I think the Knicks have to at least take a look at Zoubek. He’s certainly an NBA caliber rebounder. I’ve only seen him play against guys 6 inches shorter than him, so I don’t know how he’ll transition to the NBA. I guess the most obvious knocks are that he’s foul prone and not a scorer. He’s big, though, which in and of itself should be enough to get the Knicks attention. Then again, would D’Antoni ever play him? Probably not.
It’s interesting because you could argue, on the one hand, that in a lesser program Zoubek would have been featured more or you could argue, on the other, that no one would have ever heard of him.

Jerome Jordan is another 7 footer who could be on the board. Jordan actually led his team in scoring, but Tulsa is not Duke. Jordan’s got a good game, but I guess there are attitude questions. Plus he’s almost 24. Plenty of guys have come into the league at 24, 25 or older and done well, though. I think he could be a Jerome James caliber guy.

Also, I hate to promote a Duke player, but what about Zoubek? He’s 7’1″ and has ranked as the 2nd best offensive rebounder behind Dejuan Blair since 2001.

God, I love the draft. Even without our 1st rounder…

It’s a negotiation, so there’s no exact formula. The player can bluff and say “I’m leaving with or without the sign-and-trade,” even if he doesn’t mean it. Thereby forcing the team’s hand: get something for him or let him walk. The team can call his bluff or not. They risk that he’s not bluffing if they do. At some point if the team pisses the player off he may be 100% set on leaving, and at some point a team doesn’t want a disgruntled star (Toronto has experience in this with Vince Carter).
The Cavs and Heat are unlikely to help LeBron and Wade leave town unless their hand is really forced. Toronto may or may not be more willing to help Bosh out: they want him, but assume he’s leaving. This offseason, though, there are so many teams with cap space that the players have an unusually high amount of leverage. They don’t need help to leave if that’s what they want to do. If they decide to leave at some point their old team realizes that getting Wilson Chandler at SF is better than losing LeBron straight up.

“(Perhaps in the past, teams usually said yes because the assets offered “were” superior to the alternative of nothing)”

You’re unlikely to take bloated contracts back, but luckily for the Knicks and other teams they’re already under the cap and don’t need to match salaries. They can offer young guys/picks and/or trade exceptions.
NY sent bad contracts back (and took them back) in both the Crawford and Curry s&ts, but they had to since they were capped out.
Seattle/OKC literally took nothing but a 2nd rounder and trade exception for Rashard Lewis in helping him out to get more $. Of course, they didn’t want him back.

“If we spiced it up, who could we add and how does that alter the prospect of the player even wanting to come here as opposed to staying where he is?
If we refuse to spice it up and the team says no, will the player want to come here enough to give up the extra salary or will he consider another city?”

Basically the Knicks have Danilo, Douglas, Chandler, Walker, 2nd rounders, and first rounders starting in 2014. Then s&ts of Lee, Harrington, etc. Sign-and-trades are inherently one sided, and I think that any team forced into a sign-and-trade or willing to do one would take those players. The Knicks roster would be even more barren without those players, but if you get LeBron it’s really not an issue to me. If you don’t get LeBron you’re in a bad spot, but I can still see justifying the T-Mac deal as taking a chance at LeBron even though you missed.
Obviously you don’t give up anything you don’t have to. If LeBron is willing to come straight up for the NYC/MSG/worldwide image thing–which is really the reason he’d come–don’t give up assets or pay him more than you have to. If he’s set on NYK, though, Cleveland would be wise to get a partial trade exception and asset(s) for him.

“Most of these major FAs are already on very good teams and seem to be happy with their current organization (except for maybe Bosh). They are also probably going to want to lock in as many years as possible at the max because the new CBA could impact their future salaries.”

Depends how things go this post-season. If Cleveland isn’t a Championship team this season, will they ever be? Certainly wouldn’t expect Shaq/Z/Jamison to get any better going forward. Anderson and Mo are pretty much at their peaks too, but could get a little better.
I would really not call Miami or Toronto very good. Toronto is the worst defensive team in the NBA and might miss the playoffs in the East. Miami, on the other hand, has tons of cap space and Wade is probably loyal to them.

