Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Friday, April 18, 2014

Heat 104, Knicks 94

New York Knicks 94 Final
Recap | Box Score
104 Miami Heat
Carmelo Anthony, SF 45 MIN | 12-26 FG | 6-9 FT | 9 REB | 1 AST | 30 PTS | -11

Sometimes a good classmate clowning is good for the soul – and the will. After a truly putrid performance in Game 1, Melo came out the tunnel a man possessed in the Second Act, all but duct taping his tepid teammates to shoulders. The shot selection itself left a lot to be desired – once again, way too heavy a reliance on two-or-three-dribble pull-ups from 18-20 feet – but at least #7 didn’t treat the paint like a lake of kryptonite.

Brass tacks, the Knicks needed all of Melo’s hoists. But it’s also clear that getting his will come at the expense of an increasingly stagnant offense; one whose tendencies the Heat are absorbing and learning like a pack of rabid Raptors. This shit keeps up, we’ll be issuing 2012 Report Cards by next Monday.

Amare Stoudemire, PF 41 MIN | 6-9 FG | 6-9 FT | 7 REB | 0 AST | 18 PTS | -9

The beauty of basketball often goes beyond the abilities and talents of a given player, and into the deeper question of how that player can be put in the best position to succeed. I’ve been tooting the Sixth-Man-Stat horn for a while now, mainly because I think he excels as the focal point of a faster-paced, smaller second unit. Unfortunately, Woody just doesn’t see it that way, as evidenced by his propensity for tethering Stat to Melo in extended stretches. His name was once again little more than short for Statuesque on the defensive end, with ‘E lazily getting back in transition and thenceforth lost amidst the Heat’s Hit-the-Open-Man sets.

The result was a truly forgettable performance that – while peppered by a few violent dunks and flashes of interest – threw into high relief how far Stat has truly fallen from mid-aught glory. Three years, $65 million to go.

Tyson Chandler, C 33 MIN | 6-8 FG | 1-1 FT | 7 REB | 0 AST | 13 PTS | -7

I might be alone here, but it seems to me that not eating for three days and ending your Saturday on a hotel IV drip indicates either A) You’re half-way through a peyote trip with Jim Morrison, or B) you were clearly ill and probably shouldn’t have been allowed to make your own bowl of Corn Flakes, let alonw play in a professional basketball game. Two days later, and Chandler – while clearly not at 100% — had a noticeable pep about his step. His minutes were understandably limited, his energy — typically the fountain from which the ‘Bockers feast — ditto. After his two ferocious second quarter dunks briefly brought the Knicks to the brink of confidence, #tysonflugame became a real possibility. Alas, it was not to be.

Baron Davis, PG 27 MIN | 5-8 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 6 AST | 12 PTS | -5

We knew Baron’s back had been tensing up since Saturday’s voodoo séance, and all things considered he wasn’t a complete disaster — although a pair of ridiculous shot clock-beating threes probably skewed the results a smidge. But it’s on the defensive end in particular that Baron’s age-wear is so glaring as to be translucent. Against an opponent whose relative youth, zeal and zest render them their own laser light show, being five years removed from your career apex starts to feel more like fifty.

Landry Fields, G 18 MIN | 1-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 1 AST | 2 PTS | -15

Landry, meet Dwyane. He’ll be eating your face now. Ah ah ah ah ah! Don’t struggle! Just sit back and enjoy it! It’ll hurt less that way. Who knows, he might even put you in his next T-Mobile commercial!….. Probably he’ll just digest your face and fart it out later.

Mostly I just feel bad for Landry, a guy who seems so confident and cocksure off court, but who has an alarming tendency to turn to smoke when pitted against the big boys on the block.

Mike Bibby, PG 21 MIN | 1-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 2 AST | 3 PTS | -5

After a promising first half in which he…. scored…. Bibby spent most of the rest of the contest coffin-nailed. As with his aforementioned junior, I just feel bad for the guy. Not because he’s any more of a liability than Baron Davis or – gulp – Toney Douglas. Rather, it really brings my piss to a boil watching a veteran of 14+ years, many of them near All-Star caliber, sit idly by as Dwyane Wade picks up his left foot and tosses it out of bounds with absolutely no repercus….. That was just his shoe? Oh. That’s good.

In all seriousness, I can’t help but stare over and over at the 0 turnover stat — really, he’s pretty good about taking care of the ball — and think he has to be providing something the other points simply aren’t…. And then I remember that he really isn’t and can’t, because he’s less capable of driving to the cup than an alcoholic grandmother.

Jared Jeffries, PF 4 MIN | 0-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 0 AST | 0 PTS | +1

Who else had Charles Smith acid flashbacks?

Steve Novak, SF 21 MIN | 1-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 5 REB | 0 AST | 3 PTS | -2

His 1-3 night, two-turnvoer night notwithstanding, Novak — amazingly — is one of the few guys who doesn’t look totally flustered when he catches the ball (he’s 3-5 on tries from deep so far in the series). Melo in particular needs to do a better job of hitting Kaine in stride near the top of the key off of elbow isos, although Miami’s done a stellar job of making sure they’re committing a half-decent defender to Novak whenever he’s on the floor.

Which is going a really long way to to say that I just don’t fuckin know anymore…

J.R. Smith, SG 31 MIN | 6-11 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 5 AST | 13 PTS | +3

Prior to the series, I posited that Earl’s bench production was tantamount to New York’s success in the series. Thus far, J.R. — seemingly genetic restless chucks aside — has managed to pull his weight. On offense, anyway. On defense, Smith got lost on far too many screens and cuts, mostly while guarding D-Wade or LBJ.

But so did / does Landy. Which begs the question: At what point does Woodson see it fit to start J.R.? Yes, that leaves our bench Austin Daye-thin. But the dude logged like 90 minutes a game in China; it’s not like he doesn’t have the stamina. Sure, the thought of the damage J.R. Smith can do given 36 minutes of playing time horrifies me more than a nuclear Ireland. But that doesn’t mean it’s not the prudent route.

Five Things We Saw

  1. A quick glance at the number reveals a bevy of surprising outcomes in favor of the Knicks, with rebounding (40-33, including 12-7 on the offensive glass), limited turnovers (only 13, below their season average, and far below the 24 coughed up in Saturday’s crap fest); and pace-keeping shooting (49% to Miami’s 52%) being chief among them. Where Miami pulled away was A) from distance (9 treys to the ‘Bockers’ 5), and B) on the stripe (27 attempts to New York’s 19).
  2. The Heat scored nearly half (50/104) of their points in the paint. Why? Because they’re one of the most aggressive tin-ward driving team in recent memory, and their wings know how to pass on the run. What results is open shot after open shot, which — even when the slinger firing is known to be streaky — makes the odds much more favorable that they connect.
  3. As Tom Haberstroh pointed out yesterday, before Iman Shumpert’s tragic season-ending injury, Wade was actually scoring at a much higher clip with Shump on the floor than off. Which, OK. But I say go ahead and file that one under “misleading stats.” The Knicks missed Shumps intensity, aggressiveness, profuse sweat bordering on a thyroid issue, all of it — and on both ends of the floor. Now, with Amar’e poised to join the ranks of the fallen, the Knicks’ season is quickly morphing into some kind of twisted 21st century reenactment of the siege of the Alamo — the Fess Parker version, where Melo’s left swinging his rifle as wave after wave of freedom-hating Mexicans (the Heat…. work with me) storm at him bayonets-a-blazin’…. Maybe that’s why I have such awful issues with defeat: I spent half my childhood watching my heroes get murdered.
  4. LATE BREAKING NEWS: Apparently Amar’e Stoudemire, upon entering the visitor’s locker room, punched a fire extinguisher and lacerated his hand. He’s been ruled out of Thursday’s game, and probably the rest of the series.

