Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Sunday, December 21, 2014

Game Recap: Knicks 111, Bucks 107

New York Knicks 111 Final
Recap | Box Score
107 Milwaukee Bucks
Carmelo Anthony, SF 41 MIN | 13-26 FG | 4-5 FT | 10 REB | 2 AST | 32 PTS | +10

Do any of you realize how hard it is to score when you are facing a quadruple team with two of the four defenders wearing black pants and grey shirts? Well being that I’ve never been good enough to play a basketball game that involved an official, I can’t tell you. But to me it seemed that Carmelo Anthony was getting pushed, held, and grabbed on nearly every offensive possession. What did Anthony get for this? 5 free throws. He even got a ridiculous tech for slamming the ball in clear frustration and pain from yet another hit. In spite of the refs Anthony scored efficiently from everywhere and pulled down 10 boards. He played the power forward position very much like Amare did before the Melo trade. Well except that Anthony only had 3 turnovers.

Landry Fields, G 31 MIN | 5-7 FG | 1-2 FT | 5 REB | 6 AST | 11 PTS | +14

Interestingly enough the ESPN shot chart can’t tell the difference between Fields and Shumpert. It gave me the same shot chart for each player. I only looked because in my game notes I did not write “brick” “WTH?”, or “Woodson time to make a change” as I did in the Chicago game. The stats back up my lack of anger (confirmed with a quick rewind of the DVR). I’d still like Landry to have any kind of game outside the paint, but who can really complain with this boxscore? Add 2 steals, 1 turnover, and a +14 to the numbers you see above and you get a very well rounded player. This is exactly the sort of player we need as a reserve. Now if we only had a backcourt good enough to make Fields a reserve. Oh well

Tyson Chandler, C 39 MIN | 6-6 FG | 7-7 FT | 11 REB | 1 AST | 19 PTS | +12

Though the boxscore does not at all reflected this, Chandler looked totally gassed. I find that very strange because according to the Terminator Wiki Chandler’s Iridium nuclear-energy cell has a functional period of 120 years.

Baron Davis, PG 19 MIN | 2-4 FG | 1-2 FT | 1 REB | 3 AST | 5 PTS | +15

19 minutes. Really? That’s it? Okay how would you feel if I only gave you 39% of this reca…

Iman Shumpert, G 42 MIN | 6-15 FG | 4-5 FT | 6 REB | 5 AST | 16 PTS | +4

Much like Anthony, Shumpert had to deal with a ton of contact without a much love from the refs. Like Anthony, Shumpert only got 5 free throws. Games like this you forget Shumpert is a rookie. He played defense as well as Chandler, was as multi-dimensional as Fields, and as fearless as Anthony. In the biggest game of the year he gave just about everything you could ask of him. I still don’t care for the ritual, but I can’t argue with the results. “Fire Dolan! SHUMP SHUMP.”

Mike Bibby, PG 9 MIN | 0-0 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 3 AST | 0 PTS | -15

The Egyptian Hieroglyphic symbol for “near failure” looks like a bird, a broken tool, and a scarab but the drop down of this fine recap tools only allows for English so a D it is.

The curse of the mummy was in full effect this evening. After a blistering first 8 minutes for the Knicks resulting in a 30-18 advantage Pharaoh Bibby II was summoned. Bibby picked up two nice dimes early while the Bucks slogged through a comatose first quarter, but by the second quarter Monta Ellis figured out that it is really easy to blow past the undead. Bibby returned to the sarcophagus with 5:26 left in the 2nd.

Jared Jeffries, PF 9 MIN | 1-3 FG | 2-2 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 4 PTS | -8

I had a great recap written in notepad for Jeffries. However, every time I tried to cut and paste it into this recap, I just kept missing the mark. I don’t get it. Cut and paste should be as easy as making a layup when you are 6’10. Why do I keep missing?

Steve Novak, SF 22 MIN | 3-6 FG | 2-2 FT | 4 REB | 1 AST | 10 PTS | 0

Nice to have Novak back. You did your thing, but I have to give you a B- minus because you took a 2 point field goal. Let this be a warning to you.

