Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Friday, July 25, 2014

Hahn Moves Off ‘Melo

Being the parent of two children under 5, I know what it’s like to have someone fixated on an object of desire. From an adult’s perspective it’s amazing how children can break social norms when they’re obsessing. Whether it’s wanting to hear that song for the 12th time in a row, saying your name for the 30th straight time, or asking for something you just said no to, kids take infatuation to a whole other level.

Being a Knick fan, it’s hard not to notice the similarities between children and sports fans. New York has been engrossed in getting Carmelo Anthony in orange and blue, and I’ve just about had enough of that. Luckily so has Alan Hahn! In a recent column, he talks about some of the other options the Knicks have if Carmelo heads elsewhere. Here’s my take on his take:

* – PORTLAND: … Both Marcus Camby and Andre Miller would be great fits. If not Camby, who last season expressed a strong interest in returning to New York, Joel Przybilla could be another option. With the revelation of his knee issues, does anyone take a chance on acquiring Brandon Roy? Probably not with five years and $82M left on his contract.

Sorry, I just don’t see Andre Miller fitting in with this team. He’s a career 20.5% shooter from downtown, and has never cracked 30% in a season. Guys in D’Antoni’s offense get a ton of looks from three; the lowest average for a non-center this year is 2.8 3pa/36. Camby has never been an efficient scorer, but he’s rebounding and blocking shots at a good rate. Meanwhile Przybilla is like Camby but with efficient scoring. Unfortunately la scimmia vaniglia is often la scimmia feriti (injured). Obviously a healthy Przybilla is the best option of the group, especially since his contract expires this summer (Camby has 2 years left).

CLEVELAND: Anderson Varejao is a franchise favorite and loved by the fans there, but his contract is an albatross, especially when you consider how he’s not nearly as effective without LeBron on the floor. But next to Stoudemire, he’d be the perfect complement for his hustle, rebounding and defense.

The NBA’s answer to Troy Polamalu would be a bit reminiscent of Charles Oakley. Varejao is a low volume-high efficiency scorer, a good rebounder, and a tenacious defender. But that contract would hinder the Knicks in the long term. It doesn’t expire until 2014, and takes up $7M-$9M a year. My brain says he brings a few things the Knicks need, but I’m not sure if he fits with this team, especially with that kind of commitment.

* – MEMPHIS: … Mayo is miserable as a reserve in his third NBA season. The cost-conscious Grizz would move him, I’m told, to save the $5.6M salary next season and then restricted free agency in 2012. Mayo would be a nice third guard — he’s not really a point guard, but he could be effective in the pick-and-roll — and another young player to develop. Forget uberbust Hasheem Thabeet, but another thought off that roster is Marc Gasol, who is headed toward restricted free agency. He is the perfect big man for the Knicks system — high IQ player who can pass, shoot, rebound and defend the rim — but what I’m hearing is the Grizz don’t want to lose another Gasol. They’ll throw money at him just like they did Rudy Gay. So with that in mind, if you’re the Knicks, do you consider Zach Randolph?

Hahn’s right that Mayo is more of a combo guard than point guard. Essentially he appears to be a taller Toney Douglas, if you take away the steals and throw in a better three point shot. At $5M per year (expires next summer) and only 23 years old, it’s not a bad gamble. Marc Gasol would obviously be a coup; he’s an uber-efficient center that can pass and defend a little. I can see him playing a Lee-esque perimter point center role for D’Antoni. I’ll skip over to Zach Randolph. Ummm… make that I’ll skip over Zach Randolph. Like Miller, he’s an awful three point shooter (28.4%), and he’ll get (and miss) a lot of them for coach D.

* – ATLANTA: Following our trend of bringing back ex-Knicks who fared well in D’Antoni’s system, Jamal Crawford … Crawford could be an option for the Knicks as a free agent.

* – GOLDEN STATE: [Monta Ellis is] a ridiculously prolific scorer who might make for a great pick-and-roll tandem with Stoudemire. Then again, he might also be a maddening teammate for Stoudemire, considering how little Ellis looks to pass. Probably not the right fit here, especially since he’d have to play the two-guard spot and just does not defend.

