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Wednesday, April 23, 2014

Jason Collins: First Openly Gay Active NBA Player

According to Sports Illustrated:

I’m a 34-year-old NBA center. I’m black. And I’m gay.

I didn’t set out to be the first openly gay athlete playing in a major American team sport. But since I am, I’m happy to start the conversation. I wish I wasn’t the kid in the classroom raising his hand and saying, “I’m different.” If I had my way, someone else would have already done this. Nobody has, which is why I’m raising my hand.

I realized I needed to go public when Joe Kennedy, my old roommate at Stanford and now a Massachusetts congressman, told me he had just marched in Boston’s 2012 Gay Pride Parade. I’m seldom jealous of others, but hearing what Joe had done filled me with envy. I was proud of him for participating but angry that as a closeted gay man I couldn’t even cheer my straight friend on as a spectator. If I’d been questioned, I would have concocted half truths. What a shame to have to lie at a celebration of pride. I want to do the right thing and not hide anymore. I want to march for tolerance, acceptance and understanding. I want to take a stand and say, “Me, too.”

The recent Boston Marathon bombing reinforced the notion that I shouldn’t wait for the circumstances of my coming out to be perfect. Things can change in an instant, so why not live truthfully? When I told Joe a few weeks ago that I was gay, he was grateful that I trusted him. He asked me to join him in 2013. We’ll be marching on June 8.

Wow, historic news here!

151 comments on “Jason Collins: First Openly Gay Active NBA Player

  1. Dan Panorama

    Good for Jason Collins. I bet Kidd and Martin will have encouraging words this week, they played with him more than anyone else.

  2. thenamestsam

    Really nice to see a lot of big names in the NBA stepping up to show their support on twitter. Collins is/was obviously a marginal figure, so having some bigger names put it out there that they have his back should hopefully stem some of the hate. Saw Kobe, Nash, Isiah Thomas and a few others already showing him some love. Hopefully a trend that continues.

  3. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, as noted in the previous thread, the only possible downside of this story for me is if Collins does not, in fact, get signed next year. It sort of hurts the whole “Active NBA player coming out” story when the player is, you know, not actively in the NBA.

    But otherwise, very proud of Collins for doing this. Hopefully this will help others feel free to publicly be who they are. I still fear that a gay NBA star will look at this news and say, “Yeah, okay, a journeyman can be gay and it’s no big deal. Heck, it might even help him with endorsements. It won’t help me, though. It will hurt me.” It is sort of like how plenty of gay actors are publicly out, but the leading actors still tend to remain closeted (hopefully Matt Bomer gets some major leading man role soon to dispel that cliche).

  4. Frank O.

    The comments on that story are pretty disturbing, although it seems as tho there are just a few haters restating their hatred over and over.

  5. flossy

    Frank O.:
    The comments on that story are pretty disturbing, although it seems as tho there are just a few haters restating their hatred over and over.

    Eh, haters flock to internet comment sections like moths to a flame.

  6. Loathing

    Good on Jason Collins. Agreed, I hope someone picks him up this offseason. He’s 34, so he’d make the Nix younger…

  7. flossy

    Frank O.: I felt the need to push back a little.

    I hear that, I just meant I don’t think the comment-section response is indicative of much beyond being more of the usual garbage that gets spewed in the comments on almost any post on SI or ESPN (or the NY Post, etc.). Much more heartening is the show of support from people like Kobe, Baron Davis et al on twitter.

  8. DRed

    flossy: I hear that, I just meant I don’t think the comment-section response is indicative of much beyond being more of the usual garbage that gets spewed in the comments on almost any post on SI or ESPN (or the NY Post, etc.).Much more heartening is the show of support from people like Kobe, Baron Davis et al on twitter.

    Right. 10 years ago I wonder if so many prominet players would have been publicly supportive. I also wonder who the first player to say something supid will be

  9. thenamestsam

    flossy: http://deadspin.com/mike-wallace-has-dumb-thoughts-about-gay-people-484560789?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

    Lol. This is the stupidest anti-homosexual argument I’ve ever seen.

    “Why would anybody be gay when women are hot?”

    Really? That’s the thought that runs through your head? I can only assume that he hasn’t really thought through what the repercussions are going to be if all the ladies realize that they shouldn’t be straight because women are so hot. It’s going to be bad news for us straight men.

  10. Juany8

    Guys I don’t think mike Wallace was trying to be malicious, more like somebody saying “I can’t believe people eat at fast good places when sit down restaurants are so much more delicious!”

    Somebody needs to sit down and have a talk with him, but this was a simple ignorant statement, truth is a lot of these professional athletes are not all that intelligent lol. There’s no need to grab the pitchforks, just have a quick laugh at his expense and move on.

  11. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Juany8:
    Guys I don’t think mike Wallace was trying to be malicious, more like somebody saying “I can’t believe people eat at fast good places when sit down restaurants are so much more delicious!”

    Somebody needs to sit down and have a talk with him, but this was a simple ignorant statement, truth is a lot of these professional athletes are not all that intelligent lol. There’s no need to grab the pitchforks, just have a quick laugh at his expense and move on.

    Right. He wasn’t saying what Hardaway said, which is that homosexuality is an abomination and a sin and that every gay dude’s going to burn in the fires of hell for all eternity for making out with other dudes. It’s just closed-minded.

    I think that the essence of being “straight” (whatever that means) is that one honestly cannot see what gay men see in other men. Mike Wallace apparently doesn’t realize that one can want to have sex with every woman he sees but still find men sexually appealing.

  12. mokers

    Juany8:
    Guys I don’t think mike Wallace was trying to be malicious, more like somebody saying “I can’t believe people eat at fast good places when sit down restaurants are so much more delicious!”

    Somebody needs to sit down and have a talk with him, but this was a simple ignorant statement, truth is a lot of these professional athletes are not all that intelligent lol. There’s no need to grab the pitchforks, just have a quick laugh at his expense and move on.

    From the article, the best part is the unintentional double entendre of Mike Wallace’s twitter bio, where he lists his location as “N Somebodys Endzone!!!”

  13. johnlocke

    Think it’s pretty surprising that he’s the first active player from a major US sport to come out. It will/would be really interesting if a truly marquee player (like a Kobe, Melo, Durant, etc) were to come out…

  14. thenamestsam

    If that Mike Wallace quote doesn’t quite reach the bar for maliciousness it seems like Chris Broussard decided to get the ball rolling on some of that good old-fashioned homophobia:

    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rk1j9m

    He went with some classic bigot defenses including the black friend excuse (“How can I be a racist if I have a black friend?”) and, my personal favorite, the equivalence between being tolerant of minorities and being tolerant of people who are intolerant of minorities.

    So I guess calling Chris Broussard a homophobe makes me just as intolerant as Chris Broussard is for saying Jason Collins is “living in unrepentant sin”. I can live with that. Fuck you Chris Broussard! You’re a homophobe!

  15. flossy

    Juany8:
    Guys I don’t think mike Wallace was trying to be malicious, more like somebody saying “I can’t believe people eat at fast good places when sit down restaurants are so much more delicious!”

    Somebody needs to sit down and have a talk with him, but this was a simple ignorant statement, truth is a lot of these professional athletes are not all that intelligent lol. There’s no need to grab the pitchforks, just have a quick laugh at his expense and move on.

    I don’t think anyone thinks he was being malicious. He happened to pick a bad day to share his half-baked thoughts about the nature of sexual attraction, but it’s notable more for being stupid and ill-timed than for being hateful. I don’t doubt that there are true blue homophobes in the NBA and every other sports league, but most people seem to have received the “say something nice or STFU” memo today.

    For what it’s worth, if you’ve been following his saga, Tim Hardaway has done pretty much a complete about-face since his insanely hateful rant 5 years ago, including campaigning against a recall of public officials in El Paso who were being targeted by religious conservatives over their protection of domestic partnership benefits. He’s not going to be on top of a rainbow parade float any time soon, but it is heartening…

  16. Juany8

    flossy: I don’t think anyone thinks he was being malicious.He happened to pick a bad day to share his half-baked thoughts about the nature of sexual attraction, but it’s notable more for being stupid and ill-timed than for being hateful.I don’t doubt that there are true blue homophobes in the NBA and every other sports league, but most people seem to have received the “say something nice or STFU” memo today.

    For what it’s worth, if you’ve been following his saga, Tim Hardaway has done pretty much a complete about-face since his insanely hateful rant 5 years ago, including campaigning against a recall of public officials in El Paso who were being targeted by religious conservatives over their protection of domestic partnership benefits.He’s not going to be on top of a rainbow parade float any time soon, but it is heartening…

    Yea just wanted to point that out, ignorance should be remedied and possibly made fun of, no need to hate on a guy for not really understanding another person’s sexuality.

