Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Friday, October 31, 2014

Knicks 104 Warriors 106

	Pace (Poss)	Eff	eFG	FT/FG	OREB%	TOr
NYK	94.7 (92.2)	105.1	45.9%	21.2	27.9	14.2
GSW			110.7	48.8%	26.5	31.3	14.0

Yet again the Knicks bobble, then catch up. They outscore the Warriors 59-47 in the middle two quarters, but are outscored 59-45 in the 1st & 4th quarters. The culprits: Curry & Randolph. The Knicks were -10 for the 18 minutes Eddy Curry was on the court and -12 for Zach’s 33 minutes. It really kills me that these guys played poorly, but I’m not surprised by it. Both players should have been able to score big against the smaller frontcourt of Golden State. They should have been able to draw double teams and opened up the perimeter for the Knicks. But Curry was unable to keep himself on the court, and didn’t notch a single assist. Randolph had 6 assists, but it seemed he was happy to stay on the perimeter for most of the night. He only hit 4 of 11 shots, hardly the results you’d expect from a low-post bruiser.

I like Mardy Collins getting minutes, especially at the start. This is because the Knicks are going to start Crawford, Richardson, Randolph and Curry. That group doesn’t need a scorer like Robinson, they need defense, badly. Personally I’d rather see Nate & Balkman in the starting 5, but I also wish my credit card bills were smaller. Before the game Collins’ PER was an anemic 2.6, but I think he brings defense and rebounding – something this team needs.

Robinson played well, despite his poor shooting. He’s probably still bothered by that cut above his eye given to him by David Lee. And I like the effort given by Balkman. He only missed one shot, and filled up the stat sheet like he typically does when given minutes: 11pts, 4reb, 1ast, 2stl, and 3blk. At times Balkman covered Davis, at other times he was the PF on the court.

All 5 of the Golden State starters played at least 35 minutes, with 3 of them surpassing 41. I guess you can throw out the notion that the Knick reserves only do well against the other team’s reserves, that’s if you had that notion in your head. The Knicks keep losing games by doling out the minutes by contract — but if that nets them a few more pingpong balls, I can deal with it for the time being. At times I tape the games when I can’t see them live. Maybe I should time it so that I only catch the middle half? This way I don’t have to depressed at the start or ending of Knick games.

54 comments on “Knicks 104 Warriors 106

  1. Manny

    So typical everyone needs to stop talking about how we won 5 out of the last 7. for for the month of Jan we are 6 for 14 most likely gonna be 6 for 16

  2. xduckshoex

    Actually, the Knicks are playing .500 ball for the month of January. Not bad at all, considering how they started the season.

  3. xduckshoex

    Actually, scratch that. I obviously read something incorrectly. No more internet after working nights for me.

  4. Ben R

    I actually think the Knicks have turned a corner. For the most part since our close game in San Antonio we have played alot harder and we are 6-6. Our losses have come against good teams: Houston twice, Boston and Toronto at home and Golden State and Washington on the road. We have also beaten two good teams in Washington and Detroit.

    I am not saying playoffs or anything like that but we are playing pretty close to as good as we played last year which is amazing considering we added Randolph and Q’s game has disappeared. If we can move or bench either Randolph or Q we could be even better.

    As for this road trip we might go 1-4 which would not be bad considering 4 of these game are games we should lose, if we can win 2 or 3 that would be incredible. The real test is when we get home we need to win 6 of the next 8.

    I still think this team needs major changes and would love to see Isiah, Randolph, and Q all gone as soon as possible, but at least they are fun to watch again.

  5. Brian Cronin

    I see your point, Ben, but I dunno if it necessarily the Knicks turning a corner so much as it is the rest of the league just falling apart.

    The Knicks do look good compared to teams like the Nets, Hawks, Bobcats, Heat and Sixers right now, but that’s not exactly heady praise, ya know?

    The Knicks making the playoffs would be so hilarious.

  6. Brendan

    I would totally agree that the Knicks look better and more competitive of late, which is actually what worries me. Whisper it softly, but haven’t little flashes of almost-competitiveness been excuse enough to recommit to the never-rebuild, Isiah-forever plan in the past?

    I mean, day by day a 35-47 team is certainly more fun to watch than, say, a 25-57 team, but in the context of Knicks management and long term planning I’d rather have the latter than the former. The Knicks scraping narrowly to 9th in the conference might not produce the changes we all know they need.

  7. nj hoop

    Well said Brendan. I root for this team because I’m a fan, but every win (or competitive loss) means more of Isaiah’s horrible tenure as coach and GM. And obviously less chance of a high lottery pick. But they are playing a lot better and seem to actually care, which is a big change from blowout home losses to teams like Philly and Sac. And as an owner with half a brain, I’d be asking the coach “why now and not in Nov. and Dec.?” But that’s assuming he has half a brain.

  8. retropkid

    This road trip they could go 0-5…Seattle may be best shot at a win, but it’s second game of back to back on the road, may be tougher than you think.

