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Wednesday, July 30, 2014

Knicks 115 Nets 107, Preseason

The Knicks won their first preseason game against new jersey 115-107, although the score hardly matters considering the importance of the game. Some interesting tidbits from the boxscore:

  • New York was powered by +10 turnovers. The Nets coughed up the ball 24 times, but oddly no player had more than 3.
  • The Knicks also held the edge in eFG 50.6 to 48.5. New York hit 13 of 31 from downtown for a robust 41.9%. And they also had the offensive rebounding edge, 20.4% to 18.6%.
  • New Jersey had a field day at the line, scoring 41 singles.
  • Wilson Chandler had the best line for the Knicks. Ill Will had 21 points (7-13, 3-6 3pt, 4-7 ft) with 7 rebounds, 3 ast, 2 stl, and 1 blk. Chandler also led the team in minutes with 28.
  • I had a chuckle when Alan Hahn wrote positively about Jared Jeffries jumpshot. But Jeffries hit 3 of 4 from downtown. Still, I’m holding off from drinking the Kool-Aid until he starts doing this in the season. Or maybe another preseason game.
  • Toney Douglas is still having problems finding the bottom of the net. He went 2-9 including 0-4 from downtown. And Jordan Hill shot an even worse 1-8.
  • Gallo only had 9 points, but did chip in 4 ast, 5 reb, and a blocked shot.
  • David Lee was 9-15 for 20 pts with 9 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, and 1 blk.
  • 38 comments on “Knicks 115 Nets 107, Preseason

    1. rayhed

      hey mike, it looked like david lee was a bit bulkier last night… did he put on any muscle over the summer?

    2. Ted Nelson

      Didn’t see the game and my reaction is based only on the box score.

      Great to see Chandler leading the team in FTAs. I’ll be the first to admit my skepticism on him was wrong if he keeps it up (not on his actual performance in the past, but on his potential). It’s obviously going to take a bunch more games to convince me, but a big year from WC would be a nice surprise I definitely wasn’t counting on.

      I wonder what prompted Jared Jeffries to work on his 3-pt shot after three atrocious seasons from behind the line on the Knicks? D’Antoni, another coach, Walsh, his own initiative? People have been saying he should do it on this blog for a while, and he did hit 32% from deep his last season in Washington… Definitely makes him a lot closer to tradable or at least a Knicks rotation player.

      It’s only one preseason game, but nice to see that most of the disappointing performances were from guys/in areas we felt confident about. Nate, and Duhon didn’t stand out, but based on their historical performance those are among the guys to be least worried about. (Interested to see if Nate can keep up the efficient scoring of last year or takes a step back: he’s been low, up, down, up in his four seasons. Even if Duhon doesn’t play well the Knicks should have slightly more depth around/behind him to limit his minutes compared to last season.)
      Same goes for Gallinari’s shooting, which I don’t expect to match the .444 3p% and .621 TS% of his limited minutes last season, but should be solid. More important to see him making plays and blocking a shot.

      Disappointing from Hill, but I really want to see Eddy showcased when he’s back so I don’t mind. I thought the one thing we could count on from Douglas was a strong outside shot, but maybe Seth from Gorky’s link is right and he doesn’t have NBA range yet.

    3. rayhed

      a side note on JJ’s new and improved 3 ball… he did shoot one from the corner that was absolutely atrocious- i think it clanged off the side of the backboard… it was pretty funny because as he was shooting it, the announcers were just talking about how much work he put into his 3′s in the offseason

    4. Z

      I’m sure Jared Jeffries has gone 3-4 from 3 point range at some point in his life. I don’t think we can bank on it happening again for a looooonnnnngggg time.

      But Chandler, yes. I agree with Ted. If he shoots a decent FG% AND gets to the line more often, that alone will make the season worthwhile.

    5. DS

      I feel like Chandler did not lose his bad habits over the summer: he dribbled too much and disrupted ball movement. This is the sort of “good” game he’d have last year which he would follow up with a 9 point game on crappy FG% and thus his scoring would average out to 15 ppg. I’m glad he got to the line but the replacement refs seemed a bit whistle happy and he’ll see better D than the Nets’ back court. Hope I’m wrong!

