Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, October 21, 2014

Going out of business! 50% off! Priced to move! (All sales are final. Void where prohibited by law)

Following hard on the heels of Mike K’s fine breakdown of the benefits (or lack thereof) of trading for McGrady, I’m going to channel my inner Bill Simmons (I’ve been watching “Jersey Shore” on MTV and going to strip clubs all weekend to emotionally/psychically prep m’self. Needless to say, it’s been pretty harrowing.) and throw out some possible deals that could be made, even if our erstwhile coach is playing it coy:

“The key is it’s got to fit into the plan,” D’Antoni said before the Knicks’ 112-91 loss to the T’wolves last night. “It’s got to be right. I think we as an organization, we’re looking all the time, trying to better the team without messing up the long-term plan. It’s a tricky thing to do.

“We’ll keep looking. [Team president] Donnie [Walsh] will keep looking.”

You got that right, Coach. It is tricky. Is it as tricky as realizing that perhaps you should have played more than 6 guys in the 2nd half of a back-to-back, even if it means deviating from the sanctity of your precious 8-man rotation or going to the zone when Jefferson, Love and (shudder) Ryan Freaking Hollins are positively killing the Nix in the low post? Maybe not. But I digress…

Since it’s so durned difficult to make trades, in the spirit of teamwork (I’ve been taking my Teamocil these days), here are a few reasonable and hopefully fair deals to aid our (snicker, chortle) playoff push or upgrade for the future.

TRADE NUMERO UNO
New York trades: Jared Jeffries (SF/PF) and Cuttino Mobley (SG)
Sacramento trades: Kenny Thomas (SF/PF), Sergio Rodriguez (PG),  Hilton Armstrong (C)

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yk98edg

Why it’s plausible: Rodriguez is buried behind Tyreke Evans and Beno Udrih at PG. Jeffries has been a rumored target of Cowtown’s eye for awhile. They save some serious ducats (Mobley) in exchange for taking on JJ’s last year – hence a net savings – and dump 3 cats who are out of their rotation. The Nix get a young, up-tempo PG and of course, salary-cap savings.

TRADE KET SZAMA
New York trades: Jared Jeffries (SF/PF)
San Antonio trades: Matt Bonner (PF), Michael Finley (SG) Ian Manhinmi (PF/C)

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yfdmonf

Why it’s plausible: In the west playoffs, JJ’d be a valuable piece, guarding a variety of players – from Nowitzki to Brandon Roy to Chris Paul. The Nix would agree (nudge, nudge, wink wink) to release Bonner and Finley so that they could re-sign w/San Antonio. The ‘Bockers get a young big/project and (all together now), cap room in 2010.

TRADE ZAHL DREI
New York sends: Jordan Hill (PF), Cuttino Mobley (SG), Wilson Chandler (SF/PF)
Golden State trades: Anthony Randolph (PF), Anthony Morrow (SG), Speedy Claxton (PG) Devean George (SF), Raja Bell (SG)

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yztmymk

Why it’s plausible: For whatever reason, Nellie seems down on the Anthony’s (Morrow and Randolph). Chandler’s stock is at an all-time high. Hill can be sold to Golden State of Mind-ers as a reasonable substitute for Randolph and the Nix absolutely steal two pieces and actually save cap-bucks (a million or so).

And finally, just fo’ sh@*%s n’ giggles, a mega-deal (pigs flying not included)…

TRADE ANTALL FIRE
New York sends: Wilson Chandler (SF/PF), David Lee (PF/C), Nate Robinson (Freakshow), Jordan Hill (PF/C), Toney Douglas (PG)
Portland trades: Greg Oden (C), Jerryd Bayless (PG), Rudy Fernandez (SG), Travis Outlaw (SF/PF), Patrick Mills (PG)

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yk6tm2y

Why it’s utterly implausible but makes a weird, twisted kinda sense: Hear me out. While Portland would be admitting that they screwed the pooch by taking Oden over Durant, look at their 8-man roation post-trade –

PG Miller/Blake
SG Roy/Robinson
SF Chandler/Webster
PF Aldridge
C Lee

Lee and Aldridge in the high/low post would be great. Robinson returns to the Pacific Northwest and wouldn’t be a PG liability since Roy does a chunk of the ballhandling. Chandler’s a serious upgrade at SF over Batum/Webster. And they get two prospects in Hill and Toney D to boot.  That Blazers team could seriously challenge the Nugs and the Spurs (if not the Lakers) and given the number of picks/overseas assets the team still has, they’d still have the pieces to make a deal if it didn’t work out.

