Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, November 24, 2014

Knicks 113, Nets 83

New York Knicks 113 Final
Recap | Box Score
83 Brooklyn Nets
Kenyon Martin, PF 25 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 4 AST | 2 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 2 PTS | +23

Some solid battlin’ and grindin’ on defense, though his particular brand of bully-ball wasn’t really needed tonight. I’m just impressed that out of all the personal grudges that had a chance to spill over into actual conflict tonight, he somehow managed not to be involved in a single one. Good game, K-Mart. Let’s see it against a real team.

Andrea Bargnani, PF 28 MIN | 7-13 FG | 1-1 FT | 2 REB | 3 AST | 1 STL | 3 BLK | 1 TO | 16 PTS | +11

In the beginning, before the great massacre of Brooklyn had truly begun, Bargs played some solid post defense on the aggressor, Brook Lopez. Hehit his share of mid-range shots, going 5-6 start, before bricking a slew in the third quarter. Maybe it’s just me, but this feels like a thing. Is it possible that he’s still not really in game shape following this summer’s illness? Anyway, that’s a question for another day, because the important thing is that in the first quarter, Bargs did this.

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The two were getting awfully testy throughout the game, including a moment in which Bargs planted a kiss on Kevin’s you-could-probably-sharpen-a-Ginsu-on-them-firm cheekbones

KGBargsSweetNothings

It’s a European thang

And after the game had gotten out of hand, during a scramble for a loose ball, he proceeded to grab at KG’s nether-regions (see what I did there?), which led to a genuine scrum, where KG (of course) raised his arms in the air, innocent as a newborn babe, while jabbing his knees into our Italian amico.

Followed hard upon by Andrea banging home a long two right in his grill…

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… leading up to some of the finest trash talking EVAH, and even if in all likelihood, Joey “Old man baby/baby old man face” Crawford couldn’t understand a word he was saying, it led to Bargs getting tossed.

CrawfordTossesBargsStaredown

BECAUSE BOOM, YOU DON’T MESS WITH ANDREA FREAKING BARGNANI. THAT’S IT. I KNOW I RAILED AD NAUSEAM AGAINST THE TRADE AND THERE ARE LOTS OF SOLID REASONS TO WISH HE WERE PLYING HIS TRADE IN ANOTHER (POSSIBLY FOREIGN) TOWN, BUT ANY GENT WHO TRIES TO PERFORM GENDER-ALTERING SURGERY ON KEVIN GARNETT AND TRASH TALKS HIM IS ALL RIGHT IN MY BOOK AND CAN MARRY MY SISTER.

Here’s what he had to say in the post-game presser

Also, whenever he smiles, he looks like that moment in Fight Club when Edward Norton grins during the meeting and has a mouthful of blood. IN SUM, GO TEAM BARGS! Good game, Drea. Now let’s see it against a real team

Carmelo Anthony, SF 31 MIN | 8-12 FG | 2-2 FT | 10 REB | 6 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 19 PTS | +24

Just a splendid game from Melo. He rarely forced his own shot, made numerous dandy passes when the Nets trapped, both to shooters on the weak side and in particular when working as the ballhandler in the pick and roll with STAT, and was a beast on the boards. That the frustrating thing about our soon-to-be free agent; you see a game like tonight (and, to be fair, for vast stretches last season) and wonder why he can’t do that on a consistent basis. I don’t mean to sound critical, especially on an evening when the Knicks ripped what’s left of the Brooklynites’ decrepit, aging, overpaid heart out of their chests and made them watch it burn, Mola Ram-style, but Melo practically demands that the Mormon Tabernacle Choir belt out a sonata entitled, “YES, BUT.” Still, Good game, Melo. Let’s see it against a real team.

Raymond Felton, PG 29 MIN | 5-9 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 4 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 13 PTS | +30

Felton started out cooking a scrummy bowl of delicious soup from outside, and your intrepid correspondent worried that it’d lead to one of those evenings (like last season – that’s gonna be a bit of a theme in this here recap) where he took the increasing BTU’s of heat emanating from his flippers as a sign that fadeaway 20 footers when the defense collapsed into the paint was a good thing. Luckily, he didn’t, spending the majority of his floor time helping to whip the ball around the perimeter and helping to revive the stone-dead Lazarus that was the Knicks’ nifty ball movement. Good game, Ray. Let’s see it against a real team.

Iman Shumpert, SG 23 MIN | 5-8 FG | 2-2 FT | 6 REB | 0 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 17 PTS | +19

I love Shump. I will brook no breathily whispered rumors about his immaturity or the constantly-burbling trade rumors. Why? Because I love Shump. I love his swag. I love that he was sooper-confident in taking (and making) open threes. I love that when the Nyets finally did close out hard, he took it strong to the rim. I love that he picked his spots when going for steals, but for the most part, was content to stay in front of Joe Johnson and contest his bad (and boy, is it fun to watch a team that’s NOT the Knicks run a brackish-ly stagnant offense that only yields ineffective, midrange ISO jumpers) shots. I love the way he soars in for rebounds on offense and defense alike (and he’s the one guard on the roster that looks to push the tempo in transition). I do not like that he wandered away from JR at the end of the first half after the latter went tumbling into photographers row, leaving Prigs to pick him up, rub his belly and tell him he’s special (I think Prigs’ nurturing skillz could coax a smile out of freaking Joan Baez).

That’s the kind of thing that leads people to conclude that all of the scurrilous leaks that someone’s (His agent? The Knicks FO? Julian Assange?) floating to the ink-stained wretches are entirely true. But still, good ga… eff it, GREAT GAME, Iman. Let’s see it against a real team.

Amar’e Stoudemire, PF 19 MIN | 5-6 FG | 1-2 FT | 4 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 1 TO | 11 PTS | +12

I’m an etymology fan. Learning how words were cobbled together always tickles my fantasy. For example, nostalgia. The general assumption/common usage involves sepia tones, soft music and fuzzy memories, but the word itself is derived from Ancient Greek combination of nostos, (“a return home”) and algos (“pain, suffering”). So when Amar’e comes from the weak side to snuff out Joe Johnson at the rim

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Or casually drains a 15 footer when his man backs off, there’s certainly pleasure, but it’s also inexorably framed by the knowledge that it’s gone; that these are but fleeting moments of light emanating from an ever-dimming candle or the taste of a madeleine, sending one back, Proust-like (if ever so briefly) into the halcyon days of 2010, when this was the air we breathed. You smile (and tonight, I certainly did) but it’s still sad, ya know? Good game, STAT. Let’s see it against a real team.

Metta World Peace, SF 9 MIN | 1-1 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 3 PTS | -1

Not sure I get the whole “Play Metta for a minute when a defensive stop is needed unless we’re entering serious gar-BAHJ (And though Breen’s a close second, Marv Albert is still the play-by-play GAWD. His use of the soft J alone is pure aural gold.) time” thing. It’s been the case for the last 3-4 games, and considering it usually consists of one goofed rotation, followed by 47-odd minutes of stewing on the bench and/or pondering new and exciting ways to troll the beat guys, I’m not sure it’s doing anyone (except for the beat guys) any good.

