Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, April 23, 2014

Knicks 115, Wizards 106

Last night’s first quarter ended with the Knicks up by 7, and New York would extend the lead to 13 early in the second quarter. At first glance it appeared that D’Antoni’s group would sail on to victory. But the Wizards began to exploit a Knick weakness, the same one that sunk them against the Thunder: rebounding. Here’s some of the action from the play-by-play:

Young 3pt Shot: Missed 09:51
Booker Rebound (Off:1 Def:0) 09:50
Booker Layup Shot: Made (2 PTS) 09:48
[WAS 30-39]  
Booker Free Throw 1 of 1 (3 PTS) 09:48
[WAS 31-39]  
   
Shakur Jump Shot: Missed Block: Turiaf (1 BLK) 08:48
Team Rebound 08:47
Lewis Jump Shot: Made (2 PTS) Assist: Thornton (1 AST) 08:37
[WAS 35-43]  
   
Booker Turnaround Jump Shot: Missed 05:56
McGee Rebound (Off:1 Def:6) 05:53
McGee Tip Shot: Made (9 PTS) 05:53
[WAS 45-45]  
   
Booker Jump Shot: Missed Block: Stoudemire (1 BLK) 04:17
McGee Rebound (Off:2 Def:6) 04:15
McGee Slam Dunk Shot: Made (11 PTS) 04:13
[WAS 51-48]  
   
Lewis Rebound (Off:0 Def:2) 03:30
Booker Jump Shot: Missed 03:25
Shakur Rebound (Off:1 Def:2) 03:23
Shakur Jump Bank Shot: Made (4 PTS) 03:21
[WAS 56-51]  
   
Young Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 02:05
Young 3pt Shot: Missed 01:59
Booker Rebound (Off:2 Def:1) 01:57
Booker Turnover : Out of Bounds Lost Ball Turnover (1 TO) 01:56

I count only 3 Washington possessions in that quarter that end in a Knick rebound, and one was off a missed throw. The Knicks ended up winning the game, due to a slight edge in shooting (51.6% to 50.6% eFG) and a huge edge in turnovers (9.6 to 15.1 to%). They lost the rebounding battle, but made it close (31.6 to 28.6). Although Amar’e Stoudemire led the team with 5 offensive boards, every Knick except for Raymond Felton and Bill Walker secured a miss off the glass.

This is yet another game in which the Knicks got beaten on the glass. New York is 25th in offensive rebounding and 26th on defensive rebounding. According to the four factors, it’s the only major weakness the team has, and something the team should look to address before the trade deadline.

111 comments on “Knicks 115, Wizards 106

  1. Nick C.

    The Knicks are mid pack (16th) in EFG defensively so it really is the boards that are the main culprit. Over the last 3 games it seems particularly bad. I thought that may be in part because Lee is gone. However one of the teams that ranks below them is GS. Anyway it seems as though Coach was overseas and missed the whole Pat Riley “no rebounds, no rings” mantra.

  2. Z

    In the pre-season it looked like the 2011 Knicks wouldn’t just be a bad rebounding team, but a historically bad rebounding team! We’re still rebounding above expectation :)

    (which teams are worse than us and what the heck is THEIR problem?)

  3. misterma

    If they don’t make a trade, they can either keep more guys back to rebound, which will make it hard to run 7sol, or they can play Anthony Randolph, who has the highest rebound% on the team but has looked horrible, especially shooting the ball. Mozgov is a good rebounder too, but has also looked horrible trying to hold on to the ball. Those are really the only answers on the roster.

  4. Caleb

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/rebounds-per-game

    In overall rebound %, Knicks are 28th – only Phoenix and Golden State are worse.

    On defensive boards, Knicks are 26th – better than Golden State, Phoenix, Washington and Utah.

    On offensive glass, Knicks are 25th, beating Atlanta, Dallas, Denver, Cleveland and the league-worst Celtics. (See a pattern? A lot of good defensive teams don’t crash the boards but get back on D… like the Riley Knicks)

    Discuss…

  5. Caleb

    @4 I think we can trim down the options… Mozgov might board some day but in his limited career his rebound rate is an awful 11.2, worse than Landry Fields. (although better than Brook Lopez, Mehmet Okur or Channing Frye!) Maybe if they let him use stickum.

  6. Jafa

    We just don’t box out at all! I watched the game last night and Turiaf, Amare and Chandler simply did not box out! Those long athletic Wizard forwards kept coming in for rebounds and simply out-leaping or out-hustling our guys (the kind of stuff Fields does on the offensive boards). No box out! Nobody put a body on them to prevent the easy rebound. This is very frustrating to watch.

    At this point, I don’t care if we play good team defense, but if we at least rebound the other team’s misses, we limit second chance opportunities. That way, if we lose, we can say “those guys shot the heck out of the ball” and not “Kevin Love or Ilgaskus killed us on the boards”. Uggh!

    Against Miami and Atlanta (who both have athletic big guys who are keyed in on rebounding every shot their stars put up), we need to box these guys out. Once the shot goes up, box out!!!

    End of rant.

  7. Jafa

    Caleb: We’ve been through this before but I don’t think a trade is the answer.  

    Totally agree Caleb. Rebounding can be taught. Every scrub who ever played street ball that can’t shoot and doesn’t have a handle knows how to rebound. Everybody. Its the only way you are going to win a game of 21. When they other guys miss, you box out, rebound and then you get your chance. It can be taught.

    Speaking of which, what assistant coach is responsible for teaching this to our players?

  8. Frank

    The D-rebounding has been so bad maybe D’Antoni needs to make a point of it – if you don’t make an effort to box out, then you’re sitting. That should go for Amare, WC, anyone who lets an O-reb happen without even trying.

    When the NYK concentrate on rebounding, we’re great. It just seems like maybe there is not enough emphasis on it? It’s hard to believe but maybe that’s it. The # of times I see our guys just standing and watching the rebound go to the opposing team is just unacceptable.

  9. Brian Cronin

    There were a couple of times in the last two games where it looked like all the Knick player had to do was jump and the rebound would have at least tipped off of their hand and not gone straight to a Thunder/Wizard player, but they didn’t so it did.

    So yeah, they do have really weird habits around the basket when it comes to rebounding.

  10. Owen

    Rebounding can’t be taught in the NBA. There aren’t a lot of examples of guys coming into the NBA and learning how to rebound. To the contrary, your college and even high school statistics on a per minute pace adjusted basis are usually a very accurate indicator of how well you will rebound in the pros. You could see Kevin Love’s current dominance coming miles away. And it was a pretty clear warning sign that Eddy Curry couldn’t manage to corral double digit rebounds in high school.

