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Thursday, July 31, 2014

Jamal Crawford Named Sixth Man

Several outlets are reporting that former Knick Jamal Crawford has been named Sixth Man of the Year by a pretty healthy margin.

The holes in Jamal’s game are well-chronicled at Knickerblogger.net. Few Knicks could take fans on such an emotionally exhausting journey, from spittle-flying rage to sheer unadulterated “how did he hit that?” delight–all in one quarter–like Jamal. When he’s right, that bony, knock-kneed kid with the mild overbite has a game that is absolute poetry. When he’s not right, he’s often the last to know unfortunately. Even still, few Knicks were more likable during the dark ages.

So, congrats Jamal.

77 comments on “Jamal Crawford Named Sixth Man

  1. BigBlueAL

    I remember when Mase won it in the 94-95 season and Starks in the 96-97 season for the Knicks. Aaah the good ol’ days.

    Anyway congrats to JC, I will always have a soft spot for him in my heart…..

  2. Owen

    Yeah, congrats Jamal, why you put up a 57.3% ts% in Atlanta and not in New York is a apbrmetrician’s puzzle, but I am glad he made it happen somewhere…

  3. ess-dog

    How many times have I said “nonononononoYESholycrap!” when Jamal used to throw up wild shots while double teamed?

  4. KnickfaninNJ

    Owen,

    I don’t think it’s him being suddenly so much better, just him being in a better situation. He know has better players around him that the defense may be focusing on, and he may be facing the other teams bench more often than he used to, since he now comes off the bench also.

  5. supernova

    KnickfaninNJ,

    I agree. Better situation (coming off the bench), surrounded by better players, turned Crawford’s play around. In addition, maybe also lower expectations might have helped take some burden off him mentally, which ultimately helped his game.

  6. Owen

    KnicksFaninNJ –

    Any time a player makes a move to a better team people predict that his efficiency will increase due to playing alongside better teammates. And vice versa for players moving to worse teams. It very rarely happens though. Generally, there is almost no change in efficiency. However, Jamal definitely proved to be an exception to the rule in Atlanta this year. It’s interesting, his assist rate fell pretty drastically and his turnover rate declined, which suggests that they used him in more or a spot up role. However his usage was above his career average. Interesting puzzle…

    Crawford finally achieved what we wanted him to, albeit for another team. However, I have to think there were a lot of players more deserving of the Sixth Man Award, unless it’s simply an award for best bench scorer…

  7. Rashidi

    Crawford was doing this in NY before they traded him though.

    2008: .528 TS%
    2009: .571 TS%
    2010: .573 TS%

    The main reason is he improved his 3pt stroke.

    His also turnover rate dropped because he wasn’t the primary ball handler as he frequently was in NY. Playing with Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby will do that.

  8. d-mar

    I’m happy for Jamal, he was always a likable guy and gave us some exciting moments at MSG, even though they were mostly in losing efforts.

    Taking a pulse of the FA market as we hurtle towards 7/1/10, what happens in the following scenario:

    LeBron, Johnson and Stoudemire stay put
    Bosh joins Wade in Miami

    It’s not that far fetched, unfortunately, so what would the Knicks do? Sign Lee and some other lesser FA’s? Or keep most of their cap space and try to make a bigger splash in 2011? Thought it was worth discussing as we watch other teams compete in the playoffs.

  9. massive

    d mar,

    Donnie Walsh has made mentions in the past that another benefit of having all of this cap space is that we can make a lop-sided trade. We end up re-signing David Lee (not a bad thing), but we can also do something like Eddy Curry & Bill Walker/Will Chandler to Philly for Iggy, Lou Williams, and a conditional 1st pick next season. Philly would need to be drugged to do this strongly, but you get the point. Eddy Curry’s expiring becomes very vital to our off-season success if this happens. Also, the New York media is going to chew the organization alive.

    But, I feel that Walsh & D’Antoni have some kind of inside knowledge to have taken such drastic measures. Like maybe D-Wade thinks he can revitalize the Knicks legacy under D’Antoni and help LeBron make Cleveland relevant. I mean lets face it, New York probably had somewhere around the same attendance as Miami this year (I’ve never seen the Garden empty), maybe even better. Also, New York probably has better young players than Miami, and can offer the same deal as Miami when it comes to 2 max guys. Chandler, Gallo, Douglas, and Walker look better than Beasley, Chalmers, James Jones and whoever else they have. So when you really look at it, Miami only has a draft pick and weather (during the winter) over New York. And I bet NY’s playoff atmosphere next year is 10x better than Miami’s post-2006. I’m probably saying all of this because I can’t stand the Heat. In fact, I just saw a good number of empty seats at this years MIA vs. Boston Game 3 playoff game. But hey, he said Miami is where his heart is. But Wade and Bosh are probably the only two big name FAs on the market that NY can honestly offer a better deal than their current teams (Cleveland, Utah, Phoenix, and Memphis all are pretty solid teams).

  10. KnickfaninNJ

    Owen,

    I have a suggestion why it might be that most players don’t improve their efficiency when the change teams but Jamal did. Maybe most players change teams but get asked to the same thing on their new team that they did on their old one. This seems likely to me. If you trade for a defensive specialist you are likely to use him as a defensive specialist. Then the player is doing the same thing he was and his efficiency is the same. But in Crawford’s case, maybe the coaches are asking him to do something different in Atlanta than he was asked to do in NY. They don’t need him to do all he did in NY so he can just do what he does best. Another case along these lines might be Nate Robinson. In Boston he seems to be expected to be a point guard, not a scoring guard off the bench and I don’t think he understands the system yet. And he seems much less productive than he was in NY. (which is really a shame) This might also be the case where the new team is asking Nate to do something different.

  11. jon abbey

    there’s the Jamal we knew and loved (?), 4-18 in his team’s biggest game of the year.

  12. Rashidi

    Nate Robinson isn’t asked to be a point guard in Boston.

    He’s asked to be Eddie House. He’s attempting 8 threes per 36 minutes (making 3 of them) which is even more than House ever did. It just so happens that he’s a much better PG than House.

    The difference is however, that Rivers doesn’t want to use Nate next to Rondo as he did House. Whether there’s any real difference between the 5’9″ Nate and the 6’1″ House on defense is anyone’s guess.

  13. Rashidi

    Additionally on Crawford…

    Why hasn’t anyone mentioned that he’s now a sixth man facing backups rather than a starter facing other starters?

  14. Nick C.

    Rahsidi don’t open that can of worms…this argument came up with Lee awhile back. After posts and posts and posts, including graphs and charts on how players production or PER stays kinda similar in more cases than not with increased minutes, and comments about how full units are not substituted etc., etc. everyone pretty much just came out of it as entrenched in their position as they came into it. Have you ever seen anyone even concede that there is garbage time and stats piled up then are pretty much worhtless?