    On another note, if you ever meet a Christian who is angrily hating and judging another person or group of people, just point out that they are insulting Jesus’ memory more than anyone else. His main message, over anything and everything else, was to love and accept your neighbor, regardless of who they are. Just because someone is wearing a cross necklace and shouting “praise Jesus” doesn’t make them a proper Christian.

  17. Keniman Shumpwalker

    flossy: Eh, haters flock to internet comment sections like moths to a flame.

    Nothing is more inviting to a cowardly bigot than the cozy anonymity of the intoenets.

  18. massive

    I don’t necessarily find anything wrong with what Broussard said. I feel like if you have a problem with what Broussard said, you have to have a problem with Christianity. It’s supposedly clear in the bible that homosexuality goes against God’s will, and yadda yadda yadda. A lot of religious zealots feel the same way about it. But if you are really religious, religion teaches universal acceptance. For what it’s worth, I have no problem with homosexuality and I don’t believe that being yourself is a sin. I’m not even a Christian. I just think they need to rewrite the bible like they did almost 1500 years ago.

  19. ruruland

    massive:
    I don’t necessarily find anything wrong with what Broussard said. I feel like if you have a problem with what Broussard said, you have to have a problem with Christianity. It’s supposedly clear in the bible that homosexuality goes against God’s will, and yadda yadda yadda. A lot of religious zealots feel the same way about it. But if you are really religious, religion teaches universal acceptance. For what it’s worth, I have no problem with homosexuality and I don’t believe that being yourself is a sin. I’m not even a Christian. I just think they need to rewrite the bible like they did almost 1500 years ago.

    Yeah, Jesus hated gays. He couldn’t stop talking about it.

  20. Brian Cronin

    Ha! Yeah, exactly. Honestly, even if Broussard seriously believes his nonsense, the guy should be smart enough to shut the hell up about it.

  21. mokers

    Broussard is on the payroll to say idiotic things. The fact that he gets to say something about something he actually believes in is a mere coincidence.

  22. Juany8

    I will back Broussard up on one point, in that according to the Christian faith, you are never, ever supposed to have sex except for the explicit purpose of having kids under wedlock. Since you’re also not supposed to get divorced, the idea is that you’re going to be having sex with 1 person, and never use birth control. On top of that, Catholic priests can’t have sex period. So the church has absolutely no problem telling two people who are totally in love that sex is a sin they shouldn’t do.

    The church pretty much tells people not to have sex unless its for the functional purpose, if these activists were serious about protecting the sanctity of marriage, they should be trying to get condoms banned just as much as gay marriage lol. A guy living with a longtime girlfriend is “living in unrepentant sin” just as much as any gay couple. The fact that people protest against this only when it’s a same sex couple is pure bigotism, it has nothing to do with Christianity.

  23. ruruland

    mokers:
    Broussard is on the payroll to say idiotic things. The fact that he gets to say something about something he actually believes in is a mere coincidence.

    Broussard is actually on the payroll to be ESPN’s ace NBA reporter taking over for Bucher (who I thought was really good), which is he pretty decent at, but it makes the fact that he’s speaking out even more puzzling.

  24. ruruland

    Juany8:
    I will back Broussard up on one point, in that according to the Christian faith, you are never, ever supposed to have sex except for the explicit purpose of having kids under wedlock. Since you’re also not supposed to get divorced, the idea is that you’re going to be having sex with 1 person, and never use birth control. On top of that, Catholic priests can’t have sex period. So the church has absolutely no problem telling two people who are totally in love that sex is a sin they shouldn’t do.

    The church pretty much tells people not to have sex unless its for the functional purpose, if these activists were serious about protecting the sanctity of marriage, they should be trying to get condoms banned just as much as gay marriage lol. A guy living with a longtime girlfriend is “living in unrepentant sin” just as much as any gay couple. The fact that people protest against this only when it’s a same sex couple is pure bigotism, it has nothing to do with Christianity.

    And it’s not as though the Broussard’s don’t know the basic logic there, which makes it even worse imo.

  25. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, exactly. When an NBA player’s girlfriend has a kid when they’re not married, does Broussard comment on it to point out that he thinks what they’re doing is a sin?

  26. massive

    ruruland: Yeah, Jesus hated gays. He couldn’t stop talking about it.

    lol, that’s not what I’m trying to say at all. I’m just saying that the way the Bible is written (from what I understand) helps people justify their ignorance. It’s stupid and hypocritical, honestly. But that’s how most religious zealots come across anyway.

  27. JK47

    What about that part of the Bible that says “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” It’s Matthew something-or-other, I think. If Steve Broussard was really such a good Christian, he’d have said that it’s not his place to judge Jason Collins.

    Instead he decided to be an asshat.

  28. mokers

    ruruland: Broussard is actually on the payroll to be ESPN’s ace NBA reporter taking over for Bucher (who I thought was really good), which is he pretty decent at, but it makes the fact that he’s speaking out even more puzzling.

    I guess I don’t watch enough ESPN then. I’ve seen him mainly when they’ve needed him to counterpoint Skip Bayless, which I guess makes it a bad sample size to judge from. Bucher does local sports radio here, he is pretty good.

  29. ruruland

    massive: lol, that’s not what I’m trying to say at all. I’m just saying that the way the Bible is written (from what I understand) helps people justify their ignorance. It’s stupid and hypocritical, honestly. But that’s how most religious zealots come across anyway.

    I guess I’ve always figured that the shit people claim Jesus Christ said would be most important to people who claim to be Christians, and he said nothing about gay sex.

  30. ruruland

    Durant metrics gaming should be drinking game. Takes too long to shoot with clock running down. Goes down as a team turnover instead of a likely missed shot.

    Must not have seen clock on that one *rolls eyes

  31. BigBlueAL

    Larry Johnson’s Twitter timeline today might get him in some trouble with the Knicks. Lets just say he is not very accepting of gay NBA players.

  32. Brian Cronin

    Oh LJ…

    Someone please tell me Charlie Ward is not on Twitter. I don’t want to hear his thoughts on gay players in the NBA.

  33. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin:
    Oh LJ…

    Someone please tell me Charlie Ward is not on Twitter. I don’t want to hear his thoughts on gay players in the NBA.

    Remember during the 1999 Finals on an off-day LJ went off on some weird diatribe to reporters?? Dont remember the specifics. I think it was something about athletes as slaves or something??

  34. Brian Cronin

    Remember during the 1999 Finals on an off-day LJ went off on some weird diatribe to reporters?? Dont remember the specifics. I think it was something about athletes as slaves or something??

    Bill Walton was pretty rough on the Knicks all playoffs long (Walton kept getting assigned to the Knicks’ series, which tended to be the ones that got more attention since they’re New York and all) and LJ didn’t like it. He theorized that the problems guys like Walton had with the Knicks was that they couldn’t be controlled by guys like Walton, that they were, in effect, treated like “runaway slaves.” Yeah, he really did go there.

  35. Juany8

    ruruland: I guess I’ve always figured that the shit people claim Jesus Christ said would be most important to people who claim to be Christians, and he said nothing about gay sex.

    That’s what I find sad about the whole thing. Jesus actually had a pretty beautiful message. Some Christians distort this message for their own gain, telling us all we’ll go to hell if we don’t follow their teachings. There are some truly special people who do follow the Christian faith, and these people don’t feel the need to judge other people to feel morally superior. In fact the most important message Jesus gave was that we are all equals, struggling to get by in life, and that we should endeavor to treat others as we would like to be treated. There was no place for hatred or judgement in his message, and it’s sickening that people use his name to justify their own intolerance.

  36. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin: Bill Walton was pretty rough on the Knicks all playoffs long (Walton kept getting assigned to the Knicks’ series, which tended to be the ones that got more attention since they’re New York and all) and LJ didn’t like it. He theorized that the problems guys like Walton had with the Knicks was that they couldn’t be controlled by guys like Walton, that they were, in effect, treated like “runaway slaves.” Yeah, he really did go there.

    Walton, Steve “Snapper” Jones and Tom Hammond. Loved that trio, they were pretty funny. Did a bunch of Knicks playoff games for NBC in 1999 and 2000.

    Walton HATED whenever LJ did his Big L sign after a 3pter lol.

  37. ruruland

    Juany8: That’s what I find sad about the whole thing. Jesus actually had a pretty beautiful message. Some Christians distort this message for their own gain, telling us all we’ll go to hell if we don’t follow their teachings. There are some truly special people who do follow the Christian faith, and these people don’t feel the need to judge other people to feel morally superior. In fact the most important message Jesus gave was that we are all equals, struggling to get by in life, and that we should endeavor to treat others as we would like to be treated. There was no place for hatred or judgement in his message, and it’s sickening that people use his name to justify their own intolerance.

    It’s the old Ghandi quote. yeah I’m no Christian but I love the basic message.

  38. Juany8

    In other news, Harden is having an absolute nightmare game, it’s really frustrating to watch him have more turnovers than points. Rockets are somehow still in the game though.