    As long as D’Antoni is here we won’t be a strong rebounding team. He values scoring efficiency over possession. That’s what 7SOL is at it’s core. And that’s fine. But, it’s a very limiting strategy after a certain point to guide your player acquisition strategies. There are inefficiencies in the NBA labor market the Knicks fail to exploit because of D’Antoni’s mindset. And failing to do so is something we can’t really afford to do given that we have so few blue chip assets on the team.

  11. Kikuchiyo

    I’m a big Amar’e fan, but I gotta say that I’ve never seen a big man so uninterested in rebounding. We’ve seen him play good defense when he gets fired up, but Amar’e rarely sees rebounding as something essential. And, what is most uncommon, he often lets others take an easy rebound if it is right in front of him. Most of his rebounds last night practically bounced before he got to them.

  12. latke

    A nice start to resolving the rebounding woes would be to give Fields more than the 24.1 MPG he’s averaging in the last 7 games.

    Blocking out has to be a team effort. If the pg, sg, and sf don’t block out, then the bigs are actually better off just chasing the ball, since putting their body on a guy makes it easier for a small dude to run in and grab the rebound from in front of them.

  13. Caleb

    @11 & 13 Agree, it’s a personnel decision – MDA is playing guys who offer no rebounding. He has options, but is not using them.

  14. Frank

    Owen: Rebounding can’t be taught in the NBA. There aren’t a lot of examples of guys coming into the NBA and learning how to rebound. To the contrary, your college and even high school statistics on a per minute pace adjusted basis are usually a very accurate indicator of how well you will rebound in the pros. You could see Kevin Love’s current dominance coming miles away. And it was a pretty clear warning sign that Eddy Curry couldn’t manage to corral double digit rebounds in high school.

    It’s like the classic Scott Skiles quote when a reporter asked him “Scott, what do you think Eddy can do to improve his rebounding?” Skiles: “Jump”

  15. flossy

    Kikuchiyo: I’m a big Amar’e fan, but I gotta say that I’ve never seen a big man so uninterested in rebounding. We’veseen him play good defense when he gets fired up, but Amar’e rarely sees rebounding as something essential. And, what is most uncommon, he often lets others take an easy rebound if it is right in front of him. Most of his rebounds last night practically bounced before he got to them.  

    It seems to me that Amar’e came out of high school not knowing the fundamentals of man-to-man defense and without the habit of boxing out, and nobody at the NBA level has really worked with him to correct this (or he has been unwilling to change his ways…). The fact that he can get 9 rebounds and 2 block shots as a help defender is a testament to his freakish athleticism, but he could be a Dwight Howard-level rebounder if he actually did it right.

    Add to this that the rest of our frontcourt is made up of small forwards and our best natural rebounder* by far gets a DNP-CD every night… yeah, this team has rebounding issues that are not going away anytime soon.

    *not to suggest that Anthony Randolph is epitomizes good rebounding fundamentals, but he is so long and athletic that he can get 11 rebounds per 36 just by really getting after it, and he does.

  16. Jimmy C

    The lack of rebounding is really getting

    Jafa: We just don’t box out at all!I watched the game last night and Turiaf, Amare and Chandler simply did not box out!…I don’t care if we play good team defense, but if we at least rebound the other team’s misses, we limit second chance opportunities.That way, if we lose, we can say “those guys shot the heck out of the ball” and not “Kevin Love or Ilgaskus killed us on the boards”.  

    Agree completely. The lack of rebounding is fast becoming more frustrating, and more pronounced than the lack of defense. Amare especially just kills me — he jumps like an old man half the time.

    The claim is that AR isn’t seeing the court because a) he’s been woeful in short spurts and b) his offensive game in general isn’t polished enough for SSOL. But there’s no way he has less of a game than Turiaf, who we all saw last night looked completely shocked when he got the ball on the high post and looked frantically for someone to dish to before realizing he had no one within 8 feet of him. Is AR just dogging it in practice? Because if it’s simple lack of offense keeping him out, why is Ronny getting so many minutes?

    A team can live with one or the other: lack of defense or lack of rebounding (the Celtics don’t rebound at a high rate, but they defend, while the Lakers aren’t known for D, but rebound very well). But NO ONE can expect to win lacking both.

  17. Brian Cronin

    Well, recently, Jimmy, the claim has been that they have set deals in place for AR so they don’t want to risk those deals getting ruined by him hurting himself.

  18. ess-dog

    agree @ 14,

    better rebounders have a bigger base (wider hips and stronger legs) but D’Antoni and Walsh have put together a long, thin, fast group in order to run SSOL (which they aren’t even maximizing really.) The lone exception is Mozgov who has both the body and the form to block out very well. Will he ever see court time? It’s hard to say.

    As for AR, I have no idea how he gets his boards. It seems like a combo of out jumping/reaching others and putting back his own misses a la the other Randolph (Zach.)

    At this point, I have more hope that Moz sees court time than AR.
    Also it seems like when our steals and block are up (leading to transition) we tend to play much better. You would think defensive rebounding would fall into this category as well, and that’s where I think we need a blocking out/outlet guy on the floor.

    I think this is why D’Antoni was so high on Moz to begin with and I really hope he starts to go back to him and Moz plays better.

  19. Jimmy C

    Brian Cronin: Well, recently, Jimmy, the claim has been that they have set deals in place for AR so they don’t want to risk those deals getting ruined by him hurting himself.  

    I realize that, but with all of Walsh’s recent hints that we’re not going to land Carmelo before the deadline, you’d think D’Antoni might see it fit to give him a little burn. Unless, of course, we want that pick to land a different piece. If the deadline passes with no Melo deal, it’ll be interesting to see if he gets back out there.

  20. Frank

    There certainly are rebounding fundamentals that can be taught, but so much of rebounding is just desire and activity. There are people/players in this world that are watchers and people/players that go and get it. Curry, the most obvious example, is a watcher — he has all the talent in the world but when the ball comes off the rim, he doesn’t have the same tenacity in him as Kevin Love does. Landry Fields is not the most athletic 2-guard– he just wants the ball more than any other 2, has great timing/instincts, and goes and gets it. I think with tons of coaching Amare could get maybe 10-11 rebounds/game, but with all the fundamentals in the world, he’d never be Howard or Love.

    You can’t teach desire but you CAN punish lack of desire. It really may come down to players being benched when not boxing out before this gets any better.

