he’s getting more minutes, more offensive touches, and more opportunities to get a defensive rebound with Randolph gone…. his scoring efficiency is remaining high because he and Duhon are working the pick and roll so well

I would agree that his rebound rate is affected by Randolph’s departure, and that he plays well with Duhon… but I think you are taking him a little for granted. Lee’s rebound rate was almost as good as Randolph last year, and better the year before. And he has been extremely efficient the past two years, without Duhon. Lee makes the PG look good — by catching those passes and having good timing — not just the other way around.
Anyway, I also agree with you that his big #s were easy to predict – they’re not much different than his per-minute numbers the last two years. But there were many people on the board who didn’t think it would work that way… after all, he’s playing against starters now :)

I think we more or less agree, but I don’t think similar efficiency is a given as usage increases. I think Lee’s rebounding was very likely to increase because it’s one of his best assets, a weakness for the Knicks in general, and a big gap was created by Randolph leaving.

On the scoring side, I would say I am mildly surprised that he has been able to remain as efficient with increased scoring because shots around the basket are difficult to come by. That’s why I am giving credit to both he and Duhon (and perhaps I should include the coaching staff) for their excellent play since then. I would have guessed that Harrington would score more and the rest of the team would have picked up some of the rest. But it appears Lee is getting more than his fair share. When other teams start taking away his role to the basket, the other players may start scoring more as the balls starts getting kicked out.

Great win, unfortunately I missed it.

DL could average 25 and 15 all year, and the comments would be, “It’s awesome how Chandler opens up the floor for him!”

Yeah.Greene,You seem to have missed the part of IS’s comment where he said “no matter what else is said by others.” He’s already so sure he’s right that it doesn’t matter if you get Cat Mobley to go over to his house tomorrow, he’s still going to be convinced. Much like Stephon Marbury is the evil spawn of satan, uncapable of any rational thought in IS’s mind.

Ted,I think it’s pretty much a waste of my time and energy to repond to anything you say because you are just a pain the ass, but I’m not even sure what’s prompting your silly behavior this time.If you read the original Mobley quotes it was obvious he was disappointed to be traded to the Knicks. So if another player like Francis or he publicly says that he wants to come to the Knicks it’s BS. It’s just playing the part of a good soldier.I don’t think it’s a leap based on the known information to conclude at this point that he doesn’t want to play for NY. If some NEW information comes out about his medical condition that wasn’t known by his previous two teams (that he signed waivers for) I’ll be the first to say that he should probably retire. In fact, I have no problem if he retires anyway. It’s his life, family etc… at risk. That simply doesn’t change the fact that he basically said he wanted to stay with the Clippers and based on what we know now, that may be playing a part in this.I realize you aren’t capable of accepting any point of view without arguing the other side for 100 posts and 15 days because it’s your nature, but I can assure you he was disappointed to come to the Knicks NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS. I READ HIS INITIAL RESPONSE.

IS,
Since I started coming here a few years back, this has always been a place of (mostly) logical, and often heated discussion.
To say that Stephon Marbury is an outright “bad” person incapable of any rationality or act of decency without knowing him, and to place every single ounce of blame for this situation on him without assigning even one ounce to the Knicks does not strike me as logical. So I said as much. To say that you’re so sure Cat Mobley is just taking the lazy way out and you’re unwilling to even discuss it is the equivelent of me saying I think you just had a headache and didn’t need nuero-surgery. It’s one thing to argue that your opinion in either case is right, but it’s another thing altogether to say that there is absolutely no way you can be convinced you are wrong. There’s no discussion there.
If you’re going to make very strong statements in one direction I feel like you have to expect a response from someone who disagrees. You often make very strong statements, I often disagree. Why this has to lead you to bash my character (again without knowing me), I don’t know.

Ted,

I never said Marbury was a bad person. This is kind of nonsense that I am growing very weary of and make me wish we had an ignore feature here.

I said – he’s a very self centered player, destroys team chemistry, is disliked by his teamates, was likely to behave badly if told he was out of the plans before pre season, etc…. I based that opinion on everything he has done to date as a Knick and elswhere – including his recent outbursts and unwillingness to play when asked. That’s a lot different from calling him a bad person. I more or less think you have to be an idiot to want him on your team and look forward to the day he is finally gone.

I didn’t say I wasn’t willing to discuss Mobley’s situation. I said that BARRING INCREMENTAL INFROMATION about his health, no one is going to convince me that coming to the Knicks is not a factor in this process because it was very clear from his initial comments he was disappointed by the trade. He also had no problem playing with this condition and signing waivers for two prior teams. So barring incremental information about risks to his health what do you suppose is driving all this retirement talk? (please don’t answer because I don’t want to discuss it with YOU)

Great win, unfortunately I missed it.

