Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, July 24, 2014

2012 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Wizards

Someone said the Knicks have a new point god (not a type-o)/savior. Interesting. Hadn’t heard much about that…

Commence caterwauling!

228 comments on “2012 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Wizards

  1. Veal Scalabrine

    To all KBer’s: Apologies for the thread interruption–I’m a devout reader of KB; haven’t yet posted much–but I’d be so grateful to anyone willing to take 2 minutes to complete a survey (link below) I made for my “applied quantitative analytics” class at the New School. It’s a small part of a larger project on the comparative role of advanced metrics in sport. Would love for everyone to participate, given the high collective b-ball IQ of this forum and its emphasis on cutting-edge statistical methodologies. A big thanks to Jim Cavan, Mike Kurylo, and all the others who have participated thus far. Thanks again; in Lin we trust!

    http://edu.surveygizmo.com/s3/804008/Who-Is-the-Best-NBA-Center-of-the-Last-25-Years

  2. llcoolbp

    that leaves them 38 games after that. 20-18 would take them to 30-36, not sure if that will be enough. If it is its an 8 seed in the east, which means heat or bulls.

  3. Frank O.

    A little slow right now. Lin picks up two quick fouls. Not good. Too respectful of McGee. Need to attack him an get him in foul trouble.
    Too many threes

  4. max fisher-cohen

    yeah, both calls against Lin were BS. The second was absolutely a charge. Wall took a step and a half before he ran Lin over. The offense isn’t that bad. Missed some gimmes at the rim as well as open threes. Defense has been rather average.

  5. KnickInSeattle

    Wow, if any of you guys worked for me you’d be fired.
    Yeah, it’s been a rough start, but you sound like bitter old women who are (not so secretly) delighted when their dour predictions seem to come true.

  6. BigBlueAL

    Frank O.:
    A little slow right now. Lin picks up two quick fouls. Not good. Too respectful of McGee. Need to attack him an get him in foul trouble.
    Too many threes

    Every single 3pter (except for Lin’s) were WIDE OPEN catch and shoot shots. If they are gonna miss those shots tonight they wont reach 70 points.

  7. BigBlueAL

    The offense has been fine so far in terms of the shots they are getting. Problem is they are missing them and Jeffries is getting way too many shots lol

  8. llcoolbp

    guys we love to root for the scrubs, but games like this show why we need the real players. Knicks are lucky if they go 1-2 in he next 3. I would take that in a heartbeat.

  9. Dan Panorama

    The Lin/Novak ESP is a great thing. But so is the Lin/Chandler and even Lin/Jeffries…..guy has great court vision

  10. Brian Cronin

    This is how good Lin is right now. The Wizards are overplaying the lane to block him from driving – and he still manages to drive to the basket for an easy bucket!!!

  11. Dan Panorama

    I live in DC — it’s like that every game. Waaaaaay more ex-NYers in the crowd every time, partly because attendance is so lousy anyway. You can get tickets under 10 dollars against a weak team.

  12. Frank O.

    Um, Verizon Center feels a little like MSG. Lin has got people shooting in the flow. Chandler is lord of the paint

  13. TheXman

    I mean this is pretty much the D’Antoni offense, you need to rely on great PG skills. Not saying Lin is nash, but he has been pretty adequate as of now, we’ll see how the defenses adjust to him. He will need to knock down some shots.

  14. max fisher-cohen

    And I’m willing to bet that John Wall will never be on a playoff team as one of the three best players on his team. He is not good. He has one plus skill: his speed in the open court. He can’t shoot, he’s an average passer and he definitely has the “I grew up watching Iverson highlights” disease of driving into the lane without a plan.

  15. Frank O.

    Decent pace so far. The Wizards have some athletes, just ther confidence collapses when Knicks made a run. If Amare and Melo were here with Lin, this would be a feast.

  16. Brian Cronin

    Decent pace so far. The Wizards have some athletes, just ther confidence collapses when Knicks made a run. If Amare and Melo were here with Lin, this would be a feast.

    Doesn’t it just get you salivating at the thought of him playing with Melo and STAT?

  17. TheXman

    Brian Cronin: That was a perfect “no no no YES!” shot.

    He had no choice with the shot clock winding down, as the PNR broke down. Difference between him and say JWall, is that Jwall would take that shot with 14 seconds left on the clock. Jeremy His Shot is FalLIN keeps it up!