  21. ess-dog

    Frank: There certainly are rebounding fundamentals that can be taught, but so much of rebounding is just desire and activity.There are people/players in this world that are watchers and people/players that go and get it.Curry, the most obvious example, is a watcher — he has all the talent in the world but when the ball comes off the rim, he doesn’t have the same tenacity in him as Kevin Love does.Landry Fields is not the most athletic 2-guard– he just wants the ball more than any other 2, has great timing/instincts, and goes and gets it.I think with tons of coaching Amare could get maybe 10-11 rebounds/game, but with all the fundamentals in the world, he’d never be Howard or Love.You can’t teach desire but you CAN punish lack of desire. It really may come down to players being benched when not boxing out before this gets any better.  

    Gallo’s a real conundrum here. He has had some eye of the tiger moments where he can rip a board down but generally he’s passive, even deferring to his teammates quite often, but generally just not being in good position to get a board.

  22. KnickInSeattle

    This is a bit off topic as it is about loose balls more than rebounding.
    Several times during the last few games I’ve seen better-than-average effort show up in the form of Knicks diving to the ground for loose balls.

    TDDWTDD, Fields, and even Extra-E come to mind as players who’ve done this. That kind of desire is always a hallmark of the best teams (90s Knicks and Bulls, all Popovich Spurs teams, etc).

    I’m glad to see that kind of effort again and have some hope it will start to show up in, say, blocking-out, regardless of body type. Finally, it seems Stat has tried to pick it up on the defensive end a bit…harassing the inbounds pass after a posession, sometimes fronting his man in the post, etc. He’s not playing great defense, don’t get me wrong, but his effort level…and maybe the team’s effort overall…seems to be getting better.

  23. Jimmy C

    KnickInSeattle: … TDDWTDD, Fields, and even Extra-E come to mind as players who’ve done this. That kind of desire is always a hallmark of the best teams (90s Knicks and Bulls, all Popovich Spurs teams, etc)..  

    I have to say, while he’s still raw, I’ve been very impressed with Extra E’s development. I know a lot of people were laughing last night when Breen was so complimentary of his defense, but he’s one guy who looks like he’s actually trying most of the time. He’s vocal on the defensive end, communicates through screens and is generally a lot more active than most of our guys.

    Another smart move by Walsh. Shawne genuinely looks like he’s relishing the “second chance” and making the most of it.

  24. Nick C.

    @24
    I think that was the area (along with as a help defender) where they were giving most of their praise. That’s something you probably can only notice sitting near the court and would not be apparent to us on TV but may explain some of the disconnect.

    @22 That’s what’s so odd about Gallo he definitely has one or so fiercly snatched rebounds under the basket where he brings the ball in close to his body and swings out with the elbows as if he was a mother bear defending her cubs. But the other 47:55 minutes just sort of an eehh attitude or so it seems.

  25. Frank

    @25 – I know KB got into a semantic argument about Gallo’s “consistency” re: scoring, but I think he has been really inconsistent in terms of effort. It’s really his next step to becoming an All-star level player – consistent effort not just night in and night out even within the same game or quarter. When he plays with aggression we are so much better. He’s a perfect complement to the Felton/Amare 2 man game, and especially if this Melo thing doesn’t happen, we need him to step up in a major way.

  26. ess-dog

    Btw, despite his slump, there just aren’t a lot of great guards in the east to compete with Felton for an all-star bid. Rose and Wade are the starters, Rondo and Allen on the bench and then either Joe Johnson or Ray. Johnson will probably get the nod, even though he’s playing sub-par b/c of the Hawks’ record.

  27. ltmurray

    I’d like to think that rebounding can be taught…but if they haven’t learned by now then what the F?!

    And this topic isn’t nearly sophisticated enough for KB, but our intramural basketball team needs a name, and I’d love any Knick-themed ideas you guys might have.

    Or just ignore this childish request and continue with your typically keen and insightful commentary.

    Pretty excited about the Heat game, especially if they won’t have Bosh.

  28. Jimmy C

    ltmurray: And this topic isn’t nearly sophisticated enough for KB, but our intramural basketball team needs a name, and I’d love any Knick-themed ideas you guys might have.Or just ignore this childish request and continue with your typically keen and insightful commentary.  

    Seven Minutes or Less.

  29. Z

    Brian Cronin: the claim has been that they have set deals in place for AR so they don’t want to risk those deals getting ruined by him hurting himself.  

    I think this claim is just Sheridan’s gut feeling, which may be right, but I don’t think it is. Randolph wasn’t playing before these reported deals were in place. When D’Antoni did play him he was horrendous. If 2 minutes of garbage time is going to break Randolph, he shouldn’t be in ours,mor anyone’s, plans. If D’Antoni thought Randolph would help the team I think he’d play him. He just hasn’t shown the staff any thing that resembles competent basketball since he’s been here, and D’Dantoni doesn’t seem like the kind of coach who looks at rebounding% from years prior and doles out PT based on Golden State’s garbage heavy past two years.

  30. Robert Silverman

    Z:
    I think this claim is just Sheridan’s gut feeling, which may be right, but I don’t think it is. Randolph wasn’t playing before these reported deals were in place. When D’Antoni did play him he was horrendous. If 2 minutes of garbage time is going to break Randolph, he shouldn’t be in ours,mor anyone’s, plans. If D’Antoni thought Randolph would help the team I think he’d play him. He just hasn’t shown the staff any thing that resembles competent basketball since he’s been here, and D’Dantoni doesn’t seem like the kind of coach who looks at rebounding% from years prior and doles out PT based on Golden State’s garbage heavy past two years.  

    Walsh has gone on the record multiple times to say he can get a 1st whenever he needs it (I’m too busy/lazy to dig up the link). It’s not just Sheridan speculating.

  31. Frank O.

    Honestly, I think the Knicks plan on rolling Mosgov out soon. They see him as athletic as hell. They like the way he moves. They think he will be good, but D’Antoni said they rushed him before he was ready.
    I think they are making him ready and will introduce him more later in the year.
    I kind of agree with Caleb that the knicks don’t need to make a trade necessarily to improve rebounding. I also don’t think in the end the Knicks will need to trade for – or trade much for – Melo. If Carmelo wants to be a Knick, he’ll be a Knick. Denver doesn’t have much leverage there.
    I recognize that part of what I’m saying is wishful thinking. Mosgov may never pan out, but basketball people say he has all the pieces to be good. If they are working him hard, teaching him the right way to play within this system, he could be a wildcard down the stretch.
    Bottom line, if he scores almost no points, but blocks 2 shots and grabs 10-12 boards a game per 36, that would be a major plus for these knicks.
    I’ve always thought Mosgov would be an important part of this team. It’s just a matter of when he is ready.

