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Monday, November 24, 2014

Hollinger’s Knicks

[In today’s article, we take you back in the KnickerBlogger.Net Time Machine? to February 8th 2006. In this much darker time in Knick history, the hometown blue had been in the middle of a 10 game losing streak. It’s a stark contrast to the 1 game win streak the team is currently riding.

In this date in history, Michael Zannettis sent me this intelligent discourse on the Knicks of his era. Unfortunately I was out of town on business (that thing that allows me to collect money to pay for this thing), and the KnickerBlogger publishing group was on a team building exercise in the mountains of Nepal.

Mr. Zannettis is head of the KnickerBlogger.Net Biology department, ensuring that all employees of KB.N Industries do actually bleed orange & blue. So without further ado…]


mort (nyc): Okay, smart guy. Imagine this: Larry Brown gets fired and John Hollinger is named head coach of the Knicks. Oh, and Stephon Marbury just broke his leg. Who are your starting 5?

John Hollinger: (3:12 PM ET) Wouldn’t be MY dream job, that’s for sure. The obvious move in the frontcourt would be start Frye and Curry, bring Lee off the pine and forget the others. I’d have to play Crawford at point and if Q’s back felt OK would probably play he and Ariza at the wings, with heavy sprinklings of Jalen off the pine. Nate Robinson and Qyntel Woods could sop up whatever minutes are left over and take over for Q when the back acts up.

In the wake of the Davis-Rose trade a lot has been spoken of the luxury tax consequences of assuming Rose?s salary, but I share the sentiment of many Knicks fans in saying I could care less how much money James Dolan loses. Moreover, since their salary cap was already a hopeless situation going into next year, adding Rose does nothing to hurt the remote possibility that they might be under the cap in the summer of 2007. At that time the cages should be cleaned of such albatrosses as Allan Houston, Shandon Anderson, Jerome Williams, and Maurice Taylor. Three players who do not actually play on the team, and the fourth who shouldn?t.

Since the Knicks gave away their draft pick and they are nearly mathematically eliminated from the playoff picture, their record this year has no significance. However, that being said, it would still be nice to see the Knicks win some games. After all, we do like rooting for them.

So the question remains, what is the best rotation for the Knicks in terms of winning games this season (and next)? The conventional wisdom seems to state, at least according to Larry Brown?s resume, that playing rookies is an untenable option, since they are undeveloped and unproductive. Therefore Brown has been riding the more ostensibly reliable veterans?.um?wait. Only the problem is this logic does not apply to the 2006 Knicks. The rookies Brown has on the team are not named Darko or Delfino and are now already superior players to the ones in his rotation. Since Larry Brown did not follow Hollinger?s plan, his latest starting five was: 1, Jamal Crawford; 2, Quentin Richardson; 3, Jalen Rose; 4, Maurice Taylor; 5, Eddy Curry.

FRONTCOURT
This latest game was a microcosm of the entire season. When Curry ran into early foul trouble, he was replaced with resident worst free-agent signing of the year champion, Jerome James. If Brown wanted to bring in more front-line support he called on Malik Rose?s number 13, which is actually higher than his PER 8.9. The ineffectual trio of Taylor, Rose, and James played 51 minutes, while David Lee played less than 1, Frye played only 19 and Curry 23.

Let?s first examine the difference in production between David Lee & Channing Frye versus Maurice Taylor & Malik Rose, assuming that any rational observer can agree that James should not be beating out Herb Williams for the back-up center spot, much less the promising Jackie Butler.

Taylor scores more than Lee, but does so at a less efficient rate with more turnovers and less rebounds. Moreover, Lee has an Assist Ratio twice as high. In fact, if Lee keeps up his 14.0 rate, it would qualify as top-ten among NBA power forwards. All that being said, Taylor is still a superior player to Malik Rose, who has the same rebounding problems, but with an altogether new level of offensive incompetence. He shoots a woeful TS % 42.5, which is almost as bad as Darko last year, who couldn?t get off the end of Brown?s bench despite his implicit connections to Eastern European mobsters. And while Rose is a far worse player than Taylor, Frye is a far superior player to Lee. In fact, Frye?s rookie PER of 19.9 ranks 30th in the league. With such strong production, he is qualified to be a starter on every team in this league with the possible exception of Brown?s old team the Pistons.

