-camp workouts.

  30. Jafa

    Eternal OptiKnist:
    Anyone annoyed that STAT stayed in Fl an extra week?I get the sense that he felt slighted when no one would join him in Florida for pre-camp workouts.

    Nope. STAT knows this system inside out. The other guys (Melo, Chauncey, the rookies) need to be in the gym talking with the coaches and learning SSOL.

  31. Jafa

    On Grant Hill,

    I don’t think he’s coming to NY. If he really wants to leave Phoenix to chase a ring this year, Miami and Chicago are better alternatives than New York right now.

  32. Ben R

    Grant Hill would be great, but he doesn’t fill a need. We have Shumpert and Fields at the 2, plus spot minutes from Douglas and Walker and Shawne plus spot minutes from Fields backing up the 3.

    We need more size. If we don’t bring in someone that is a natural 4/5 (Shawne and Jeffries are both natural 3′s) we are going to be in trouble. We don’t have a single true PF to back up Amare and at the C we have Turiaf who I think injured himself at breakfast this morning and two 2nd rounders with zero NBA experience.

    We need to do things like bring back Sheldon, and chase guys like Humpries (probably too expensive), McRoberts, Powe, Brandon Wright, maybe even take a flyer on Yi. But we need size. Especially size with a jumper. I know these aren’t sexy names but many of these guys might be availiable for one year at the full MLE and the promise of playing time over a 2-3 year deal at half that.

  33. art vandelay

    Not to rehash a horrible moment, but I remember vividly the jeffries atrocious pass attempt in game 2 and, honestly, had he even attempted to shoot it, which clearly he should have, I would have given the ball about a 15-20% chance of going in over an extended KG. It wasn’t as if the shot was a gimme, or even close to as putrid as Charles Smith in game 5 of ECF in ’93. KG closed the lane pretty quickly and we know how jeffries is notrious for being horrendous at finishing around the rim….routinely blows layups in meaningless games 10 times easier than that short shot would have been….not defending jeffries for passing up the shot, especially since he had surprisingly hit a layup on the prior play, but just an observation that had he taken that shot, it was FAR from a sure thing.

  34. Eternal OptiKnist

    BigBlueAL: You are chanting for the wrong Knick superstar to be traded for Howard.

    Don’t get me wrong, as much as i think Melo is a douche and love Amare, I’d rather trade Amare but that’d never happen with his injury history..especially finding out some of the amnesty details yesterday. You can only amnesty a player currently on your roster..if you recieve a player in a trade this year you cannot amnesty him.

  35. art vandelay

    Apparently Berman was not the only beat writer/blogger to forget how things went down for Jared Jeffries in game 2 of the round 1 series vs. Boston.

    ESPN New York Knicks Blog:
    “While the fans’ last memory of Jeffries was his layup rejected by Kevin Garnett in the final seconds of Game 2, as the Celtics went on to sweep the Knicks in the 2011 playoffs, the coaching staff must value the plus side — literally — that Jeffries delivers to the team.”

  36. Spree8nyk8

    Eternal OptiKnist: Don’t get me wrong, as much as i think Melo is a douche and love Amare, I’d rather trade Amare but that’d never happen with his injury history..especially finding out some of the amnesty details yesterday.You can only amnesty a player currently on your roster..if you recieve a player in a trade this year you cannot amnesty him.

    Amar’e would be the best player Orlando will receive in any Howard trade. He is the right choice. Howard/Melo > Amare/Howard

  37. Spree8nyk8

    I also find it really hard to call someone a douche for angling his way to the Knicks. I don’t think it’s a big deal that he wanted his extension prior to entering into a new CBA, nobody had any idea how that was going to end up with the new CBA. Suppose they lost the season and came out with a new max salary of 11m (which last year at this time was a notion). What then? You really think he should give up THAT much just to come here? I 100% believe that if Amar’e/Paul/Melo were all coming here at the same time like the Miami boys they would have taken less to do it. But I don’t expect one guy to volunteer to take less money by himself on the hope alone that it might work out that way. You can’t blame Melo for the Knicks management giving up too much for him. You have to put that on management. Melo already takes an incredible amount of flack for simply saying “this is where I wanna go”. Now you think he should have also dictated the personnel involved as well as taking less money? He’s a basketball player, not the dali lama.

  38. Spree8nyk8

    Also as far as a team worried about STAT’s health I think that’s overblown.