Cole Aldrich, C 7 MIN | 0-1 FG | 2-2 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 1 BLK | 1 TO | 2 PTS | -3

Hi Cole!

Pablo Prigioni, PG 13 MIN | 2-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 3 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 5 PTS | +3

Interesting thing to take a look at. Prigs and Bargs just don’t seem to play nice together.

Screen Shot 2013-12-06 at 12.48.20 AM

Now, we’re still deep inside the belly of the small sample size Kraken, and this could be more a question of the lack of two-PG units, but maybe (just maybe) we’ll see an uptick in playing time once Tyson heals. It’s a night of hope, dontcha know. Good game, Prigs. Let’s see it against a real team.

Beno Udrih, PG 7 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 2 PTS | -3

Hi Beno!

Toure’ Murry, SG 7 MIN | 1-4 FG | 1-2 FT | 0 REB | 1 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 3 PTS | -3

TOURE’ MURRY 2013-14 ANAGRAM: YE RUMOR RUT. Hmmmmmmmmmmm…. this means something. Some nice finishes at the tin. Good game, Rumor Rut. Let’s see it against a real team.

Tim Hardaway Jr., SG 19 MIN | 5-11 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 12 PTS | +9

Timmy on the break is an effing glorious thing, mang. He still takes a few too many Earl III-ish off-balance heaves for one’s liking, but boy, it’d be fun to see him play on an actual up-tempo team. There’s (again) a longer convo to be had about whether his presence makes JR wholly unnecessary, but for now, good game, Junior. Let’s see it against a real team.

And keep up the boffo celebrations. Hopefully, you’ll have more n’more reasons to do so as the season progresses.

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J.R. Smith, SG 25 MIN | 3-6 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 8 PTS | +29

Over the last three tumultuous days, there’s been (in addition to the talk that Melo’s gone/the idea that the Knicks could’ve somehow traded for LaMarcus Aldridge instead of Bargs [Ha!]/Jeff Van Gundy will be coaching the team before Kwanzaa/what kind of pasta is the best [shells, duh]) some chatter that JR’s knee is bothering him, which is kind of to be expected. Maybe that’s why JR resisted the urge to barrel into a slew of defenders or force up awkward looking, possession-killing shots. Maybe we can ask Shane Stant to take a police baton to Smith’s knee once every few days if it’ll keep him under control. “By Any Means Necessary”: The Story of the 2013-14 New York Knickerbockers, now available in Kindle and at bookstores (Ha!) everywhere.

Mike Woodson

You get a sweet creamery A+, Mikey. Just for playing Melo at PF. And you can keep your job. For now…

Four Things We Saw

  1. The anticipation leading up to tonight’s tilt was kind of like the sans-culottes in 1794, they were thirsting for blood, filled with rage and wanted nothing more than to point, gibber, giggle and seethe as the heads of the royalist NY teams were led up to the guillotine/TNT national broadcast. Take a peep.

  2. Of course, because the only predictable thing about the Knicks is that they’re completely unpredictable, we finally (FINALLY) saw a reasonable facsimile of the offense that spun pure platinum for the bulk of last season. Melo drew gobs of attention in the low post, and then smartly kicked the ball out, which swing around the perimeter until it found a wide-open shooter. Said shooter finally (FINALLY) buried jumpers galore, leading to fancy-tickling 16-27 from distance. In between, there were tons of deft pick and roll sets, and screens set not just for the ball handler but for the screener. You know, an actual offensive game plan. Hallelujah!
  3. Granted, the opponent tonight wasn’t exactly top-notch. The defense was stifling, but with the Nets looking so slow and sluggish it was as if they were playing on a court made of fridge-cold pea soup all night, it’s hard to get a sense if they’ve actually improved. In addition, the Nets refused (I guess Jason Kidd is still making the Knicks better. I bow before the great God Intangibles.) to run any pick and rolls, save for a stretch in the second quarter when they whittled the lead down to three. If Deron Williams (or Paul Pierce, or AK-47, or Jason Terry, or a still-breathing KG) were around, that might’ve been different, but even with the personnel at hand, it was stunning to finally encounter an opponent that didn’t take advantage of the ‘Bockers most glaring weakness. So yes, the streak hath ended. And yes, I suggest all y’all celebrate to your heart’s content (I certainly did), and if the improvements on offense are real (That’s a huge ‘if’. The Fuggedaboutits play an even lazier brand of D than our lads do) they might just be able to climb out of this ghastly 4-13 hole, but this is still just one game.
  4. Screw that. It’s a win. A convincing win. Against those bastids. Against that venomous swine KG, and the traitor Kidd. And Deron Williams and his stoopid neck beard. Suffer, Dorothy. We beatcha. By THIRTY. Schadenfreude or not, we win, you lose, goddamnit. I revel in their misery and our glory! KNICKS WIN. CHAMPEENSHIP HERE WE COME!!!!!1!
  5. And that’ll just about do it. To close, (And I’m sorry if this isn’t the proper forum for this) here are some thoughts from the great Muhammad Ali on the death of Nelson Mandela.

    “I am deeply saddened by the passing of Mr. Mandela. His was a life filled with purpose and hope; hope for himself, his country and the world. He inspired others to reach for what appeared to be impossible and moved them to break through the barriers that held them hostage mentally, physically, socially and economically. He made us realize, we are our brother’s keeper and that our brothers come in all colors. What I will remember most about Mr.Mandela is that he was a man whose heart, soul and spirit could not be contained or restrained by racial and economic injustices, metal bars or the burden of hate and revenge. He taught us forgiveness on a grand scale. His was a spirit born free, destined to soar above the rainbows. Today his spirit is soaring through the heavens. He is now forever free.”

    —Muhammad Ali

86 comments on “Knicks 113, Nets 83

  1. SirJim

    Boy, is it ever nice to read a recap about a game I was excited to watch.

    I know we were pummeling the reeling Nets, who don’t even seem as good as their record this season would suggest, but there was a lot to this game. Ball movement, defense, smart play, and no serious “What the hell is this about?” play from any particular player. It’s not going to happen every night (we’re 4-13, so…yeah), but it was beautiful to watch tonight.

    Now the Knicks just have to remember this, and how it got them 54 wins and farther into the playoffs than we’ve been in 13 years. I’m not counting on any 51 game win streaks, but this team is not as bad as the record suggests.

    Get it done, ‘bockers.

  2. ruruland

    “With a win like this, we definitely get our confidence back and get our mojo, our swag back,” Amar’e Stoudemire said.

    As far as the Nets not being a real team, they recently beat Memphis on the road with the same players uniform that they had tonight. They’re bad, and will get a lot better, but they’re not last years Bobcats.

    Also, prior to last night, the Knicks had played the toughest schedule in the league in their previous 10 games.

    Here’s something to think about.

    We remember the 6-10 stretch from early February to mid-March last season, right?

    When the cools kids proclaimed the season over and people like Matt Moore were beating their chests about correctly predicting a downfall after the hot start to the year (boosted by unsustainable 3-pt shooting)?