      Didn’t Harrington look better to anyone?? He forced some shots, but moved the ball OK, and hustled all game.

      It’s great to see Gallo healthy if a bit rusty. We’ve seen him shoot better, but I don’t think we’ve seen him MOVE better.

      Lee looked great. His J looks like it’s slightly better but still not there.

      If Jeffries can hit three wide open 3-pointers a game for 25 – 30 games perhaps we can unload him!

    6. Z

      DS– I didn’t see the game (blacked out here in CA). Just read KB’s write up. Since I think KB also was just reading the box score, I’ll defer to your analysis re: Chandler.

      The difference between Chandler and Harrington is that Chandler is part of the Future and Harrington is probably just a stop-gap. He’s playing for his next contract which hopefully won’t be with the Knicks.

    7. DS

      Z – I agree. Harrington probably won’t be back and is probably on good behavior in anticipation of his final contract.

      You’re right to be focused on Chandler and I hope this season he can improve on either catching and shooting or slashing to the hoop rather than zig-zagging with the ball in traffic and falling away.

      Assuming there’s something to the notions that if they win more this year the team can trade some of their toxic assets and can more easily lure a big time free agent (I don’t know what really made Shaq go to L.A.), then it’s a very good thing for the long-term if the principals play with more fire and focus on D even if many of them walk this summer.

      The hustle on D was pretty good last night (albeit against the Nets and in the beginning of the year when no one’s exhausted. Also, opposing big men are going to be a problem. Brook Lopez looked like Bill Russell in the first half with Lee on him).

    8. Z-man

      DS and Z,
      I thought that Chandler had a very good game and not just as measured by eFG% or FT attempts. He was more aggressive in going directly to the basket rather than settling for the spinning fadeaway in the lane. True, he made a bunch of perimeter shots (his form looked really good,) but I felt that they were generally good shots in the flow of the offense; I could live with a 4-14 the next night if he plays a complete game, gets to the line, and doesn’t turn it into a 5-20 night by forcing the issue. He still has a ways to go and it is very early; Boston will be a much stiffer test of his progress. Whatever, for the first preseason game (and coming off ankle surgery) I was very happy with what I saw from him. His line speaks for itself (BTW, the one block was nasty!)

      I was concerned with the volume of 3′s we took, will that be the norm? Nice when your hitting them, but…

      Did anyone notice Douglas’s pursuit of rebounds and loose balls on the offensive end? He seems to have a great nose for the ball. As to TD’s shot, I am not worried yet. As well as he shot from the perimeter in college, he’ll pick it up. Seems like a very tough minded, driven, intelligent player.

    9. Ted Nelson

      Will be interesting to see how Chandler does…

      “I’m sure Jared Jeffries has gone 3-4 from 3 point range at some point in his life.”

      He hit 31.4% and 32% on 0.9 3PA/36 at 23 and 24, not good but not pitiful. I agree 3 for 4 will be very rare, but 1 for 3 regularly is possible.

      “It’s great to see Gallo healthy if a bit rusty. We’ve seen him shoot better, but I don’t think we’ve seen him MOVE better.”

      That was his game in Europe… I honestly (mistakenly it seems) didn’t think he was a great shooter when he was drafted and was still high on him. The way he shot last season I am very excited.

      “opposing big men are going to be a problem. Brook Lopez looked like Bill Russell in the first half with Lee on him).”

      Have to hope that healthy Curry and Darko will take Lee out of tough spots like that… Curry is a weak help defender but can put a body on a bigman down low.

      “Seems like a very tough minded, driven, intelligent player.”

      Definitely excited about him.

    10. Nick C.

      “He hit 31.4% and 32% on 0.9 3PA/36 at 23 and 24, not good but not pitiful. I agree 3 for 4 will be very rare, but 1 for 3 regularly is possible.”