  18. Nick C.

    Man Lin is just awesome! The only PG I can remember watching regularly that was this adept at making the perfect pass to set his teamsters up like this was Jason Kidd. I know it’s only three games but vision, touch, ability to penetrate, choose the type of pass that will get there are not flukes or products of small sample size. It’s a gift and he has it.

  19. Doug

    TheXman:
    Jwall trying to take JLin one-on-one each time, feeling like he’s got something to prove.

    Oh, he remembers that summer league game where Jeremy torched him. He remembers…

  20. Tony Pena

    TheXman:
    Jwall trying to take JLin one-on-one each time, feeling like he’s got something to prove.

    +1. I thought he was a little smarter than that. Shit was years ago, let it go.

  21. Frank O.

    Brian Cronin: Doesn’t it just get you salivating at the thought of him playing with Melo and STAT?

    Absolutely. We’re at the game. So bummed those guys aren’t playing, but Lin is making this exciting.
    Lin is making wall look like a, ahem, Lincompoop.

  22. Ben R

    Lin looks really good. It’s a shame Novak is terrible at basketball because with his jumper if he had even an iota of basketball skill on either end other than that shot he would be a really nice player.

  23. TheXman

    Lead could be bigger I feel too, they need to play some better D. They only have Jwall scoring, McGee if he runs in the right direction shouldn’t be able to score over Chandler.

  24. Frank O.

    Nick C.:
    Man Lin is just awesome!The only PG I can remember watching regularly that was this adept at making the perfect pass to set his teamsters up like this was Jason Kidd. I know it’s only three games but vision, touch, ability to penetrate,choose the type of pass that will get there are not flukes or products of small sample size. It’s a gift and he has it.

    what makes him different is he limits his mistakes, keeps his head up and maintains his dribble. Simple, fundamental.

  25. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    damnb u guys are too funny i was reading everything in order and just put on the game and its soooooooooo funny how you were about to throw lin and everybody else under the bus. now you think they are gods. smh make up your mind. and to the guy who said how good is wall. i ask how good is deron williams and deron harris? our pg is a lin-a-beast.

  26. Nick C.

    Frank O.: what makes him different is he limits his mistakes, keeps his head up and maintains his dribble. Simple, fundamental.

    I think that is a lot of it. With the exception of the “Rubio” pass nothing fancy, just sound basketball. Anyhrw, back to SU-Georgetown fir me. Thank you DVR.

  27. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    Lin is stopping his dribble too much and everybody is not continuing their movement to the basket its just a small adjustment hopefully mda saw it. tighten up on d nyk

  28. d-mar

    Not sure what Billy Walker brings to the table. He’s a dumb player, plays average D and hits an occasional 3. I understand they have depth issues, but he needs to sit down.

  29. TheXman

    Jwall really trying to make it a 1-on-1 game, I really hope the Knicks win. Keep playing like that JWall

  30. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    lin said you just gonna have to pick up your ankles wall and the rest of you scrubs theses sneakers were made in asia. boom down your esophagus

  31. Mulligan

    Frank O.:
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Lin posterizes!!!!!

    Haha, does it count as posterizes if no one on the defense steps up to defend it? No one to be on the poster!

  32. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    tyson chandler said get of me son this is my house and my rimm and i say say im throwing it down

  33. Frank O.

    Lin is effortless on the drive. Seein him live, he’s in control in the air and utterly competent with both hands.

  34. d-mar

    TheXman:
    Lin is not as good of a dribbler as Nash, but I hope he gets better

    I was just thinking his game does remind me a lot of Nash, but Nash is a way better shooter.

  35. TheXman

    One thing also, Wall doesn’t care about the wins, just cares if he has more points than J BallllLIN. JBallllin’ out of control cares about getting his teammates involved and making the right play.

  36. Frank O.

    TheXman:
    Lin is not as good of a dribbler as Nash, but I hope he gets better

    Seriously?
    Is this analysis?
    Of course he’s not Nash.
    But trust me, his dribbling is pretty competent. His vision is extraordinary

  37. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    TheXman:
    One thing also, Wall doesn’t care about the wins, just cares if he has more points than J BallllLIN.JBallllin’ out of control cares about getting his teammates involved and making the right play.

    thats it lins new knick name j-balLin tanx xman

  38. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    wow i see that play happening all day with lin and amare/chandler and carmelo/chandler wow smh what a play

  39. daaarn

    Wow, seriously, Wall? He had all that time and space to get a closer shot. I think he just gave up…

  40. TheXman

    Is it too soon to declare Lin is the real deal? Serious question because he’s done this against 3 terrible defensive teams.