  39. ruruland

    Juany8:
    In other news, Harden is having an absolute nightmare game, it’s really frustrating to watch him have more turnovers than points. Rockets are somehow still in the game though.

    It seems really simple to me though. He’s not getting his normal amount of calls on his drives, which has emboldened his defenders (it typically works in reverse).

    Maybe next year he’ll get the Durant playoff whistle, but right now he is living in Melo’s world.

  40. ruruland

    Juany8:
    In other news, Harden is having an absolute nightmare game, it’s really frustrating to watch him have more turnovers than points. Rockets are somehow still in the game though.

    Notice that the more he drives and doesn’t get fouls, the more physical his defender plays. Harden was actually called for pushing off, which you will never see with a guy like Durant because defenders are not allowed to crowd him.

  41. Juany8

    ruruland: It seems really simple to me though. He’s not getting his normal amount of calls on his drives, which has emboldened his defenders (it typically works in reverse).

    Maybe next year he’ll get the Durant playoff whistle, but right now he is living in Melo’s world.

    It’s not that really, he’s not getting the space to drive he usually gets. It always amazed me how open harden would get pretty much at will on the pick and roll, he would draw quite a few cheap calls yes but guess what? He’s been drawing them this series! 30+ free throws in the last 2 games, both losses. The problem is not the cheap calls, the problem is that he’s getting trapped and shut down on the pick and roll. His teammates have been able to take advantage of him somewhat, but since he starts most pick and rolls from outside, drawing an extra defender will still force the person who gets the ball after Harden to make a play, kind of like Prigs and Felton for the Knicks. Since he can’t get space with pick and rolls, and his teammates aren’t particularly awesome offensively (if Asik could consistently finish he would become a monster) Harden has been trying to isolate more and just get by his defender one on one. At this point in his career, he has nothing to fall back on if he can’t get all the way to the rim in either pick and roll or one on one, except taking fairly accurate 3′s off the dribble. Wouldn’t be a huge problem if he was the second or third option on offense, but he’s kind of supposed to be more than that for the Rockets.

  42. ruruland

    Juany8: It’s not that really, he’s not getting the space to drive he usually gets. It always amazed me how open harden would get pretty much at will on the pick and roll, he would draw quite a few cheap calls yes but guess what? He’s been drawing them this series! 30+ free throws in the last 2 games, both losses. The problem is not the cheap calls, the problem is that he’s getting trapped and shut down on the pick and roll. His teammates have been able to take advantage of him somewhat, but since he starts most pick and rolls from outside, drawing an extra defender will still force the person who gets the ball after Harden to make a play, kind of like Prigs and Felton for the Knicks. Since he can’t get space with pick and rolls, and his teammates aren’t particularly awesome offensively (if Asik could consistently finish he would become a monster) Harden has been trying to isolate more and just get by his defender one on one. At this point in his career, he has nothing to fall back on if he can’t get all the way to the rim in either pick and roll or one on one, except taking fairly accurate 3?s off the dribble. Wouldn’t be a huge problem if he was the second or third option on offense, but he’s kind of supposed to be more than that for the Rockets.

    Yeah, but he was trapped for most of the regular season. He’s had multiple drives into the paint as he usually does.

    Defenders are forced to give him space after he gets multiple foul calls on them.

    Naturally you’re right about his lack of versatility as a No.1 hurting his team.

  43. ruruland

    But yeah, as you said and I mentioned previously, the Rockets rely on that weakside penetration out of trapped pnr. You’d think Lin would have been much more effective in that situation. Parsons is great at it.

  44. Juany8

    ruruland: Yeah, but he was trapped for most of the regular season. He’s had multiple drives into the paint as he usually does.

    Defenders are forced to give him space after he gets multiple foul calls on them.

    Naturally you’re right about his lack of versatilityas a No.1 hurting his team.

    Two things: Most shooting guards are pretty mediocre as defenders, especially on the bad teams, and Asik was an absolute monster pick setter, as well as a decent roll threat, certainly on par or better than Kenyon Martin who has done a solid job in that role, especially with the great spacing the two teams have. Harden would still have pretty bad games whenever he was facing an elite defender on a smart team, in the exact same way he’s having issues now. He had some utterly horrendous games as a top option against legit defenders who had size on him.

    Now he’s going against an elite defender on a playoff team game planning to stop him. He’s still drawing a lot of fouls, in fact that’s the only thing that’s made his stat lines bearable, but he’s given up on the pick and roll because teams guard it so much better in the playoffs, along with improved transition defense. This isn’t the first time this situation has happened, for all the praise he gets now everyone forgets that just 2 years ago, Lebron embarrassed himself in the Finals when it turned out that Dallas had no problem containing his pick and roll and “isolation from the 3 point line game”. He had no answer for this, and everyone called him a pussy instead of admitting that he was flawed from a technical standpoint. Funny thing is, just a series before, he was forcing Derrick Rose to give up on the pick and roll because of the same problems Harden is facing, and being utterly unable to do anything against a Heat defense geared to stop him. This is why you need multiple good options, or Lebron…

  45. Juany8

    And…. the Thunder offense has fallen to shit. Happened last game in the second half too. Harden has 8 free throws so far, playing much better in the second half.

  46. Brian Cronin

    Man, C-Webb is such a moron. “Fisher loved to flop but now he can’t so he has to just stand in front of the other player instead” he says as they show the replay of Fisher clearly flopping.

  47. er

    Houston is so bad defensively….how do you let a guy go 1vs4? And don’t even foul him when he gets passed you smh

  48. Tony Pena

    er:
    Houston is so bad defensively….how do you let a guy go 1vs4? And don’t even foul him when he gets passed you smh

    that was lightning fast.

  49. ruruland

    Tony Pena: that was lightning fast.

    Amazing play by Durant, but you have to try to take charge instead of trying to block shot when he has momentum like that.

  50. ruruland

    Durant could have had mid-range, wanted to go for win. Big mistake, nice close-out by Garcia.

  51. er

    ruruland: Amazing play by Durant, but you have to try to take charge instead of trying to block shot when he has momentum like that.

    Right, dude is 7 ft…..it ain’t that easy to block him at the summit. Either hack or go for the charge jeez

  52. yellowboy90

    Brian Cronin:
    Yeah, exactly. When an NBA player’s girlfriend has a kid when they’re not married, does Broussard comment on it to point out that he thinks what they’re doing is a sin?

    He did that in the statement I saw. The statement I saw I don’t really see anything wrong with what he said. As a Christian that’s what is taught and believed. That doesn’t give them the right to judge him or say he should be ostracized in anyway.

  53. marechal

    yellowboy90: He did that in the statement I saw. The statement I saw I don’t really see anything wrong with what he said. As a Christian that’s what is taught and believed. That doesn’t give them the right to judge him or say he should be ostracized in anyway.

    I don’t agree at all. You might as well say: “as a [insert religion here] I believe women should not be allowed to work. It’s my belief system and I shouldn’t be ostracized for it”. Religion should not give a pass to morally outrageous beliefs.

  54. Juany8

    marechal: I don’t agree at all. You might as well say: “as a [insert religion here] I believe women should not be allowed to work. It’s my belief system and I shouldn’t be ostracized for it”. Religion should not give a pass to morally outrageous beliefs.

    The real difference is that you shouldn’t impose your beliefs on others. He can think it’s sinful all he wants, the real question is why he doesn’t post this same bitchy diatribe when he finds out some player got divorced, or when he finds out a player is cheating on his spouse. If he only feels outraged when it’s a gay person who’s having sinful sex, and ignores that pro athletes are out having all kinds of sex with strangers, often with condoms, then he’s a bigot, not a preachy Christian.

    I have actually met a priest who was consistent in this. He stated that any gay sex will automatically be a sin, but he preaches about abstinence and divorce far more often. He was much more worried about couples moving in together before getting married than about the sexual orientation of the couple. Considering he can’t have sex at all, it’s not particularly hypocritical for him to tell others to do the same in the name of god.

    Again though, unless you are out protesting divorce, condoms, and frat parties, protesting against gay marriage means you’re homophobic, not deeply religious.

  55. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, those five points in a row Durant scored showed how unique of a player he is. Lots of players could hit the three and lots of players could throw down the 1 on 4 dunk (okay, likely less players could do the latter) but I can’t think of anyone who could do both. Maybe JR Smith on a good day? It wasn’t that he hit the three, it was how he hit the three with a miniscule amount of daylight. That’s a shooter’s three. A shot guys like Steph Curry, Reggie Miller, etc. make. Lebron James doesn’t make that three. And the dunk, obviously only a small group of players can dunk like that. So to combine the two? That’s what makes Durant Durant.

  56. Brian Cronin

    He did that in the statement I saw. The statement I saw I don’t really see anything wrong with what he said. As a Christian that’s what is taught and believed. That doesn’t give them the right to judge him or say he should be ostracized in anyway.