      Well that’s almost Nate like, Nate was at 33.2 and 32.5 at 23 and 24 albiet in way more attempts 5.6 and 6.3/36. I don’t know if that’s praise of Jefferies or an insdictment of Nate, but as we all know there were tons of 3/4s from Nate so I don’t see why it’s not possible if Jeffries can get back to those levels.

    11. Mike Kurylo Post author

      Both Nate & Chandler were under 33% last year. Not that it’s ideal, but if Jeffries can form some semblance of an offense with a three point shot, it would be helpful to the team. Additionally if sticking to the perimeter will keep him out of the paint, where he’s just awful at finishing around the hoop, that’s just the icing on the cake.

      Of course this is all speculation. I’ll believe it when I see it. And if Jeffries does break out a decent 3 point shot, he should give Knick fans $17M for wasting the last 3 years.

    12. Ted Nelson

      Jeffries is also a TO machine, so standing around in the corner for spot-up jumpers is ideal.

      Saw on Hoopshype that Vecsey reports Walsh would have taken Curry over Rubio, and feels that Tyreke Evans was the 2nd best player in the draft. I guess you can only judge a GM by what he does, but it will be interesting to see how those guys all do going forward.

    13. Dan Panorama

      Any of you guys getting together for a Knickerblogger fantasy league on Yahoo or ESPN? I’d love to join a head to head league if anyone’s starting one up.

    14. Count Zero

      Hahahaha! Hahn reports Fat Eddy can’t practice with the team because he’s still not in NBA shape. Oh! I am so shocked! I really thought Eddy was going to be a lean, mean, basketball machine.

      Big Snacks redux. And just think — he has a player option for another year of breaking chairs on the sideline while he munches down cheeseburgers.

      There are bad trades…bad contracts…and bad GMs — but I don’t think any GM in history ever made as many bad trades and negotiated as many bad contracts in such a short span of time.

    15. Ricky_J

      I’ll do a fantasy league if there’s an opening.

      Does anyone know if it would be possible to ask Curry to opt out and re-sign him with Bird rights after other FAs? Or if he doesn’t get traded by year end, have him opt out and promise him something like $14mm over 2 years?

      I’m sure there are rules against either but I’m just trying to think of ways to open any amount of cap space…

    16. Dan Panorama

      Sounds like more than enough people to get this thing going and we now have a league set up. The league name is “2010 Starts Early” on yahoo and its id is 210135:

      http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba

      It’s head to head, usual stats (FG, FT, 3PM, PTS, AST, TO, RB, BL, ST), with a live draft the night of Monday, October 12. E-mail me at besarlin@gmail.com for the password or with questions. Looking forward to a good season online and offline!

    17. Brian Cronin

      Hey, anyone check out Dejuan Blair’s 16 point, 19 rebound game last night?

      The shooting was poor (6 for 15), but otherwise, wow.

    18. Brian Cronin

      Well, remembering our NBA Draft chat, a lot of us were quite disappointed that the Knicks passed on Mr. Blair in favor of our new back-up point guard of the future.

    19. Owen

      Alrght, back on the board. Good to be back. Summer hiatus is over, excited to get back to being a Knicks fan, i.e. a glutton for punishment….

      I would join you all in those fantasy leagues but I have two fired up already. And in one of them I am hoping I get the chance to pick up Dejuan Blair deep in the second round of my rookie draft . There are questions about long term longevity with Blair because of his knee issues, and I know people would say he couldn’t play for D’Antoni, but the idea that Jordan Hill is going to be a better player than Blair over the next five years is farfetched in my book. The guy has “next paul millsap” written all over him.

      Also re fantasy, despite the fact that I think some people I am competing against will read this, and despite the fact the product endorsement is not usually my bag, I have to recommend a fantasy site. It’s called Rotoevil and I won both my fantasy leagues last year using it. Really really great service, I found it through Roland Beech’s endorsement on 82games. The positional tiers cheat sheet is solid gold when you are drafting and the guy who runs it, Eric Wong, is very active in the forums and very helpful. Very easy to read too, with lots of very funny peripheral stuff. If you have any sort of money or pride on the line in a fantasy league you aren’t going to regret signing up, I promise…

      Alright, good to see you all, looking forward to sharing the March of the long winter of our discontent with y’all, spring is around the corner, I can feel it…

    20. Brian Cronin

      So wait, Lee was going to sign a deal for less money than Millsap’s offer sheet?