  41. Droidz1979

    Bruno Almeida:
    I mean, anyone still doubts Chandler is an incredible basketball player?

    Chandler is worth every penny the Knicks are paying him and more. The hustle and leadership are priceless stuffs that stat just don’t/can’t measure.

  42. Owen

    “I mean, anyone still doubts Chandler is an incredible basketball player?”

    He totally can’t create his own shot off the dribble. WORTHLESS.

  43. Bruno Almeida

    TheXman:
    Is it too soon to declare Lin is the real deal?Serious question because he’s done this against 3 terrible defensive teams.

    Utah is over .500 and is a pretty decent team, and one of those terrible teams had a consensus top 3 PG playing against him…

    Washington is terrible, but Wall is a pretty tough matchup too, he’s dumb and inexperienced but hell, is he fast.

  44. matte sideburns

    Was it really only a fortnight ago that I was wishing we could find another player seemingly from nowhere, like we did with Mozgov?

  45. Droidz1979

    BigBlueAL:
    Besides Lin and Chandler’s greatness tonight much props for Shump’s play tonight too.

    And Novak with the highest +/- stat for the night at +24!

  46. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    23 points 10 assists 2 turnovers 4 rebounds 1block 1 steal……. damn whata stat stuffer now thats j balLin

  47. TheXman

    balllLIN out of control, wow that was just enjoyable to watch. fucking great, it’s so easy to root for these guys. Shump had a great game too, he needs to drive more. You MAD John Wall? Lol at him storming off and taking off his jersey, hey at least you scored more points!

  48. Frank

    I love that he has some swagger out there. And I especially love how he’s a restricted FA for the next 2 years at least.

  49. Nick C.

    Owen:
    “I mean, anyone still doubts Chandler is an incredible basketball player?”

    He totally can’t create his own shot off the dribble. WORTHLESS.

    yeah no shot. He missed his two jump shots. :-) (please activate sarcasm detectors)

  50. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    Owen:
    “I mean, anyone still doubts Chandler is an incredible basketball player?”

    He totally can’t create his own shot off the dribble. WORTHLESS.

    yeah he only alters everybody else’s shot runs the pick and roll perfectly, has great hands and sky’s for all his alley oops oh and i almost forgot rebounds like a beast smh. yeah your a winner

  51. The Infamous Cdiggy

    The league will eventually game-plan for Lin, but if at the very worst that happens, Lin can at least keep giving us this til B.Davis is finally ready.

    That said… WOW!!! Has it been THAT long since we seen such classic PG play? Yeah the Wizards stink, but that was FUN!

  52. Nick C.

    Chandler made me think of when the older kid came and played ball with you when you were a kid. Total grown man game.

  53. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    ALL I GOTTA SAY AT LEAST WE KNOW LIN IS NOT A FLUKE!!!!!! HE IS REALLY CONSISTENT!!!!!!!! YES WE FOUND A STARTING POINT GUARD. THANK YOU BASKETBALL GODS.

  54. TheXman

    Well how do you defend against the JLin effectively? Don’t you think they would’ve figured it out by now? I mean JWall is no slouch, while McGee in the paint. Granted the Wizards are a bunch of retards, we’ll see how J Shao-Lin performs against KOBE, then has to drive through PAU and Bynum. If they seriously pull the upset against the Lakers, it’ll be pure hysteria.

  55. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    The Infamous Cdiggy:
    The league will eventually game-plan for Lin, but if at the very worst that happens, Lin can at least keep giving us this til B.Davis is finally ready.

    That said… WOW!!!Has it been THAT long since we seen such classic PG play?Yeah the Wizards stink, but that was FUN!

    YOU CAN GAME PLAN FOR LIN ALL DAY BUT YOU STILL HAVE 4 OTHER PLAYERS TO WORRY ABOUT. THAT JUST MAKES HIM THAT MUCH MORE DANGEROUS. TYSON CHANDLER AMRE MELO FIELDS LIN BEST STARTING FIVE IN THE LEAGUE HANDS DOWN. NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE TO GAME PLAN FOR MELO AND AMARE BUT NOW LIN AND CHANDLER CAUSE THEY RUN THE PI AND ROLL SO WELL. SO LET THEM PLAN FOR LIN ALL THEY WANT, ITS TOO DAMN LATE!!!!!!!!!! BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  56. Dan Panorama

    Yeah, the great thing about Lin’s game is even if his shot cools down, his court vision, insane passing angles, and first step aren’t going anywhere, which means he’ll be able to contribute no mater what.