    That stretch was followed by a 16-2 tear to end the season, and this board was as dead as its ever been since I’ve posted (it always is when the Knicks play well.)

    Chew on this.

    In that 16 game stretch, the most difficult part of the schedule, when Melo was hobbled and then out (and people like Robin Lundberg claimed he was faking injuries) the Knicks had a -4.75 scoring margin.

    In these 17 games — also the most difficult part of the schedule–playing without one of its top players for much of it, New York has a -4.1 scoring margin.

    Last year, the Knicks survived that stretch with close wins over Golden State, Minnesota and Cleveland.

    This year, the Knicks have lost all but one of their close games (against Atlanta), while losing to the Bulls, Rockets, Bobcats, Pacers, Nuggets, Pelicans in winnable games.

    cont..

  3. ruruland

    Had the Knicks defeated the Pacers (which they obviously should have), and either Melo’s 4-pt play against Houston counts (as it should have) or Rose doesn’t hit a behind-the-backboard-miracle (among other alternate universe outcomes in other close games), New York would be sitting with the same record it had in the worst stretch of last year in virtually the same circumstances.

    If you didn’t read any of that, the start to this season could very well be the terrible 16 game stretch of last year, the difference being the Knicks going 1-6 in close games when they went 3-4 last season.

    It doesn’t fit any narrative, and it won’t get repeated in the echo chamber (heaven forbid anyone have a dissenting opinion or try to flip a narrative on its ear without being patronizing to any1 outside of the club, aka dumb Knicks fans.)

    I’ll keep posting these kinds of arguments as long as Mike lets me.

  4. DRed

    It doesn’t fit any narrative, and it won’t get repeated in the echo chamber (heaven
    forbid anyone have a dissenting opinion or try to flip a narrative on its ear without
    being patronizing to any1 outside of the club, aka dumb Knicks fans)

    Stop being a killjoy after wins. You are far from the only one who has noticed that we’re not as bad as our record and we’re going to start playing an easier schedule. See if you can make it the rest of the season without using the phrase ‘cool kids’.

  5. ephus

    Because the 4th quarter was not competitive, the starting unit should be reasonably rested for tonight’s game.

  6. flossy

    It doesn’t fit any narrative, and it won’t get repeated in the echo chamber (heaven forbid anyone have a dissenting opinion or try to flip a narrative on its ear without being patronizing to any1 outside of the club, aka dumb Knicks fans.)

    I’ll keep posting these kinds of arguments as long as Mike lets me.

    Please climb down off the cross.

  7. mcliff05

    Becuase of the context leading into last nights game it was easy for all of us to really enjoy what we were watching. Ball movement, 60% from 3, the return of Shump, effecient Melo. But the overwhelming highlight was Bargs punky KG. I knew that moment instantly endeared himself to this fanbase.

    Seriously though its maddeninly frustrating to know we have this type of potential but fall into the same traps of iso-ball, Woody’s shitty rotation de jour & lackluster D. Last night was like watching the Good version of the Knicks play the bad version of the Knicks.

  8. MarcusRinaldi

    One thing I want to mention is that while I see on numerous occasions people asking for Cole Aldrich to get minutes, this would be good for no parties involved. Obviously it’s a “we don’t know until we see,” but there is nothing that this guy has ever done to prove he is nothing more than a end of the bench guy. I really don’t understand how he possibly played as good as he did at Kansas, other then to think maybe he inflated his stats in the lesser games like many players do. If he was going to get minutes, the only way it happens is if Amare gets benched. If only we could have Amare on offense, and then hockey sub for Cole on defense quickly. Anyways…. I made sure to watch this whole game because you never know when you’re going to have a real feel good Knicks game tonight… If we win again tonight AND have that same ball movement again, I may begin to like the son of wood again

  9. pablopilot

    Maybe I’m wrong and the Knicks aren’t completely hosed. I really, really hope so. They looked great last night — real ball movement! But man, the Nets looked awful!!! And who isn’t injured on that godforsaken team?!? Great to take full advantage of a bad team, and really great to see Bargs give KG a taste of his own meds. So maybe they’re not hosed. But unless they can build on last night and put together a little streak, a win against the depleted, poorly constructed Nets didn’t mean all that much.

  10. MarcusRinaldi

    Dred you know that was garbage time right? When we had Toure throwing it off that backboard and not even hitting rim, and Beno hitting the side of the back board. If you really think Cole Aldrich could have defended Brook Lopez better last night, and could have had a better overall game then Bargnani, than we might be thinking of two totally different people, or you’re smoking some real good stuff. This is the same Cole Aldrich who has in 5 seasons has seen a grand total of action in 92 games. The same Cole Aldrich who is about as quick on rotations as Amare… I get that we were extremely lucky to have Lin and Copeland turn into serviceable players for us out of the 15 spot on our roster, but Cole Aldrich is not that player. Jeremy Tyler plays his second game tonight in the D League, and if it goes well there’s no doubt in my mind he’ll be back with the team in a week or two and you can more than likely not have to worry about Aldrich ever playing again. Does the guy go after rebounds? Sure, but other then that there isn’t much he offers. College and NBA are so totally different that it’s not that big of a surprise people can have success that doesn’t translate. Nothing against the kid, but I get so frustrated seeing people on this board really think Cole Aldrich gives us the best chance to win.

  11. Jonathan Topaz

    One thing I want to mention is that while I see on numerous occasions people asking for Cole Aldrich to get minutes, this would be good for no parties involved. Obviously it’s a “we don’t know until we see,” but there is nothing that this guy has ever done to prove he is nothing more than a end of the bench guy.

    This team ranks 25th in rebounding rate and defensive efficiency, and sorely lacks a rim protector. Cole Aldrich’s 17% career rebounding rate would rank him best on the team among healthy players. His per/36 numbers last year were 9 points/11 boards, and two years ago were 12 points/10 boards. He may not be Hakeem Olajuwon, but he has great per-minute numbers and fills an obvious need for this team. If there is a statistical argument for why playing Cole would be “no good,” I’d like to hear it, but playing the guy 15 minutes per game seems to make a whole lot of sense to me.

  12. JK47

    Cole Aldrich has played 700+ minutes in his career. Not a tiny sample. He consistently averages over 10 rebounds per 36 minutes, and consistently maintains solid scoring efficiency. Last night he played seven minutes, pulled down a couple of rebounds, blocked a shot, sank a couple of free throws, and still everybody’s like “Cole Aldrich should never see the floor under any circumstances.”

    I just don’t understand. The guy looks like a perfectly legit backup center to me, especially considering our other backup center options are not, by any stretch of the imagination, centers.

  13. Mike Kurylo

    If you didn’t read any of that, the start to this season could very well be the terrible 16 game stretch of last year, the difference being the Knicks going 1-6 in close games when they went 3-4 last season.

    Pythagoranically the Knicks should be 6-11 instead of 4-13.

    One thing I want to mention is that while I see on numerous occasions people asking for Cole Aldrich to get minutes, this would be good for no parties involved. Obviously it’s a “we don’t know until we see,” but there is nothing that this guy has ever done to prove he is nothing more than a end of the bench guy. I really don’t understand how he possibly played as good as he did at Kansas, other then to think maybe he inflated his stats in the lesser games like many players do.