J.R. Smith, SG 27 MIN | 5-13 FG | 2-2 FT | 3 REB | 1 AST | 14 PTS | -12

“…Einstein’s theory of relativity. Grab hold of a hot pan, second can seem like an hour. Put your hands on a hot woman, an hour can seem like a second…”
– Preacher; “Deep Blue Sea”

My game notes actually read “Hot shooting tonight” next to JR’s name. How is a 5-13 night hot shooting? Because it isn’t 6-22.

Four Things We Saw

  1. The Knicks showed they can clamp down and weather a storm. For the second time in three games we watched this team hold it together and come from behind to win a game. No, an 8 point hole with 8:52 to play is by no means insurmountable but when you think about the way this team executed over the last decade, you have to be impressed with the fortitude of this team. The Knicks had to have this game and they played like it.
  2. The Knicks really need help at the point. It is pretty clear Baron Davis should not play more than 20-25 minutes a night. Bibby shouldn’t play more than 2-5. That leaves a huge hole at the point. Neither Davis or Bibby can attack the defense with the same speed than Lin can. I’m not sure how Woodson plans to address this over the remainder of the season but whatever that is, it needs to be worked out soon.
  3. If the Bucks can’t convince more than 5, 000 people to come to the biggest home game of the season, I’m not sure they deserve a playoff team. Yikes those empty seats were surprising.
  4. Brian mentioned in his game preview that the Bucks don’t play great defense. They did not disappoint allowing the Knicks to shoot 51.3% from the floor. Thankfully the Knicks were able to capitalize on this while *ahem* holding the Bucks to 49.4% shooting.

88 comments on “Game Recap: Knicks 111, Bucks 107

  1. Thomas B. Post author

    Z-man:
    Looks like the wrong game stats glitch has struck again!

    Son of a gun. They came up correctly in the generator. Something happened when it converted to html. I’ll work on that. In the meantime, focus on my wonderful observations and heap praise upon me for my hard work.

  2. BigBlueAL

    I mentioned in the game thread with around 8 mins left in the game the Bucks were shooting close to 60% (a bit over 58%) but they finished shooting a tad below 50%. Knicks finally played some D late in the game when it counted.

  3. Thomas B. Post author

    Sorry about the stat problems folks. I’ve reloaded it several times with no luck at getting tonight’s stats to load.

    jon abbey:
    8 points for JR Smith in the final 3:15.

    That may be why I had “hot shooting” noted next to him. He did play very well down the stretch. Worthy of a bump if I can fix it.

  4. rururuland7

    Thomas B.: Son of a gun. They came up correctly in the generator. Something happened when it converted to html.I’ll work on that. In the meantime, focus on my wonderful observations and heap praise upon me for my hard work.

    I enjoyed the recap. Astute basketball observations

  5. Z

    I just watched it. Phew!

    Good recap, TB. Refs definitely let them play. (At the end of that gutwrenching sequence where the Bucks shot 3 3pters at the end Novak finally just pushed everybody out of the lane to get the rebound).

    And, yeah, what’s up with the crowd? The game didn’t feel as big as it was because all you could see was empty seats…

    And the 6 people in the crowd that weren’t related to Steve Novak actually got JR Smith to fall for the cheesy 5,4,3,2,1 ploy! (or, maybe Smith was putting up the sot regardless… It’s kinda hard to tell with Smith :)

    Big win.

  6. Robtachi

    JK47:
    Tyson Chandler had a 1.046 TS% in this game.

    And as if to directly spite me and what I said yesterday, he actually scored a couple of buckets on post-ups where he waved Melo/Shump away and created his own shot.

    Do not suggest the Terminator cannot do something.

  7. Brian Cronin

    Anyone know why Adelman doesn’t play Anthony Randolph?

    Will the T-Wolves even give Randolph his qualifying offer of $4 million? I mean, they don’t even play the guy.

  8. Robtachi

    By the way, anybody who’s wondering if they can ever remember the Garden rocking the way it did on Easter Sunday – tune in to the Rangers first playoff game later tonight.

  9. Robtachi

    Brian Cronin:
    Anyone know why Adelman doesn’t play Anthony Randolph?

    Will the T-Wolves even give Randolph his qualifying offer of $4 million? I mean, they don’t even play the guy.

    Some dudes named Kevin Love and Derrick Williams. Yeah, I’ve never heard of ‘em either.

  10. Brian Cronin

    But Randolph can play with Love. Their games are not similar. Adelman plays Tolliver over him. Randolph only plays when Love is hurt and then he plays really well. Isn’t that an odd usage of a player? If he is only going to play when Love is hurt, why not trade him?