I don’t think the Knicks have much chance at Wade, unless he and LeBron want to play together. Bosh the Knicks can get, but without LeBron or at least Johnson he’s not that attractive. So, to state the obvious, it really comes down to LeBron. The Knicks have a shot due to the global brand thing. Forbes just gave the Yankees $800 million in extra value for being the top team in NYC, or roughly the total value of the 2nd most valuable team. (The Yankee’s supposed value of $1.6 billion is about twice as much as the Red Sox, who are #2.) People can say whatever they want about shoe deals, but there is a very real value to playing in Manhattan. I’ve been hearing all this crap about Brooklyn, Manhattan… tomato, tomato… That’s BS (and I was born in Brooklyn and have never lived in Manhattan). Manhattan in NY. Unless you’re a hipster you don’t travel to NYC to see Brooklyn. Maybe LeBron and Jay-Z have some sort of plan for world domination, but choosing Brooklyn over Manhattan is a bad business decision.
That doesn’t mean LeBron will leave Ohio. There is a good business case for doing so, though, and LeBron fancies himself a killer businessman. If the Knicks have a 10% shot at LeBron, you can maybe justify the T-Mac deal. Especially if they go out and build at least an eastern conference playoff team if they miss on LeBron.

I understand your points and agree. I’m just not so sure you can look to the past to help determine what’s going to happen this time. It really is different this time because of the potential for the new CBA to impact salaries long term and the circumstances of the players.

You seem to be assuming that most/all FAs only consider playing for one other team besides their current one and most would be willing to take less than the max if a sign and trade can’t be worked out.

That may be true of unhappy players, but these guys are not unhappy (other than perhaps Bosh). One or more of them might be willing to say yes to any of 2-3 teams (Bosh again) as long as they can get a MAX CONTRACT in a sign and trade and the team is a contender.

The reason this is significant is that it’s also possible the current team could simply say “no” if a reasonable sign and trade can’t be worked out. That would force the player to either walk and take less money (something they don’t want to do in these marginal situations) or stay. It’s also possible that a team other than the Knicks could offer more and the player would say yes and go there instead.

The obvious question is why any incumbant team would say no to a sign and trade and risk getting nothing?

If the assets being offered are inferior to the cap space they’ll gain by allowing their star to leave, they would be better off saying “no”. (Perhaps in the past, teams usually said yes because the assets offered “were” superior to the alternative of nothing).

For example, would a team be bettor off with the cap space or Eddy Curry? LMAO

If we spiced it up, who could we add and how does that alter the prospect of the player even wanting to come here as opposed to staying where he is?

If we refuse to spice it up and the team says no, will the player want to come here enough to give up the extra salary or will he consider another city?

I concede that what I am describing may be a very low probability event, but IMO so is this situation.

Most of these major FAs are already on very good teams and seem to be happy with their current organization (except for maybe Bosh). They are also probably going to want to lock in as many years as possible at the max because the new CBA could impact their future salaries. So these are going to be marginal choices. Few of these guys are actually anxious to get out of town. That all gives the incumbent teams some extra leverage.

Specific to James, we’ve also never seen a player contemplating leaving his brand new mansion, home town, family, friends, etc… to see how that impacts his thinking and priorities.

Anyway, I don’t think it’s a foolhardy exercise to consider what the Knicks could actually offer in multiple sign and trades and what the team would look like after that. That goes double because we want to sign more than one FA. We could offer Lee for one, but what do we have after that that anyone would say yes to and even if they did say yes, would the player still want to come?

Anyway, it was a pleasant continuation to the discussion. Perhaps I am way overthinking it all, but I am very anxious to see what we can pull off and am very worried that we gutted the team so badly to get under the cap we no longer have the players and picks to pull off any sign and trades or attract any of these major free agents.

Looking forward to July 1. Best of luck to us all. We may need it. ;-)

Vasquez seems to be a hardworking guy with a knack for scoring and good court vision. He is a big pg – 6’5″ w/o shoes. Pulled out of last years draft. There are some concerns that he sometimes forces shots but that could have been because he was required to have such a high usage rate at Maryland.

I don’t see Whiteside falling to the 2nd with his size and athleticism… he’d almost have to get arrested or stink it up in workouts. Orton I could see falling since he didn’t actually play much at Kentucky, but that might not matter. Chad Ford thinks he’ll go 10-18… Alabi I don’t know. Teams do strange things on draft night, though, so one might very well fall.
One C who will probably be there is Zoubek… I’ve never actually seen him play against someone his own size, but I can’t imagine it’s pretty or he’d be projected to go a lot higher. If the Knicks played the Warriors every night be could be a HOF center, though.
Pittman might be there and be able to play 15 mpg or something… Not exactly a fit for D’Antoni though.

As far as PG, Sherron Collins is still on the board when the Knicks pick on nbadraft.net and draftexpress.com. Maybe not your prototypical starting PG, but at the end of the day he might be the 2nd or 3rd best PG in this draft class. Depending on who else is on the board I would have no problem taking Collins.
Should be a good, deep draft for shooting guards and combo-guards.