For the D’Antonis, we’d be a little light this year (to say the least), but moving forward, wouldn’t Oden be worth rolling the dice on? If he’s healthy he’s the defensive 5 we haven’t had since Ewing. Bayless is another boom-bust investment and Rudy F. could be Ginobili 2.0. That’s a TON of if’s, but what’s the ceiling of the guys we’re trading? Lee’s great, but not a franchise player or even a Robin to someone’s Batman like Vintage Pippen/Worthy/McHale or these days, Gasol/Pierce. Chandler’s getting better n’ better, but he’s a very poor man’s Shawn Marion. Hill could be a more athletic Kurt Thomas and Douglas might turn into Chris Childs. All nice pieces, for sure. But there isn’t a franchise guy in the bunch. Now take a look at the 2010 roster if these moves pan out:

PG Bayless
SG Fernandez
SF Gallo
PF That guy from Cleveland
C Oden

You bring Jeffries off the bench and fill the rest of the roster w/vet free agents who are jonesing to be part of LeBron’s entourage & Marcus Landry types. If you wanna get really ballsy, you see if Phoenix will dump Nash for expirings + picks. That’s a serious contender right now. It won’t happen, just b/c Portland can’t/won’t bail on Oden. But a girl can dream, right? Whaddaya think Knickerblogger-istas?

55 comments on “Going out of business! 50% off! Priced to move! (All sales are final. Void where prohibited by law)

  1. Mike Kurylo

    One of the problems with the roster as it’s currently constructed is the lack of good defenders. Going forward you can envision a front court of Lee/Gallo, but that’s not going to scare off any other team from exploring the paint. So for New York to become a title contender, they’d need some serious firepower to be one of those great on offense/average on defense teams (much like D’Antoni’s Suns were). Unlike signing Bosh (Toronto currently last in the league on defense), the Oden trade would solve that issue.

    The problem with that (other than Portland’s reluctance to move the big guy) becomes what does D’Antoni do with Oden? He’s not exactly a seven seconds or less kinda guy. The Knicks coach has shown that he can slow it down & that he’s not as indifferent to defense as thought (see: Nate Robinson’s benching). However two things that sticks out about D’Antoni’s teams is the ability to spread the floor and provide a multifaceted attack and the need for his players to make quick decisions. I haven’t seen him play much, but I don’t envision Oden doing either of these. If the Knicks made such a trade I think the first thing that New Yorkers would notice is how good Lee was at getting the ball up court after a defensive rebound…

  2. ess-dog

    I don’t see the Oden thing happening, but we do need a defensive big.
    Apparently, the Sixers and the Knicks are the most active in trade talks right now. What about something like this:

    NYK get: Dalembert, Iggy

    6ERS get: Curry, Lee, Chandler

    Why we do it: Dalembert can fix our interior D problems and Iggy would be a great 2nd fiddle for Lebron. We don’t gain cap space (in fact, we might lose a few mil) but we can move Jeffries in another trade. A line up of Douglas, Iggy, Gallo, Bron, and Dalembert would be killer.

    Why the 6ers do it: Well they don’t get off scott free, but they save 12 mil next year when Curry’s off the books. They would probably have to re-sign Lee first, but with Lee, Speights and Brand, that’s a super tough front court. And Chandler fills Iggy’s void. Maybe we have to throw in a draft pick as well.

    Meanwhile, I like the Jeffries trade to the Spurs.

    And the GS trade idea actually seems pretty fair, but I think GS is looking for a big name in return for Randolph (Stoudamire) and he’s really more of a tall wing, not a post player – not sure that’s really a pressing need for us, but I would love to see Morrow and Gallo in the same lineup.