  11. Thomas B. Post author

    Z:
    And the 6 people in the crowd that weren’t related to Steve Novak actually got JR Smith to fall for the cheesy 5,4,3,2,1 ploy! (or, maybe Smith was putting up the sot regardless… It’s kinda hard to tell with Smith :)

    Big win.

    Yeah what was up with that? I checked and I think there were 10 seconds left on the clock when they started the countdown. JR ended up putting up a bad shot with 6 seconds left on the clock. Now, he most likely would have put up a bad shot with 2 seconds left had they not counted but it was still funny to see that outside of a high school game. Well, high school games often have larger crowds.

  12. steveoh

    For the record, I was so wrong about Iman Shumpert when we drafted him. And now, I couldn’t be any happier that he’s a Knick.

    Right now, he’s our third most important player. Who’da thunk that?

  13. Robtachi

    steveoh:
    For the record, I was so wrong about Iman Shumpert when we drafted him. And now, I couldn’t be any happier that he’s a Knick.

    Right now, he’s our third most important player. Who’da thunk that?

    Meanwhile Kenny Faried put up 16/12 and 2 blocks, and somewhere, THCJ is having an aneurysm.

    What’s going on with the Blazers? They’re up to 28-31. I thought they were in full tank mode?

  14. Brian Cronin

    It is ridiculous how far Faried fell in the draft. Same with Leonard. Brandon Knight and Jimmer freakin’ Freddette was drafted ahead of them!

    Shump has been amazing, but he was less obvious of a pick as Leonard and Faried. So I can’t kill the other teams for passing on him as much.

  15. rururuland7

    Robtachi: Meanwhile Kenny Faried put up 16/12 and 2 blocks, and somewhere, THCJ is having an aneurysm.

    What’s going on with the Blazers? They’re up to 28-31. I thought they were in full tank mode?

    Love was out of the game in the first quarter and destroyed him last time. Pretty empty numbers the last two nights IMO. Let’s see what he does in the critical games against decent teams with healthy bigs.

  16. Z

    Brian Cronin:
    Another Knick (Melo?) fell for it last game in Milwaukee. I guess it is pretty convincing.

    I just thought it was funny that Smith, who can never seem to wait to get a shot off, decided the clock must be wrong and the crowd must be right. He’s like a crack addict who can justify anything to get his fix :)

  17. Robert Silverman

    Thomas B.: Son of a gun. They came up correctly in the generator. Something happened when it converted to html.I’ll work on that. In the meantime, focus on my wonderful observations and heap praise upon me for my hard work.

    Fixed. Good work, Thomas. Hey, I busted a hump last night to submit a (very late) recap and all I got was Jon Abbey kvetching about Chandler’s grade being too high, so I feel your pain. Good job

  18. nicos

    Brian Cronin:
    It is ridiculous how far Faried fell in the draft. Same with Leonard. Brandon Knight and Jimmer freakin’ Freddette was drafted ahead of them!

    Shump has been amazing, but he was less obvious of a pick as Leonard and Faried. So I can’t kill the other teams for passing on him as much.

    What’s amazing- considering how poor this draft was- is that Shump was considered a bit of a reach at 17. And Faried went pretty much where he was expected to go by the pundits- maybe a dropped a pick or two but not much. And say what you will about Faried- the fact that Woodson found a couple of minutes to rest both Melo and Chandler in the second half but had to go with Shumpert the whole way speaks volumes about how much he means to the team right now.

  19. Brian Cronin

    In their eight minutes of time together on the court, Faried was 3-3 for 6 points with 3 boards while Love was 0-5 for 0 points with 3 boards. So it wasn’t like Love was eating him up when they were playing against each other.

  20. Brian Cronin

    What’s amazing- considering how poor this draft was- is that Shump was considered a bit of a reach at 17. And Faried went pretty much where he was expected to go by the pundits- maybe a dropped a pick or two but not much. And say what you will about Faried- the fact that Woodson found a couple of minutes to rest both Melo and Chandler in the second half but had to go with Shumpert the whole way speaks volumes about how much he means to the team right now.

    Definitely. As others have mentioned, Shump is the third most valuable player on the team right now. What a great pick. I think the Jan Vesely pick is the one that will be the most head-scratching one in the future.