  15. jon abbey

    I don’t think it’s that he’s facing backups consistently as much as it is he’s the third or fourth priority for the defense usually on Atlanta, whereas on NY he was the first or second.

  16. TDM

    From the “Things That Make Me Want to Put My Head Through A Plate-Glass Window” column of the day:

    “If the Raptors and Bosh reach the expected conclusion that it’s time for an amicable divorce, Houston has amassed an enticing cache of sign-and-trade assets. One source, offering one small example, says that the Raptors are intrigued by young forward Jordan Hill, whom the Rockets extracted from the Knicks in the Tracy McGrady three-way deal in February.”

    http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/15596/millers-nice-but-bosh-still-foremost-in-rockets-sights

  17. ess-dog

    Eh. I’m becoming convinced that Lee, even at 13 mil, is better at the 4 than Bosh for 17 mil. Look at that extra 4 mil for a second. That’s the difference between us having 12 mil in space and 16 mil in space in 2011 when Melo is available. And that’s just one example.
    Whatever happens, it’s still great that we have that cap space.
    Aside from the Cavs (a better team than people give them credit for), “star” guided teams aren’t faring well compared to the teams that are strong at every position: Spurs, Jazz, Celtics. Sure you could argue they also have stars: Pierce, Boozer/Williams, and Duncan, but they are teams with no holes. Yes a star is nice, but if you do what Miami has done for Wade (close to nothing) it doesn’t matter. We have to make sure we have the flexibility to not just get stars but surround them with a full team (hard to do with only 4 viable players as of July 1.) But you catch my drift. I just hope when all is said and done we come out of this with a very real and defensively talented center who can crash the O-glass. I could watch a Douglas, Chandler, Gallo, Lee, center X lineup all day. Upgrade Douglas or Chandler for a Lebron, Paul, Rubio, Wade, Iggy, or even Devin Harris and we’ll look pretty nice (hey, unexpected things happen.)
    And I really think that Gallo will make a huge Dirk-like jump next year (not the pure scorer Dirk is, but maybe a better player all-around.) When he builds up leg strength, he could have a Paul Pierce type of game/role on this team.
    Heh, I think I’m trying to fire myself up so I can make through to July.

  18. Caleb

    Gotta admit, the all-in gamble is not looking hot… the backup plans are fading fast.

    I’m still pretty confident that Jordan Hill will not come back to haunt us. Too much.

    But it’s nearly at the point where Knicks have got to think “gulp” all-out push just to re-sign David Lee.

    It is tricky… there are more than a dozen “max” or near-max salary slots out there: Miami (3), New Jersey (2), Knicks (2), Toronto, Cleveland, Chicago, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, LA Clippers and possibly Dallas & Houston (with reasonable sign-and-trade ammo).

    Of those 15 landing spots… I’d have to say at least 6 are, on the surface, more attractive than the Knicks.

    Better for most FAs:
    Miami x 3, Cleveland, Chicago, Dallas

    Better but might not have enough $$: Houston

    Arguably Better, if you can stand the owner/surroundings:
    Oklahoma City, LAClips

    Worse than MSG:
    Toronto, Nets, Atlanta

    FAs expecting big money? You’ve got LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, Boozer, Lee, Johnson, Gay… at least 8 players… all demanding $14 million-plus.. I guess there’s a long-shot that Nowitzki or Paul Pierce takes the plunge.

    With at least a dozen big salary slots available, don’t count on a discount. Maybe Donnie playing softball with DL last summer will help – maybe he agrees to $12 million and big raises.

    Anyway, you can see the Knicks are in trouble, unless they luck out and LeBron or Bosh is just looking to come to NY. More than likely Donnie ends up biting the bullet, overpaying Johnson & Gay, or hanging tight and diving into the secondary market – the Mike Millers, the Childresses, the Ray Allens of the world. Even re-signing Harrington.

    It doesn’t HAVE to be a disaster. Assuming they reel Lee back in, add one pretty good player – they’ll be better than this year, maybe make a run at .500 and the playoffs… we could still have cap flexibility and hope, assuming we don’t have maxed out Rudy Gays on the roster.

    But we’re down to LeBron’s whims, and that sucks.

  19. ess-dog

    Utah will have 12-13 mil if Boozer leaves right? And they could open up even more space.
    I think Miami really has 2.5 slots, or 2.75. They could theoretically fit a Wade, Amare and maybe a Haywood.
    Pierce won’t leave. Dirk could be signed and traded to the highest bidder.
    Gay’s the one player we really don’t need.
    But yes at this point, we would probably be looking at a Johnson and/or Boozer.
    It will be interesting to see what Donnie prefers: overspending for those two, or holding onto the cap $ and using it in the future.
    Trade route is always the unpredictable avenue. A star could demand a trade or an organization could be desperate for cash relief.

  20. ess-dog

    And even if we “lose” Lee, it will be through a sign-and-trade, so we will get assets back in some form.
    The only way I’ll be really bummed is if we bring back people I hate at any price: Duhon, Harrington, Hughes…. that sort.

  21. Garson

    Thinking in terms of not getting Lebron:

    If we do sign johnson and boozer to a max… Is there a possibility of doing a sign and trade of Lee for Devin Harris (assuming they get #1 Wall Pick)

    Our team going forward would look like the following:

    PG Harris
    SG Johnson
    SF Gallinari
    PF Boozer
    C Baron

    Chandler
    Douglass
    Walker
    Rookie
    Rookie

  22. Owen

    Caleb – I agree. I am not feeling good about this offseason.

    Someone tell me why we didn’t sign Delfino? I am sure I argued for that move somewhere along the line. Going to be a great second half to the Bucks-Hawks game, unless you like scoring…

  23. massive

    If we miss on Chris Bosh, there’s no way we don’t re-sign Lee. Maybe if we can get Amar’e, but Boozer? If Donnie Walsh does this, then he’s still a Pacer at heart and hates the Knicks organization. And i really think Eddy Curry’s contract would be good enough to get B-Diddy (love the nickname) or Iggy from their respective teams. Like if the Clippers luck out and win the lottery, Baron Davis is on the market. Or if Philly gets the number 2 pick, Evan Turner has a higher ceiling than Iggy, and would be cheaper. This year’s lottery teams have good players at the guard position (except for the Pacers and Wizards, of course), so we could end up with Monta Ellis, Baron Davis, Devin Harris, Iggy, Rubio/Flynn, Paul/Collison, Ben Gordon/Rip, etc. I trust that Donnie Walsh will do right by NY and bring playoff basketball back to MSG. Say this is our line-up next season:

    PG:Devin Harris
    SG: Joe Johnson
    SF: Gallo
    PF: David Lee
    C: O’Neal (assuming David Lee takes around 11-12 mill)

    not too bad in my opinion.