For some reason Crawford has become an efficient scorer now that he’s left New York. If I could be guaranteed that would be the Jamal the Knicks would get, I’d take him on a half year rental. But to sign him as a free agent seems to be a bad move. I can’t imagine him getting more efficient now that he’s hit 30. And you can get 90% of what Jamal brings at 25% of the cost (he’s making $10M this year). You could say the same for Ellis (OK, maybe only 80%), but his contract runs at $11m per year until 2014.

* – MINNESOTA: … Ridnour has the skill set and court vision to run this system well, but the T-Wolves like him for all the same reasons on a young team, especially with Jonny Flynn just coming back from injury. They’d be more than willing to give up Sebastian Telfair, whom the Knicks have considered, but is he really an upgrade over Toney Douglas?

Ridnour would be a solid but unspectacular backup point guard, while Telfair would be cheaper with perhaps a tad higher upside. Ridnour has 4 years left at a reasonable $4M per; Bassy’s $2.7M expires this year. Considering how much Kahn likes all his guards to be pointy, I don’t see Ridnour being pried away cheaply.

* – KINGS: Jason Thompson is a nice player who is struggling there and the New Jersey native might do well next to a star big man such as Stoudemire. Thompson can rebound, which the Knicks need, and can run the floor. His mid-range game is decent and he also has good hands. … Another thought off this roster? Beno Udrih.

Jason Thompson is young, and can rebound. But his efficiency is sub-par (52.8 TS%), and he doesn’t block a lot of shots (1.0 blk/36). He’s got 3 years left on a deal that peaks at $4M, so as a backup they could do a lot worse. But if I’m looking for a decent big man, and prefer a little upside, then I’d rather take a shot at Nick Fazekas, who is pulling down 10.5 reb/36 for Reno. As for Beno, is it me or does his 3p% fluctuate by 50 or more points every year? Additionally his contract is a bit large for a backup PG ($7.8M in 2013). One guy that Hahn didn’t mention is Luther Head – a ridiculously cheap combo guard, although it’s questionable if he’ll see any rotation minutes in New York.

OTHER IDEAS: The Bobcats are in a tailspin and you can imagine what that’s going to lead to with impetuous personalities like Larry Brown and Michael Jordan in the mix. There’s little off that roster to like, but remember Boris Diaw was always loved by this coaching staff and has played alongside Stoudemire in the past in Phoenix.

Hahn goes on to mention other players as well including Jared Jeffries, Rafer Alston, Jason Williams, Earl Watson, and Robin Lopez. Of these only Lopez is of any serious interest. At only 22 he’s a highly efficient-medium usage shot blocker. If he were a better rebounder, he’d be a shoe in. Instead he’d be a good alternative to Turiaf when the Knicks need a little more scoring. Certainly that would be a no-brainer.

As for the Bobcats, Hahn fails to bring up Gerald Wallace; a player I’m a bit torn on. His efficiency was high for 5 years (TS% from 54.7% to 58.6%), he’d probably get more good looks around the rim for D’Antoni, and he’s a good rebounder for a small forward. Unfortunately for an athletic guy his blocked shots aren’t as you’d expect, and he’s another player who struggles from downtown (31.7% 3p%). His contract runs 3 years topping at $11.3M, and who knows what Jordan will ask for his services. Finally, he’s similar to a player New York already has, Wilson Chandler, although I guess that wouldn’t be an issue to have two athletic players of that type on the floor at the same time.

All in all, there are some good players to be had, but others that New York should avoid. From my perspective Gasol and Przybilla should be their top options, with Lopez, Ridnour, and Camby right behind. If they grabbed Varejao, Mayo, or Wallace, then the Knicks should make sure D’Antoni is on board with the move, good, bad, or ugly.

One thing we know about Donnie Walsh is that he’s active, although he’s less impulsive than his predecessor. If the Knicks don’t get Carmelo Anthony, it won’t be because Walsh didn’t try. Luckily he’ll more likely than not bring some other players in an effort to improve this team. And for those fixated on a certain former Orangeman, here are a bunch of players to get that other song out of your head.