    His knee injury was in 2005 since then he’s had 4 seasons where he missed a whopping 8 games, and one season where he missed 29 games due to an eye injury for which he wears eye protection now. So I doubt anyone is really worried about the eye, and the guy missed 5 games since 2005 other than the eye. He played 82, 79, 82, and 78 (and i think the Knicks rested him a few games at the end of the year). I don’t think you are gonna find too many players healthier than that.

  39. Frank

    @44 – I’d love to agree with you re: STAT’s knee but the fact that it was uninsurable means that people whose job it is to know about this stuff don’t trust it. They certainly know that he’s been very durable since 2006.

    My worry with Amare is that more than anyone else on the team, he relies on his ridiculous athleticism, and if that goes because of a leg/knee issue, he’ll be pretty useless. He doesn’t have a go-to post move, and although his jumper is improving, it’s certainly a shot that most teams would rather have him take than get in the lane. That’s not even talking about what his D would be like if he wasn’t as athletic as he is.

    Call me crazy but I want Amare to put up 1 or 2 3-pointers each game. I know he only shot 23 of them last year, but he did hit 10 of them. If he can be a legit threat to shoot from there, it’ll open up all kinds of other driving options for him, and considering the spacing you’d get from that, Carmelo as well.

  40. Will the Thrill

    I was also hoping Amar’e would increase his three-point field goal attempts last season. His form is so fluent even from out there, and he was consistently hitting shots from two steps in from the line all season long. Not only that, but he was basically unguarded when he would catch the ball at the top of the key, looking to pass it to a guard and roll to the basket.

  41. Eternal OptiKnist

    Spree8nyk8:
    I also find it really hard to call someone a douche for angling his way to the Knicks.I don’t think it’s a big deal that he wanted his extension prior to entering into a new CBA, nobody had any idea how that was going to end up with the new CBA..

    Don’t misunderstand me, I think he’s a phenominal talent and deserves as much money as he can get. What I’m saying is that he had the opportunity to get the extension, the knicks AND not have the team gutted. He overplayed his hand and gave away ALL his and donnie’s leverage, by telling anyone who would listen how afraid he was of the CBA. If he just intimated that he didn’t care about it, Denver would have done the deal for whatever they could get because they would have believed they would have lost him for nothing. He just comes off to me as someone who is not very smart but thinks he is. At the end of the day though, I’m glad we have him..he’s a superstar that I believe will produce and as we’re talking about is an asset that we could trade for a lot if we were so inclined (and should if it meant DH12). I don’t want to come off as a whiner, but after the last 10 years of real suffering I think we deserve more than perennial first/2nd round playoff exits, if there is an opportunity to really contend. Having pieces left from the melo trade would help us aquire another piece to contend. That point being moot, I think if dwight would sign here, we should flip one of our stars for him and sign CP3 or another guard after this season..we will have cap..not max cap, but big cap. Now that is a championship team

  42. art vandelay

    I didn’t follow this blog pre-summer of 2010….don’t even know if it existed during that period of time or now….but the level of pessimism on here is astounding…clearly the team has some substantial holes, but I think we are inarguably in a MUCH better place than we could ever have imagined just a few years ago with significant room to improve…at the very least I think this team will be contending for championships in the next year or two….I can’t imagine what it was like on here during the dark ages (i.e. Layden-Isiah circa 2002-2008).

  43. The Formerly-Congenial Cock Jowles, #1 Gentleman

    art vandelay:
    I didn’t follow this blog pre-summer of 2010….don’t even know if it existed during that period of time or now….but the level of pessimism on here is astounding…clearly the team has some substantial holes, but I think we are inarguably in a MUCH better place than we could ever have imagined just a few years ago with significant room to improve…at the very least I think this team will be contending for championships in the next year or two….I can’t imagine what it was like on here during the dark ages (i.e. Layden-Isiah circa 2002-2008).

    Knicks can’t even trade first rounders until 2016 or ’17. They’ll be maxed out unless they cut their aging, bad-kneed, needs-an-all-star-point-guard PF or their shoot-first, think-later, middle-of-the-road-in-everything but-usage-and-percentage-of-acrobatic-shots SF. They’ll probably trade away the rest of their bargain/steal rookie contract players. Without Howard or Paul they’re going to be stuck at 45 wins until 2014, and even then they might be in a deeper hole than they are now. There’s not a lot to be overly optimistic about. What’s the best case scenario? That Carmelo has a torrid streak during one playoff round and they get swept in the second?