    Clearly you were not here during the David Lee era, and I have no desire to relive the argument that players who put up stats in small minutes aren’t getting them inflated due to inferior competition. In just 20 minutes this year, Aldrich has 11 rebounds and a blocked shot. I don’t know about you, but I’d like to see the Knicks to get that kind of production out of the center spot every game. In 10 times the minutes Amar’e has just 2 blocked shots, one of them from yesterday. If you gave Aldrich 20 minutes a night, he’d have more rebounds than Amar’e does now, in about 4 or 5 games – and that’s based on his career average. He’d also have 8 total blocks, which would put him 3 behind Kenyon Martin in about 1/3 of the minutes.

  14. Mike Kurylo

    Cole Aldrich has played 700+ minutes in his career. Not a tiny sample. He consistently averages over 10 rebounds per 36 minutes, and consistently maintains solid scoring efficiency. Last night he played seven minutes, pulled down a couple of rebounds, blocked a shot, sank a couple of free throws, and still everybody’s like “Cole Aldrich should never see the floor under any circumstances.”

    I just don’t understand. The guy looks like a perfectly legit backup center to me, especially considering our other backup center options are not, by any stretch of the imagination, centers.

    +1

    This is the same exact thing people said of David Lee.

    It’s like I’m in the twilight zone, reliving the past. So Bargnani reminds me of Curry, Aldrich of David Lee, and current Knicks president Steve Mills is reminiscent of Steve Mills.

  15. Nick C.

    Other than not being a white American NBA player what does Tyler have to offer or has he done to make him a better option than Aldrich?

  16. DRed

    Do I think Cole Aldrich could have held the mighty Brook Lopez to 24 points on 9-18 shooting? Yeah, I do. Lopez got 8 offensive rebounds. He doesn’t do that with the Cole train in there. Do I think he could have driven past an embarrassingly statuesque Kevin Garnet and thrown down a vicious one-handed dunk? No.

  17. MarcusRinaldi

    If you’re going to throw in their his per 36 numbers, which I don’t look at too seriously because some players are meant as “energy players” like the Birdman and can’t sustain that for a whole 36 minutes, look at his foul percentage per 36 minutes. In 2011 it was 7.6, in 12 it was 4.6, in 13 it was 5.6, and in the majority of those games, the 30 in Houston, it was 6.9 for 2013. My point being, you can’t look at per36 stats and draw that much out of them in all categories. I did say he’s a decent rebounder, but when do we see this, in garbage time. Throw him in there against Bynum, Hibbert, Drummond, and heck even Noah, and I highly doubt you’d see him be as effective on the boards. I personally just don’t see where you guys find him the minutes. Bargnani has clearly been one of our most consistent scorers, and although some of you can’t stand him, we need him right now. Do you take Kenyon Martin’s minutes? Don’t see how you do that considering he is our best defensive player right now, one of our better passers, and a solid rebounder. So that leaves you with Amare. If you want to take his minutes away be my guest, but when you’re paying him 28 million or something ridiculous, I don’t see that happening. There’s just no plausible way to find the guy minutes, and I just haven’t seen anything that has made him deserve minutes. Rebounding alone isn’t enough for me to give the guy minutes

  18. Mike Kurylo

    If there is a statistical any reasonable argument for why playing Cole would be “no good,” I’d like to hear it, but playing the guy 15 minutes per game seems to make a whole lot of sense to me.

    I fixed that for you…

  19. JK47

    Nobody is saying to play him for 36 minutes. We’re saying to play him for 10-15 minutes, in which case the foul issue is, well, not an issue. Or I suppose we could go with the alternative and keep giving Kenyon Martin 25 minutes a game, and then when he inevitably breaks down we can all cry about it.

  20. MarcusRinaldi

    It’s a sad state the Knicks are in when we’re comparing Cole Aldrich to being a potential David Lee situation lol… I’m a big Knick optimist, but that must require a New York Knick Genie to pop out of a bottle and grant us a wish. And in that case, I’d be wishing for Amare Stoudemaire to retire so we have a cap space again

  21. MarcusRinaldi

    Just a quick note, I had the luxury (Unfortunate?) of seeing the Bucks play a preseason game earlier this year, and they have an 18 year old rookie named Giannis Antetokounmpo, and he looks like he could have major potential. He plays a true three spot, and he’s nearing 7 feet tall, but the scariest part is he looks poised and comfortable playing in the NBA already at 18… Not sure if anyone is had seen anything on this, but curious to see if anyone else had noticed him.

  22. Owen

    Giannis the Adonis! Everyone has heard of him, if they are married to a Greek. Although the Greeks seem exponentially more interested in him now that he is in the NBA.

    Giannis looks like he might have the game to join the ranks of Batum, Leonard, and Deng in the highly effective two way plastic man category. Still really raw though, could easily bust….

    How anyone can argue against ten minutes of Cole is beyond me. This team needs a guy who does nothing but rebound and defend out there right now.

  23. Mike Kurylo

    If you’re going to throw in their his per 36 numbers, which I don’t look at too seriously because some players are meant as “energy players” like the Birdman and can’t sustain that for a whole 36 minutes, look at his foul percentage per 36 minutes.

    And there’s your problem. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what per minute stats are and what they mean. Per minute stats generally stay the same whether the player plays 10 minutes or 40 minutes. This is true for all players. Whether it be Carmelo Anthony or Cole Aldrich. It is also true for “energy players” like Ben Wallace, Kirilenko, Marion, or the Birdman. Actually it’s especially true for energy players, because if I’m getting your definition correctly these are players that rely on rebounding, steals, blocks, etc. for production.

    The thought that doing this against inferior talent skews stats for guys like Cole Aldrich is a myth. I’ve disproved it here:
    http://knickerblogger.net/one-more-nail-in-the-anti-per-minute-arguments-coffin/

    You should probably read this too, although outdated: http://knickerblogger.net/a-laymans-guide-to-advanced-nba-statistics/

  24. mokers

    I think Aldrich deserves minutes. Even when Chandler is healthy, our backup is Kenyon Martin. If Chandler is in foul trouble, and Martin is nursing an injury, you can’t have Amar’e and Bargnani as the only big men off the bench. Not only do they have to be playing extremely well on offense to justify the downgrade on defense, they both have been injury prone over the last few years. There will be plenty of opportunities to get Cole minutes. I think that Tyler has more upsdie, but he is also coming off an injury, so why rush him back? Cole needs to defend the post and rebound, this teem has enough need in that area to get him on the court.

  25. Mike Kurylo

    Bargnani has clearly been one of our most consistent scorers, and although some of you can’t stand him, we need him right now.

    I vomited in my mouth a little reading that. Bargnani is shooting well, but the Knicks defense is 11.1 points worse per 100 possessions with him on the floor. His overall +/- is -13.0. Putting him at center, the most crucial defensive and rebounding position on the floor, for 20-30 minutes a game is like … it’s so fucking stupid I can’t come up with a proper analogy without offending someone.