40 comments on “Hahn Moves Off ‘Melo

  1. Count Zero

    I really can’t wait for the ‘Melo saga to end — perhaps that’s because I really don’t want him unless we get him cheap and I want the issue to close so I don’t have to continue worrying that we’re going to trade Gallo, AR, Fields and Curry’s expiring for him. I just don’t think ‘Melo addresses our key weakness, and I do believe he’s overrated.

    From your list, I would go Gasol (not realistic IMO), Varejao, Lopez, Camby in that order. I really think we need that interior help and I’m not as high on Przybilla (due to injury risk) as some are. I see the need for a backup PG as well, but I think interior D is a bigger problem.

    The Varejao contract is kind of ugly, but he’s young and brings something this team desperately needs, so I’m OK with locking that up for four years. The Oakley factor is prominent in my mind as well. I could also see Varejao being very effective when teams drop off him to double STAT inside — Amar’e could get a lot of dimes in that scenario.

  2. alsep73

    Sideshow Bob does seem to be exactly what the team needs right now, but he would take us out of Melo contention even if he makes it to free agency this summer. (And out of contention for most free agents, other than resigning Chandler.) While the team desperately needs interior defense (as well as a backup PG), I do think there’s some merit to the idea that we need a reliable second scorer for when defenses shut down Amar’e. If we think Wilson or Gallo can be that guy – both have the talent but have been inconsistent when it counts – than I can deal with trading Curry and spare parts for Varejao. If not, I’d rather go for somebody like Pryzbilla who could help right now but still leave us free agency flexibility, because we’d be largely locked into our roster for a while after Varejao comes.

  3. Garson

    If we miss melo, i think the move is to get AI and Verajao this year. Gasol is the only player i would hold out for , however there is no way Memphis is letting him go.

    I also think it wont take much as both teams are looking to reduce salaries so we would not be losing a significant amount.

    Felton , Iguodala, Gallo, Amare and Verajao is a very very tough linueup to score against and would thrive in transition. They are also closer to the upstart of their careers and would only get better in time. Outside shooting is still an issue but can be fixed.

  4. ess-dog

    Mike Kurylo: Glad to see 2 people that aren’t on vacation. :-D  

    Ess-dog’s in the house (at least until the boss gets in.)
    Excellent list. I too would love to grab Gasol the Younger. But what would it take? They like Chandler, but we may have to add a big (Moz or AR) and maybe even a pic or some sort.
    I think a lineup of Felton/Fields/Gallo/STAT/Gasol would be pretty nice. 4 above average players and a star. Is it enough to get by the Heat and Celts? Hell no. But we could go toe to toe with Atlanta and Orlando.
    On the other side of the fence, a trade for Melo would = a lineup of Felton/JR Smith or TD/Melo/Williams or Chandler/Stat which is a kind of ugly, unsuitable lineup. Moz might even have to start. So that’s 1 bad player, 1 average player who’s a nutjob, an above average player and 2 “stars”.
    Clearly there is no way to vie for a title this year, nor next year either.
    I think an interesting option might be to aim for Deron in 2012 and play him next to a re-signed Felton (God, I sound like Kahn.)
    But seriously, DWill is lighting it up and has the size to play the 2 easily. Then you can bring Gallo or Fields off the bench with Stat and Gasol in the post.

  5. Nick C.

    Does Hahn have a clue or he just throwing out random brain farts? Andre Miller, Zach Randolph, Jamal. Does he have any idea the revolt or revulsion bringing back Zach would cause? Camby is probabaly the best of the lot. Other than b/c he is good but because he shoots jump shots whereas Pryzbilla does not. You can almost predict the “clogs up, spacing” comments if Pryzbilla was here and not getting much PT. Jason Thompson has been starting the last two weeks it seems Landry is the guy on the outs in Sacramento. For that matter Dalembert is not playing a whole lot. Mayo is allegedly not thrilled coming off the bench in Maemphis so why suggest he is a third guard. To be honest Mike’s ideas make mroe sense but then again he is the Knickerblogger whereas Hahn is whatever exactly he is (Cindy Adams of the NBA).