    He did that in the statement you saw because people called him on talking shit about gay people being sinners. He only did so when he gets called out on doing it publicly with gay people. Like apparently when he plays pick-up basketball, he lets his friends know he also doesn’t believe in premarital sex. Okay, I guess I believe him, but you’d never ever ever hear him make a public statement about it. Now a gay player comes out, THAT he has to make a public statement about it. It’s BS.

  57. stratomatic

    Juany8:

    The church pretty much tells people not to have sex unless its for the functional purpose, if these activists were serious about protecting the sanctity of marriage, they should be trying to get condoms banned just as much as gay marriage lol. A guy living with a longtime girlfriend is “living in unrepentant sin” just as much as any gay couple. The fact that people protest against this only when it’s a same sex couple is pure bigotism, it has nothing to do with Christianity.

    You are obviously not a Catholic.

    I went to confession about 5 years ago for the first time in several decades (long story).

    I have lived with my girlfriend for a long time and we have used birth control during our relationship. If you think I didn’t get read the riot act by the priest for engaging in pre marital sex and living with a woman you are wrong.

    You either believe in the doctrine or you do not.

    Broussard apparently does.

    As long as he is consistent in saying his faith does not approve of homosexuality, pre marital heterosexual sex, certain sex acts (even if performed by heterosexuals) etc… (the whole nine yards) there is no hate involved in his belief. He believes these things are sins in the eyes of God. Others are allowed to think he’s an idiot, wrong, backwards or whatever, but it is not hateful.

    If he was always specifically talking about homosexuals and homosexual behavior while acting like a wildman himself, then you’d have reason to think he was bigoted or hateful.

  58. stratomatic

    Juany8: If he only feels outraged when it’s a gay person who’s having sinful sex, and ignores that pro athletes are out having all kinds of sex with strangers, often with condoms, then he’s a bigot, not a preachy Christian.

    If you read his statement, he pretty much covered the full gamut of sexual behaviors and relationships the Christian faith (and he) opposes. He did not single out homosexuality.

    This is also not the first time I’ve heard him speak out on a moral issue. So he does talk about other things. Apparently, he’s a very religious person in addition to being a bad basketball analyst. lol

    To be quite honest, I think there is almost as much hate of people of faith as there is of homosexuality. One is just more acceptable.

  59. Brian Cronin

    I think it is simple. When Dwight Howard had his first, second, third, fourth and fifth kid with women who were not his wife, did Chris Broussard make a public statement about how Dwight Howard was a sinner?

    No, no he did not.

  60. thenamestsam

    stratomatic:

    As long as he is consistent in saying his faith does not approve of homosexuality, pre marital heterosexual sex, certain sex acts (even if performed by heterosexuals) etc… (the whole nine yards) there is no hate involved in his belief.He believes these things are sins in the eyes of God. Others are allowed to think he’s an idiot, wrong, backwards or whatever, but it is not hateful.

    If he was always specifically talking about homosexuals and homosexual behavior while acting like a wildman himself, then you’d have reason to think he was bigoted or hateful.

    I think the point is that those other things that he’s talking about are happening on an every day basis in the NBA and yet we never hear a peep about it. I haven’t heard Chris Broussard going on OTL, or on the radio, or writing columns calling out players doing those things for living in sin. But when John Amaechi came out Broussard wrote a column the next day calling him a sinner. And when Jason Collins comes out Broussard is right there making a hateful comment. And a google search reveals that those are apparently the only two times Broussard has ever mentioned his anti-premarital sex stance.

    If Broussard was defending those other views with the same passion he’s showing for his anti-homosexuality views then you might have a point. But he isn’t. In fact there isn’t any evidence that he holds those views at all outside of him using them as defense of himself as a non-homophobe. So far he’s 2/2 on making anti-homosexual statements about basketball players coming out and 0/infinity in making anti-premarital sex statements for straight basketball players. That doesn’t look like an equal opportunity zealot to me.

  61. Brian Cronin

    Egg-freaking-zactly.

    When Broussard has to tell us, “No, seriously, ask my friends, they’ll tell you I say premarital sex is a sin” then you know he’s full of it, because he has to say “ask my friends” to confirm such a view because such a view never appears in Broussard’s public statements.

    If Broussard was some guy who went on and on about how bad pre-marital sex was, then yeah, his current comments about Collins wouldn’t be quite so offensive.

  62. Juany8

    stratomatic: You are obviously not a Catholic.

    I went to confession about 5 years ago for the first time in several decades (long story).

    I have lived with my girlfriend for a long time and we have used birth control during our relationship. If you think I didn’t get read the riot act by the priest for engaging in pre marital sex and living with a woman you are wrong.

    You either believe in the doctrine or you do not.

    Broussard apparently does.

    As long as he is consistent in saying his faith does not approve of homosexuality, pre marital heterosexual sex, certain sex acts (even if performed by heterosexuals) etc… (the whole nine yards) there is no hate involved in his belief.He believes these things are sins in the eyes of God. Others are allowed to think he’s an idiot, wrong, backwards or whatever, but it is not hateful.

    If he was always specifically talking about homosexuals and homosexual behavior while acting like a wildman himself, then you’d have reason to think he was bigoted or hateful.

    Funny thing is I was at least raised catholic and go to church every Sunday with my mom. I do know what I’m talking about, and as the posters above me have said, it’s not his views that are a problem, it’s the fact that he only brings this up when talking about gay people. People who only protest when gays are involved are bigots disguising their intolerance as religious fervor. My example about the priest (who I happened to hear preaching in a church in front of over a 1000 people) is more ok, because he focuses on all the sins people commit, not on some people who are really not hurting anybody. When Broussard is on TV criticizing Lebron and Howard for having kids out of wedlock, and making a post about their sinful lifestyle the day their baby is born, he’ll start being consistent.

  63. stratomatic

    Brian Cronin:
    I think it is simple. When Dwight Howard had his first, second, third, fourth and fifth kid with women who were not his wife, did Chris Broussard make a public statement about how Dwight Howard was a sinner?

    No, no he did not.

    So what is the standard?

    He must comment on every single issue of morality concerning every professional athlete in every sport he covers in order to prove he’s religious and not a bigot?

    I think that’s sort of silly (more like preposterous) in addition to not being feasible unless he changes professions and becomes a full time minister.

    The Jason Collins story was big national news. So he commented on it. If out of wedlock children become a big national story, perhaps he’ll comment on Dwight. What you want to look for is the consistency of his comments and behavior. On that standard, I think there are no signs of bigotry. He’s a religious guy that thinks heterosexuals should get married before having sex that God frowns upon everything else, including homosexuality.

  64. Brian Cronin

    So what is the standard?

    He must comment on every single issue of morality concerning every professional athlete in every sport he covers in order to prove he’s religious and not a bigot?

    Again, as noted, he’s 2 for 2 in condemning gay athletes and 0 for 3,569 (low estimate, I am sure) in condemning straight athletes for having pre-marital sex.

    It doesn’t have to be the same percentages for both instances, of course. Let’s say….5% of the second category to go with his 100% of the first.

    Instead, it’s 0% to go with the 100%.

  65. stratomatic

    Juany8: Funny thing is I was at least raised catholic and go to church every Sunday with my mom. I do know what I’m talking about, and as the posters above me have said, it’s not his views that are a problem, it’s the fact that he only brings this up when talking about gay people. People who only protest when gays are involved are bigots disguising their intolerance as religious fervor. My example about the priest (who I happened to hear preaching in a church in front of over a 1000 people) is more ok, because he focuses on all the sins people commit, not on some people who are really not hurting anybody. When Broussard is on TV criticizing Lebron and Howard for having kids out of wedlock, and making a post about their sinful lifestyle the day their baby is born, he’ll start being consistent.

    Did you read the quote?

    He did not just bring up homosexuality. He brought up all the morality issues of relationships.

    Have you ever heard him comment on other issues of morality?

    I have. And they had NOTHING to do with homosexuality.

    The guy really is religious in a literal way.

    This was a national story. That’s why he chose to express his views on this topic on this day. On another day, maybe he’ll talk about out of wedlock births and poverty in the black community if it’s a national story. He’s not a minister. He’s a national sportscaster. He’s not going to preach on every issue.

    You guys are barking up the wrong tree.

    Yes, there are bigots out there. But just because you believe the literal word of your faith does not make you hateful or a bigot. Maybe it makes you lots of other things (according to those that are atheists, agnostics, non literal believers etc..), but being wrong does not mean you have hate in your heart.

  66. stratomatic

    Brian Cronin: Again, as noted, he’s 2 for 2 in condemning gay athletes and 0 for 3,569 (low estimate, I am sure) in condemning straight athletes for having pre-marital sex.

    It doesn’t have to be the same percentages for both instances, of course. Let’s say….5% of the second category to go with his 100% of the first.

    Instead, it’s 0% to go with the 100%.

