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Wednesday, November 26, 2014

Game Thread: Knicks at Celtics–We’ve Seen This Movie Before

Before we get to tonight’s game, because these are the Knicks, another internal struggle has seeped through the crevices of Madison Square Garden into the eyes and ears of the public. As you’re probably all aware, recent talks between the Knicks and Toronto Raptors have been confirmed by members of the media, revolving the trading for one Kyle Lowry. In return, it’s been reported that Toronto would receive Raymond Felton, Metta World Peace and one of three assets from the Knicks: A first round pick, Iman Shumpert or Tim Hardaway Jr.

In an unlikely turn of events, both Frank Isola and Adrian Wojnarowski have written that talks stalled due to James Dolan’s reluctance to be perceived as getting the fuzzy end of the lollipop in a deal with Masai Ujiri. Any trade including Metta World Peace cannot technically be made until Sunday, so let’s take a look at the arguments for and against this trade (if it does occur. As of this writing, there are conflicting reports that the deal is ‘dead,’ or if there’s a chance it could be revived. Some are saying that the Knicks thought they’d come to an agreement, but those dastardly Canadians got greedy.)

DO IT, NOW, NOW. NOW!

Despite sharing what might be characterized as a bulldog mentality, Lowry is a definite upgrade over Raymond Felton. Unlike Felton, Lowry is a net positive on the defensive end, +.8 points per 100 possessions last year and +8 point swing on/off the court this season. Last year Felton’s presence on the court surrendered 3.9 points per 100 possessions, and it’s no secret Raymond’s futility on that end has played a huge part in allowing opposing point guards to burn the Knicks on a nightly basis.

On the offensive end, Lowry’s efficiency trumps Felton’s with relative ease. Not once has Felton’s TS% of an individual season been higher than Lowry’s, with this year’s disparity being just short of 10% in favor of Lowry. Lowry employs similar tactics to Felton on offense, but is far more accurate. Lowry would feel right at home in pick-and-rolls with Tyson Chandler and pops with Andrea Bargnani, even if  his three-point shot is as inconsistent as Felton’s.

But, at his best, Lowry’s capable of producing gonzo numbers that stuff the stat sheet like so much… er… stuffing, much like the similarly-sized Eric Bledsoe (no, that’s not a one-to-one comparison, to be clear). Lowry is one of only 34 guards (point and two since 1986) to accumulate three or more triple doubles,. His passing is a nudge better than Felton’s, but his rebounding – albeit this year’s numbers lacking – is at another level. Lowry has already totaled 8 games with 10+ rebounds. In comparison, Felton has a mere 3 in 171 more games played.

Now Lowry’s had consistency issues (and a Feltonian problem with keeping in game shape), but even Lowry’s lesser outings would be an improvement on what the ‘Bockers have gotten from the position this season.

Long term, the deal would allow the Knicks to rid themselves of the 3 million or so that would be on the cap for the 2015-16 season. The majority of the Knicks’ current contracts expire in or by the summer of 2015, Felton’s contract extends through 2016 (with a player option that he will probably exercise). Shedding $3.9 million from the books could go towards the free agent hunt in 2015. If the Knicks want to reboot or restart in 2015, having one less contract weighing them down beyond that point helps. This assumes that the Knicks would not re-sign Lowry at the conclusion of this season.. We’ll discuss this further in a sec. Speaking of which…

DON’T DO IT. NO, NO, NO… NOT AGAIN, NOOOOOOOOOOO!

Although Kyle Lowry makes the Knicks better now, it’s worth noting the improvement won’t get New York over Indiana or Miami and will only last a few months (again, depending on whether or not they  re-sig him). As big of an upgrade as Lowry is, the Knicks problems are not going to be completely solved by installing a new floor general. This isn’t a jab at Lowry as much as it is the makeup of this Knicks roster and the befuddling performance of their head coach during the 2013 Playoffs/first 21 games.

With Lowry’s contract expiring this season, there’s little chance he accepts a one-year offer or less money than he is currently making. Meaning, the Knicks can either trade away an asset for less than a season of Kyle Lowry or they get Lowry long-term but likely find themselves hindered in their pursuit of a second star to pair with Melo. Yes, I’m assuming he’ll re-sign. Whether it’s for the full max or not, is yet to be determined, but I’d be shocked if he was anywhere but New York next year at this time.