  3. taggart4800

    Mentioned it sometime ago but this seems to be a better forum for the discussion.
    Jeffries and Nate for Morrison and Vujacic. Morrison can at least shoot the 3 ball but would undoubtably walk at the end of the year (5 mill off the cap). Whilst Vujacic is not horrendous and has been on a championship team for sometime, thus acquiring the knowledge of ‘what it takes’ in that sense he would hopefully bring some vet leadership off the court. This does however only save a mill of cap room.
    But jeffries for morrison works. and this saves us 6. I just don’t see the Lakers doing it. But it makes sense me. I for one do not want to see Morrison in a Knicks uniform instead of Jeffries but needs must and all that jazz. If i were amongst the Lakers front office i would certainly think this was a no brainer. Its not like they get points out of Morrison that they are giving up to acquire Jeffries but they are gaining the type of guy that can win you a title. He plays good D and at multiple positions. Get it Done Donnie!

  4. DS

    “Going forward you can envision a front court of Lee/Gallo, but that’s not going to scare off any other team from exploring the paint…”

    I think Emeka Okafor would fit the bill. He would be great to anchor our interior D. I know his numbers are down but he’s a very smart, decent guy so it seems like he will will bounce back a la Grant Hill rather than fizzle like some punk. And he can add a touch of offense. If salaries are to drastically change like some are predicting it might be crazy to pay a guy like that $10 mill per.

    I thought about the fact that the Knicks had Wilcox who was traded for Tyson Chandler who was traded for Okafor but I doubt the Knicks could
    have made the salaries work.

  5. Mike Kurylo

    “Whilst Vujacic is not horrendous and has been on a championship team for sometime, thus acquiring the knowledge of ‘what it takes’ in that sense he would hopefully bring some vet leadership off the court.”

    The Lakers would be short on a guy that would provide Kobe’s backside with constant moisture. Honestly when I watch Vuja & Kobe this song comes on in my head:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL4L4Uv5rf0

  6. taggart4800

    And again….:)

    Knicks aquire

    Etan Thomas
    Eric Maynor

    OKC aquire

    Jared Jeffries
    Nate Robinson

    Reasons i am sure you know yourself anyway. But at least Thomas could come back to NYC and they are looking to shift him. Not that anywhere other than the Knicks would want him. The only problem with Maynor is he looks like Chris Duhon II. Can sure run a team though and then we could try and aquire Larry Sanders in the draft and it would be a VCU reunion. They did hook up well…..:)

  7. taggart4800

    @4
    Yeah the more i thought about it i wouldn’t which is why i realised it made no sense. It was more because i just didn’t see the Lakers taking just Jeffries for Morrison although it is sensible for basketball reasons, if not for cap reasons.

  8. TDM

    I like the Sacto trade, but I’d be willing to bet that the Kings could get a better offer than Jeffries and Mobley. I know next to nothing about Ian Manhinmi, and the other 2 trades seem highly unlikely. Not to mention, it would be a cold day in hell before I would trade Lee, Chandler, Hill and TD for Oden. I don’t think he can stay healthy. As of the end of this season, Oden will have missed 164 games in his first 3 seasons – or to put it another way, two full seasons.

    I think a smaller deal with less high profile players to a contender is the most likely trade we’ll see happen. Something like Jeffries to Memphis for Marcus Williams, Steven Hunter and maybe one of their late-first rounders.

  9. Jeff

    The best trade I came up with:

    Hill and Jeffries for Josh Howard’s Corpse

    Cuban’s probably one of the few owners that is going to be willing to take on contracts. Gotta think Dallas’s window is starting to close.

  10. Robert Silverman Post author

    Just to be clear, the Oden deal is pure fantasy. Walsh isn’t going to risk trading for him before he knows if he can come back from his latest injury and the Blazers won’t deal when his value is at an all-time low.

    But to respond to Mike – I think MD’A would be able to figure out a way to work with a traditional, low-post center. I’m forgetting where I read this (nor am I able to find it online), but he (D’Antoni) mentioned that when he was coaching Benetton Treviso in the 90’s he had two back-to-the-basket 7-footers as starters on a team that won the Italian League Title. It wouldn’t be 7SOL, sure. But he’d figure it out.

  11. DS

    “… it would be a cold day in hell before I would trade Lee, Chandler, Hill and TD for Oden”

    Wha????? Oden was AWESOME this year and he just turned 22 a week ago. He’s had two separate injuries not one recurring back injury or something. He’s not already damaged goods!!