    And yes for those doing the math at home, that means the offense is doing worse with him on the floor as well.

  26. DRed

    or 20-30 minutes a game is like … it’s so fucking stupid I can’t come up with a proper analogy without offending someone.

    Pants on head differently enabled?

  27. MarcusRinaldi

    Mike, if we don’t get our offense from Bargnani, who the scores? I mean I’d love to see Shumpert and THJR playing more than JR and be scoring, but right now Woodson is stuck on his Pipe love, and the Pipe cannot score with any consistency. Bargs has that mid range shot down, and it has been good at times. I’ll be the first to admit his defense is laughable at times, but they have been so poor offensively so far this year, that Woodson hasn’t had a choice. With your wide knowledge and intelligence for statistics, I can’t for the life of me understand why you guys see potential in Aldrich for making us so much better when you actually see him play. Projection statistics can be your basis for all you want, but it doesn’t mean that that’s going to happen when given minutes. I really hope you guys get your wish and Aldrich gets minutes, because the guy doesn’t have athleticism to play defense at a high level in the NBA. If you think its bad watching Amare get blown by off the dribble, It’d be fun to watch the same happen to Aldrich. I remember before Linsanity hit seeing him play in a few games, and I actually thought that this kid can dribble penetrate and create for others. When I watch Murray play, I see some offensive creativity there in his ability to get to the hoop. I’m sitting here shaking my head that you guys really believe Cole Aldrich would be a great defensive player for us.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wlzPP_tFZU – Aldrich defense in college just for fun, seeing someone get postered is always entertaining. This is not evidence at all for my point, just for fun. Look, there’s nothing you guys can say that will convince me that Aldrich has “David Lee potential”. I’m gonna let the argument go and just say I’m happy the ball movement was there last night, and here’s to hoping they can keep it up so when Chandler gets back, we can be a two-way team. 1 stat matters to me right now and that’s wins.

  28. MarcusRinaldi

    Dred I’m not sure If I mentioned but I said it was for fun since everyone else had links? You’re sarcasm is awesome and is always appreciated though, thanks for making my day 40 times better with your snide comments :) Also he dunked twice on him, I didn’t know if you saw it correctly, just making sure though.

  29. JK47

    Scottie Pippen was a shitty defensive player. I know this because I saw John Starks dunk on him.

    Seriously, Marcus, you’re telling us Cole Aldrich can’t play in the NBA because he fails your personal eye test. The 700+ minutes he has played shows he can rebound and can score efficiently. This is an advanced stats blog, and the argument “Player A sucks because I watched him play and I say so” is going to fall on deaf ears around here.

  30. Zanzibar

    Bargnani on court statistics courtesy of NBAWOWY

    Knick PPP/Opponents PPP/Difference

    Oct 29 to Present 1.044/1.112…….-.068 (last 17 games)
    Nov 8 to Present 1.057/1.095…….-.051 (last 13 games)
    Nov 18 to Present 1.072//1.102……-.030 (last 8 games)
    Nov 27 to Present 1.105/1.066…….+.039 (last 4 games)

    Notice the trend – Woodson’s gotten smarter about where to play Bargs. Italian crow al dente (to the ego) now being served in the Knickerblogger main dining room. Plenty to go around. Second helpings for JK47, DRed, Owen, Jowles, Mike K, David V…….

  31. MarcusRinaldi

    Per/36 Last year Hasheem Thabeet averaged 9.1 rebounds, 7.5 points per game, and 2.8 blocks, with a 14.5 percent rebound rate. He played over 700 minutes and in 60 games. With him on the floor there offensive rating was 110, and defensive was 99. This proves he is an extremely efficient scorer, a solid rebounder, a great rim protector because of the blocks, and deserves 15 to 20 minutes a night. We should trade for him immediately. Andris Biedrins played 495 minutes last year, which isn’t a whole lot, but in it, his per/36 was 11.1 total rebounds, 3.1 blocks and his advanced total rebounding was 17.0%. He shot 47.5% from the floor so he’s a efficient scorer, solid rim protector, and an amazing rebounder. He also should be on our radar.

  32. JK47

    Both of those guys would be viable backup centers for us, and would deserve more than zero minutes in this team, which is 4-13 if you haven’t noticed.

  33. MarcusRinaldi

    …. I’m at a loss of words if you think HASHEEM THABEET and ANDRIS BIEDRINS should be playing and getting minutes.. at an absolute loss JK47. I’m done arguing, my whole point there was to show stats aren’t everything and can be misleading about player, but wow I give up. You’re in denial about statistics

  34. Owen

    I would take all those guys over Bargnani. Unless Woodson has solved the problem of how to not get murdered with him on the court in the last 4 games. (spoiler alert Zanzibar – he hasn’t – Bargs still sucks)

    I don’t think anyone is arguing Country Cole is the next David Lee, except on the most general level of being an underutilized bench player. Cole is more like another Tyson Chandler (a very JV Tyson), a low usage guy who plays defense and rebounds at an elite level. There is no way we shouldn’t be able to find ten minutes for this guy.

    Even if he just goes out and plays average basketball, which is what I think he is capable of, that’s a win.

  35. DRed

    In the 3 games prior to the Nets game, Bargs played 38, 38 and 36 minutes. Woodson is selecting to play him, essentially, all the goddamn time. I don’t see a trend, and I don’t see Woodson getting much smarter about when to play Bargnani.

  36. JK47

    We’re talking about backup centers who play about ten minutes a game. You think every team in the league has Kareem on the bench playing backup center? Indy uses Ian Mahimni as backup center. The Clippers use Byron Mullens. We’re 28th in the league in D-rating and have godawful rim protection. But whatever– let’s stick with whatever got us to 4-13.

  37. nicos

    While I agree that Aldritch should get 10 minutes a night for his rebounding alone that’s pretty much all he’s giving you, rebounding. After watching him in summer league and in his limited minutes this year, he doesn’t look much better defending in space than any of the Knicks other bigs. And his career block % of 4.9 isn’t much better than the 4.4 Bargs has so far this year so I’m not sure how much you gain in rim protection. He’s got to be better than Bargnani defending the pnr but guys have had no trouble zipping right by him on the perimeter thus far and his rotations aren’t exactly swift. Still, if you know that what you’ve got isn’t working you might as well take a look at a guy who’ll at least fill one real need by locking down the defensive glass.

  38. SirJim

    I think it’s a bit strange that a lot of this thread is so dedicated to asking if Bargs is a good defensive option at Center. He’s not, and that shouldn’t be in question, as Mike mentioned about his +/-. But that’s not why he’s on the floor. And the fact that the team is being outscored by a 13 point differential is not entirely on him either. There are 4 other guys on the floor and not one of them is our best defensive player.

    Bargs has his woes for sure, but I think those point differentials will change as soon as the Knicks get healthy, get back to the things they do well, and get more playing time to the right players. I’d like to see Toure Murry and Cole Aldrich get more time outside of garbage, but I’d settle for more THJ and Shump when JR is struggling. And more Pablo so Raymond can stay fresh and get over his hobblings.