    …. Now, I’m not a doctor. In fact, there are few people in the world I’d be less inclined to take medical advice from than myself. That being said, the following is a list of locker room fodder better suited to absorb the punch of you, six-time NBA All-Star power forward: Door of locker; door leading to locker room; door leading to bathroom; jersey on hanger; can of Tenactin; toilet head; toilet seat; face of Josh Harrellson; air; duffel bag; punching bag from training room; own balls; own face; own pectoral; pair of shoes; stream of shower water; carpeted floor.

    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

  5. It’s easy to delude oneself into believing that Stat’s sudden, blood-drenched departure means a return to the halcyon days of winning with Melo at the four. But that’s probably far too simplistic an answer. Miami has the bodies, the speed, the quickness, and — most of all — the communicative camaraderie, to figure out how to Make Melo work for his. Whether or not they can actually stop him is a question of a far different stripe — and if his 42-point Garden performance (whilst playing power forward, no less) is any indication, maybe they can’t. We hope they can’t. We pray they can’t, even, because that’s all we really have left, at this point.

121 comments on “Heat 104, Knicks 94

  1. Matt Park

    Amar’e Stoudemire probably out for Game 3… He apparently punched a fire extinguisher and received lacerations on his left hand.

  2. sidestep

    Someone on P&T explained Amare’s action thus: “I think he was jealous of the fire extinguisher’s ability to stop the Heat.” LOL

  3. max fisher-cohen

    It seems the Knicks are determined to never again play with Lin, Stoudemire and Melo all healthy.

  4. ruruland

    “i’ll assume what we said the day chandler was acquired has always been a sore spot 4 stat. As TKB has ONLY reported, they tried to trade him”
    “stat was offered for Chris Paul. THat has been a sore spot for the team all year. Word i’m getting is that he’s mad a woodson too.”

    Tommy Dee Knicks Blog

    https://twitter.com/#!/TommyDeeTKB

    No way Amar’e is in Knicks uniform next year.

  5. johnlocke

    Amare deserves an F. What a moron. Who punches glass? Pippen was smart enough to punch pillows but that was AFTER the series was over

  6. max fisher-cohen

    Stat is mad at woodson. MElo was mad at D’Antoni… Might some of this behavior have to do with the fact that management values its stars over stability, the team’s reputation, and success?

  7. llcoolbp

    If amare is out for punching a fire extinguisher then he needs to go for a bag of peanuts. Woodson straight up needs to be fired. He could not keep this team focused under adversity. I don’t care how old Phil Jackson is. Let the Phil Jackson era begin.

  8. nicos

    Amar’e was unmovable before- he’s certainly unmovable now. And if the Knicks get swept, his relationship with Woodson probably won’t be an issue because Woodson probably won’t be here.

  9. max fisher-cohen

    I understand his anger a bit I guess. 9 attempts in 41 minutes? And he made 6 of them. Ridiculous behavior though.

  10. ruruland

    “Now, with Amar’e poised to join the ranks of the fallen, the Knicks’ season is quickly morphing into some kind of twisted 21st century reenactment of the siege of the Alamo — the Fess Parker version, where Melo’s left swinging his rifle as wave after wave of freedom-hating Mexicans (the Heat…. work with me) storm at him bayonets-a-blazin’…. Maybe that’s why I have such awful issues with defeat: I spent half my childhood watching my heroes get murdered. ”

    Nice

  11. ruruland

    nicos:
    Amar’e was unmovable before- he’s certainly unmovable now.And if the Knicks get swept, his relationship with Woodson probably won’t be an issue because Woodson probably won’t be here.

    Totally unmovable? I don’t think so. The guy has scored efficiently post-weight loss and would probably be doing great if he had the correct pieces around him. Amar’e needs a certain set of circumstances to be successful. He can be really really successful when he has them.

  12. Z

    Last year he hurt himself dunking in warmups…

    Can’t wait to see how he manages to hurt himself in the playoffs next year!

  13. johnlocke

    He’ll be traded by then I’m pretty sure. He is superfluous on offense and nonexistent on D. Plus woody loves playing him w Melo. Woodson is so far coaching himself out of a job

    Z:
    Last year he hurt himself dunking in warmups…

    Can’t wait to see how he manages to hurt himself in the playoffs next year!

  14. nicos

    ruruland: Totally unmovable? I don’t think so. The guy has scored efficiently post-weight loss and would probably be doing great if he had the correct pieces around him. Amar’e needs a certain set of circumstances to be successful. He can be really really successful when he has them.

    He’s got 65 million left on his uninsurable contract and has knee and back issues- maybe you can dump him for a couple of equally bad contracts but then what have you gained? As you said, under the right circumstances he can still be effective but at the moment you’re not getting anything of value for him. Maybe next year he comes into camp healthy and gets off to a good start and he becomes movable at the trade deadline but I’d be shocked if he’s not on the roster when the season opens.

  15. ruruland

    nicos: He’s got 65 million left on his uninsurable contract and has knee and back issues- maybe you can dump him for a couple of equally bad contracts but then what have you gained?As you said, under the right circumstances he can still be effective but at the moment you’re not getting anything of value for him.Maybe next year he comes into camp healthy and gets off to a good start and he becomes movable at the trade deadline but I’d be shocked if he’s not on the roster when the season opens.

    IDK, you’re obviously going to be taking in a bad contract. But there are desperate teams who need a player who was once a great offensive player and could possibly be so in their situation.

  16. Will the Thrill

    The question is, will Dolan side with the player again or the coach? Seems kind of silly to me that we have 2 players that obviously can’t coexist and we are talking about swapping coach after coach. I mean, I would rather just trade Amar’e AND Melo instead of both of them but I know that isn’t going to happen, so Amar’e will do.

  17. ruruland

    What happened to Durant?

    15-44 from the field, 9 turnovers 5 assists against the mighty Mavericks defense?

  18. ruruland

    LMAO, oh that’s right, he gets cheap fouls only Lebron and Wade get –16 free throws attempts on hand-check shit.

  19. nicos

    ruruland: IDK, you’re obviously going to be taking in a bad contract. But there are desperate teams who need a player who was once a great offensive player and could possibly be so in their situation.

    Problem is the big market teams don’t need him (with the exception of NJ) and the small markets can’t afford to take that gamble. Maybe Washington would swap him for Lewis but I’d rather hang on to him and see if he can turn it around enough that you get something of some value (or that he’s worth keeping himself). For the record, I doubt there’s really some unfixable rift between he and Woodson- he was playing great and everything was hunky-dory before he got hurt and has only been back for a few games- not enough time for something to go truly sour. And let’s face it- he’s gotten 16 shots in two games- he probably should be pissed. No excuse for punching the wall- totally idiotic.

  20. bc2k

    Woody probably doesn’t mind getting out of this cursed hellhole called NY Knicks. NYC media and fans are just tough on their teams, one day coach of the year and we need to sign him for long term, next day can’t get rid of him fast enough.

