Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, September 30, 2014

Hollinger: Trade Frye… But for Whom?

In Hollinger’s latest piece at the NY Sun he lays out New York’s four major needs for at the deadline. They are (in order of appearance): 1. a true point guard (rather than four short wing players), 2. a decent long range shooter, 3. a (man-to-man) defensive stopper on the wing, and 4. a defensive-oriented power forward. To be fair, Hollinger is up front about the fact that he’s ignoring, for the sake of argument, some practical realities; namely that Dolan’s checkbook may now be locked in an Isiah-proof vault, and that Isiah himself may be unwilling to part with some of the big-$ players he’s acquired.

Disclosure: I should admit right away that, although I have great respect for his work, I often find myself on opposing sides of issues with Hollinger; having to do more with his rhetoric than his stats. I’m one who believes strongly that the data NEVER speak for themselves; someone must speak for them. Consequently, the spokesperson’s interpretation of the data can be debatable even when the data are, technically speaking, correct.

In his latest piece, Hollinger commits an interesting (bordering on bizarre) act of rhetoric. My purpose in writing is less to criticize Hollinger than to register my head-scratching bewilderment with the way he argues his conclusion. At the end of the article he writes that the Knicks need to pair Curry with a more defense-oriented PF–a point I agree with in principle. He goes on to suggest that Isiah should look to move Channing Frye for such a player. Hollinger does not suggest this lightly. It’s clear from this and previous writings that Hollinger is a fan of Frye’s. I too am a fan, having followed Frye since his freshman season at Arizona. Nonetheless, I generally accept Hollinger’s conclusion that if the Knicks are serious about making Curry the centerpiece they must seriously contemplate moving Frye to obtain players that better fit a low-post offense.

Here’s where I thought Hollinger displays a rhetorical sleight of hand that is quizzical, for lack of a better word. Throughout the article, he makes insightful suggestions for low-cost moves the Knicks might make to address each of the first three needs. He suggests that deals for imminently acquirable players, like Tyron Lue, Travis Deiner, or Keith Bogans, could be an inexpensive means to address the needs for a stop-gap point guard, deep shooter, or man-to-man wing defender. These are all players who could replace someone in the rotation without throwing everything out of whack. Yet Hollinger is oddly silent on suggestions for a defense-first power forward, which he identifies as “clearly the greatest” team need. He offers only that a package of Rose (essentially Rose’s contract) and Frye could bring back “something good.”

I beg your pardon, but, something good like what?

I am not adamantly opposed to moving Frye. David Lee’s own defensive shortcomings notwithstanding, Frye doesn’t defend well and he may never. He also seems better suited to a screen-roll oriented offense like Utah’s. So a reasonable, even compelling case could be made to move Frye for a defensive PF that helps long-term. So why not make that case, especially if it is the team’s greatest need by far? Good defensive power-forwards, let alone those who can also hit a 15-18 foot jumper, are the NBA’s version of lefty starting pitchers that can throw 200+ innings. Everybody needs one; there simply aren’t enough to go around; and nobody’s giving them away. So if he had something in mind about how to get one I’d have loved to have read about it. Instead he spends a good chunk of the column making a reasonable argument for acquiring Tyron Lue.

132 comments on “Hollinger: Trade Frye… But for Whom?

  1. Dan Panorama

    I had the same thought watching Jerome James start – “well if we need a defensive presence next to Curry why don’t we trade Frye and one of these guards for someone who does that and isn’t Jerome James?” But I can’t think of anyone who fits the bill – any ideas out there guys? My hope would be that the Bobcats decide they can’t afford Okafor when his rookie contract expires and he demands a sign-and-trade to New York.

  2. DMull

    No shot we get Okafor but wow, that would be amazing.

    I’ve always liked Frye but I never understood why people were afraid to trade him. I think you know what you’re going to get from him…I wouldn’t just give him away, but I’m all for trading him for a defensive minded PF of equal value.

    1. Defensive PF
    2. Perimeter defender
    3. Outside Shooter
    4. Pure Point Guard

    that’s the order I’d put his “4 needs” in.

  3. Adam

    It takes young guys a few years to learn defense. Unless a great offer comes along, I’d rather stick with our big men and teach defense.

  4. jon abbey

    hey, that jon abbey above isn’t me, can a moderator please delete that?

    Frye clearly is the main trade chip, but I’d take my chances with David Lee at PF for now, and see how his D develops.

    “1. Defensive PF
    2. Perimeter defender
    3. Outside Shooter
    4. Pure Point Guard

    that?s the order I?d put his ?4 needs? in.”

    ha, I’d put those in reverse order (having not read the article yet, my Hollinger tolerance is generally extremely low). they already have the perimeter defender in Balkman, and I’d give Lee a chance to become the defensive PF.

  5. Matt

    Some thoughts:

    The needs are the same no matter what order you put them in, and you aren’t going to fix them in this trade season. A longer view (sorry, Zeke) is to reduce impediments to roster flexibility. By this, I mean get rid of a guard or two. I’d like to see Francis and Robinson gone, personally. That way, you might be able to snag Acie Law in the draft and have the minutes available to play him.

  6. STEVE

    Hollinger must have slept with Bill James’ Baseball Abstract when he was a kid. If he ever actually played Basketball on any level, he would know the must critical, the most elusive aspect in the game is chemistry. Unlike baseball, where 7 guys stand around while the pitcher and catcher can dominate the play, Basketball revolves around 5 players playing as a unit on both ends of the floor. If it was so easy to win a title, every team would have done it with the resources available. Thats why we watch the playoffs, to see some “star” tank while some bench player plays the game of his life. Happens every year.
    His stats bore me, unless you play fantasy basketball. Basketball is the ultimate team game, I don’t care what your “PER” ranking is, if you dont understand the nuances of team play, you’re on the outside looking in. I strongly urge everyone to read Clyde Frazier’s book, “the game within the game”, as one of the greatest team players of all time shreds the facade of stats and talks about how great TEAMS play and win.

  7. Tom

    Kenny Thomas isn’t particularly athletic and he’s not an elite post defender, but he rebounds well and can stand up most non-elite 4s. Want him? Frye and Rose will be more than enough, thanks.

  8. Matthew

    Same boat here with Hollinger. Sometimes he states his opinions a little too much matter-of-fact, and treats his statistical analysis as though he’s merely reporting “facts” from the stats, and not doing interpreting himself. Statistics are just data, everything after that is human interpretation.

  9. RKade32

    I think we should give Lee and Frye more time to develop into that defensive power forward role. They clearly both have strengths (Frye – overall offense, jumpshot; Lee – rebounding and putbacks) other than defense, but don’t forget how much Lee improved from last season to this season. It’s not crazy to think that he can continue to improve defensively just as he has as a rebounder and free-throw shooter. Frye might also improve – don’t forget that he’s only played in 104 NBA games so far. I think it’s too early to pin him as a defenseive liability and trade him. I mean, do you honestly trust Isiah when it comes to trading young talent? He gave away Ariza and landed us with Steve Francis and his awful contract. I think we should stick with our guns and let the young players improve. This is not a team that is a couple of moves away from winning a championship – it’s a team that’s a couple of years away from even thinking about contending for one.