But Felton’s contract and play is an issue, no matter what direction the organization plans on taking their team. However, this doesn’t mean he must be traded now or in a package that must include a future asset. Felton may not have appeal as a starting point guard, but as one off the bench? Based purely off conjecture, teams could show some interest and wouldn’t require Shump, Hardaway or a pick. Even in a deal more similar to the Lowry one, there’s no need to pull the trigger immediately. Felton’s contract is arguably the bigger concern at this point and it can be dealt later this season or even next season. This isn’t a realistic possibility however, given Dolan’s history with patience (or the lack thereof).

Furthermore, why does this package have to be earmarked for Kyle Lowry? WhatH about Goran Dragic of the Phoenix Suns, the subject of trade rumors earlier in the season and whose prior front office was said to covet Iman Shumpert? Whether they are still looking to deal or not is unknown, but perhaps the Knicks don’t need to settle for Lowry if they really are bent on trading more future assets.

That’s what’s at the core of all this. Save for the brief period when Walsh was jettisoning contracts to free up room for a run at LeBron,  “Sacrificing the future for a shaky present” might as well be the MSG corporate motto. Kevin McElroy‘s take on the Bargnani trade is as timely as ever:

That’s where the identity part comes in. That’s where a trade isn’t just a trade but a statement on what kind of a franchise you want to be… It’s about whether the Knicks are pivoting back towards an approach that made them a laughingstock and brought us a decade of atrocious basketball. It’s about whether lessons that should have been learned fell on deaf ears.

Even if Shumpert isn’t slated for a long and glorious career as a Knick, or if Tim Hardaway Jr. doesn’t blossom into much more than he is now, and even if that 2018 first-round draft pick turns into a bust, this would be yet another transaction piled onto the list of similar moves that tied this franchise to a cinderblock and tossed it in the Hudson River. At some point, the pin has to be reinserted into the grenade. I’m hoping today is that day.

Your move, Jim. (Dolan, not Cavan). Go Knicks!

144 comments on “Game Thread: Knicks at Celtics–We’ve Seen This Movie Before

  1. dtrickey

    Hoping the team comes out tonight with a bit of fire in the belly after the pantsing they got on Monday (errr Sunday for you guys?). Will be interesting to see the minutes JR gets tonight. It was kind of looking like during the Bulls game the minutes at the 2 were going to be split pretty evenly 3 ways between Shump, JR and TH2. Obviously this changed when Shump went down. Maybe Woodsons Chubby for JR has gone flacid?…….but probably not.

    On the Lowry trade. I personally think it’s more of a lateral move than anything. If we can get him for cheap (i.e. avoiding moving Shump, TH2 and a pick) I would be for it. It’s kind of funny reading a headline that says Dolan has vetoed a trade. I would prefer to wait to see how the team fairs after Chandler comes back. If we get to the All-Star break and need that extra bit of a push, then maybe consider pulling the trigger on a deal. Just my thoughts though.

  2. mcliff05

    Lowry would be a nice upgrade but our cap issues will hamstring our abilities to resign him. I only do the deal for Felton & metta without slump, thj or picks but Toronto won’t accept that. Any strategy that includes giving up future assets to get better now is completely f’ed for the simple reason that we are not good enough to compete this year. Just start Prigs, wait for chandler to come back and thank God for a garbage East this year.

  3. yellowboy90

    Bargs can’t establish post position against green? Sad. I had hopes for you Bargs. Kenyon with good passing and I don’t know what Shump is doing on his passes. He needs a DAp from school daze wake up!!!

  4. BigBlueAL

    After this 1st quarter the Knicks are going to trade their 2018, 2020, 2022 first round picks for Courtney “the next Michael Jordan” Lee.

  5. Robtachi

    I really hope this isn’t another night where every piece of crap the Celtics throw up there somehow goes in…

  6. dtrickey

    Fucking Courtney Lee! He’s seriously thrown up shit and he’s perfect from the field. NOt much you can do about that unfortunately. STAT looking good again so far.