Last year, Michael Sweetney?s lack of playing time caused temper fits from Knick fans fluent in statistical evaluation of performance. This year Lee and Frye are d?j? vu all over again. Once again, the Knicks simply do not seem to understand what they have on their hands. The fact that Frye and Lee are rookies is simply irrelevant on a team that currently has the league?s worst record. They are already better than aging veterans who have no roles in the Knicks? future.

Using Curry and Frye as starters with Lee off the bench, the Knicks can employ a rotation in structure congruent with Brown?s last team, the Detroit Pistons, who start Rasheed and Ben Wallace, then bring in Antonio McDyess off the bench to play power forward, moving the remaining player to center. Since both Frye and Curry can play center, Lee can be used in this way at power forward, a more natural position for him than the awkward small forward, where his inaccurate jump shot was a liability. Lee shoots an astronomically high percentage from the floor, albeit in his limited minutes, and one would think putting him into the post will deter too much regression to the mean, as he can employ more of his around the basket moves and less 15-foot line drives off the side of the backboard.

Finally, if this rotation leaves any stray minutes, they should go to Butler. In a rebuilding team filled with talented and promising rookies, there is no place for Taylor and Rose.

BACKCOURT
Marbury?s absence gives this author a modicum of pleasure to see how important he was to the ?competitiveness? of the Knicks. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. His continued inactiveness presents considerable problems for the Knicks? rotation.

While Crawford is a no-brainer at the point, Hollinger prefers Trevor Ariza over Qyntel Woods even though the latter is experiencing a resurgence in his second chance opportunity. Woods 15.3 PER is very respectable and superior to Ariza?s 10.7 PER. Nonetheless, Ariza was a burgeoning perimeter stopper before he was lost in Brown?s doghouse. That Trevor does not get along better with the coach is unfortunate for the young player?s development.

Conversely, Brown is certainly giving QRich ample opportunity to prove himself now that he is back in the Knicks? rotation. Nonetheless with QRich collecting bricks like he’s starting a construction company, it would seem he would be a more prudent benching. Perhaps much of his struggles should be attributed to rust and injury, but no matter the reason he?s still stinking up the joint. It?s admirable that he?s playing with heart, but a healthy Ariza should be getting his minutes. Using Woods and J. Rose, who both have average PERs and alternating Ariza for defensive assignments seems a more prudent course than currently relying on QRich.

In only two games with the Knicks, it is clear that J. Rose should be the primary ball-handler whenever he is on the court. This should alleviate Crawford?s bad shot tendency and Robinson?s turnover rampage, both which are wrecking havoc to the Knicks? offense. Therefore if Marbury ever returns, there is optimism that Knicks will no longer have to employ either Robinson or Crawford at the point. Considering that Robinson is not yet a competent rotation player, using him in a more limited role will improve the Knicks? competitiveness. In Hollinger?s scenario he would only receive sparse minutes when Crawford is sent to the bench, for a more reasonable ten minutes of energy off the bench.

All three swing spots, sans Marbury, are average at best, or rather, at worst. There is not one among them that even posts a 16 PER, but neither are they below 14 PER. Having no open sores in your starting line-up is more than can be said for many other teams around the league. Once Marbury returns, the Knicks can go eight players deep ? Marbury, J. Rose, Woods, Crawford, Lee, Curry, Frye, and Butler ? who post average PER or better. Conceivably, by eliminating Robinson and Richardson from the rotation, if the Knicks employed this line-up for a full-season without starting the season 19 games under .500, it would be more than reasonable to expect competition for a playoff berth. But just as importantly it would allow their rookies to receive the playing time they need to develop.

61 comments on “Hollinger’s Knicks

  1. Marc R

    I noticed that the HoopsHype salaray figures don’t include Curry and seem to assume (incorrectly) that Frye, Robinson and Lee won’t be extended. Would the Knicks still be under the cap?