    With what he did during the regular season he’ll have no problem getting a head coaching job at a bad team, say Bobcats.

  21. ruruland

    nicos: Problem is the big market teams don’t need him (with the exception of NJ) and the small markets can’t afford to take that gamble.Maybe Washington would swap him for Lewis but I’d rather hang on to him and see if he can turn it around enough that you get something of some value (or that he’s worth keeping himself).For the record, I doubt there’s really some unfixable rift between he and Woodson- he was playing great and everything was hunky-dory before he got hurt and has only been back for a few games- not enough time for something to go truly sour.And let’s face it- he’s gotten 16 shots in two games- he probably should be pissed.No excuse for punching the wall- totally idiotic.

    they’re trying to get him the ball quite a bit. Maybe more isolations for him? You need a skilled passer in the pnr and penetration to get him shots.

  22. Jake S.

    I’d like to visit Lacuna Inc. to erase all memory of ever having rooted for the Knicks.

  23. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin:
    This really is Woodson’s worst nightmare in terms of being the coach next season.

    Probably a blessing in disguise for the team though. Unless of course Calipari is waiting in the wings….

  24. er

    sad chain of events … the body count continues

    Chandler
    Shump
    Lin
    The Baron
    Stat
    Jefferies
    ………………………………………who is next?

  25. Brian Cronin

    I’d almost want Calipari to be the coach just for curiosity’s sake to see just how much of a trainwreck it would be. Melo and Calipari would be one of the most mis-matched star/coach pairs in the NBA.

  26. llcoolbp

    What a terrible end to a fun year. Unreal how fast this entire show has unraveled. I’m numb. Debating whether I even want to watch game 3. This team is nothing like the 90′s Knicks. Those teams went down fighting on the court till the bitter end. These guys are a bunch of gimps!

  27. Brian Cronin

    I dunno, the Knicks did pretty well without Amar’e before. They’ll probably lose Game 3, but I bet they come out strong. Melo at the 4 is a difficult cover for the Heat.

    Davis
    Smith
    Fields
    Melo
    Chandler

    with Novak playing a lot at the 3 and Jeffries at the 5.

    That could be an interesting lineup. Melo, Chandler and Smith just have to be prepared to play 40 minutes apiece.

  28. nicos

    ruruland: they’re trying to get him the ball quite a bit. Maybe more isolations for him? You need a skilled passer in the pnr and penetration to get him shots.

    Well it’s a moot point now but yeah, they could have iso’d him more- he hit a few elbow jumpers and drew a defensive three seconds on iso’s. The one time he got the ball in the post he drew a double and kicked it out to Smith for a wide-open three (which he missed). Smith did get a lay-up on a pnr with Amar’e and Davis hit Chandler for an and-one dunk off a high screen and roll with Amar’e. Melo doens’t seem to like playing pnr with Amar’e (or at all really but esp. with Amar’e)- the one time that Melo didn’t just hold the ball until Amar’e went away he hit him on the roll in the lane for a two-shot foul. I’m not sure having Bibby or Smith run half-hearted pnr’s really constitutes actively trying to get him the ball- Amar’e need a point guard who can at least pretend to penetrate coming off of the screen (which Bibby can’t and JR really hasn’t for whatever reason) so let him catch mid-post and iso as long as he’s hitting his jumper.

  29. ruruland

    nicos: Well it’s a moot point now but yeah, they could have iso’d him more- he hit a few elbow jumpers and drew a defensive three seconds on iso’s. The one time he got the ball in the post he drew a double and kicked it out to Smith for a wide-open three (which he missed). Smith did get a lay-up on a pnr with Amar’e and Davis hit Chandler for an and-one dunk off a high screen and roll with Amar’e. Melo doens’t seem to like playing pnr with Amar’e (or at all really but esp. with Amar’e)- the one time that Melo didn’t just hold the ball until Amar’e went away he hit him on the roll in the lane for a two-shot foul. I’m not sure having Bibby or Smith run half-hearted pnr’s really constitutes actively trying to get him the ball- Amar’e need a point guard who can at least pretend to penetrate coming off of the screen (which Bibby can’t and JR really hasn’t for whatever reason) so let him catch mid-post and iso as long as he’s hitting his jumper.

    Yeah, I would have liked to have seen a few more iso’s as well. It’s truly confouding why they haven’t run pnr with those two.

  30. ruruland

    Amar’e Twitter:

    “I am so mad at myself right now, I want to apologize to the fans and my team, not proud of my actions, headed home for a new start,”

  31. Brian Cronin

    Amar’e need a point guard who can at least pretend to penetrate coming off of the screen (which Bibby can’t and JR really hasn’t for whatever reason)

    One of the most puzzling things for me has been the disappearance of JR Smith’s ability to create for others on penetration. He used to be good at that in Denver. Not Ginobili good, but that same sort of style (just not nearly as good as, come on, Ginobili is amazing in that aspect of his game). Smith still gets assists, but they are not off of penetration. I don’t get it.

  32. ruruland

    According to Stephen A. Smith, all of the Knicks officials he has talked to believe that Amar’e will not be returning to this series.

  33. Doug

    ruruland:
    According to Stephen A. Smith, all of the Knicks officials he has talked to believe that Amar’e will not be returning to this series.

    If it’s Stephen A., it’s either 100% correct or ridiculously false.

  34. Brian Cronin

    It all still sounds really vague. Tyson Chandler, for instance, was the main source in the TNT bit and what does he know, really, besides “Oh man, what a moronic jerk. That looks awful. No way he’s going to be ready to play for Game 3.” Which very well could be true. But it might not be true.

  35. ruruland

    Really Zwerling?

    “If Stoudemire doesn’t play, his energy and playoff leadership will still come in handy on the bench, especially talking to the younger guys and pumping them up. That’s what he’s brought to the court, and there’s no reason why he won’t be another helpful voice on the sideline…………. and now he has to deal with a deep wound that will heal soon.”

  36. TheRant

    I have to call my friend who understands player contracts.

    People keep talking about the $65M remaining on Amare’s contract. Can’t you forfeit your money if you injure yourself other than in the act of playing? Any chance the Garden would try and nullify the contract?

  37. nicos

    TheRant:
    I have to call my friend who understands player contracts.

    People keep talking about the $65M remaining on Amare’s contract.Can’t you forfeit your money if you injure yourself other than in the act of playing?Any chance the Garden would try and nullify the contract?

    If it was a career threatening injury you might have a shot but something that should only keep somebody out what, a couple of weeks at most if it happened during the season (and perhaps not even that, who knows)? No way. Even if there was a legal case to be made- which I doubt- the players association would go ballistic, you’d get no backing from the league, you’d make every player/agent think long and hard before ever signing a contract your team, etc…

  38. Robtachi

    ruruland:
    “i’ll assume what we said the day chandler was acquired has always been a sore spot 4 stat. As TKB has ONLY reported, they tried to trade him”
    “stat was offered for Chris Paul. THat has been a sore spot for the team all year. Word i’m getting is that he’s mad a woodson too.”

    Tommy Dee Knicks Blog

    https://twitter.com/#!/TommyDeeTKB

    No way Amar’e is in Knicks uniform next year.

    At this point, I’d be okay with that since despite whatever sentimental attachment I have to STAT he simply no longer fits within the framework of this team, but what can you possibly get for him? Are the Nets the only organization desperate and stupid enough to make a deal for his bad contract?

