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Thursday, December 18, 2014

Jason Kidd Officially Retiring from the NBA

Jason Kidd is officially retiring from the NBA. He told ESPNNewYork.com:

I think it is the right time. When you think about 19 years, it has been a heckuva ride. Physically, I want to be able to participate in activities with my kids so it has taken a toll. It is time to move on and think about maybe coaching or doing some broadcasting.

“Jeff [Schwartz, Kidd’s agent] and I and my family had been talking this past weekend. We talked a lot and we felt it was the right time to move on and so we notified the Knicks. They were kind of taken aback. We told them [earlier] that I wanted to come back and play. But this weekend was when we got a chance to relax [and really think about it]. It is the right thing to do.

Wow, a big time decision here.

Kidd had a wonderful NBA career, achieving pretty much everything a player can hope for (multiple All-Star appearances, lots of playoff appearances and winning a championship where he actually was an important part of the team). We’ll miss him.

Hopefully the Knicks will be able to acquire a replacement guard on the open market. With Chris Copeland possibly needing part of the mini-MLE, it will be interesting to see who they end up with.

44 comments on “Jason Kidd Officially Retiring from the NBA

  1. Douglas

    He gave us everything he had this season. I wish Woodson had managed his minutes more conservatively. It was a privilege to have him in a Knicks uniform.

  2. DCrockett17

    Congratulations to Jason Kidd on a Hall of Fame career. I am fortunate that we finally got him in a Knicks uniform, even if only at the end.

  3. Caleb

    I think it’s safe to say they needed a replacement anyway. I don’t think JK was ever going to play meaningful minutes again.

    I should know, but what if any cap relief do the Knicks get? Nothing, really, given where they are re: the cap?

  4. Hubert

    I hope we bring him out of retirement in March. No, maybe April. His play for the first 6 weeks of the season were tremendous. Just take the year off and come back at the last possible moment.

  5. Caleb

    I guess now is the wrong time to point out they could have given the Kidd/Camby $$ to Jeremy Lin and still pocketed a few million this year and next.

    Instead, we will give praise to Jason Kidd, many-time NBA All-Star and in his prime one of the most fun players to watch, ever. Back when he *really* couldn’t shoot, it was amazing the way he could dominate long stretches of a game without taking a single shot. Like Magic. The fact he could still play at age 40 (at least, age 38 or 39) just tells you how good he was before he lost everything off his fastball.

  6. DCrockett17

    In terms of impact on next season, one thing concerns me a little.

    NY’s ridiculously low turnover rate wasn’t fluky, but some of the main reasons for it being so low are being undermined.

    1. On the plus side, I’m gonna give JR the benefit of the doubt and say his low turnovers this year were not just a career year. (They weren’t.) But, there is a chance he won’t be back. Remember, he led NY in minutes by a country mile.

    2. Shump was out a lot. Not that he turns it over like Steve Francis, but he only played half a season and we didn’t depend on him the way we will need to next year. His modal type of turnover–overpenetration–worries me the most. Shump doesn’t always know where his shot should come from, and that leads to turnovers. We should get some maturation from him, but almost certainly our turnovers will go up by having him healthy [knock wood] for an entire season.

    3. Similarly, STAT was out two separate times. To his credit he did less dribbling when healthy. His minutes are also going to need to be managed, but you know it’s a problem.

    4. Jason Kidd and Prigioni could be gone. What I loved about this team is that the low turnovers were mostly the result of having one of the smartest teams in the league. Two key pieces of that could be gone.

  7. Frank O.

    I hope they bring Kidd back as a coach.
    I don’t want Nate. We already have a taller version of him who is actually better.

  8. Donnie Walsh

    ephus: No, if you retire, the team no longer has the obligation to pay you.If they choose to pay you, you stay on the salary cap.