    Reminds me so much of a jumper-less Steve Nash — love the way he just lives under the basket Nash-style and then unpredictably kicks out to the open guy you didn’t notice.

  57. daaarn

    TheXman:
    Well how do you defend against the JLin effectively?Don’t you think they would’ve figured it out by now? I mean JWall is no slouch, while McGee in the paint.Granted the Wizards are a bunch of retards, we’ll see how J Shao-Lin performs against KOBE, then has to drive through PAU and Bynum.If they seriously pull the upset against the Lakers, it’ll be pure hysteria.

    I’ll be keeping my expectations low for the Lakers game. I’m not expecting Lin to go for 20+, but as long as Lin doesn’t turn the ball over too much and keeps his passing game up, that’ll be enough for me.

  58. ess-dog

    I’d still do the Deron for Melo trade in a friggin’ heartbeat. Lin-Deron-Fields-Amare-Chandler would be sweet with Shump and “Buckets” Novak off the bench? Maybe a side of Jorts?

    Amirite???

  59. Mulligan

    ess-dog:
    I’d still do the Deron for Melo trade in a friggin’ heartbeat.Lin-Deron-Fields-Amare-Chandler would be sweet with Shump and “Buckets” Novak off the bench?Maybe a side of Jorts?

    Amirite???

    Lin & Deron? Why would that make sense (not saying Lin’s > Deron, but what’s your hope? that plays off guard? backup pg? how is that an upgrade?)

  60. BigBlueAL

    Dan Panorama:
    Also — aren’t first year PGs supposed to suck? How is this even possible?

    D’Antoni has a pretty good offensive system. Granted it seems pretty basic but its amazing what spacing the floor and running solid pick’n'rolls can do for an offense.

  61. bobneptune

    Ben R:
    Lin looks really good. It’s a shame Novak is terrible at basketball because with his jumper if he had even an iota of basketball skill on either end other than that shot he would be a really nice player.

    hey… steve kerr won 5 rings with a similar unidimensional skill set under the proper circumstances.

  62. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    Mulligan: Lin & Deron? Why would that make sense (not saying Lin’s > Deron, but what’s your hope? that plays off guard? backup pg? how is that an upgrade?)

    THE DUMBEST MOVE THE KNICKS CAN DO IS CHANGE THERE CORE PLAYERS MEANING CHANDLER, AMARE, MELO, FIELDS, LIN, SHUMPERT, NOVAK, JEFFRIES, JORTS, AND TO SOME EXTENT _____ AND BARON DAVIS OTHER THAN THAT EVERYBODY ELSE CAN GO. THE KNICKS HAVE WHAT THEY NEED TO GO DEEP IN THE PLAYOFFS IF THEY CAN PLAY WITHIN THE MDA SYSTEM AND KEEP GETTING BETTER ON D

  63. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    AND FOR THE LAKE SHOW WE NEED CHANDLER PLAYING D ON BYNUM, JEFFRIES LOCKING DOWN GASOL, FIELDS AS SMALL FOWARD, SHUMPERT ON KOBE AND LIN. NUFF SAID ITS POSSIBLE TO BEET THE “LATE LAKE SHOW”.

  64. jon abbey

    bobneptune: hey… steve kerr won 5 rings with a similar unidimensional skill set under the proper circumstances.

    “the proper circumstances”=playing alongside two alltime greats.

  65. ess-dog

    “JEFFRIES LOCKING DOWN GASOL”

    Oh THAT’S all we need? Whew…

    OK how about Melo for a bag of Lays potato chips, some Duracell batteries and roughly $19 million dollars, give or take a few dollars?

  66. bobneptune

    jon abbey: “the proper circumstances”=playing alongside two alltime greats.

    correct…. there is a place for unidimensional shooters with no other skill.

  67. bobneptune

    i thought the most promising part of the game was the proper ball distribution. 6 players all had 10-14 shots each and 5 of them hit > 50% from the floor because they were delivered the ball in the correct places for them.

    everybody got fair chances with the ball in favorable places for them. amar’e won’t have any problem fitting in as he ran this offense with nash all his career, but it remains to be seen if melo will buy into such an egalitarian system.

    if he resists… he can go as far as i am concerned.