    I’ve heard him talk about other issues of morality besides homosexuality on other occasions. If you don’t want to believe me, I can’t help that. You’ve apparently already made up your mind.

    I was shocked by it because at the time I had no idea he was religious. Shows how you can’t always tell. The guy is apparently a religious “believer”.

  67. flossy

    I don’t like Chris Broussard, don’t share his views, and think that his choice to publicly criticize only one of the many behaviors he claims to find sinful (despite there being exponentially more instances of straight premarital sex or out of wedlock children in the NBA) to be highly suspect, at best. Once Tim Hardaway proved that you can no longer just straight-up admit to hating gay people, “I don’t hate, God hates” became the default excuse.

    With that being said, I place the blame here on ESPN. It shouldn’t be Chris Broussard’s responsibility to sugarcoat his (admittedly retrograde and selectively enforced) beliefs. ESPN invited him to explore the “Christian angle” to the Collins coming out story knowing full well what he would say (basically, a less eloquent version of the column he wrote when John Amaechi came out), and knowing that it would become a story in and of itself. A petty move designed to claw some attention back from Sports Illustrated, IMO.

  68. flossy

    stratomatic: He’s not a minister. He’s a national sportscaster. He’s not going to preach on every issue.

    Why should he preach on ANY issue?! That’s my problem with this whole thing. Either he or ESPN thought that it would be a good idea to have Chris fuckin’ Broussard speak on behalf of Christians. Does Chris Broussard routinely comment on matters of religious doctrine vis a vis sports? No. (And nor should he, because who cares?). This was gay-baiting for ratings/pageviews.

  69. Juany8

    stratomatic: I’ve heard him talk about other issues of moralitybesides homosexuality on other occasions.If you don’t want to believe me, I can’t help that. You’ve apparently already made up your mind.

    I was shocked by it because at the time I had no idea he was religious. Shows how you can’t always tell. The guy is apparently a religious “believer”.

    Can you at least being up any examples of where he’s done this in the past? I really have never heard him express his religious views, and I go on ESPN a lot. Furthermore, there was a high profile divorce situation recently, unless you somehow never heard of kris humpries and Kim kardashian getting married for a few hours (give or take)

    That was a much bigger insult to the sanctity of marriage, did he even tweet out a simple message calling their behavior despicable? He went really out of his way to point out his views for this story, has he at least privately told Howard and Lebron they are unrepentant sinners? Kind of doubt it personally.

    The problem is not the religious views, as everyone here has said. Broussard doesn’t comment on other sins he witnesses on a daily basis out of pure convenience, so it’s quite telling when he inconveniences himself specifically when a gay athlete comes out. He could have just kept his mouth shut and gone on believing his religious views. Like he does every single other time he watches sinful behavior make national news.

  70. DCrockett17

    Brian Cronin:
    Yeah, as noted in the previous thread, the only possible downside of this story for me is if Collins does not, in fact, get signed next year. It sort of hurts the whole “Active NBA player coming out” story when the player is, you know, not actively in the NBA.

    I know that I’m just in a terribly cynical, bad place with sports journalism right now but the narrative around the story is REALLY pissing me off. The narrative (not his column) is navel gazing masquerading as introspection.

    To be clear, I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with Collins coming out–at all. I’m personally happy for him. It’s got to suck in an unimaginable way to live a lie so encompassing that your *twin* doesn’t even know.

    My issue is with SI & ESPN, who have inordinate influence over the direction that any national sports narrative takes. They have chosen to play up the “firsts” angle, making this a celebratory story rather than a reflective one.

    The truth is, we really only needed one “first player to come out” moment. We already had it with John Amechi. (I really liked Amechi going back to his Penn State days.) There’s simply no meaningful distinction between Collins’ so-called ‘active’ status and Amechi’s. Collins’ contract is up, and he is VERY unlikely to get a new one after playing < 500 minutes total. So, both he and Amechi came out after playing out what is likely their last deal.

    The point is that between Amechi, Robert Sarver, and now Collins (and let's not even get into the WNBA) American pro hoops is not *especially* homophobic. To understand why more players don't come out, we may actually have to look at ourselves–not just at the allegedly unforgiving locker room. At its best sports journalism helps us really look at ourselves critically. But by pretending we never had "first" gay players or owners, etc. it's encouraging…

  71. stratomatic

    flossy: Why should he preach on ANY issue?!That’s my problem with this whole thing.Either he or ESPN thought that it would be a good idea to have Chris fuckin’ Broussard speak on behalf of Christians.Does Chris Broussard routinely comment on matters of religious doctrine vis a vis sports?No.(And nor should he, because who cares?). This was gay-baiting for ratings/pageviews.

    I assume the reason he discussed it is the same reason it’s on the cover of SI and the sports section of most newspapers. It was national news. Most of these other things are not.

  72. yellowboy90

    marechal: I don’t agree at all. You might as well say: “as a [insert religion here] I believe women should not be allowed to work. It’s my belief system and I shouldn’t be ostracized for it”. Religion should not give a pass to morally outrageous beliefs.

    I was talking about Collins shouldn’t be ostracized by any Christian. You may not like what a person is doing but that is their choice. You love them the same as everyone else, as a Christian.

  73. Juany8

    flossy: Why should he preach on ANY issue?!That’s my problem with this whole thing.Either he or ESPN thought that it would be a good idea to have Chris fuckin’ Broussard speak on behalf of Christians.Does Chris Broussard routinely comment on matters of religious doctrine vis a vis sports?No.(And nor should he, because who cares?). This was gay-baiting for ratings/pageviews.

    Bingo, if he’s only gonna be preachy and judgemental (guess he never read the bible passage about casting the first stone) when a gay man comes out, that’s a pretty big red flag. I’m open to seeing clear cut examples of him promoting his religious views in other situations, but we have 2 very blatant, written pieces on the subject of homosexuality.

    Meanwhile, the Catholic Church is actually far more worried about obamacare forcing them to pay for contraceptives they believe are a sin. Has Broussard called Obama an unrepentant sinner for forcing pious Christians to purchase birth control? Even the goddam Kobe “rape” or the Big Ben (of the steelers, I’m not spelling his last name lol) harassment? The paterno scandal? This is the Internet, how hard can it be to find?

  74. Brian Cronin

    I’ve heard him talk about other issues of morality besides homosexuality on other occasions. If you don’t want to believe me, I can’t help that. You’ve apparently already made up your mind.

    I was shocked by it because at the time I had no idea he was religious. Shows how you can’t always tell. The guy is apparently a religious “believer”.

    I believe you that he’s spoken about his faith in the past, but never in public statements like this, even with other major national news stories about “morality,” like all the various NBA divorce stories. Kris Humphries’ divorce was one of the biggest stories of the year and Broussard never made a public statement about how Humphries was a sinner. He even seemed to acknowledge as much in his statement where he noted something along the lines of “if you know me, you know I am anti premarital sex.” Which I’m sure is true. If you’re deeply familiar with him, you know this about him. But his only public statements about morality are about these two instances of gay players coming out.

  75. yellowboy90

    Juany8: Can you at least being up any examples of where he’s done this in the past? I really have never heard him express his religious views, and I go on ESPN a lot. Furthermore, there was a high profile divorce situation recently, unless you somehow never heard of kris humpries and Kim kardashian getting married for a few hours (give or take)

    That was a much bigger insult to the sanctity of marriage, did he even tweet out a simple message calling their behavior despicable? He went really out of his way to point out his views for this story, has he at least privately told Howard and Lebron they are unrepentant sinners? Kind of doubt it personally.

    The problem is not the religious views, as everyone here has said. Broussard doesn’t comment on other sins he witnesses on a daily basis out of pure convenience, so it’s quite telling when he inconveniences himself specifically when a gay athlete comes out. He could have just kept his mouth shut and gone on believing his religious views. Like he does every single other time he watches sinful behavior make national news.

    I’ve heard him, S.A.S., and skip all bring up their views about religion on first take on more than one occasion. I can’t remember what the topic was though.

  76. Juany8

    Brian Cronin: I believe you that he’s spoken about his faith in the past, but never in public statements like this, even with other major national news stories about “morality,” like all the various NBA divorce stories. Kris Humphries’ divorce was one of the biggest stories of the year and Broussard never made a public statement about how Humphries was a sinner.

    When potential rape cases escape your notice but a gay player coming out doesn’t, you can’t pretend you’re doing this for religious reasons. Forget all of these things, if Broussard did not write something lambasting penn State after the scandal, the whole “it’s a big national story!” Angle falls apart.

  77. stratomatic

    Juany8: Can you at least being up any examples of where he’s done this in the past?

    The problem is not the religious views, as everyone here has said. Broussard doesn’t comment on other sins he witnesses on a daily basis out of pure convenience, so it’s quite telling when he inconveniences himself specifically when a gay athlete comes out. He could have just kept his mouth shut and gone on believing his religious views. Like he does every single other time he watches sinful behavior make national news.

