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Saturday, July 26, 2014

Game Thread: Raptors @ Knicks

As y’all probably know by now, Amar’e Stoudamire’s out again tonight with a balky (which is not entirely dissimilar to, “Balkman-y”) ankle. Considering the rigors of this shortened season, being overly conservative is probably the wisest course of action with regards to our fragile and ferocious Forward.

But fear not, ‘Bocker faithful! Jorts Harrellson is here!

In all seriousness, the Knicks’ floor-spacing, offensive flow, and general weltanschauung improved with STAT in skivvies. Will this trend continue or was the Kings’ overall ineptness the dominant factor leading to the New Yorkers’ impressive offensive output?

We shall see, true believers. We shall see…

180 comments on “Game Thread: Raptors @ Knicks

  1. Thomas B.

    Nice preview. May I just add that Toronto enters the game 27th in defensive efficiency rating (109.6) but 12th in offensive efficiency (105.1). New York ranks 14th on offense (104.7) and 22nd on defense (106.6). New York needs to keep pressure on Jose Calderon, who leads Toronto in PER (24.9), and is 2nd in TS% (67%). The efficient Andrea Bargnani will also be a handful for the New york frontcourt. Will Josh Harrellson repeat his New Year’s Eve coming out party (14 pts on 4-8 3pfg with 12 boards)? The Bargnani v. Harrellson match up will be interesting as they are big men with similar games.

  2. Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta) Post author

    Thomas B.:
    Nice preview.May I just add that Toronto enters the game 27th in defensive efficiency rating (109.6) but 12th in offensive efficiency (105.1).New York ranks 14th on offense (104.7) and 22nd on defense (106.6). New York needs to keep pressure on Jose Calderon, who leads Toronto in PER (24.9), and is 2nd in TS% (67%).The efficient Andrea Bargnani will also be a handful for the New york frontcourt.Will Josh Harrellson repeat his New Year’s Eve coming out party (14 pts on 4-8 3pfg with 12 boards)?The Bargnani v. Harrellson match up will be interesting as they are big men with similar games.

    Thanks Thomas – if you want to add the stats to the piece, go right ahead.

  3. ess-dog

    Whaddup Knick homies??

    Our defensive rank surprises me. We need to work on that.

    Shit, Landry!

  4. ess-dog

    Fortunately, this team also blows.

    Although we usually make Bargs look like Larry Legend out there.

  5. art vandelay

    Yes, last season Bargnani was easily captain of the knicks opponents’ all-middling team…hansbrough being second in command.

  6. Michael Cline

    Announcers talking about how much of a “ball stopper” Melo is. It’s true, he favors the iso, but he’s second on the team in assists/game so far this young season.

    He’s also tied for the best rebound mark per game.

    But yeah, he’s only an iso scorer.

    Come on, Melo is expanding his game. I don’t know what he has to do to prove it to people. AND ON TOP OF IT ALL, he’s our only consistent scorer.

  7. BigBlueAL

    Dont be surprised if Melo stops passing the ball after Fields and Jorts have each missed 2 wide-ass open 3pters off Melo passes lol

  8. Michael Cline

    Whew, Harrelson’s three balls are not looking so great tonight. But he’s drawn two charges Knicks’ subpar superstar (Bargani).

    Time to get back to doing the dirty work Josh and stop hoisting up those threes!

  9. Michael Cline

    BigBlueAL:
    Dont be surprised if Melo stops passing the ball after Fields and Jorts have each missed 2 wide-ass open 3pters off Melo passes lol

    I wouldn’t blame him one bit. He looks on, and they look terrible.

  10. Michael Cline

    I think the biggest victory of this quarter might be getting Chandler staying on the floor. I don’t have stats to back this up, but it seems like the games we lost, he was in foul trouble the whole game.

  11. ess-dog

    I love how Novak, leading the break, doesn’t head to the hoop but curves back to the 3 pt line!

  12. Thomas B.

    Spree8nyk8:
    They read firsties!

    Like KB on facebook or follow on Twitter to get instant updates. That way you can be the first one to see the latest from KB. What you say as the first commenter is up to you.

  13. jon abbey

    Michael Cline:
    I think the biggest victory of this quarter might be getting Chandler staying on the floor. I don’t have stats to back this up, but it seems like the games we lost, he was in foul trouble the whole game.

    yeah, I think that’s why D’Antoni didn’t start him on Bargnani.

  14. Thomas B.

    Is the team that thin that we need Harrellson, Novak, Bibby and Walker on the floor together?! Seriously, WTH?