  10. mase

    “I think the knicks should trade Frye, Curry, and Lee for Nolan Ryan and Wade Boggs.”
    funny.

    So according to Hollinger the Knicks need a lot…
    I agree about the ‘wing defender’(different than perimeter defender?), the true point guard is no revelation as is the defensive PF

  11. RKade32

    Kenny Thomas! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! He’s another one of those Clarence Weatherspoon, Othella Harrington-types that got this whole mess started 5 years ago. Stay away!

  12. Alex

    Okafor and Bosh are the only power forwards that come to mind. In 3 years when all the expirings happen I would want someone of this caliber instead of going crazy on Lebron. King James will probably be part owner of the knicks if he decides he wants to come to NY. As much as I crinch to say this I hope a trade does happen.

  13. Ben

    I believe that we have a good defensive PF already on out team. His name is Jared Jeffries. He is a good defender at the PF position, often defending Jamison’s man when he was in Washington. Also while playing PF his offensive shortcomings would be minimized because he is inside rather than on the perimeter.

    So that just leaves backup PG, wing defender and outside shooter. We ned to get players that fill more than one need so a backup PG who can hit the outside shot and a wing defender who can also hit the outside shot.

    Lue would be a great fit. At the wing position I would love to see Childress. In fact if we trade them Frye and one of our many combo guards, we could get Lue and Childress and solve almost all of our problems.

  14. Choi cHoi

    i wouldnt want to loose fye, he is getting better as the season progresses. he has a great work ethic and he is young. when you have a player so early in their career it would be best to teach them and use them for their capablities. he has potential as well as nate, lee, and balkman. the team is a great team and all they need to do is just polish their defense and offensive awareness.

  15. RKade32

    “the team is a great team and all they need to do is just polish their defense and offensive awareness”

    Isiah, is that you? Though I agree that we should hang onto Frye unless the right deal comes along, I would never call this team a great team, haha.

  16. dave crockett

    My sticking point is that any deal involving Frye that would bring the Knicks something they need, if not equal value, certainly isn’t obvious. That’s probably why Hollinger doesn’t specify one.

    What left me scratching my head is that it would have been just as easy for him to say, “finding a defensive PF is a long-term project the Knicks will probably need to investigate in the off-season regardless of who is in the front office.”

    The other moves he suggested are of the types we usually see at the deadline. Of course the problem, particularly in the East is that everybody’s still in it. If NY, at 8 games under .500, is still buying then the market is likely flooded with buyers.

  17. TDM

    I also like Frye and think we should attempt to develop him into a better defensive PF, unless a deal comes along that is too good to pass on. That said, if we could get a defensive PF without trading Frye, are there any out there that may be expendable from their current teams? Someone like Reggie Evans for his rebounding, or Travis Outlaw with his blocking skills? I don’t know if they would be available, but Evans is a worker and Outlaw is young and athletic (something Isiah covets).

    With regard to a true point guard, how about picking up Frank Williams – someone that has been mentioned on this board several times. He’s having a pretty good season in the NBDL.

  18. Knickerblogger

    “Hollinger must have slept with Bill James? Baseball Abstract when he was a kid. If he ever actually played Basketball on any level…”

    Comments on this level are really juvenile. If this person really read the article, he’d know that John doesn’t mention many (if any) stats and talks about the Knicks from a viewer’s perspective.

  19. Ben

    Evans is not really a very good defender. Like Lee he fools people into thinking he he a good defender because he is a rugged rebounder but in reality he is not much better of a defender than Lee and in a year or so Lee should be better.

    Also I live in Portland and Outlaw is a SF and a poor defender anyway. In fact it is his lack of defense that keeps him from playing a major role in Portland.

  20. jon abbey

    “If this person really read the article, he?d know that John doesn?t mention many (if any) stats and talks about the Knicks from a viewer?s perspective.”

    in this article he does, but his ESPN commentary is one hundred percent stat-driven, and it’s a stat that doesn’t take defense into account (PER). his columns there are generally infuriating, this one is surprisingly rational.

  21. Knickerblogger

    Just one thing. If you’re going to criticize Hollinger, have the courtesy of reading the article first. He doesn’t use his PER or any other stat except when talking about an outside shooter (3p%). And he does mention Jeffries as an offensive liability (and not a good man-man defender.)

    Also, please talk about things specific to the article. If you want to burn Hollinger in effigy over PER or anything else, there are plenty of message boards to do so.

  22. Dan Panorama

    Is Childress a good defender? On paper he sounds like an awesome, young all-around talent and Atlanta has a big glut of swingmen, but stats can be tough in determining defense.

  23. Jay G.

    dan…i wont pretend to be an authority on childress’es defense since i have seen him play maybe once this year. but i would be willing to bet that his defense is not significantly better, or possibly even worse, than balkmans. im not into trading for guys like keith bogans or childress when we have a guy who would be capable enough in a defense oriented role.

    i feel like ray allen would change this team immeasurably…if crawford and frye gets it done id pull the trigger…his offense + curry would mesh well (theoretically) and lessen the need for offense from the other 3 positions

  24. Ben

    I have not watched a ton of Atlanta games but of the ones I’ve watched Childress does seem to be a very good defender. Though I do not put a ton of stock in +/- ratings the Hawks are 6.2 points better on defense when Childress is on the floor. I do not know if he is great but he really seems to be Atlanta’s best defensive player. Plus on offense he is really efficient. He has an efg% of 55% shoots over 40% from 3pt land and rarely turns the ball over.

    But in Atlanta I believe he is their fourth most valuable swingman. Johnson is their franchise player, Smith is their budding star and Marvin Williams was the #2 pick last year so I do not believe they are giving up on him any time soon.

  25. Ben

    Sorry to post twice.

    Jay G. – Balkman seems like he will be a very good defender. It is very possible that he will one day be a defensive stopper. The problem is as long as he cannot hit an outside shot he is a player that will need to come off the bench.

    We need our wingmen to be able to hit the 3 point shot with percentages in the high thirties because we need to stretch defenses to be able to keep teams from collasping on Curry.

  26. Jay G.

    ben i agree with you. without checkin stats (so i could easily be wrong) does keith bogans bring the additional element of consistent 3 point shooting? does childress? i just feel like these guys sound like great additions until they are actually on your team, and then ty lue is your point guard and keith bogans is your small forward and youre left to wonder how you convinced yourself trading a valuable asset (frye) for seemingly average players could have been a good idea in the first place.

    also, and this is again without having even seen any knicks basketball in the last month, watching balkman early on, he seems to have a knack (a la david lee) for doing disruptive (defensively) and helpful (offensively) things during the course of hte game. clearly he is raw and woulndt be ready to play 40 mins a game yet but he appeared to have a sixth sense when it comes to doing little things.

  27. nesta

    “they already have the perimeter defender in Balkman”

    I really like Balkman. I think he’s a good team defender and our only defensive playmaker. But I’m not convinced that he’s a one-on-one, shut-you-down perimeter defender. I’m sure most of you have watched more than me though. Am I wrong? Can he become that?