  21. Brian Cronin

    Jimmy Butler, by the way, is also a great story. Contributing to the Bulls as a rookie. I didn’t expect this much from him. When you throw in his background, it is a great, great story.

  22. Brian Cronin

    Ugh, Watching the replay…man, Mike Breen….dude just has this air about him. Take JR Smith, for instance. I give JR plenty of grief at times for his his poor decision-making, but at the end of the day, I like JR Smith. He is definitely worth the grief he causes. I also know that JR Smith is far, far far from a “punk” or whatever, and yet when Breen talks about him, it is like JR is some lowlife. It is disappointing.

  23. jon abbey

    Robert Silverman: Hey, I busted a hump last night to submit a (very late) recap and all I got was Jon Abbey kvetching about Chandler’s grade being too high, so I feel your pain.

    well, it helped him to wake up offensively today, so all for the best.

    and honestly, I seem to be in the minority, but I don’t really like any of these recaps very much. they’re very high on (attempted) humor and very low on analysis or even understanding of what just happened, they’re often flat out wrong on individual assessments.

    and as long as I’m going down this road, I actually don’t think almost any of the ‘articles’ on this site or the associated NY Times snippets are especially insightful, an ideal Knicks blog would combine the Posting and Toasting articles (which are great, very impressed with Seth Rosenthal, who also writes for NY Magazine now) and our comment threads (in which the various authors often have quite a bit of insight to add, some of the best posters here, just not the actual articles).

    my cranky two cents…

  24. massive

    So who takes the fall for Monta Ellis lighting us up, if not Shumpert? My eyes must have been playing tricks on me, because I saw Ellis scoring at will against him. I know Ellis was his assignment, too. I thought this was one of Shumpert’s poorer defensive games.

  25. jon abbey

    man, this was a great win, I still don’t know how we pulled it out. a desperate team at home, getting lots of help from the officials, their three perimeter guys all hitting crazy shots, and our core coming off a ton of minutes the night before in Chicago and a very thin bench behind them. I think I’m just starting to fully recover now, four hours later.

  26. Brian Cronin

    So who takes the fall for Monta Ellis lighting us up, if not Shumpert? My eyes must have been playing tricks on me, because I saw Ellis scoring at will against him. I know Ellis was his assignment, too. I thought this was one of Shumpert’s poorer defensive games.

    He was likely quite tired, but yeah, definitely not one of his better defensive efforts.

  27. jon abbey

    massive:
    So who takes the fall for Monta Ellis lighting us up, if not Shumpert? My eyes must have been playing tricks on me, because I saw Ellis scoring at will against him. I know Ellis was his assignment, too. I thought this was one of Shumpert’s poorer defensive games.

    I agree with that, although they were setting a ton of screens for him at the top of the circle, so I’m not sure who that’s on exactly then.

    Skiles definitely had a good plan to get his perimeter guys going, though. Woodson will have to come up with a better countermeasure in the future, although it didn’t help that he had a pretty tired team tonight.

  28. massive

    Glad to know I’m not going crazy. The recap here gave him a pass, so I thought I missed something.

  29. nicos

    massive:
    So who takes the fall for Monta Ellis lighting us up, if not Shumpert? My eyes must have been playing tricks on me, because I saw Ellis scoring at will against him. I know Ellis was his assignment, too. I thought this was one of Shumpert’s poorer defensive games.

    I’d agree but he really did buckle down and play pretty good defense the last 8-10 minutes- two of his three steals were in the fourth. And Ellis only had two buckets in the 4th and one was that three off of an offensive rebound which is tough to put on Shumpert. Jennings only had one bucket in the 4th as well so the Knicks perimeter D in general definitely tightened up late.

  30. Brian Cronin

    As Al mentioned, the Bucks’ shooting dropped dramatically in the final eight minutes of the game. It’s like the team got a third wind on D all at once.

  31. massive

    You know, I’m starting to think we’re getting Spurs-like luck with draft picks and under the radar free agents. Lin, Shump, Fields, Novak, Harrellson…well, it’s no Parker, Ginobili, Leonard, Bowen, and Blair, but still. It’s nice to see that our front office was able to put the questions of whether or not the Knicks could put talent around our “overpaid” superstars to rest.