    Portland would be insane, not NY, to make that trade. They don’t need to cut their losses on a 22 year old with insane productivity. They are currently two games out of 3rd in the West and landing Lee (who I love) would not exactly send them zipping past LA and Denver.

  12. TDM

    07-08: Microfracture surgery on his right knee – missed entire season
    08-09: Chip to his left kneecap – battled injuries all season, missed 21 games
    09-10: Fractured patella on left knee – will miss 61 games

    I see a theme developing.

    Knee injuries have a tendency of recurring, especially with a guy as big as Oden. He has Sam Bowie written all over him.

  13. TDM

    But, even assuming he was healthy, as RS pointed out, it is pure fantasy that the deal would go thru for a variety of reasons.

  14. Jafa

    Interesting Robert. All your trades involve teams in the western conference. Coincidence or is there an underlying reason?

    Don’t like any trades that don’t involve getting rid of JJ. Trade #1 looks really good and makes too much sense for both teams that I have to think there is something stopping this from happening (like Sactown wanting Nate in return, as has been blogged about here in the past). Trade #2 could happen if the Spurs doesn’t start winning early in its upcoming road trip (but I don’t know if their problem is defense though).

    The biggest disappointment would be if we don’t get anybody to bite on JJ before the deadline. If we move him and we lose the playoffs this year (which I think we are well on our way to doing), the summer of 2010 should be a good consolation prize. Otherwise, if we don’t get a top FA in 2010, we will all be speculating as to whether JJ’s contract was the hindrance.

  15. jaddddd1

    Seems like most of the trades people are suggesting are either A. extremely one-sided in favor of the Knicks or B. don’t accomplish the Knicks’ stated goal of getting better while clearing 2010 space. I propose Nate and Jared Jeffries for Ray Allen. Thats a trade that helps both teams, Boston gets both its 3rd guard and its perimeter defender, and the Knicks get Ray Allen, a pure shooter who can help this year and come off the books when its over.

  16. ess-dog

    lmao jads,
    how is your trade not one-sided? they give a former all-star to rent nate for half a season and then get stuck w/ Jeffries?

  17. Thomas B.

    Knicks get: Gilbert Arenas, two future first rounders
    Wizards get: Curry, Hill, and Jeffries

    Pro: Does not hurt 2010 salary cap (saves about 3 million). Adds a point that can score. Adds a star level player in place of JJ and Curry, who you have to pay in 2010 anyway. NRA becomes sponsor of Knicks. Player can litteraly shoot the lights out.

    Con: Not sure if this scares off potential FAs. Arenas is a high usage player not sure how he might play with a Wade or LBJ. Removes cap space for 2011-2014. Areanas’ knee.

    That deal makes your 2010 salaried players total 40.736 million and that includes Lee and Robinson’s held salary. Drop Robinson’s rights and the number goes to 34.736 million. Giving the Knicks 15.3 million in cap room if the cap is 50 million, 19.5 if the cap is 54 million and 23 million if the cap stays the same.

    The team could keep Lee, sign James and still add a star level player in Areans. I’m in the minority but I’d prefer getting Arenas and keeping Lee to dumping Lee and getting Bosh. Areanas’ contract would be at least 3 years shorter than Bosh’s (4 if sign and trade).

    Okay, tell me how crazy I am. Go on, I dare you.

  18. Jafa

    Washington gives up 2 future firsts and a star with a bad rep right now for spare parts. Maybe if Isiah Thomas was running that team…

  19. jaddddd1

    ess-dog,

    The Celtics wouldn’t be renting Nate because he would re-up there, he’s said it’s one of the few placed he’d accept a trade to (because he is a BYC player with Bird rights he has a limited no-trade clause), and a team like Boston is not STUCK with Jeffries because he adds value to that team. Boston is all about TEAM DEFENSE and JJ certainly fits in. And they are not going to have 2010 cap space so it doesnt matter to them that he’s under contract next year. And the key with Ray Allen is FORMER All-Star. He’s seriously underperforming this year. I don’t know his advanced stat numbers but hes shooting 8% worse than his career average from 3 this year, and that’s where most of his value comes from. His numbers are way down across the board.

