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Wednesday, April 23, 2014

Knicks 2010 Summer League Roster

Due to the Knicks involvement with NBA free agency, it’s unclear how many roster spots are open. Chandler, Curry, Douglas, Gallo, Walker and Stoudemire along with recently acquired Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf and Kelenna Azubuike make 9. If you add their draft picks Fields, Rautins, and Jordan that makes 12. Potentially the team might sign a few more free agents and could still bring back Barron, Bender, Giddens, or House. That doesn’t make for a lot of roster spots open. But enough that a few guys could make the team.

Already On the Roster

Toney Douglas, PG – Last year his summer league shooting was awful, but that turned out fine during the regular season. The big question for this year is can he run the offense? We know D’Antoni’s distaste for combo guards masquerading as point guards, and truthfully he could have done better setting up his teammates. This is a bit more critical now with the addition of Stoudemire, since he is so dangerous in the pick & roll.

Bill Walker, GF – A good NBA player should find success in the summer league, and that’s what I expect from Walker. But more important than just scoring is that Walker rounds out his game. He needs to rebound more and play better defense. If he becomes a more complete player he could challenge for a starting spot, either by pushing Chandler to the bench or by forcing D’Antoni to go small with Amar’e at center.

Drafted, But Not Guaranteed

Landry Fields, SF – Reading his scouting report, I’m most excited to see Fields. NBADraft.Net has 192 words on his strengths and only 50 on his weaknesses. He’s got a great vertical leap (39′), but is a bit on the skinny side. The most important signs are how his defense, rebounding, and ability to get to the free throw line translate at this level. If he does make the Knicks roster, his three point shooting and free throw percentage have to improve.

Andy Rautins, SG – Rautins’ value lies in his shooting, so it’s important to note how he scores. Other than just hitting open threes, what else can he do? Will he be able to beat his man off the dribble? How much separation does he need to get his shot off? But his scoring isn’t the only concern. Is he too undersized/nonathletic to play the shooting guard? How bad is his propensity to make the “too cute” pass? Rautins played a lot of zone in college, so it’ll be interesting to see how he fares in man to man.

Jerome Jordan, C – I can’t say how many times I’ve attempted to type his name & ended up with Jerome James. Like Big Snacks, Jordan didn’t start playing basketball until later in life, which means he’s not as well rounded as you’d like. Jordan is a good rebounder & decent shot blocker. He’s a 7-footer who doesn’t like to bang in the lane, and often prefers to settle for a jump shot. However if he didn’t have a few holes in his game, he wouldn’t have been available in the second round for the Knicks. One last caveat, I don’t see him on the official roster. Possibly that’s due to Jordan having to wait for the trade to clear before he officially became a Knick.

Some Spots Still Open

Chris Hunter, C – The Knicks signed Hunter last year, but he never suited up for the team. Instead he played 60 games for the Warriors and for a 6-11 reserve did fairly well. He managed a TS% of 54.6%, although his production was meager (12.4 pts/36). Additionally Hunter blocked shots at an average rate (1.6 blk/36). Rebounding is likely to be a sore spot with the Knicks this year, and unfortunately this is an area that Hunter struggles with (7.7 reb/36). If New York isn’t enamored with Jordan, Hunter could slip past him and earn a spot. But it’s possible that neither make the team considering the team’s current depth.

Jaycee Carroll, SG – If Andy Rautins has a bad summer league and is sent packing, he can ask Jaycee Carroll for career advice. Like Rautins, Carroll is a nonathletic undersized lights-out shooter. Carroll currently plays for Gran Canaria in the Spanish league. I doubt two shooting specialists make the roster, so if Carroll impresses the staff then Rautins could find himself playing in the Canary Islands.

Slim Chance

Warren Carter, PF – Interestingly enough, Carter actually made the roster last year, but was cut before the season started. A good transition player, who struggles in the half court. Carter can rebound on the offensive glass, but his defensive rebounding numbers are a bit weak. His dribble is a little shaky, and his post up game needs work. Carter’s best bet to make the team would be to play good defense and run the floor.

Marcus Landry, GF – Despite having a successful older brother in the NBA, it’s still not clear how Marcus would fare. He’s played 13 games in the D-League and 18 in the pros nearly all in garbage time. D’Antoni seemed extremely reluctant to use him last year, so why bring him back to waste a roster spot this year?

Charles Garcia, PF – There seems to be a little buzz around him, but he has a few things that raise red flags: high turnovers, sub-par passer, and forces up low-percentage outside shots. Sounds like a player Isiah Thomas would drool over.