    PS: Chris Paul said he wants a “player’s coach” according to ESPN Rumor Central. Who better than D’Antoni?

  24. Caleb

    You can’t count on getting something for Lee in a sign and trade. Yes, he’d get more money, but plenty of teams could offer him $70-80 million without giving anyone back. He can call his own shots.

    I do think the Knicks could have some luck in the trade market, but most of the guys mentioned – I’d rather not have them. Baron Davis, really? Iguodala is an exception but I’d be surprised if the Sixers couldn’t get more than salary relief. Maybe we could pull off something like Iggy and a draft pick for Chandler… I could imagine Philly giving away Dalembert for nothing, which would be a nice upgrade for 2010-2011, and still comes off the cap next summer.

    p.s. Utah is almost at the cap, even without Boozer
    p.p.s. If Miami gives away Beasley, they could max out Wade AND two others… or keep Beasley, pay two max salaries and another $11+ million.
    p.p.s. I did forget Washington… and Minnesota… each with more than max cap room… but not really prime FA destinations.

  25. massive

    I agree that I wouldn’t take most of those guys either. But any of them are an upgrade, as long as we don’t get Monta Ellis. But my point was we won’t end up paying anybody undeserving of max cash, instead get rid of Eddy Curry and keep some of that space. And Bill Walker is probably easier to move than Wilson Chandler since he makes less than a million dollars next season. But I expect a big trade before we sign anybody in FA. Honestly, I’d rather have Baron Davis than Eddy Curry, but something tells me Walsh is going to rob some team blind through trade. Wouldn’t be surprised if its New Orleans or Minnesota.

  26. BigBlueAL

    Sorry massive but to me Boozer is better than Lee. Now neither one is worth a max contract but for the same price if possible ill easily take Boozer over Lee.

  27. Owen

    Too bad the Thunder lost last night. I did take deep satisfaction from seeing the Mamba/Assassin miss the last second shot to win the game he never misses….

  28. Owen

    Lol, yes, I am sure that is what’s written over at 20 Second Timeout. Just one more thing Gasol couldn’t do without Kobe…

  29. TDM

    So Bosh tweeted asking his fans where he should go next year and why. Then, later he corrected it saying should he stay in Toronto or should he go. Toronto better start looking for a S&T because if Bosh leaves and they have nothing to show for it, especially with all signs pointing towards him leaving, there will be a riot.

    Someone above mentioned J O’Neal. I’d much rather target Haywood. With Dallas getting booted I’m the first round again, I’m thinking there may be a big turnover there.

  30. iserp

    Could this be possible? Sign Joe Johnson to something a bit less than the max (a 5 year deal starting at 14 million). Throw the rest of the cap avalaible to Tyrus Thomas (9~10 million), hope Bobcats don’t match. Then S&T David Lee and Eddy Curry for Chris Bosh and Calderon.

    So we would have:

    Calderon / Sergio
    Joe Johnson / Toney Douglas
    Gallinari / Chandler
    Chris Bosh / 2nd Round Pick or Memphis/Atlanta Pick
    Tyrus Thomas / Earl Barron

    I am a bit wary about Ty Thomas (could be another head case), but we need another PF/C that doesn’t cost us the max and there aren’t many available; Haywood perhaps.

    Would JJ leave some money? If teams are waiting to see what Lebron / Wade does, they’re not going to throw the max at JJ. So if we offer him a long deal before anyone else, maybe he signs with us; although that means renouncing Lebron even before he decides what to do.

    Would Toronto do a S&T with us? I think this S&T is pretty good for then, since they get a quality player and we take one of their monster contracts. I am not sure if they can get something better from anyone else. We don’t have a stash of draft picks to offer, but i don’t think anybody can offer a player better than Lee (specially, of Lee’s age)

    Would Lee want to be part of this S&T? Mmmm… That’s difficult to know. Again, if we act fast, nobody is going to throw him a long contract before Amare/Boozer/Bosh decides what to do, so he may jump at the first opportunity to get a good contract.

    I prefer being proactive rather than waiting too much for Lebron and then go out empty handed. I believe Lebron and Wade are going to take a loooong time before deciding what to do (even if they tell the media something different)

  31. massive

    I would love if it was possible to keep all 3 of our wings, but is it just me, or do you see one of them going, namely Chandler or Bill? We can’t just get rid of Eddy Curry’s contract with a draft pick, right? Like say this happens:

    PG: Paul/Douglas
    SG: Johnson/Walker
    SF: Gallo/Chandler
    PF: Bosh/Varnado
    C: Barron

    This seems almost impossible, right?

  32. ess-dog

    Wow, since we’re still on the Crawford thread:

    JC: 8-16, 4-4 from the line, 22 pts, 6 assists in 35 minutes.

    JJ: 4-14, no free throws, 8 pts, 4 assists in 41 minutes.

    SAY NO TO JOE.

  33. massive

    I just had an epiphany, Toronto isn’t letting Chris Bosh go without a sign and trade which kills Miami’s hopes (and ours) of getting him, as teams like Dallas and Houston have more pieces. And Stoudemire is working out a new deal with Phoenix, right? So things are looking pretty grim for Miami, wouldn’t you say? Those guys were most likely to bolt for Miami, but things are looking like other teams are gonna score on those two.

    PS: Jamal Crawford had a solid game, surely had a better game than Joe Johnson. Maybe Vince Carter will show him up to drop his FA worth.

  34. jaddddd1

    Massive, Toronto has no control over whether Bosh leaves without a S&T. If he wants to leave, he can leave, and Toronto can’t do anything about it. If he wants the 6th year, the higher raises, etc. THEN he has to do a S&T, but he can leave without one if he wants.

  35. jaddddd1

    Also, if Bosh says to Toronto “sign-and-trade me to New York,” the Raps aren’t in much of a position to demand anything in return. We don’t need to have more attractive pieces than anyone else if he wants to be sign-and-traded to NY.

  36. massive

    Jaddddd1,

    I understand, but I doubt Bosh leaves any money on the table, especially to play “2nd banana” to Wade. I just think that D-Wade staying in Miami isn’t as certain as popular belief would suggest. Plus, if Bosh leaves, Bosh in Texas works out great for him and Toronto, as he’ll return to his home-state, be out of the Conference (or Division, for that matter), and he’ll be “1st banana” on a team like Houston.