    Majority of games left are on the road, chances of Knicks making playoff or winning 35 games are remote.

    The league does have a number of clubs playing horrible ball right now though, so our guys aren’t alone in their horrid play…

  9. Joe V Clyde off balance

    I called it yesterday, that Clyde would not show up because of the probability that the knicks could win.Just like when the Knicks went on a winning streak he was nowhere to be found.

    I was unable to submit my thoughts because I was banned. I guess the host of this blog doesn’t appreciate thought outside the box.I had to switch pc’s to get this in.

    The coverage was much better yesterday. The commentators were much more rewarding when the knicks did well and fare in their negative comments. Good save by Balkman. I have not seen the whole game yet but the little coverage I saw was much more enjoyable.

  10. Roshi

    I know this has been asked before, but PLEASE explain to me how Clyde’s broadcast can possibly affect the game? Do Knicks players magically listen to the broadcast while the game is going on? Can you affect a game by shouting at the television?

  11. T-Mart

    “Can you affect a game by shouting at the television?”

    Obviously, isn’t that why we all watch?hehe

  12. Thomas B.

    This game, more than any other this season, shows why the Knicks can not win with Eddy Curry as the starting center. With Golden State having one of the smallest front lines in the NBA, Curry should have gone for 40 last night. Curry was completely out played by Andris Biendris (sp?), a man two inches and probably 60 pounds smaller than Curry.

    Six years in the NBA and Curry has not developed a low post move that is effective and will keep him from drawing an offensive foul. There are two very good post moves that allow this: the turn around jumper and the jump hook. Curry lacks the conditioning to the the former well and he lacks the soft touch to do the later well. He can’t but the ball on the ground and drive, which is less likely to result in an offensive fould than simply turning your body into the defender.

    Curry pounds the ball in with two dribbles then turns right into his defender. All the defender needs to do is fall and he will generally get the call. Sure Shaq got away with this in the 90’s but Shaq also dealt with triple teams and many defenders were of comparable size.

    I have watched Curry over the last three years in NY and noticed that he has horrible footwork. Many effective lowpost scorers create space with footwork rather than bulk. Hakeem was one of the best at that. Combine Curry’s poor footwork, poor touch, and stone hands and you can see why he picks up so many offensive fouls. He cannot score unless he is two feet from the basket. He cant get that position unless he bullies his defender out of the way. The only other way that Curry can score is if the guards get to the basket and draw Curry’s defender away. But again he has to catch the damn pass, something he has not shown a strong ability to do.

    There is no excuse for being outplayed by Andris Bendris. 26 rebounds, an NBA season high from a 6’9” 235 forward that moonlights as a center. Just awful.

    Randolph was no better last night. With GS’s front line and Curry in foul trouble, Randolph should have been glued to the post. Instead he was doing his best Al Harrington impression. 6’9” and somehow he is allergic to working in the paint. Randolph just did not fight for position inside. It is clear to me that Randolph is a talented player but he is very lazy. A lazy player will fire an 18 jumper rather than fight in the post. He will walk away from a defender rather than keep his arms up. If at all possible Randolph and Curry have to go.

    I think Thomas is somewhat to blame. He needs to grab both Randolph and Curry by the ear and tell them they don’t play until they play defense. I think Isiah is afraid to challenge Randolph and Curry that way. Isiah pulled that on Step once the owner made it clear that Steph was no longer in the plans (something that should have come as no suprise to Stephon after all the weird press stories involving him last summer. Jimmy Dolan does not like unflattering media attention). So Isiah “punished” the player that he knew he would not have to deal with long term. But he will not do it the Curry because he has to deal with Curry for at least the next three years. Furthermore, Isiah’s gameplan should have been to pound the ball inside all night. You can’t out offense GS. We don’t have a Baron Davis. But you can smack GS in the mouth with your big lineup, unless of course one big cant stay out of foul trouble and rebounds like a reserve PG. While the other big goes into anaphylactic shock if he has to fight for post position.

    I only listened to the game on the internet, but it seemed that we played very well with Lee and Balkman on the floor. This is because they bring the kind of effort that Randolph and Curry refuse to bring. I say we let the older players go and start a youth movement. Portland and to a lesser extent Atlanta have shown that young teams can play solid ball. Of course, Portalnd has one of the best coaches in the NBA. We have one of the worst.

    Even with all the ineptitude, we had a chance to win. I think we could have won had we got the kind of front line contributions that we should get against GS. We also could use a better Xs and Os coach.

    Bring in Mark Jackson as the GM and beg JVG to come back and coach. Bring Ewing in as a big man coach. Reassign Isiah to president of basketball operations and make him the head scout. Hope he gets sicks of that and quits. At the very least by brining in Jackson, Ewing, and JVG you show the fan base you are committed to improving. And bringing in three well liked people from the Knick’s better days may just buy you some goodwill from the media and fan base. Poppa Dolan needs to say to Jimmy: “Go in the garage and practice with your band. Daddy will take care of this.”