  7. coyle022

    Jared Sullinger looking like Shaquille O’Neal out there…. all of these average players look like Superstars against NYK but not the rest of the league

  8. Knicks4Eva

    Fire Woodson.
    He has never once called a timeout at the right time.
    He’s always late. I think it’s because his mind doesn’t work very well.
    It certainly doesn’t work quickly.

  9. Knicks4Eva

    Also the !$@^%@#%! League Pass is the Boston broadcast. The accents and the idiocy of those 2 guys are seriously pissing me off.

  10. coyle022

    Yeah another Woodson gem-MWP is “out of the rotation.” Yet JR, coming off major knee surgery, and who has looked like absolute dogshit this year, remains in the rotation, despite hurting the team exponentially more than MWP does while on the court.

  11. BigBlueAL

    Im done watching this crap tonight. I really need to stick to my “Im done watching this team until Woodson is fired” threat lol.

  12. Knicks4Eva

    I really don’t get defending him.
    Yep, the roster sucks, yep we’re injured. Etc, etc.
    But their play is consistently poor. They’re never prepared, and it’s got to be his fault.

  13. coyle022

    It’s one thing if the offense sucks-shot making can come and go. but to be this consistently piss poor defensively, well, that’s on Woodson. Personnel be damned, you see Thibodeau turn guys like Belinelli and Dunleavy into solid defenders, yet Woodson can’t get anybody to do anything well defensively.

  14. Robtachi

    Watching Shump makes me so sad. His jumper looks more broken by the day. Another Knicks hatchet-job on one of their (few) own young talents.

  15. nicos

    “Heady” Prigs passes up a wide open three for a Bargs 18 footer and then takes another idiotic foul with the Knicks over the limit.

  16. dtrickey

    Frustrating quarter. Pretty lucky to only be down by 6. On the flip side…..Cole and Metta get in for some impact seconds!! Melo doing all he can out there, need some other guys to step up.

  17. Donnie Walsh

    Kyle Lowry’s a +27 in his game right now. Add that to the Knick’s total and we may be able to win this one! (And he’s out-rebounded our starting C too)

  18. Robtachi

    This is why I don’t kill Melo for high-volume shooting nights. When everyone else around him is laying enough brick to build a Chuck-E-Cheese, he can single-handedly keep them in the game with aggressive takes to the rack.

  19. airchibundo507

    I know people say Melo doesn’t improve his game over offseasons but has anyone else noticed how much better he is at using pump fakes in the paint? He used to get swatted a lot when he’d bulldoze to the basket, but now that he’s pumpfaking defenders into the air it seems like he’s doing a better job of getting to the line instead.

  20. JR Sec 112

    Best quarter of coaching of the year. Woody finally appreciated addition by subtraction. Kept JR on the bench first 11 minutes of the quarter despite the 2 airballs by Shump.

  21. Robtachi

    Best quarter of coaching of the year. Woody finally appreciated addition by subtraction. Kept JR on the bench first 11 minutes of the quarter despite the 2 airballs by Shump.

    Shump hasn’t been great on offense but yeah, of Shump, TH2, and JR, JR has easily been the worst pretty much all year, tonight being no exception. No reason for him to get minutes over either of them (or anyone else, really).

  22. dtrickey

    Really loving the chemistry Melo and STAT are showing. Would love to see them execute the PnR or even a little PnP more often. It’s also amazing how quickly Bargs can turn his game around. Had a really shitty start but managed to change up his game and hit his shots. Missed a rotation here or there, but at least he’s getting some good looks now.

  23. coyle022

    Big difference tonight w/ Prigioni in the starting role. Felton =stagnant , iso-ball. Priggy=pick and roll, good ball movement, Bargs+Melo with 20+ each.

  24. Nick C.

    OK one more minute with this unit tops unless they get it together. I believe these five let Celtics go up double figures in no time at all in the second.

  25. Brian Cronin

    Really loving the chemistry Melo and STAT are showing. Would love to see them execute the PnR or even a little PnP more often. It’s also amazing how quickly Bargs can turn his game around. Had a really shitty start but managed to change up his game and hit his shots. Missed a rotation here or there, but at least he’s getting some good looks now.