      How would the Knicks not match that?

    21. Z-man

      http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/62000/20091007/dantoni_nates_emotions_limited_him_to_1_year_contract/#

      This article from realgm via the Bergen Record quotes D’Antoni re: his frustration with Nate’s antics being responsible for the 1-year contract. Telling, esp. the part about how Nate continues his BS despite the fact that it has apparently cost him lots of $ already.

      “D’Antoni didn’t admit he wasn’t as high on keeping N8 as team president Donnie Walsh, but now that N8′s back, MD’A will again have to deal with the showboating and bluster the Little Guy is still demonstrating at almost every turn during practice scrimmages, when he’s griped at the refs hired to officiate them and celebrated routine baskets as if they’d won the NBA Finals.

      That’s part of what’s made him the extraordinary athlete he is, but MD’A has already told him that 12 technicals last season were far too many.

      “Nobody can ever stop him,” MD’A said. “He doesn’t need to stop himself.”"

      I hope D’Antoni takes a hard line with him.

    22. Owen

      Brian – Talk to the cap experts but I don’t think the Knicks wanted to commit 7 million for four years. That would mean there wouldn’t be enough money available to sign a max free agent in 2010 right?…

    23. Z

      4 years, 7 mil would have been a good long term deal for both Knicks and Lee.

      As Caleb has outlined many times, signing Lee at such a rate would have allowed for one max contract in 2010, but not two. Of course, without moving Jeffries or Curry, the Knicks are still shy of having room for two max signings, even without Lee locked up…

    24. Ted Nelson

      Z,

      ??? I think it’s very hard to call that a good long-term deal for Lee when Jared Jeffries will be making about $7 mill next season, Andrea Bargnani has 5 years 50 mill coming to him, Turkoglu just inked for even more money because of unsubstantiated hype, Charlie Villanueva will be making more than 28 mill over the next 4 seasons, and Stephen Jackson and Corey Maggette will make a combined $21 million in 2012/13…
      As it is, Lee is getting $7 mill this season, money should be looser next offseason, and he won’t be restricted. Maybe he blows out his knee tomorrow, but I think one year $7 mill was a far better move for Lee than 4 years $28 mill.
      I realize things have changed with the recession (probably only momentarily), but if you look around the league at salaries Lee would be a bargain for the Knicks on a long-term deal at $7 mill per. That’s just a touch over MLE money.

      Cap-wise, not committing any long-term money to Lee or Nate means that the Knicks can trade Jeffries but not Curry (putting them at $20.5 mill committed next season) and possibly have enough room for 2 max guys. Depends where the cap number is. I think Stern is bluffing, personally, and the number won’t fall much if at all. Walsh has come out and said that he was not willing to give either Nate or Lee a long-term deal, but who knows…

    25. Z

      Ted– Lee’s was competing against two other very similar players this year, and the market established all three of their values at right around $7 million/season. Maybe he will make more than both Millsap and Villanueva when it’s all said and done, but $28 mil guaranteed is not a bad deal in 2009.

      Besides, in the article, Lee essentially admits it was a good deal, and the main problem wasn’t the money but having to play behind Aldridge and Oden. (Or as lee put it: “LaMarcus and Aldridge”)…

    26. Ted Nelson

      Part of my point is that 2010 could be a better year to be a free agent than 2009.