    1. I wish I could remember all the specifics, but I didn’t think I would need to reference it. I saw one fairly recently (a few weeks ago). I think I saw a tweet that lead me to a slightly longer commentary where he brought up a religious references as a guiding insight.

    2. I think he commented specifically on this because it’s national news, but you’d have to ask him. I know I haven’t commented much on moral issues in my life (I have strong feelings on out of wedlock children for example), but I’m talking about this one.

    I think we’ve beaten this one to death. Only he knows what’s in his heart. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt and wanted to note there is anti religious bias out there too. No all religious people hate gays even if they believe the literal word.

  78. flossy

    stratomatic: I assume the reason he discussed it is the same reason it’s on the cover of SI and the sports section of most newspapers. It was national news. Most of these other things are not.

    Since other people have already given plenty of examples, you don’t even have to use your imagination to think of other national sports-news stories that ESPN/Chris Broussard could have used as a pretext for preaching, but didn’t.

    Maybe Chris Broussard was just burning up inside when noted sex-tape star Kim Kardashian entered into a short-lived marriage/publicity stunt with an NBA player, presumably after having some good old premarital sex with him to boot. Strangely, either Chris Broussard didn’t want to go on TV and thump the bible back then, or ESPN just didn’t think to ask. I wonder why? Can you think of any reason?

  79. Juany8

    yellowboy90: I’ve heard him, S.A.S., and skip all bring up their views about religion on first take on more than one occasion. I can’tremember what the topic was though.

    Oh well that makes sense, I value my sanity too much to watch first take.

  80. Nick C.

    Do you really think Kris Humphries had pre or post marital sex with “she who became famous by leaking a sex tape”?

    Brian Cronin: I believe you that he’s spoken about his faith in the past, but never in public statements like this, even with other major national news stories about “morality,” like all the various NBA divorce stories. Kris Humphries’ divorce was one of the biggest stories of the year and Broussard never made a public statement about how Humphries was a sinner. He even seemed to acknowledge as much in his statement where he noted something along the lines of “if you know me, you know I am anti premarital sex.” Which I’m sure is true. If you’re deeply familiar with him, you know this about him. But his only public statements about morality are about these two instances of gay players coming out.

  81. stratomatic

    Juany8: When potential rape cases escape your notice but a gay player coming out doesn’t, you can’t pretend you’re doing this for religious reasons. Forget all of these things, if Broussard did not write something lambasting penn State after the scandal, the whole “it’s a big national story!” Angle falls apart.

    Do you know for a fact he never spoke about that case?

    I mean, I don’t listen to the guy 24 hours a day or read every article he writes. So I don’t know. I just have heard him reference religion as a guiding influence in his life. If he never commented on Penn State, I’d be pretty surprised.

  82. Juany8

    stratomatic: 1. I wish I could remember all the specifics, but I didn’t think I would need to reference it.I saw one fairly recently (a few weeks ago). I think I saw a tweet that lead me to a slightly longer commentary where he brought up a religious references as a guiding insight.

    2. I think he commented specifically on this because it’s national news, but you’d have to ask him.I know I haven’t commented much on moral issues in my life (I have strong feelings on out of wedlock children for example), but I’m talking about this one.

    I think we’ve beaten this one to death. Only he knows what’s in his heart.I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt and wanted to note there is anti religious bias out there too.No all religious people hate gays even if they believe the literal word.

    Actually I do fully agree with you about religious intolerance somehow being ok but not sexual or racial intolerance. I didn’t give him the benefit of the doubt because I’ve seen too many people speak up on gay issues due to religious reasons while ignoring the true threats to morality and decency in this country. Religious beliefs do not excuse intolerant behavior. And of course, the intolerance of a few religious people does not mean that all religious people are intolerant. Unless you think all Muslims are terrorists.

  83. flossy

    stratomatic: Do you know for a fact he never spoke about that case?

    Um, do you know for a fact that he did? If what you claim is true, and Chris Broussard regularly weighs in on whether or the major players in national news stories qualify as true Christians, it shouldn’t be that hard to find. You don’t have to listen to Chris Broussard 24 hours a day to use google. Seems like the burden of proof is on whoever claims that this instance isn’t out of the ordinary, so… can you give any other examples of him preaching about the sinfulness of any other public figure?

  84. flossy

    Nick C.:
    Do you really think Kris Humphries had pre or post marital sex with “she who became famous by leaking a sex tape”?

    If not, he should ask for his money back

  85. Juany8

    stratomatic: Do you know for a fact he never spoke about that case?

    I mean, I don’t listen to the guy 24 hours a day or read every article he writes. So I don’t know.I just have heard him reference religion as a guiding influence in his life.If he never commented on Penn State, I’d be pretty surprised.

    That’s the thing though, this wasn’t a passing reference, this was a full blown statement. Shouldn’t be hard to type Chris Broussard and penn state into google to see if anything on that level comes up. There were PLENTY of columns and articles condemning penn state back then. Same with a the other events we’ve referenced. And we can pull up 2 instances of Broussard doing this, very clearly and easy to find and google.

    That penn state search has turned up nothing for me unfortunately, searching for the Ameichi story turned up a ton of results. Guess he didnt feel the need to do an interview to explain why Sandusky was a sinner

  86. stratomatic

    flossy: Um, do you know for a fact that he did?If what you claim is true, and Chris Broussard regularly weighs in on whether or the major players in national news stories qualify as true Christians, it shouldn’t be that hard to find.You don’t have to listen to Chris Broussard 24 hours a day to use google.Seems like the burden of proof is on whoever claims that this instance isn’t out of the ordinary, so… can you give any other examples of him preaching about the sinfulness of any other public figure?

    I never said he regularly weighs in.

    I actually said it would be preposterous to hold him to that standard because he’s sport commentator not a priest or minister. If he does occasionally comment (like just about every other member of basketball media did yesterday) it’s going to be in a case that is part of the national news.

    I also said I have heard him speak of religion being a guiding part of his belief system and comment on another issue. So I do believe religion is the driving force of his opinion and not hate.

    This is not directed at you. It’s general and will be my last comment on this.

    While we are trying to make it easier for gays to come out the closet, the goal should not be to drive religious Christians into a different one just because we disagree with their views. Hate, bias, intolerance etc… is bad idea no matter which side is feeling it. Being religious does not equal intolerance or hate.

  87. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    flossy: If not, he should ask for his money back

    Oh man this gave me a huge gut laugh. That was truly exceptional.

  88. Donnie Walsh

    Juany8:

    That penn state search has turned up nothing for me unfortunately, searching for the Ameichi story turned up a ton of results. Guess he didnt feel the need to do an interview to explain why Sandusky was a sinner

    Broussard did tweet this several years ago: “#PennState is going to burn in hell because it turned John Amechi gay.”

  89. Juany8

    Donnie Walsh: Broussard did tweet this several years ago: “#PennState is going to burn in hell because it turned John Amechi gay.”

    Did he really? I couldn’t find it but that kind of settles the issue if true.

  90. flossy

    stratomatic:

    While we are trying to make it easier for gays to come out the closet, the goal should not be to drive religious Christians into a different one just because we disagree with their views.Hate, bias, intolerance etc… is bad idea no matter which side is feeling it.Being religious does not equal intolerance or hate.

    Intolerance of bigoted behavior is not the same thing as intolerance of sexual orientation, race, gender, etc.

    Nobody is trying to force Christians into the closet, and frankly, the comparison is offensive. This is a country where at least 3 out of every 4 people are Christian in addition to about 99% of elected officials of our purportedly secular government, a good number of whom see fit to govern based on their interpretation of the Bible. Gays, on the other hand, are a small minority of the population, a group that has been deeply stigmatized for decades and still, to this day, lacks full and equal rights under the law.

    What is not being tolerated here is Chris Broussard and those like him hiding behind a holy book in order to perpetuate a stigma against a minority group. I don’t doubt the sincerity of his beliefs, nor would I suggest he isn’t entitled to think whatever he wants. But going on television to say “X group of people are an affront to God” is offensive. Period. And this coming from someone who is not a full-time moral crusader but rather a basketball analyst who seems only to pound the bible when gay men have the audacity to exist in public, it doesn’t pass the smell test. Hell, where was Mr. Holy Roller when Brittney Griner came out?

    The fact that people can no longer use Christianity as a pretext for saying nasty things about gay people in public without provoking a backlash is not hate, bias or intolerance. It’s progress.

  91. johnno

    Juany8: The real difference is that you shouldn’t impose your beliefs on others.

    How in the world is Broussard “imposing his beliefs on others?” He’s entitled to state his opinion, regardless of whether you or I think that it’s ridiculous. Anyone who doesn’t like what he has to say is entitled to criticize him, boycott ESPN, or whatever else they want to do, as long as they don’t break the law. I am sure that Broussard understood that there were a lot of people who would be outraged by what he had to say, but he chose to say it anyway because he apparently believes very strongly. Was it a dumb thing to say? Yeah, I think so, but I also think that he has every right in the world to say it.