  39. flossy

    I’m sorry, Andrea Bargnani has his flaws, but if you’d trade him for Hasheem Thabeet you are an idiot or a troll.

  40. Frank

    And there’s your problem. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what per minute stats are and what they mean. Per minute stats generally stay the same whether the player plays 10 minutes or 40 minutes. This is true for all players. Whether it be Carmelo Anthony or Cole Aldrich. It is also true for “energy players” like Ben Wallace, Kirilenko, Marion, or the Birdman. Actually it’s especially true for energy players, because if I’m getting your definition correctly these are players that rely on rebounding, steals, blocks, etc. for production.

    Mike- I’ve tried to address your interpretation of these linked “studies” before and gotten no response. First of all, they’re in no way statistically rigorous. second, when there is no correlation between minutes and PER (or whatever stat you choose) it does NOT mean that per minute stats stay the same regardless of minutes played. It means that you there is no statistical correlation between minutes plated and productivity measure- that they are not necessarily related at all. Some do better, some do worse, but the overall message is that number of minutes played does not clearly affect productivity positively or negatively or even neutrally. It does NOT mean that play one minute or 40 minutes, your stats will be the same. It means that playing one or 40 minutes is as related to your stats as the weather in India. And so maybe other things, like talent, matchup, teammates, fitness, system, etc matter more than actual minutes played. So this argument you keep making is (at least by my knowledge of statistics) consistently misguided.

  41. MarcusRinaldi

    Mike from biedrins stats and thabeets advanced stats and per/36 stats I showed they should be getting minutes too right?

  42. Frank

    Re bargnani’s defense – he spends way too much time playing with similarly indifferent defensive players- Melo, JR, Felton. He’s obviously not a good defender but my guess is that his overall numbers will be better if/when protected by Tyson or k-mart

  43. gransoporro

    I am all for Cole Aldrich to play. Centers should play center, forwards should play forward, etc. Bargnani, well, I am not sure…
    I just hope Aldrich’s defence is better than those 7 minutes yesterday: opposite to him Plumlee scored 8 points (4 in the paint, 4 free throws and he missed 2). I didn’t see much help defense or rim protection apart from the one block. And if you bring up the block, please bring up the layups as well.
    And I wanted him to be a good defending center, so no preconceived notions.

    One comment: if you think he is better than Bargnani at center, shouldn’t you target the coach rather than Bargnani? What he has and hasn’t is well known and well visible to everybody. But still the coach plays him at center.

  44. JK47

    When Chandler comes back, Aldrich probably doesn’t need to get any minutes, but with Chandler out the Knicks are forced to play Kenyon Martin too many minutes, and are forced to sometimes use Amar’e Stoudemire at center. I guess the Knicks didn’t learn anything at all last year watching Marcus Camby, Kurt Thomas and Rasheed Wallace all disintegrate from playing too many minutes and are just gonna do the same idiotic thing this year until K-Mart is completely spent.

  45. Mike Kurylo

    With your wide knowledge and intelligence for statistics, I can’t for the life of me understand why you guys see potential in Aldrich for making us so much better when you actually see him play.

    So with that I say, have you seen Bargnani play? And you still think he’s what the team “needs”?

    The team is has 4 wins and 13 losses, most of the with Andrea at center getting 30 + minutes per game. There was one play early yesterday where Garnett got an easy rebound & flushed it. I watched it 3 times. Bargnani was supposed to box him out & get the rebound. He didn’t. Net result -2. You might not have caught that Bargnani was at fault, and it just seemed like Garnett got a lucky bounce. It wasn’t. Andrea should have gotten himself between Garnett and the basket, but for some unfathomable reason, he doesn’t. Probably because people like you think he’s what the team needs. Probably because Coach Woodson thinks the same. So why should he bother, when he can sink a few from downtown, or put the ball on the floor and head to the basket? Those are apparently all that people can process about a basketball game without stats. I’ll put myself in that boat, which is why I use stats to keep me even-keel.

    I’ve seen all of Cole Aldrich’s 20 minutes, and the guy can rebound. Given yesterday’s play, I would say it matters. He actually had a nice touch in one of them (3 assists, I believe), and I saw the shot he rejected last night. He might be the slowest person up the court, but I don’t see that as a fatal flow. I much rather have his skillset than Andrea’s on the floor. Even though it’s not aesthetically pleasing, it’s better production.

    And given the team’s record, I’ll go with the production.

    Projection statistics can be your basis for all you want, but it doesn’t mean that that’s going to happen when given minutes.

    Actually that’s exactly what it means. You keep saying this, but it’s not true.

  46. SirJim

    BTW, according to Sloan Analytics, Bargnani has a proximal defensive FG% (the FG% of any player attempting a shot while he is within 5ft) of 35.2%, second only to Larry Sanders.

    Thanks to Chris Herring of the Wall Street Journal for sending me a download link to the article. You can find it on my Twitter feed @sirjim1984

  47. er

    BTW, according to Sloan Analytics, Bargnani has a proximal defensive FG% (the FG% of any player attempting a shot while he is within 5ft) of 35.2%, second only to Larry Sanders.

    Thanks to Chris Herring of the Wall Street Journal for sending me a download link to the article. You can find it on my Twitter feed @sirjim1984

    I posted a similar article from his Raptor days and was laughed at lol go figure.

  48. JK47

    BTW, according to Sloan Analytics, Bargnani has a proximal defensive FG% (the FG% of any player attempting a shot while he is within 5ft) of 35.2%, second only to Larry Sanders.

    The problem is he’s usually 6 feet away from the guy he’s supposed to be guarding.

  49. SirJim

    Mike, I totally agree with you that Bargnani is more of a defensive liability than he’s worth. But I can’t imagine anyone anticipating that he would be playing with the kinds of defensive turnstyles we have on this team and not guys like Tyson and KMart. We also couldn’t anticipate that Felton would be playing injured (he’s already not great defensively when healthy) and unable to help keep opposing guards in check.

    That said, I think Aldrich should be starting instead of Martin. He’s not going to fix everything, but I think he would at least make other teams think twice about slicing into the paint. And he’s a true rebounder, not just a 7 footer. I just don’t think Bargs is as damaging to this team as some.

  50. johnno

    You guys do realize that Cole Aldrich has played for four different teams and not one single coach has seen fit to give him regular playing time (and it’s not exactly like he was playing behind Dwight Howard when he was on the Thunder). And it’s not like there were a dozen teams bidding for his services when he was available this off-season. If one coach refused to play him, you might chalk that up to a coach being dumb, but what are the odds that all four coaches are not as smart as the people on this site who are clamoring for him to get playing time? Maybe the four coaches know a little bit more than we do about who is good and who isn’t?