  39. 2FOR18

    Thanks for the recap.
    As I said in the game thread, I had Jameson flashbacks re: Jeffries.
    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

  40. JK47

    Can you imagine the reaction if Melo lacerated his hand punching a glass fire extinguisher case because he didn’t get enough shot attempts in a game?

    Amar’e Stoudemire: worst contract in the NBA.

  41. 2FOR18

    ruruland: Totally unmovable? I don’t think so. The guy has scored efficiently post-weight loss and would probably be doing great if he had the correct pieces around him. Amar’e needs a certain set of circumstances to be successful. He can be really really successful when he has them.

    Kind of like melo, as per your posts.

  42. Brian Cronin

    If it was a career threatening injury you might have a shot but something that should only keep somebody out what, a couple of weeks at most if it happened during the season (and perhaps not even that, who knows)? No way. Even if there was a legal case to be made- which I doubt- the players association would go ballistic, you’d get no backing from the league, you’d make every player/agent think long and hard before ever signing a contract your team, etc…

    You beat me to it. Yeah, a career threatening injury would give them a shot, but nothing less than that. They are allowed to suspend him without pay, though, for the duration of the injury if they’d like.

  43. 2FOR18

    llcoolbp:
    What a terrible end to a fun year. Unreal how fast this entire show has unraveled. I’m numb. Debating whether I even want to watch game 3. This team is nothing like the 90?s Knicks. Those teams went down fighting on the court till the bitter end. These guys are a bunch of gimps!

    Yup. I want the no layups rule reinstituted.

  44. Brian Cronin

    I meant to mention this awhile ago but I thank the good lord every day that while we have our ardent Lin defenders here and our ardent Melo defenders, we do not have an ardent STAT defender. That would just be brutal. It hurts my head even imagining what that’d be like. Especially with this stupid piece of jerkery, as you know they’d have to defend him and it’d be this big ol’ thing. So, well, I’m thankful for that, at least.

  45. 2FOR18

    ruruland:
    What happened to Durant?

    15-44 from the field, 9 turnovers 5 assists against the mighty Mavericks defense?

    Yeah, he’s been awful. He has an amazing supporting cast to carry him through his rough games.

  46. Brian Cronin

    By the way, the Mavs actually do have a good defense, don’t they? It is the Mavs’ offense that is their problem. And their best defender is the guy who guards Durant, right? In fact, I could have sworn I read something here about how Harden was able to do well in Game 1 because Marion was guarding Durant and not him.

  47. 2FOR18

    ruruland: Yeah, I would have liked to have seen a few more iso’s as well. It’s truly confouding why they haven’t run pnr with those two.

    Yes. You know bball better then me. Why can’t they maximize Amare and Melo’s talents? It’s infuriating. We need a coaching staff who can figure this out.

  48. ruruland

    2FOR18: Kind of like melo, as per your posts.

    That’s quite reductionist, but sort of. I don’t want to waste bandwidth explaing the difference I think most of us are on the same page here.

  49. BigBlueAL

    I normally wouldnt mind not having Amar’e cause this current roster is probably better off w/o him but the problem now is you will be missing Amar’e and Shump (not to mention Lin obviously). Thats alot of minutes you have to makeup for. Its a good thing they have 2 days off before Games 3, 4 and hopefully 5.

  50. JK47

    I’d love to see Amare’s pitiful no defense-playing, fire extinguisher-punching, .128 WS/48-generating ass get a one-way ticket out of here but we have THREE more years of that albatross contract to look forward to. He’s a one-man glass ceiling. You’d think for $18M a year you’d at least get a little leadership and dignity BUT NOOOOO. What a bum. I hate this freaking team right now.

  51. 2FOR18

    Brian Cronin:
    By the way, I meant to mention this awhile ago but I thank the good lord every day that while we have our ardent Lin defenders here and our ardent Melo defenders, we do not have an ardent STAT defender. That would just be brutal. It hurts my head even imagining what that’d be like. Especially with this stupid piece of jerkery, as you know they’d have to defend him and it’d be this big ol’ thing. So, well, I’m thankful for that, at least.

    Yeah, the melo guys who are upset by the melo criticisms don’t acknowledge how much we bash Amare on here.

  52. ruruland

    2FOR18: Yes. You know bball better then me. Why can’t they maximize Amare and Melo’s talents? It’s infuriating. We need a coaching staff who can figure this out.

    Oh, thought your other post was snide, my bad it wasn’t.

    PG like Lin ties the offense together, allows you to utilize both sides of the court, allows the ball to more frequently enter the paint……

    the problem is that we haven’t seen Amar’e featured as the primary pnr player even with Lin. People talk about Melo and Amar’e being duplicative, which I really don’t agree with per se.

    Want to know who’s redundant in this offense? Chandler and Amar’e.

    Obviously Amar’e is a MUCH MUCH better offensive player who can do a lot more, but the things they do best are exactly the same — pnr.

    So, you start a lot of your offense with pnr as they should with Amar’e and Chandler being the primary option — the problem is that each other’s prescence decreases each other’s effectiveness.

    one sec……

    And so,

  53. ruruland

    With Chandler on the floor, Amar’e's fg% drops 12% and his free throws are down 2.5 per 36 minutes, while Chandlers free throw attempts are up 2.2 with Amar’e on the bench.

    Moreover, there is ZERO DIFFERENCE in Amar’e field goal percentage with Melo on and off the floor, his fta are virtually the same.

    Obviously, this is another one of those media-perpetrated myths and misunderstandings.

    http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player-vs-player.html#Carmelo-Anthony-vs-Amar'e-Stoudemire|2546,2405;year=201112;season=r

  54. Owen

    That is funny…

    sidestep:
    Someone on P&T explained Amare’s action thus: “I think he was jealous of the fire extinguisher’s ability to stop the Heat.” LOL

  55. 2FOR18

    ruruland: Oh, thought your other post was snide, my bad it wasn’t.

    PG like Lin ties the offense together, allows you to utilize both sides of the court, allows the ball to more frequently enter the paint……

    the problem is that we haven’t seen Amar’e featured as the primary pnr player even with Lin. People talk about Melo and Amar’e being duplicative, which I really don’t agree with per se.

    Want to know who’s redundant in this offense? Chandler and Amar’e.

    Obviously Amar’e is a MUCH MUCH better offensive player who can do a lot more, but the things they do best are exactly the same — pnr.

    So, you start a lot of your offense with pnr as they should with Amar’e and Chandler being the primary option — the problem is that each other’s prescence decreases each other’s effectiveness.

    one sec……

    And so,

    Yeah, actually I’m not trying to be a dick for once. I just don’t think this team fits together well. Melo seems at his best when he’s dominating the ball, but he can’t do that all game without wearing out. I think him, Lin and Chandler can work, with Amare being the 2nd team offensive focus. Woodson has shown no inclination to separating melo and Amare and it pisses me off.

  56. Brian Cronin

    Woodson likely doesn’t want to piss any of the star players off. He’s been around, he knows what not to do if you want to keep your job.

  57. JK47

    Sure, move Amar’e to the second unit. I’m sure he’d have the professionalism and ego-lessness to accept being a bench player without throwing childish tantrums. I’m sure that would go smashingly well, pun intended.

  58. Owen

    In Durants defense, he did shoot 16 fts. 26 points on 25 shots. 7 turnovers, he has struggled so far, everyone does in the playoffs generally.