Carlos Powell, F – Had 2 stints in the D-League. Powell seems to be a scorer first and second, albeit his assist numbers aren’t awful. My guess is that he’s the kind of player that likes to have the ball in his hands at all times. His peripheral numbers aren’t that great, especially his rebounding, for a 6-7 forward.

Patrick Ewing, Jr, F – Also played for the Orlando Magic’s summer league team this year, and was about average. A strong rebounder in the D-League, with decent peripheral numbers. If Ewing could knock down the three consistently, he’d improve his chances to make an NBA roster. But he managed only 23.5% from downtown, so he has some ways to go.

Leo Lyons, PF – A great scorer that lives at the free throw line, but can’t play a lick of defense. Draft Express said of him:

On the defensive end, Lyons has had many well-documented issues prior to this season, and while he’s made some strides, many of them still remain. On the positive side, Lyons’ attentiveness and activity level as a perimeter defender is definitely improved this season, however he’s still inconsistent in doing some of the little things–giving up too much space to shooters, not putting in the effort laterally, and not staying in a fundamental stance. It is worth noting that during Missouri’s NCAA tournament run, however, most of these problems were hardly evident at all, as Lyons looked like a different player on the perimeter, playing excellent fundamental defense, moving his feet well, aggressively hedging pick-and-rolls, and really showing what he’s capable of. On the negative side, Lyons’ post defense and boxing out on the glass has not been impressive all season, as he shows little grasp of leverage, doesn’t fight hard for position, and just is not very effective defending in the painted area.

Ryan Wittman, SF – Add Wittman to the list of outside shooters with weak athleticism. And then there’s this cute web page on him.

32 comments on “Knicks 2010 Summer League Roster

  1. Z-man

    A couple of blog posts, including on from Hahn, said that Jerome Jordan is expected to be added; I also read that Hunter will not play (declined offer.)

  2. Frank

    Im not so down on the impending felton signing. If you read his draftexpress profile, he looks like an ideal SSOL pg especially if you believe his 3pt shooting from last year. And he plays defense. I hope they arent giving him any more than 8M/year though. We should try and maintain a max spot for carmelo etc if possible.

  3. taggart4800

    @3
    I live in charlotte and get to see him a lot. It looks as though part of his problem is that he is uncomfortable reining in his game. He has spurts where he can take over a game and then looks lost for periods. I am not for one moment suggesting he is CP3 but i think those who get to see him live for the Knicks will be pleasantly surprised. When his stroke isn’t on he has the odd tendancy of trying to find it rather than shutting it down until he feels more comfortable. But he is super quick and athletic and excecutes on some really rather amazing plays.

  4. Ted Nelson

    Great analysis, Mike. Interesting how few open roster spots there may end up being after the Lee deal. Not what I expected.

    Word is Knicks like Rautins as a PG, no? I think he can *potentially* be a good NBA PG. Good size. His agility score at combine was better than Terrico White and close to Willie Warren and Armon Johnson. Significantly better than Avery Bradley. Significantly worse than Wall or Dominique Jones. Led Cuse in apg, splitting playmaking with a good college PG in Scoop Jardine. I’m sure D’Antoni see’s Nash 2.0. Senior numbers not *that* much different from Steve Nash. Very similar to Ridnour’s junior season. Similar to Derek Fisher as well as to Mike Bibby’s freshman #s. Better than Duhon. One year wonder, though.

    Does seem unlikely Rautins and Douglas and Carroll all make it… Carroll could force his way onto the roster based on the way he played in Spain (led the league in PPG) and Rautins maybe gets a pass to some extent since he’s learning a new position and everyone knows he can shoot (like Douglas last season).

    I bet the Knicks give Jordan a chance, unless he’s truly awful/uncommitted.

    I don’t know how many minutes they’d get behind Douglas and Rautins (and maybe Carroll), but would be nice to take a flyer on a “true” PG to get a look in practice since that’s the Knicks most glaring hole in their roster… maybe find a hidden gem.

    As much as I like Landry I agree he’s going to have a very hard time making the roster with all the shooters and athletes the Knicks have on the wings.

  5. David Crockett

    Of the guys in the slim chance category, I’ll be rooting for Leo Lyons to get a shot — even if it’s not with the Knicks.

    I watched a TON of Lyons in college, where he was, to say the least, mercurial. Affectionately known among the Mizzou faithful as “Good Leo/Bad Leo” he was a recruiting coup for former coach Quin Snyder who surprisingly stole him away from Kentucky. Rumor was that Lyons’ mother made him attend Missouri because it was closer to Kansas City.