  20. Thomas B.

    Gilbert can’t stay with the Wizards, that much is clear. Young player and cap room for a guy and contract nobody else wants? Could they really do much better? Wizards hate draft picks anyway-drafts never work out for the Wiz. Who was the last good Wizards lottery pick? I dont know either.

    Looking at the way the Wizards are run, I thought Isiah Thomas was GM.

  21. Jeff

    That’s the worst trade proposal I’ve ever seen.

    The Wizards are not going to give up two potential lottery picks for a couple of turds. They’re sure as hell not going to take Jared Jeffries AND Eddy Curry. Nobody will. That’s insane.

    The Knicks haven’t cleared all this cap space so they could spend it on a headcase with knee problems and a massive contract.

  22. Thomas B.

    Jeff,

    I know you’ve been busy splitting the atom and brushing up on your eloquent delivery, but while you were away the NBA starting this thing call conditional draft picks. I think taking JJ and Curry is better than buying out Gilbert for half what he is owed. If JJ and Curry had three years left on the contract each, then yes. But those contracts come off next year and in this economy expiring deals have value. Wiz could use either of those to do plenty of other things. The wiz take a bitter pill for one year to get rid of Arenas. That does not seem so implausible. What is the better option for the Wiz? Clearly you are brighter than I, so present a better deal for moving Arenas. Teach, instruct, impart.

    You might have also noticed that the 2010 cap hit is actually a plus for the Knicks. Since 2010 is all people seem to care about anyway. Tell you what, 1 conditional lottery protected pick to help even out including Hill. Everyone in the NBA has knee problems. Every contract is just one microfracture surgery away from being the worst deal ever. The only difference here is that the contract would be half as long. Sheesh.

  23. Frank

    Actually I think Nate + Jefferies for Ray Allen is good for both teams. Boston’s window is closing VERY quickly and I think Nate and JJ would be valuable rotation players for them. Nate would be a much needed backup PG and 6th man, and Jefferies would make their team defense even that much better. Rondo, Pierce, Jefferies, Garnett, and Perkins is a GREAT defensive lineup, not to mention Rasheed.

    The Wizards trade is ridiculous, if only because Curry is involved. If there’s anyone more untouchable in this league than a gun-toting, ball-hogging idiot, it’s a lazy fat malcontent who’s agitating for the team that has been paying him $10MM/year to “do the right thing”.

  24. david

    Rosewood asked

    “Why would you rather have Vajacic than Jeffries next year?”

    There are $1.6 M reasons — the difference in salary towards the cap next year. Obviously, we would prefer Fisher to Sasha V, with a promise we’ll cut him so he can go back to the Lakers. But even without it, we’d save some 2010 salary space with a Nate-Jeffries for Sasha/Morrison trade (and Nate might do it, as they might resign him and he’d get to play for a championship.)

    It’s all upside for the lakers — they get a spot defender and a scorer off the bench at a position (pg) where they have sucked all season. Sasha hasn’t been shooting well — nate is better from three than he is, at last check — and Jeffries could prove useful. If they don’t make another move, I can see this one shoring them up a bit. On the other hand, if they want to rest Kobe for a stretch (which, imo, they should do), they might not want to deal their only backup sg..

  25. ess-dog

    I think Thomas B’s trade makes more sense than the Ray Allen trade. Look, Allen is an expiring before 2010. A lot of teams want that expiring cabbage. I think they can do better than a 5’7″ guy that shows up every 6th game and a toothpick that yes, plays some good defense but practically makes as much as Lee. I mean, is Nate going to start for the Celtics? Daniels? Jeffries and Hill to Portland for expirings and a 1st makes more sense. If anyone is going to trade an expiring for Jeffries, it will be a garbage player like Kenny Thomas that could never help in a title run.
    Would I do the Arenas trade? I would probably wait until the end of the season to try that one.

  26. Thomas B.

    @ 19 Mike K,

    Yes but what were the advanced stats over that period stat boy?
    :-) I think Gils numbers were better.

  27. TDM

    “I know you’ve been busy splitting the atom and brushing up on your eloquent delivery, but while you were away the NBA starting this thing call conditional draft picks.”

    Thomas B. at his best. Many thanks for the laugh.