    Yeah, exactly. When he’s hitting his shots, it makes up for the shitty defense.

  26. JR Sec 112

    Bargs is a bad 2nd option. But a reasonable 3rd option. Having Amare as a threat opens the floor a bit for him. Things actually starting to make a bit of sense tonight.

    The more I think about it, the more I want the Lowry trade (hopefully with TH2 as the 3rd piece). Still desperately need competent guard play. With Lowry, Prigs, and Shump we can get by. Add Chandler and prob get out of the 1st round. I’ll take it. Woody needs to have the balls to bench JR for LONG stretches though.

  27. BigBlueAL

    Amazing how bad the offense has become when the game got close this quarter. Just mind-boggling how they revert to such bad offense when the game gets tight after playing great offense for the entire 2nd half. Hopefully the Celtics offense continues to struggle too.

  28. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Would’ve liked to have seen Amare set a pick for JR so JR could drive to the basket on that last trip. Melo couldn’t get post/elbow position there so the entry pass wasn’t there.

  29. JR Sec 112

    Seriously, if they just take JR out they will win this game. He is afraid to shoot, cant play D, totally stops the ball. I dont see why Woody cant see this….

  30. BigBlueAL

    KMart out with an abdominal muscle strain. That could be a few week injury. Happens alot to baseball players.

  31. JR Sec 112

    JR terrible defense AGAIN. Ok, I’m done. Can we please just fire Woody? How can he not go with the Q3 lineup that looked so good AT ALL in 4th quarter? How? Just fire him.

  32. Robtachi

    I just don’t understand what this offense is right now. This is on Woodson. There is absolutely no game plan here, just random bullshit. Coach these guys up. Draw up a play. Christ.

  33. Robtachi

    I’ll bet anybody $50 the final 2 minutes of offense will be all ISO-Melo, because Woodson has no idea what else he can do.

  34. Nick C.

    Such clueless defense on that break. Bargs and JR standing underneath the basket guarding noone while Bradley is alone in the corner.

  35. Robtachi

    What Melo said is exactly what’s happening; guys are standing around, gawking at him and just not moving.

  36. Knicks4Eva

    How many times is STAT going to be all alone in the paint and not get the ball?

    I don’t give a crap if he’s the problem or not (he is)…FIRE WOODSON.

  37. JR Sec 112

    JR will end up playing every minute of the 4th. Obviously Woody should be fired. But if Wally and Hahn dont mention it during the post game, they should be fired. Its that obvious.

  38. Hubert

    Brad Stevens worked Woodson like a mule. Attacked JR every time in the 4q and couch never reacted. Bc he’s a fucking couch.

  39. Nick C.

    More MENSA defense from Bargs and JR. Each halfassedly guards the ballhandler while Faverani catches the pass for the open layup. At least Bargs made a shot as I typed.

  40. The Infamous Cdiggy

    D.O.N.E.

    smh x 10.

    It’s not like the Celts were playing great offense to come back. Knicks offense shit the bed; everyone knows it’s going to Melo and the C’s are defending it as such.

    Melo should call out his teammates for not moving the ball around in the 4th and looking for him to make shyt happen.

  41. BigBlueAL

    Knicks going to get blown out tomorrow at home vs the Hawks, that has to be the final straw with Woodson. Please.

  42. Kahnzy

    I imagine Woodson’s play board has a big X for Melo surrounded by 5 O’s with the other 4 X’s standing in a corner somewhere. And then says he doesn’t understand why we lose.

  43. DRed

    I love coach and his whiteboard. “Throw it to Melo here. You four stand motionless here, here here and here.”

  44. Hubert

    You think Brad Stevens doesn’t know that pick and rolls against JR & AB are one of the best plays in the NBA?

    Amazing what having a coach who doesn’t think lineup stats are “still up in the air” will do for you.

  45. Kahnzy

    The worst team in the worst division in the worst conference in recent memory with the third highest payroll. GG

  46. Robtachi

    I defy anyone to have watched that 4th quarter and claim Woodson is not a huge problem for this team. Knicks scored 13 points in the quarter after shooting well the entire rest of the game, including efficient double figures from Melo, STAT and Bargs.

    Fire Woodson now. Fire him yesterday.