  68. Bruno Almeida

    bobneptune:
    i thought the most promising part of the game was the proper ball distribution. 6 players all had 10-14 shots each and 5 of them hit > 50% from the floor because they were delivered the ball in the correct places for them.

    everybody got fair chances with the ball in favorable places for them. amar’e won’t have any problem fitting in as he ran this offense with nash all his career, but it remains to be seen if melo will buy into such an egalitarian system.

    if he resists… he can go as far as i am concerned.

    yeah, and the spacing was really, really awesome… every time Lin went for the high pnr with Chandler, Walker, Fields and Novak each went to the 3 pt line, and it really opened up the defense, every time Novak’s man helped off him, Lin found him and he hit the shot.

    that’s basketball 101, no defense can stop a team that spaces the floor well and has a guard who can run the pnr well… the only way to stop it is to have freakish athletes who can help AND recover in the same play, and Miami is the only team that has that, and maybe Chicago and Philadelphia.

  69. cgreene

    Lin will have control of the ball when Melo and Amare get back. If you double off the pnr or over hedge to try and get the ball out of his hands 3 of his 4 options will be Melo, Stat and Tyson. That will put a ton of pressure on the defense. I believe this could work very well.

  70. Jim Cavan

    I said this on Twitter, but I can’t get it out of my head: The fact that this guy can escape under the radar so many times just goes to show the lack of creativity / intelligence inherent in many an NBA front office / coaching staff. I feel like D’Antoni gets a slight pass for overlooking him simply because the team had no practice time in which to really evaluate him. But Golden State and Houston? Good lord. I mean, I know our “system” is more tailor-made to his abilities, but his skills I feel would translate effectively into any system.

    Unreal.

  71. Bruno Almeida

    And this is a perfect “system” for Melo, because he is capable of both running the pnr and spotting up when somebody else does it, he’s pretty much the ideal player for this kind of offense if he goes with the flow.

  72. d-mar

    cgreene:
    Lin will have control of the ball when Melo and Amare get back.If you double off the pnr or over hedge to try and get the ball out of his hands 3 of his 4 options will be Melo, Stat and Tyson.That will put a ton of pressure on the defense.I believe this could work very well.

    Agreed, Melo was playing a lot of point forward, which he’d be the first to admit he’s not comfortable with. Now he can be another option on offense as opposed to having to initiate it.

  73. BigBlueAL

    Jim Cavan:
    I said this on Twitter, but I can’t get it out of my head: The fact that this guy can escape under the radar so many times just goes to show the lack of creativity / intelligence inherent in many an NBA front office / coaching staff. I feel like D’Antoni gets a slight pass for overlooking him simply because the team had no practice time in which to really evaluate him. But Golden State and Houston? Good lord. I mean, I know our “system” is more tailor-made to his abilities, but his skills I feel would translate effectively into any system.

    Unreal.

    It sucks that the Knicks claimed him I believe the day after Christmas. Lin joined the team after the season started so no training camp for D’Antoni to see him.

  74. Bruno Almeida

    Jim Cavan:
    I said this on Twitter, but I can’t get it out of my head: The fact that this guy can escape under the radar so many times just goes to show the lack of creativity / intelligence inherent in many an NBA front office / coaching staff. I feel like D’Antoni gets a slight pass for overlooking him simply because the team had no practice time in which to really evaluate him. But Golden State and Houston? Good lord. I mean, I know our “system” is more tailor-made to his abilities, but his skills I feel would translate effectively into any system.

    Unreal.

    Houston has Lowry and Dragic playing really well, they probably wanted to keep Lin but just couldn’t find minutes for him.

    now, Golden State, that’s really stupid… to get rid of this guy in order to give major minutes to… Nate Robinson? pathetic.

  75. bobneptune

    cgreene:
    Lin will have control of the ball when Melo and Amare get back…..

    that completely defends on melo. he can either buy into the offense, or he can tire of not being the primary, secondary and tertiary focus and go into his pound the ball act and sulk.

    the choice is his. but at least now they have a competent ball distributor with a feel for the game running things.

    it is really funny how the guy just fell out of thin air.