    Caaried over from the previous thread (it being more relevant here):

    According to Coon, the guaranteed money is still due to Kidd even in retirement, unless they agree on a buyout:

    “Most retirements before a player’s contract is up come in the form of a buyout. The reason for this is that while a guaranteed contract obligates the team to pay the player, it also requires the player to render his services as a professional basketball player…the compromise arrangement players & teams make is for the team to agree to let the player walk, while the player agrees to take less money. These buyout amounts then count against the team’s cap…For contracts signed under the current CBA the buyout is paid across two times the number of remaining seasons plus one (i.e., a contract with one year left is paid out over three years, and a contract with two years left is paid out over five), and the team can also elect to spread the cap hit out over those same years.”

  9. ephus

    Donnie Walsh is right. Here is the language from the CBA (the 2011 version is finally on the ‘Net):

    (ii) Any amount called for in a retired player’s Player Contract paid or
    to be paid to the player. When a player retires and the Team continues to pay such amounts,
    then, for purposes of computing the player’s Salary for the then-current and any remaining
    Salary Cap Year covered by the Contract, the aggregate of such amounts, notwithstanding the
    payment schedule, shall be allocated pro rata over the then-current and each remaining Salary 157
    Cap Year on the basis of the remaining unearned protected Compensation in each such Salary
    Cap Year at the time of retirement.

  10. ephus

    If Kidd retires without a buyout, so he does not get paid, the Knicks would get $3.1 million in salary cap relief this year.

  11. Frank

    that whole things sounds a little fishy. what’s to keep a player from just retiring, forcing a high buyout $, then Derek-Fishering into another guaranteed contract 6 months later?

    seems to me that by retiring, you are breaking the terms of your contract. if that happens, it stands to reason that the other party should get to do the same.

    that’s only common sense talking — I’m sure Ephus and Donnie Walsh are right.

  12. ephus

    The CBA explicitly provides that if you retire, you cannot rejoin the league without the permission of all 30 of the owners, and you cannot apply for reinstatement for 1 year.

    Here is Larry Coon cbafaq.com breaking it down:

    61. What are the rules for retired players? What if the player suffers a career-ending injury?

    There’s nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement. The player can still sign a new contract and continue playing (if he’s not under contract), or return to his team (if he is still under contract) and resume his career.

    The only exception to this is when a player is still under contract, wants to quit, and his team doesn’t want to let him out of his contract. Under these circumstances the player can file for retirement with the league. The player is placed on the league’s Voluntarily Retired list (see question number 77), forgoes his remaining salary, and cannot return to the league for one year. The latter requirement prevents players from using retirement as an underhanded way to change teams, and can be overridden with unanimous approval from all 30 teams. For example, guard Jason Williams signed with the LA Clippers in August 2008, then changed his mind the following month, announcing his retirement. He applied for reinstatement in early 2009, but his request was denied by a vote of 24-6. Williams later signed with the Orlando Magic once the one-year anniversary of his retirement announcement had passed.

  13. Hubert

    I find the narrative of this Heat-Pacers series oddly peculiar. To wit, from the very intelligent Kirk Goldsberry:

    “You can’t slow down one of the best offenses in the NBA without disarming a lot of weapons. Throughout this series the Pacers have done a wonderful job taking away many of Miami’s go-to scoring techniques. During the regular season, no player shot more right-corner 3s than Shane Battier; Indiana killed that. Also, few players were as potent from midrange as Chris Bosh, whose exquisite 18-foot jump shots not only generated lots of points, but also created key attacking corridors for his teammates; Indiana killed that too. The Pacers have so limited Dwyane Wade that it has caused countless media outlets to question LeBron James’s entire career path.”

    But Miami’s ORtg’s are:

    G1 107.3
    G2 111.7
    G3 134.6
    G4 115.8
    G5 107.8
    G6 92.1

    So, I mean, great work on Saturday, guys. And yeah, they’ve taken things away, but Miami’s offense (112.3 ORtg during the regular season) has proven to be pretty damn resilient in the face of this defense, even if Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh have shrunk from it.