  28. rrude

    Wiz have no reason to move Gil this season. They are out of the playoffs so they don’t need players this year. His valuei s at an all-time low. They’d be much smarter to let him show he can still play at the beginning of next year–assuming he’s motivated to be in top shape–and trade him then. Right now no one’s even sure he can still play at a high level. But a buy-out would spare anyone in the league from having to overpay him.

  29. Mike Kurylo

    “Wiz have no reason to move Gil this season. They are out of the playoffs so they don’t need players this year. His valuei s at an all-time low. They’d be much smarter to let him show he can still play at the beginning of next year–assuming he’s motivated to be in top shape–and trade him then. ”

    Swap Wiz for Knicks and Gil for Curry. Set date to pre-2010.

    OK I know Arenas is far ahead of Eddy in terms of past production, but sometimes you jettison someone who is going to eat your cap asap. The NBA is unforgiving in that manner.

  30. Z

    “I think Nate + Jefferies for Ray Allen is good for both teams.”

    This doesn’t even come close to working salary wise.

    “Why would you rather have Vajacic than Jeffries next year?: There are $1.6 M reasons — the difference in salary towards the cap next year.”

    For $1.6 million I’d much rather have what Jeffries does than what Vajacic does.

    Seems like we can trade Nate and Jeffries for Morrison only if Walsh and Kupchak are creative with exceptions and retired players (a la Aaron McKie, Keith Van Horn, etc…).

  31. Robert Silverman Post author

    The Jared + Nate for Kenny Thomas’ expiring was rumored to be out there at last year’s deadline. No one’s sure who blinked first or if it was true. I would have written it up again, but considering how much better JJ is playing (never thought I’d write that in my lifetime), I torqued the package to include S – Rod.

    Arenas is like Oden. No one’s doing anything until the Wiz find out if they can void his deal. If so some combo of Butler, Haywood, and Jamison will probably go for pennies on the dollar. The Wiz (I know it’s utterly IMPOSSIBLE after the Tarantino scene that Gil and Crit staged in the locker room, but can this team please go back calling themselves, “The Bullets.” Their unis suck. The blue, black and gold combo sux. Considering their history – the no name flowing stripe early 70’s combo:

    http://www.lib.umd.edu/RARE/IMG/BNA/unseld.gif

    the star-spangled championship years:

    http://frmarkdwhite.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/unseld_hayes1.jpg

    It’s criminal (pun intended) what they wear these days.)…where was I? Oh yeah, the Wiz could possible have 30-40 million in cap room next summer and become a player in the FA market. So no, Agent Zero’s as likely to move as Oden is.

    As far as some kind of Morrison + Vujajic/Farmar for Nate/JJ combo, I have a feeling Phil Jackson wouldn’t be giving Robinson books to read, he’d just pick up a copy of DF Wallace’s “Infinite Jest” (a robust 1300 pages) to whack Nate over the head with. Thank you, thank you, I’m here all weak. Seriously folks, if MD’A can’t put up w/Nate’s hijinks, how long do you think Jax would be able to stand trying to watch Lil’ Him navigate the intricacies of the Triangle O?

  32. Ted Nelson

    The Lakers are in a much different situation than the Knicks. Nate’s role would be different and their locker room dynamic is different. I don’t know that there’s any chance he ends up there, but I think he’d be a good fit, actually. Their offense is only 10th in the NBA and PG/3rd guard are easily their worst offensive positions (SF not that far behind, besides for if Kobe slides over there).
    ———————-

    Will definitely be interesting to see what happens between now and the deadline.

    It’s always so hard to say what is a ridiculous trade since organizations have different priorities and values for players. I think Robert was wise to elaborate on his potential trades under the headline “Why it’s plausible:”… plausible is a good word.

    The Jeffries/Nate combo may have been out there last season, but the Kings are also in a better spot this season than last: their future looks pretty bright. Plus, Nate was rumored to be the one they were interested in more than JJ.

    As unlikely as it is, I can see the logic behind your Oden scenario. Portland taking a risk averse stand and improving short-term and the Knicks betting big on a high-risk/high-reward guy.
    Along with Portland not trading Oden, I think it’s implausible because of all the other young talent Portland would be surrendering. Even if Oden is always on and off the injured list the Knicks might still win that deal on talent: half a season of a 25-30 yr old Oden might be huge, plus a promising young backcourt of Bayless/Fernandez, plus a solid (expiring) wing in Outlaw.
    Lastly, Portland is also already a very strong offensive team that could use a defensive upgrade. Resigning Aldridge will turn out to be a big mistake for them (unless they can move him).