  76. Frank O.

    I have been an optimist about this team from day one. Lin is a blind-side, but this is not flash in the pan stuff. He has great vision, is patient, self-contained and he makes everyone better. The entire starting five and some reserves, I think scored in double figures.
    He is hitting guys in rhythm and they are knocking down shots.
    He penetrates at will and when they try to collapse, he dishes out or finds a big for a dunk. When teams have over played his left, he’s protecting the ball and getting fouled.
    He outplayed Williams, killed a good Jazz team, and he is clearly a better point guard than Wall. Wall had a few more points, but not as many assists. Wall doesn’t play with his mates.
    I’m telling you, if he holds up physically, there is no way Baron takes the starting job from him. Davis is going to play the deuce and sub at the point. We’ll have a four guard rotation of Lin, Fields, Davis and Shump.
    What needs to happen when Melo returns is that Melo needs to understand that Lin needs to run the offense, and Melo needs to play off him. He will not need to play ISO, and with the game on the line, Lin needs to have the ball. Amare is going to be one happy dude.
    Novak, btw, is a fantastic shooter.

  77. TheXman

    Jim Cavan:
    I said this on Twitter, but I can’t get it out of my head: The fact that this guy can escape under the radar so many times just goes to show the lack of creativity / intelligence inherent in many an NBA front office / coaching staff. I feel like D’Antoni gets a slight pass for overlooking him simply because the team had no practice time in which to really evaluate him. But Golden State and Houston? Good lord. I mean, I know our “system” is more tailor-made to his abilities, but his skills I feel would translate effectively into any system.

    Unreal.

    Or the fact that he’s asian and probably can’t play ball if not over 7 foot 6. He didn’t get any D-1 scholarships, Stanford and UCLA would not give him a roster spot and he would’ve had to walk-on. What a joke.

  78. Bruno Almeida

    Owen:
    It would be so awesome if Melo weren’t a Knick….

    it’s pretty depressing that everything we discuss needs to have a “if Melo buys into the system” or “if Melo stops isolating so much”, instead of having an estabilished superstar and focusing on making the team around him better…

    but well, that’s what we get for having such a pathetic owner.

  79. rururuland2

    Bruno Almeida: it’s pretty depressing that everything we discuss needs to have a “if Melo buys into the system” or “if Melo stops isolating so much”, instead of having an estabilished superstar and focusing on making the team around him better…but well, that’s what we get for having such a pathetic owner.

    My god.

    You know, this is the first time Melo will have ever played with a traditional pick and roll point guard. He’s never been put in the situation before.

    The last time he played with passing point guard was 2006, where he was averaging nearly 32 ppg on over 50 from the field.

    He was a great player on Team USA playingg off the ball with virtually no ISO (until the team needed to be bailed out against Italy).

    Y’all need to give it a rest.

  80. BahoPuwet

    Miami, FLORIDA—–Miami Herald:
    Published reports confirmed that Isiah Thomas, head coach of FIU Golden Panthers, claimed that he drafted Jeremy Lin for the NY Knicks. Furthermore, Isiah indicated that he mentored Lin personally during his point guard summer camp. Isiah said the he doesn’t to be credited for Jeremy’s early success in the NBA.

  81. cgreene

    Owen:
    It would be so awesome if Melo weren’t a Knick….

    that’s a pretty absurd opinion basketball-wise. he could very well fit into this situation perfectly. imagine the plays that involved jeffries in the 1st q being melo and amare. say what you want about the guy but he is a great player who could be better with better teammates

  82. rururuland2

    ess-dog: “JEFFRIES LOCKING DOWN GASOL”Oh THAT’S all we need? Whew…OK how about Melo for a bag of Lays potato chips, some Duracell batteries and roughly $19 million dollars, give or take a few dollars?

    So, is this a referendum on Melo or were there signs that the Knicks were turning the corner just before Lin came off the bench, and does the Knicks recent (solid) offensive games have to do with having a point guard, or Melo not being on the floor.
    Give me a damn break.

  83. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Owen:
    It would be so awesome if Melo weren’t a Knick….

    Cmon man stop that. What’s done is done – this team hasn’t really been at full strength yet this season. Give everyone – including Melo – a chance to operate at full strength.

  84. rururuland2

    Bruno Almeida: @201well, I’ll believe it when I see it.

    Fair enough. I’ve seen it. Time over.

    Moreover, we have already been seeing it the less guys like Toney Douglas were seeing the floor.

    I guess it’s just beyond imagination that Melo would defer more of the ballhandling and isolation when there’s actually another guy on the floor capable of both intitiating the offense and creating plays.

    Melo surely hates playing off the ball and getting easier shots.