    Just thought I’d put in another possibility as to how crazy this summer can get. Honestly, I’m just hoping that Miami strikes out on PFs. Send Chris Bosh somewhere, Carlos Boozer to Chicago, Amar’e to Brooklyn or Phoenix, and David Lee in New York. This way, Wade is pressed to come to NY and play with Gallo, Lee, Chandler, Douglas, and whomever Eddy Curry’s contract can get us, like Devin Harris if and when they only sign one guy and want to get Carmelo back home in Brooklyn (he was born here, moved to B-More). This sounds like a diabolical scheme, but hey. I’m desperate for the Knicks to get a franchise guy this offseason, and Rex Ryan has me very optimistic.

  37. Brian Cronin

    I was disappointed (but not surprised) when I heard that seven people voted someone ahead of Lebron in their MVP vote.

    But I was surprised and appalled to learn that two people voted two players ahead of Lebron in their MVP vote! Yes, that’s right, they looked at Lebron, they looked at the rest of the NBA, and they decided that two of Durant/Howard/Bryant was “more valuable” than Lebron.

    Freakin’ contrarian attention-craving jerks.

    Man, do I hate those types of media members.

  38. Owen

    I can see making an argument for Howard. He was far and away the best defensive player in the league and easily the best player on the team with the best efficiency differential in the regular season. Wouldn’t get my vote though. Anyone who voted for Kobe pisses me off obviously…

  39. stratomatic

    I’ve also brought up the sign and trade issue because I think it’s more complex than some people think.

    If a player is willing to accept less salary, smaller raises, and one less year despite the risk of injury or a new CBA that limits the salary on that last year in order to play for one specific team, then he is in complete control of the situation. He can simply walk if a sign and trade can’t be worked out with that specific team.

    However, if getting that max contract is his priority, he’s willing to play for multiple teams, and his current team would be willing to allow him to walk without a reasonable sign and trade (just accept the extra cap space instead), then the door is open to negotiations with several teams.

    It’s that second case that could be an issue for the Knicks because the team gutted itself of draft picks, Hill, etc… trying to get under the cap for 2010. We basically have Lee and other core players (like Chandler, Gallo, and Douglas) to work with.

    If Chris Bosh decides to leave (which seems more likely now) and he wants a max deal (something he’s already stated he wants) then it may come down to a sign and trade.

    Let’s say his #1 choice is the Knicks, but he would also consider Miami, Chicago, LA, Houston, or Dallas. Toronto is going to negotiate with all those teams and look for the best deal for themselves. They may put one or two cities on the table for Bosh and then he’s going to decide to either take it or walk. If his #1 priority is the max deal and not NY, he may take it because he doesn’t want to walk and get a worse deal and Toronto would rather he walk than take back shit.

    If NY was in a position to offer a comparable deal, he would come to NY.

  40. stratomatic

    I think Lebron is so far and away the MVP they should probably just suspend the vote until Howard becomes more of a consistent offensive presence or Durant learns how to be a point forward and accumulate assists.

    Lebron’s box score stats are very superior to every else’s and IMO it’s impossible to make the case that someone else more than makes up the difference on the defensive end because Lebron is also an elite defender even if he’s not the best.

    IMO Lebron is going to surpass Jordan as the best player ever even if he never accumulates as many championships.

  41. Z

    “Anyone who voted for Kobe pisses me off obviously…”

    It was Thomas B. (his Knickerblogger credentials got him a vote this year).

  42. Brian Cronin

    So, reading more into it, I am even more appalled.

    The three Howard voters?

    ALL Orlando-based writers.

    Seriously, fuck the heck?

    I think there should be a new rule where you can’t vote for a player from the town that you’re based in for MVP, sort of like how coaches can’t vote for their own players when it comes time to pick reserves for the All-Star Game.

    That way, Lebron could still say he was a “unanimous” choice, even if the Cleveland-based voters were not allowed to vote for him.

    These biased attention-craving lame-o’s really get me mad.

  43. Brian Cronin

    Oh, and if you want to see a nice exercise in fabricating “logic,” check out Chris Broussard’s latest column:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=broussard_chris&page=LeBronMVP-100503

    He states that Lebron having his MVP party in Akron shows that he definitely is not leaving. Meanwhile, other columnists are writing that Lebron did it that way as a thank you and a “no matter what, I’ll always love you guys” deal, meaning he likely is leaving.

    In other words, no one knows anything but they’re all choosing to argue that Lebron saying X or Y is a clear indication one way or the other.

    Pretty silly.

    At the same time, though, I guess if you know that’s what the readers want to read, what do we expect Broussard to do?

  44. d-mar

    Brian, Berman had an equally ridiculous column recently (surprising, huh?) about how D Wade’s “slip up” where he said he’s looking forward to “beefing up OUR roster” (emphasis added on OUR) showed that he’s staying in Miami. That is quite a piece of investigative journalism by Berman, normally you’d expect a star to talk about beefing up another team’s roster.

  45. Z

    Easy there, Brian. Or Fred Hickman may suspect you of leaving those voice mails back in 2000…

  46. Brian Cronin

    Ha!

    You know, as crazy as Hickman’s vote was, at least it wasn’t because he worked in Philly.

  47. Ted Nelson

    @43 stratomatic,

    I know this issue has been raised before, but can you really think of any examples of a max player being held up because his team wouldn’t sign-and-trade him? Maybe there are examples of lesser free agents–known or unknown to the public. I can’t think of any max FAs, although maybe it’s happened and we never heard about it. Lesser FAs might have had to settle for the MLE when a team would pay them $9 mill per or re-sign with their old team or something.

    re: the Bosh example. It’s a bit of a card game where neither side knows the other one’s hand. (Although Bosh specifically may or may not have shown his hand with the rumors floating around that he’ll only take an absolute max.) If Bosh’s agent is any good he’ll make sure his client goes where he wants by bluffing the Raptors into a sign-and-trade.
    Teams will generally even take nothing more than a trade exception and a small up-yours to the new team’s payroll. i.e. Seattle/OKC with Rashard Lewis. Since the Knicks are way under the cap, Toronto doesn’t have to take back matching salaries. They can get a small trade exception and a 2nd round pick. They can get Wilson Chandler. Not great assets, but also not liabilities.

  48. Ted Nelson

    “PG: Paul/Douglas
    SG: Johnson/Walker
    SF: Gallo/Chandler
    PF: Bosh/Varnado
    C: Barron

    This seems almost impossible, right?”

    Yes, impossible this offseason. NO is not in a position to give away Chris Paul yet. Once they know he’s walking in 1/2 a season (before the trade deadline in 2011-12) they are in a position where anything is better than nothing. Right now they have one of the best–the best, maybe the best ever when healthy–PGs in the NBA under contract for 2 more years. They always try to trim payroll, but not to zero. West and obviously Peja and probably Okafor they might basically give away. Paul, no way. When you’re trying to sell your team having a superstar like Paul is better than cleaner books but a terrible team. Even with a top 3 pick your chances of getting a Chris Paul caliber player are minimal. Although, maybe his knees are shot and it’s a downhill spiral from here.
    Either way, they can get A LOT more than Eddy Curry for Chris Paul. If nothing else a team with cap room would likely take him off their hands without making them take Curry. That’s still impossible, but a huge improvement over taking back Curry. They’ll get some assets if they decide to trade Paul this offseason.