  13. Frank O.

    I love people who use the phrase “out of the box.”
    What once was a reference for edgy thinking has now become a euphemism for “indefensible, unexplainable, illogical thought…”

    And how weird is it that you would switch PCs to get onto a blog so that you could express your “out of the box” thoughts on Clyde’s not showing up and how that might increase the probability of a Bricks win…?

    I mean, aside from the fact that your obsession is weird, the Bricks lost, right? That would indicate that your premise was flawed.
    Because they lost.
    I mean, you did see they lost…and that they lost because of poor shooting, poor defense, and some stupid fouls, right?

    As far as I can tell, it was status quo.

    Robinson was productive, but he committed too many fouls that kept him off the floor.
    Balkman was a force on the court.
    Lee had a bunch of rebounds and decent scoring, but his defense was a bit soft, reflecting some problems with defensive fundamentals.
    Crawford was maddeningly inconsistent and couldn’t hit the side of a tenement from 3-pt.
    Collins is completely useless.
    Randolph takes too many jumpers.
    Q is playing only slightly better and still shouldn’t be getting all these minutes.
    Curry is still slow, fat and people move around him like he’s nailed to the court.

    So we’re supposed to believe Clyde’s absence increased the probability of victory despite the fact that the performance was eerily similar to the rest of the year, as was the outcome?

    Here’s a thought, Joe V. Watch the games with the sound off. And watch what happens on court. And keep your own counsel.

    At the end of the day, a train-wreck is still a train-wreck no matter what observers say.

  14. JVG

    I think it’s safe to say that when Eddie Curry is at the dinner table he doesn’t have the same problems with “bobbles” and stone hands that he does on the court.

  15. Ray

    Man E-City is getting trahsed in here. Poor guy. When we got him we knew he wasnt going to play defense anyway its just not in the kid. Since coming to New York the only thing that has developed is his offensive game. Give credit to Agguire for that. Eddy has a greater desire to score than to play defense so thats what he excels at. The Knicks played well on the road last night and I give them credit for that. In these close games that are winnable we have the opportunity to see what is missing from the team. I think its a Marcus Camby type center that we need. IF we did trade Eddy I would hope that we could get something respectable in return. If we trade anyone I hope we could get something of good value in return. Id rather not make the playoff and be bumped in the first round. That is so unsatisfying. Id rather build of this good team chemistry that we’ve been having and add good young pieces to strengthen things for the years to come. East teams will only be weak for so long and if we dont build correctly now we will find ourselves in the basement for a long time. We do have some great pieces here. Nate is great! Lee and Crawford is clutch. Just needs to be more consistent. Lets start with those 3. Trading deadline is coming soon. Whats going to happen?

  16. JoMo

    Man, i’ve been meaning to contribute to these threads for so long. Thomas, that is such a laughably accurate diagnosis of our bigs. I am utterly amazed when i watch Curry play. I cannot comprehend how one can refuse to learn from mistakes like “hmm, everytime i catch the ball in the post and try to power dribble to the basket i am completely innefective and foul-prone. Maybe I should work on something different, as my massive frame clearly does not work well alongside my ineptitude in court-awareness.”

    Randolph has flashes of an all-around game. Like against philly when he actually helped move the ball around and had some nice dimes. I certainly dont think he is as much of a liability as Curry, as he (when he chooses to utilize them) has a nice variety of moves and a serious understanding of how to rebound and how to box his man out. And he seems to actually work with his teammates at times, whereas Curry is always looking around confused like “what did i do wrong, why are you guys looking at me like that.”

    Intelligence goes a long way in this game and while a body and some touch goes a long way, being virtually retarded on the court makes you a worthless entity.

    I think you shop curry for anyone you can get. And hold onto Randolph who under the guidance of a comepetent coach might actually play consistent team ball.

  17. Owen

    Eddy Curry is out there somewhere thinking, I was 5-5, 7-9 from the line, I had 17 points in 18 minutes! I even had four boards and a steal!

    My impression watching was that Golden State had scored already every time Curry got back down the court to play defense.

    Lee had a pretty lackluster game despite the 13 boards in 26 minutes and the 57% ts%.

  18. jayV

    From Joe V ClydesOffBalance

    To Roshi Your question= PLEASE explain to me how Clyde’s broadcast can possibly affect the game?

    Let me clarify. These players have friends and families wathching these games. The players themselves may watch the game afterwards. Although his comments may not have an instantaneous effect on the players for obvious reasons, his complements may have an effect on every game following, his reactions could fuel the boos the knicks get the next day. The crap they here from there friends and families. Aside from that, some people enjoy watching the sport of basketball. It’s diffucult to get pass the reterick when your trying to enjoy the game. Just picture your kids or sibbling little league game being broadcast in your hometown. Would you feel the same way? If there coverage was off balance. I doubt it. Some people’s thoughts can easily be swayed. Especially the young kids watching the game. A spade is a spade. I call it the way I see it. Last nights reaction by the commentators were instantaneous not pre-meditated or “lacadasical”. I must admit though, Clydes last coverage was much more tolerable than others.