  32. jon abbey

    so who gets credit for rendering Ilyasova invisible, Melo?

    in his last 10 games against other teams, he’s averaging 17.3 points, in double figures in all 10 games. in his two games against NY over that same period, he scored a total of 5 points with 3 rebounds.

  33. Brian Cronin

    so who gets credit for rendering Ilyasova invisible, Melo?

    Honestly, I think Ellis and Jennings would get the “credit.” When they play the Knicks, they each seem like they want to shoot every single possession. They took 45 shots combined! Ilyasova took 3. In the first half it made sense, but when they started bricking shots in the second half, they really should have gotten him more involved.

  34. austinanthony51

    If bibby gets more playing time he wud pick up at least 10 dimes a game. He makes the right play everytime. Baron had damn near 10 turnovers. I kno bibby is a liability on defense but @ least he doesn’t turn the ball over and take stupid shots.

  35. daJudge

    Nice recap Thomas B. Unlike Jon, I enjoy reading the recaps getting ready for work. I don’t usually raise this, but the refs were putrid. The tech on Melo was nonsense and should be revoked. I also think Shump’s D on Ellis was only average until the end of the game. B for Shump.

  36. JPC's Wifey

    Thank the gods they pulled this one off. Jim was driving to Michigan last night and had his mom tape the game for him. So no one spoil it by texting or emailing him. He has no idea yet. Today, the world is a happy place!

  37. Z-man

    jon abbey: well, it helped him to wake up offensively today, so all for the best.and honestly, I seem to be in the minority, but I don’t really like any of these recaps very much. they’re very high on (attempted) humor and very low on analysis or even understanding of what just happened, they’re often flat out wrong on individual assessments. and as long as I’m going down this road, I actually don’t think almost any of the ‘articles’ on this site or the associated NY Times snippets are especially insightful, an ideal Knicks blog would combine the Posting and Toasting articles (which are great, very impressed with Seth Rosenthal, who also writes for NY Magazine now) and our comment threads (in which the various authors often have quite a bit of insight to add, some of the best posters here, just not the actual articles). my cranky two cents…

    I personally look forward to the recaps here. I find that the P&T and TKB stuff just repeats what I already know after watching the game myself. Yeah, some of the humor is gratuitous/repetitive, but considering that the recaps don’t involve a enough turnaround time for focus group screening, I don’t mind the clunkers. As to the grades, there are always a couple I have a beef with (like the A+ for Shump today, I’d give him an A- or B+ myself) but they make for good discussion. In general, I take my hat off to the authors here for their work on the recaps all year, keep it up, guys!

  38. Brian Cronin

    Thank the gods they pulled this one off. Jim was driving to Michigan last night and had his mom tape the game for him. So no one spoil it by texting or emailing him. He has no idea yet. Today, the world is a happy place!

    That’s hilarious. I hope Jim is successful with his radio silence!

  39. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, recaps are freakin’ hard. I admire and appreciate our recappers. There’s a reason I haven’t done one yet this year. It is way too hard for me.

  40. Z-man

    Going back to the end of the last thread: Brian, I also don’t get how anyone can still think that Melo is not a) a top 10-15 player in the league at worst and 2) not worth max money. I said at the time that we gave up 2 pieces too many for him, and I get that signing him and giving up as much as we did creates holes elsewhere, but really, can there still be much debate about his all-around skill set?

    He is simply NOT Crawford, Eddy, or Zach, or even Allan Houston for that matter. He’s also not Bosh, Granger, Boozer, or Johnson, i.e. max players not worth anywhere near the money. I would put him in the class with Ewing: not the best player at his position but a franchise-quality player nonetheless, and a guy that is fun to watch and to root for now that he’s been liberated from D’Antoni’s rigid system. The guy is just entering his prime and we have him locked up for the next few years. I’m pretty cool with that.

  41. er

    Yea i sense alotta folks are getting a little tired of his arrogance… He may be going thru a mid life thing or he’s jus one of those irritable old men idk

    Brian Cronin:
    Ugh, Watching the replay…man, Mike Breen….dude just has this air about him. Take JR Smith, for instance. I give JR plenty of grief at times for his his poor decision-making, but at the end of the day, I like JR Smith. He is definitely worth the grief he causes. I also know that JR Smith is far, far far from a “punk” or whatever, and yet when Breen talks about him, it is like JR is some lowlife. It is disappointing.