  14. nyk8806

    Agreed that it’s a bit fishy. It allows teams to overbid on guys on the tail end of their careers by offering oversized contracts–if he works out, then great, but if/when the player looks like he won’t be worth the rest of his contract, they can simply opt for “retirement” and do something under the table w/r/t the buyout and/or agree to no buyout but get a coaching/consulting/MSG broadcasting gig. Seems no worse then letting the team pay Chris Smith the league minimum to ride the pine.

    I could see us doing this plus the Chris Smith thing and having no draft picks until 2025.

  15. BigBlueAL

    Hubert:
    I find the narrative of this Heat-Pacers series oddly peculiar.To wit, from the very intelligent Kirk Goldsberry:

    “You can’t slow down one of the best offenses in the NBA without disarming a lot of weapons. Throughout this series the Pacers have done a wonderful job taking away many of Miami’s go-to scoring techniques. During the regular season, no player shot more right-corner 3s than Shane Battier; Indiana killed that. Also, few players were as potent from midrange as Chris Bosh, whose exquisite 18-foot jump shots not only generated lots of points, but also created key attacking corridors for his teammates; Indiana killed that too. The Pacers have so limited Dwyane Wade that it has caused countless media outlets to question LeBron James’s entire career path.”

    But Miami’s ORtg’s are:

    G1 107.3
    G2 111.7
    G3 134.6
    G4 115.8
    G5 107.8
    G6 92.1

    So, I mean, great work on Saturday, guys.And yeah, they’ve taken things away, but Miami’s offense (112.3 ORtg during the regular season) has proven to be pretty damn resilient in the face of this defense, even if Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh have shrunk from it.

    This is the weird part of this series, its not the Pacers D which is giving the Heat problems. Its their offense. The Pacers have shut down Wade and Bosh but the Heat are still scoring very efficiently. They just cant stop the Pacers from scoring just as efficiently. Been a very strange series.

  16. flossy

    Hubert:
    I find the narrative of this Heat-Pacers series oddly peculiar.To wit, from the very intelligent Kirk Goldsberry:

    “You can’t slow down one of the best offenses in the NBA without disarming a lot of weapons. Throughout this series the Pacers have done a wonderful job taking away many of Miami’s go-to scoring techniques. During the regular season, no player shot more right-corner 3s than Shane Battier; Indiana killed that. Also, few players were as potent from midrange as Chris Bosh, whose exquisite 18-foot jump shots not only generated lots of points, but also created key attacking corridors for his teammates; Indiana killed that too. The Pacers have so limited Dwyane Wade that it has caused countless media outlets to question LeBron James’s entire career path.”

    But Miami’s ORtg’s are:

    G1 107.3
    G2 111.7
    G3 134.6
    G4 115.8
    G5 107.8
    G6 92.1

    So, I mean, great work on Saturday, guys.And yeah, they’ve taken things away, but Miami’s offense (112.3 ORtg during the regular season) has proven to be pretty damn resilient in the face of this defense, even if Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh have shrunk from it.

    The results might not look much different, but it’s taking superhuman effort from LeBron James to make up for the big fat nothing that his co-stars are contributing. He may be a ridiculous physical specimen, but it’s tough to carry your entire team’s offense against probably the best D in the league. LeBron coughed it up several times in the waning minutes of game six, trying to force the action with no other reliable scoring options. If the Heat’s many-pronged attack hadn’t been whittled down to LBJ hero ball, would those turnovers have happened? Who knows…

  17. ephus

    nyk8806:
    Agreed that it’s a bit fishy.It allows teams to overbid on guys on the tail end of their careers by offering oversized contracts–if he works out, then great, but if/when the player looks like he won’t be worth the rest of his contract, they can simply opt for “retirement” and do something under the table w/r/t the buyout and/or agree to no buyout but get a coaching/consulting/MSG broadcasting gig.Seems no worse then letting the team pay Chris Smith the league minimum to ride the pine.

    I could see us doing this plus the Chris Smith thing and having no draft picks until 2025.