    Knowone should be above critisism. Your argument should be whether I am wrong or right not if it affects the players. If it’s wrong it’s wrong whether it affects the players or not. If I am right then your argument that off balance coverage could not have an impact on a team is ludicrious.

    Now you know.

    To Frank O I never said that Clyde not reporting for duty on a given night would increase the chances of a win that day. Let’s try to keep focused. Some might respect your opinion and receive what you’re saying as fact. Then I would have to shift my energy in a different direction

    Some people would go through great lengths to express their beliefs. I switched computers to express mine. I don’t see anything weird about that. That just means I am not a quiter. You may have reacted differntly.

    Let’s Go Knicks not Bricks.

  19. mase

    just a thought, wouldnt Curry be a force on the GSW’s?
    with Harrington and Jackson at the other forward spots Curry would flourish…Mullin please take him off our hands?

  20. jon abbey

    “I was unable to submit my thoughts because I was banned. I guess the host of this blog doesn’t appreciate thought outside the box.”

    good for Mike (if that’s actually what happened), you’re an endlessly blathering nincompoop. now go away, please.

    has there ever been a team in league history to bring three of their best four players (Lee, Robinson, Balkman, along with Crawford) off the bench? switching any of those three to the starting lineup would instantly result in a few more wins IMO.

  21. Roshi

    JoeV:
    For you to suggest that Knick players listen to the broadcast after the game is pure conjecture. The only time they watch tape is in practice. When they watch tape in practice (if they even bother), I doubt that it includes Clyde’s broadcast. Given that nearly all the Knicks have lousy attitudes, it is highly unlikely that they are watching the taped game beyond this. Thus, there is a very very slim chance that any of the Knicks ever get to hear Clyde speak about them.

    Print media is another story. We know for a fact that many players read and react via interviews/blogs to things they read about themselves in the paper or on the web. Despite this, I don’t hear you suggesting that Peter Vescey makes the Knicks play poorly, which seems far more likely, although still ludicrous.

    As I’ve said before, Clyde tells it like it is, and as a appreciator of the game, I can respect that he is able to point out to the layman the Knicks shortcomings and often suggest what they need to do to fix them. Maybe he should be coaching the team!

    BTW, I’d like to thank Frank O., whose humorous, but coherent, posts make this blog worth reading.

  22. Roshi

    Quentin Richardson +12
    Mardy Collins +13

    Nate Robinson -6
    David Lee -4

    WTF, did we fall through a black hole?

  23. Roshi

    Sorry for the 3rd post in a row, but how does Fred Jones start one game and then a few days later register a DNP?

    There is no method to this madness

  24. jon abbey

    Fred Jones hasn’t been available, flu-like symptoms. that’s why Mardy has gone from DNPs to starting, so Isiah can keep all of his actual players coming off the bench, because god knows you wouldn’t want any of them starting.

  25. Brian Cronin

    Quentin Richardson +12
    Mardy Collins +13

    Nate Robinson -6
    David Lee -4

    WTF, did we fall through a black hole?

    Yeah, like I’ve mentioned in the past, that’s why it’s usually not a good idea to give too much credence to individual plus/minus performances.

    As for Fred Jones – isn’t he coming off an illness? Add to that that Collins played about as well as Jones in his absence, and I can understand the move.

  26. Frank O.

    Oh, right, so the contention is that Clyde didn’t show because the Bricks might win.
    Because he likes when they suck…

    That makes more sense…

    My assumption about your contentions is much broader than your last statements.
    You have contended throughout that Clyde’s negativity was somehow affecting the Bricks ability to win.
    You again contended, under a different name, that Clyde’s negativity filters back to the players through their families.

    Anyway, your contention that Clyde’s coverage is off balance is entirely subjective. Most people I know, and apparently most on this board, believe his description of the Bricks is fairly accurate. You see, he would not be credible if he were to contend the 14-29 Bricks were playing well when they have lost more than twice the games they have won.
    And since Clyde is one of the few former Knicks alive that has actually won an NBA championship, one might tend to place more stock in his assessment than someone who simply wants to hear what he wants to hear…
    But no one is trying to deny your right to express yourself in a focused way. In fact, you have every right to turn down the volume, and turn off the TV just before the final second ticks off the clock and the announcers show negativity like…a losing final score.

  27. retropkid

    “I actually think the Knicks have turned a corner.”

    …only to be hit by another 16 wheeler on their road to oblivion…

  28. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    Joe V. – read the disclamer: “Comments that are inflammatory, vulgar, offensive, trollish, imbecilic or off-topic may be removed. Commenters may be banned for breaking these rules.”