    His freshman season was virtually a disaster. He was a non-factor and the program itself was nearly engulfed in controversy. Exit Quin and enter Mike Anderson, disciple of Nolan Richardson’s 40 Minutes of Hell, preaching defense, defense, defense, passing, and defense. It would be wildly inaccurate to say that Leo changed overnight, but it was a textbook case of an immature kid who had never really been pushed or coached finding the right person at the right time. The talent had always been there, but the focus… my gosh. What focus? Lyons was an ADD poster boy, but Anderson kept pushing; stroking and punishing where appropriate. He wasn’t giving up on Lyons, and there was no way he would let Lyons give up on himself either. Down the stretch of Lyons’ senior year you could see the light come on, and kid figure out how to just get out of his own way enough to let his talent shine through. The light had finally come on.

    Bill C at Rock M Nation sums it up best in his preview originally posted the morning of Missouri’s 2009 Sweet Sixteen shocker over Memphis:

    “And then there’s Leo. Four months ago, Leo Lyons was an enigmatic, moody, rather schizophrenic player who could be amazing one moment and pouting on the bench for most of a game the next. Now, he’s Good Leo, an enigmatic, moody, rather schizophrenic player who has been amazing for most of his only NCAA Tournament, who never turned his brain off after getting pushed and hacked for a good portion of the second half against Marquette, and who persevered in the form of a clutch 3-point play and three big-time free throws in the last minute. Against heavy odds, Leo will end up being remembered for his play down the stretch of his senior season* instead of the suspensions and frustrating tendencies of his first 3.5 seasons.”

    Everything you read in the DraftExpress scouting report is true. He didn’t defend, but once he began to it was evident that he was pretty solid. As I watched this kid I thought, “It takes some kids a little longer for the light to come on. Damn. I wish he had one more year with Coach Anderson.” You could see the difference in polish between DeMarre Carroll (1st round Memphis pick, Lyons’ teammate at Mizzou, and nephew of Coach Anderson) and Lyons, despite the latter’s clear talent advantage.

    Year one in Jerusalem he didn’t shoot worth a damn, but I anticipate a better showing in summer league. I think he’s an intriguing fit for D’Antoni and hope he plays well. With Hunter declining an offer to play I hope that opens up some space for Lyons.

  6. taggart4800

    Good to hear about Lyons. Lets hope he does put in a good showing and the Knicks focus brings his game on even further

  7. Conor

    As a Syracuse fan who watched all of his games, I find it impossible to believe Andy Rautins will be an NBA PG. He didn’t play PG in college. He does get some assists, but thats because he goes for a lot of risky passes. I could be wrong, of course, but I think there is no chance of it. His ball handling is nowhere near the level I’d think you need to be an NBA PG.

  8. nicos

    Thanks for the rundown Mike- I think you’re right on the money with Walker- I could see him starting or piling up DNPs depending on whether he can offer anything besides scoring.
    I wish we had a legitimate P & R partner for TD on the summer league squad (though for summer league play Walker might actually be okay and maybe Jordan could fit the bill but I do wish Randolph was playing)- I want TD running the P & R constantly between now and the start of the season. Other than that, I think Rautins and possibly Carroll have the best chance to actually get some minutes in the regular season so I’ll be watching them pretty closely. With so many threes on the roster I have a tough time seeing Fields getting much playing time even if he does make the team; same goes for Garcia, though given his size and athleticism he’s worth keeping an eye on.

    As for Felton- could be Chris Duhon part 2 with a much bigger and longer contract. Felton is a better defender and a better playmaker- he’s managed a career assist % of 31.2 (solid but unspectacular) while playing on some pretty bad offensive teams so you could make the argument that he might improve that to a very solid 35-38 with better shot makers around him. Of course you could also argue that having a point guard whose career TS is .493 is reason #1 for why the Charlotte offense has been so poor. I will say having a guard have a career shooting year in a contract year is less of a red flag than a big guy putting up big rebound/effort numbers but it’s still worrisome. And even if he keeps up last year’s shooting numbers, he’s still probably going to wind up overpaid. Still, is it worth taking the risk on TD knowing that if he doesn’t come through you’re also in all likelihood not getting nearly what you could out of Amar’e?

  9. TDM

    Personally, I’m hoping the Knicks bring Barron back into the fold and that he continues to perform well. I still think we could see another move/signing before the season to bring in a starting C – maybe Ben Wallace, Brad Miller (sorry, Abbey), . . .. If Pryzbilla and Oden are healthy, any chance Camby could be available? Can the Knicks afford him at $9M per?