    I feel similarly about AR, but his mistakes, in however limited time he’s been on the court, have done real damage to the knicks flow. He thinks he’s more than he is, judging by the kinds of things he tries to do. If he can figure a way to stay within himself, fill a role, he could also be a powerful addition.

    And lord knows, they need the length and size.

    Another glaring problem for me is that the Knicks are relying on the last line of defense all the time. Perimeter defense is breaking down, and too many open shots are falling, or too many weakly contest drives are being confronted by our so-called big men, and they are getting in foul trouble.
    Felton and Douglas and Fields need to do a better job defending.

  32. Brian Cronin

    When he plays with aggression we are so much better. He’s a perfect complement to the Felton/Amare 2 man game, and especially if this Melo thing doesn’t happen, we need him to step up in a major way.

    A player like Gallo can be aggressive as he wants, if he does not get the ball, it won’t matter. Gallo’s game is like Reggie Miller – he needs people to run plays to get him the ball. Can you imagine what Reggie Miller would look like if the Pacers never ran plays for him? That’s the situation Gallo is in right now. He could be a great complement to Stat/Felton, but if they don’t give him the ball, it doesn’t really work.

    The other day in OKC, he had 18 in the first half and 5 in the second! He hits a big three with seven minutes or so left, then doesn’t get the ball back the rest of the game!

  33. Z

    Robert Silverman:
    Walsh has gone on the record multiple times to say he can get a 1st whenever he needs it (I’m too busy/lazy to dig up the link). It’s not just Sheridan speculating.  

    Yeah, but the idea that Randolph isn’t even getting garbage time minutes anymore because of his imminent inclusion in an upcoming trade is Sheridan’s suggestion, and not a reported fact. Personally, I think if D’Antoni thought Randolph was good enough to help the team, he’d play him. But we’ve seen Coach act stubbornly toward players in the past, and I’m not surprised if he’s given up on Randolph. Randolph’s 110 minutes have been worse than Mardy Collins bad.

  34. Z

    Interesting Jimmy.

    Brian– did you read Walsh’s quote in that NY Post piece? Walsh says: “We’re below the cap now”. So either he’s wrong, or HoopsHype and ShamSports are miscalculating their payroll totals…

  35. Jafa

    ltmurray: And this topic isn’t nearly sophisticated enough for KB, but our intramural basketball team needs a name, and I’d love any Knick-themed ideas you guys might have.  

    Swishing & Dishing
    Beasts of the East
    4 Point Players
    Landry’s Crew
    7 Minutes to Next

    I could go on and on…

  36. Caleb

    @34 It sure looks as though D’Antoni gave up on Randolph months ago. That doesn’t mean it was smart. To the idea that Randolph has played himself into this position – I don’t know what to say. he’s barely played at all. As for being Collins-esque, no way – in his miniscule amount of court time that he’s had, he’s had the best rebound rate on the team (by a good margin) and helped the defense. His turnovers are dramatic but not incredibly numerous – barely half the Mozgov rate. He’s shot way too much and hit an awful percentage, but it’s silly to think that’s his “real” efficiency level, compared to the other 98 percent of his career minutes.

  37. kburt8

    ltmurray: our intramural basketball team needs a name, and I’d love any Knick-themed ideas you guys might have.  (Quote)

    Swishin’ and Dishin’ into Submission
    Ronny’s Homies
    The Ewing Theory
    Precocious Neophytes
    The Matador D

  38. Thomas B.

    Caleb:

    We’ve been through this before but I don’t think a trade is the answer.

    I think a trade has to be an answer because the rebounding asset on the Knick bench is going to stay firmly planted there. I don’t particularly like it but D’Antoni has a history of sticking with or without players without consideration of what they can do (Randolph) or what they can’t do (Duhon).

    Since D’Antoni isnt going to use him, you might as well trade for and asset he will use. I hate Okafor’s contract, but he is gettable. Maybe with a few picks thrown in…no that contract sucks. You’d have to get Paul back to swallow that and if you did, well that would be pretty (impossible) awesome.

  39. Jafa

    Brian,

    It seems to me that the offensive options for the Knicks in close games coming down the stretch are:
    1. Amare
    2. Felton
    3. Everybody else (whoever is fortunate enough to have the ball passed to him)

    I think I read a few times where Amare feels like he wants the ball in the fourth quarter and looks to take over. Since the ball is normally in Felton’s hands, they do the 2 man PnR thing with Felton looking to either pass to STAT or score himself.

    No surprise that Gallo gets most of his points in the first quarter, when these guys are looking to run the offense the way it should run and involving others.

    Here’s an idea for Gallo & Will – let STAT know you are as serious about winning as he is and demand that he give up the ball when double teamed. Then knock down a few 3s or mid-range 2s in clutch situations and let him know your always out there when its crowded in the middle. Also, let Felton know he is not the only outside option late in a close game.

    Of course, this would involve two passive guys engaging two highly emotional and prideful guys. Oh well, we’ll have to wait till a talented player with a stronger personality gets here…

  40. Caleb

    There are at least 5 or 6 guys who should be taking the last shot instead of Felton… it’s on him to make it happen.
    he is an ok PG – basically average. That’s not a liability but if he plays the role of “#2 star” then we have problems.

  41. Jafa

    kburt8:
    Swishin’ and Dishin’ into Submission
    Ronny’s Homies
    The Ewing Theory
    Precocious Neophytes
    The Matador D  

    Nice ones. Also:
    Bounding & Astounding
    With no regard for human life (from the Marv Albert days)
    Oak & Mase School of Hard Knocks
    Left Handed Jamers
    Spikes Boyz
    Zeke’s Picks

    I’m loving this exercise.