  92. johnno

    flossy: Intolerance of bigoted behavior is not the same thing as intolerance of sexual orientation, race, gender, etc.

    How is stating one’s religious beliefs “bigoted behavior?” He did not say that Collins should be banned from the NBA, that Collins should be ostracized, that he should not be allowed to live his life as he sees fit or that any Christian should not be friends with him. To the contrary, he said that he is friends with LZ Granderson even though his religion teaches him that Granderson is living in sin.

  93. Douglas

    I don’t have much to add, but I’d like to commend everyone in the thread for having one of most civil and intelligent discussions of religion and the public sphere I’ve ever read on the internets.

    I would also like to add that, as a Christian, I think that if Chris Broussard is so interested in speaking TRUTH TO POWER in the name of Jesus Christ, he had better started giving equal air time to speaking out divorce, which is one topic that Jesus was explicitly clear in the Gospels that he hated — going so far as to call divorce for any reason but sexual immorality “adultery.” As it says in Matthew 19, his views were so harsh even his disciples were all “dude, if that’s what you’re saying we might as well not get married ever.”

    If Broussard wants to be consistent in expressing his beliefs, he should find the grapefruits to start upsetting a lot of more people.

  94. johnno

    Douglas: If Broussard wants to be consistent in expressing his beliefs, he should find the grapefruits to start upsetting a lot of more people.

    I seriously don’t think that anyone would care in the slightest if Broussard started preaching that divorce is a sin, any more than anyone cares in the slightest that he thinks that pre-marital sex is a sin…

  95. Juany8

    johnno: How is stating one’s religious beliefs “bigoted behavior?”He did not say that Collins should be banned from the NBA, that Collins should be ostracized, that he should not be allowed to live his life as he sees fit or that any Christian should not be friends with him. To the contrary, he said that he is friends with LZ Granderson even though his religion teaches him that Granderson is living in sin.

    It becomes bigoted when you only state your religious beliefs when gays are involved. Especially when you’re going against your religious belief of treating others as you would like to be treated. How is it that Jesus was capable of treating prostitutes and lepers (back then it was though leprosy was punishment from god) with respect and love, but Broussard thinks it’s ok for him to condemn all gay people?

    I almost feel like you and stratomatoc are reflexively assuming everyone here is anti Christian because they are bashing Broussard. I feel like most people are ok with Christians who follow their own beliefs and don’t go around judging other people and telling them they’re going to hell. Nobody here has a problem with someone following the core Christian belief that sex is only for making babies under wedlock. Otherwise they indeed would be just as bigoted.

  96. Juany8

    johnno: I seriously don’t think that anyone would care in the slightest if Broussard started preaching that divorce is a sin, any more than anyone cares in the slightest that he thinks that pre-marital sex is a sin…

    I think a lot of divorced people would notice if he called them unrepentant sinners, especially if he made a statement about it every time a major divorce story hit the news. I must have missed the story where he said a divorced person could never be a Christian. Plus did you miss the (alleged) tweet above? That’s not a simple statement of religious beliefs…

  97. johnno

    Juany8: I think a lot of divorced people would notice if he called them unrepentant sinners,

    Would people notice if he called divorced people unrepentant sinners? Yeah, I guess so. Would anyone give a hoot? Not anyone I know. And he did say that sex out of wedlock makes you a sinner. Do I or any other people who have had sex out of wedlock is a sin. Does anyone I know care that he thinks we are sinners because of that? I can’t imagine that anyone gives a hoot about that either. And, unless you are talking about some tweets other than the one that someone linked to above, yes I have seen his comments. He says that he is tolerant of gay people even though he thinks that their lifestyle is sinful and he hopes that they will be tolerant of his opinion and not call him a bigot. I am still trying to understand why that makes him a bigot. Would you feel that he was less bigoted if he tweeted about divorced people too?

  98. flossy

    johnno: How is stating one’s religious beliefs “bigoted behavior?” He did not say that Collins should be banned from the NBA, that Collins should be ostracized, that he should not be allowed to live his life as he sees fit or that any Christian should not be friends with him. To the contrary, he said that he is friends with LZ Granderson even though his religion teaches him that Granderson is living in sin.

    Some of my best friends are [blank] is the classic bullshit excuse for bigoted behavior or speech. And yes, going on TV and saying that an entire class of people are an affront to God is bigoted, sorry. Our society is one where gay people are still systematically discriminated against. In most states, gay people can’t legally marry. In many states, you can be fired from your job and simetimes even evicted from your rental apartment simply for being gay. Until 10 years ago gay sex could actually be punished by law, and until more recently gays couldn’t even legally serve in the armed forces without going into the closet.

    Why do you think that is? It’s because, in large part, we live in a society where many people still cherry-pick from the Bible in order to stigmatize gay people. Because many people still think Christianity is a pretense to discriminate. Because some people think nothing of going on TV to issue a blanket condemnation–to hell, mind you, which is what Broussard is implying–of ALL gay people.

    Chris Broussard doesn’t get a gold star because he didn’t call for Jason Collins to be expelled from the NBA or socially ostracized. Thankfully, that doesn’t even meet the minimum threshold for socially acceptable behavior any more. But the soft bigotry of going on TV and saying “I have gay friends… but they’re going to hell” is what slowing the march toward a better and more equal society.

  99. flossy

    johnno: Would people notice if he called divorced people unrepentant sinners? Yeah, I guess so. Would anyone give a hoot? Not anyone I know. And he did say that sex out of wedlock makes you a sinner. Do I or any other people who have had sex out of wedlock is a sin. Does anyone I know care that he thinks we are sinners because of that? I can’t imagine that anyone gives a hoot about that either.

    Are people who get divorces or have out of wedlock children discriminated against to even a fraction of the extent that gay people are?!

    “Not giving a hoot” is a luxury that comes with societal privilege. Gay people are a tiny minority with a 2nd class citizenship–we don’t have the luxury of not caring.

  100. Juany8

    johnno: Would people notice if he called divorced people unrepentant sinners?Yeah, I guess so.Would anyone give a hoot?Not anyone I know.And he did say that sex out of wedlock makes you a sinner.Do I or any other people who have had sex out of wedlock is a sin.Does anyone I know care that he thinks we are sinners because of that?I can’t imagine that anyone gives a hoot about that either.And, unless you are talking about some tweets other than the one that someone linked to above, yes I have seen his comments.He says that he is tolerant of gay people even though he thinks that their lifestyle is sinful and he hopes that they will be tolerant of his opinion and not call him a bigot.I am still trying to understand why that makes him a bigot.Would you feel that he was less bigoted if he tweeted about divorced people too?

    This

    Donnie Walsh: Broussard did tweet this several years ago: “#PennState is going to burn in hell because it turned John Amechi gay.”

    An entire school “turned” a man gay? I don’t remember when I was turned heterosexual, but I would certainly not commend the people responsible to hell for making me who I am ;)

    Seriously though, judgmental Christians will be the first to burn, gay people who are quietly trying to live good lives aren’t high on most people’s list of concerns.

  101. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    johnno: Would people notice if he called divorced people unrepentant sinners?Yeah, I guess so.Would anyone give a hoot?Not anyone I know.And he did say that sex out of wedlock makes you a sinner.Do I or any other people who have had sex out of wedlock is a sin.Does anyone I know care that he thinks we are sinners because of that?I can’t imagine that anyone gives a hoot about that either.And, unless you are talking about some tweets other than the one that someone linked to above, yes I have seen his comments.He says that he is tolerant of gay people even though he thinks that their lifestyle is sinful and he hopes that they will be tolerant of his opinion and not call him a bigot.I am still trying to understand why that makes him a bigot.Would you feel that he was less bigoted if he tweeted about divorced people too?

    He’s a bigot because he says, “Even though I think the way you live is immoral, I respect your right to do it.” You know why he has to respect their right to do it? Because it would be a crime otherwise.

    Not all opinions are created equally. If I came on this board and said that whites and blacks having sex is immoral, I’d be a bigot. Even if I said, “I know they’re allowed to do it, and I accept that,” I’d still be a bigot. When you put hateful and judgmental rhetoric into the world, you are a bigot. It doesn’t matter if Broussard were actually part of a human wall to prevent women from voting or blacks from entering a school or if he simply expresses in private that he thinks what he thinks; that would only determine the level of his bigotry.

    Could it have been worse? Sure. And in some sense, it’s good that Broussard said it, because it galvanizes support and makes tangible the verbal bigotry that homosexuals can face in daily life. But he’s still a bigot.

  102. flossy

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: He’s a bigot because he says, “Even though I think the way you live is immoral, I respect your right to do it.” You know why he has to respect their right to do it? Because it would be a crime otherwise.