  15. art vandelay

    Unfortunately, I think we are just seeing that without STAT, shump, b diddy and even jeffries, this team may just stink. We are pretty decimated.

  16. BigBlueAL

    Im curious to see if after this game Berman and Isola will still write about the Knicks offense being better w/o Amar’e.

  17. Michael Cline

    Melo the only one looking ready for this game. I agree, he may need 45 tonight for us to have a chance.

    Fields has regressed back to his first-3-game-self.

    You don’t need a streaming link if you grab league passes free preview. It lasts for a few more days I believe.

  18. ess-dog

    Shit, Bill’s doing his best to preserve Landry’s starting spot.

    Hey does anyone know what Azubuike’s up to? He must’ve healed by now.

  19. Shad0wF0x

    Watching Wizards vs. Celtics on the tele. Quite enjoying watching Washington lead the game.

  20. Michael Cline

    ess-dog:
    Shit, Bill’s doing his best to preserve Landry’s starting spot.

    Hey does anyone know what Azubuike’s up to?He must’ve healed by now.

    Seriously. Is he still getting paid?

  21. art vandelay

    ….and I thought the second half of the golden state game couldn’t be surpassed as worst half of basketball of the season! They have already done it!

  22. ess-dog

    BigBlueAL:
    Im seriously contemplating not watching the 2nd half of this pathetic crap.

    Seriously, there are so many other ways to fill an hour….

  23. latke

    Mike Bibby is terrible. He should never ever play. He is awful on defense, can’t shoot, and is too slow to do anything but spot up (and miss) on offense.

    THe knicks were playing right the first 12 minutes. Toronto chose to pack the paint and try to stop Melo. The appropriate response to that is to pass out the the perimeter and take those threes. Sometimes you’re going to miss, but the “let Melo drive against the entire Raptor team” strategy is just never going to pay off. If you continue to miss threes, then you at least lose while playing winning basketball.

  24. Frank O.

    latke:
    Mike Bibby is terrible. He should never ever play. He is awful on defense, can’t shoot, and is too slow to do anything but spot up (and miss) on offense.

    THe knicks were playing right the first 12 minutes. Toronto chose to pack the paint and try to stop Melo. The appropriate response to that is to pass out the the perimeter and take those threes. Sometimes you’re going to miss, but the “let Melo drive against the entire Raptor team” strategy is just never going to pay off. If you continue to miss threes, then you at least lose while playing winning basketball.

    Yeah, the Melo isos kind of got people standing around

  25. hoolahoop

    There’s a better chance that Miami goes undefeated this season than the knicks get past the first round of the playoffs.

    This organization is a disgrace.

    I guess they’ll have to get another superstar, raise ticket prices again, and blockout more games from the fans.

  26. Spree8nyk8

    Frank O.: Yeah, the Melo isos kind of got people standing around

    I know that nobody ever misses a chance to jab at Melo….But lets be real here. They are standing around regardless of who has the ball.

  27. ess-dog

    Spree8nyk8:
    I’ve been an MDA supporter since he got here, but my faith is seriously waning.

    I think if Mike had his way, Stat would still be our center, Gallo would still be our sf and we’d have a real passing pg right now.
    This team is built for a coach with a triangle.

  28. Thomas B.

    ess-dog: I think if Mike had his way, Stat would still be our center, Gallo would still be our sf and we’d have a real passing pg right now.
    This team is built for a coach with a triangle.

    Then let’s get one.

  29. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Spree8nyk8: I know that nobody ever misses a chance to jab at Melo….But lets be real here. They are standing around regardless of who has the ball.

    But Melo’s the only one who inherently makes all of his teammates 50% better. That’s why it’s okay that, for his career, he’s an average shooter! Stats lie!

  30. Frank O.

    Spree8nyk8: I know that nobody ever misses a chance to jab at Melo….But lets be real here.They are standing around regardless of who has the ball.

    My point was less about Melo and more about coaching. The ball moved in the first quarter and then suddenly they were running a bunch of Melo isos.

    Nice run here

  31. ess-dog

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: But Melo’s the only one who inherently makes all of his teammates 50% better. That’s why it’s okay that, for his career, he’s an average shooter! Stats lie!

    Lolz, he lies in wait for his prey and then STRIKES with precision.

  32. hoolahoop

    . . . and the games would be much more fun to watch.

    ess-dog: I think if Mike had his way, Stat would still be our center, Gallo would still be our sf and we’d have a real passing pg right now.
    This team is built for a coach with a triangle.