  42. ess-dog

    I hate to say it, but aside from being slow (and ugly), Troy Murphy would give us exactly what we need in a package that D’Antoni would play. He excels in rebounding and three point shooting. I know he’s having a terrible year, but if he’s released, I can see the Knicks looking into him if they can open up a roster spot…

  43. Caleb

    The Trent Tucker Rules
    The Matadors
    The Magnetic Fields
    The Roosters
    El Gallo
    The Mid-Level Exceptions
    I Took My Talents to Long Beach
    The MDA
    Pat Riley Can Kiss My A_____
    or maybe it’s better to go classy. Swishing and Dishing

  44. Jafa

    ess-dog: I hate to say it, but aside from being slow (and ugly), Troy Murphy would give us exactly what we need in a package that D’Antoni would play.He excels in rebounding and three point shooting.I know he’s having a terrible year, but if he’s released, I can see the Knicks looking into him if they can open up a roster spot…  

    This comment made me laugh out loud at work, which is always risky because everybody immediately asks “what so funny?”. And you don’t want to try to explain where you read the comment…

  45. Frank

    Thomas B.:
    I don’t particularly like it but D’Antoni has a history of sticking with or without players without consideration of what they can do (Randolph) or what they can’t do (Duhon).

    I’m not sure we have enough information to make that judgment. The players that he had a “grudge” against include guys like Nate (who has been shown to be no more than a bit player on a good team), Larry Hughes (who sucks), and now Randolph. People were wondering why we weren’t seeing any of Toney Douglas last year — turns out D’Antoni didn’t think he was ready yet, then played him when he thought he was ready.

    I’m not saying D’Antoni’s the greatest coach in the world or that he necessarily is right all the time re: his substitution patterns and 8-9 man rotation. It’s just people create these relatively snap judgments about him with little to no actual evidence. They (Ted) say he doesn’t like to develop players — he resurrected Joe Johnson’s non-existent pre-SSOL career. He played Barbosa a ton. He turned Diaw from a trade throw-in into a valuable rotation guy. even on this team he has resurrected Extra E’s nonexistent career and started a rookie every game.

    AR came here with a reputation for amazing physical talent with a 2 cent brain and basketball IQ. From all reports he’s been relatively mopey as compared with some of the other bench players. In other words, he’s just 1 or 2 steps above Eddy Curry. So maybe he has a vendetta against AR, or maybe he just doesn’t want to reward bad practice habits and work ethic. Or maybe he’s been ordered not to play him by Donnie? Who knows. Truth is – the Knicks have very good offensive players and passable defensive players even without someone like Randolph. They need a defensive COACH. Someone who insists on smart play and rotations, boxing out etc. That’s my main problem with MDA.

  46. Z

    @39 I’m not arguing coach is right. But like Thomas said in 41, coach ain’t playing Randolph, whether right or not, because Randolph has been terrible and coach doen’t care about the per36 numbers from Golden State.

  47. Caleb

    I’m not gonna get worked up over something that’s totally out of our hands – unless MDA is reading the blog, hi Mike! – but if we can’t argue about whether the coach is right, what’s the point?
    AR just makes a good case study of the coach looking at certain things and ignoring others. Any coach that bases his PT decisions on 100 minutes of court time is not wise.
    Of course we don’t know the whole picture – maybe he’s sidelined to avoid injury, maybe he really is awful in practice, etc. I’m just sayin’ – the worst things people have said about Randolph is that he’s immature and doesn’t know how to play yet. No one’s accused him of not working hard or not being in shape. if your biggest problems are being immature and not knowing how to play, I’d say the odds of your getting better are pretty good… of course with the caveat that he’s not too bad right now. Unlike, say, Mozgov. I’m not gonna write off a European import after 250 NBA minutes, but he’s 3 years older than Randolph and in his ONLY NBA action has been worse than Randolph at his worst. I just think it’s weird to think of them in the same category.

  48. ess-dog

    Jafa:
    Nice ones. Also:
    Bounding & Astounding
    With no regard for human life (from the Marv Albert days)
    Oak & Mase School of Hard Knocks
    Left Handed Jamers
    Spikes Boyz
    Zeke’s PicksI’m loving this exercise.  

    The Bicker Knockers (logo = two blue and orange breasts arguing with each other)

    The Mozgovites?

    The D’An-Tones?

    The Gallinairballs?

  49. Caleb

    The White Russians
    What Would TDD?
    We could beat Cleveland
    The Bicker Knockers has a ring to it, tho

  50. Mike Kurylo Post author

    ltmurray: I’d like to think that rebounding can be taught…but if they haven’t learned by now then what the F?!And this topic isn’t nearly sophisticated enough for KB, but our intramural basketball team needs a name, and I’d love any Knick-themed ideas you guys might have.Or just ignore this childish request and continue with your typically keen and insightful commentary.
    Pretty excited about the Heat game, especially if they won’t have Bosh.  

    Obey Mozgov
    D’Antoni’s ‘Staches
    Square Guardians
    ABCD eFG%
    Curry’s Chauffeurs
    Francis-Marbury 4E
    Chandler’s Missing Tooth
    Gallo’s Pick-up Line

    And anything in the vein of: “Your X Y”

    For instance “We lost last week to Your Fat Momma.” Or “Next week we play Your Ugly Sister”.

  51. Brian Cronin

    The Randolph thing is skewed, though (well, at least I think so), by the fact that D’Antoni seemed to be pretty clearly playing him out of position.

    Randolph is not a wing, and yet D’Antoni had him playing like a wing. It was doomed to failure from the start.

  52. tastycakes

    My fantasy team was called Amar’e's Israelites until I got the last draft spot and missed a shot at my man. So we are now called “OJ Mustardayonnaise”

    How about:

    Gallo’s Bad Hair Day
    The Extra E’s
    Eddy’s Cheeseburgers
    The No-D’Antonis
    Chandlerian Airballs
    Ill Will’s Vampire Tooth

  53. ltmurray

    I’m touched, guys. I really am. Deadline to submit rosters is Friday — I’ll let you know what I end up going with.

    And D-Wade probably going to be ready for Thursday? Crap!

  54. Caleb

    Randolph is shooting 29 percent in 110 minutes. Collins shot 32 percent in 634 minutes… therefore we conclude they are similar?

    @62 I actually think he IS a combo forward.. that’s who he’s gonna guard. he’s not a traditional big.. it’s just that you need to recognize that different players can play different roles in the offense… you don’t need 5 interchangeable jump shooters.

  55. nicos

    One thing that is having a real impact on the Knicks rebounding is that both Amare and Turiaf (and often Chandler) challenge every shot anywhere near the paint. Often both of them will rotate over (even when the first defender is in decent position to challenge the shot) and leave the boards wide open- Thus the Knicks efg isn’t bad but it comes at the expense of leaving the boards unprotected way too often.