    Not all opinions are created equally. If I came on this board and said that whites and blacks having sex is immoral, I’d be a bigot. Even if I said, “I know they’re allowed to do it, and I accept that,” I’d still be a bigot. When you put hateful and judgmental rhetoric into the world, you are a bigot. It doesn’t matter if Broussard were actually part of a human wall to prevent women from voting or blacks from entering a school or if he simply expresses in private that he thinks what he thinks; that would only determine the level of his bigotry.

    Could it have been worse? Sure. And in some sense, it’s good that Broussard said it, because it galvanizes support and makes tangible the verbal bigotry that homosexuals can face in daily life. But he’s still a bigot.

    I was going to say something like this, but my comment is in moderation limbo. So, well said.

  103. Brian Cronin

    Juan, I’m 99.9999999% sure Donnie was joking about the Penn State tweet, so I don’t recommend using that one to back up any position.

  104. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, it is sort of like Will Ferrell’s character in that race car driver movie. “You can’t excuse whatever you say just by adding ‘no offense’ to the beginning of it.” Similarly, you can’t just throw in “This is my religious belief” and expect that to just excuse your bigoted views. I’m just happy I grew up in a liberal New York Catholic Church, so I didn’t have to deal with all of the anti-gay stuff growing up. Even through high school the Catholic school I went to was pretty good about not being anti-gay (although sadly it seems that the school got a lot more conservative after I graduated, from what other students who went there after have told me).

  105. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Brian Cronin:
    Yeah, it is sort of like Will Ferrell’s character in that race car driver movie. “You can’t excuse whatever you say just by adding ‘no offense’ to the beginning of it.” Similarly, you can’t just throw in “This is my religious belief” and expect that to just excuse your bigoted views. I’m just happy I grew up in a liberal New York Catholic Church, so I didn’t have to deal with all of the anti-gay stuff growing up. Even through high school the Catholic school I went to was pretty good about not being anti-gay (although sadly it seems that the school got a lot more conservative after I graduated, from what other students who went there after have told me).

    I think my Episocopal upbringing was quite liberal, but even I got a healthy dose of “God is watching you masturbate and swear” shame. I’m sure Broussard comes from a much more restrictive theology.

    Still, it’s like: grow up dude! Grow up! Your brain! Grow up!

  106. Z-man

    As an educator at one of the most diverse public schools in the world (not kidding!) I have very strong feelings about anyone who uses religion as a justification for intolerance. What needs to happen here is activism on the part of all who make Broussard what he is…players, coaches, executives, etc. who provide him with inside info; advertisers who ESPN depend upon, and all who are rightfully offended by his using his role as a NBA insider to promote intolerance. In fact, I would love for sports fans to put financial pressure on ESPN to make Broussard expendable, e.g. by cancelling their insider accounts.

    The only thing that protects targets of intolerance from persecution is a legal/political civil rights framework that deprives potential persecutors of power. We should always ask: what would happen if those who feel the same way as Chris Broussard were to acquire the power to make and enforce policy? Oh, I guess history has already given us the answer to that a million times over. Persecution effected in God’s name is the greatest scourge humanity has ever brought upon itself.

  107. johnno

    Z-man: In fact, I would love for sports fans to put financial pressure on ESPN to make Broussard expendable, e.g. by cancelling their insider accounts.

    I agree wholeheartedly that this would be an appropriate response for someone offended by his statements.
    Juany8: I almost feel like you and stratomatoc are reflexively assuming everyone here is anti Christian because they are bashing Broussard.
    Your assumption is incorrect. I don’t think that people who are objecting to Brioussard’s comments are anti-Christian.

    flossy:
    Are people who get divorces or have out of wedlock children discriminated against to even a fraction of the extent that gay people are?!
    “Not giving a hoot” is a luxury that comes with societal privilege. Gay people are a tiny minority with a 2nd class citizenship–we don’t have the luxury of not caring.

    You are taking my comments very much out of context. My comment about divorce was in response to someone else’s comment that divorced people would be offended if Broussard said that they were sinners. I suppose that, if I cared about Broussard’s opinion I might be offended, but my point was that no divorced person that I know could care less about Broussard’s opinion. I can understand why someone who is gay would be extremely offended by his comments, much the same as I can understand why a gay person would be offended by the Catholic Church’s position on homosexuality. I think that it was dumb of Broussard to say what he said, but I don’t think that it makes him a bigot. Having said that, I can understand why others think that he is a bigot.

  108. Juany8

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: He’s a bigot because he says, “Even though I think the way you live is immoral, I respect your right to do it.” You know why he has to respect their right to do it? Because it would be a crime otherwise.

    Not all opinions are created equally. If I came on this board and said that whites and blacks having sex is immoral, I’d be a bigot. Even if I said, “I know they’re allowed to do it, and I accept that,” I’d still be a bigot. When you put hateful and judgmental rhetoric into the world, you are a bigot. It doesn’t matter if Broussard were actually part of a human wall to prevent women from voting or blacks from entering a school or if he simply expresses in private that he thinks what he thinks; that would only determine the level of his bigotry.

    Could it have been worse? Sure. And in some sense, it’s good that Broussard said it, because it galvanizes support and makes tangible the verbal bigotry that homosexuals can face in daily life. But he’s still a bigot.

    We don’t see eye to eye often but this is a fantastic post, well said sir.

  109. johnno

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Not all opinions are created equally. If I came on this board and said that whites and blacks having sex is immoral, I’d be a bigot. Even if I said, “I know they’re allowed to do it, and I accept that,” I’d still be a bigot.

    It’s a little ironic that you use this example in response to one of my posts because I am white and my wife is black. To be perfectly honest, if you (or a Broussard or anyone else whom I don’t know) made such a comment, I wouldn’t automatically conclude that you are a bigot. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and, when they make ridiculous statements like that, I assume that their opinion is based on ignorance or lack of exposure, rather than on hatred or bigotry. Maybe I am more forgiving than most because there have been people whom I know to be very good people and who I really care about who have made comments about her and us that are insensitive to say the least. We’ve kind of learned to”turn the other cheek” and, over time, our racial difference has become a complete non-issue. Our kids notice race (like my son will ask, “Why does Chris Mullin sound like he’s black? Why does James Harden sound like he’s white?) but they don’t care about race.

  110. flossy

    Douglas: I don’t have much to add, but I’d like to commend everyone in the thread for having one of most civil and intelligent discussions of religion and the public sphere I’ve ever read on the internets.

    You may now return to calling each other stupid assholes for basketball reasons!

    But seriously, I’m almost glad it wasn’t like, Russell Westbrook or Brook Lopez. At least nobody gives a crap about Jason Collins’s career and we can all just discuss the matter without bringing basketball agendas into things.

  111. Juany8

    flossy: You may now return to calling each other stupid assholes for basketball reasons!

    But seriously, I’m almost glad it wasn’t like, Russell Westbrook or Brook Lopez.At least nobody gives a crap about Jason Collins’s career and we can all just discuss the matter without bringing basketball agendas into things.

    Well now we have someone being ridiculous on the other side, Jason Whitlock just wrote an article where his last paragraph was:

    “I fully expect — and quite frankly I demand — David Stern to use his power to ensure that Jason Collins has a job in the NBA for 82 games next season. This is a chance for basketball to be as important as baseball in 1947.”

    Maybe it’s just me, but I’m pretty sure forcing a team to pick up a player who’s clearly on his last legs (to put it nicely) would do nobody favors. I can’t imagine Jason Collins would want any part of that attention.

  112. maxwell_3g

    this was a really good thread to read and I commend my fellow knickerbloggers for hashing this out this well. I am a Christian in my own way but I question certain things that I have been taught. i have never felt the calling to speak out about gay issues, but it has always struck me how Christians (and leaders in the Church) have created a hierarchy of sin, despite the fact that the Bible does not support this at all. To focus on homosexuality as a more serious sin is hypocritical and not faithful to the Bible IMO. whether Broussard has done this or whether this just happened to be newsworthy (as opposed to Dwight Howard knocking up a Magic dancer) is for each individual to decide. But if Brousard is being harder on gays than other “sinners” (read, all of us), then he won’t be the first, nor will he be the last)

  113. maxwell_3g

    clearly the best “coming out of the closet” announcement would be Melo, coming out, with Lala in the stands, after dropping 52 on the Heat in a 104-102 Game 7 victory. I think we could all get behind that, Broussard be damned

  114. flossy

    maxwell_3g:
    clearly the best “coming out of the closet” announcement would be Melo, coming out, with Lala in the stands, after dropping 52 on the Heat in a 104-102 Game 7 victory.I think we could all get behind that, Broussard be damned

    Melo could probably have any man in NYC if he actually did that in a game 7 against the Heat

  115. ruruland

    I’m utterly shocked Jowles, our enlightened leader, hasn’t made a Ruru/Melo cockgobbler quip at the end of this thread.

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