    I’ll let you guess where your comments about an announcer affecting the outcome of games fits into that description.

  29. Thomas B.

    john abbey,

    If you listen closely you will hear the sound of winged pigs soaring through a hell that has just frozen over because I agree with john abbey!!

    There is just no good reason (other than ping pong balls) not to start Lee, Robinson, and Balkman. At least try the Robinson, Crawford, Balkman, Lee, and *gulp* Curry line up. I went with Curry over Randolph because Curry wont screw up the offensive spacing by wandering out to take 18 foot jumpers. Curry is a horrid rebounder, but Lee and Balkman should more than make up for this.

    I hope nobody falls for the Q-Rich “fool’s gold” stat sheet from last night.

    14 points 6-13 (2-5) 4 dimes 7 boards +12.

    This is not the real Q. That is a shooter who had nothing but open looks against the one team in the NBA that doesn’t even try to play D. The Knicks try, they just stink at it. Q=Benched.

  30. Frank O.

    Thomas
    I will go one step further. I would start Jeffries over Curry for his defense.
    I would make it a defensively-focused first team and have key offensive subs made with Randolph and Curry.

    My lineup, given Marbury is gone, would be
    Robinson PG
    Crawford SG
    Balkman SF
    Lee PF
    Jeffries C

    Randolph, Curry, Chandler and Q off the bench.

    But winning in the NBA starts on the defensive end.

    or we could just have Clyde fired, which should significant boost Bricks morale, apparently, if not the won-loss record. :)

  31. The troll under the bridge (Thomas B.)

    As a Troll-American I find it highly offensive that my native language, Trollish, is treated so poorly on this site. I urge tolerance for trolls and our way of life. The notion that a person could be banned for speaking our language is very hurtful. Rest assured that Al Sharpton will hear about this.

    Roshi,

    “Gooblygobly, Grrrr!?” How dare you! My mother was a saint among trolls. How dare you say that about her?

    Now if you will excuse me, I think I hear a billy goat trying to cross my bridge.

  32. Roshi

    I don’t know Frank…Jeffries has looked particularly awful out there lately. I guess you could say that he’s ‘better’ at defense than Curry or Randolph, but his offense is so painfully anemic, I’m not sure there is a net positive.

    Basically, we just need a neutral placeholder at center. Let’s see what the forgotten twinkie, Jerome James, can do.

  33. Thomas B.

    Frank O.

    Yes, of course. I did not think about Jared. That is perfect, put JJ up front with Lee. JJ can at least put the ball on the floor. His outside shooting is no worse than Curry’s but he will rebound and defend. Maybe this line up could let the Curry, Randolph, Q, Jones, and *gulp* Collins bench play from ahead for a change. Good call.

  34. retropkid

    I would still start Randolph instead of Jared or Curry….between him and Lee you get boards. I’d play them in a zone, with Robinson, Balkman and Crawford out front in a 3/2 (or Balkman in the middle of a 2-1-2 look). You also protect Nate from getting posted that way. You get some D, some rebounding, some energy, and still have a go to scorer in Randolph if you need it….this team can run the floor, Zach won’t slow the ball movement as much…

    You don’t want Curry and Randolph coming off the bench together…let Curry come in off the bench, with Jeffries…stay zone. Cut down on Eddie’s fouls with a zone, maybe he plays more aggressively w/o foul trouble, let Jeffries take the middle with his wing span, Eddie plays the wing in the zone…Eddie doesn’t need to share with another low post guy on offense that way too.

  35. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    Troll UTB: I hate to tell you this, but you’ve been fully assimilated into American culture. Your post is filled with logic, cleverness, and correctly spelled words. Next time at least throw in a random UPPERCASE word, or a bunch of punctuation marks!!!!!

    Or just add something bat shit crazy. For example blame the Knicks’ inability to win on Spalding, the guys that mop up the sweat during games, or the coach from 2 years ago.

  36. The Troll under the bridge (Thomas B.)

    Mike K.,

    I have turned my back on my Trollish heritage. Well no more. With pride I declare:

    1) Clyde FRAZIER is the REAL reason FOR the Knicks’ unwinningness.

    B) We can still make the playuffs IF we trade LEE to the Nets for Jason COLLINGs

    4) Trade Robinson to the Lakers for that LEAKY HOLE in the roof of the Staples Center. Leaky HOLE will let winning enter the building. WINNING not in building now because MSG shaped LIKE a BAMBOO steam COOKER.

    A) The Knicks are in purposely losing to reduce the value of the property around MSG so that Dolan can buy the properties cheap, then sell control of the property to Iraqi freedom fighters, who would then make the area ‘Little Iraq’ which would cause bush to ATAKK the area, destroying MSG and ensuring that the Knicks get a first round draft pick which Isiah will trade to the Clippers for their share of the LEAKY HOLE in the STAPLES CENTER. Then we will have both halfs of the LEAKY HOLE.