  56. daJudge

    Brian and others, I think AR has potential, but he was a first round draft pick and hasn’t really done much. He has had many opportunities. Whether he is playing out of position or otherwise, he didn’t look good in the games. My guess (and only my guess) is that he dog’s it in practice and my perception is that his attitude is less than stelar. I truly long for a Big, but he ain’t it. I have plenty of problems with this Coach, who can be myopic, but I think that if AR’s defensive skills and rebounding ability surpassed his negatives, he would be getting plenty of burn. I don’t think the coach was telling him to take bad 15-20 foot jump shots. Look at the other guys who were drafted much later and have gotten a chance to shine. Look at Shawne, who was also drafted high but was on the scrap heap because of drugs and whatever. Don’t you think DW would want him to succeed? He has gotten a fair shake. I just don’t think that AR, who was greeted with ridiculous expectations by all of us initially, is really trying to become a better player. IMO, he should be in the D league or on a team that will nurture his skills and attitude slowly. I do hope the kid does great in his career. Just my view.

  57. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Sorry that I suck at this, but I’m bored.

    Andy Rautin’s Other Tat
    Starbury’s Vaseline Taste Testers
    The Expiring Contract Benchstars (feat. Eddy Curry)
    Ron Artest Has A Rap Label
    Rudy Gay’s Obvious Name Puns
    Jerome James and the Swollen Colons
    Prokhorov’s Plan B

    and the worst of the bad,

    Rashard Lewis’s Karma Trip to D.C.

  58. Z

    Caleb: Randolph is shooting 29 percent in 110 minutes. Collins shot 32 percent in 634 minutes… therefore we conclude they are similar? .  

    Point isn’t that they are similar. Point is that when Randolph has played this year, he’s been as bad as Mardy was.

    I agree AR should get a chance to show he’s not really that bad. But I can’t really fault D’Antoni for nailing him to the bench. It does spare Randolph from the embarrassment that comes with PT.

  59. Brian Cronin

    Brian and others, I think AR has potential, but he was a first round draft pick and hasn’t really done much. He has had many opportunities. Whether he is playing out of position or otherwise, he didn’t look good in the games. My guess (and only my guess) is that he dog’s it in practice and my perception is that his attitude is less than stelar. I truly long for a Big, but he ain’t it. I have plenty of problems with this Coach, who can be myopic, but I think that if AR’s defensive skills and rebounding ability surpassed his negatives, he would be getting plenty of burn. I don’t think the coach was telling him to take bad 15-20 foot jump shots. Look at the other guys who were drafted much later and have gotten a chance to shine. Look at Shawne, who was also drafted high but was on the scrap heap because of drugs and whatever. Don’t you think DW would want him to succeed? He has gotten a fair shake. I just don’t think that AR, who was greeted with ridiculous expectations by all of us initially, is really trying to become a better player. IMO, he should be in the D league or on a team that will nurture his skills and attitude slowly. I do hope the kid does great in his career. Just my view.

    AR was pretty good last year, at age 20. It is not like he is a rookie. I agree that Coach D’Antoni can be myopic, and one of his myopic traits is that he values guys who can hit the three, which includes Shawne Williams (and does not include AR). And playing AR at a spot where his talents don’t fit does no one any favors.

  60. rama

    OK, a few more names – though Bicker Knockers remains my fave:

    The Corner 3s
    SMAST (Standing Medium and Semi-Talented)
    Amare Amore
    The Max Contracts
    Finger Roll

  61. rama

    Brian –

    Ar defined himself as a 3. He thought he should be taking the ball up as a point forward. He does not see himself as a 4 or 5. Should D’Antoni have corrected him? Maybe he has – we have no way of knowing. But I’m not willing to put AR’s shot selection on D’Antoni if AR is doing what he described himself as cut out to do.

  62. Thomas B.

    ltmurray: our intramural basketball team needs a name, and I’d love any Knick-themed ideas you guys might have.

    Blew an orange
    Criminal Defense
    So Talented At Turnovers
    ARDNPCD
    Firsties!
    Roger Masonry Jr. (he lays bricks get it masonry)

  63. Brian Cronin

    Ar defined himself as a 3. He thought he should be taking the ball up as a point forward. He does not see himself as a 4 or 5. Should D’Antoni have corrected him? Maybe he has – we have no way of knowing. But I’m not willing to put AR’s shot selection on D’Antoni if AR is doing what he described himself as cut out to do.

    Players tend to have a distorted idea of their talents. Josh Smith thought he was a perimeter player at first, as well. D’Antoni should know better. All of us looking at AR, none of us think he should be the guy who gets the ball 18 feet away from the basket, right? AR (and D’Antoni) should realize that, as well.

    NOTE: I initially commented about AR’s intelligence and that was way unfair of me, so I’ve edited my initial response. My apologies, AR!

  64. Caleb

    Off=topic (as if there IS a topic) here’s the Wojo/Yahoo article on the Bulls in the Melo sweepstakes.

    There’s no real news here; stories like this run when a reporter or columnist gets a “tip” from someone.

    My takeaways…

    #1, the leaks on Carmelo are coming from his own handlers.

    #2, Donnie Walsh is taking a hard line. Everyone can see Carmelo wants to play in New York. If DW would pony up a certain offer, the deal would be done. But he’s not. (Nice move, Donnie!)

    Team Carmelo is afraid that if Walsh sticks to his guns, their client will be stuck as a FA this summer, which will almost certainly mean a large pay cut, compared to signing a $65 million extension right now. So they are beating the bushes to try and force Donnie’s hand.

    #3 They’re having a hard time, if the Bulls are the best story they can plant. Everyone knows the Bulls have nothing to offer that Denver would take (unless they shock the world by offering Noah, which they’ve refused to do. Or Boozer. (would they offer Boozer? No one’s ever mentioned that, but why not?)

    #4 Leaking is “smart” because from a straight financial perspective you want to push up the competion i.e. the price for your client. But is Carmelo on board with the plan? He wasn’t on board with Jersey, which was transparently put together by his handlers. If they’re going rogue again, if I were him I might consider pulling a Chandler on them…

  65. rama

    “Players tend to have a distorted idea of their talents. Josh Smith thought he was a perimeter player at first, as well. D’Antoni should know better. All of us looking at AR, none of us think he should be the guy who gets the ball 18 feet away from the basket, right? AR (and D’Antoni) should realize that, as well.”

    I agree, Brian, but the point is that it might not be DAntoni forcing AR to play a role he’s unsuited for – it might be DAntoni refusing to push AR into a role he IS suited for. There’s a difference; the thing is, we don’t know. In the absence of information, you have to go on the comments each of them has made about AR and his role.