    I don’t think the GSW trade is such a clear steal for the Knicks. Morrow does absolutely nothing besides score (low TO, too, and very efficient medium-volume scorer). He was an amazing find as an undrafted FA, but his value is limited. Randolph’s potential is through the ceiling and his production is already good, but I have to seriously question whether he will ever get it together mentally. I guess that’s the risk you’d be taking and if the Warriors were willing to exchange their two young guys for two other young guys then maybe it’s worth rolling the dice. Randolph could be a great fit at the 4 for D’Antoni and a great complement to a top flight scorer.

    It may be plausible, but I am not interested in Gilbert Arenas. Attitude issues aside, he is not the guy I want the Knicks to be paying $22 mm in 2013/14. Would be a ballsy move, though.

    If Nate, Jeffries, and maybe Al Harrington is the best offer the Celtics get for Ray Allen and they would rather do it then keep him, sure I move two guys who don’t figure in past this season to shed Jeffries’ salary. The playoffs were a nice dream, but to me cap space is a much bigger goal than winning this season. Not just cap space for 2010 (although that’s a huge opportunity), but to be used wisely at any point down the road.
    The Celtics would be wise to explore moving Allen, since it might be one of their best opportunities to improve their team going forward for a couple of years. They also shouldn’t just throw him away. Pierce and House are the only other guys who can hit a three consistently on that team. Replacing Allen with a no-offense SF would hurt Rondo’s offense and he’d also have to guard SGs when playing with Nate. Maybe Ainge sees swapping one rotation player for 3 as a good move, though. They might also get offered packages including Igoudala, Rip Hamilton, Hinrich, Monta Ellis, Redd…

  33. rrude

    “Swap Wiz for Knicks and Gil for Curry. Set date to pre-2010.

    OK I know Arenas is far ahead of Eddy in terms of past production, but sometimes you jettison someone who is going to eat your cap asap. The NBA is unforgiving in that manner.”

    Of course, by extension this means the Wiz are stuck with Gil unless they buy him out because no one in their right minds would trade for him (Curry). Can’t see anyne taking him, nor them giving him up for pennies on the dollar.

  34. DS

    Arenas is still a good player. I know his contract runs until he’s 32 and he’s prone to injury and mental breakdown but imagine what it would mean for a team like Denver, Atlanta, Memphis, Houston, Cleveland, Portland, Utah or the Knicks to add him to their roster. He could make an enormous difference.

    If I was Wizards management, I would keep try to emulate what the Pacers were able to do in dealing Artest for Peja; They had to take 75 cents on the dollar, but they let it be known that they were going to be as patient as they needed to be to get a good deal and to get some other teams to try to bid against each other. They didn’t just unload Artest for cap space like some here are suggesting the Wiz do by trading him for Curry.

  35. ess-dog

    Well, it’s not just unloading Arenas, there would be young player(s) coming from the Knicks. At least Hill, maybe someone else too. Cheap young players are something they would want. Memphis could offer Conley, and their rooks. Cleveland has Hickson. Portland could give back Miller’s deal and they have some good young pieces but I doubt they would want him. Maybe LA would do a Baron for Arenas trade? I think Kahn, in his attempt to create an all-point guard team, will probably trade for Arenas though.

  36. taggart4800

    There is talk of the discontent in Boston’s lockeroom and the apparent shopping of Ray Ray. Based on that i propose this.

    Scalabrine would probably be cut and resigned if possible as he is somewhat of a cult figure. Maybe the same for Giddens.

    But the celtics get two guys that are actually good fits to their system. Hughes is not completely useless on offense and then they also get Nates scoring abilities.

    Not going to happen, i know, but this is how i think it would work best.

    Knicks get
    Allen
    Scalabrine
    Giddens

    Celtics get
    Jeffries
    Hughes
    Robinson

  37. ess-dog

    Does this trade work $ wise? It was posted on Hahn’s page and it seems to make sense. Not sure if the Lakers are ready to part with Farmar though:

    LAL get Jeffries&Hinrich
    NYK get Farmar&Morrison
    CHI get Vujacic&MBenga

  38. Robert Silverman Post author

    Taggart – I think you’d have to substitute (a healthy) Harrington for Hughes for C’s to even consider it.