  37. retropkid

    It’s taking all my willpower not to say that Dolan is 100% of a leaky ‘hole already…so far I am impressed with my self-restraint…

  38. dave crockett

    i understand that LEAKY HOLE is a real up-and-comer. a number of teams were considering him in the 2nd round.

    i was surprised we didn’t see a little more jeffries in the 2nd half. he made some miserable turnovers early, which i’m sure exasperated isiah. but if the knicks are going to play as much zone as they played, and play small on the backline, jeffries should be on the floor.

  39. TDM

    After watching the game, I literally had to go to Sportsline.com to see how tall Biedrins was. I would have bet my mother’s purse that he was at least 7’2″.

    A few things have occurred to me in recent weeks:

    1. When Isaiah first came to the Knicks he wouldn’t let a day go by where he didn’t make a statement about how he wanted to make the Knicks more athletic. Then, he went out and traded for “Steady” Eddy Curry. ["Steady": –adjective firmly placed or fixed; stable in position or equilibrium: a steady ladder.]

    2. I think more angst needs to be directed at Marbury. Since he came over, every time Marbury had a good pick and roll tandem going, the other cog was shipped out one way or another and sometimes at his request (i.e. Kurt Thomas, Doleac, Frye, and I hate to say it – KVH).

    3. The only reason the Knicks were in the game last night was because GS, a team that relies heavily on the 3, couldn’t hit it. They were like 2 for 20 in the first half. Stephen Jackson finally caught fire in the 4th. They still ended up only 7 for 27 from 3.

    As far as a proposed lineup, I’d like to see Craw, Nate, Balk, Lee and ZeBo.

  40. Frank O.

    I understand the concern about Jeffries. But I believe given some continuity he can be effective.
    Last year, before his injury, he was having a significant impact on the team. He even managed some O.
    I like his length and quickness defensively. But the rotations would be fairly active with Zach and Curry.

    Last night, I believe we saw the best use of Curry. Limited minutes so that he doesn’t hurt you too much defensively (If he had played 30 minutes last night the Bricks would have given up 120), and you maximize his offense. He gets 12 or so shots and makes 7-8. If he shoots well from the line, that’s just gravy.
    You get the offense, he isn’t exhausted from lack of fitness, and you mitigation his defensive liabilities.
    Zach’s defense is such a liability. But he still will get 30 minutes.
    It’s an issue of emphasis.

    I think the Bricks also would benefit from shortening the rotation. This team is feeling like Larry Brown’s. I mean, how is it that Collins, who sucks, can disappear for weeks on end and then suddenly start over who I believe to be the Bricks best player right now in Robinson?

    No. This team needs to commit to defense in more than just words. Isiah says the team needs to show defensive toughness, but it is a mixed message because three of the five starters refuse to play any defense (Curry, Randolph and Crawford).

    So do it in deed. Use Randolph and Curry as the Knicks of old used John Starks: for injection of offensive and creating mismatches.

    I think in this scenario you also would get far greater output from Lee and Balkman and Robinson that would offset what you think you might lose from Curry and Zach.

    I think by going with Crawford, Robinson, Balkman, Lee and Jeffries, you get a radical change, with younger, higher energy players. If their offense isn’t going great, you can mix it up by bringing in some of the offensive specialists.

    The only dangers I see in this starting five is that you have youth and with youth comes mental errors. But I think this is a .500 team with these starters…

    I’m off the soap box. I know I’ve been pushing this idea, but I have seen nothing in recent weeks to change my mind. This would be a productive, stingy team, with offensive punch when needed.

    But defensively-minded teams win.

  41. Roshi

    Top 10 Knicks Scapegoats (in no particular order):

    1) Clyde:
    As JoeV has astutely pointed out, the Knicks are incapable of tuning out Clyde’s constant, indefensible berating of them. Eddy Curry cries himself to sleep every night, hoping that in the next broadcast, Clyde will complement his tremendous footwork and shotblocking.

    2) Don Marbury:
    Stephon was playing Lebron-calibre ball before the untimely death of his father. This emotional shock cause Marbury to have a nervous breakdown, and unfortunately, Nate Robinson has been too slow and too poor of a shooter to compensate for the loss of Stephon. Luckily, Mardy Collins is here to save the day.

    3) The Fans
    The constant booing at the garden has gotten to the Knicks players, who have chosen to spite the fans by giving zero effort. Their massive seven figure salaries don’t count for anything; they only want to be loved.

    4) Herb Williams
    Isiah has made countless brilliant trades and installed a foolproof, cohesive strategy. However, Herb Williams’ overpowering negative influence has caused the team to play poorly. The Knicks try desperately to follow Isiah’s sage advice, but with Herb undermining Isiah at every turn, the Knicks just can’t get on track.

    5) Renaldo Balkman
    The Knicks were playing at a championship level until Balkman came to town. His lack of hustle and poor per minute production have poisoned the Knicks selfless play. Even, Z-bo, the league’s posterboy for pass-first offense, has been infected by Balkman’s selfishness.