  2. Steve

    no. i don’t know the details of eddy’s deal, but i’m estimating around $10M for ’07. as it reads on hoopshype, NYK is right around the cap threshhold — and once you add in eddy’s money plus the lee, robinson, and frye team options, that puts them about $15M over. (not to mention, zeke is going to use the midlevel on someone this summer. that adds another $5M.)

    and, to sign a guy you don’t just need to by under the cap — you need to be under by the amount you want to sign the guy. so to sign a max guy, you need to be at least $10M under.

    the only way to get cap room is to trade marbury and either malik rose, crawford, Q, jerome james for expiring deals. marbury and craw have value, but the others are hard sells. it would be nice if zeke could just trade them to the knicks like every other team does with their bad contracts, but since zeke can’t make deals with himself, he’s out of luck.

    of course, someone made a good point earlier in a previous thread that the ability to sign a max guy is nice, but at this point i’d settle for just a little flexibility. as their salary structure exists now, it’s really hard to make a simple deal for a guy like earl watson.

  3. Steve

    this is all pointless speculation, though. zeke isn’t interested in managing the cap — he has his eyes on guys like miles and francis, who will never be building blocks on a championship team. the only hope is that he succeeds in acquiring these guys, LB starts and wins a power war, and dolan has the sense not to hire LB as GM, since he’s much too impetuous to do that job well.

    relying on dolan to have sense is a losing bet, of course. i’m depressing myself, so i’ll stop writing now.

  4. mase

    I dont agree with Hollinger. It seems like Hollinger’s approach to coaching is based too heavily on data and by not looking at situational matchups/adjustments that lead to in-game coaching decisions, he comes across as a sidline QB.
    Who is to say that Frye/Lee are starters in the N.B.A. today or 5 years from now? Brown’s approach is to have them master a certain role and by mastering these ‘assignments’ they are in effect proving they’re ability(its old school)…i.e. Ariza, Here is an example of a guy who can’t play in a half-court set yet thinks he is the next Kobe. Brown’s system has exploited his defencies.

  5. Ben

    Mase at the end of your post you state that Brown’s system has exploited Ariza’s deficiencies. Well right there you summed up exactly what Brown has been doing wrong. Instead of playing to the young players strenghs he has torn them down and started even more flawed vets. Is it not the coachs job to exploit the other teams deficiencies will covering up your own?

  6. Jim K

    I’m not trying to actively defend Q-Rich, but hasn’t he actually been playing pretty well the last 4 games or so as starter? Hasn’t he been shooting over 40% and rebounding well? I haven’t been paying so much attention to say this definitively, and even so I agree w/ everything said above, save that Q-Rich, if he’s somehow worked through his problems, could certainly offer something to the Knicks — in other words, and this is a big if, but if we figure out his value based on his career and write off the lousy first half, is he good enough to play ahead of Crawford or Rose at any level? Just wondering…

  7. Brian Cronin

    Man…Brown pisses me off so much sometimes.

    I mean, I get it – he has a system. If he has players who fit his system, his system works very well.

    However, if he DOESN’T…he is lost!

    How do you not play Lee and Frye?!!?

    ARGH!

    Actually, to add another stat to the mix. Channing Frye is now currently in the top ten in the NBA in plus/minus, as the Knicks are a net 13 points better/worse when Frye is involved!

    13 points!!!

    Lebron leads the league with a net 19!

  8. dave crockett

    Side note:

    I love Nate but Andre Igoudala got jobbed in last night’s dunk contest!! It should have ended in a tie or another dunk-off.

  9. Ted Nelson

    I can only hope that LB is exploiting his young players’ deficiencies in order to make them better players and a better team down the road. If he played to his players ?strengths? (?shooting, shooting, and sucking?) the Knicks might be competing for a playoff spot this year, but at what cost?
    By limiting a young guys minutes until he improves in the areas you ask it forces him to get better quickly or not play, thus giving you insight into his work ethic, character, and desire. (And for all of you talking about building a championship team: it ain?t gonna happen without any D or with Crawford and Marbury ?playing to their strengths? the way they did last season.)
    At the same time I hate nothing more than seeing JJ, Mo, and Malik playing over Frye, Butler, and Lee, but it?s hard not to trust LB given his track record. He got to where he is by demanding that his players “play the right way” and I would say there’s something to that because it’s only going to hurt you down the road to let them play the wrong way.