  33. Michael Cline

    Landry with a great drive a few possessions ago. I so want Landry to be that kind of player. Why can’t he be more consistent?

  34. hoolahoop

    Does it matter that he’s right?

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: The Honorable Cock Jowles: But Melo’s the only one who inherently makes all of his teammates 50% better. That’s why it’s okay that, for his career, he’s an average shooter! Stats lie!

    ess-dog: Lolz, he lies in wait for his prey and then STRIKES with precision.

  35. Frank O.

    Anthony force.
    Defensive break down and they give up a three.
    If he’s cold and others are hot, look to dish.

  36. Doug

    Baron lecturing Melo and TD in the timeout, presumably on their VERY POOR recent shot selection.

  37. art vandelay

    Bibby is just 100% useless….worse than I could ever have imagined in a million years….where is Lin? Even if baron davis is a shell of his former self, the greatest thing he can add to our team is probably kicking bibby out of the rotation!

  38. ess-dog

    Lin can’t even get in on this crapfest?

    If we lose, it was Melo’s fault during that cRaptor 8-2 run.

  39. Frank O.

    I’ not just bashing Melo, but have you noticed how often he goes one on four or one on five? Startling…

  40. Thomas B.

    I need to go check the archives because I know somebody told me Bibby was a low risk move. I’m sure they meant it was a low risk for Miami to let him go.

  41. Thomas B.

    Watch the game in fast forward while listening to Yakety Sax (The Benny Hill Show theme) you’ll die laughing.

  42. ess-dog

    Thomas B.:
    I need to go check the archives because I know somebody told me Bibby was a low risk move. I’m sure they meant it was a low risk for Miami to let him go.

    Bibby moving to Del Boca Vista would be a low risk move.

  43. Doug

    Thomas B.:
    I need to go check the archives because I know somebody told me Bibby was a low risk move. I’m sure they meant it was a low risk for Miami to let him go.

    Did you hear Leo Rautins arguing at the end of the 3rd that Bibby was a HIGH risk move? All I could do was gape in disbelief.

  44. Frank O.

    Thomas B.:
    I need to go check the archives because I know somebody told me Bibby was a low risk move. I’m sure they meant it was a low risk for Miami to let him go.

    He came cheap, but, man, all he is is a barely warm body

  45. Doug

    Thomas B.:
    Watch the game in fast forward while listening to Yakety Sax (The Benny Hill Show theme) you’ll die laughing.

    Toronto’s offense looks just as bad as ours, so yeah I could see that.

  46. dogrufus

    FAIL:

    To be fair, we are missing probably three of our five best players on a team whose weakness is depth. We shouldn’t expect to be anything other than a ragged mess under those circumstances.

  47. Michael Cline

    dogrufus:
    FAIL:

    To be fair, we are missing probably three of our five best players on a team whose weakness is depth.We shouldn’t expect to be anything other than a ragged mess under those circumstances.

    But have you seen the Raptor’s roster? Melo + you and me should give them a run

  48. jon abbey

    dogrufus:
    FAIL:

    To be fair, we are missing probably three of our five best players on a team whose weakness is depth.We shouldn’t expect to be anything other than a ragged mess under those circumstances.

    thank you, almost exactly what I was going to post. if they could somehow steal a win on a night where they played that bad of a quarter, that would be great, but not holding my breath.

  49. dogrufus

    Michael Cline: But have you seen the Raptor’s roster? Melo + you and me should give them a run

    Sure I’ve seen it, it isn’t that bad. Amir Johnson is a legit starter, DeRozan and Davis are developing well, and Calderon’s PG skills are about 1,958 times better than our best current PG. They’re not the worst team in the league- I don’t even think they’re necessarily even bottom 5, and they’re definitely better than say, the Sacramento Kings.

  50. Gamecockerbocker

    It’s shots like that that really make me wish we had any other person in the league besides TD (and Bibby) starting at the point… NO ONE ELSE TOUCHED THE BALL AND HE SETTLES FOR A THREE!?!?!?! I don’t know how much longer I can torture myself watching these games.

  51. Frank O.

    llcoolbp:
    this teams offense is putrid. Nate robinson and and agent zero are looking better and better right now.

    There’s a reason Nate is unsigned

  52. llcoolbp

    tony douglas is a bench player at best. Bibby is useless. Bill walker has one of lowest basketball IQ’s I have ever seen. Landry Fields is stiff. It’s hard watching this team.