  10. Robert Silverman

    Interesting thought from the Sports Guy

    51. Raymond Felton
    The guy I’d pursue this summer if I ran an NBA team. Ten weeks of trade rumors bounced off him and he never held a grudge. He has lottery pick pedigree (fifth overall in 2005), and if we’ve learned anything over the years, it’s that many blue-chip point guards take awhile to “ferment” (for lack of a better word). He’s one of the five or six best people in the league by all accounts. I’ve never seen a Bobcats game where he didn’t play as hard as he could. The arc of his first four years looks exactly like Chauncey Billups, and like Chauncey, his game will open up once he starts making 3s. Just a lot to like. Someone will steal him this summer just like Detroit stole Billups in 2002. You watch.

  11. BigBlueAL

    Yahoo reporting:

    Felton’s agent Tony Dutt says client has agreed in principle to sign with NYK. Contract won’t be longer than 3 yrs & still being worked on.

  12. Ted Nelson

    As a disclaimer, I can’t stand Simmons. He’s not *totally* off on Billups, but I have to wonder what stats he’s looking at. Felton may have actually been a better player his first 4 years than Billups, but they’re not particularly comparable.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=billuch01&y1=2001&p2=feltora01&y2=2009

    Felton was a horribly inefficient scorer his first 4 years. Billups is also a major outlier. I really doubt many players improve as much as he did as late as he did.

  13. Spree8nyk8

    Hey Taggart, what’s up I live in Fort Mill, we should go to the game when the Knicks come to Charlotte!

  14. David Crockett

    @17

    Holla atcha boy down here in Columbia when you go.

    A 3 year deal I’d be hard-pressed to get down about. We’ll put two quality defensive guards on the floor, and one who can really push it. The danger with Felton was giving him the full MLE at 5 years. At 3 years, even at the full MLE (in this market) I won’t go crazy.

    But let’s wait to see the numbers.

  15. nicos

    3 years at 7 per? I’m surprised someone didn’t give him more. Charlotte gave Tyrus Thomas 8 per for 5 years so I’m surprised they didn’t offer Felton at least that. Maybe they did and Felton was just tired of Larry Brown and decided to go elsewhere. Hopefully, not a disaster- it’s a contract pretty much in line with his production (esp. last year) so it should be fairly movable if he’s a bad fit. On the plus side, against teams with smaller backcourts I think he and TD would work well together on both ends. Also, in trying to find a silver lining over at 82games I did notice that he took a pretty high percentage of shots (42%) late in the clock and was truly awful- .404 eFg. Early in the clock however, he was much better- 0-10 secs .566 (which you’d expect as most of those would have been on the break) more heartening, he was .548 eFg at 11-15 seconds which is where (you’d hope at least) he should be taking the bulk of his shots in D’Antoni’s system. Hopefully, cutting down on forced shots and continuing the big jump he made between 2009 and 2010 in his finishing ability and he could be a very solid pick-up but if he regresses at all, trouble.

  16. BigBlueAL

    Hollinger just wrote his piece on the Lee trade, it is Insider so I will just paste what he wrote rather than link it (it is quite long though):

    Deals between wayward franchises are always interesting because of the tantalizing prospect that one of them might actually win a trade. As a result, Thursday’s sign-and-trade deal between the Knicks and Warriors raised hopes in both sides. The terms sent David Lee to Golden State on a six-year, $80 million contract, with the Knicks getting back Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf, Kelenna Azubuike and a 2011 second-round pick.

    In this case, I think it’s the forlorn Warriors who got the short end of the stick. New York executed a perfect backup plan after its effort to get two superstar free agents fell one man short. The Knicks picked up a good young player and two reasonable role players, and basically get a do-over on the free-agent strategy next summer, when Carmelo Anthony (among others) could be on the market.

    Obviously, the drawback is that it costs New York its best player from a season ago, but it’s inconceivable that Lee and Amare Stoudemire could coexist in the same frontcourt, and of the two I’d much rather have Stoudemire — they’re similar offensively but Stoudemire is much better on defense.

    This is damning with faint praise, of course — Stoudemire is mediocre at best as a defender. Lee, however, is just flat-out awful.

    And that’s what makes this deal so baffling for Golden State. Already operating as almost a pure offensive outfit that showed little to no interest in defense (the Warriors were 29th in defensive efficiency a season ago), the Warriors have now committed six years and $80 million to one of the worst frontcourt defenders in the game.