      Another part of my point is that a lot of it is situational. I would say that Raymond Felton and Andrea Bargnani are clearly worse basketball players than David Lee (and probably Nate Robinson, too). Yet this offseason both of their teams wanted them back badly enough, for some logical but mostly illogical reasons, to offer $7 mill and $10 mill per (why Felton turned down Charlotte’s offer is beyond me… but maybe not as mind boggling as why Charlotte made the offer in the first place).
      Turkoglu was also the beneficiary of playing on a very good team. Orlando is a defensive team with a slightly above average offense. Turkoglu was the third or even forth best player on that offense. Somehow he’s worth over $10 mill per because he’s 6-10 and an ok passer??? Portland should send Bryan Colangelo a bonus for saving them from themselves.
      Lee was in a situation where teams had other options at PF and were unsure what the Knicks’ were willing to offer (the early rumors were that Walsh STARTED negotiations at $8 mill if I’m not mistaken… looks like that might have been pure chess, but it might have scared teams off). The Knicks themselves were in no rush to bring Lee back long-term.

      So, it was a bad year and Lee wasn’t in an ideal free agency situation. I think taking a big raise for one year and then waiting for next offseason was a smart move. (By the way, Walsh might have bought himself some goodwill with Lee next offseason by paying Lee $7 mill when the most he could have gotten from any other team at that point was the MLE.) Lee now has another season to prove that last season (and the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before that…) was not a fluke, and maybe show that he’s improved some parts of his game, and enter free agency when a lot of teams have money to spend. And even in this economy, teams that had money to spend spent it…

      I don’t think it was a bad deal for this year’s market, I just don’t think it was a good deal overall. Lee had another option, and he went with it.

    27. Z

      Ted– I think we all understand Lee’s reasoning (He says it himself in the article: “I’m really conservative, so for me to take a financial risk like this is completely out of character.”). Like you said, he’s a torn ACL away from looking pretty bad financially (by comparison). Maybe he’ll pocket more than Millsap over the course of his career and maybe he won’t. (But I agree in the most part with your initial response to my statement, just thought the three question marks preceding it made me look a little more bat-shit crazy than I deserved… :)

      Anyway, I haven’t done a depth chart for 2010 free agents, but at the PF I’d have to think these guys will get offers before Lee: Bosh, Amare, Nowitski, Aldridge. Once you get past that “top tier”, Lee probably leads the way, but beneath him will be dozens and dozens of cheaper alternatives that can do at least some of what Lee can do. So, we’ll see if Lee’s agent is good or bad in about nine months….

    28. Ted Nelson

      Didn’t mean to make you look bat-shit crazy.

      You raise a valid point about PF being strong in 2010. That could mean a game of musical chairs where teams that lose their PF are looking (even desperately) for a replacement. (Although Dallas, for example, could easily stop that with Marion… Utah has a PF to spare theoretically with Boozer, Millsap, and then AK-47 also their for depth.)

      Will also be a matter of situation/need, obviously. The same team that’s looking at maybe Dirk might not look at Lee. Both because one team might be looking for a vet scorer (and likely be outbid by Dallas wiht his bird rights), while the other team is looking for
      Boozer will probably find a home, but I would stay away from he and Aldridge at the money they’re likely to command. Bosh and Amare also might not be worth max-$, but I’m 100% sure they’ll get it. Dirk I might stay away from long-term.

      There a significant drop after those top guys, so Lee hasn’t got a ton of direct comp and leads the way as you say. Scola and Josh Boone are restricted. Haslem is an UFA. Maybe someone looking for a scorer on a short deal actually takes Harrington over him. After that (and possibly including Harrington and/or Haslem) it’s guys who will be looking at small deals and fighting to make a rotation.

      My experience is that when teams have cap space they want to throw it at the first FA who walks by and make sure they use it all that offseason. So, I think Lee’s decision to wait is wise.
      I think it’s especially wise to turn down a 4 year deal at $7 mill per when he’s getting that much this season anyway. Turning that down vs. taking his QO would have been a much harder choice. If he thinks he can get $9+ mill per optimistically and $8 mill easily, over a 4 year deal the different between 7 and 8 mill per is lost if he takes the QO instead of signing the deal today. As it stands, he’s getting the $7 mill already and has a good shot at a raise next offseason.

    29. Ted Nelson

      In the end this really does seem to be the best compromise for both sides, given their wants/needs.

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