  51. MarcusRinaldi

    Mike you can skew and pick apart my arguments all you want, because I get it, you’re the maker of the website you’re suppose to be the “smartest” out there. But you’re SAME rationale for using Cole Aldrich, also means that you would use players like Thabeet and Biedrins and that they should be playing over Bargnani because of what they’re advanced states say. You keep going away from that point for a reason. Per/36 Last year Hasheem Thabeet averaged 9.1 rebounds, 7.5 points per game, and 2.8 blocks, with a 14.5 percent rebound rate. He played over 700 minutes and in 60 games. With him on the floor there offensive rating was 110, and defensive was 99. This proves he is an extremely efficient scorer, a solid rebounder, a great rim protector because of the blocks, and deserves 10 to 15 minutes a night. . Andris Biedrins played 495 minutes last year, which isn’t a whole lot, but in it, his per/36 was 11.1 total rebounds, 3.1 blocks and his advanced total rebounding was 17.0%. He shot 47.5% from the floor so he’s a efficient scorer, solid rim protector, and an amazing rebounder. These two are not good players… You can say whatever you want to shape or twist my argument so that you sound more intelligent or right, but any rationale which would also suggest using Hasheem Thabeet or Andris Biedrins because of there advanced stats and per/36 is just ridiculous. I have zero against Cole Aldrich but I don’t care what he shows in garbage time. I realize that’s his only to “shine,” but you can pull advanced stats for any number of players who haven’t played much, that makes them look like they have potential. In preseason he played in 4 games, had 4 points on 2-7 and 13 rebounds in 42 total minutes. He can rebound, but that’s all I’ve ever seen from him. It’s sad that the Knicks are in a current state that even leads to people arguing about the use of Cole Aldrich… Just pathetic that it even has to be a discussion for a team that won 54 games last year.

  52. DRed

    Right, I remember that from last year. Of course, Bargs being Bargs, he wasn’t around the rim very often. So he’s good at contesting the shots he contests, but bad at getting to shots to contest. Because he’s a terrible help defender. Bargs gonna do what Bargs do. And Bargs don’t know help defense.

  53. yellowboy90

    I would think being out there with Amar’e doesn’t help his numbers. Maybe that doesn’t have that much affect who knows.

  54. DRed

    because I get it, you’re the maker of the website you’re suppose to be the “smartest” out there

    Ruru and cock jowles are both way smarter than Mike. Mike thought Mike Sweetney was the answer!

    And Johno, you realize that Cole Aldrich Jeremy Lin has played for four three different teams and not one single coach has seen fit to give him regular playing time.

  55. MarcusRinaldi

    I seriously regret being bored this morning and deciding to bring up Cole Aldrich.. Didn’t realize the backlash this would start.. We have a chance to win back to back tonight… That’s my focus from now on! Nothing more from me on Cole Aldrich

  56. JK47

    The Cole Aldrich argument is a moot point anyway, since he ain’t never gonna get no playing time. See what I did there? Triple negative.

  57. Kevin Udwary

    Marcus, why are you picking on Thabeet and Biedrins? They are perfectly serviceable backup centers. If they were on this team, everyone who is yelling for Cole to get playing time, would be yelling for them to get minutes instead. In fact, if I were a OKC fan, I’d be yelling for Thabeet to get playing time over Perkins. Perkins is just downright horrible.

  58. Mike Kurylo

    @47 – I believe we’ve had this discussion before, many times in fact. It’s not that I haven’t responded, it’s that I’ve responded and I guess you either don’t recall or don’t accept my response. Tell me if any of this sound familiar.

    Your problem with the study is that some people improved, others declined and the rest stayed approximately the same. And you’ve said in the past that since there is no way to know whether someone is in one of those groups that the study is invalid. Because by this logic a certain percentage of players might decline in per minute stats. And that we must delve further into why these players have declined or we can’t determine anything.

    However my response is that just because some players do decline, doesn’t invalidate the results. A majority of players do the same or better, and that you could get caught in an infinite amount of reasons why a player’s per minute stats declined. One player might get injured, another might have an eating problem, another might have had a divorce, another might have swapped religions… Following that kind of rigorous logic would lead just about any study to be invalid. Should we throw out the works of Newton or Einstein because they don’t have the complete laws of physics in their entirety & head back to a earth-centered the gods make the moon move across the sky view?

    And the same thing applies here. The evidence shows that for the most part per-minute stats are very stable. Sure it doesn’t work all the time – something which I do admit. However just because some don’t fit the model of per-minute stats doesn’t mean that Cole Aldrich or David Lee or Ben Wallace should be judged by the eye test and throw out their per minute stats.

  59. MarcusRinaldi

    That’s where we disagree Kevin, because I believe all three are downright terrible, Perkins on Shaqtin’ a Fool is down right hilairious. I’m not arguing about there hypotheticals anymore because as JK47 put it, and I 100% agree with, it’s a “moot point”. Woodson is stuck in his way’s, and when Chandler gets back, he has Chandler, Martin, Stoudemaire, Anthony, Bargnani, and potentially Tyler, already on the the depth chart for big men.

  60. Zanzibar

    He’s obviously not a good defender but my guess is that his overall numbers will be better if/when protected by Tyson or k-mart

    Yes but I think it would be a huge mistake to play him there. To me, the season so far has shown that Bargs should be our 20mpg back-up center in a 5-out lineup. Felton/Shump/JR/Melo/Bargs unit is +31 over 96 minutes. Substitute Prigs for Felton and unit is +2 over 9 minutes. I believe then the whole key to this season is how JR is used. I think his rebounding and ability to attack the rim in open space make him much more valuable in spread lineup (recall his transcendent month last season attacking the rim occurred when Tyson was out). In Chandler at 5 units, offense would be spread over Melo, Amare, Felton/TC PnR, and minor minutes for Bargs and JR.

    Here’s something interesting to chew on. Consider that unit Felton/Shump/JR/Melo/Bargs. I believe the career WP48s for all of these players are below average. What would it mean if this ultra-spacing lineup were to continue to be net plus over the rest of the season? Would it be considered an outlier or would those folks have to acknowledge that interaction effects really do matter? I think people are framing the question wrong concerning Bargs. The issue really is not whether Bargs (and JR for that matter) are good players in the abstract; imo they’re both below average in that respect. It’s whether they can be net positives when played in certain units which maximize their strengths.

  61. Mike Kurylo

    You guys do realize that Cole Aldrich has played for four different teams and not one single coach has seen fit to give him regular playing time (and it’s not exactly like he was playing behind Dwight Howard when he was on the Thunder). And it’s not like there were a dozen teams bidding for his services when he was available this off-season. If one coach refused to play him, you might chalk that up to a coach being dumb, but what are the odds that all four coaches are not as smart as the people on this site who are clamoring for him to get playing time? Maybe the four coaches know a little bit more than we do about who is good and who isn’t?

    How many coaches did Ben Wallace play for? Chauncey Billups?

    Let’s turn this around. How many coaches play shitty players too many minutes? How many NBA front offices make jaw dropping dumb acquisitions?

    Honestly I wouldn’t trust the decision makers of the NBA as the final authority on who deserves to be in the league or getting minutes. Not as a whole.

  62. massive

    In more interesting but less relevant news, Carmelo Anthony is reportedly already recruiting Rajon Rondo for 2015. So I guess he isn’t really leaving the Knicks. Or maybe he’s pulling a LeBron to Bosh on a “let’s go play for some other team together” note. I was sorta looking forward to Melo leaving and having a fresh start around TH2 and Shump. I guess Rondo, Shump, TH2, Melo, and a center to be named later would be a pretty solid 5 man unit.