  28. Ben

    I do not think anyone would suggest trading Frye for Bogans or Lue. Bogans is a pretty good 3pt shooter but I actually do not think that Bogans would be a great fit because he is only 6’4 and would have a hard time guarding bigger wingmen.

    I think that if we trade Frye it has to be for an equally young player that has a similar amount of upside. That is why I suggested Childress he is a young up and coming SF who has alot of value but is on an Atlanta team that has a glut of young valuable wingmen.

    Childress is a 40%+ 3pt shooter the last two years and Lue is also a high percentage 3pt shooter, over 38% for his career. Both are good defenders.

  29. KnickerBlogger

    The one reason I would trade Frye is due to his mentalitly. Don’t get me wrong, he’s ferocious in summer league and has a tiny bit of a mean streak to him. However he has this deer-in-the-headlights look to him from time to time. I can understand if he’s a rookie, but he’s been starting just about all year and he still passes on wide open shots every now & then. I’m afraid he’ll go Nick Anderson (missed 4 straight free throws in the Finals, and two years later lost his ability to shot free throws), and if that ever happens you’ve got zip on your hands.

    Does anyone else feel this way? Has anyone else watched a ton of games & see this lack of confidence in Frye?

  30. Ben

    I agree he does seem a bit fragile. But I do believe that if he was on a team and given the oppertunity to really be the man down low he would flourish. Right now he knows he is the third best bigman on the Knicks and I think it makes him play a little tight.

    We need to trade him soon because his role on our team is shrnking and as he loses playing time his value will decrease.

  31. RKade32

    I know what you mean; I’ve seen that lack of confidence at times with him – my hope is that with more experience and a more defined role on the team (i.e. starter or bench player), Frye will drop the “deer-in-the-headlights” thing. I think it’s too early to trade him away for a guy in the Josh Childress level (I mean, really, Childress?) when Frye has height, talent, and a drive to get better.

  32. KD

    John, you have to name names. You have to. It leaves the reader with the feeling that you tried to come up with that mythical defensive 4 who can move his feet and create spacing, and couldn’t find anyone.

    Say what you want about Chad Ford, and I say a lot, but he leaves himself open for (usually deserved) ridicule by naming names in trade suggestions. That’s what you have to do.

  33. TDM

    KB: I have seen that look. I’ve been hoping that it has something to do with him not performing as well this year as he did last year. I’m hoping that next year, his confidence will grow. It appears that he second-guesses himself when he’s on the floor. In the ORL game, he had a couple good strong moves to the hoop, but other times, he passes the ball out instead of trying to draw the foul. Not a bad thing necessarily, but something I noticed as well.

  34. Matthew

    What’s wrong with Josh Childress? I think he’s better than Frye, as of now, and is the same age.

  35. DMull

    I would love to get Childress.

    I agree on Frye. When he’s hot he seems to have a lot of confidence shooting the ball…but when he’s not feeling it as much he seems tentative.

  36. TDM

    I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m incorrect, but isn’t Childress a shooting guard? And even if he is 6’8″ and can play SF, how would he be any better than Q, injuries aside? Childress was a great college player, and has had a decent pro career on a lousy team, but does anyone really think he would be the missing piece?

  37. Ken "The Animal" Bannister

    I’ll name names, Hollinger…HUAC be damned!

    NY Trades

    F David Lee
    PF Channing Frye
    G Nate Robinson

    CHARLOTTE Trades
    PF/C Emeka Okafor
    and the right too swap picks in this year’s draft.

    Or, the ultimate do-over trade….

    NY Trades
    C Eddy Curry

    CHICAGO Trades
    PF PJ Brown
    PF Tyrus Thomas
    and relinquishes the right to switch picks in this year’s draft.

    IF Chicago can’t pluck Gasol from the Griz, I’d get Paxson on the blower and see if in fact he did say, “No backsies”.

    In all honesty, I’d rather trade Eddy Curry when is stock is at an all-time high (aka now) and have Frye/Lee playing fulltime. Call me crazy.

  38. illmatic

    childress has the funniest shooting stroke in the nba. I dont think he will ever be a great DEPENDABLE shooter from long-range.

  39. Jay G.

    tdm….i guess its a matter of semantics btw sg and sf , but more importantly, he is a wing player, and a tall and lanky one at that. im not convinced he possesses a skill or combination of skills that we dont already have in a similar capacity on our roster.

  40. Seth

    I dunno…I think the best move regarding Frye would be to hire Oakley or Ewing as an assistant coach or something. Even with the deer-in-the-headlights look, he’s got boatloads of talent and a good personality. Let’s not forget, either, that he’s only in his second year in the league. Why not invest in developing his game?

    I think making a patch-up deal everytime there’s an issue isn’t wise in the long run (and might be Isiah’s greatest downfall). I’d love to see the organization put some effort into growing a team. Chan could certainly have a role in a solid franchise.

  41. Amir

    @ KNICKERBLOGGER,

    I actually posted the exact same comment on an aol message boards, about how Frye is like a deer in the headlights. I for one, don’t think that he will ever become a better defensive player. It’s not a skill set that is taught, but inherent. I’ve been wanting a Frye trade forever now. It is quite obvious that he needs to go. Too mant times I’ve watched this team winning a game until Frye comes in and causes a huge run against us and even losses.

  42. confucius

    Owe how quickly we forget. Consider this. Channing Frye was hurt for most of last year so he is not really second year player. While healthy Frye had a good chance of winning rookie of the year. I would give him 3 years to develop ( Jermaine O’Neal took 4 years ) before I consider trading Frye, because he has potentital. Although I love David Lee I do not know how much of an upside he has.

    Haivng said that, the Knicks should move either Frye or Lee. The trade for Ray Allen is solid trade because he is a pretty good defender. Having Ray Allen and Q in the same lineup is awesome. Both are solid defensively, and have the ability to stretch defenses. I would keep Jamaal if I could and bring him off the bench. the trade would end up being

    NY sends
    Frye/ Lee
    Francis/Nate
    Rose

    Seatlle Sends
    Ray Allen

    Another option is like is Portland’s Zach Randolph.

    Or my longshot.

    Trade Frye to Memphis for their number one pick. With that pick they should try to get Kevin Durant or James Olden.

    Yes I am wishing and hoping.

  43. Dan Panorama

    Frye’s confidence has been low at tims this year but the last few weeks he’s been unhesitatingly jacking up that 18 footer and hitting it at an increasingly consistent rate. There have been rare moments where his defense has even looked half-decent and I’m pretty confident it’s an area he could improve on with practice and some added muscle.

    But it sounds like the only player really worth trading him for is the lock-down defender or the big defense-minded 4 and these guys barely exist. Those that want a pass first PG are forgetting something big – we have Marbury sitting around and we ain’t getting rid of him any time soon.

  44. DMull

    Umm no team with a chance at the #1 is trading that chance for Channing Frye.

    I’d do that Ray Allen trade with Frye not Lee, but I’m not so sure Seattle would.

  45. nesta

    Why are they making this big deal out of “Lawler’s Law”? The team that’s winning near the end of the game usually wins the game? No fucking shit?!?!?! Genius!