    I thought you were trolling me, until the last paragraph. I REALLY hope that James Dolan is not stupid enough to strong arm his people (who know better) into doing either of these stupid things.

  18. AvonBarksdale

    This may sound silly but i keep thinking about the knicks before i go to sleep and i had a dream where coach woodson just forced tyson chandler to shoot the 15 footers about 5-8 times a game wherein he hit about 35% consistently on those shots just to really open up the floor and spread the defense and that was the one thing that made a huge improvement and we easily defeated all opponents and he was way more relaxed and consistent on the defensive end due to his participation in the offense.plus he would still be good to throw down a few dunks and pick and rolls type plays. woke up realized i’m still not over the season yet.

  19. Sibenik

    I have a question. If Camby also retires and his salary is taken away from the team’s payroll along with Kidd’s, the Knicks would only have 67 million $ committed for the next season. So, the team would have the full MLE (well under the luxury tax threshold). Am I right?

  20. yellowboy90

    I think the more likely scenario is Camby and 3mill. being involved in a trade since he last year is partially guaranteed. I would think about moving Novak to the Blazers for a 2nd and get the rights to Pap back.

  21. max fisher-cohen

    Sibenik:
    I have a question. If Camby also retires and his salary is taken away from the team’s payroll along with Kidd’s, the Knicks would only have 67 million $ committed for the next season. So, the team would have the full MLE (well under the luxury tax threshold). Am I right?

    I’m pretty sure NY is at $73.6m without Kidd’s contract. See my comment here for why: http://knickerblogger.net/a-fitting-return/#comment-438010

    Even if I’m wrong, that number doesn’t include JR Smith’s $5m, so you’re essentially trading Smith to upgrade from the $3m mini MLE to toe $5m MLE. Probably not worth it since it makes it much more likely Prigioni and Copeland leave. Martin’s decision may be less financially motivated considering how much he’s made in his career.

  22. d-mar

    Chris Bosh is such a big pussy. He makes a couple of shots in the 2nd quarter and celebrates like he just won an NBA championship.

  23. yellowboy90

    max fisher-cohen: I’m pretty sure NY is at $73.6m without Kidd’s contract. See my comment here for why: http://knickerblogger.net/a-fitting-return/#comment-438010

    Even if I’m wrong, that number doesn’t include JR Smith’s $5m, so you’re essentially trading Smith to upgrade from the $3m mini MLE to toe $5m MLE. Probably not worth it since it makes it much more likely Prigioni and Copeland leave. Martin’s decision may be less financially motivated considering how much he’s made in his career.

    Going by the salary at HoopWorld not including Jr,Cope, Prigs, and White but with the 24th pick at 1m and the 4 spots at 2m the total is about 67.3 mill

  24. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    d-mar:
    Chris Bosh is such a big pussy. He makes a couple of shots in the 2nd quarter and celebrates like he just won an NBA championship.

    Maybe he knows that 5 points in the 2nd quarter are worth as many as 5 points in the 4th.

    ; )

  25. JK47

    Indiana didn’t show up for this game. They’re down by 13 but they may as well be down by 50 the way they’re playing.

    Stick a fork in them.

  26. d-mar

    JK47:
    Indiana didn’t show up for this game. They’re down by 13 but they may as well be down by 50 the way they’re playing.

    Stick a fork in them.

    I know they’re everyone’s darlings, but the way they turn the ball over is a major issue (along with their awful bench).

  27. Brian Cronin Post author

    Smith won’t count as $5 million until they sign him. His cap hold is $3.64 million (130% of his current salary of $2.8 million). That said, yeah, I think you still have a locked salary cap if you use the MLE even if you technically go over it later in the offseason (like if you use a MLE to take you to $73 million and then re-sign a guy for $5 million, you still count as going over the apron using the MLE and your cap is locked for the year).

  28. Loathing

    Who said Kidd’s replacement has to be through FA? Could we not find a serviceable PG at #24?