  6. G

    So what are we willing to give up? Would we (or they) take Varejao and Sessions (or Booby) for something like Curry and Chandler (and they’d probably want Randolph too)? Would either team be willing to do Gallo for Gasol straight up? I always want to trade without giving up anyone, but it never works that way. It’s hard to decide who is expendable, and there is no need to panic, but it does seem interesting to move some of our wings for some quality help down low.

  7. G

    Actually, Gallo for Gasol is a pipe dream. Gallo and Randolph is maybe enough, but that’s a lot of potential to give up. And as has been said, they are probably not trading Gasol anyway.

  8. DS

    If I may vent, it’s really too bad that Anthony Randolph so far is nowhere near the breakout star that us very optimistic fans thought we might be getting. The player AR COULD someday be, seems like exactly what we need; size, shot-blocking, but the potential to dribble, shoot, and pass well enough to help the offense. I wish Turiaf could just teach AR to play exactly like him, since height and rebounding seem to come naturally to AR… I don’t know if AR just doesn’t get it or if coaches are spending a lot of time trying to make him the next Durant or Garnett.

    Hey! If the playoffs started today we’d be the # 5 seed and would get Atlanta in the first round.

  9. ess-dog

    Re: Hahn, do you think he can lay off the “nerd” comments anytime someone uses a number in their question?

    Been following, but he’s not saying anything we don’t already know.

    I just hope when it’s all said and done, we still have Fields on the roster.

  10. JK47

    I’ve been a pretty vocal “get Melo” advocate here, and I’ll be a little disappointed if he goes elsewhere, but perhaps Andre Iguodala wouldn’t be a bad consolation prize.

    Iggy plays 82 games every year. He has a career TS% of .558 and a career eFG% of .501, and you have to figure he could best those numbers easily playing in SSOL. Iggy is not the offensive force that Melo is, but he makes up for it with his stout defense on the wing. Iggy is a very fine perimeter defender, and he does all of this while committing very few fouls. He is a good passer and snags a decent number of rebounds for a guy who is really a SG.

    In terms of defensive four factors, I think with Iggy we’d see an improvement in eFG% allowed and FT/FGA, and we’d see our defensive rating improve without taking a hit to our offense. He’s a good two-way player and I think he’d fit in here nicely.

  11. DS

    @13 – Thanks Mike! Hahn answered my question on injuries. This KB thread got me thinking about whether we could get a little more productivity out of Azu, Douglas, and Turiaf before we go trading our best young chips. [P.S. In spite of the "nerd numbers" comments, I love that Hahn reads this blog and is critical in spite of being a Cablevision employee.]

    Said Hahn:
    “I don’t see Azubuike putting on a game uniform any time soon. He’s back to working on his own on the side and still isn’t running at what I would say to be game speed. The patella injury is an extremely difficult one to come back from. He didn’t just have a tear, he had a rupture. That’s serious business.
    Turiaf participated in full court scrimmages over the last two days so it appears he’s feeling fine. If there were any issues or pain, he wouldn’t have run full court.
    Douglas has been playing through the shoulder issue for a while now, which explains his shooting woes and some of his other troubles on the court (though not his decision making, of course). He is expected to play tonight, however. But if that shoulder gets worse, the Knicks will need to get a guard in here PDQ. Maybe that’s why Rautins hasn’t been sent to the D-League, in case Toney is in enough pain where he pulls the plug pregame. I really need to think more.”

  12. TDM

    KB: “Sorry, I just don’t see Andre Miller fitting in with this team. He’s a career 20.5% shooter from downtown, and has never cracked 30% in a season.”

    I used to be a huge fan of Miller – any team that traded for him started winning games. However, something that has come to light as of late is the fact that he doesn’t seem to be a good locker room guy. He’s created a rift with Roy in PTL (their franchise player), which doesn’t seem too smart. I don’t think I would want him in the Knicks’ locker room where it seems we finally have some sense of cohesiveness.

    Marc Gasol – love the guy, but it ain’t happening.