  42. Brian Cronin

    Yea i sense alotta folks are getting a little tired of his arrogance… He may be going thru a mid life thing or he’s jus one of those irritable old men idk

    I think he is better suited for national games, where he doesn’t have the chance to develop attachments and resentments to certain players. I mean, he’s clearly a talented play by play man, so he should be working on TV. He is one of the best play by play men in the game (his voice is amazing). But when he gets into analysis…ugh.

  43. er

    Yea I also think him doing national games is a part of his mindset as well ie his undying love for Derrick Rose

    Brian Cronin: I think he is better suited for national games, where he doesn’t have the chance to develop attachments and resentments to certain players.

  44. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, that is a drawback – when he does enough national games with the top teams he still manages to get attached to certain players. And the attachments are often odd. For instance, Rose has a lot of JR Smith in him, and yet Rose he loves and JR Smith he hates.

  45. er

    Hey dont get me started on D Rose …he and Westbrook are the same player yet Westbrook is so disliked….I think the NBA analysts just have so many flat out biases…like KD and Rose, maybe it’s LBJs fault hahahaha

    Brian Cronin:
    Yeah, that is adrawback – when he does enough national games with the top teams he still manages to get attached to certain players. And the attachments are often odd. For instance, Rose has a lot of JR Smith in him, and yet Rose he loves and JR Smith he hates.

  46. Frank O.

    Robert Silverman: Fixed. Good work, Thomas. Hey, I busted a hump last night to submit a (very late) recap and all I got was Jon Abbey kvetching about Chandler’s grade being too high, so I feel your pain. Good job

    Actually, Robert, your last recap was very good. You seem to write best when the Knicks completely suck. Like all artists, you’re best when you’re suffering…?

  47. TelegraphedPass

    austinanthony51: If bibby gets more playing time he wud pick up at least 10 dimes a game. He makes the right play everytime. Baron had damn near 10 turnovers. I kno bibby is a liability on defense but @ least he doesn’t turn the ball over and take stupid shots.

    No.

  48. TelegraphedPass

    austinanthony51: If bibby gets more playing time he wud pick up at least 10 dimes a game. He makes the right play everytime. Baron had damn near 10 turnovers. I kno bibby is a liability on defense but @ least he doesn’t turn the ball over and take stupid shots.

    Mike Bibby’s per36 minute stats this season: 6.7 points, 3.9 rebounds, 4 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.4 turnovers on .264 FG% and .279 3PT%. Plus, as you stated, he’s a liability on defense.

    Nice try, Henry Bibby.

  49. Thomas B. Post author

    Shump’s grade factored in a few things.

    1. He had to chase Ellis or Jennings most of the night while still running close outs on Dunleavy.

    2. 42 minutes played lead the team. And after putting up big minutes last night. Inspite of that, he played his best defense in the 4th when you’d expect him to be worn down to a nub.

    3. Did well manning the point even though that really is not his ideal position. Just 1 turnover.

    4. 6 boards, 5 dimes, and 3 steals from a rookie in a short season with no summer ball to help him get ready.

    To me, that was an A+ game for Iman Shumpert.

  50. Jerry H

    Hey, Recappers: Just to provide a counterpoint to Mr. Abbey’s opinion, I’m a Knicks bandwagoneer who hopped on board during the Lin madness and wound up sticking around (for good, it feels like), and your recaps are the first thing I read on the entire Internet the morning after a game. My opinion: they’re uniformly excellent (and funny) work, game-in, game-out. So thanks.

  51. briand

    28 minutes combined for Davis and Bibby. I know Douglas can be tough to watch, but at least you know you are going get defensive effort out of him. I think I would just give Douglas those 28 minutes and hope he can find his game.

  52. briand

    er: Hey dont get me started on D Rose …he and Westbrook are the same player yet Westbrook is so disliked….I think the NBA analysts just have so many flat out biases…like KD and Rose, maybe it’s LBJs fault hahahaha

    Hollinger made this point ad naseum last year. Pointing out that Rose and Westbrook had basically the same season last year, but Rose was the MVP and many wanted to run Westbrook out of town.

  53. ruruland

    Thomas B.:
    Shump’s grade factored in a few things.

    1. He had to chase Ellis or Jennings most of the night while still running close outs on Dunleavy.

    2. 42 minutes played lead the team. And after putting up big minutes last night.Inspite of that, he played his best defense in the 4th when you’d expect him to be worn down to a nub.