  49. ess-dog

    Lest we forget, Toronto and NYK are in the same division. Forces in Toronto will probably try to send Bosh as far west as possible. I feel like in Bosh’s case, either there’s the small chance a Lee for Bosh deal will be worked out, or Bosh will just leave outright (this is of course if Bosh has chosen NY as his destination next to Lebron.)
    If things aren’t working favorably with Bosh, the same Lee deal could be worked out for Amare if he opts out. But again, this all hinges on Lebron. I mean, the Knicks only have 3 real assets (not including Lee and Walker or Curry’s contract) – 2 of those are our “building blocks”. What team with a superstar would even target us for a trade of any type unless for our free agent (Lee) and/or our expiring (Curry) or whatever draft picks we have left? We have to pretty much hope these guys come to us without any concern for their old team. And why should they have concern? Do you really want to gut your new team of talent as a favor to your old GM?

  50. Ted Nelson

    “I’m still pretty confident that Jordan Hill will not come back to haunt us. Too much.”

    If he’s used in a sign-and-trade for Bosh and the Knicks get nothing he haunts us right there. Not THAT likely, but it increases the odds of him haunting us. I do think he’ll be a solid NBA starter on his career. However, I think the Knicks made their moves for a SHOT AT LeBron, not necessarily for LeBron. (Unless he had REALLY STRONG inside info) Walsh knew LeBron was only a chance, but the chance at him alone was worth the gamble. If he comes, amazing, and if not then they laid it all on the line for a legit chance at the best player ever. Then again maybe I’m giving him too much credit and he’s excited about Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay. Or maybe I’m not giving him enough credit and he schrewdly drafts, signs, and trades his way to a contender without signing a star.

    ” Iguodala is an exception but I’d be surprised if the Sixers couldn’t get more than salary relief.”

    Taking back Brand probably gets you Iggy, but that’s a hard pill to swallow. Maybe taking Dalembert is enough if the Knicks have that much cap space to play with after free agency.

  51. Ted Nelson

    “Tyrus Thomas (9~10 million), hope Bobcats don’t match.”

    I would shoot myself before giving Ty Thomas that much money, especially to get bullied around at center. He doesn’t play offense and he’s a skinny 6-8. No thanks.
    The Knicks will eventually need another bigman, but their opening day 2010-11 roster doesn’t have to be their permanent roster for the next 5 years.

    “Would JJ leave some money? If teams are waiting to see what Lebron / Wade does, they’re not going to throw the max at JJ.”

    Depends on what the Hawks want to do. If they still love JJ and think he’s the key to remaining a 2nd round playoff team then he has one max offer on the table already. If they’re ready to move on without him then he might be left out in the cold and, as you say, be forced to take less than max money.

  52. Brian Cronin

    I would shoot myself before giving Ty Thomas that much money, especially to get bullied around at center.

    I think I would rank paying Ty Thomas that much money a bit higher than shooting myself, but still quite low overall.

  53. Brian Cronin

    Vinny Del Negro fired by the Bulls.

    We all knew it would happen but, well, now we know for sure!

  54. Brian Cronin

    David Stern is rooting for Lebron to resign with the Cavs.

    Duly noted, David.

  55. iserp

    “I would shoot myself before giving Ty Thomas that much money, especially to get bullied around at center.”

    OK, OK, then Brendan Haywood. But it was a possibility in which we have two real PF/C. If you prefer, put Bosh at C (and if you offer Ty Thomas 3 years, it is not that hard to swallow even he is a flop). There are many people that think that we’re gonna be bailed out by NO giving us Okafor for Curry, but it doesn’t work that way. Teams wanting to cut salary usually trade a good player for an expiring and some young talent / picks. We had to pay picks and young talent to cut salary because Jared Jeffries is not a good player.

    Besides, using Curry to take back Calderon is important, because Toronto is going to be in rebuilding mode, and that would make a S&T with us much more palatable than the one that Houston can offer. And we get a real PG.

    BTW, if Haywood resigns and we don’t want to have anything to do with Tyrus Thomas (if you offer less money, Bobcats will match). What do you do then? Sign Darko MIlicic? Shaq playing 7SOL? resign Al Harrington??

    The only other option is putting your hopes in a 32 year old Jermaine O’Neal. But we won’t be a contender right away, and i would prefer young players.

    I guess we could play with Chandler at PF and Bosh at C, which would be quite D’Antoni like. But if we have the word of Toronto of making a S&T with us, after signing one max/near max player, we can use the rest of the cap space to pay whichever player we want (just make sure you don’t offer really long deals, so we aren’t in cap hell again), and some other PF/C seems reasonable.

  56. Droidz1979

    The Cavs just lost to the Celts at home by 18pts… hope the Celts finish off the Cavs at home and Lebron bolts for the Knicks next season !!!!!

  57. Ted Nelson

    iserp,

    I’m just personally not a Tyrus Thomas fan. He’s exciting and a good defensive player, I just think that when a player has the combination of inconsistentcy, question marks, and holes in his game (as in fully 1/2 the game: offense) that Thomas does you don’t make a big investment in him. I’m not high on him, so to me the risk is not worth the reward. I would honestly have rather kept Jordan Hill than add Tyrus Thomas on a big contract. (I’m sure others will disagree.)

    “There are many people that think that we’re gonna be bailed out by NO giving us Okafor for Curry, but it doesn’t work that way. Teams wanting to cut salary usually trade a good player for an expiring and some young talent / picks.”

    Depends how badly they want to cut salary and how good the player is. NO always wants to stay on budget and Okafor is coming off a poor season + has back issues, so I could see them more or less giving him away if that’s the route they want to go. This is not Chris Paul where he’s more valuable than the cap space, because NO’s ownership is trying to sell they’re probably better off with less salary commitments and no Emeka Okafor. I could almost see them giving away West first, since he’s easier to replace in my opinion.
    The other side of it is whether you want Okafor as the Knicks’ C. Like Ty Thomas, I feel that the guy is a PF defensively. He’d be a defensive upgrade over Lee at the 5, but he’s not a natural there. Offensively he doesn’t shoot jumpers and he doesn’t finish at the basket as well as Lee, so in all likelihood if they’re both on the court together D’Antoni’s going to force Lee to take way more jumpers than he should. And two of your best players have a history of back injury (Gallo and Okafor).