  47. yellowboy90

    Forcing the ball into Melo that long stretch killed the Knicks. They still had opportunities when they started moving the ball and working the pnr but consistently missed an open stat on several possessions. Despite all that I think none of that happens if Udrih didn’t start the 4th qtr. I still put 65% on Melo.

  48. Frank O.

    How is it that stat can score pretty much at will, and all we see is Melo taking impossible shots in the last five minutes of every game?
    And I like many of you saw JR go down with hand on head and thought, “Yes!”

  49. Brian Cronin

    I’m honestly just impressed that they gave a shit out there tonight. I know that that should be something you just normally expect to see, but it isn’t. Not with this team. So I am still happy about that.

    The coaching in the fourth quarter was awful, though. However, could Allan Houston really possibly do any better? I imagine he’d do the exact same shitty coaching.

    That’s the problem with this organization. There’s no “well, maybe the next guy will be better,” because the next guy is chosen by the same moron who chose the current guy. It is to the point where the head moron is so stupid that he starts vetoing deals just because he figures “holy shit, I really am a moron, so anything I am planning to do must be a bad idea.” It’s like the freakin’ Seinfeld episode with George doing the opposite of everything he normally does.

  50. DRed

    It’s the little things. Knicks on the foul line with like 20 seconds left in the third. Do we give Melo a breather? Of course not.

  51. Robtachi

    Wait, wait, wait, how is it Melo’s fault that in his 40th minute on the floor when he’s clearly gassed from carrying the Knicks’ offense all night Woodson’s only “play” is to force-feed him and have everyone else stand around picking lint out of their navels?

  52. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, nothing in this game or this season has been Melo’s fault (unless you want to still kill him for messing with the Knicks’ leverage years ago – but that was years ago). He’s been great this year in a terrible situation.

  53. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Forcing the ball into Melo that long stretch killed the Knicks. They still had opportunities when they started moving the ball and working the pnr but consistently missed an open stat on several possessions. Despite all that I think none of that happens if Udrih didn’t start the 4th qtr. I still put 65% on Melo.

    Obviously, Melo can’t be totally absolved from some blame, but those were the plays being called. He can’t force it to himself; he was being bodied up pretty good down the stretch and the team refused to identify this and run alternate plays. 65% blame is way too high – more like 20-30%

  54. JR Sec 112

    New coach, take all of JR’s minutes and split them with Shumpert and MWP, and team is .500 at least. Its really that simple.

    I actually feel bad for Melo. He doesnt deserve to play 42 min a game for this crap. They’d be better off if he organized a coup.

  55. nicos

    Not to harp on this but Amare was being guarded by Faverani- if the Knicks really wanted to go ISO, wouldn’t that be the match-up you’d try to exploit? Or at least try it once or twice? Now KMart will probably be out a few weeks- too frustrating.

  56. Robtachi

    JR played 4 minutes less tonight than Shumpert and Hardaway combined, because, again I mean JR just was playing so well and that’s really a big part of what we do with our ball club.

  57. BigBlueAL

    Yeah, Woody all of a sudden has a real quick hook for Hardaway and we know he has no patience with Shump (although to be fair he has been just as awful as JR lately). But JR for some reason is the golden boy who cant be touched.

  58. yellowboy90

    I put the lion share of blame because this suppose to be his team and he didn’t have to consistently go into the post on those several possessions. He could have called for STAT to post up and should have. HE needs to step up and change things in the 4th himself if the coaches are not. Now they did go away from that with about 5 minutes left but missed shots and missed STAT. It’s a tough Burden but it’s his burden to bare. That’s just my opinion.

  59. JR Sec 112

    None of this is on Melo. Its ridiculous to put any of this on him.

    Wally should be fired. Celts for real? Cmon.

  60. BigBlueAL

    I really hope the MSG crowd tomorrow night is as ruthless as they were in the final days of Isiah’s coaching career. Maybe they make it so rough for Woodson he quits after the game lol.

  61. Robtachi

    I put the lion share of blame because this suppose to be his team and he didn’t have to consistently go into the post on those several possessions. He could have called for STAT to post up and should have. HE needs to step up and change things in the 4th himself if the coaches are not. Now they did go away from that with about 5 minutes left but missed shots and missed STAT. It’s a tough Burden but it’s his burden to bare. That’s just my opinion.