  46. Ben

    I think we need a backup point. Marbury is doing a fine job but we really have no one who can successfully run the offense when he sits. Maybe Francis can do that but I find it hard to believe that he would be willing to play 20 minutes in a back up role for the next two and a half years.

    The reason we should trade Frye now is because he has no role on this team. Lee has replaced him as second most important big man. In the near future we will be seeing a Curry/Lee frontcourt playing 74+ minutes a game. When that happens our back up big will be simply a role player. I personally think the combo of Jeffries and James could fill that role but that is neither here nor there. Either way it is too small of a role for a promising young player like Frye.

    So we need to trade Frye for a starting SF or SG to pair with Q and provide solid perimeter defense and consistant outside shooting.

    I think Childress could provide that but there are many other players that would work as well; Granger, Battier, Bell, Posey, Nocioni, Mo Pete, etc. I am not saying all of these players are as valuable as Frye so in those cases we would have to get more like another young player or a pick. I am just saying these are the type of players we need.

    My best case would be to pry Battier with Sura’s expiring contract from Houston for maybe Frye and Crawford. Battier by the way is an amazing role player and is grossly underated in the NBA.

    Getting any of these players would make the Knicks more consistant and better on both offense and defense.

  47. Hudson River

    Greg Oden?

    1. (PG)Marbury is playing well at point, rather than thinking about this theoretically or even statistically watch the games and see the offense flowing.
    2.(Perimenter Defender) Balkman has the length, the drive, and the athletiscism, and hes a rookie and doing a good job now. Q is also playing well
    3. (Shooter) I don’t think this is nearly as much of an issue as people say it is, Q, Jamal, Nate, those are all good shooters, better on paper than in games but still solid
    4. (Defensive PF) Lets trade all our young talent for guys who seem to be working in their respective locations.

    The Knicks need that special something that helps good teams win games. The Mavs have it without a true point guard, the Suns have it without a good PF/C defender (Shawn Marion but he plays perimeter),the Jazz have it without a shooter, the Cavs almost have it without a perimeter defender (Larry Hughes is terrible. That special something is commitment to defense, unselfishness, and simply better coaching. If only Larry Brown had worked out…

  48. jon abbey

    nice win, that offensive execution on the consecutive threes late by the unit of Curry/Frye/Lee/Q/Crawford was beautiful to see. also good to see Steph come back from being totally abused by Livingston in the first half, dude had more interceptions than Asante Samuel.

    I think NY has all the potential pieces for improvement on board, maybe we can tinker in the offseason once we find out where we stand. the first rounder from Chicago should be a solid player, sadly this draft will be pretty thin on PGs. we can look for a Steve Blake type with the midcap or part of it. maybe Mardy Collins can develop, although I’ve seen no signs of that in his brief time. in the meantime, I like Jamal playing backup PG, Balkman and Q can play backup SG.

    Oden/Durant chances: the only way we’ve got a shot is if they decide to stay in school (possible for Oden, we’ll see), so root for Ohio St. and Texas to go out in the first round of the NCAAs. also if Chicago and NY both miss the playoffs and end up 1/2 in the lottery and both players declare, we’d get one, but I wouldn’t hold my breath there.

    two in a row! first time we’ve been able to say that in a while, off to the West Coast…

  49. Dan

    I think a Renaldo Balkman who stops committing as many personal fouls may be our PF or SF defender next year. Last I checked, he led the team in both blocks and steals per minute. He is also 2nd to David Lee in rebounding rate. He does foul a lot more than the other guys, but it’s only a matter of time before he learns what he can get away with in the NBA. This is a guy that I certainly wish we’d see more of.

    Another argument can be made that he’s a liability on the offensive end. However, he does finish nicely around the basket. Any thoughts?

  50. Dan Panorama

    Dan – that big lineup was awesome. I definitely hope we can see some more of that in the future.

    Man Isiah is getting to be quite the mad scientist these days – starting James for two games straight then pulling him to the bench and then later playing a 4 forward lineup for an extended stretch. I kind of wonder where it all ends up.

  51. Stephen

    A power forward who fits Hollinger’s description and who could be traded for is Jason Maxiell. He’s strong defensively and he’s shown the ability to hit outside shots. When he’s gotten playing time, he’s played very well. He’s undersized but he’s makes up for that with freakishly long arms, a very wide frame, strength and good (and quick) leaping ability. He’s undersized but his play doesn’t suffer from the deficiencies of that limitation.

    Another note about Maxiell: I think he may have the greatest arm speed in basketball. His blocked shots travel stupidly into the stands with incredible velocity. They’re breathtaking in their power. He could be a legend in other sports. On a volleyball court, he could possibly kill someone with a spike. On a mound, I have no doubt he would throw 100 plus. And on tennis court, my word, how fast could he serve.

  52. TDM

    Great game overall! Glad to see the Knicks get the win, especially after Tim Thomas’ dunk on Lee giving him a black eye in the process. Tim Thomas couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat when he played for NY. Tonight, however, he was on his game. I was almost hoping that Frye would channel K-Mart and check Thomas into the stands.

    My only complaints with the way the Knicks played was that they jacked up six 3-point attempts in the first quarter and missed them all. We were down 10-1 in no time.

    I would have liked to see our guards take their time trying to establish Curry’s game in the paint or driving to the hoop and drawing fouls. The Clips did do a good job doubling Curry, however. Also, I thought Marbury did a great job of containing Cassell – forcing him to take tough shots. Now if we can just build on these two quality wins and carry the momentum on to the road.

  53. Brian Cronin

    Maxiell probably IS available, if the offer was a great one, but I don’t see how the Pistons would like Frye in that deal.

    A 3-team deal?

  54. Tamim

    I would love to get Ray Allen, with him on board. We would have a deadly inside out combination. I wouldn’t mind trading Frye and this year’s first round pick. I know it’s a good deep draft, and Isiah usually does a good job at drafting. But if we can Ray Allen, our pick won’t be worth all that much. Not sure how much Ray Allen makes, we’d need to throw in Rose’s contract and maybe Little Nate to make it happen. We’d get a very very competitive starting 5.
    PG/Marbury
    SG/ Ray Allen
    SF/ Q. Rich
    PF/ Lee
    C/ Curry.
    We’d still have a solid bench with JJ, Francis (could be a great 6th man, if he gets healthy, Renaldo would get more minutes.
    Make it happen Zeke.

  55. Stephen

    (Maxiell probably IS available, if the offer was a great one, but I don?t see how the Pistons would like Frye in that deal.)

    You think the Pistons would turn down Frye for Maxiell, assuming the Knicks would even make such an offer? I don’t know, Frye isn’t a worldbeater but he has a better pedigree and some good skills to boot. I think Frye has more trade value than a guy like Maxiell, who while has talent and been productive when given the chance to play, still hasn’t played much and is going to carry skepticism about his size until he puts a good full season together. On the surface, the Knicks would be trading a guy who had a solid rookie season and is starting to play decently again after really struggling early on for a guy who has played only 482 minutes in his career.

    Flip Saunders is noted as an offensive coach and I got to think that Frye could fit well in there, that he would be an attractive option for someone like Saunders. Not that it would make a difference necessarily because Dumars builds that team and he may not like the defiencies Frye brings to the table. But for this season, Frye would look good coming off the bench and teaming up for spurts with Webber passing out of the post.