    We’ll have to see what kind of mode Toronto is in. I wouldn’t consider them in rebuilding mode just yet. You may be right that taking Calderon as well could be a way to get Bosh. Toronto would want you to take Calderon without Curry involved and Bosh might not want to leave Toronto only to still have Calderon as a wingman, but maybe it can work out. While the old team has little leverage in a sign-and-trade, the one thing they can do it say: we’re not taking back crappy contracts to trade you to a capped out team. Houston can offer something likw a Scola sign-and-trade, Trevor Ariza, Jordan Hill, and pick(s) for Bosh, though, in which case Toronto could easily be interested in a sign-and-trade should Bosh decide on Houston. They could still turn around and offer Calderon to the Knicks for Curry, or Houston could also include Jeffries in the deal and take back Calderon themselves.

    “BTW, if Haywood resigns and we don’t want to have anything to do with Tyrus Thomas (if you offer less money, Bobcats will match). What do you do then? Sign Darko MIlicic? Shaq playing 7SOL? resign Al Harrington??”

    The cap space is more valuable than Tyrus Thomas, in my opinion. You just don’t give a guy a contract you know you’re going to regret before you give it to him. The Knicks roster doesn’t have to be set in stone as of opening night next season. There are also plenty of other options including the draft, cheap veteran placeholders, a trade for Biedrins/Okafor/Gortat/etc, or a cheap high upside young free agent like Ian Mahinmi. In offseason 2011 several defensive centers are available, including Tim Duncan, Tyson Chandler, Dalembert, Perkins, Noah, Horford, and Marc Gasol (restricted), Nene, Dampier, and Turiaf. Kirilenko is also a free agent. Some of those guys will be overpaid, but it’s a good time to pick up a center if the Knicks hold on to some cap space.

    “But if we have the word of Toronto of making a S&T with us, after signing one max/near max player, we can use the rest of the cap space to pay whichever player we want (just make sure you don’t offer really long deals, so we aren’t in cap hell again)”

    I’m not following your math. If you sign one max guy the Knicks have enough room to sign another max guy. If you then sign-and-trade for Bosh in a deal that includes Curry for Calderon… the Knicks are capped out. There is no cap space to sign Tyrus Thomas to a $10 mill per deal.

  58. Ted Nelson

    Pzrybilla is another C who may be on the block, if he doesn’t just decide to opt-out this offseason.

  59. iserp

    “I’m not following your math. If you sign one max guy the Knicks have enough room to sign another max guy. If you then sign-and-trade for Bosh in a deal that includes Curry for Calderon… the Knicks are capped out. There is no cap space to sign Tyrus Thomas to a $10 mill per deal.”

    We can exceed the cap through the sign and trade because we own Lee’s bird rights & can still take back 25% more salary.

    We can send Lee at 12 million and Curry at 10.5 million and take back Bosh at the max (16.8 million) and Calderon at 9 million. So we effectively go over the cap 2 million because we sign Lee to 2 millions more than his cap hold, and by 4.5 million because we take back more salary in the trade.

    That 6.5 million + 3 million than JJ is leaving in my hypothetical situation are the 9.5 million you can throw at Ty Thomas or some other free agent. The main problem is that we can’t sign Bosh outright after that, so we lose our leverage; however, Toronto may still prefer our S&T rather than Houston’s or Bosh bolting to Chicago.

  60. ess-dog

    Lee + Ridnour + Haywood > Bosh + Tyrus + Calderon IMO. Or at least equal.
    Plus, N.O. has new crazy rich owners, so I’m guessing the fire sale is off down there.

  61. Z

    “I’m just personally not a Tyrus Thomas fan… He’s exciting and a good defensive player…[with] holes in his game (as in fully 1/2 the game: offense) that Thomas does you don’t make a big investment in him.”

    Ted– I think you are probably right, but the same argument can be made against a lot of guys (like Lee for example) who are gaudy offensively but also severely lack in 1/2 of the game: defense. Do you think offense is worth more in terms of $$ than defense is? Is Lee worth $11 million yet Ty Thomas worth less than $9, even though both only have value in 1/2 of their minutes played?

    Seems to me that defensive players actually give more bang for the bucks invested in them because they specialize in something that you can’t have too much of. Offense is easier to assess true value to because it is easier to measure, but isn’t there a logical basis to the “defense wins championships” cliche to, at the very least, make defensive specialists worthy of similar investments?

  62. Ted Nelson

    iserp,

    It’s not up to Toronto as much as it’s up to Bosh.

    I suppose there’s a chance, but there are so many conditionals in that scenario. Bosh has to want NY, Lee has to want Toronto, Toronto has to want to give away Calderon and bring in Lee, Joe Johnson has to get no max offer or decide to take a lower salary to play for the Knicks. And the Knicks have to bring in Tyrus Thomas at a huge annual salary. Like I said, I personally don’t want any part of Tyrus Thomas on the Knicks. It’s dubious whether the guy’s earned his rookie scale contract. Reminds me of paying Jerome James after he failed to earn his previous (smaller) contract.

    ess-dog,

    I’m not a big Haywood fan, either. He’s had well documented motivational issues since college, will be 31 next season, and all his “defensive prowess” has amounted to little for his teams. He’s a solid NBA center, but I would be looking at him more as an MLE signing or a final piece to the puzzle rather than sinking valuable free cap space into him. I view the current obsession with getting a center on par with last offseason’s obsession with getting a PG. If you’ve got talent the positions will work out. D’Antoni won 60+ games annually without a C, the Lakers win 60+ games annually with Derek Fisher at PG.
    I suppose I would take him over Tyrus Thomas given his size and position. I pretty much presume he’ll be re-signed by Dallas, but who knows what they’ll look to do this offseason.

    I would say Calderon is better than Ridnour, but it depends on the $ and years Ridnour gets.

    Z,

    I completely agree that defense is the moneyball approach in the NBA. I was in favor of hiring Skiles or Avery Johnson instead of D’Antoni, and the strategy that comes along with D’Antoni as coach is the reason I often find myself having random anger with him.
    -I don’t think Thomas fits the bang-for-buck mold. Because he’s a freak-athlete, high draft pick, high upside chucker he’s going to get overpaid. If you have a comprehensive system to assign player value and Thomas is a bargain than sure. I doubt $10 mill will be a bargain for Thomas, though.
    -He’s a mediocre rebounder, which takes away some of his defensive bigman value.
    -You are right about offense being more easily quantified. I can look at simple stats and see that Thomas is a terrible offensive player. A D-League caliber offensive player. I can look at those same stats and see that Lee is an All-Star caliber NBA offender. It’s harder to quantify the difference each one’s defensive impact makes to his team.
    I can say that the Bobcats are 6.5 pts/100 possessions worse when Thomas is on the court. The Bulls, on the other hand, benefited a lot more from Thomas’ defense and were 3.1 points better with Thomas on the court (6.1 in the right direction on D and 3 in the wrong on O).