  85. Tim Tennell

    I think we should trade Lin to the Cavs for Sessions & a 1st rounder while his stock is through the roof!

  86. Degree_Absolute

    Great team effort once again. Lin is proving to be a stabilizing force for a Knicks team that was drowning without a true point guard. I think the meme that Lin allows our other players to slide back into their natural roles definitely rings true. This squad is starting to give me feelings I haven’t felt since the first half of last season.

  87. er

    Yea the Melo stuff is pretty old……….if the haters would take a second to understand the possibility of this team with melo jorts stat all back HEALTHY in body and mind and possibly picking up jr smith and getting BD this team can be very scary

    Carmelo was great in all of his olympic experiance with a real pg and was pretty good last yr

    Amare as all of you Amare defenders have said needs a pg

    now shumpert is under less pressure to bring up the ball and he and fields can focus on being great glue guys

    and Chandler can keep up his great play

    and the knicks can also use a front court of melo novak and amare to gash teams offensively

  88. rururuland2

    Degree_Absolute: Great team effort once again. Lin is proving to be a stabilizing force for a Knicks team that was drowning without a true point guard. I think the meme that Lin allows our other players to slide back into their natural roles definitely rings true. This squad is starting to give me feelings I haven’t felt since the first half of last season.

    The idea of a Melo,Chandler, Amar’e, Lin, Jr Smith starting five, with Baron Davis, Shumpert, Fields and yes, Jeffries coming off the bench can absolutely compete with any team in the NBA in a 7 game series.

    Knock on wood of course, but this has all the makings of one of the great turnarounds the NBA has ever seen.

    Like some of us have been saying all along, the effect of having a an actual point guard, let alone one that is actually good, is really difficult to measure.

    An overworn and imperfect analogy, but it’s tough to be great receiver when you’re playing running backs and offensive lineman at quarterback.

  89. Degree_Absolute

    er: possibly picking up jr smith

    Smith is probably going to the Clippers. I sort of like the idea of him coming here, but with the emergence of Lin, I think he really isn’t needed. Whose minutes would he get? Novak has done a good job as instant offense off the bench, but when Melo is back and BD is back, we are gonna have like 10 minutes max to give to another 2/3. Clippers are probably a better situation for him.

  90. Shad0wF0x

    With Billups out, I think the allure of more potential playing time will lead J.R. Smith to the Clippers.

  91. rururuland2

    Degree_Absolute: Smith is probably going to the Clippers. I sort of like the idea of him coming here, but with the emergence of Lin, I think he really isn’t needed. Whose minutes would he get? Novak has done a good job as instant offense off the bench, but when Melo is back and BD is back, we are gonna have like 10 minutes max to give to another 2/3. Clippers are probably a better situation for him.

    Well, LA times recently reported Knicks were still favorite for Smith, this was after Billups’ injury.

    Here is how I dole out minutes:

    Melo: 36
    Amar’e: 34
    Chandler: 32
    Lin: 32
    Smith:26
    Davis:20
    Fields:26
    Shumpert:20
    Jeffries: 17

    That’s 240 minutes.

    JR Smith is significantly better than Novak, despite his little shooting streak he’s on. Smith is better than baron Davis for that matter, if you really want to get down to it.

  92. max fisher-cohen

    Yeah, JR Smith is ideal as a sixth man, but that’ Shumpert’s current role, and lost in the Lin mania has been Shumpert’s vastly improved play. The PnR is giving him angles to the rim, and he’s really starting to attack, using his size and athleticism to get there.

  93. Tony Pena

    Some people need to look at themselves in the mirror and accept the fact that they don’t like Melo as a person. Think, you’d love to hang out with other Knick players, but not really him. Right? Right? It’s gotta be that because I don’t think some of ya have really thought about what he was being asked to do. Which is, change his game almost completely where he is basically player. You know how hard that is? The tens of thousands of hours he’s spent on the gym, playing pick up games, mental preparation, conditioning, etc. have all been geared to be a prolific scorer. Just like Nash’s have been to be a passer and orchestrator. And like every other player gears his preparation to play a certain role. I mean what was happening with this team recently? Everybody was playing out of position. And the results were ugly. Are Shump, Tony, Bibby selfish, worthless players who refused to do what D’Antoni was asking? No!!! They were doing things that they are not good at. There are very few players, ever, who can do everything not named Jordan. I mean, the knock on Lebron is he can’t “close games”. Well, for lack of a better phrase, he’s not “built like that”! He’s a distributor first. And we’re talking about one of the best all-around players in the game.