  56. Brian Cronin

    You think the Pistons would turn down Frye for Maxiell, assuming the Knicks would even make such an offer? I don?t know, Frye isn?t a worldbeater but he has a better pedigree and some good skills to boot. I think Frye has more trade value than a guy like Maxiell, who while has talent and been productive when given the chance to play, still hasn?t played much and is going to carry skepticism about his size until he puts a good full season together. On the surface, the Knicks would be trading a guy who had a solid rookie season and is starting to play decently again after really struggling early on for a guy who has played only 482 minutes in his career.

    Flip Saunders is noted as an offensive coach and I got to think that Frye could fit well in there, that he would be an attractive option for someone like Saunders. Not that it would make a difference necessarily because Dumars builds that team and he may not like the defiencies Frye brings to the table. But for this season, Frye would look good coming off the bench and teaming up for spurts with Webber passing out of the post.

    I think you could make a very strong argument for Channing Frye being better than Maxiell, using mostly the same argument you just made (Frye is more polished while Maxiell is more raw talent), I just don’t think that the Pistons are looking for a player like Frye at this point in time. If they were to trade Maxiell, I think it would be for a big-time perimeter player (a 3 or a 2, maybe even a 1).

    And, Deepak, I do not think folks mentioned Millsap for the very reason you mentioned – Utah would not consider trading him for Frye.

  57. Brian Cronin

    Consider this. Channing Frye was hurt for most of last year so he is not really second year player.

    Come on, confucius, ya gotta try better than that.

    Dude played 65 (out of a possible 82) games last season. That’s 79% of the games…not even close to “most of last year.”

  58. Brian Cronin

    nice win, that offensive execution on the consecutive threes late by the unit of Curry/Frye/Lee/Q/Crawford was beautiful to see. also good to see Steph come back from being totally abused by Livingston in the first half, dude had more interceptions than Asante Samuel.

    I was at the game, and lordy, did those passes look ugly. I can’t wait to watch the replay this morning to see if they looked any better on TV – I was just thinking, “Why, Steph, why?!?”

    And KB, regarding Frye, I think he has lost a LOT of the “Deer in the Headlights” attitude as of late. He seems a ton more aggressive nowadays (and he looked aggressive against the Clippers – not necessarily GOOD, but aggressive).

  59. jon abbey

    “I was at the game, and lordy, did those passes look ugly. I can?t wait to watch the replay this morning to see if they looked any better on TV – I was just thinking, ?Why, Steph, why?!??”

    Livingston is so long, he kept faking Steph into thinking the passing lane was there and then he took it away. at least Steph played mad in the third, I was having flashbacks to when Mark Jackson was our PG and would get the ball taken away from him coming up the floor about once a game.

  60. confucius

    “Come on, confucius, ya gotta try better than that”

    With all due respect Mr Cronin. I beg to differ. Injuries do play a big part in a player’s development. In addition to missing games, practice time is also missed. This loss of practice and game time can retard a player’s growth.

    Point is, there are several posts ready to trade Frye ( yours truly included) , and I suggest everyone should pause and consider where Frye is in his development.

    He will become a very good player.

  61. Ammad

    Quick question people always mention trading Rose’s expiring contract, but we bought him out, how can we trade the expiring contract?

  62. Owen

    Re Balkman – It’s just one game, but againstMiami Balkman defended Wade and gave him absolute fits. He finished a couple of buckets in transition, had a bunch of tips and deflections, and generally created havoc. His line? He had ten points on 4-6 shooting in 14 minutes with eight rebounds an assist a turnover and a steal. The guy definitely deserves to be out there much more. He stuck to Wade like glue. Who cares if he cant shoot from outside. Just like Lee, he needs to be getting more time.

  63. dave crockett

    KB,

    re: Frye and deer-in-headlights.

    I’ve seen much more of that this year than last. Last year he got into the lineup and just played. In fact, I was surprised that he transitioned so well. But then, he knew where his shots were coming from. He set his screen, faded to his spot, got the ball and just shot it.

    Then the offense changed during the off-season. It no longer emphasizes his strengths, and so he has struggled to find his role. It’s not surprising his confidence has wavered under the circumstances, particularly since he doesn’t do much other than score.

    This is not totally unlike his college career. Arizona is guard/forward-friendly offense if there ever was one and it takes a while for their bigs to develop. (Arizona rarely produces quality big men, and a number have transferred into the program, like Loren Woods, Ben Davis, and Brian Williams/Bison Dele.) Frye showed flashes from day one, but it took him into his junior year to really understand where his offense would come from.

    I don’t see much danger in Frye going Nick Anderson, as Anderson’s confidence issues are pretty much traceable to a single event. That could happen to any player at any time I suppose. I see Frye developing into a nice complementary scorer, along the lines of Memhet Okur. The key for him will be moving his rebound rate from 12% up to 14%, which I think is doable as he fills out.

  64. Gene

    RE: Balkman

    With all the pre-draft hype given to Tyrus “Free Money” Thomas, Balkman has been arguably the better player this year. Their per-40 lines are close to identical:

    Balkman: 10.7 rebs/2stl/2.5blk/11 pts
    Thomas: 10.8 rebs/2 stl/3.7 blk/ 14 pts

    The one area where Thomas has Balkman beat is in blocks. However, Thomas turns it over to the tune of 4.7 per 40. Balkman coughs it up half as often – 2.3 per 40. This nullifies Thomas’ advantage in blocks. Factor in Balkman’s (Staten Island, baby!) positive attitide, and I’d take him over Tyrus any day.

  65. Ammad

    I dont know the salaries but what about the Knicks getting Kirilenko, he is low on the Jazz depth chart these days.

    Also wouldn’t he qualify as a Small forward who can defend?

  66. mase

    Kirilenko is more of what we have in Jeffries and Balkman for more money in my opinion…we could draft Glenn Davis(LSU) who fits the mold.

  67. jon abbey

    Thomas is two years younger than Balkman, 22-20, and neither of them have played much, I wouldn’t take much out of their play so far, except that all of the knuckleheads blasting Isiah for taking RB should STFU.

    Kirilenko has a massive contract, $62 million plus over the next four years. I’d seriously consider taking the contract off Utah’s hands, but I wouldn’t give up too much talent in return.

  68. TDM

    Kirilenko has been a malcontent lately because he wants the offense to focus more on him. That’s the last thing we need. Not to mention, he’s is injury prone and hasn’t been putting up the same numbers since his last injury.

    Speaking of malcontents, a lot of sports writers are talking about how much Isiah could use the expiring contracts of Mo Taylor and Jalen Rose at the trade deadline. I think a large part of the Knicks success this year, if we can call it that, is due to the fact that we do not have a bunch of guys with bad attitudes on the squad. In that way, I think it was a good move to get rid of those two contracts.

  69. Brian Cronin

    Speaking of malcontents, a lot of sports writers are talking about how much Isiah could use the expiring contracts of Mo Taylor and Jalen Rose at the trade deadline. I think a large part of the Knicks success this year, if we can call it that, is due to the fact that we do not have a bunch of guys with bad attitudes on the squad. In that way, I think it was a good move to get rid of those two contracts.