    Additionally, they sent out their two best defensive players in Randolph and Turiaf to complete the deal. Randolph has been inconsistent, but he’s only 20 years old and his PER numbers from his first two seasons show him to already be a solid starter. Both players are accomplished shot-blockers, so between adding those two and losing Lee the Knicks — who ranked 29th and 30th in blocks the past two seasons — should move into the top half of the league in rejections.

    New York now has a nice three-man frontcourt rotation and a potential star in Randolph, and the best part is the Knicks were able to “park” their cap space for a year rather than committing to Lee and taking themselves out of next summer’s market. By replacing Lee with Randolph they’ve filled the spot with a $3 million player (in 2011-12 salary); after the season, Azubuike’s contract expires and Turiaf will likely opt out of his $4.5 million salary to become a free agent too, leaving New York enough room to pursue a maximum-contract player again next summer.

    As for Golden State, there is one piece of its logic that makes perfect sense to me: Lee is going to thrive in pick-and-roll situations with Stephen Curry. Curry is a masterful operator on this play and Lee is among the best dive men in basketball, and I fully expect Golden State’s two-man game to be devastating.

    That said, the Warriors are going to be on the short end of a lot of 130-120 scores, because they don’t have a single frontcourt player who can defend the post or stop opposing penetrators.

    Moreover, trading Randoph for Lee was the latest example of a long-running organizational flaw: Golden State’s tendency to eat its young. Just two years ago the Warriors were heralding Randolph as the steal of the draft, and now he’s a throw-in to get them a “name.”

    If the Warriors can find a real center to play next to Lee and Randolph doesn’t emerge as a star, maybe this will all work out OK in the end. The contract dollars aren’t outrageous in the current market and the Warriors’ cap situation going forward is quite strong.

    Nonetheless, it seems more like the last desperate act of a management team that knows it’s on the way out as soon as owner Chris Cohan completes his sale of the team. The difference in this deal, in a nutshell, is this: The Knicks executed a successful Plan E after Plans A, B, C and D all failed. I’m not sure Golden State has ever had a plan.

  17. BigBlueAL

    Also Ira Winderman has tweeted talking about the Big 3 in Miami looking like in the end will not be sacrificing any money at all:

    Heat putting together major package of picks for James sign-and-trade. Word inside league is Heat is finding a way to keep Udonis Haslem.

    And Bosh deal apparently sends Heat 2011 first-rounder plus pick owed from Toronto back to Raptors. College will become a rumor to Heat.

    After all is said and done, none had to overwhelmingly sacrifice. All will get maximum years, if not maximum starting point.

  18. BigBlueAL

    This Heat celebration crap tonight made me sick, 95% of the people there didnt even know Miami had an NBA team til this week. Plus LeBron talking about winning 6 titles and Wade calling them the best trio ever already.

    Surprised to see JA Adande ripping this thing since he hasnt really been that critical about LeBron during this whole time. Also nice seeing a bunch of players and even coaches/GM basically calling out the Heat and talking trash to them. Dunno if the Big 3 realize what a bullseye they have put on themselves right now. Granted not like they care or are worried much….

  19. Z-man

    3 years, 7 mill is an excellent gamble on Felton. Again, it is nonsense to compare him (one of the fastest PGs in the league) to Duhon (one of the slowest.) He won’t be terrible, and could be really good.

    We have a TEAM next year! I’m psyched!

    Of course, I may have said that last year, but the “ifs” this year are less iffy.

    I hope that Amar’e's forceful offensive game (and Randolph’s?) will rub off on WC and make him go to the hoop with more authority.

    I am interested in seeing Walker in summer league, he has apparently lost 25 lbs and had a little explosiveness to his game even at the higher weight. I can tell you that a friend of mine who’s a diehard Celts fan was pissed that they gave him away in the Nate deal. WC, Gallo, Walker and Az (and Fields?) will be matching up vs. LBJ and Wade, so they better man up quick.

  20. Caleb

    I’m 50-50 on the Felton deal but in the short-term… well, before the trade I pegged the Knicks about 8 games better.. I think this gets us to about .500. That’s the over-under.

    And a first-round playoff date with Miami!

    Seriously, Orlando is my new #2 team right now. And Houston is my arch-enemy. It’s only July 9th and I can’t wait to see everyone lace ‘em up.

  21. BigBlueAL

    Read an article with quotes from Noah, Stephen Jackson, Stan Van Gundy and Magic GM Otis Smith. Forgot where though, sorry I didnt link it like I usually do.

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