Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, March 25, 2019

Game Thread: Indiana Pacers at New York Knicks

Game Thread: Indiana Pacers at New York Knicks

Start Time: 01/11/2019 19:30:00

Pacers search for defense as trip ends at Knicks

The Indiana Pacers are feeling the absence of center Myles Turner in the low post as opponents have been constantly getting to the rim in the past three games.
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Pre Game Links:

  • [foxsports.com] Pacers hopeful to get Turner (and his much-needed defense) back against Knicks
  • [indycornrows.com] Pacers Links: Pacers will finish road trip against Knicks without Myles Turner
  • [cbssports.com] Knicks’ Frank Ntilikina: Out as expected
  • [sportsbookreview.com] I Can See For Myles: Take ‘Over’ For Pacers-Knicks
  • [nydailynews.com] Knicks’ Enes Kanter missed practice because he ate too many cheeseburgers and got sick
  • [indystar.com] Victory vs. Knicks will send Pacers home with winning record from difficult road swing
  • [espn.com] The rebuilding Knicks and their bargain bin of former lottery picks
  • [bleacherreport.com] Kyrie Irving, Jayson Tatum Help Celtics to Blowout over Victor Oladipo, Pacers
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    34 comments on “Game Thread: Indiana Pacers at New York Knicks

    1. Grocer

      you’re really gonna walk into the world’s fair of commercial tank installations and claim plumbing bigotry

      Do you deny the vitriol aimed at snakeoil salesmen? It’s as if they hate preserving their tools.

    2. geo

      Tinkham, one of those investors, recalled that the nickname was a combination of the state’s rich history with the harness racing pacers and the pace car used for the running of the Indianapolis 500.

    3. geo

      After Irving’s History, by 1831 “Knickerbocker” had become a local byword for an imagined old Dutch-descended New York aristocracy, their old-fashioned ways, their long-stemmed pipes, and knee-breeches long after the fashion had turned to slacks. (Such cultural heritage sprang almost entirely from Irving’s imagination and became a well-known example of an invented tradition.) “Knickerbocker” became a byword for a New York patrician,

      fear us in our mighty hosiery…

    4. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      You know exactly who the free agents were during this time. You know what contracts they signed. You know what trades were made. You know what picks were made. So on, so forth.
      Which one of them should the Knicks have made instead of tanking? List a single one!

      Sorry, to bring this post into this thread, but I was too busy retiring from my job to read the rest of that thread the other day and some people have a reading comprehension problem.

      Again, asking me what deal I would have done at the time is the kind of nonsense I expect to hear on talk radio. It’s impossible to know who was interested in any of our players and what was offered if anything. If you throw out an actual deal that was on the table (not rumored or put out by some agent), I’d be glad to tell what I would have done.

      Again, discussing free agents is equally difficult. It doesn’t matter who was available and how much space we had, if your team sucks no one will come. That’s the exact the position we’ve been in numerous times. Typically we’ve filled it with bad value deals instead of rolling it over.

      We did it again with Baker and Hardaway and we risk doing it again this year because tanking and cap space are incompatible when you are this bad. It makes it WAY harder to attract players.

      And before you go there, yes, renting out cap space can be better than rolling it over, but it depends what kind of pick is offered, how bad/long the contract is, and where you are in the team rebuild. It’s not automatically superior. You have to know what was on the table for the Knicks.

    5. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      ‘Pacers’ has to be one of the worst NBA names.

      I don’t have any idea of the metaphor they’re trying to evoke, so I’m on the fence about it. The Wizards have, by far, the worst name in the NBA. The Nets are also a bad one — it’d be like a baseball team calling themselves the Bases or Foul Poles, or a football team calling themselves the Hash Marks or Uprights.

      I think the Raptors is a shit name…

      Over 2,000 entries were narrowed down to eleven prospects: Beavers, Bobcats, Dragons, Grizzlies, Hogs, Raptors, Scorpions, T-Rex, Tarantulas, Terriers and Towers (the eventual runner-up).

      …yet somehow the best of the options, aside from Grizzlies. “Scorpions” is a shitty 80s band and also far too much a fugazi “hard” name,” same with Dragons (which should only be a word used in fantasy novels for geeks and sex acts for perverts) and Tarantulas. Hogs would have been more appropriate for a nickname for San Antonio fans. Also, how the fuck was “Towers” the runner-up? Because the downtown area has big, tall objects that can’t move? I guess that would have presaged Jonas Valanciunas pretty well. I would have preferred the Toronto Hosers or Toronto Bag of Milks or Toronto Double Doubles.

      I don’t want to think about this anymore. Also I tend to dislike the non-countable noun route, e.g. Thunder or Heat, mostly for aesthetics but also because there is no way to know whether to consider it a singular or plural in sentence construction.

    6. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      He said Porzingis is starting to get strength back & is continuing to shoot pull up threes & dunk in workouts. Knicks assistant Kaleb Canales has been working with Porzingis.

    7. ptmilo

      the Toronto bag of milks would be fucking sublime. think all the politely restrained rage when national tv announcers kept calling them the Toronto bags of milk instead.

    8. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Dolan seems more active around the Knicks lately.

      Can you spell K E M B A?

    9. ptmilo

      great block by trier, man he really has to get his motor up on defense because he can do some stuff

    10. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      @13

      Do you have any good data on Trier’s defense?

      I keep trying to focus on him defensively but I still have no opinion. Maybe that means he’s about average give or take. I don’t see many terrific or horrible possessions.

    11. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Sam Amico
      ?@AmicoHoops
      #Pelicans willing to move first-round pick in quest to find help for Anthony Davis. #NBA

    12. ptmilo

      Do you have any good data on Trier’s defense?

      his defense usually looks like someone found a way to inject a severe hangover into brownian motion. Unless he is scoping out a chase down block in which case he’s 25 year old Lebron. take that for data.