    It’s an interesting point…I don’t know if we can really demonstrate it one way or the other, but it’s certainly worth consideration…

  70. Brian Cronin

    And Dave, yeah, you’re right, Frye went total Deer in the Headlights when they changed the offense during the off-season – and only now is he getting used to the offense.

  71. Confucius

    Kirilenko is a stud that flirts with qaudruple doubles.

    He just cant stay healthy. Dont think he has played a full season. Utah players are often injured. The pundits suggest that Jerry Sloan’s praticies are too rough on the players.

    Change of scenery could rejuvenate Kirilenko’s career.

  72. Ted Nelson

    I agree with Hollinger that those are four areas in which the Knicks could use improvement. However, is anyone really in favor of replacing half our rotation with Tyronne Lue, Travis Diener, Keith Bogans, and a defensively inclined PF to be named later?
    So who do you trade for and whose minutes do you take away to play these studs???

    The problem I have with trading Frye is that there are very few 4s who are both very good defenders and have a sweet outside touch. So chances are we end up with someone who’s either a non-factor offensively or is competing with Curry for space on the low block. One question is whether it would be easier for Frye to develop defensively or for a good defensive PF to develop a shooting touch (with Frye’s work ethic I think he can develop). Another question is whether you need someone who can score or more of an Oak to Curry’s Ewing?

    If you do trade him I would wait till the offseason when Isiah has the chance to do what he does best and identify someone he likes in what promises to be the deepest draft for bigmen in a long time, if not ever. With such strength up top some other good bigmen are bound to be overlooked. Or, especially if at that time the Knicks president is not a certain HoF PG (who I would argue is the best drafter in the NBA), other teams are likely to be more open to give up better players as they can replace them more easily in the offseason.

    Unless the Knicks are really blown away by someone who really likes, say, Channing Frye, Jamal Crawford, or Nate Robinson and is willing to value them at their potential rather than their production, I’m in favor of standing pat till the offseason. I’d even stay away from a Ray Allen or Paul Pierce, because both are signed to huge contacts until they’re about 35. AK-47 is, as someone else mentioned, someone I might not mind seeing Dolan throw money at if Utah’s willing to give him a way, meaning for Steve Francis. When he’s on he’s a great defender.

  73. Ammad

    Frye and a large contract for AK47 I think could do it, because AK is low on the depth chart and is pushed out of Utah due to Boozer, we trade our contract for his, and with a change of scenery perhaps it works. But you are right he is injured ala Marcus Camby, but when he is healthy what a player.

  74. mase

    “Frye and a large contract for AK47 I think could do it, because AK is low on the depth chart and is pushed out of Utah due to Boozer, we trade our contract for his, and with a change of scenery perhaps it works. But you are right he is injured ala Marcus Camby, but when he is healthy what a player. ”

    what does Utah management think about your decision on trading their franchise player for our own stevie’franchise’?

  75. jon abbey

    Kirilenko is hardly their franchise player anymore, both Williams and Boozer are way past him, probably Okur also.

  76. Hudson River

    Kirelinko sounds like a combination Steve Francis, Jerome James and Jared Jefferies. Huge Contract (all three), Older player who is not playing the same as they used to, injury prone, and somebody with no significant offensive ability. Isiah may bite, I say no.

  77. jon abbey

    I think that’s what’s going to happen, T-Mart. I agree that the best chance for this team is for the players we have to improve individually and keep learning how to play better together:

    for Jamal to occasionally show up before the 4th
    for Steph to stop committing 2-3 totally unnecessary turnovers a game
    for Curry to become at least slightly better at defending the middle
    for Lee and Frye to improve their D
    for Q’s back and elbow to be healthy

    but I also think that if the right blockbuster comes along, for a serious impact player like Garnett or Ray Allen or maybe Kirilenko, we need to consider it.

  78. Confucius

    Jon,
    Below is the link to an interesting article in the NY Post that piggy backs on your point.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/02082007/sports/knicks/doubting_thomas_needs_to_cease_knicks_george_willis.htm

    Willis mentions that stability in the organization is very much needed. Stability is one intangible that will help the Knicks improve. The Knicks have had 4 coaches in the last two years. During that time the players have had to learn 4 different systems. Isiah brings stability to the Knicks and should be given credit for
    a. Eddie Curry’s emergence
    b. David Lee’s play
    c. Stephan Marbury new role

    These three players are key components in Knicks success and they have done so in Isiah?s system. It would be crazy to fire Isiah. Replacing Isiah will leave the Knicks with 5 coaches in three years. The Knicks are on the road to respectability and Isiah should be given a chance to finish the job.

  79. mase

    “Curry says that if Isiah is fired he wants out”

    Mr. Dolan,
    lets kill 2 birds with one stone here while his trade value is high, please.

  80. TDM

    On another subject, is anyone else shocked by the realization that Marbury has finally become a leader in the mold of Jason Kidd. I remember the speech Marbury gave after getting drafted in 96, about how he wanted to play the game like Kidd. Over 10 yrs later, he may finally be there. Granted he isn’t putting up triple doubles like Kidd, but his head is in the right place as far as making his teammates better.

    A couple Marbury quotes from today’s sports pages:

    “The game doesn’t start when you get into the game. The game starts right before the shootaround in the morning.”

    “No matter what you say about this team, we’re a unit.”

  81. jon abbey

    I’ll be more impressed with Marbury when he cuts down on the seemingly incessant needless and lazy turnovers and actually takes care of the ball. you know, like a PG is theoretically supposed to do.

    I love that people are all over his jock for trying to help the team win, when he gets paid 200K per game to do just that. thanks for trying, Steph! you’re my hero.

  82. TDM

    Jon, you have a point, but when I Marbury giving up the ball to his teammates instead of trying to pad his stats, I think he’s come a long way.

    For example, in the Clip game, he had a breakaway for an easy layup, but instead he gave it up to Q for a nice slamdunk. Q had been struggling the entire game. Marbury was trying to get him going. I think that’s a big step for him.

  83. jon abbey

    yeah, some good signs, no doubt. I love that he’s hustling on D now against guys like Ray Allen and Kevin Martin, no way he does that any time in his career before this year.

    but he’s not taking nearly enough flak for his turnovers, some are just so unnecessary and careless. the piece in the Post today talks about how he came out with a vengeance in the 3rd quarter against LAC, which is certainly true, and was a big reason why they won. but they don’t mention it’s because Livingston took the ball away from him at will in the first half (which was a big reason why they were down 10 at halftime), and he had to step it up or continue to be embarrassed.

  84. jon abbey

    a not bad piece on Dolan and the state of our boys in this week’s Sports Illustrated:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/the_bonus/02/06/price.knicks0212/index.html

    as a former Time Inc. factchecker, I have to point out one whopper of an error, towards the end:

    “He’s the one, after all, who in October 2005 gambled a slew of first-round draft picks — including this year’s possible lottery pick — on Eddy Curry, the 6’11″ center who has had episodes of irregular heartbeat. ”

    one plus the right to exchange a second hardly constitutes a “slew”. ‘first-round’ should have been dropped here as there were two second-round picks in the deal as well, then it reads OK.