  63. massive

    And on the level of coach v. player, sometimes you’re too close to a situation to see what’s going on. Coaches are as prone to biases as everyone else.

  64. Mike Kurylo

    Ruru and cock jowles are both way smarter than Mike. Mike thought Mike Sweetney was the answer!

    Honestly it’s a Mike bias thing. Us Mike’s are generally superior to the rest of you mediocre first namers.

    Maybe after the season we can have the first annual KnickerBlogger chess tournament to determine the smartest one here. Actually the way the season is going, we can probably do it any time during the season. Maybe when they hit loss #42, to divert away attention from our collective humiliation?

  65. johnno

    And Johno, you realize that Cole Aldrich Jeremy Lin has played for four three different teams and not one single coach has seen fit to give him regular playing time.

    And you see no difference between a coach ignoring an undrafted free agent and a coach not playing a guy who was a lottery pick? When a guy gets drafted #11, the coach doesn’t usually glue him to the bench unless he thinks that he is a really bad player — especially when the team is starting Kendrick Perkins at center. Put another way — if Jeremy Lin were a lottery pick, do you think that there is any chance whatsoever that, if the team that drafted him was starving for a good point guard, the coach wouldn’t have given him a chance to play regularly?

  66. MarcusRinaldi

    The one thing that really interests me about Rondo, is that leading up to his injury, it felt like he was shooting a little bit better. The stats weren’t very conclusive, but he was actually shooting 42.5% on jumpers before he went down, and about 65% from the free throw line. While this seems low, he was shooting much lower in the previous year. It’ll be interesting to see if the stereotype that players coming off ACL tears come back to shoot jumpers better rings true with him. Rondo with a jumper sounds dangerous to me

  67. Mike Kurylo

    And you see no difference between a coach ignoring an undrafted free agent and a coach not playing a guy who was a lottery pick? When a guy gets drafted #11, the coach doesn’t usually glue him to the bench unless he thinks that he is a really bad player — especially when the team is starting Kendrick Perkins at center. Put another way — if Jeremy Lin were a lottery pick, do you think that there is any chance whatsoever that, if the team that drafted him was starving for a good point guard, the coach wouldn’t have given him a chance to play regularly?

    Chauncey Billups was taken 3rd overall.

  68. johnno

    Re: Wallace and Billups — bad comparisons. Wallace was an undrafted free agent who was getting regular playing time by his second year in the league. Billups started 70 games as a rookie and played more than 25 minutes a game for each of his first five years in the league. Your Billups reference actually proves my point. He was a very mediocre player for about five years yet, possibly because he was a lottery pick, coaches kept sending him out there.

  69. coyle022

    In regards to this Cole Aldrich mess, nobody is suggesting that Country will be the next Lin, or put up his /36 #’s. Heck I don’t think he will really make a noticeable difference-at least not to the casual fan. But in the context of this team’s construction, especially with Tyson’s injury, 10-15 minutes of Cole Aldrich will, at the very least, not kill the team. He does what nobody outside of Kmart can currently do-protect the rim and rebound the damn ball. Throwout the statistics. Guys like him are not in a position to have statistics dictate their value. All he has to do is plant his ass down low and be the Anti-Bargnani….ie don’t let the other team participate in a layup line possession after possession. All of the arguments here are ridiculous because if you had not watched a game this year it would sound as if he has shown flashes of brilliance in garbage time. He hasn’t. But that’s not the point. He fills a need/role on the team and when he made the roster I think most of us assumed he would be utilized only if a frontcourt player suffered a medium/long-term injury. So when Tyson Chandler, the only viable true C on the team, goes down with a fractured leg, naturally those in the fanbase who are familiar with Aldrich will wonder if/when he gets an opportunity. Nobody, even the most homer Kansas Jayhawk fan, can make the case that Cole Aldrich is a per/36 min version of David Lee. It’s obvious that Aldrich is slow, probably can’t jump very well, and has 0 offensive game. But that fits the bill of many backup/15th man Centers in the league (Jason Collins, Johan Petro, Zaza Pachulia, Ekpe Udoh, the list goes on). However what’s the point of having him on the squad if he is just someone for Udrih and Prigioni to talk to on the bench?

    Personally, I am a huge Country Cole/any white-American NBA player fan (Budinger, Parsons, Redick, Love, Ridnour, Novak, Anderson, Korver) but in the context of this team at the current moment Cole 100% fills a need…

  70. Brian Cronin

    I just love that they get to play the Magic. Now is the time to start putting some wins together and it sure helps to be playing a team like Orlando.

  71. SirJim

    And Boston after that. Is there any truth to the rumor that Melo is leaning on Rondo to join NYC? And how would that even come about? Is it even possible?

  72. thenoblefacehumper

    I really don’t understand anyone arguing it’s not worth giving TEN MINUTES to Aldrich. It doesn’t matter what you think about Per/36 numbers. It doesn’t matter what you think about advanced stats, or any stats, in general. We’re 4-13. In that time Bargs and K-mart have gotten huge minutes, and we’ve been losing. Would our record be worse if they each ceded 5-7 minutes to Aldrich? Is Bargs so essential to our success that we can’t take him off the floor? If you think either of those things, you can’t even claim to be a proponent of the eye test because it’s you who hasn’t been watching games.

  73. Owen

    Yeah, Orlando without Vucevic. That’s a very favorable matchup. Excited to see what we do against Oladipo, or just to see him play.

    “Maybe after the season we can have the first annual KnickerBlogger chess tournament to determine the smartest one here. ”

    I propose a poker tournament instead.

  74. Frank

    Yowza what a hit piece on Melo by Brian windhorst at ESPN:

    http://es.pn/1eW2l5o

    If I remember correctly, windhorst also wrote a whole bunch of “he’s not the kid I knew growing up in Akron” hit pieces about Lebron after the Decision (In the two minutes before he followed him from Cleveland to Miami like a lap dog).

    Hopefully this works some sort of reverse psychology on Melo.

  75. Frank

    Speaking of our bigs: per NBAwowy we are a +10/100poss with KMart and Bargnani on the floor together, and and +21.5/100poss when you add Melo and Felton to that. Hmmm surprising to say the least.

  76. DRed

    Yowza what a hit piece on Melo by Brian windhorst at ESPN:

    So lazy. Why should Carmelo not do what is best for Carmelo? Here’s what he owes the Knicks-showing up in shape, playing hard, and doing whatever PR crap his contract requires. That’s it. And we didn’t trade all that shit to the Nuggets because Melo demanded it. We traded it because we’re owned by a fucking idiot who can’t call a bluff. (as an aside, we need to get Dolan into the First Annual All-Knickerblogger Invitational Poker Tournament)

  77. Owen

    “(as an aside, we need to get Dolan into the First Annual All-Knickerblogger Invitational Poker Tournament)”

    Indeed. I’d like to be seated to the left of Jr if at all possible. And at a different table from Prigs. He looks like trouble….

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