  59. ruruland

    JK47: I’d love to see Amare’s pitiful no defense-playing, fire extinguisher-punching, .128 WS/48-generating ass get a one-way ticket out of here but we have THREE more years of that albatross contract to look forward to. He’s a one-man glass ceiling. You’d think for $18M a year you’d at least get a little leadership and dignity BUT NOOOOO. What a bum. I hate this freaking team right now.

    I Like Amar’e. I think we’ve all made a thoughtless mistake where our reflexes and anger get the best of it.

    But it would make a lot more sense if you could add a floor spacing 4 who could rebound and defend decently. There are desperate teams out there who will look at Amar’e and see a guy who can thrive as he did in NY on a small-ball kind of a team with a decent point guard.

    Anderson is getting a big deal in a year. Given the drops in production we’ve seen with Anderson playing without Dwight, do you think the Magic would want to commit to him as one their top guys for the next 5-6 years?

    Hedo/Anderson for Amar’e… I wonder if they’d think about that.

    Bargani/Klieza for AMar’e

    Biedrins/Richard Jefferson for Amar’e (both Jefferson and Biedrins have two years left, neither fit future plans with GS) maybe GS considers swinging Lee, IDK.

    Would New Orleans consider Amar’e for Okafor and Ariza (how could they not, both guys have tow years on deal)

  60. ruruland

    Owen: In Durants defense, he did shoot 16 fts. 26 points on 25 shots. 7 turnovers, he has struggled so far, everyone does in the playoffs generally.

    Half of those were touch/hand check fouls I’m sure you watched the game.

    The more physical the game, the more contact is allowed, the less effective Durant becomes — by a lot.

    He has that super-high dribble that is very difficult to move through traffic from 25 feet. He typically cuts down on his turnovers because he gets a high rate of touch fouls in the mid-range area (not at the basket)

    What we saw tonight was still a lot of those ticky-tack touch fouls because he is so frail, but we also saw extremely high usage and not quite the normal ratio he gets during the playoffs.

    He and Kevin Martin really have a way of fooling officials because they are so physically weak.

  61. ruruland

    Owen: In Durants defense, he did shoot 16 fts. 26 points on 25 shots. 7 turnovers, he has struggled so far, everyone does in the playoffs generally.

    No comment on the fact that Amar’e's fg% stays the same with Melo on and off, but drops 12 percent when he shares the floor with Chandler.

  62. 2FOR18

    ruruland: I Like Amar’e. I think we’ve all made a thoughtless mistake where our reflexes and anger get the best of it.

    But it would make a lot more sense if you could add a floor spacing 4 who could rebound and defend decently. There are desperate teams out there who will look at Amar’e and see a guy who can thrive as he did in NY on a small-ball kind of a team with a decent point guard.

    Anderson is getting a big deal in a year. Given the drops in production we’ve seen with Anderson playing without Dwight, do you thinkthe Magic would want to commit to him as one their top guys for the next 5-6 years?

    Hedo/Anderson for Amar’e… I wonder if they’d think about that.

    Bargani/Klieza for AMar’e

    Biedrins/Richard Jefferson for Amar’e (both Jefferson and Biedrins have two years left, neither fit future plans with GS) maybe GS considers swinging Lee, IDK.

    Would New Orleans consider Amar’e for Okafor and Ariza (how could they not, both guys have tow years on deal)

    I don’t buy the argument made by some that Amare’s untradeable. There are plenty of teams that no one wants to play for that need to fill their salary cap somehow. The trades you mentioned are all feasible; I’m sure there are other possibilities.

  63. JK47

    I’ve never made a thoughtless mistake that caused me to miss the most crucial part of the year at my job, completely hanging my hard working colleagues out to dry because of my childish behavior.

    There is no Amar’e trade I would not make, because there is no worse contract in the NBA. An inefficient volume scorer who doesn’t play defense, melts down and injures himself when he doesn’t get enough shot attempts and whose knees are made out of paper maiche? Who has three years of a max contract left? Where
    do I sign up for that? Oh and did I mention he has a bad back?

    I’ll be surprised if the guy is still able to pull a uniform on in year 5 of that contract.

  64. Brian Cronin

    I think everyone has already pretty much agreed that Amar’e and Chandler are a bigger mismatch together than Amar’e and Melo. The problem with Amar’e and Melo is not that Melo hurts STAT’s game (like Chandler does) but rather it is that he does not help STA’T's game. That they don’t optimize each other’s skills playing together, because Amar’e's whole skill is that he is an efficient scorer, and yet when he is out there with Melo, Melo is the guy who is getting the shots not Amar’e and, again, Amar’e is only here because of his scoring. Note that he takes three more field goal attempts with Melo off the court than he does without Melo while his field goal percentage remains the same. So he increases production without losing any efficiency. That’s fairly notable, right?

    When you couple that with the fact that Melo’s stats are better when he plays without Amar’e (increased field goal attempts and significantly increased efficiency), the argument that they are not a good pair together still seems sound.

    The Amar’e/Chandler mismatch is just even worse.

  65. ruruland

    2FOR18: I don’t buy the argument made by some that Amare’s untradeable. There are plenty of teams that no one wants to play for that need to fill their salary cap somehow. The trades you mentioned are all feasible; I’m sure there are other possibilities.

    Another thing to think about here is possibly trading Amar’e for a 3 or a 2 or whatever, sliding Melo to the 4 full-time where he’s excellent defensively, and taking a look at this Jordan kid (and get Harrelson more time)…..

  66. ruruland

    Brian Cronin: I think everyone has already pretty much agreed that Amar’e and Chandler are a bigger mismatch together than Amar’e and Melo. The problem with Amar’e and Melo is not that Melo hurts STAT’s game (like Chandler does) but rather it is that he does not help STA’T's game. That they don’t optimize each other’s skills playing together, because Amar’e's whole skill is that he is an efficient scorer, and yet when he is out there with Melo, Melo is the guy who is getting the shots not Amar’e and, again, Amar’e is only here because of his scoring. Note that he takes three more field goal attempts with Melo off the court than he does without Melo while his field goal percentage remains the same. So he increases production without losing any efficiency. That’s fairly notable, right?

    When you couple that with the fact that Melo’s stats are better when he plays without Amar’e (increased field goal attempts and significantly increased efficiency), the argument that they are not a good pair together still seems sound.

    The Amar’e/Chandler mismatch is just even worse.

    Right. what abou the idea of moving Ama’re, and instead of trying to find a spread 4 who bangs, move Melo to the 4 and have Harrelson and Jordan as your bigs behind Chandler.

    In this scenario, you move Amar’e for a small forward who can defend and make open jump shots — there are a lot of those — taking on whatever bad contract you need to.

    If you take in, what 85% of the salary, you may still have time/money to sign Novak and or JR Smith.But you’ll be trading for a 3 or 2 anyway.

  67. Doug

    JK47: I’ve never made a thoughtless mistake that caused me to miss the most crucial part of the year at my job, completely hanging my hard working colleagues out to dry because of my childish behavior.

    Words cannot express how much contempt I have for this line of reasoning.

    What’s next, you’re going to tell us you’d play in the NBA for free if you only had the chance?

  68. JK47

    Priority #1 in the offseason absolutely has to be moving Amar’e. The argument that the team owes Amar’e something because he brought legitimacy to the organization has just gone completely out the window. He’s gotta go.