  53. Michael Cline

    Like many of us said in the 1st, Melo would have to go for 45 for us to have a chance. He’s not quite there. :(

  54. llcoolbp

    it is just a shame watching someone as talented as melo playing with these scrubs. If you watched the first quarter melo was making some really nice passes, setting up wide open 3′s. His teammates can’t hit the ocean. Then you saw melo forcing it. Really what do you expect him to do, playing with these scrubs.

  55. Doug

    Z:
    Do you think D’Antoni diagramed that Melo 3 with 14 secs left on the shot clock?

    I don’t think so. The Raps announcers were talking about how TD didn’t know where he was supposed to be on the inbounds and D’Antoni had to direct traffic.

  56. cgreene

    Z:
    Do you think D’Antoni diagramed that Melo 3 with 14 secs left on the shot clock?

    Actually TD missed the play

  57. Gamecockerbocker

    Z:
    Do you think D’Antoni diagramed that Melo 3 with 14 secs left on the shot clock?

    I was listening to the Raptors telecast. Their announcers said D was screaming at Douglas after that play because he messed it up. So no that’s not what he diagramed.

  58. Gamecockerbocker

    DReDD:
    I only watched the 4th, was TD shooting 3s that short all game?

    He had a decent stretch in the third quarter… most of all it was brick city.

  59. llcoolbp

    wow, i know its early, and we can’t panic. When shump and baron davis are ready, that has to be our backcourt. I can’t take anymore of TD and fields. They are just inept. I also hope the health of thos other guys forces bill walker out of the rotation. I also never thought I would be praying for the return of jared jeffries.

  60. cgreene

    Melo took about 5-6 bad shots in this game. Can you really really blame him? I mean Landry is dead, Jorts literally hit the side of the board twice on Melo passes. I’m sorry. Melo ain’t the problem.

  61. Z

    cgreene: Actually TD missed the play

    But they had 13 seconds to run an offense looking for a good shot. It’s not TD’s fault Melo jacked up a bad shot there.

    If you’re going to shoot it quick, get an easy two (which toronto would have conceded), or take some time and get an open 3.

  62. Gamecockerbocker

    I don’t care if I’m panicking or if I’m jumping the gun… We really, really really need to trade Fields before he loses whatever value he still has.

  63. Gamecockerbocker

    Z: But they had 13 seconds to run an offense looking for a good shot. It’s not TD’s fault Melo jacked up a bad shot there.

    If you’re going to shoot it quick, get an easy two (which toronto would have conceded), or take some time and get an open 3.

    The play broke down, apparently because of Douglas, and Melo tried to salvage it.

  64. Shad0wF0x

    I think it’s really obvious to measure the teams success. If the outside shots are going in, assist rates go up and they have a very high chance of winning. The moment all the role players start missing wide open shots, is the moment where you should just change the channel. Unless if Carmelo pulls 50 out of somewhere.

  65. BigBlueAL

    Its a good thing I havent ordered my League Pass yet. If Knicks lose on Wed at home to Charlotte Im pretty sure I wont be ordering it lol

  66. latke

    Shad0wF0x:
    I think it’s really obvious to measure the teams success. If the outside shots are going in, assist rates go up and they have a very high chance of winning. The moment all the role players start missing wide open shots, is the moment where you should just change the channel. Unless if Carmelo pulls 50 out of somewhere.

    You think the Knicks are the only team like this? Basketball is all about moving the ball and forcing the defense to react. If the other team knew you were crap from behind the line, they have a ton less space they have to defend, and the result will be much success on defense.

    No, the problem is when teams stop moving the ball. This is a problem for New York and all other teams. In fact, seeing as the knicks have one of the best difficult shot makers in the league, it’s less a problem for them. Perhaps because of that option though they revert to one on one basketball more often.

    The knicks did this for one quarter– lots of ball stopping. They also were completely unable to create any rifts in the defense during Bibby’s entire 15 minutes of PT. Part of this is because Bibby plays most of his minutes with the second unit, where there really isn’t anyone else who can make plays.

    Regardless, the Raptors played a good game all around and made some difficult shots. This, combined with NY’s inconsistent offense, lead to a raptor victory.

  67. Gamecockerbocker

    I applaud Melo for not ripping right into his teammates after this loss and demanding better… Wait… maybe I don’t applaud that.

  68. Will the Thrill

    For our coach being an offensive genius, we sure do look horrible on offense. We hardly ever get easy buckets, because there is no movement. The only picks that are being set are the one lone pick on the top of the key hoping for a pick and roll that never occurs. Even the raptors looked to run plays and set screens to get each other open. The commentators talk about how we switch too much on defense and the other team literally never has to switch on our guys because there is nothing being run. All of our offense comes from a player being hot during isos (Melo, Amare) or the team catching fire from 3.