    No offense but I think that’s an opinion assembled from primarily intangible basketball platitudes and not analytic game observation. I’m no Melo apologist, but he has absolutely played his ass off all season and this team is 6-16. It’s not his “burden”, much the same as no one “burdened” Kevin Durant for OKC’s swoon in the playoffs last year after Westbrook got hurt and their whole dynamic changed.

  62. nicos

    In Woodson’s defense, when your guards combine to shoot 3-20 it’s tough to win. I can almost understand sticking with JR- THJ was horrific on defense tonight and Shump was throwing up air balls. It’s kind of amazing that going into the season you had to figure the two was the Knicks deepest position and now it’s just a complete mess.

  63. JR Sec 112

    If you watched the actual game, instead of looking at the box score, Shump was MUCH better than JR, at least defensively and he was working in the flow of the offense. Hence he was +2, JR -13. Shump played the entire 3rd quarter, which was one of the Knicks best quarters this year.

    So yeah, sticking with JR is inexcusable. And its on Woodson.

  64. DRed

    Once KMart went down, Stat was our only high efficiency option. So of course we never went to him. We are so fucking stupid as a collective.

  65. yellowboy90

    Besides the 4th when JR started to fumble the ball away I thought he played decently. He definitely wasn’t trying to force the action and looked for others. Maybe it has come to just playing slightly below average is okay for the Knicks 2 guards.

    Also, I like Prigs but he can’t keep passing up open shot after open shot and if he could have just hit that 3 near the end. He just can’t play so many minutes. The knicks just need someone who can actually penetrate to take some pressure off the team in the 4th and have Prigs at the 2. I know this won’t happen because JR will be in the game but you know what I mean.

  66. Zanzibar

    @yellowboy90 +1. Melo’s playing hard but not smart. Woody’s an ISO coach who not only indulges but supports Melo’s ISO tendencies. But Melo could go to Woody in the 4th quarter and say let’s spread the floor and Amare and I will execute PnRs. If Melo wanted Woody fired, he’d be gone. Melo is not some helpless bystander in all of this. LBJ’s adapted his game in the last few years while Melo is the same player he was a decade ago.

  67. coyle022

    You know what you do? Put Melo at the 2. Put MWP at the 2. Put Murry at the 2. Hell put Melo at the 1, MWP/Prigioni at the 2, Bargs at the 3, Amare at the 4, and Martin/Aldrich at the 5. But no Woodson , in his own words, “I can’t play everybody.”

  68. d-mar

    The saddest part of this loss was that the Celtics were ready to be put down like a lame racehorse in the 4th quarter. If the Knicks had executed just a few plays on offense it would have been over, but we traded empty possessions long enough for Boston to hit a few and realize the Knicks were ready to hand the game back to them.

    Also, I don’t know what’s happened to Shumpert, but we shouldn’t be that surprised that Ujiri wouldn’t take him in the Lowry deal the way he’s played this season.

  69. knickster

    Melo, not Woody, is responsible for the all-iso crap at the end of every close game. Melo could EASILY demand (yes, demand) that Woodson get other people involved.

    If I remember well, Melo got dantoni fired for having a system he did not like. Maybe Woody remembers it, too. The company man.

  70. yellowboy90

    @ Zani maybe he did do that because they did start to run different sets but Melo missed a bunny off of the PnR with Stat. Then I think they went to the double Horns with Amar’e and Bargs ran a few PnRs but missed Stat and the jumpers from Bargs, Prigs, and JR. Then I think at 1 minute mark it was a terrible Iso against Jeff Green by Melo. Anyway I just think as a leader he has to recognize STAT had it going again tonight and get him the ball. Usually, Melo looks out for STAT and actually direct the offense through him but he didn’t early in the 4th.

    I don’t think tonight was a case of Melo being selfish at all. I just want him to show better leadership and awareness. I get he was tired because he was getting beat up coming off of those screens but he has to come up big right now for the Knicks to win. Maybe its not fair to ask someone to be perfect in all aspects of ball but that’s what it comes down to with no help from the bench and the 2 guards.