  69. ruruland

    Some examples of that scenario that seem plausible as fuck:

    Amar’e for Jason Richardson and Hedo Turkoglu

    Amar’e for Anthony Morrow and Gerald Wallace (this is great trade for both teams)

    Amar’e for John Salmons and Chuck Hayes (this is a great trade)

    A lot of extraneous pieces in Portland.

  70. JK47

    Doug: Words cannot express how much contempt I have for this line of reasoning.

    What’s next, you’re going to tell us you’d play in the NBA for free if you only had the chance?

    I have contempt for the “we’ve all done something stupid” defense. Actually, no we haven’t.

    The list of athletes who have missed crucial playoff games because of hissy fits is vanishingly small and populated entirely by idiots.

  71. Brian Cronin

    I still think that there is a chance that the Knicks can get David Lee for STAT if the Knicks take Biedrins back, as well.

    Ah, who am I kidding, there’s no one good you can get for STAT.

  72. ruruland

    JK47: Priority #1 in the offseason absolutely has to be moving Amar’e. The argument that the team owes Amar’e something because he brought legitimacy to the organization has just gone completely out the window. He’s gotta go.

    Seriosuly, how great is this move Melo to the 4 and trade Amar’e for a 3 who can shoot idea??????

  73. ruruland

    Brian Cronin: I still think that there is a chance that the Knicks can get David Lee for STAT if the Knicks take Biedrins back, as well. Ah, who am I kidding, there’s no one good you can get for STAT.

    What about Gerald Wallace?????

    Or Hedo/Richardson…. Orlando would slide Amar’e to 5 and play Anderson at 4– they would be deadly.

    John Salmons is a good player.

  74. Brian Cronin

    Wallace is a free agent. Who knows where he wants to go. And honestly, choosing between STAT and Morrow/re-signed to big money Wallace (as he’d have to be for the deal to work), I’d rather just keep STAT.

    Hedo/Richardson, I guess I’d do, but even there, I don’t know where Hedo would fit in (Richardson would fit everywhere, he’s a versatile player). That trade would also require the Magic to deal Howard, and I dunno if that necessarily happens this offseason.

    Salmons/Hayes is a great deal for the Knicks, but not for the Kings.

  75. ruruland

    Brian Cronin: Wallace is a free agent. Who knows where he wants to go. And honestly, choosing between STAT and Morrow/re-signed to big money Wallace (as he’d have to be for the deal to work), I’d rather just keep STAT.Hedo/Richardson, I guess I’d do.Salmons/Hayes is a great deal for the Knicks, but not for the Kings.

    WHat????? Wallace and Morrow you poo-poo???

    Wallace is still 29, still a great rebounder and good defender. He’s just played on some awful teams and was a bad fit in Portland. He’d be a perfect fit in alongside Lin,Chandler,Shump and Melo –that would be a fantastic lineup.

    You’re saying Sacramento isn’t taking on any contracts right now? Don’t they want a big name in their new home? That’s a great deal for them…. They give away nothing to get a big name that can still play.

  76. 2FOR18

    ruruland: What about Gerald Wallace?????

    Or Hedo/Richardson…. Orlando would slide Amar’e to 5 and play Anderson at 4– they would be deadly.

    John Salmons is a good player.

    I like some of your ideas re: Amare but Salmons sucks real bad. Once he got paid he got paid he’s been worthless.

  77. Brian Cronin

    I like some of your ideas re: Amare but Salmons sucks real bad. Once he got paid he got paid he’s been worthless.

    But Hayes is a perfect fit for the Knicks. He’s worth taking Salmons. I don’t think the Kings would take STAT, but Hayes is more than worth it.

  78. yellowboy90

    ruruland: What about Gerald Wallace?????

    Or Hedo/Richardson…. Orlando would slide Amar’e to 5 and play Anderson at 4– they would be deadly.

    John Salmons is a good player.

    I guess Howard is gone? Also Orlando will have to blow up there roster because their real pg(Hedo) is gone and Nelson will not get the ball to STAT like he needs it.

    I like the Hornets trade. Also add that Houston might be nice. Scola, S&T with Lee, and Parsons(I’m a Gator fan) plus Lowery. Give them a little room to keep Dragic. I would also throw in Douglas. Even Fields if it would get Parsons. Bias aside he is basically a longer Fields that can guard. Only difference is that Parson stroke is not totally broken. Form is good it just need time.

  79. Brian Cronin

    WHat????? Wallace and Morrow you poo-poo???

    Wallace is still 29, still a great rebounder and good defender. He’s just played on some awful teams and was a bad fit in Portland. He’d be a perfect fit in alongside Lin,Chandler,Shump and Melo –that would be a fantastic lineup.

    Wallace would be a good fit next season, agreed. But again, he is a free agent. He is 29. To get him, the Knicks would have to have him re-sign to a contract worth too much for too many years. Wallace is already on the decline phase at 29. He’s going to be an ugly player in three years.

  80. nicos

    Brian Cronin:
    I meant to mention this awhile ago but I thank the good lord every day that while we have our ardent Lin defenders here and our ardent Melo defenders, we do not have an ardent STAT defender. That would just be brutal. It hurts my head even imagining what that’d be like. Especially with this stupid piece of jerkery, as you know they’d have to defend him and it’d be this big ol’ thing. So, well, I’m thankful for that, at least.

    Well, I’ll defend the fire extinguisher thing at least a bit- it’s not like he hauled off and punched the thing. He hit something that for a 6′ 10″ guy is at about waist level with the side of his off hand- he happened to do a harmless wall slap in the one 6″ space where it could have possibly done any damage. Two, if in fact he’s pissed about not getting enough shots (and I wouldn’t really blame him) he hasn’t done what many guys do in the same situation and that’s starting to wildly chuck up shots every time you touch the ball. Is banging the wall when you’re pissed really worse than quitting on defense and breaking plays on offense (though Amar’e might have stopped trying on defense- there’s no way to really tell)?

    And I think Amar’e and Melo can co-exist on offense- the offense certainly wasn’t the problem last year. I’d agree with Ruru that Chandler/Amare is much more of an issue but Amar’e was playing pretty well post all-star break even with Chandler on the floor before the back injury- they just started using him as the primary pnr guy instead of Chandler and he was fine. Amar’e's lower field goal % with Chandler probably had more to do with how many jumpers he was taking early in the season- I’d interested to see the splits from that post all-star game stretch. I would really prefer seeing what this team could do with everyone healthy and with Lin at the point rather than just…

  81. 2FOR18

    ruruland: WHat????? Wallace and Morrow you poo-poo???

    Wallace is still 29, still a great rebounder and good defender. He’s just played on some awful teams and was a bad fit in Portland. He’d be a perfect fit in alongside Lin,Chandler,Shump and Melo –that would be a fantastic lineup.

    You’re saying Sacramento isn’t taking on any contracts right now? Don’t they want a big name in their new home?That’s a great deal for them…. They give away nothing to get a big name that can still play.

    I would sign up right now for Wallace and Morrow for Amare. That’s a no brainer. I think the Nets are the team we should be working with re: Amare; at least Amare gets to stay in NY so we’re not totally screwing him over, and the Nets need a “star”.

  82. ruruland

    2FOR18: I like some of your ideas re: Amare but Salmons sucks real bad. Once he got paid he got paid he’s been worthless.