    13. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Trier plays great defense for a 6th man spark plug type player. He’s like a two way Lou Williams, which is kinda what you’d expect from the 6’5” Lou Williams.

      @16 we HAVE to convince them Tim Hardaway Jr is the answer to their problems.

    14. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Can we trade for McBuckets and O’Quinn? #nevermind

    15. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Mud is definitely back to bozo ball. He’s due for a string of DNPs when Frank gets back, and I think that Frank will eventually supplant him as the starter around the ASB.

    16. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      You can’t just give Dotson the ball and expect him to get a basket. That why he disappears at times. But there’s enough all around skill there for him to be a plus player in the right circumstances. He needs a team where the players and ball are always moving and teamwork creates good shots. When he gets a really good look, he’s pretty solid and he does board and defend.

    17. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Whatever Mudiay is doing out there it’s worse than a reversion to the mean.

      Robinson, Vonleh, Dotson, Trier and Frank. They won’t score, but I still want to see it.

    18. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Serious question.

      Would Jarrett Jack be the best PG on this team?

      lmao

    19. ptmilo

      I think doncic might be exactly the same age the day of the only teenager to ever get a triple double so you know he’s gonna do it

    20. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Who is better, Sabonis or Myles Turner?

      The Pacers should consider making a move. Both are too good to only be playing a little over 25 minutes and I don’t think they are ideal together. The could probably get a very good piece that’s more of a compliment to the others if they moved one of them.

    21. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Maybe the Knicks problems on defense are more than just Kanter? :-)

      #Robinson #Frank

    22. Clyde's suit

      I have held out hope that Mudiay is redeemable but boy, he is such an awful defender that even when he is decent on offense, he gives it all back by being so awful on the other end.
      Watching an average pg like Collinson makes me realize how much better this team would be with even a modest upgrade at the pg position. Our weakness at that position is detrimental to the growth of our young players. The Knicks MUST address this issue as it has become ABUNDANTLY clear that that player is not currently on the roster.

    23. thenoblefacehumper

      Again, asking me what deal I would have done at the time is the kind of nonsense I expect to hear on talk radio. It’s impossible to know who was interested in any of our players and what was offered if anything. If you throw out an actual deal that was on the table (not rumored or put out by some agent), I’d be glad to tell what I would have done.

      Again, discussing free agents is equally difficult. It doesn’t matter who was available and how much space we had, if your team sucks no one will come. That’s the exact the position we’ve been in numerous times. Typically we’ve filled it with bad value deals instead of rolling it over.

      I specifically said that for this thought exercise you can feel free to assume that any free agent outside of the top-15 or so players would’ve come to the Knicks if the money was equal. I’m really making this as easy as possible for you.

      I’m going to assume the reason you refuse to answer is because when you look at the list of these transactions it becomes glaringly obvious that, almost without exception, they all would’ve constituted bad moves for the Knicks. The reason I think you advocate for them is because the “sign unexceptional free agents and hope for the best” approach is similar to that of a certain Knicks GM who was laughed out of town.

      You are correct to be skeptical of the new regime, but your reasons for doubting them are backwards. To the extent that they’ve failed, it’s because their moves have been insufficiently made with an eye towards the future. THJ’s deal, not trading KOQ, trading a pick for Mudiay’s expiring contract, not getting the Kanter/Willy situation settled earlier, and not getting player options on Vonleh/Hezonja are some examples of poor execution because they mirrored Phil’s approach.

      The current front office has had its most success when it has leaned toward the approach you hate.

    24. Early Bird

      Robinson, Vonleh, Dotson, Trier and Frank. They won’t score, but I still want to see it.

      We don’t score now, so ¯_(?)_/¯

    25. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      @29

      I pretty much disagree with every word.

      For better or worse, it’s obvious what Phil was doing.

      Phil inherited a team of misfits, malcontents, and dimwits that was barren of 1st round picks. He decided to get rid of those players and go from there. The goal was always to build simultaneously through free agents and picks. He said a much constantly.

      Then he learned lesson #1. Top free agents do not come to bad teams no matter what city you are in, how many rings you have, and especially if they see you as an old out of touch white dude.

      Then he learned lesson #2. Melo is a self centered low IQ pinhead. He was arrogant and wrong to think he could succeed in changing him when 2 coaches of the year had failed.

      Despite that and the Noah debacle, he was at least slowly accumulating some decent two way players, had 20m of cap space, and all his picks going forward when he was fired.

      The current management is nothing like him.

      They inherited 20m of cap space, a few decent young players, and all their 1st round picks with the stated goal of getting better. But they are so terrible at evaluating talent, they let a few of the decent role players go (or traded them), brought in worse one way players, and clobbered the 20m of cap space with a player that Phil tossed. So it’s two years and 20+ million dollars later and we are a worse team.

      ZION cheering aside, we are here because they have been terrible at evaluating talent and valuing players so far. The one exception being Vonleh. We were like 12-13 deep in offensive players and had no real PF. Ray Charles could have seen that one.

      This may come off as a defense of Phil because everyone here hates him. It’s not. Phil made a few big mistakes, but he knows the game. These guys are clueless.

    26. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      And if you want to know 1-2 players I would have considered signing if I had my choice (excluding fantasies like Durant or Curry etc..) instead of Hardaway Jr it would have been players like Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Nikola Mirotic. At that time they both looked like players that would bring something to the table and they were also young enough to get better.

    27. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      A dead man can get worse and worse every year, keep drafting in the lottery, and eventually get lucky at it. Even the Cavs did that. So will the dead men managing our team. That does not mean what they are doing is right or the best path.

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