  44. Z-man

    @49
    Best case scenario: Billups is good for anothr year or 2, Shumpert is Dwyane Wade 2.0, Carmelo posts a WS48 of .250, Jorts is Kendrick Perkins in vanilla, and Fields is the player you predicted he would be.

    On another note, I really hope we don’t go all out for Paul. He is just not a great match for this team. I think his defense is overrated and he will meet the same fate as the two playere he reminds me the most of: Steve Nash and John Stocton. Being small at both the 1 and the 5 is not a winning formula. I would much rather put our remaining cap space to plug the gaping hole at the 5 and take my chances with the PG spot.

    Another thing, remember when Paul went down in 2009-10 and rookie Darren Collison had to step in? Here are Collison’s stats as a starter compared to Paul:

    Darren Collison 18.8pts 3.8rebs 9.1assts
    Chris Paul 18.7pts 4.2rebs 10.7assts
    Collison shot a higher % from 3 and from FT line.

  45. ess-dog

    It would be really interesting if we signed Grant Hill. You would think with a one year deal, he was getting a promise to start, or at the very least, play a whole lot. He’s clearly a 2 or a 3.
    So at guard with him we’d have: Billups, Douglas, Shumpert, Hill, Fields, Walker, Rautins.
    Fields and Walker (and Hill) are both 3′s as well, but Melo will take most of those minutes.
    So at the very least this would say that Shumpert will have to work for his minutes and surpass either TD or Fields. Maybe someone gets sent out in a trade?
    And also if we use our midlevel on Grant, does that mean we aren’t grabbing help at center? That could mean a lot of minutes for Amare at center, that is, if we do end up getting Shawne back. Or else, a lot of Jeffries and Turiaf.
    The delay on bringing Jordan over from Serbia is also pretty disconcerting. Jorts will not contribute right away so that leaves Amare, Jeffries, Turiaf and maybe Shawne and/or Jordan to man the 4 and 5. Is D’Antoni really going to roll with that?

  46. Spree8nyk8

    art vandelay:
    I didn’t follow this blog pre-summer of 2010….don’t even know if it existed during that period of time or now….but the level of pessimism on here is astounding…clearly the team has some substantial holes, but I think we are inarguably in a MUCH better place than we could ever have imagined just a few years ago with significant room to improve…at the very least I think this team will be contending for championships in the next year or two….I can’t imagine what it was like on here during the dark ages (i.e. Layden-Isiah circa 2002-2008).

    You are never going to convince the diehards of this board that there is ever gonna be anything better than a partly cloudy day. I mean the post after yours Cock posts about our injury riddled PF, the same guy that has only missed 8 games since 2006 (3 of them being playoff rest) aside from one season which he had a freak eye injury. I mean 8 games in all of that time. He is healthy. Also no matter how good Carmelo performs here it will never be good enough for them. So just keep optimism to a low here because it’s wasted here. But, I do feel what your saying and I am nothing but optimistic about this team.

  47. Ben R

    So what would you guys think about signing McRoberts. He’s 24, 6’10″, has 3 pt range, and shot a TS% of over 60% last year in over 1500 minutes while averaging 12 pts and 8.6 rebs per 36.

    He’s looking to leave Indiana and no other team can offer him both major minutes and the chance to win. He could possibly start here and would get a lot of minutes with our lack of size. That and a big one year contract might be enough to get him to forgo a longer deal.

  48. Spree8nyk8

    The Formerly-Congenial Cock Jowles, #1 Gentleman: . There’s not a lot to be overly optimistic about. What’s the best case scenario? That Carmelo has a torrid streak during one playoff round and they get swept in the second?

    Honestly dude, why are you even a fan? Why don’t you just pull for a team that fits your needs better? I don’t mean this to belittle you btw, it’s a serious question. If I completely hated everything about my team in every fashion or form I just wouldn’t be a fan. So why are you?

  49. Ben R

    Spree8nyk8: Honestly dude, why are you even a fan? Why don’t you just pull for a team that fits your needs better? I don’t mean this to belittle you btw, it’s a serious question. If I completely hated everything about my team in every fashion or form I just wouldn’t be a fan. So why are you?

    I am a huge Knicks fan and I don’t particually like our team right now. If it were possible to simply change teams like your suggesting Jowles should do I would have switched teams 10 years ago. I will keep watching and keep rooting even though I don’t like Melo, he is very good though, and think Amare is highly overrated and fairly limited.