  85. Hudson River

    Marbury’s turnovers are pretty sloppy, but I like the effort by him to get his teammates involved. He has never been great at not commiting turnovers, but I think he can limit them. Many players have TO problems (Melo’, Lebron, Tony Parker, even J-Kidd sometimes), Nash is just too good.

    Jon Abbey, i agree the piece was quite good, but it did seem a little negetive to me. I read it in the real magazine and it was 8 pages, a little long but fourtunatly I had a nice long subway ride. Your correction is true I thought the same thing when i read it.

  86. Marc R

    The article was interesting. Dolan seems like a real jerk to work for, but he doesn’t seem to be a negative effect from a fan’s perspective. Players seem to like playing for him.

  87. jfri

    Dolan isn?t going to ever make or break what happens on the floor, his egocentric ways may give him the headlines he yearns but it wont effect the record.

    What the knicks need is defense. Okufur would be ideal but why would any team trade that talent, they wouldn?t.

    The knicks need to be led by example, AKA, a defensive point guard who sets a tone. On this team that is no where to be found. Would a team that has that be willing to trade, probably not unless there is a gluttonous situation. We need luck, we need a steve nash, we need a billups, we need a john starks. Like all top class organizations, like the knicks used to do when they plucked starks and mason out of the sky, these knicks need to plug the hole.

    Isiah can draft, there is no doubt, can he find this piece, I have my doubts but will continue to hope.

  88. Peter H.

    I think trading frye for a defensive minded four is A)very hard because there aren’t many out there and B)wouldn’t help as much. I would agree that it is a need but if Curry is staying put then there is only so much we can do on the defensive end. Something like a Frye for a Tyson Chandler could work but there’s all sorts of problems in trying to get that to work. Jeff Foster maybe?

    It’s much easier to get someone who can consistently shoot. Ray Allen right now is attainable but I’m not sure if i’m willing to give someone like Lee or Frye to get that done. Someone like Travis Diener would be perfect or a guy like Steve Blake. Cheap and you don’t have to give them gobs and gobs of playing time.

    I think with Curry in the lineup, we’re going to have to depend on him if we’re going to be a half decent defensive team. Since it’s probably a long shot that he’ll become one overnight we should probably concentrate on being as efficient as possible on the offensive side because we have the talent but no one to space the floor well besides Q.

  89. jon abbey

    Travis Diener or Steve Blake? how about Quentin Richardson? he led the entire league in threes the year before last, he’d be a good fit here. if only there were some way to get him…

  90. DMull

    Led the league but took 8 per game

    Steve Blake and Travis Diener wont help us really though.

    Ray Allen obviously would…I’d mayeb do a package for him including Frye…but not Lee

  91. jon abbey

    FWIW, Ray Allen’s percentage on 3s this year is .359, Q’s is .378. Allen is 31, Q is 26. and I’m pretty sure that Q is a decidedly better defender. he’s our shooter, we just need him to be healthy.

  92. dave crockett

    “How about Quentin Richardson? he led the entire league in threes the year before last, he?d be a good fit here. if only there were some way to get him?”

    You’re a hard man jon abbey; a hard, hard man.

    You just made me almost spit out my crunchy granola–with raisins.

  93. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, that’s another thing about the Hollinger piece that struck me as odd.

    He was knocking the Knicks’ 3-point shooting, then shows Marbury’s 3-point percentage – and it’s not that bad, something around 35% with three and a half threes a game.

    That’s not that bad.

  94. mase

    Ray allen is a pure shooter thats why everyone likes what he brings to the table. Q can light it up from downtown and he might be a better scorer but we have a lot of scorers but I am not advocating trading Q.

  95. Dan Panorama

    It’s the way Marbury gets his threes that’s more problematic – he likes to dribble around, look his defender in the eye, and then pop it in his face, or just jack one up immediately before the defense gets set.

    His percentage is fine so this behavior doesn’t bother me at all (in fact it’s kind of badass) but it doesn’t maximize Curry’s ability to draw double teams because Marbury isn’t known for catch-and-shoot plays. Q-Rich can do that, but he’s healthy only about half the time it seems. Ideally Nate, who’s an excellent three shooter, would start accepting this role as well.

  96. DMull

    “It?s the way Marbury gets his threes that?s more problematic – he likes to dribble around, look his defender in the eye, and then pop it in his face, or just jack one up immediately before the defense gets set.”

    Yeah, Steph sucks on threes when he’s wide open – it’s pretty weird.

  97. Paul

    I think moving Frye is a must if they are serious about building this team around Curry. It is important to find someone to compliment Curry and make up for his lack of defense and rebounding. While Frye is a nice player, he is a jump shooting big man and does not fill the role we need from our power forward.

  98. Qube

    I am totally serious about this, and I might be scratching the wall of “absurdity” but hear me out.

    How about trading for a some guys in NBDL? Is that possible? Guys like Pops Mensah-Bonsu , who is a freak athlete, is averaging a double double down in the NBDL and I don’t see him cracking Dallas’ lineup anytime soon. or how about Reuben Boumtje-Boumtje who’s out of the league?

    Speaking of sharp shooters, how about Kevin Pittsnogle? He’s huge and he can hit the three, actually pretty much all he can do is hit the three. 6-11 250lbs, so he’s not a lightweight either. He right now plays in the CBA.

    Swinging 10 day contracts for any of the above players (except Mensah-Bonsu) might be a good idea instead of packaging our good players for somebody who might turn out to be shit. (ie. Ariza for Francis… urgh)
    Trade Mardy Collins or even Nate Robinson(!) for Pops…would the Mavs take it? Well… I dunno. They might. why not try? There are plenty of big men out there NOT in the NBA that can contribute. Mikki Moore for the Nets was tearing it up in the NBDL before getting a chance with the Nets and look how he’s doing! Nets are his 7th team. If Thomas wanted to prove true worth as a GM/coach, it’s time for him to find diamonds in the rough. That’s just me though. What do you guys think?

  99. jon abbey

    I think that this team has plenty of talent on the roster right now, and things should be reevaluated in the offseason.

    “If Thomas wanted to prove true worth as a GM/coach, it?s time for him to find diamonds in the rough.”

    David Lee and Renaldo Balkman say hello.

  100. Qube

    We can bring in Gerry McNamara from wherever the hell he is right now?

    I’m advocating trying out unproven talent, since Knicks need specific role players? We don’t need a PF. We need a defensive PF.

    We don’t need a G, we need a very very good catch and shoot G. Catch my drift?

    I’m with you (i think) on that the talent level for the Knicks is not as horrible as some people make it out to be, jon abbey, but trying out some of those players that never really had the chance to play even with major ability (Pops, Pittsnogle, Gerry Mac) should be given a chance by the Knicks since they fit the profile of what Hollinger prescribes for the Knicks. I love how you respond to the least important line in the entire response. Getting players that no other team even had on the 1st round draft board is not really “diamonds in the rough” imo. It’s more like a “shot in the dark” that turned out to be “killer”

    [Marquis Daniels, Andres Nocioni, Udonis Haslem, Smush Parker] These players didn’t even get drafted and they’re game changing talents for a playoff contenders and starting. Haslem even has a ring! You see what I mean by “diamonds in the rough” now? I don’t mean lucking out on a mid-late 1st round draft pick. I mean finding players that nobody even cared and giving them a purpose on a basketball court.