    3. Did well manning the point even though that really is not his ideal position.Just 1 turnover.

    4. 6 boards, 5 dimes, and 3 steals from a rookie in a short season with no summer ball to help him get ready.

    To me, that was an A+ game for Iman Shumpert.

    Relative to those circumstanced I’d agree. But he could not stay in front of Ellis. That’s a concern to me.

  54. jon abbey

    I wouldn’t call it a concern, Shumpert was obviously tired after his big minutes recently, and Monta was obviously pumped up in a huge way after Shump rendered him invisible in their previous game. presumably he’ll be back to the hyper blanket we all know and love soon enough, since he’s only 21 and it’s easy to recharge at that age.

  55. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    I wouldn’t call it a concern, Shumpert was obviously tired after his big minutes recently, and Monta was obviously pumped up in a huge way after Shump rendered him invisible in their previous game. presumably he’ll be back to the hyper blanket we all know and love soon enough, since he’s only 21 and it’s easy to recharge at that age.

    I agree. But it’s the one kind of player he might struggle with until he learns how to really get physical with the super quick small guards– once his rep is cemented the next couple of years he’ll be able to do it from a whistle perspective.

    Once you get labeled a great defensive player, which SHump can be, there’s a new level you can play at– where Artest is used to be, just mugging guys. Shump has a little Artest in him. He’s more of an Artest than an Iguodola or Bowen. He’ll never be that strong, but he’ll be strong, great hands, anticipation and lateral movement.

    It’s more of the attitude he has defending

  56. StatsTeacher

    I would like to wholeheartedly agree with Jerry H. I am a newbie from the Bay Area who followed Lin to NY and now I am a Knick fan — even bought League Pass to see all the Knick Games. Love KB!!

  57. jon abbey

    ruruland:
    Once you get labeled a great defensive player, which SHump can be, there’s a new level you can play at– where Artest is used to be, just mugging guys. Shump has a little Artest in him. He’s more of an Artest than an Iguodola or Bowen. He’ll never be that strong, but he’ll be strong, great hands, anticipation and lateral movement.

    along these lines, from Simmons’ column yesterday on the Celtics:

    “The league’s six best perimeter defenders right now, in some order, are LeBron, Tony Allen, Andre Iguodala, Shawn Marion, Iman Shumpert and … (drumroll please) … Avery Bradley.”

  58. Thomas B. Post author

    jon abbey:

    well, it helped him to wake up offensively today, so all for the best.

    and honestly, I seem to be in the minority, but I don’t really like any of these recaps very much. they’re very high on (attempted) humor and very low on analysis or even understanding of what just happened, they’re often flat out wrong on individual assessments. ….

    my cranky two cents…

    Well I guess you could call this constructive. I am the first to admit that I am the least talented contributor here which is totally fine with me given how good I think everyone else is. I think Jon has very good observations. I’d love to see them in a recap some day. I’ll even post it for you if you write it. Or we could do a collaboration! We could call it “The Tommy Jon Operation.”

  59. Jim Cavan

    Nicely done, Thomas.

    As my wife pointed out, I was in a car for 12 hours last night driving to Michigan. My sweet ‘Ma did me the courtesy of DVR’ing the game, but it cut off at the last two minutes. Yeah.

  60. Jim Cavan

    jon abbey: well, it helped him to wake up offensively today, so all for the best.

    and honestly, I seem to be in the minority, but I don’t really like any of these recaps very much. they’re very high on (attempted) humor and very low on analysis or even understanding of what just happened, they’re often flat out wrong on individual assessments.

    and as long as I’m going down this road, I actually don’t think almost any of the ‘articles’ on this site or the associated NY Times snippets are especially insightful, an ideal Knicks blog would combine the Posting and Toasting articles (which are great, very impressed with Seth Rosenthal, who also writes for NY Magazine now) and our comment threads (in which the various authors often have quite a bit of insight to add, some of the best posters here, just not the actual articles).

    my cranky two cents…

    There’s a fine line between “throwing in your two cents” and just being a dick. Also, I find it curious that the guy who apparently hates the recaps is routinely the first one to comment and bitch about the grades.

  61. jon abbey

    sure, that was kind of dickish by me, I have high standards and am not afraid to state my opinions. ignore them if you choose or try to do better, your call.