    Personally, if I had to guess…actually, I won’t guess. We’ll find out by the end of the season. I will say that if he had the self-awareness of Turiaf, he’d probably be an all-star. Turiaf does an awful lot with the little he’s got physically.

  66. Jafa

    jon abbey:
    interesting take on this here:http://www.blazersedge.com/2011/1/23/1951321/kevin-loves-rebounding-numbers-are-inflated  

    “What was much worse than the illegitimate rebounds was how Love was getting his legitimate rebounds. He blatantly stole a number from his own teammates and even tried to go over Darko’s back for what would have been an uncontested rebound. Darko seemed annoyed, probably expecting a foul call, until he realized it was his own teammate…In case you haven’t noticed, Kevin Love is really into getting rebounds…When it comes down to it, Love would rather let Bonner shoot an open three than risk letting one of his teammates snag his birthright.”

    Love that last quote (pun intended)!

  67. Frank

    I sort of feel bad for Melo (or at least as bad as one can feel for a guy who has already made nearly $100M and is in line to make another future $100M regardless of CBA issues). He’s under no obligation at all to sign an extension with Denver or any team that Denver wants to trade him to, or to let Denver know his future plans. He’s still playing hard (if slightly distracted by this whole mess). And now he’s getting booed? He completely has the right to choose his next destination – that’s whole point of the ETO and free agency. He’s doing the anti-Lebron thing — actually giving Denver a chance to get something for him before he walks.

    A question – people in the media keep on talking about sign-and-trade after the season for Melo. I can’t figure that out at all – this never made sense to me with Bosh/TOR and LBJ/Cle either. Why did MIA give up anything in a sign-and-trade? They had already agreed to sign with MIA regardless. If a team has cap space and can sign the player outright (and for less money), why wouldn’t they just do that without giving up anything? The DLee GSW situation was different – they didn’t have cap space and needed to pull a trade off, which is why the price was relatively high.

    I wouldn’t give up anything in a sign-and-trade – just give him the max contract under the new CBA, whatever that is.

  68. kburt8

    Frank: this never made sense to me with Bosh/TOR and LBJ/Cle either. Why did MIA give up anything in a sign-and-trade?  (Quote)

    Sign and trade allows for a contract that is longer by 1 year than signing the player outright.

  69. Frank

    kburt8:
    Sign and trade allows for a contract that is longer by 1 year than signing the player outright.  

    I guess so — it also means another year of totally guaranteed money regardless of injury or loss of skill. Would be interesting to see how players do in the 6th year of their contract in their early 30s.

  70. Caleb

    @80 Teams do sign and trade to make the player happy – in a re-signing, or a sign-and-trade, you could do a six-year deal as opposed to five years with a new team. In some cases the player might be playing hardball, as in, “Some other team will offer a six-year-deal (via S&T) so you better, too).”

    (Since Florida has no income tax, Melo, Bosh and Wade actually didn’t take less than they would have received elsewhere (though of course they could have held up Miami for even more)

    The Knicks scenario is more like the Lee/GSW trade. As things stand, if Turiaf exercises his $4.3 million option, they will have about $46 million in committed salary (assuming their draft position stays the same, and assuming they keep Chandler on hold (cap hold, I think, will be double this year’s salary i.e. $4.2 million)). With a cap in the $58 million range, like it is now, that’s only $12 million in Melo space. I know Donnie wants a discount but I don’t know if Melo would go for that, after walking away from the extension at $22 million per.

    If Donnie wants to offer more, he has to either move players elsewhere, sell the pick or just do a straight sign and trade with Denver. Meanwhile Melo will be putting on pressure for the S&T. Since he would end up taking minutes from another forward anyway, the best guess is that Walsh would offer Chandler/Gallo/Randolph in return. Chandler would be the best move financially (since he’ll take up more like $8 million-plus in later years), but from a basketball perspective you’d rather move someone else (like, I don’t know, Mozgov) and either keep Chandler or move him in a separate deal. (Like, sign Melo, then S&T Chandler/Randolph/Felton for Chris Paul). At least, that would be the idea.

  71. Ben R

    The other big advantage of a s&t is the yearly raises can be bigger. This means a team can sign a player for the same amount of money but have a smaller cap hit on year one.

  72. Jimmy C

    Caleb: My takeaways…

    #1, the leaks on Carmelo are coming from his own handlers.

    #2, Donnie Walsh is taking a hard line. Everyone can see Carmelo wants to play in New York. If DW would pony up a certain offer, the deal would be done. But he’s not. (Nice move, Donnie!)

    Lot of jibber-jabber right now about the Knicks-Nugs trade talks “heating up” again. Apparently now they’re interested in Randolph himself, and not whatever pick we’d get for him.

    Have to wonder if it’s simply Melo’s handlers trying to get the Nets back to the table. Either way, I wonder how different an offer might look with Randolph included directly.

  73. latke

    Owen: “Owen: You could see Kevin Love’s current dominance coming miles away. ”interesting take on this here:http://www.blazersedge.com/2011/1/23/1951321/kevin-loves-rebounding-numbers-are-inflated ”I believe it, but the Wolves are nevertheless a much better rebounding team, especially on the offensive end, with Love on the court. Not surprising with their roster…

    This is a really interesting article. I wonder though how common this is. I remember during the offseason reading something about how lee was doing similar things in terms of going for rebounds rather than rotating defensively.

    Caleb: Chandler would be the best move financially (since he’ll take up more like $8 million-plus in later years), but from a basketball perspective you’d rather move someone else (like, I don’t know, Mozgov) and either keep Chandler or move him in a separate deal.

    Can you do a double sign and trade though — like sign and trade a player for another player being signed and traded to you? It doesn’t say anything about it in Coon’s salary cap rules, but I’ve never heard of it happening.

  74. Caleb

    Whatever the Nuggets want, Donnie has said “no” or Carmelo would be in a Knicks uniform.

    An educated guess:
    On the Nuggets side, if it’s true as reported that the Nets were (read: are) willing to trade Favors and three 1st-round picks — then Nuggets are looking at that as the offer to match or beat. Meaning, they’re asking for Chandler, Gallo, Fields AND Randolph (or a pick in place of Randolph)… AND probably the 2014 1st-rounder.

    That’s five good assets – what Sheridan would call a “fair” offer. There’s a lot of space between that crazy talk and Donnie’s obvious preference, i.e. give the Nuggets nothing. We don’t really know his bottom line.