    One guy that I’ve mentioned before that I think would be great for the Knicks is DeAndre Jordan from the Clips. He’s coming off his contract year, so Sterling probably wont want to pay him and may let him walk. Donnie may be able to get him for a song.

    Iggy – I know he is a better passer than Ill Will or Gallo, but is he really worth $12.4 against the cap? And, would that mean less minutes for Fields?

    I really think the Knicks need to focus on depth at the 1 and the 5, not another SG or SF.

    Earl Barron hit the waiver wire. I’ve been pushing for him since last summer. I still think he may be worth a look to take limited minutes away from Amare/Turiaf at the 5. If not him, Courtney Sims from the D-League. Camby would be preferred, if Donnie can get him.

    As far as a pg to spell Felton, Antonio Daniels is rotting away in the D-League and would be a perfect complement to Felton. If Donnie wants to go younger, Acie Law is on the waiver wire and has played well in the past.

  13. Mike Kurylo Post author

    ess-dog: Re: Hahn, do you think he can lay off the “nerd” comments anytime someone uses a number in their question?Been following, but he’s not saying anything we don’t already know.I just hope when it’s all said and done, we still have Fields on the roster.  

    Hahn says that because he’s straddling both sides of the fence. He’s not an expert, but compared to the other beat writers, he’s Dean frickin Oliver. However he still has to work the other side of the aisle, and he still holds on to some of his pre-stat beliefs. From my perspective he’s not the “enemy”, especially when you consider the alternative.

  14. Ben R

    I heard someone mention Lopez but of Pheonix’s three centers he would probably be the hardest to pry away. What about either Gortat or Frye. I know both are wildly overpaid but because of that we might be able to get them for nothing but expirings and both would fill a need. Frye is a big who can shoot and Gortat is a big who can defend and rebound.

    Also if we are dealing with Pheonix what about Childress, he’s only playing 17 minutes a game and they seen to be in money saving mode so we might be able to get him for nothing as well and I would actually prefer him to AI.

  15. NYK Ewing

    Broussard on the podcast today said that we’re going to have to give up at least 3 of 4 of: Gallo, Fields, Chandler, 1st rounder for AR. For some reason he wasn’t mentioning Curry’s contract as a possible piece.

    It’s also funny how different types of people will flock to different blogs. Where Knickerblogger commenters seem to be more conservative (want Melo for cheap if at all), people at TheKnicksBlog seemed to want to not only go all out for him, but proposed all sorts of different additions to the trade to gut the team further.

    Here’s an interesting tidbit on the rumors page about Dwight:

    “People with knowledge of Howard’s thinking said the superstar is on board with Orlando’s moves, with one saying he’s ‘a big fan’ of the changes,” wrote Berger. “But as he grew restless over the summer about the developments in South Florida, and as the Magic were exposed in recent weeks, Howard privately already was beginning to weigh his options. Like the list of stars he wanted to join him in Orlando, he was forming another list: potential suitors for him. Two teams were on it, according to sources: the Knicks and Lakers.”

    I mean, there’s been so much speculation about all sorts of players already. Dwight’s my favorite non-Knick and I love his style. I don’t think we’ll have the space or the system to even consider it though.

    Dwight on the Lakers…. yikes.

  16. ess-dog

    yeah if you can get Childress vs. Iguodala, you might as well go for the cheaper glue guy. He’d be a nice back up swingman. He and Camby would get us places in the playoffs. Start Camby and bring Chandler off the bench with Childress, TD and Turiaf. Not bad.

  17. JK47

    Childress doesn’t pass or handle the rock anywhere near as well as Iggy, in my opinion does not defend quite as well and his usage rate is microscopic. We already have a better version of Childress in Landry Fields.

    There are only so many “glue guys” you can send out there. You need actual pieces to glue together more than you need the glue. Childress is cheaper than Iggy for a reason: Iggy is a more valuable player.