  10. J.Mannin

    In regards to the dunk contest, I believe Nate Robinson and Andre Iguodala did a phenomenal job. However, the controversial ending left many asking for a sudden death, or revised rules. Personally, i believe Igouddala pulled off two of the most original dunks in quite some time. Dont think Nate Robinson didnt do the same. His behind the back, between BOTH legs pass from HALF court to the backboard was completely circus. Propz to both of them. Given these circumsatnces, I don’t believe in trading Nate Robinson, or none of the rookies for the matter. Nate cannot play point guard, however, he leads rookies in treys. Furthermore,out of all the rookies selected for the rookie versus sophmore challenge jump-ball who did they select?? Perhaps Nate the Great didnt win the jump ball, but Larry should be paying close attention. If Nate can play shooting guard, and gets more lobs off the bench I believe his role would catch Larry’s and Isiah’s eyes as for what to do in the offseason. Nate, Curry, Lee, Frye, and J.Rose is a great team; argue with me if you must. Until Lee works on his perimeter shooting, replace him with Q.Rich for that and Defence

  11. Depressed Fan

    “Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch’entrate” is my new favorite phrase. In Italian it means “Abandon all hope you who enter”. You see it on the marquee before every Knicks game…

    Oh my bad its actually on the Gate of Hell in Dante’s Inferno. Really what’s the difference?

  12. Jesse

    I know Lee isn’t playing much, but Frye is getting serious rookie minutes. Only Paul is playing significantly more minutes as a rookie. IMO having Frye play like 30-25 minutes a game is a mistake.

  13. Erik

    I agree that Lee and Frye should play as much as possible, but should we re-visit the Sweetney thing? It’s not like he’s blown up with the Bulls and they’re trying to move him. He is what he is. Merely OK.

  14. dave crockett

    you know what i love/hate about the new york press? all year they’ve been in overdrive about isiah’s trades “past-their-prime vets at inflated prices.”

    yet, when it comes right down to it they support virtually every single trade at the time its made for a perceived upgrade. in the post–yeah, i know. it’s the post–they totally backed stevie franchise rumors until league GMs began to denounce it. how could anyone possibly want francis on this team?

  15. Ammad

    Francis on the Knicks makes no sense what so ever.

    Watson makes sense as that addresses a need.

    Build around the youth and let the contracts expire. Any contract that is longer than 3 years shouldn’t be put on this team.

    If Larry Brown now has Isiah’s ear and all of these players that are now going to be brought aboard are going to have Browns blessing then what does it say about Brown if Francis is on his way. Wow what a talent evaluator.

    Sheesh.

  16. mase

    i like the francis trade with Mo(except his expires next year) and Craw cuz neither contract is appealing to anyone enought to trade off and both guys seems not to fit in..i dont get what everyone is upset about this?

  17. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, I just saw that Marty Burns is now saying it is Crawford and Mo (and maybe Ariza) for Francis.

    THAT trade, I don’t know how you CAN turn down.

    It doesn’t even really add much salary, while ,at the same time, getting rid of Taylor (who Brown will keep playing over Lee and Butler).

    So I am all in favor of that deal.

    Which also leaves Penny’s contract available to get SOMEthing.

    All without trading Frye, Lee or Nate. I like it.

  18. Gorky

    But what good does Francis do? Isn’t he basically the same as Marbury, except even less of a point guard?

    We don’t want more people in the Francis/Marbury/Rose mold. At least Crawford caught fire once in a while.

  19. Brian Cronin

    Well, I think Francis is fairly similar to Crawford, only slightly better (for instance, Francis actually rebounds the ball).

    And while it isn’t ideal to have Francis…

    A. Getting rid of Taylor is addition by subtraction

    and

    B. Francis is more tradeable than Crawford is.

  20. greedy

    if this trade does go through, and penny is not included then isiah has done, finally a halfway decent job, if he can trade penny for another pick then isiah will have had a tremendous deadline. while francis is shorter than crawford , he rebounds better and there is no team in the leauge that can keep both marbury and franchise from getting into the lane. Thats alot of easy dumpoffs to curry. The key here is parlaying penny into a pick. With 3 picks this year and last year there might finally enough goods to land a legitimate big guard or small forward.

  21. greedy

    just because i like to be the first to relay information, realgm is reporting that the knicks are in serious discussions to get kevin garnett, giving up fyre and penny. holy shit.