  71. nicos

    Of Prigioni’s 8 assists only one of them was on a shot closer than 16 feet. He’s great at moving the ball around the perimeter but he can’t the ball inside well at all. That Lowry deal is looking better and better.

  72. yellowboy90

    Also, stop playing Udrih. Just stop it. He is no good. Can someone teach Bargs how to come to a jump stop on his dives to the rim. A nice little jump stop then head fake would get him a FT because that big is chasing to hard on his back but instead he just throws it up there. Maybe its to much to ask that from a 7 footer.

  73. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Melo, not Woody, is responsible for the all-iso crap at the end of every close game. Melo could EASILY demand (yes, demand) that Woodson get other people involved.

    If I remember well, Melo got dantoni fired for having a system he did not like. Maybe Woody remembers it, too. The company man.

    This is just irresponsible. Coach calls plays, point guard runs the offense. Woodson has been quoted as believing that going to Melo in the 4th is the team’s best play. And although people here are calling for Woodson’s head, it’s not wise for a player to break the offense to get the coach fired AGAIN.

    To me, only Jordan (or Magic, Bird, maybe even LBJ) had the chops to dictate to the coach how to run his offense and even who to sub when. Melo’s mad nice, but he ain’t MJ.

  74. knickster

    @124

    funny thing is Melo would actually save Woody’s job if he played good basketball, like Paul George….

  75. JR Sec 112

    Yeah, the reason is because he (Prigs) isnt really a threat to score at the rim. But he could play the JKidd role from last year very well.

    We should do the deal with TH2 ASAP, if they will take it. MWP, Felton, and TH2 pupu platter for Lowry and his bird rights would easily be the best trade the Knicks have made in a while.

    Again, Lowry, Prigs, Chandler, Melo, Stat/Bargs with Lawrence Frank (or PJ or some semi-hard ass) would be 3rd best team in the East (I know, not saying much).

  76. hoolahoop

    Woody has a man crush on JR, but Melo is his real true love. Melo loves being the hero, and Woody is a one trick pony.
    Overall, the knicks played a good game. Woody lost this one.

    What is so hard to understand about BALL MOVEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  77. JR Sec 112

    How good would the Knicks be if we just swapped Melo and Paul George? 8-14 instead of 6-16?

    I guess you guys just think that if Melo needs to be LBJ and Popovich combined, otherwise its his fault.

  78. JR Sec 112

    Better, what would Knicks record be if we swapped George Hill and Stevenson for Felton and Shumpert? 13-9? Better?

    At this point, it mindboggling that its not obvious to everyone the problem with this team is the guard play.

  79. knickster

    What would the Knicks’ record be if melo scored efficiently, tried hard on defense, embraced the team concept and generally played like the superstar he thinks he is?

  80. Kikuchiyo

    Well, when Pierce drained that three at the end, you just had to tip your hat to a great veteran leader getting the best of the Knicks.

    He’s not on the team anymore? Oh.

  81. DRed

    If Melo was a top 5 superstar we’d have 9 or 10 wins max. The combination of lack of talent and bad coaching is a lot to overcome.

  82. KJG

    Different perspective tonight but I was at a holiday party. Watched an intermittent gamecast. I saw the NYK come back and saw amare as a very efficient scorer, but for the longest time had zero bounds. I saw an efficient melo until sometime in the 4th. I was so pumped to finally see STAT get a few late boards. But what was most appalling and EXPECTED, sadly enough, was the repetitive ” Carmelo Anthony misses ## ft. Jump shot “. The last however many minutes were all too familiar. I knew they were going Iso and I knew it was completely failing. And it hurt… It hurt so much. I understand he kept us alive tonight for awhile. I’m at a loss once again. The bullshit we run in the 4th when it’s tight is garbage. Chicago almost made us pay and tonight the Celtics did. Our team plays a one man game because that’s how they’re coached … And that’s how HE plays down the stretch, regardless of what he says. And I friggen hate both options.

  83. KJG

    Hoopshype made it look like 5 articles. Seems like one bleacher report and it’s just what if scenario. Don’t think there’s and merit to such a scenario. Not yet at least

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