    Look, he needs to step up his game to win a championship. He can stop holding the ball with 20 seconds on the clock. All in all though, he’s just bee trying to do what he does best to help the team win. The guy could’ve commanded max money from about 20 other teams. He wanted to come here. He wants to win and do whats right. Get that idea out of your head that everytime he calls for the ball he’s thinking “fuck ball movement it’s time to show people what Melo can do!”. That’s just not the case. If I had to guess it’s something like “let me start dribbling and draw some attention and hopefully something opens up..”. Honestly, do you like him as a person? You don’t have to of course, but its…

  94. rururuland2

    Shad0wF0x: With Billups out, I think the allure of more potential playing time will lead J.R. Smith to the Clippers.

    Clippers still have Mo Williams and Goye.

    Still a logjam at wings and guards.

    JR wants to come home where much of his family is, play with an old friend and one of the few guys who has always had his back, and play at the Garden.

    He will love playing at MSG, he’s one of those guys, like BD, who feeds off the home crowd like very few can.

  95. rururuland2

    er: i would say some of billy walkers minutes…. do you agree ?

    Uh. like all of them. Walker and Novak become emergency guys. Smith is worlds better than both.

  96. rururuland2

    Tony Pena: … probably affecting your judgement. And Davis spending time at the 2 sounds pretty good.

    I don’t like it at all. You want Davis in distributor mode. He has tough time with motor so you want to maximize it.

    You don’t want him playing off ball and thinking shoot, and he’s not exactly a long 1 who can guard 2′s.

    Lin and Davis will split the pg. with occasional minutes from Shumpert, perhaps, so long as guys like Fields or Jr Smith are on the floor with him.

  97. max fisher-cohen

    @ruru, your minute breakdown assumes that we play 13 minutes a game with only one big. If you just look at the three backcourt spots (144 minutes) and you remember MDA plays his main guys 35 MPG unless it’s a blowout, you have this:

    Melo: 35
    Lin: 35
    Fields: 25
    Davis: 20
    Shumpert: 20
    JR Smith: 11

    Basically, either he’s left with Bill Walker’s minutes, or you bump a guy like Shumpert, Fields or Davis down to Bill Walker minutes. It like the idea of having a deep bench, but I don’t think JR Smith would be too happy about the possibility of ending up only playing 10-20 mpg, especially since he has a contract to earn this summer.

  98. rururuland2

    max fisher-cohen: @ruru, your minute breakdown assumes that we play 13 minutes a game with only one big. If you just look at the three backcourt spots (144 minutes) and you remember MDA plays his main guys 35 MPG unless it’s a blowout, you have this:Melo: 35Lin: 35Fields: 25Davis: 20Shumpert: 20JR Smith: 11Basically, either he’s left with Bill Walker’s minutes, or you bump a guy like Shumpert, Fields or Davis down to Bill Walker minutes. It like the idea of having a deep bench, but I don’t think JR Smith would be too happy about the possibility of ending up only playing 10-20 mpg, especially since he has a contract to earn this summer.

    I hear your argument. But if I can’t find 30 minutes for a guy who could possibly be the key to how deep the Knicks go in the post-season, I have a lot bigger problems.

    Smith is, frankly, the final missing piece to the puzzzle. He’d be your third (or perhaps 4th with BD) playmaker, a guy who can singlehandidly carry you on any given night against any team in the league, and the only true 2 who can spread the floor and drive to the basket on a rotating defense.

  99. Tony Pena

    rururuland2: I don’t like it at all. You want Davis in distributor mode. He has tough time with motor so you want to maximize it.

    You don’t want him playing off ball and thinking shoot, and he’s not exactly a long 1 who can guard 2?s.

    Lin and Davis will split the pg. with occasional minutes from Shumpert, perhaps, so long as guys like Fields or Jr Smith are on the floor with him.

    Valid points. But one, I can’t imagine Baron running DAntoni’s system better than Lin right now (Crazy). And two, he’s shown in the past tough and smart D, no matter the size, assuming that he’s healthy though…

  100. TheXman

    Btw His Shot is FalLIN didn’t even play PG regularly at Hahvahd. He was more of a combo guard, so he’s technically not a “natural” PG. Either that’s worrisome against better competition, or scary how much better he’s going to get. I can think of 2-3 times, that Lin was potentially going to turn the ball over but the ball bounced back to the Knicks luckily.

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