  69. Z

    Gamecockerbocker:
    I applaud Melo for not ripping right into his teammates after this loss and demanding better… Wait… maybe I don’t applaud that.

    Demand a trade back to the Nuggets?

  70. Will the Thrill

    I just can’t wait until Davis, Shumpert, and Amar’e are back to see if this is D’antoni’s plan the entire season. Also, to see if the Knicks can change their ways.

  71. BigBlueAL

    My bro just called me laughing about how T-Mac helped beat the Heat in the 4th quarter. He was at the game. Considering the crap I watched tonight wish I wouldve gone with him lol

  72. Gamecockerbocker

    Z: Demand a trade back to the Nuggets?

    Demand his team to perform like they’re on an NBA basketball team. It’s honestly embarrassing watching Fields and Douglas run our backcourt sometimes.

  73. Gamecockerbocker

    Whoever had that “Baron for player-coach” idea a couple threads back, I’m starting to like it.

  74. xduckshoex

    I still don’t understand the “I’m losing faith in D’Antoni” stuff. Why? Because he can’t squeeze good basketball out of lineups like Douglas/Walker/Fields/Jorts/Jordan? What coach WOULD be successful with those guys?

    That still doesn’t excuse some of the bonehead plays we see from Melo. Did anyone else notice how successful that Melo/Chandler pick and roll was in the second half? Why couldn’t Melo have used that in that in the first half? He waved Chandler off multiple times this game to go one on one with his defender.

  75. BigBlueAL

    To be fair like I mentioned during the 1st quarter Melo was passing to wide open guys at the 3pt line and they missed almost all of them. It was fitting that TD missed an open 3 from a Melo pass to end the game.

    Granted Melo took some crazy stupid shots but no different than what I see Kobe and Wade do all the time. Melo was a very willing passer tonight but guys just couldnt make shots.

  76. jon abbey

    Gamecockerbocker:
    Whoever had that “Baron for player-coach” idea a couple threads back, I’m starting to like it.

    that was me.

    actually D’Antoni has done a better job the last couple of games, tonight they easily could have given up and lost by 30 but they fought back. if Toronto doesn’t hit a handful of terrible shots down the stretch, NY wins going away. really nice D in the second half, but only seven baskets from the entire non-Melo/Toney team, that ain’t gonna get it done.

    Landry Fields is really becoming a case study for something, somehow he was a +13 tonight while being mostly awful.

  77. Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta) Post author

    I really for the life of me don’t get what’s wrong w/Fields. Is it as simple as his confidence being shot?

  78. d-mar

    Was at the game tonight, the loudest I’ve heard the Garden in many years when they cut it to one.

    Folks, there are guys playing a lot of minutes right now (Harrelson, Bibby, Walker) who will be lucky to get 5-6 minutes off the bench when our roster is healthy. And sad to say, Fields’ may need to ride the pine a lot more often when Shump comes back.

    Our entire offense tonight was Melo, and TD getting hot for a few minutes, and that’s not because D’Antoni is a sucky coach, it’s because most of the time there was NO ONE on the floor with any offensive abilities. Give the Zen Master that lineup tonight and see what he can accomplish.

    This loss sucked big time, but let’s not get into the blame game. We couldn’t shoot worth crap, Toronto made some tough shots down the stretch and we lost. On to the next game.

  79. BigBlueAL

    Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta):
    I really for the life of me don’t get what’s wrong w/Fields. Is it as simple as his confidence being shot?

    The only real problem right now honestly is his 3pt shooting. He is 3 for 16 from there on the season. Coming into tonight he was shooting 50% overall from the field so despite some of his ugly drives and pullup jumpers he has been fine from 2pt range he just cant make any 3pters right now.

    Also his rebounding is way down but with better rebounders on the team now (Melo/Chandler/Jorts) I guess that is to be expected.

  80. jon abbey

    he’s so passive when he gets the ball virtually every time that on the rare occasion he does try to make a move, it generally doesn’t work. when you are the starting SG and three of your five best scorers are out, you just can’t be that passive.

  81. Nick C.

    That’s with the teabagging Melo bboys there. Didja all watch the game? I know he had those two or three clanged threes off his kickouts but still 35 points on 31 FG and 8 FTs. I mean get real. That is just awful. He has to come to play beyond when everyone is attentive in the first and last five minutes. They all count.

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