    I wouldn’t have a problem adding Thomas to a well established team with strong offensive options and a hole at PF. Let’s say the Spurs hadn’t brought in Blair and McDyess last offseason. Let’s say Odom retires this offseason to keep up with the kardashians (not really a good example before I’m not sure what Phil Jackson would do with Thomas in the triangle… next to Artest, but couldn’t resist that joke). If the Cavs want to slide Varajao to the 5 and bring in another 4 to compete with Hickson. Or if I were a defensive team like Milwaukee. Or if you’ve got a strong offensive center like say Memphis as their 3rd bigman.
    The Knicks, though, have a lot of cap space to build the foundation of a team. If Thomas comes at a strong value I’d take him. I wouldn’t rush to overpay a defensive specialist when, as you point out, you can find an undervalued, underpaid one pretty easily.

  63. Ted Nelson

    Also, Z,

    David Lee is not a negative defensively at the 4. Not a positive, but more like a zero. Thomas was killing an already terrible Bobcats’ offense with his usage rate of 25 and TS% of .499. Thomas’ offensive production has varied, but it’s swung between bad and god-awful.

    ess-dog,

    The reason I say Calderon is better than Ridnour is that I feel Ridnour is a prime fluke rule candidate (Hollinger’s concept… Rinour’s 28 and his PERs the last four seasons are 13.7, 11.3, 12.9, 17.7… TS%s .509, .482, .500, .570… what are the odds he can repeat his 2009-10 career year?) and Calderon is having an off year. Therefore, next season I think Calderon is due for a bounce-back and Ridnour for a fall-off.

  64. massive

    I wouldn’t take Tyrus Thomas for 9-10 mill. That’s a terrible deal, especially if we think David Lee is worth 10-12. Tyrus Thomas is nowhere near as valuable as David Lee, he’s more like J.J. Hickson.

    Calderon? I’m not too high on him. Not because he’s having an off year or anything, I just believe that Derrick Rose, Jameer Nelson, Rajon Rondo, and possibly John Wall will murder us on the perimeter next year. Depends on what D’Antoni wants; Perimeter D or 3-pt shooting. Personally, i think we can get a guy who does both, especially at Calderon’s salary.

  65. Ted Nelson

    Z,

    The more I think about it, you do raise an interesting point about Lee’s value vs. Thomas’ value. I tend to think that Lee is significantly more valuable, but there’s a tipping point where he might be overpaid just like every other FA. Since Lee’s been undervalued for so long I think we all assume he’ll be undervalued no matter what, but that’s not necessarily the case.

    Massive,

    Calderon is not just a 3-pt shooter. He’s one of the best offensive PGs in the league. Great playmaker as well as scorer. I can literally think of 3 or 4 PGs in the world who give you what Calderon does offensively and also play strong D (Paul–when healthy, Deron Williams, Wade and LeBron even though they’re not technically PGs… Rondo comes pretty close and is obviously a great defender). All those guys are much better than Calderon and it’s not to say that those are the only 4 PGs in the NBA who are better overall (Calderon is truly terrible defensively which costs him a lot of value).
    I agree that Calderon is a bit overpaid for maybe the worst defensive PG in the league, and can understand why you’re not crazy about him. However, outside of LeBron and Wade and maybe Joe Johnson (who will also be overpaid) I don’t see any obviously better options at PG for the Knicks this summer (maybe Devin Harris via trade, and that depends entirely on whether he’s 08-09 Devin Harris or 09-10 Devin Harris… the former was a star, the latter pretty average). Not to say the Knicks need a long-term PG this summer, but I don’t know that you can get a guy who “does both” this offseason. There aren’t many guys who put up TS% over .600 and ast% over 40. A handfull in the league.
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/caldejo01.html
    I think Calderon would be a perfect offensive PG for D’Antoni. He’s as close to a Steve Nash clone as there is (Mark Price maybe).

    Rose, Nelson, and Rondo, by the way, are capable of killing any team at any time. None of those 3 does it on an extremely consistent basis, but they all generally hurt opposing teams. The Suns managed to be an average or above average defensive team despite both Steve Nash and no interior D to speak of in part by switching Nash off of strong PGs onto non-scorer and jump shooters. Knicks could do the same thing with Douglas, Walker, Chandler, etc… D’Antoni was even putting Gallo on PGs.

    I agree that Lee is more valuable than Thomas, but I wouldn’t really compare Thomas to Hickson: Hickson is good offensively and weak defensively, while Thomas is the opposite. As far as overall impact, I don’t know.

  66. massive

    Ted,

    I see your point. Calderon is a phenomenal on offense, and I hadn’t thought about the defensive job they were doing in Phoenix. I guess he might work out after all, but he’s a guy I think we should make a trade for in august, not when we get Bosh. I feel that if Stoudemire gets an extension, Bosh is the key to Wade. And Calderon’s contract too early would mean no Wade. Unless we do a sign and trade, sending Eddy Curry in a deal with Toronto for the two, then getting Calderon doesn’t matter because we still have enough for a max guy.

  67. massive

    Also Ted,

    I think if we can get Devin Harris in our system next year, maybe he’ll be back to that form. I mean he was playing for the worst team in basketball this season. Maybe winning will rejuvenate him. Wasn’t he starting in Dallas at PG during the ’06 Finals? They were winning then, and he was good enough to start.

  68. ess-dog

    Ted,

    I somewhat agree with you on Haywood. Although if you’re talking 9 mil for either Thomas or Haywood, I’d give it to Haywood. And he’s a better fit next to Lee.
    I do have to agree that the Bosh lineup is the more likely one for D’Antoni. In fact the ideal lineup might be Douglas, Walker, Gallo, with Lebron and Bosh/Amare at the 4 and 5 respectively. Utility man, Chandler off the bench. Not that I’m a fan, but if you scrounge enough together, you could bring back T-Mac to round out the rotation.
    D’Antoni would really have to sell his system though. And he can blame lack of quality available centers.
    With Lebron, I’d rather have a guy like Douglas who can hit threes and play good D than Calderon who is losing his job to Jarrett Jack, plus, you save your Curry contract for the trade deadline.

  69. Ted Nelson

    massive,

    “I guess he might work out after all, but he’s a guy I think we should make a trade for in august”

    Yeah, I tend to agree. He’s a back-up plan and/or an option if they want to use Curry’s contract. And even then I agree there are question marks: defense, contract, Toronto’s system makes PGs look good (though D’Antoni’s should too), major decline this season = trend or off-year… All else equal I’d rather go for Andris Biedrins with cap space or Curry’s contract. I have no idea which, if either, will be available and at what price.