  18. Jafa

    NYK Ewing: Here’s an interesting tidbit on the rumors page about Dwight:“People with knowledge of Howard’s thinking said the superstar is on board with Orlando’s moves, with one saying he’s ‘a big fan’ of the changes,” wrote Berger. “But as he grew restless over the summer about the developments in South Florida, and as the Magic were exposed in recent weeks, Howard privately already was beginning to weigh his options. Like the list of stars he wanted to join him in Orlando, he was forming another list: potential suitors for him. Two teams were on it, according to sources: the Knicks and Lakers.”I mean, there’s been so much speculation about all sorts of players already. Dwight’s my favorite non-Knick and I love his style. I don’t think we’ll have the space or the system to even consider it though.Dwight on the Lakers…. yikes.  

    Wow, if this is true, I’m loving it. I don’t think we have a chance to get Howard, but the fact that we made his list? Next to the Lakers who are going for a 3-peat? Good to be a Knicks fan once again.

    From what I read, NJ is going all out for Melo, involving other teams for a multi-team blockbuster deal. Dallas is going all out for Melo as well, willing to take him on a rental without an extension signed to try and make a championship run.

    I have a feeling the number of suitors is only going to increase, which may help foster our focus on stealing good players from teams who seem to want to blow it up: Blazers, Bobcats & Cavs.

  19. Mike Kurylo Post author

    NYK Ewing: Broussard on the podcast today said that we’re going to have to give up at least 3 of 4 of: Gallo, Fields, Chandler, 1st rounder for AR. For some reason he wasn’t mentioning Curry’s contract as a possible piece.It’s also funny how different types of people will flock to different blogs. Where Knickerblogger commenters seem to be more conservative (want Melo for cheap if at all), people at TheKnicksBlog seemed to want to not only go all out for him, but proposed all sorts of different additions to the trade to gut the team further.

    Earlier this thread someone was giving Hahn a hard time about using the word nerd. Well Hahn is between those guys and us.

  20. Mike Kurylo Post author

    Re: Howard

    After seeing Orlando’s recent moves I thought they’ve made some bad decisions recently. Giving Duhon too long a contract (4 years?). Gilbert Arenas and Jason Richardson at this age? Re-acquire Turk? Gave away Gortat? These gave the impression of someone desperate. I understand trying to make your star happy, but you can’t let him be the GM. Remember when Kobe wanted to trade Bynum for Jason Kidd?

    The first thing that came to my mind is that if this is Howard acts when he’s unhappy, he’s going to be out of there if the team really takes a nose-dive. Then I wondered how good an Amar’e-Howard tandem would be.

  21. ess-dog

    JK47: Childress doesn’t pass or handle the rock anywhere near as well as Iggy, in my opinion does not defend quite as well and his usage rate is microscopic.We already have a better version of Childress in Landry Fields.There are only so many “glue guys” you can send out there.You need actual pieces to glue together more than you need the glue.Childress is cheaper than Iggy for a reason: Iggy is a more valuable player.  

    I don’t see us getting either since neither shoots the rock very well. But if you get Iggy, you are on the hook for 13 mil/yr over 5 years and he’s clearly not a difference maker in terms of getting past Boston or Miami.
    Then again, he could work nicely sandwiched between Felton and Gallo. You still don’t have a real center though. And what do you give up for him? Gallo? Fields?
    It might make the most sense to roll with who we have this year and get one or two more guys via free agency in 2011. We have talent right now but we are thin. If we can add two more quality guys to the group of Fields, Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Stat, Williams plus improve or release/trade AR, Turiaf, Mozgov, TD for other assets, we will be in a nice position.
    But knowing our luck, the lockout will screw everything up for us.

  22. iserp

    I think you can get Gasol… but you have to offer the max during the first week of free agency so the Grizzlies don’t match and try their luck with Z-Bo and Hasheem.

    So you have to ponder if it is better to have Melo at the max or Gasol. I am more uncertain about what kind of production Gasol would give us, but in the other hand, we have the SF well covered right now, and a C is more needed.