    I was deeply saddened by the trade last year and think we will struggle for the next couple years because of it. With that said I hope I am wrong and I hope the Knicks win a championship this year and I will keep watching and keep hoping regardless.

  50. Spree8nyk8

    I mean this simply needs to be said, we did not lose a single player last year that wasn’t easily replaceable. Not one.

  51. Spree8nyk8

    I mean we are 0-0 heading into a new season with 2 stars, a pretty good pg, interesting pair of rookies, a standout second year player. We also have an outside shot at a 3rd star, and if that doesn’t happen we have about 13m dollars worth of spending money next year. What is there to not be optimistic about?

  52. John Kenney

    Amar’e should definitely shoot more 3′s. could really help his TS%. He’s solid from out there. I believe in it.

  53. Ben R

    Spree8nyk8:
    I mean we are 0-0 heading into a new season with 2 stars, a pretty good pg, interesting pair of rookies, a standout second year player.We also have an outside shot at a 3rd star, and if that doesn’t happen we have about 13m dollars worth of spending money next year.What is there to not be optimistic about?

    Amare and Melo have not shown that they can play well together, Melo is an indifferent defender, Amare is a bad one, and we only have two bigmen with NBA experience on the entire roster and one of them can’t stay healthy and neither of them are particually good rebounders. Our pretty good PG is 35 and hasn’t been a good defender since Bush was in office, one of our interesting rookies could barely get on the court for Kentucky before his senior season and the other one shot so many bad shots last year he made Jamal Crawford look disciplined. Our standout second year player couldn’t play at all with Melo and with our 13 million in cap space we need a starting PG and a starting C if we want any chance to compete against the top teams in the East.

    I am not actually this pessimistic but as you can see there is a lot to be nervous about.

  54. Spree8nyk8

    Your talking about an incredibly small sample size swapping out half the team midseason and they still played well considering. Landry will figure it out. I’m not worried.

  55. Eternal OptiKnist

    I think those of us who have some concerns are being mischaracterized as pessimists. NBA success comes in waves..you’re good for 10 years and then you suck..happens to every team. We’ve had more than our share of sucking this decade and now its our time to be good and we want to make sure of is that we take the opportunity to contend and not waste it being mediocre. I’m more excited about this team than i’ve been in a loooooong time..i think most of us are. What you’re seeing now is people actually having expectations of success..not actual pessimism :) I have to say, i freakin’ love this site..nice to interact with Knick fans. This is my first day posting and im glad i did.

  56. Spree8nyk8

    No that what you just said was not pessimistic, and I wasn’t really pointing that at you, it was at cock jowles, and I know he is a fan. I’m sure of it. But, I haven’t heard the guy say one positive thing about the team in 3 years. And I’m sorry but if you were here posting during the david lee years, and you still don’t have one positive thing to say. I mean I just think that’s strange.

  57. mikeplugh

    If you can’t be (even a little) optimistic at the start of the season (especially one that was almost lost) you probably have issues besides basketball that are dragging you down. It’s okay to be “realistic” but there are times for renewal and hope and if you can’t let yourself be swept up in them a bit, it’s hard for me to imagine you experiencing real joy of any kind.

    Amare has flaws. He and Melo didn’t always work well together. Billups is old. D’Antoni doesn’t coach defense. We have no center. We suck at rebounding…..go talk to New Orleans or Milwaukee or Charlotte or Seattle and see if any of them would like to trade places with us.

    I’m amped up about the season. Let’s get the Garden rockin’.

  58. Eternal OptiKnist

    It is finally nice to have a) hope and b) options, its been a long time coming for us. On another note, it looks like NBA players in China will be let loose for some cash.

  59. art vandelay

    cp3 won’t sign an extension with clippers or warriors….it is obvious he only wants to come to NYK or Lakers…remember a few years ago when Lebron wouldn’t even think of the Knicks because they were carrying the Isiah stench and no one even wanted to even touch the franchise……the fact that STAT , then Melo, and now Cp3 wants to wear the uniform I think we should take as a MAJOR gain…for 8 years no one wanted to touch the franchise and now again we are attracting free agents…no one seems to accept this as a major positive…..

  60. Frank

    Ben R:
    I am not actually this pessimistic but as you can see there is a lot to be nervous about.