    “I think if we can get Devin Harris in our system next year, maybe he’ll be back to that form.”

    I think it’s a matter or health. I didn’t watch the Nets much or follow them day-to-day, but I’m pretty convinced Harris wasn’t healthy last season. He really wasn’t that bad last season, but he had a career low in TS%. His jump shot eFG% was down, but so was his inside eFG% and his FTA/36 and FTA/FGA. Losing Vince Carter might have hurt him and maybe he just wasn’t into it mentally since the team was so bad, but I vaguely remember reading he wasn’t healthy.
    So, the question to me is whether his health is shot long-term or he’ll recover this season. He’s been an effective mid-range shooter, but he’s a bad 3-pt shooter who relies a lot on penetration, finishing at the basket, and going to the line… not necessarily someone who will age well if he’s lost a step.
    If I’m the Nets I’m not sure I’m in a rush to give him away anyway. Not unless I can use the cap space better immediately and/or I think he’s washed up. Even if they do get Wall it’s unlikely he’ll step in next season and be Magic Johnson. He can probably use another guard in the backcourt to share the playmaking and scoring loads. If they get the #3 or 4 pick then they keep Harris almost for sure.
    He was good in Dallas. He’s a good defender, an efficient scorer, a reliable playmaker. His career PER is 17.6 and WS/48 is .122… a well above-average starting PG (if he’s healthy).

  70. Ted Nelson

    massive,

    One last thing is that iserp makes a good point that taking on Calderon (or maybe more so Turkoglu) could be a way to swing a sign-and-trade for Bosh, depending on a lot of factors.

    ess-dog,

    The interesting thing is that the main reason Toronto brought Jarrett Jack in was because he is Chris Bosh’s close friend. Toronto finished as the 5th best offensive team in the NBA, with Calderon having as good an offensive season as Jack. They were the worst defensive team in the NBA, though, and Calderon is a terrible defender (Jack is only a bit better). I don’t know exactly why Calderon lost the starting job. He had his worst season in a while, but he still had a PER of 16.5, a WS/48 of .111, a TS% of .569, a 3P% of .398, and an ast% of 33.8 (which is a big thing that rendered him less effective and less valuable to the Raptors: Hedo’s presense as a playmaker on the wing meant they didn’t need as much of a ball-controlling, playmaking PG). My guess is that Bosh preferred playing with Jack. Which means it’s unlikely Bosh will agree to a sign-and-trade involving Calderon moving with him. That’s total speculation on my part, though. Could just be that on a terrible defensive team with Hedo on the wing and Jack scoring more efficiently than Calderon, Jack made more sense.

    I sort of doubt LeBron and Bosh/Amare would sign up for a small-ball lineup, having all three lost playoff series to physical frontlines year-in and year-out. It might be the situation to start, but I think they’d want assurances that all efforts would be made to find a center going forward. One good thing for the Knicks is that none of their old teams will have much of a physical frontline going forward once Shaq and Z are in wheel chairs (you could make the case they already are). Robin Lopez did play well this year.

  71. massive

    Ted,

    I see that as well, but to me, that’s sort of a deal breaker unless they take Curry back. But if we get Calderon, he’s going to be our primary ball-handler. This would probably turn guys like Wade and Johnson off from NY. But I have a question:

    Say Amar’e signs an extension in Phoenix, Bosh goes to Houston as part of a sign & trade. Do you think Wade stays in Miami to play with Boozer? Or does he bolt Miami for here or Chicago?

  72. Ted Nelson

    I really have no idea, but I’m assuming Wade is pretty likely to stay in Miami. I could see him going to Chicago. I think Rose is overrated at this point, but he’s clearly on a very good career path. They’re a good defensive team and they’d become pretty good offensively with Wade. The biggest way I see him leaving Miami is if he and LeBron decide to play together, which has the best chance of happening in either Miami, New York, or New Jersey I would say. So that could be good news for the Knicks. Not sure if they’d want to join forces to clash with the Kobe-Pau-Bynum and Howard-Lewis-VC-Nelson cores or if they enjoy being on different teams and competing against each other…

    As far as Calderon… I don’t know how much he’d excite free agents like Wade and Johnson. The one selling point the Knicks could use is that D’Antoni will do for Calderon what he did for Nash. If Wade goes to Chicago the problem of sharing the ball is only magnified because Rose can’t shoot and needs the ball in his hand to be effective offensively (though he’s a plus defender while Calderon might as well be an orange cone on D). Johnson doesn’t dominate the ball to the extent Wade and LeBron do, and I don’t think he’d have a real problem playing next to a PG (though either his or Calderon’s ast% would surely suffer, there would be diminishing returns… plus a terrible defender and a mediocre defender in the backcourt together as they age is not the start to a good defensive team).

  73. massive

    Ehh I just think if LeBron, Bosh, and Stoudemire decide to go another route than Miami or NY (just to be fair), than NY is a better situation than Miami. I think Gallo, Douglas, Chandler, and Lee would be better than having Beasley, James Jones, and Boozer, especially knowing that Lee will come cheaper. Beasley may become a scoring monster, but unlikely when he’s not happy, and James Jones hasn’t really been great either. Didn’t here a single thing about him.

    But I think Dallas is a dark horse candidate for Wade. If Wade is fed-up with Miami, and he wants to leave Miami with that 6yr deal, Dallas will probably go all out. They can offer, Caron Butler, Jason Terry, Eric Dampier (who’s contract can be waived), JJ Barea or Roddy B, and their picks for the next season or two. Jason Kidd, D-Wade, Shawn Marion, Dirk Novitzki and Brendan Haywood? Its a powerhouse. Wade will fill a Manu Ginobili-esque role, as he and Marion will be wing scorers when Kidd is on court. When Kidd comes off court, Wade becomes the PG. This makes Beaubois/Barea even more effective because they can be scorers instead of playmakers.

    Honestly, I’d rather see this happen, because I just can’t stand the Heat anymore. Plus, it makes the West too good for Melo’s Nuggets in his prime years, making him bolt for NY. But this summer’s free agent chase can be very simple, but things like this show how crazy this thing can get. Houston could end up with Bosh, and Wade could end up in Dallas. We’d be screwed, hard, but its interesting to explore what can happen.

    But I hope we end up with Wade next season. We could put him at PG, Chandler at the 2, Gallo at 3, Lee at 4, and sign Frye to play the 5. Bill Walker, Toney, and maybe Raja Bell off the bench for the vet minimum. Plus our two picks, maybe Jimmer Fredette and Varnado. Plus Curry’s corpse gives us a 12 man roster.

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