    About Varejao… i don’t think he is good enough offensively. I would be ok with him if we always had high volume shooters around him (even if at a not-so-good efficiency) because he rebounds so well. But with our high efficiency / lots of ball movement system, i wouldn’t care too much about offensive rebounding, and more about good passing. On the D end, i don’t see him big enough, … i mean, with Amare and Gasol you can choose to match big or small at the C position, but Varejao is about the same size than Amare (even if he hustles much more, but you don’t get an inherent size advantage)

    So… outside Gasol and Melo, i don’t see anything good for the knicks, just a waste of cap space. I am not comfortable with Igoudala; and Camby and Miller are too old for this team.

  23. Frank

    I would honestly go for one of these two options:

    1) Minor change – drop Roger Mason and pick up the Barron. He can push Mozgov to improve, rebound the ball, and shoot a midrange J. Then wait for Denver to panic and trade for Melo without giving up the house for him, or take our cap space into FA.

    2) Major change – forget Melo since scoring is not our real problem. Trade Chandler, Curry, and Azu for Varejao, Boobie, and Anthony Parker. Not sure whether Cleveland would make this trade, but that is a whole lot of $$$ they’d be saving. In one fell swoop we fix our problems at the 5, backup 1, and deliver more shooting for SSOL. They might ask for AR or a #1 also, but I wouldn’t do that.

    Truth is, we’re not winning a championship with this team –
    I think I’d rather go into the next 3-4 seasons with Felton, Fields, Gallo, Amare, Varejao with Boobie, TD, AR, Mozgov etc. than trade the moon for Melo.

  24. dubisaweapon

    I’m surprised there isn’t more discussion of bringing Gerald Wallace to NYC. While he’s not near Carmelo in terms of scoring, his efficiency from the floor combined with his hard-nosed defense and solid rebounding make him look like an interesting addition. I could go on, but all the arguments I’d make were already made here: http://tinyurl.com/32bg9bj

    Of course it really depends on what we’d have to send to Charlotte to get him, but if we can construct a deal that allows us to keep the pieces many of us seem reluctant to trade for Melo (Chandler, Gallo, Fields) adding Wallace starts looking pretty smart.

  25. ess-dog

    Wow, you gotta figure they go full rebuild now. Not sure I want what they’re sellin’ though. Maybe Wallace for the right price. Tyrus Thomas is putting up some great stats so far. It’s shocking how little value that team has. Wallace, Thomas and Augustin are good. The rest? Blech.

  26. rama

    Dub – Just because someone is a good player doesn’t mean we should go after them. I’m a fan of Wallace’s game, and mostly enthusiastic about Iggy. But as ess-dog points out, Iggy’s contract is pretty onersou, and I’m not sure he’d really be a significant addition to this team. And who knows what Charlotte wants for Wallace: if it’s Ill Wil, OK, but can’t imagine Jordan helping out the Knicks that way. Besides, as several have pointed out, we need a 5 and a 1. Fields is already a pretty good 2; Chandler and Gallo are pretty good 3s. We have STAT at the 4. But we don’t have interior D, and we don’t have any backup to Felton. For that reason I could actually see trading for Sideshow Bob: he could guard most of the league’s top 5s, and he’d be a big help on the boards. And his contract isn’t really THAT terrible. We’d still be able to go after a max in 2012 (depending on various other moves, of course). Frank’s “major change” trade actually makes sense to me.

    Of course, I’d most love to have Gasol, but as TDM says, it ain’t happening. No way Memphis makes the same mistake twice.

  27. rama

    Mike Kurylo: Re: HowardAfter seeing Orlando’s recent moves I thought they’ve made some bad decisions recently. Giving Duhon too long a contract (4 years?). Gilbert Arenas and Jason Richardson at this age? Re-acquire Turk? Gave away Gortat? These gave the impression of someone desperate.   (Quote)

    They DO seem desperate, but not all of those moves are bad. Vince is old; J-Rich is younger, and perhaps better. Gortat was really the only very good player they gave up, and he fills a need they don’t really have, since Dwight rarely misses games. So to get J-Rich, and to bring back a player in Turk who performed well for them (if no one else), seems almost worth it, since they are most definitely in Win Now mode. And I guess in that context, to trade one bad contract in Lewis for another in Arenas might make sense, given that again, they aren’t going under the cap anytime soon, and they might actually get something out of Arenas.