    If you can try to remedy some problems with chunk change without moving marquee players and 1st round investments, why not do it?

  101. jon abbey

    they don’t have minutes for the guys they have now. Gerry McNamara is not an NBA player. also, role players like Haslem, Smush and Daniels are a lot more effective when you have superstars like Shaq/Wade, Kobe and Dirk on the team. the Knicks don’t have anyone near that level.

  102. Brian Cronin

    While I basically agree with you, Jon, that the Knicks have enough talent sitting on the bench, at the same time – why NOT take a flyer on a Gerry McNamara type (while not saying McNamara himself), just to have in case they ever feel like using the guy?

    It’s not like it’s a huge financial layout to sign a guy to a couple of 10-day contracts.

    They have that empty spot on the roster.

    Then again, I suppose I am pretty free spending their money. I can see how a couple hundred thou actually COULD be seen as a lot of money to the Knicks.

  103. jon abbey

    yeah, if there’s a potential impact guy out there, I’m all for it. Isiah did dig up Jackie Butler and Udoka last year. I just don’t think it’s an especially high priority at this point.

  104. Qube

    I never once mentioned this as a priority, but merely as an option.

    I want response to the players that I have mentioned. Pops (very very athletic 4), Boumtje Boumtje (probably the smartest guy to play in the NBA ever), Kevin Pittsnogle (he can shoot lights out and he’s 6-10) I don’t want some smart ass comment about somebody not being NBA material or whatever. It’s counterproductive and irrelevant. I was trying to give options on available front court players that should be acquired next to nothing while addressing some of the problems that were stated.

    jon abbey you suggested yourself the following.
    1. Defensive PF
    2. Perimeter defender
    3. Outside Shooter
    4. Pure Point Guard

    1 – Pops
    2 – we got that in Jeffries… it just hasn’t panned out yet.
    3. Pittsnogle
    4. Whatever. Marbury is ok. Maybe Sarunas Jasiskevicius.

    2 of the 4 problems that you suggested can be possibly remedied through signing unheralded and/or unsigned FAs.
    WHY NOT DO IT? They are potential impact guys, especially since the Knicks have specific needs.

    Don’t twist my words. My point is streamlined. If you don’t get it, maybe you should ask instead of acting like you know.

  105. jon abbey

    your point is streamlined and “I get it” just fine, I simply don’t agree. my answers have been even more streamlined, do you not “get” those?

    look, the answers to these issues (Hollinger’s list, not mine) are already on our current roster, except for #4.

    1. Defensive PF
    2. Perimeter defender
    3. Outside Shooter
    4. Pure Point Guard

    1. David Lee, as I said on the other thread. not quite yet, but let him play and develop.
    2. Balkman and/or Jeffries
    3. Q and/or Crawford (Q needs to be healthier and Crawford clearly needs to be more consistent, but they’re a lot better than anything out there, short of trading for someone like Ray Allen)
    4. this is what we need with our first round pick this year, although the draft is very weak in PGs. in the meantime, Francis looks a lot better than I expected him to, we can live with him for the rest of the season and reexamine this in the offseason. maybe even Nate can develop in this direction, but this is certainly where I’d be looking to add someone if possible, and I’d deal Frye for the right established PG also.

  106. Patrick

    Wow, David Lee is the greatest
    I Think that knicks shoudl use david lee and balkman more.

    david lee
    in the allstar game
    30 pts , 14-14, 11 rebounds, 4 assist. and MVP.

    Players who i believe should be traded are
    Channing Fyre
    Jerome James
    Steve Francis
    Starbury

    the knicks need a playmaker, outside shooting (will be best if crawford was always hot like in the heat game), and some defensive players not necessary powerfoward because i believe balkman and lee does a great job.

    Oh yeah i heard that knicks were gonna pick up RON ARTEST?

  107. Qube

    jon abbey now I understand how you interpret what I said.
    I’m saying instead of trades we should try 10 day contracts of unproven talents. You’re saying we shouldn’t trade either since we have all the pieces we have (well almost).
    Both very valid. I wanted commentary on the idea and the prospects of the players, instead of this idea of yours is better. I wasn’t trying to start a beef, but I was (still am) looking for specific answers.

    I agree with you almost entirely with the 4 points. David Lee would just have to hit the gym and become “beastly” defined, then really he could take on anybody in terms of power.
    Q needs to stop lifting. He looks like he can lift a house, but can’t lift shit if your back is achy. Time to hit them ellipticals!
    Crawford has a good set shot from what I’ve seen, and it’s actually very pretty. It’s just those damn runners with 16 seconds left on the shot clock that kills me. He can take MUCH MUCH smarter shots, and once he realizes that he would be a legitimate star because raw abilities wise, I don’t think that many players can come close to him.

    Balkman/Jeffries – yeah I’ve seen Balkman play in college. This boy singlehandedly won the NIT for the Gamecocks. Still a rookie. Jeffries I think just seems out of his element right now with the Knicks imo. He’ll make a mistake and try to make up for it, and just make things far far worse trying way too hard. Maybe a lil break would help him.

    PG is where I would disagree to a degree. If Acie Law falls, we should take him, but if not then an athletic big body I think is needed more. Marbury has been playing good basketball, but his knee is obviously hurting. Maybe the allstar break would give him some rest. I also am skeptical that a rookie PG would become the leader that the Knicks need.

    so all in all…
    DON’T TRADE ANYBODY!

    btw, I was just looking at our payroll and that’s some BS man. There needs to be a change in the CBA, because it’s ridiculous for the Knicks to be paying for players that are retired. That’s greedy man! I love Houston but he oughta be trying his darndest to make a comeback, but he doesn’t have to and that’s just unprofessional imo.

  108. smoke js

    There is no power forward available for trade to address defensive problems, so we should stop dreamin about it. The best option is to develop the already defensive minded players we have and have them grow with the rest of the team. Balkman and Jefferies both have the potential to be great defensive stoppers. Frye was a shotblocker in college, i’m not sure when he forgot this skill in his transition to the nba. Hire Oakley to come in and teach the young kids some defense, we need to focus on snatching the 8th seed this year, but more important we need to gear up for next year’s war to win the atlantic division and a top 4 seed in the playoffs.

  109. Tongan Horse

    I recall reading an article about Kevin Pittsnogle on the web.
    Apparently, the reason why the Celtics waived him (after extensive training/nurturing in which he didn’t make a good enough improvement), was that he can’t play defense and his basketball IQ on the defensive end sucked.
    I believe it was Doc Rivers that was interviewed/made those comments.
    Sorry I don’t have a link to back that up.

    It’s on the defensive side of the ball that the Knicks need to get better. The Knicks don’t need Pittsnoggle, even as a cheap replacement if Frye gets traded.

  110. steve

    frye for lue , did you think that the knicks had the right cummings when they got pat cummings instead of terry cummings in the 80′s, you are obviously a celtic fan

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