    6) The Salary Cap
    If not for the stupid salary cap, Isiah could just go out and spend more money on free agents and trade for high-$, high-value superstars that will be the cornerstone of the franchise for years to come, like Marbury was. Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter, here we come!

    7) David Stern
    Isiah has had countless blockbuster trades that would have immediately saved the Knicks, ready to go, but the commmissioner doesn’t think it’s in the league’s best interest to have a premier franchise and top market be a good team. Stern figures that if he conspires to keep the Knicks at the bottom of the league, other small market teams will have more opportunity to compete.

    8) The Frozen Envelope
    The Knicks would have been so much better off had Stern not rigged the 1985 Draft Lottery. Having Patrick Ewing lead the team for over a decade spoiled the fanbase. If we had been lousy for all those years, then we would think the 2007-2008 Knicks are great by comparison. Plus, we would have collected so many draft picks, but then again…Isiah would have traded them away by now.

    9) Anucha Brown Sanders
    The Knicks back office vixen clearly distracted Isiah and Dolan from excelling at their jobs as they tend to do. If she had just kept quiet and let Isiah and Dolan go on emotionally abusing their employees, then Jerome James would be averaging 20 and 10 right now.

    10) Kevin Pritchard
    The GM of the Jailblazers tricked Isiah by sending him a video montage of Z-bo scoring at will in the post. He edited out all the long-range bricks and any play involving defense. Isiah saw this and immediately offered the Knicks 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 first round picks for Z-bo, thinking he was Hakeem the dream reincarnated. Pritchard, being a nice guy, didn’t want to embarrass Isiah, so he only took a few role players off our hands. Clearly, Kevin Pritchard is to blame for the Knicks sucking, because he deceived Isiah.

    Needless to say, Isiah, Dolan, and the starting lineup are doing a bang-up job, and are in no way responsible for the state of the team. Someone has to clear up this mess and JoeV is just the man to do it.

  42. Thomas B.

    I’m assuming you are speaking “reterick”ly.

    Rhetorically: Characterized by overelaborate or bombastic language that is pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous.

    Yup, but just to help the “trolls” see how silly they are.

  43. Z

    “I know I’ve been pushing this idea, but I have seen nothing in recent weeks to change my mind.”

    Frank O.– I give you credit. You were pushing your lineup for a week before it was actually put on the floor. I thought you were over doing it, especially with the Jeffries aspect of it, but there has been no question that the best lineup the Knicks have had this season has been Nate, Crawford, Lee, Balkman, and Jeffries (even though Marbury was your choice over Crawford pre-surgery).

    Still, arguing Jeffries over Curry at center is really just arguing for several more wins over the next 40 games. At the end of the year is it really going to make a positive difference? Curry isn’t going anywhere for a while (and he certainly isn’t going anywhere if he’s not even starting). Jeffries, though probably an improvement over Curry for the rest of this year, is hardly the center of the future. There is no real benefit to starting him, or even playing him significant minutes. Arguing Balkman and Lee makes more sense because they could, presumably, be the players we build around. Jeffries doesn’t fit that mold. If we want to see a new center get significant minutes, how about Randolph Morris, since by Feb. 21 the Knicks are going to have to trade him or watch him walk (or even J. James, who may be hungry to prove himself now that he’s healthy (and when Jerome James is hungry no one can stop him…))

  44. Frank O.

    Z:
    Thanks for the note.
    You’re right, I preferred Marbury to Crawford, but the injury forced an adjustment.
    (Last night was a classic case of why I think Crawford is a sixth man. When he shoots like that, there is utterly no other reason to have him out there. He’s not an assist machine, doesn’t rebound, doesn’t play defense. He’s just a huge liability).

    As to your question…:
    Assuming Jeffries responds to more playing time and becomes a competent contributor, then the benefit might be in showcasing him. Maybe he would have value in a trade down the road (or at least he could play himself closer to his current salary).
    There are plenty of teams that would like to have a 6’11, defensively-minded player with quickness.
    Sitting him on the bench does nothing for his value.
    With Curry, everyone knows what he is. I don’t think Jeffries is defined yet.
    He had emerged as a decent defender and contributor on the Wizards, which is why Zeke took him. He also was pretty impressive before his injury last year.
    But I believe Isiah never gave the guy a shot after the injury.

    I see the logic in what you say. But I could use the same argument when you speak of staying with Curry.
    What is to be gained, except that Curry makes all the other defenders on the court look bad?

    See having a solid defender in the middle is a linchpin for any team.

    With Curry in there, there is no defensive continuity and the rest of the Bricks become worse defenders for it.

    How many times has Lee looked foolish because Curry’s defense breaks down and Lee either gets jobbed by that player, or when that player dishes to Lee’s guy when Lee comes over to help? How frustrating that must be. It might actually make you reluctant to leave your guy so at least Curry is the one who looks bad. Nobody wants to be a poster.