  22. Gabe Farkas

    if the deal is as Brian Cronin is describing it, or close to it (without the Knicks giving up any picks), then it’s actually not so bad.

    We could then flip Francis (or trade Marbury) for some other nice pieces. that could turn into a real coup.

  23. dave crockett

    here are my issues with ANY francis deal.

    1. he is redundant – the notion that he’s a better version of crawford is less than compelling b/c even though francis’ strengths are superior he has identical weaknesses (i.e., turnovers, bad shots, no D). to the extent that he’s an improvement it’s an improvement in an area that won’t be all that impactful on the bottom line (at significantly higher cost).

    2. each trade should stand on its own – this notion that making one deal frees you to make another is the classic layden fallacy. (remember how trading for glen rice was going to get us mutumbo?) if deal A makes little sense until after deal B (which is totally unrelated) is completed it’s fool’s gold. it’s hard enough to get one deal done, once you start adding contingencies things quickly get unwieldy.

  24. Steve

    my one question is this: with all this dealing, will the knicks still have the assets needed to acquire raef lafrentz?

    and, if so, will they be able to lure shawn kemp?

  25. Ammad

    Out of all of the trade possibilities to get Francis we go out and do the worst one out of them all.

    Hardaway and Ariza for Francis is a done deal.

    Terrible deal in my opinion.

    This is all Larry Brown who wanted this trade.

    At least rid yourself of Crawford and Taylor and Ariza.

    This gets rid of the Garnett possibilities and the Harrington possibilities even in the off season imo.

    Horrible !

  26. McDaddy11

    Now this is officialy the worst team ever! I was scared zeke would try to get A.Walker, but this is even worse. God help us now!

  27. Ted Nelson

    Well, give Isiah credit for one thing: he hasn’t changed his approach from day one.

    Some would argue that if your team is 15-infinite you should change it up a little, but what do they know?

  28. stacks

    what effects does this trade have on moves trying to get Garnett? Check this report:

    Is KG Heading To New York?
    Feb 22 – Web site RealGM, is reporting that New York and Minnesota are in serious discussions about a deal which would send Kevin Garnett to the Knicks in exchange for Penny Hardaway and Channing Frye.

    I thought Frye was ‘untradeable’. I like what KG could bring to this squad, some defense and he makes people better…but he won’t get the ball with Franch and Steph in the backcourt…

    Thoughts?

  29. John

    I guess the starting five will be Marbury, Francis, Rose, Taylor, and Curry with Crawford coming off the bench. I would have thought that Orlando would rather have Crawford than Ariza, but it looks like they’re trying to clear out cap space for ’07. These are going to be some interesting games to watch. If I were Brown, I might run the offense through Rose at the point, with Marbury and Francis on the wings as a threat for double penetration (sorry, I couldn’t resist). In any case, LB will have his hands full.

  30. Young T

    I think if Isiah could’ve done KG he would have; I don’t think Minny would deal him for Craw and Mo – no real cap relief and hence not really rebuilding. So to me, it looks like KG is off – K-Mart maybe not – Nuggets need an SG and K-Mart aint fitting in right now…

    I don’t see how everyone is condemning this already – we needed to do something, Stevie is an All-Star talent, Penny wasnt even playing, Ariza – well he’s ok but Larry clearly doesnt like him…so how is this bad? If KG was out of the question, then its a good deal – not subtraction by addition as some of you are suggesting.

  31. Steve

    has there ever been a more ill-fitting backcourt than marbury, francis, nate, crawford, and Q?

    LB might prove me wrong, but i don’t see how any coach in the world could make this bunch work.

    i gotta admit, i’m glad this deal went down. if you’re going to lose, at least do it with apocalyptic style. those layden years of eisley and ward were just brutal.

  32. Steve

    next question (not sarcastic or rhetorical this time): does LB have the guts to do what’s right for this group?

    he’s gonna have to face two facts: 1) the knicks will be better if Q starts and francis comes off the bench, and 2) NYK moves to an up-tempo style.

    name one player besides eddy (steph is fine, but he’s better up-and-down) who is a strong halfcourt offensive player? and more importantly, name one rotation guy (malik rose doesn’t count) who plays solid halfcourt defense?

    maybe zeke will go get ratliff now, i don’t know. but having marbury and francis defending the perimeter, with no shotblocker behind them . . .

    this is the craziest team any GM could have created! i can’t wait to see how this plays out!