DL could average 25 and 15 all year, and the comments would be, “It’s awesome how Chandler opens up the floor for him!”

Yeah.Greene,You seem to have missed the part of IS’s comment where he said “no matter what else is said by others.” He’s already so sure he’s right that it doesn’t matter if you get Cat Mobley to go over to his house tomorrow, he’s still going to be convinced. Much like Stephon Marbury is the evil spawn of satan, uncapable of any rational thought in IS’s mind.

Ted,I think it’s pretty much a waste of my time and energy to repond to anything you say because you are just a pain the ass, but I’m not even sure what’s prompting your silly behavior this time.If you read the original Mobley quotes it was obvious he was disappointed to be traded to the Knicks. So if another player like Francis or he publicly says that he wants to come to the Knicks it’s BS. It’s just playing the part of a good soldier.I don’t think it’s a leap based on the known information to conclude at this point that he doesn’t want to play for NY. If some NEW information comes out about his medical condition that wasn’t known by his previous two teams (that he signed waivers for) I’ll be the first to say that he should probably retire. In fact, I have no problem if he retires anyway. It’s his life, family etc… at risk. That simply doesn’t change the fact that he basically said he wanted to stay with the Clippers and based on what we know now, that may be playing a part in this.I realize you aren’t capable of accepting any point of view without arguing the other side for 100 posts and 15 days because it’s your nature, but I can assure you he was disappointed to come to the Knicks NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS. I READ HIS INITIAL RESPONSE.

IS,
Since I started coming here a few years back, this has always been a place of (mostly) logical, and often heated discussion.
To say that Stephon Marbury is an outright “bad” person incapable of any rationality or act of decency without knowing him, and to place every single ounce of blame for this situation on him without assigning even one ounce to the Knicks does not strike me as logical. So I said as much. To say that you’re so sure Cat Mobley is just taking the lazy way out and you’re unwilling to even discuss it is the equivelent of me saying I think you just had a headache and didn’t need nuero-surgery. It’s one thing to argue that your opinion in either case is right, but it’s another thing altogether to say that there is absolutely no way you can be convinced you are wrong. There’s no discussion there.
If you’re going to make very strong statements in one direction I feel like you have to expect a response from someone who disagrees. You often make very strong statements, I often disagree. Why this has to lead you to bash my character (again without knowing me), I don’t know.

Ted,

I never said Marbury was a bad person. This is your typical nonsense that I am growing very weary of. I wish we had an ignmore feature here.

I said things like – he’s a very self centered player, destroys team chemistry, is disliked by his teamates, was likely to behave badly if told he was out of the plans before pre season, etc…. I based that on everything he has done to date as a Knick and elswhere – including his recent outbursts and unwillingness to play. That’s a lot different from calling him a bad person. I just think you have to more or less be an idiot to want him on your team and look forward to the day he is finally gone.

I didn’t say I wasn’t willing to discuss Mobley’s situation. I took exception to your tone with me. I also said that BARRING INCREMENTAL INFOMATION about his health, no one is going to convince me that coming to the Knicks is not a factor in this process because it was very clear from his initial comments he was disappointed by the trade. He also had no problem playing with this condition and signing waivers for two prior teams. So barring incremental information about risks to his health what do you suppose is driving all this retirement talk? (please don’t answer because I don’t want to discuss it with YOU)

Regarding Mobley, both of you make valid points but there are some other possibilities to consider. Firstly, maybe Mobley has a family and is eastablished in CA and doesn’t want to leave his family. Playing in NY would mean he would never see his family; assuming they weren’t open to moving. If he retired that would solve that problem. If he has children maybe his priorities of life are changing, he may not be willing to risk dying as much as he would in the past.

IS, you claim that Mobley seemed unethused to be playing for NY since he being treated like an expiring contract. However, I am 100% sure any player would rather play for D’Antoni than Dunleavy. Dunleavy has a history of being abrasive and has shown time in and time out that he is not a players coach. If you read any of Bill Simmons articles, look at the Elgin Baylor debacle, or the Elton Brand episode this would all support that theory.

If Mobley was interested in $, going to NY wouldn’t be a bad thing either. Playing under D’Antoni can help a player inflate their numbers, especially shooters like Mobley. Two years from now he may be been out of the league or signed for veterans minimum if he stayed in LA. In NY, if he strings together two good seasons he could get something closer to half or the whole mid-level exception. Also, it is not like there is a lack of minutes in NY; he would be playing probably 20+ minutes a night based on our backcourt issues.