    He was awful this year but would only have one year left. When he’s motivated he’s an ultra versatile player — exactly what you need to beat the Heat.

  83. Brian Cronin

    Well, I’ll defend the fire extinguisher thing at least a bit- it’s not like he hauled off and punched the thing. He hit something that for a 6? 10? guy is at about waist level with the side of his off hand- he happened to do a harmless wall slap in the one 6? space where it could have possibly done any damage. Two, if in fact he’s pissed about not getting enough shots (and I wouldn’t really blame him) he hasn’t done what many guys do in the same situation and that’s starting to wildly chuck up shots every time you touch the ball. Is banging the wall when you’re pissed really worse than quitting on defense and breaking plays on offense (though Amar’e might have stopped trying on defense- there’s no way to really tell)?

    He smashed a glass case. That’s never going to end well.

    And I think Amar’e and Melo can co-exist on offense- the offense certainly wasn’t the problem last year. I’d agree with Ruru that Chandler/Amare is much more of an issue but Amar’e was playing pretty well post all-star break even with Chandler on the floor before the back injury- they just started using him as the primary pnr guy instead of Chandler and he was fine. Amar’e’s lower field goal % with Chandler probably had more to do with how many jumpers he was taking early in the season- I’d interested to see the splits from that post all-star game stretch. I would really prefer seeing what this team could do with everyone healthy and with Lin at the point rather than just…

    Honestly, I’m totally cool with bringing him back and seeing if a healthy squad can do some damage, if only because I don’t think the Knicks will be able to get anyone good enough to make it worth their while to trade STAT.

  84. 2FOR18

    yellowboy90: I guess Howard is gone? Also Orlando will have to blow up there roster because their real pg(Hedo) is gone and Nelson will not get the ball to STAT like he needs it.

    I like the Hornets trade. Also add that Houston might be nice. Scola, S&T with Lee, and Parsons(I’m a Gator fan) plus Lowery. Give them a little room to keep Dragic. I would also throw in Douglas. Even Fields if it would get Parsons. Bias aside he is basically a longer Fields that can guard. Only difference is that Parson stroke is not totally broken. Form is good it just need time.

    Hou is too smart for that but I would love it. I love Scola and Parsons.

  85. ruruland

    Brian Cronin: But Hayes is a perfect fit for the Knicks. He’s worth taking Salmons. I don’t think the Kings would take STAT, but Hayes is more than worth it.

    Hayes is great.

    Why don’t you think the Kings would take STAT? I think you’re underestimating his appeal still, his ability to score when he’s the man, and get butts in the seats.

    Bad teams in the early phases of a rebuild — who’re already stockpiled with picks— can use a guy like Amar’e. They’ll still be a lottery team.

  86. ruruland

    nicos: Well, I’ll defend the fire extinguisher thing at least a bit- it’s not like he hauled off and punched the thing. He hit something that for a 6? 10? guy is at about waist level with the side of his off hand- he happened to do a harmless wall slap in the one 6? space where it could have possibly done any damage. Two, if in fact he’s pissed about not getting enough shots (and I wouldn’t really blame him) he hasn’t done what many guys do in the same situation and that’s starting to wildly chuck up shots every time you touch the ball. Is banging the wall when you’re pissed really worse than quitting on defense and breaking plays on offense (though Amar’e might have stopped trying on defense- there’s no way to really tell)? And I think Amar’e and Melo can co-exist on offense- the offense certainly wasn’t the problem last year. I’d agree with Ruru that Chandler/Amare is much more of an issue but Amar’e was playing pretty well post all-star break even with Chandler on the floor before the back injury- they just started using him as the primary pnr guy instead of Chandler and he was fine. Amar’e’s lower field goal % with Chandler probably had more to do with how many jumpers he was taking early in the season- I’d interested to see the splits from that post all-star game stretch. I would really prefer seeing what this team could do with everyone healthy and with Lin at the point rather than just…

    You think? Even given how well Melo defended the 4′s this year. I mean, think about this, you move Melo to the 4 and you bring in a 3 who can absolutely torch slow-footed 4s. Wallace would kill 4s. Both Melo and Wallce can guard 4s all day.

    How does Bosh defend a 3 that can really move and shoot?

    See, the whole thing here is to get the Heat to react to you. This would do that big time. Now you get their shot-blocking off the floor.

  87. Brian Cronin

    Bad teams in the early phases of a rebuild — who’re already stockpiled with picks— can use a guy like Amar’e. They’ll still be a lottery team.

    The fact that they’d still be a lottery team is why they wouldn’t do it. Why would you pick up a guy in the decline phase of his career (who is already showing a significant decline) with an uninsurable contract when you don’t have a point guard who plays the game the way the new $20 million player likes and there’s no guarantee (heck, there might not even be a likelihood) that the guy will still be good when your team is finally ready to compete? When you throw in that the player you’re currently building your team around plays the 4 (and there’s a decent chance that you’ll be able to draft one of the good 4/5′s in the draft), it just doesn’t make sense.

  88. ruruland

    Look, I want Amar’e to work here, too. And I think there’s a possiblity it can work. I just think this incident gives you a reason to move him, and that might be unfair.

    I just think the key to going all the way is defensive versatility. You can never maximize Amar’e offense here to make-up for his defense. Melo defends at a much higher level, especially against power forwards.

    Sliding him up and then getting a guy who can space the floor, playmake, defend, beat 4s to the basket — that would truly make this a complete team.

  89. JK47

    The only type of team that would take Stat is a desperate team run by people who aren’t very smart. So we should probably be looking to deal with Brooklyn.

  90. ruruland

    Brian Cronin: The fact that they’d still be a lottery team is why they wouldn’t do it. Why would you pick up a guy in the decline phase of his career (who is already showing a significant decline) with an uninsurable contract when you don’t have a point guard who plays the game the way the new $20 million player likes and there’s no guarantee (heck, there might not even be a likelihood) that the guy will still be good when your team is finally ready to compete? When you throw in that the player you’re currently building your team around plays the 4 (and there’s a decent chance that you’ll be able to draft one of the good 4/5?s in the draft), it just doesn’t make sense.

    It makes sense for an ownership group on a shoestring budget looking to have a name and a few wins in their new city/building. How much more do they make with Amar’e? I’d say quite a bit more. Byt the time his deal is about up, they’ll be ready to move on.

  91. yellowboy90

    2FOR18: Hou is too smart for that but I would love it. I love Scola and Parsons.

    I don’t know man. Dragic and STAt would be nice. Also, there are teams that will blame Melo for STAT short cumming. Hopefully? Please.

  92. nicos

    As for trading Amar’e: I’m with Brian- Wallace at the dollars/years it’d take to get it done would be a mistake. If Sacto was moving they might have bitten on Stat but with the move still on hold I doubt they have any interest. Golden State- Biedrins, Jefferson no thanks- neither guy helps and you’re stuck with them for two more years to boot. They might consider Lee & Biedrins- Lee’s contract looks pretty bad right now and they’d actually save money on the deal. I’m not a big D Lee fan but I’d probably go for that. If you’re going to just dump him the best trade would be for Rashard Lewis and use the money for a free agent in 2013 but you have to think with Nene there Washington would prefer the cap space themselves.

  93. Brian Cronin

    I’d like the Washington trade if only to see Washington try to build a team out of just getting players via salary dumps who don’t want to be there.