    I know you’re just playing devil’s advocate, trying to defend THCJ for some reason, but truth is, this will be the best team we have fielded for years (not saying much I know). Surprising that Ted Nelson hasn’t weighed in yet, but the truth is, past performance does not necessarily predict future performance on either the offensive or defensive end. Yes – players TEND not to change much, but our very own coach has a history of turning average players into very very good players, at least on the offensive end, who regress as soon as they leave. He’s been a relatively unimpressive coach here, but he has had, what, 80 players come through in 3 years and zero continuity. Especially on defense, unless you happen to be Tom Thibodeau and have Noah and Gibson or Perkins and Garnett on your front line, it takes time to develop chemistry/trust etc.

    Look – THCJ is (unfortunately) probably right. The team as currently constructed is not as good as Miami, Chicago, LA, Dallas, or OKC. Are we winning a championship this year? Probably not. It remains to be seen whether San Antonio and Boston can maintain their high level of play especially in a compressed season since their average age is like 60. But (ESPECIALLY if we can land Grant Hill somehow), I think we are in the next group with SA, Boston, Orlando, maybe Portland, even if no breaks fall unexpectedly fall our way.

    Which breaks COULD fall our way? Grant Hill could sign here (I sure wish someone more reliable than Berman was reporting this). Shumpert could be the real deal defensively, and would be more efficient offensively as a 4th option. Turiaf could play 25 min/game without injuring himself, thereby minimizing JJ time at the 5. Woodson could make us AVERAGE defensively. These are not pipe dreams.

  61. Eternal OptiKnist

    Agreed. We owe a huge debt of gratitude to Donnie Walsh for that. And Amare Stoudemire for being the goods. I mean you look at what he did in the 1st half of the season..you tell me who was better. I really lament losing Donnie.

  62. d-mar

    @66 I agree, I really hope Berman is right about Grant Hill, whether you’re a pessimist or an optimist, that would be a great pickup. But since it is Berman, I won’t hold my breath, he probably heard Tyrone Hill is coming out of retirement to play for NY (-:

  63. TDM

    Shane Battier just announced he is signing with the Heat. He probably wouldn’t have taken a 1 yr deal, but I think I’d rather have him than G Hill.

  64. Scorpio Dragon

    That’s a significant get for the Heat.

    TDM:
    Shane Battier just announced he is signing with the Heat.He probably wouldn’t have taken a 1 yr deal, but I think I’d rather have him than G Hill.

  65. TDM

    Also, the Spurs have amnestied Richard Jefferson. I’m not certain how that works, but if a team puts in a bid for him, does it have to be for the duration of the deal being taken off the books? He had 3 yrs / 30 M left on his deal.

    Don’t think I’d take RJ over Hill, since Hill is a better locker room guy, but wouldn’t be a horrible alternative if the Hill deal falls through, assuming the Knicks didn’t have to sign him for 3 years.

  66. Frank

    @71 – RJ will get picked up by one of the below-cap teams on secondary waivers. He wouldn’t be bad though.

  67. Brian Cronin (@Brian_Cronin)

    Have they even figured out the rules for secondary waivers yet? If one team says, “We’ll pay him $9 million for 1 year” does that beat a team that says “We’ll pay him $11 million for 2 years”?

  68. art vandelay

    From what I have read I gather that it is a blind auction in which cap teams (those under the salary cap) bid on amnestied players….the bid is a certain dollar figure per year for the duration of the remaining contract…meaning in Jefferson’s case, he has approx. $30.5 Million remaining over 3 years….so teams bid on how much they are willing to pay him per year for those remaining 3 years…I assume really it is a bid for the first year, since thereafter the contract is set based on the 4.5% or 7.5% raises built into the new CBA.

  69. art vandelay

    @ 73…

    I am assuming that the highest bid in year 1 would win, but I don’t know that for sure…good question.

  70. Z-man

    Scorpio Dragon: That’s a significant get for the Heat.

    Agreed, but does he really fill any void for the Heat? Their issues are at the 1 and the 5. Although they could move LeBron to the 1 and play Battier at the 3… uh-oh!

  71. Scorpio Dragon

    Z-man: Agreed, but does he really fill any void for the Heat? Their issues are at the 1 and the 5. Although they could move LeBron to the 1 and play Battier at the 3… uh-oh!

    Yeah that.

    But, I’m looking at it more like a Ron Harper deal during the second Bulls run. Shane just happens to fill the Kerr/Harper role very well. Neither one of those guys really handled the ball. But Kerr could shoot the three and Harper could defend the second hardest backcourt matchup. Pippen likely defended the first.

    Battier can defend the guys that give LeBron fits on defense (like Melo) freeing LeBron to not have to work as hard on defense.

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