  33. Count Zero

    I can’t believe they picked up Francis…why, oh why do we want another “shoot first” PG? Unless Marbury actually has a career-threatening injury, this makes about as much sense as…as…I’m at a loss for a suitable simile.

    I’m beginning to believe we are destined to employ the dumbest front office in all of sports. A couple more of these and I might actually start pining for Layden. I just want to know who thought this was a good idea — Zeke or Larry?

    Thank God spring training is under way…

  34. Gorky

    I was about to agree with the posts here that said, “Getting rid of Mo Taylor is good” and “Francis is a better version of Crawford” and “If Penny isn’t traded, then this would be a good deal.”

    Then, Isiah must have read them and decided that no, he cannot ever do a good deal. The only thing left now is to enjoy the sectacle of Francis and Marbury playing together.

  35. Nathan

    You’ve got to hand it to Zeke: He’s a wizard at getting talent. Maybe it doesn’t fit together, but this Knicks team is full of good players. Marbury, Francis, Jalen Rose, Frye, Curry, NRob, QRich, Crawford, David Lee, and Butler are all very talented players, and the Knicks have an excellent coach. And honestly, who complains about an expiring scrub and Trevor Ariza for THE FRANCHISE? This team is awesome! Also, coming soon: Kenyon Martin and Earl Watson! Good lord, what a team!

  36. Brian Cronin

    Someone must have made Orlando a better offer, forcing the Knicks to up the ante.

    And, for Orlando, Penny/Ariza IS a better deal than Crawford/Taylor.

    Now?

    Well, now the Knicks are basically screwed. Unless, as someone mentioned, Marbury really IS badly injured, in which case Francis fits in well as a Marbury replacement.

    Otherwise….this just doesn’t make any sense, because Crawford and Taylor ain’t getting you anyone ELSE of use, except maybe Martin and Watson, in which case, I repeat, Crawford and Taylor ain’t getting you anyone else of use.

  37. NGLI

    In principle, Isiah could get another maxed-out player for Francis or Marbury.

    In principle, aquiring decent trade pieces should lead to a nice offseason move for two or three players that could balance out the roster.

    If not, the Knicks will be the best team with 25 wins in NBA Live ’07. ^_^

    This trade could work out to be a huge steal. Even if they both break plays and shoot too much, they put up better numbers with a better FG% than anyone else on the Knicks. It would make my day if LB stopped running 2/3 of the plays for that big bum Curry, and let Steph/Francis take 2/3 the shots. Yeah yeah they?re both overrated. So what. They know how to put the ball in the hoop, quite efficiently, I might add. And they?re both fun to watch.

    This trade could actually make LB get his head on straight; with the addition of Francis, the Knicks now have two franchise players in the backcourt demanding minutes. Good. LB can?t keep shuffling the rotations.

    Role definition/rotations will be so much easier:

    PG: MARBURY/Francis, SG: FRANCIS/Crawford, SF: ROSE/Woods/Lee, PF: FRYE/Taylor/Lee, C: CURRY/Frye.

    That?s 9 players. Dammit, LB.

    When Steph goes out of the game, slide Francis to the PG and put Crawford in. Leave Nate on the bench where he belongs. Give him Darko-victory-cigar minutes with Crawford at the 2. You don?t need more than three combo guards, that?s the beauty of it. They’re all capable of playing ~45 minutes a night, so LB will have no excuse to stop f–king around.

    Also, putting Francis at the 2 spot could be the best thing for him at this point in his career. He’s always been a great dunker/scorer/rebounder, but I’ve always thought his point guard skills were super over-rated. What is it, like a 1.5 assists a turnover or something?

    Francis is simply more interested in scoring than he is in running the team properly. However, tell him to score more, and you know, he?ll do it better than anyone else than Marbury. Steph will continue to develop his shoot/pass IQ under LB, so you know, it could be worse…

  38. Steve

    time to trade nate? doesn’t appear to be any minutes for him in the next three years, even if crawford gets dealt.

    his value will never be higher than right now.

