Frank O.: You know what I mean by “situational.”

I really don’t.

Frank O.: I said they made key stops, and in some cases those stops were accentuated with 3 pt daggers.

They made key stops by hitting 16 3PAs… The Bulls scored 112 points on 100 possessions. I don’t know what more to say. They would be the 3rd most efficient offense in the NBA this young season if they did that every game. You can’t say, “we won on defense” when you let the other team score that efficiently. The Suns won a lot of games last season, that doesn’t mean their defense was good.

Bulls fans could argue their team played good defense, too. They executed their game plan. They shut down Amare and basically WC too. After Gallo killed them in the first, they took him out of the equation in the 2nd H. They made the rest of the Knicks beat them and they did. They *could* say that, and I’d tell them they were full of shit.

Frank O.: I have not said they are an elite defense.

I have not said they’re not an elite defense. I have said nothing about their defense overall. I have said last night. Last night they let the other team score a lot of points per possession. By definition that is not good defense. Korver might have hit some tough shots, but he also hit some wide open ones. It’s hard to separate defense from shot making, but I can’t fault a radio host for not complementing the defense of a team that gave up 112 pts on 100 possessions. That’s ultimately my point. The Suns got key stops last season as well. Doesn’t mean their defense was good.

Frank O.: This was a pretty high possession game. There were going to be a lot of points scored.  

Seriously? I said POINTS PER POSSESSION. Last night the Bulls had 112 pts in 100 poss. I am accounting for pace. That is 112 pts/100 poss. That would make them 3rd in the NBA behind the undefeated Lakers and Hawks if they did that every night.

:)

You know what I mean by “situational.”

You also know that Korver was hitting some out of his ass 3 pt shots. I specifically remember a fading to his right with a hand in his face 3 that was infuriating.
I loved when someone called him a bitch last night because I was thinking the same.

Indeed, there were defensive breakdowns. But sometimes you have to account for the fact that in the NBA, you have scorers who are going to score.
They will slip defenders or make tough shots, and there’s not much to be done.

I have not said they are an elite defense. I said they made key stops, and in some cases those stops were accentuated with 3 pt daggers.

As much as the Knicks 3 pt shooting helped them win, 12 steals and 5 blocks, and a number of other defensive stops certainly kept the Bulls from scoring more. This was a pretty high possession game. There were going to be a lot of points scored.

Ted Nelson: (and he missed a bunch of long 2s even last night… mostly shots he probably shouldn’t be taking…)

To clarify, I don’t mean 11 FGAs is too much or anything. I mean step back and take a 3 rather than the 5 19-22 footers he took.

Let’s put it this way: there are two offenses in the NBA averaging 112 pts/100 poss… Lakers and Hawks. Both are undefeated. I can’t call letting the other team score that efficiently a good defensive effort.
http://knickerblogger.net/statpage/2011/o_oe.htm

Frank O.: all in all, the Knicks equaled if not bettered the defense intensity of what many believe to be a better team.

Being better than the Bulls defensively last night isn’t saying all that much… All Korver does is shoot the ball and he had a lot of wide open looks. Taj Gibson looked like… I don’t know, the good Amare or something out there. There were stretches where I thought the defense on Rose was good, but there were also stretches where he did what he wanted.

I don’t know what you mean by “situational.” I think good defense is doing everything you possibly can to keep the opponent’s pts/poss as low as possible. I can’t say the Knicks did that when Amare fouled out, WC picked up 5, Taj Gibson and Kyle Korver ran wild, Rose got his and Deng did too…

I’m not saying I don’t like the Knicks’ defense this season. I do. I’m just saying that I don’t think you can say they won on defense last night. Obviously every time you win you played better defense than the opponent. I’m just saying I thought the Knicks could have done a lot more defensively. If nothing else, don’t lose Kyle Korver and keep a hand in his face. All he does is shoot spot-up Js.

Frank O.: The key is the Knicks got stops where the Bulls could not

I disagree… I think the key is that the Knicks hit 67% of their 3s…

tastycakes: Really, all I’m saying is there are positive signs and no reason to panic.

Agreed.

tastycakes: When I said Gallo hasn’t become an “elite, unstoppable sharpshooter” yet, I meant just that. Certainly he has a track record as a pretty good player and there is no reason to think that he will suddenly turn to crap … but the expectations among Knick fans are that he will make significant *improvements* this year

I would say he’s already an elite “sharpshooter,” and the improvements we’re hoping for are in other areas. Hoping he can do more than just stand around and shoot.

tastycakes: We’re not seeing that yet, so perhaps that is of greater concern to my dreams of the Knicks taking the league by storm this year.

Last night he looked good. I think the Dirk expectations some have are unfair, but besides hitting his 3s, he also got to the rim twice, had 6 FTAs, made some passes, 6 reb, 1 blk, 2 stl, 1 TO (travel near the end), and played generally smart ball. Obviously the shots won’t always fall (and he missed a bunch of long 2s even last night… mostly shots he probably shouldn’t be taking…), but even if he only has 15-18 points that was a good overall game…

For the record, I have a ton of respect for your analysis, agree with your take on the Knicks this season, and was in no way trying to diminish it. Certainly, the way Amar’e has been playing is disappointing and Fields has been a very pleasant surprise, no arguments there.

Also for the record, I have watched half the games and highlights on the others, and I can read a box-score, so I am cognizant of the problems thus far.

When I said Gallo hasn’t become an “elite, unstoppable sharpshooter” yet, I meant just that. Certainly he has a track record as a pretty good player and there is no reason to think that he will suddenly turn to crap … but the expectations among Knick fans are that he will make significant *improvements* this year, being effectively a second year player, and very young, and our hopes for the ‘bockers are predicated on him (or forgotten man AR) taking a big step forward and becoming a star. We’re not seeing that yet, so perhaps that is of greater concern to my dreams of the Knicks taking the league by storm this year.

Sometimes reading these forums it sounds like the sky is falling if a player has a few bad games, but hey, that’s because we care.

Really, all I’m saying is there are positive signs and no reason to panic. If all goes well, this team could be 4-2 by Monday.

Nick C.: Frank O. now that you mention it I noticed there were a fair amount of plays where the ball was driven forward and then flipped back to the wing for a 3. It was nice to see.  (Quote)

Yeah, it clearly looked set. Someone said, run the PnR and if they collapse look to the elbow for a shooter. You rarely see it because most will dish on the PnR. Douglas was particularly effective doing it, if I remember correctly.
By the way, both teams had 27 assists.

I thought it was a remarkably well-played, exciting, see-saw game. With some key plays. The Knicks put tremendous pressure on the Bulls when the would get a stop and nail a three. It happened several times and just deflated the Bulls.
When Rose and Deng made that 3rd period surge, the Knicks absorbed it, quelled it, and overall appeared utterly unflappable.
Poised and confident on the road

-Can Amar’e find a groove offensively?
-Can the Knicks defend the p&r consistently?
-Can Chandler stop taking that many outside shots?
-Can Gallo take it to the rack consistently?
-Can Randolph find a suitable role in this system?