    Secondly, Curry weakens the perimeter defense (which already is weak) because the guards and SFs are more likely to attack the basket because there is a lead foot in the middle who won’t oppose their shots.

    This is where Jeffries at 6’11 with 7-footer arms could serve as a fair deterrent. I could see him shoring things up a bit in the middle. And with Lee/Randolph working the boards with him, it could be good. He’s no Camby, but I could see him being a strong weak-side defender as Camby was early on.

    It is my contention that Curry being out there harms the development of players like Lee and Balkman and Robinson.
    I’d rather have a defensively sound (not great, but sound) team, where my young guys can learn about team D, than one that continues to lose because there is a defensive weak link in your core defensive position…

  45. Ess-dog

    Again, what about Balkman???
    3 blocks! Attacking the rim, 4-5 in the first half. Why can’t he start, Zeke? I guess it’s better to collect ping pong balls anyway, right?
    And Curry, OMG. Reading his quotes in the post are hilarious. “W-w-why wasn’t I in at the end of the game? I made all my open layups!”
    How can he not understand that he is a defensive liability that watches the G.S. guards moonwalk to the basket while his hands are in his pockets, hoping to find a Snickers bar?
    Any Zach/Lee/Jeffries combo surely isn’t perfect, but at this point, I think Spike Lee could defend the paint with more guts than “E-City”.
    Sorry but his D has not only not improved, it seems to have gotten worse. Argh.

  46. MarkG

    “Little Penny” could defend the paint with more gusto than Curry.

    Since we acquired Randolph Curry’s scoring is not needed to the point where we should be willing to put up with his complete failure to play any sort of productive basketball when he does not have the ball in his hand.

    I really am rooting for Eddie to play better on both ends of the court, to improve to the point where he can say make a jump shot in a pinch, rebound, box out, and pass out of a double team (that may be a failure in the scheme of the offense for all I know it’s not like we have Tex Winter on the bench).

    James, Rose and Jefferies are better defenders. Not sure what Morris can do since he has played only 5 minutes the entire year. That seems wrong. I suppose I will have to trust that the coach knows what he is doing and assume that Morris is not ready to contribute.

    Given the fact that our team has more or less stunk since 2000-2001 I think I will choose to believe that Morris needs to see some daylight so we know what we have when it comes time to resign him.

  47. knicksfan

    I honestly think most of the problems have been worked out…team wise. I think that they might be actually listening to their coach instead of having their huge ego’s get in the way. Common sense, rebound, play defense, distribute the basketball and you’ll have good looks at the rim and will win more games. I think Lee, Crawford and Nate (at times) show how to “gut check” themselves late in games. They didn’t do anything in the 1st half, I think, because of Marbury. He showed NO leadership this year!! Drove a wedge into his team and everyone just quit playing! If this was the knicks of the past Oakley would have knocked someone out in the lockeroom!

  48. Frank O.

    Not so fast Knicksfan:

    This morning Zeke noted how well Zach was passing out of the double team in the first half of the GSW game, but in the second half Zeke said Zach was more concerned about getting his 20 points than passing and so he had no assists in the second half. He suggest this cost the Bricks the game.
    That is unacceptable. That is the very selfish play that has been his hallmark. Zeke said if he had continued to pass he might have had a triple double.

    Curry had the same problem. He’s thinking he wants to get his own, and complained about not getting the ball down the stretch. But Crawford said that Curry isn’t always as open has he thinks he is and if they had tried to force the ball to him, there would have been more turnovers.
    And then there is the D issue, where you can’t have a defensive liability on the floor down the stretch.

    Also with Robinson and Crawford at the one and two, the scoring options open up with Curry or Randolph on the blocks.

    But this is exactly why the Bricks need to use htese two jokers for scoring off the bench.

    Defensively focused teams are by their very nature less selfish. No one can tell me that Lee, Jeffries, Balkman, Crawford and Robinson would be selfish. The ball would move, there would be defensive help in the paint.

    I amazed that after this many years in basketball that Zach and Curry need to be schooled on the value of team play.

  49. Ray

    Z …
    what were you saying about Randolph Morris and the trading deadline? Is his contract up already at the end of this year? What a waste. Good for him though he got paid to watch NBA basketball games.

  50. knicksfan

    Not so??

    You’re saying the knicks didn’t quit playing when Marbury was on the floor?? Just watch any first half game after Marbury left the team. No one wanted to play with him because if they did what he did they would be on the BENCH.
    As far as your “defensive lineup” You’re rigt everyone would pass the ball because only Nate and Crawford can shoot. Balkman and Lee are rebounders and can’t shoot anywhere besides 5 feet from the rim, but they do bring intensity on defense.
    If Curry learned low post moves like Andrew Bynum has, or Yao Ming has by working with an allstar center like Patrick Ewing on his foot work, and Zach stops shooting everytime he touches the ball (he’s been better recently) then they would be tough to beat.

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