    But… just reading between the lines – if Donnie were offering even two good prospects (like Chandler and Randolph) – I don’t think we’d hear rumors about the Bulls, who – unless they make a shocker with Boozer or Noah – can’t offer even a single asset as good as the Knicks’ five options.

  75. Caleb

    @88 yes, you can do any kind of sign and trade you want, as long as it fits the cap.

    re: the blazersedge article, I’m not too impressed. It sounds like the writer actually thinks LaMarcus Aldrige is just as good a rebounder. Yes it’s interesting that official scorers game the charts a little bit for the home team, and yes Kevin Love might get a little boost from.. but that’s just how it goes for star players and stat leaders. Kevin Love is still the best rebounder in the NBA this season; doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be better off sticking with his man every now and then. (Best example of this: Zach Randolph – ignores guy he guards, to grab the board). It would be interesting to see what happens to Love’s numbers if he played for D’Antoni, though – since, like we talked about on the last thread, MDA clearly instructs players to run back on defense and don’t even try to crash the O-boards.

  76. endyendy

    Frank: I sort of feel bad for Melo (or at least as bad as one can feel for a guy who has already made nearly $100M and is in line to make another future$100M regardless of CBA issues).He’s under no obligation at all to sign an extension with Denver or any team that Denver wants to trade him to, or to let Denver know his future plans.He’s still playing hard (if slightly distracted by this whole mess). And now he’s getting booed?He completely has the right to choose his next destination – that’s whole point of the ETO and free agency.He’s doing the anti-Lebron thing — actually giving Denver a chance to get something for him before he walks.A question – people in the media keep on talking about sign-and-trade after the season for Melo.I can’t figure that out at all –this never made sense to me with Bosh/TOR and LBJ/Cle either.Why did MIA give up anything in a sign-and-trade? They had already agreed to sign with MIA regardless.If a team has cap space and can sign the player outright (and for less money), why wouldn’t they just do that without giving up anything?The DLee GSW situation was different – they didn’t have cap space and needed to pull a trade off, which is why the price was relatively high.
    I wouldn’t give up anything in a sign-and-trade– just give him the max contract under the new CBA, whatever that is.  

    I’m with you on Melo, especially after seeing videos like this: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6051015&categoryid=2459788

    The Kobe reference just makes it more ridiculous.

  77. totti

    rebounds?
    simple,
    if you go for blocking
    you don’t box out and don’t have position.
    Mozgov?
    simple,
    he’s another DW fault
    AR?
    simple,
    he is another dantoni’s fault

    let’s hope that DW won’t gut the team to give 20mil to melo
    can you imagine? stat felton and melo in the same team……
    we’ll need three basketballs in this case!

  78. cgreene

    latke:
    Can you do a double sign and trade though — like sign and trade a player for another player being signed and traded to you? It doesn’t say anything about it in Coon’s salary cap rules, but I’ve never heard of it happening.

      

    if you guys remember a little while back i posted a story about how phil weber told me this exact thing about david lee and how he really hurt the team this way. coaching staff really didn’t like it

  79. latke

    cgreene: that was re: kevin love article  

    yup cgreene, that’s what I was thinking of.

    Fun question time: If you were a betting man (or woman), which Knick would you bet on to appear in the most all-star games from 2011-12 season through the end of his career?

    STAT: 2:1
    Felton: 6:1
    Chandler: 7:1
    Gallinari: 8:1
    Fields: 10:1
    Randolph: 15:1
    Any other single player on knicks roster: 50:1

  80. Brian Cronin

    Gallo’s weird – he would definitely make one or two All Star games if he played for a shitty team (like Danny Granger).

    But I’d still take Amar’e.

  81. Caleb

    @95 Good contest but I’ll take the 2:1 on STAT – probably more like 1:2 or 1:3… he’ll be on the All-Star team every year until he’s out of the NBA. That’s probably 2 or 3, minimum, maybe 7 or 8.

    I’d put Anthony Randolph as second choice, easy. Heck, he might never be a starter but he’s the only other player with a ceiling as high as annual All-Star.

    Gallo and Chandler are nice players and since I expect the Knicks to be good, I think there’s at least 50-50 chance that one of them makes an All-Star team. Maybe a few, even.

    I’d put Fields at about 3:1 to ever making it… he’s never going to have the big numbers, or be better than a #3 option on a contender..

    Felton – I’d say this year is his big shot.

    The field? Azubuike or Walker has probably the best chance of ever making a game… but of being the most-starred player from 2011-2012? maybe 100:1.

  82. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, does seem like a no-brainer to at least try him over Mason.

    Imagine the Unit just with Williams running the point instead of Toney. I could see that working a lot better than the current Unit (although, it would be hard to work worse, right?).

  83. kburt8

    Hard to imagine anyone worth picking up falling behind Chris Duhon (he’s been horrible this year, even compared to last year) on the depth chart. I’ve read that Jason Williams has arthritis in his feet that is severely limiting his ability to contribute (no reputable sources, but food for thought).

  84. Jimmy C

    Not the most proficient 3 point shooter out there, and his nagging injuries might cause some concern, but you can’t tell me he wouldn’t be excited to run this kind of offense. Who knows though — I bet there’s plenty of teams out there ready to stake a claim.

  85. rama

    ess-dog:
    This.  

    Except that Mason is giving us nothing on the court, and we still are weak at the point, so…what would we lose, exactly?

    In other news, Mayo suspended for drugs. Shocker.

  86. rama

    Meanwhile, Rose has ulcers, and Wade will play tonight with dark glasses on because of the migraine.

    Who knew being a rich athlete was so stressful?

  87. Brian Cronin

    Duhon is signed for three more seasons, Williams’ contract is up after this year. I can see why they’d play Duhon over Williams – they’re stuck with Duhon.

  88. ess-dog

    rama:
    Except that Mason is giving us nothing on the court, and we still are weak at the point,

    are we though, really? our defense is first in giving up assisted baskets thanks to Felt and TD and Felton is having a career year. Toney is playing through injury. i think where we are weak is interior defense.

    Sure we can pick up Williams on a 10 day contract, but do you really think MDA will throw him out there? He should probably learn the system a little first and by then it will be the trade deadline and the team could be reconfigured anyway. Would he take some of Ray’s minutes? Toney’s minutes now that he’s actually playing better? Even if he does miraculously get 10 minutes a game, would that really affect a single win for us???

  89. Brian Cronin

    I think Toney has been playing better, but the improvement I’ve seen has mostly been when he’s playing as a 2 with Ray.

    He still looks lost when he actually controls the offense.

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