    Then again, If the Sixers built a package around Iguodala or the Wizards put Caron Butler on the table, doesn’t that top anything we could offer for Jesus Shuttlesworth?

  39. eric8476

    the knicks need a 5, i think the match up problem of lee at the 5 is against the knicks. lee is a 4 and would be better served as a 4 in this offense and it would help the offense with lee at the four.

  40. Robert Silverman Post author

    Eric, I’m going to be lazy and not pull up the #’s, But Lee is far more effective offensively as a 5 than as a 4 and just as poor v. PF’s & C’s on defense

  41. eric8476

    the numbers are good but for the flow of the game lee at the 5 puts the knicks at a disadvantage

  42. Robert Silverman Post author

    Eric – no, Lee isn’t a shotblocker. But his rebounding at center is poor? 11.4/game is poor for a center??? He’s fifth in the league. And you’ll have to explain to me what “flow” means. He’s not a ballhog, he doesn’t force shots and he’s the leading assist man at center in the NBA.

  43. Caleb

    Harrington, Nate & Jeffries for Ray Allen…

    But seriously guys, we’re in the buzz-fade phase where you realize the rest of the league thinks Jeffries sucks even more than we think. I’d have to say a salary-dumping trade is a longshot. Like, from beyond half-court.

    That means LeBron will have to take a pay cut or agree to play without David Lee, if he wants to be in NY.

  44. Brian Cronin

    But seriously guys, we’re in the buzz-fade phase where you realize the rest of the league thinks Jeffries sucks even more than we think.

    I disagree. I think he has his fans out there. Contenders love players like Jeffries. They just don’t like him at the money he’s making. Don’t get me wrong, the effect is the same (that the Knicks are basically screwed) – I just think it’s worth noting that Jeffries does have his fans out there. He won’t be longing for work in two years.

  45. rrude

    I feel like everyone’s overlooking the point that, overpaid JJ may be, but his contract next year is an expiring, the sort of thing people get all hot & bothered about these days.

    So you trade for him (if you’re a contender…throw all other scenarios out) and you get a decent role player for the end of season/playoffs and if you don’t want to pay him his high salary next year he magically becomes just another expiring to use in a trade (and a decent contributor to boot).

  46. Ted Nelson

    DS,

    “Arenas is still a good player.”

    In 32 games this season he was not nearly as good as in his mid-20s. His TS% was only .511. Maybe that’s a fluke or the rust from 2 seasons off, but how many contenders are going to risk $22 mm in 2013/14 to find out? (Even in his prime you can question if he was worth that much.) A lot of the teams you list would have a hard time matching salaries without giving up a core player or two.
    I don’t know how much of a market for Arenas there will be. Maybe after 2010 free agency ends and the dust settles, but right now I just don’t see that many teams who would take such a big risk on that contract… at least not give up much to do so. Something like Elton Brand or Curry/Jeffries… sure.

    “They had to take 75 cents on the dollar”

    I thought Peja and Artest were pretty evenly matched at the time. Both were a lot stronger on one side of the ball then the other, but were very good on that side and passable on their weak side. Artest had the whole crazy thing and Peja was a FA who left the Pacers with nothing, so also somewhat even on that count too.

    “They didn’t just unload Artest for cap space like some here are suggesting the Wiz do by trading him for Curry.”

    Effectively they did unload him for cap space. Peja walked at the end of the season and they made no real attempt to keep him (which was probably the right move at the price NO paid). And what’s wrong with cap space?

  47. Ted Nelson

    Also, Artest made $7 mill a season. That’s a lot easier to trade than Arenas’ ginormous contract.

    ess-dog,

    Check Real GM trade machine, but I doubt that trade works. Lakers are taking on like 17 mill per and Knicks and Chicago like 7.

    rrude,

    But that contender would be giving away a more immediate expiring contract. And most teams are looking for 2010 cap space. And the teams who aren’t have a lot of leverage to trade their expiring contracts for players who are a lot better than Jeffries.

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