  29. mr.JayP

    d-mar: I know they’re everyone’s darlings, but the way they turn the ball over is a major issue (along with their awful bench).

    Like I said. They are just a consistent Pg away from being better than Mia. It’s hurting them that they aren’t getting good whistles.

  30. BigBlueAL

    d-mar: I know they’re everyone’s darlings, but the way they turn the ball over is a major issue (along with their awful bench).

    Pacers are a very good team but people have forgotten that 7 teams in the NBA won 54 or more games while the Pacers won 49 games. Also they have the worst bench in the NBA. Granger returning healthy would obviously help that last part, although maybe he returns as a starter and Stephenson goes back to the bench.

    Again the Pacers are very good but they have some major flaws too.

  31. BigBlueAL

    Loathing:
    Who said Kidd’s replacement has to be through FA? Could we not find a serviceable PG at #24?

    Pray for Shane Larkin to be available at #24.

  32. yellowboy90

    So does West come back to the Pacers Next year. He will likely ask for 11-13 mil which is doable but will another team give him 15 mil?

  33. Brian Cronin Post author

    So does West come back to the Pacers Next year. He will likely ask for 11-13 mil which is doable but will another team give him 15 mil?

    If David West gets $15 million on the open market, I think the NBA should be forced to dissolve.

  34. jon abbey

    Hibbert evidently left the arena very quickly after the game, no slo mo.

    (stolen from Twitter)

  35. Brian Cronin Post author

    Ha. That’s classic. I still can’t believe the dude actually said “no homo.” That’s so hilariously stupid. Almost as stupid as saying that you wouldn’t respect a teammate like Derrick Rose and then tweeting Rose “no disrespect” (I won’t forget, Bradley Beal, I’ll never forget!).

  36. Brian Cronin Post author

    By the way, check out this hilariously stupid defense of Hibbert’s use of “no homo” I saw in some newspaper online:

    Hibbert’s use of “no homo” was meant to indicate that the explanation leading up to it should not be seen as an expression of positive personal sentiments regarding James, who has been a fierce rival of Hibbert’s in this ongoing Eastern Conference Finals.

    He was explaining that James’ skills were what led him to be able to take advantage of Hibbert in the Saturday showdown, but that his respect for LBJ’s game should not be misconstrued as an indication that he harbors any particular good will for him.

    No, you moron, that is not what Hibbert was saying. He used the term after saying “LeBron was scoring in the post or getting to the paint ’cause he was stretching me out so much.” So no, he was not saying it because it sounded like he was being too complimentary about Lebron. He was saying that the phrase he used about Lebron “stretching me out so much” “sounded gay,” hence the use of “no homo.”

    Such a moronic defense.

  37. BigBlueAL

    Marc Stein late-night tweet:

    “As Knicks look to inject their team with some youth, word is they’ll be taking a summer-league look at top D-League prospect Toure Murry.”

    Anyone ever heard of this kid??

  38. Brian Cronin Post author

    Never heard of him, but neither his size nor his numbers in the D-League look all that impressive. But heck, that’s what the summer league is for, right? To find those surprising players. And Chris Smith, of course. ;)

  39. Hubert

    BigBlueAL:
    Marc Stein late-night tweet:

    “As Knicks look to inject their team with some youth, word is they’ll be taking a summer-league look at top D-League prospect Toure Murry.”

    Anyone ever heard of this kid??

    He was on that Wichita State team that made noise in 2012, but I can’t say I remember him. He’s a 6-5 guard, and the way things have gone with Grunwald recently I’m sure he’ll exceed all expectations and become a solid pro and we’ll all want him to play over JR Smith by April.

  40. KnickfaninNJ

    My impression is that point guards who do surprisingly well right out of the draft are usually scoring point guards. Being able to run an NBA team right out of college is much rarer especially late in the draft. A euro league or maybe D-league guy seems a more likely way to get a competent bench point guard than our 24th position draft pick.

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