Based on the current information it is very hard to read into the situation (any predictions Thomas B.?). Either way I wish he was playing for us right now. But if he retires I respect that, too.

“As soon as Zach left, both Lee’s rebounds and PPG improved – exactly what I would have expected. Randolph is a good rebounder, but someone on the Knicks was going to get some of the ones he used to get (especially on the defensive end). Harrington is getting some and Lee is getting some etc..
Same on the scoring end. Zach took a lot of shots per game. If you remove him, the shots don’t vanish. Harrington is taking the outside shots and Lee/Duhon have developed a great chemistry that’s getting more high quality shots for Lee.”

It’s hard not to read that as Lee-bashing. I agree with your more recent post, but the first post read exactly like your point was “to dimish his accomplishments.” I mean Malik Rose (or even Wilson Chandler) also could have stepped up in Zach’s absence, but it hasn’t happened.
I tend to agree with Caleb that you seem to take Lee for granted, would you say, for example, that Kevin Garnett was simply taking the minutes and touches left behind by Donyell Marshall in Minnesota? (Garnett played twice as many minutes his rookie season as Marshall had the season before, but it was supposed to be a ridiculously exaggerated example.)

he’s getting more minutes, more offensive touches, and more opportunities to get a defensive rebound with Randolph gone…. his scoring efficiency is remaining high because he and Duhon are working the pick and roll so well

I would agree that his rebound rate is affected by Randolph’s departure, and that he plays well with Duhon… but I think you are taking him a little for granted. Lee’s rebound rate was almost as good as Randolph last year, and better the year before. And he has been extremely efficient the past two years, without Duhon. Lee makes the PG look good — by catching those passes and having good timing — not just the other way around.

Anyway, I also agree with you that his big #s were easy to predict – they’re not much different than his per-minute numbers the last two years. But there were many people on the board who didn’t think it would work that way… after all, he’s playing against starters now :)

Great win, unfortunately I missed it.

DL could average 25 and 15 all year, and the comments would be, “It’s awesome how Chandler opens up the floor for him!”

Yeah.Greene,You seem to have missed the part of IS’s comment where he said “no matter what else is said by others.” He’s already so sure he’s right that it doesn’t matter if you get Cat Mobley to go over to his house tomorrow, he’s still going to be convinced. Much like Stephon Marbury is the evil spawn of satan, uncapable of any rational thought in IS’s mind.

Ted,
I think it’s pretty much a waste of my time and energy to repond to anything you say because you are just a pain the ass, but I’m not even sure what’s prompting your silly behavior this time.
If you read the original Mobley quotes it was obvious he was disappointed to be traded to the Knicks. So if another player like Francis or he publicly says that he wants to come to the Knicks it’s BS. It’s just playing the part of a good soldier.
I don’t think it’s a leap based on the known information to conclude at this point that he doesn’t want to play for NY. If some NEW information comes out about his medical condition that wasn’t known by his previous two teams (that he signed waivers for) I’ll be the first to say that he should probably retire. In fact, I have no problem if he retires anyway. It’s his life, family etc… at risk. That simply doesn’t change the fact that he basically said he wanted to stay with the Clippers and based on what we know now, that may be playing a part in this.
I realize you aren’t capable of accepting any point of view without arguing the other side for 100 posts and 15 days because it’s your nature, but I can assure you he was disappointed to come to the Knicks NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS. I READ HIS INITIAL RESPONSE.

IS,

Since I started coming here a few years back, this has always been a place of (mostly) logical, and often heated discussion.

To say that Stephon Marbury is an outright “bad” person incapable of any rationality or act of decency without knowing him, and to place every single ounce of blame for this situation on him without assigning even one ounce to the Knicks does not strike me as logical. So I said as much. To say that you’re so sure Cat Mobley is just taking the lazy way out and you’re unwilling to even discuss it is the equivelent of me saying I think you just had a headache and didn’t need nuero-surgery. It’s one thing to argue that your opinion in either case is right, but it’s another thing altogether to say that there is absolutely no way you can be convinced you are wrong. There’s no discussion there.

If you’re going to make very strong statements in one direction I feel like you have to expect a response from someone who disagrees. You often make very strong statements, I often disagree. Why this has to lead you to bash my character (again without knowing me), I don’t know.

btw – I forgot, but we don’t have a second-round pick this year. Part of the Curry trade.