    By the way, if they got Lewis, Melo would have to stay at the 3, no? Or do you figure it would be one of those things where Melo and Lewis would just be “forwards,” with the 3/4 designation being unimportant?

    David Lee would fit in nicely with the current Knick personnel. He’d be the back-up 5 and he’d be a 4 who could actually help move the ball.

  94. JK47

    If there’s a way to make the Gerald Wallace thing work I’d be all over that. Wallace would need an extension, and would probably be overpaid but surely he wouldn’t command a contract as hefty as STAT’s. Maybe you get Wallace to extend for a not-exorbitant amount and use the savings to patch other holes. Are there any cap experts out there who can can comment on the viability of this scenario?

  95. 2FOR18

    nicos:
    As for trading Amar’e: I’m with Brian- Wallace at the dollars/years it’d take to get it done would be a mistake.If Sacto was moving they might have bitten on Stat but with the move still on hold I doubt they have any interest.Golden State- Biedrins, Jefferson no thanks- neither guy helps and you’re stuck with them for two more years to boot.They might consider Lee & Biedrins- Lee’s contract looks pretty bad right now and they’d actually save money on the deal.I’m not a big D Lee fan but I’d probably go for that.If you’re going to just dump him the best trade would be for Rashard Lewis and use the money for a free agent in 2013 but you have to think with Nene there Washington would prefer the cap space themselves.

    Yeah, Wash has Nene, Booker and Seraphin so Amare makes no sense for them, but you can’t underestimate the “star” factor when dealing with these shortsighted front offices, so who knows.

  96. Brian Cronin

    If there’s a way to make the Gerald Wallace thing work I’d be all over that. Wallace would need an extension, and would probably be overpaid but surely he wouldn’t command a contract as hefty as STAT’s. Maybe you get Wallace to extend for a not-exorbitant amount and use the savings to patch other holes. Are there any cap experts out there who can can comment on the viability of this scenario?

    For the aforementioned Wallace/Morrow trade, Wallace would need to be signed for a little more than $10 million a year for the trade to work. In other words, the Knicks would have to give him a raise over his current salary, which is probably already more than Wallace is worth. And since Wallace would need to agree to the deal, you figure they’d have to commit to at least four years for him to go for it (remember, he already turned down 2 years/$18 million by opting out). So Gerald Wallace for $40 million over four years. That’s too much.

  97. JK47

    Maybe he’d take 3/30. $30M for three years of Gerald Wallace sounds a hell of a lot better to me than $54M for three years of Amar’e Stoudemire, that’s for sure.

  98. nicos

    Brian Cronin:
    I’d like the Washington trade if only to see Washington try to build a team out of just getting players via salary dumps who don’t want to be there.

    By the way, if they got Lewis, Melo would have to stay at the 3, no? Or do you figure it would be one of those things where Melo and Lewis would just be “forwards,” with the 3/4 designation being unimportant?

    David Lee would fit in nicely with the current Knick personnel. He’d be the back-up 5 and he’d be a 4 who could actually help move the ball.

    I think Lewis would be sitting on the bench in a suit and tie with some imaginary injury or a tenth man at best- he’s an expiring contract that lets you sign someone who might really help the team in 2013- not some marginal dreck you’re taking back and paying for the next two/three years without them taking the team to the next level. If the goal is a championship guys like Hedo, Wallace, or even Lee aren’t getting you there- you’d give up a year of Melo and Chandler in their prime but you might get back someone (or maybe two role guys who really fit what you want to do) in free agency that actually put you over the top.

  99. Brian Cronin

    I know Lewis’ primary value would be his expiring contract, but you really don’t think he’d play at all for the Knicks?

    I mean, in the alternate universe where Washington would actually trade Lewis for STAT (which is not this universe), that is.

  100. nicos

    Gerald Wallace’s rebound rate has dropped from 14.7 to 10.8 in the last two years, his free throw attempts from 6.3 to 3.9. That’s a pretty scary decline if you’re thinking about signing him for more than a couple of years.

  101. Brian Cronin

    Yep. I used to love Wallace. Heck, I bet if you did a search of the archives you might find me talking about how underrated he was back in 2008 or whenever. But he seems to be in a major decline phase.

  102. nicos

    Brian Cronin:
    I know Lewis’ primary value would be his expiring contract, but you really don’t think he’d play at all for the Knicks?

    I mean, in the alternate universe where Washington would actually trade Lewis for STAT (which is not this universe), that is.

    He’d probably take Novak’s place in the rotation but would get fewer minutes. As I’ve said I don’t think anyone’s taking Amar’e unless the contracts we’re getting back are just as bad- Washington trading Lewis is just about as likely as most of the other trades that were proposed- not very- but at least it does have the possibility of moving the Knicks into serious contention while the others (at least IMO) really don’t.

  103. cypes

    does anyone realize mia is the favorite to win the chip the knicks have been thru all kind of changes no pg/coaching change/injuries/and the heat in the first round can we hold of on the negative talk at least until the series is over.keep the team intact wit pg training camp and woody damn we change shit up so much we never stay the course

  104. mj1

    Dude, just want to say thanks for an entertaining blog. Yours is the best one out there. It’s been hilarious all season. I really appreciate the humor after what has been nothing worse than a complete crash and burn of a playoffs. Unless some miracle happens, like Lin coming back and giving the NYK 30/10 and at the same time STAT pulls a Willis Reed, this one trick pony of a team is done. Hope you’ll be around during the off-season. They’ll be lots to talk about.

  105. bobneptune

    Brian Cronin:

    David Lee would fit in nicely with the current Knick personnel. He’d be the back-up 5 and he’d be a 4 who could actually help move the ball.

    please with the david lee stuff. i realize he is well liked here after putting up numbers in the d’antoni system on 30 win teams, but he is a horrible long contract, too.

    the only way he would make any sense here would be if big chief triangle came to ny. lee would make the almost perfect mid post initiator of the triangle as his best skills are catching the ball and a top passer for a 4/5. defense isn’t at a premium for the 5 in the triangle (wennington, longley, cartwright)

    putting lee in the mid post flanked by melo and shumpert on the right side forming the triangle with lin at the top of the key and chandler away from the ball (as far as humanly possible) might just work. this also allows chandler free run to crash the offensive boards from the weak side.

    lee’s deficiencies on the defensive end could be hidden by cross matching with chandler on the defensive end and chandler backstopping him.

    the more i think about it the better i like it.

    i just don’t see how amar’e and carmelo can play on the same floor at the same time. i’m sure amar’e punching the glass had everything to do with melo heaving up 26 shots while amar’e was 6-9 from the floor.

  106. d-mar

    The Amare thing makes me incredibly angry, but also incredibly sad. I was a huge fan when he came here and personally revitalized the franchise, saying and doing all the right things, becoming a part of the NY culture etc. And he seemed like a good guy also.

    Now his career is nosediving, and his punching the fire extinguisher is almost a coda. Do you remember at the beginning of the season when we were talking about having the best front line in the NBA with Chandler, Melo and STAT? Now all we’re talking about is what garbage we can dump Amare for.

    Just really depressing.

  107. soultrane

    Brooklyn isn’t taking Amare off your hands, sorry to say. I’d rather we resign Humphries than take on that disaster of a contract.

  108. Gamecockerbocker

    “When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.” I fucking love this website more and more every day.

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