  39. Brian Cronin

    My word is “could,” which is appropriate, as this move COULD turn out decently.

    I really think the Knicks need one more deal.

    However, everyone note today’s playing time splits?

    David Lee didn’t play at ALL until the Knicks were down about 27 points.

    At that time, Taylor had played 18 minutes, Rose 13, Butler 0.

    Dammit, Larry, this just doesn’t make sense!!!

  40. Brian Cronin

    Just for the record, the only deal that is still available that could even POSSIBLY get Garnett would be Crawford, Taylor, Frye (and now, we’d probably have to toss in Lee).

  41. NGLI

    The Knicks are in great shape to make one more blockbuster trade. Of course, Garnett would be the top pick, but just to throw it out there, I’m going with Paul Pierce.

  42. NGLI

    You know, I just had a thought… With this roster, the first thing to go should be Larry Brown. Beg Flip Saunders to trade jobs with Mr. Anal. Then we’ll all be happy… ^_^

  43. Brian Cronin

    And what I hate is the whole idea that, to say that you don’t like Larry Brown coaching this team is to say that Brown is not a good coach.

    Him being a good coach has nothing to do with whether he is the right coach for this team.

    The only way this assortment of players can succeed is if they push the ball up court and maximize pace.

    Larry HAS caved in a BIT, as the Knicks’ pace factor is not at the bottom of the league, but it’s way too low for these players.

    It is so sad when I can honestly say that I’d prefer Herb Williams to be coaching this team over Larry Brown.

  44. Steve

    ditto.

    LB is a great coach, but he wasn’t right for the olympic team and he’s not right for NYK ’06.

    but zeke keeps saying he’s building around the coach, so he ain’t going anywhere.

    can’t believe he signed off on the rose and francis deals.

    my favorite line from this thread used to be NGLI’s “Dammit, LB”, until Brian Cronin dropped, “Dammit, Larry, this just doesn?t make sense!!!” The guy is really really frustrating while he’s putting his program into place.

    my fav

  45. Brian Cronin

    By the by, RealGM linked to a NY Times article that made a lot of sense, which stated that the Knicks are more likely to wait until the summer to make their blockbuster deal.

    I buy that, as it will give them time to determine whether they have to trade Marbury or Francis, and which wing player has to be moved.

    In addition, Mo Taylor and Jalen Rose will both have the glorious “expiring contract” glow about them, making it easier to get a good deal done.

    Mo Taylor and Jalen Rose combined are worth a staggering $26.7 MILLION dollars next year.

  46. NGLI

    I think Zeke is too attatched to Marbury to let him go, and he’s a more natural fit at the PG position than Stevie Franchise. Don’t get too worried about chemistry issues, the season’s screwed, and Francis very well be the trade chip that the Knicks needed to fix their roster. In the meanwhile, lets all sit back and watch LB’s blood pressure elevate until he has a stroke on court. Enjoy!

  47. Dave

    Breaking news: over at the APBRmetrics discussion board someone has discovered that Zeke and Francis are about as similar as 2 players can get. And Zeke won TWO rings with that slouch Joe Dumars next to him!!

  48. NGLI

    Taylor and Rose… This will go down as the deal that f–ked over the Knicks for years to come. Nobody wants those overpaid motherf–kers: so many $’s, so little return. Needless to say, Rose is going to be a headache to move. At least Taylor has some value to the team, right now…and STILL. 9+ million is no joke to move. Fugghetaboutit, Taylor’s a Knick.

    With LB trying to play M. Rose at the three spot and with his small build and slow feet, I say pleaaaaaaase trade him for Darko for God’s sake…

    Sorry, but we’re stuck with both of them until their contracts run out…

  49. Ernie

    Taylor/Crawford/Robinson for Watson/K-Mart – works – Nuggets save cap as Taylor/Robinson come off end next season, K-Mart’s contract is worse than JC, Nuggets need an SG – gives the Knicks in the paint defence and a pass-first guard.

    I’d pull the trig on this one…

  50. dave crockett

    reports surfacing now that denver/seattle/portland have made a move involving earl watson (seattle) and ruben patterson (denver) as principles. details as they emerge…

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