    Not great moves, but not entirely brain damaged, either.

  28. dubisaweapon

    rama: Dub – Just because someone is a good player doesn’t mean we should go after them.

    I know exactly what you mean, but I guess I apply that logic mostly to the never-ending Melo-drama. Carmelo’s a good player, and since he’s looking to get dealt the entire NY mainstream media seems to think the Knicks have to get him.

    Wallace is not only a good player, but he has a skill-set (defense, rebounding) that could be a better addition to the Knicks then the inefficient scoring of Carmelo — at a much lower price-tag no less. No, we don’t know what Jordan would want for him but I have to assume that Wallace can be got for a lot less then Anthony, especially since the Nets are being so aggressive in their pursuit of Melo. If we can put together a deal for Wallace that allows us to keep our young core of Chandler, Gallo, and Fields intact, I think it’s an option we have to consider.

    Of course this doesn’t address the problems at the 1 and the 5. Part of me wonders just how much of an issue D’Antoni thinks the 5 is, considering he’s generally preferred to go “small” anyways.
    My gut also says the 1 problem can be solved without much fanfare with a Telfair, Alston, etc. that can play a solid 10-15 min/game. In any case, it’s nice when our biggest problems as Knicks fans is discussing things as virtual GMs and not bemoaning the lack of good players on the current roster.

  29. David Crockett

    The thing I struggle with is how the Knicks make the small move that brings a serious upgrade, most likely to the backup point. I like this roster, and feel like it’s more in need of tweaking than overhaul.

    Telfair could be a decent addition, but he can’t shoot and really doesn’t defend. We’d be adding him solely because he can run the screen roll. He’s just a shorter version of Duhon. I wonder if we couldn’t do better in the D-League.

  30. Michael Cline

    TDM: KB: “Sorry, I just don’t see Andre Miller fitting in with this team. He’s a career 20.5% shooter from downtown, and has never cracked 30% in a season.”I used to be a huge fan of Miller – any team that traded for him started winning games.However, something that has come to light as of late is the fact that he doesn’t seem to be a good locker room guy.He’s created a rift with Roy in PTL (their franchise player), which doesn’t seem too smart.I don’t think I would want him in the Knicks’ locker room where it seems we finally have some sense of cohesiveness.

    I currently live in a small community outside of Salem, Oregon and listen to the local sports talk radio quite a bit, and from what I’ve heard, it’s actually quite the opposite: Roy’s knees are failing him already and is struggling to figure out how to play with reduced athleticism. Meanwhile, he’s lashing out at everyone in his interviews: the coach for not knowing how to draw up plays for him, Andre Miller for being too slow and indecisive, and the front office for not making any moves. Roy is losing the Portland faithful really quickly. They are starting to ask the question of whether or not Aldridge is a player you can build a contender around (probably not). They are stuck in mediocrity and I think would be willing to make just about any trade.

  31. massive

    I just think Roy needs to be moved to a situation where he doesn’t have to be the man (like Orlando pre-trade). I would like him here, but I’d be really cautious about investing $182 million in Roy and Stat.

  32. massive

    But, about this list. I don’t think because we’re not so likely to get Melo, doesn’t mean we should just invest a lot of money into good role players. There’s still Tyson Chandler and Nene in the off-season. Also, I don’t see Deron Williams and Chris Paul passing up an opportunity to play with:

    1) A 3rd year Landry Fields. If he keeps improving, the other aspects to his game, like becoming a better scorer/shooter on a higher usage, he’ll probably be as good as Manu Ginobili.

    2) A 5th year Gallo. Assuming we improves as well, he should be the 2nd scoring option we need in the future.

    3) Amar’e and Nene/Tyson Chandler. This could be one of the best (Top 3-5) NBA front courts by the time they’re free agents.

    I think we should slow down a bit with the trade talk, because a team of Felton/Iggy/Gallo/Amar’e/Varejao probably loses to the future prospects of Paul or Williams/Fields/Gallo/Amar’e/Chandler or Nene. I like the free agency prospects a lot more.

Comments are closed.