    Thomas, you’re right to essentially say “if you don’t like it, do better yourself”, I say that myself all the time to people complaining about other things. if I wasn’t already running three record labels, modding two other sports sites, and in the process of starting a new online music journal, I would probably take you up on it, but instead I’ll continue to snipe from the sidelines until I get banned.

  62. jon abbey

    and I stay up late, which is why I am “routinely the first one to comment and bitch about the grades”, the latter part of which is only true when I think one is wildly wrong, which again happens more often than it should.

  63. Jim Cavan

    jon abbey: sure, that was kind of dickish by me, I have high standards and am not afraid to state my opinions. ignore them if you choose or try to do better, your call.

    Oh yes sir.

    jon abbey: and I stay up late, which is why I am “routinely the first one to comment and bitch about the grades”, the latter part of which is only true when I think one is wildly wrong, which again happens more often than it should.

    You seem awfully confident in your ability to dole out cartoon letter grades, which are by no means subjective or open to interpretation or anything.

  64. Robtachi

    Jim Cavan: There’s a fine line between “throwing in your two cents” and just being a dick. Also, I find it curious that the guy who apparently hates the recaps is routinely the first one to comment and bitch about the grades.

    Eh, I dunno, all due respect, Jim, I think you’re being a bit too defensive if you’re accusing jon abbey of “being a dick”. Maybe he didn’t choose the utmost tactful way to throw in his two cents, but he didn’t call you or the rest of the KB staff hacks who should be run out of town or strung up in the village square. It’s still just an opinion – one which I can easily extract the points he was trying to make. Let’s not make it into something more personal than it is. You don’t want to be discouraging commenters from dissenting opinions for fear of being banned or labeled a “dick”; that’s a slippery slope to tumble down.

  65. jon abbey

    when someone gets an A+ and contributed close to nothing on one end of the court, yep.

    Melo and Amare got rightly demolished when they did well on offense but gave it all back on the other end, but Chandler sometimes gets a free pass for doing very little on offense. in the Chicago game specifically, they needed him to do more and he didn’t, so an overall A+ was silly. and clearly Chandler recognized this himself, as he was much more aggressive on offense last night, and it was a big reason they won.

    and not that it really matters, but I think the grades are too often based on overall perception of players coming into the game. as has been noted in this thread, my man Shumpie had his worst defensive game in a long time last night, until the final minutes at least. Baron Davis is another one, he was criticized in one recap for so many turnovers when in reality he had barely turned the ball over for the previous 3-4 games.

  66. Jim Cavan

    Robtachi: Eh, I dunno, all due respect, Jim, I think you’re being a bit too defensive if you’re accusing jon abbey of “being a dick”. Maybe he didn’t choose the utmost tactful way to throw in his two cents, but he didn’t call you or the rest of the KB staff hacks who should be run out of town or strung up in the village square. It’s still just an opinion – one which I can easily extract the points he was trying to make. Let’s not make it into something more personal than it is. You don’t want to be discouraging commenters from dissenting opinions for fear of being banned or labeled a “dick”; that’s a slippery slope to tumble down.

    Point taken. You’re right, I do get defensive when posters here bust their ass on these recaps and the response is “why don’t you be more like this other Knicks blog.” I’m a little cranky from lack of sleep and probably overreacted. Trust me, no one is being banned or otherwise being discouraged from posting.

  67. jon abbey

    Jim Cavan: Point taken. You’re right, I do get defensive when posters here bust their ass on these recaps and the response is “why don’t you be more like this other Knicks blog.” I’m a little cranky from lack of sleep and probably overreacted. Trust me, no one is being banned or otherwise being discouraged from posting.

    actually 95 percent of the responses are along the lines of “awesome job dood!”. mine is part of the other 5 percent, and I’d be defensive too if I were you.

    at least know that my only agenda is to try to make this site stronger, and I agree (seriously) that it’s somewhat lame for me to say that and then largely stay on the sidelines, but that’s what I’m doing.

  68. Robtachi

    Jim Cavan: Point taken. You’re right, I do get defensive when posters here bust their ass on these recaps and the response is “why don’t you be more like this other Knicks blog.” I’m a little cranky from lack of sleep and probably overreacted. Trust me, no one is being banned or otherwise being discouraged from posting.

    And I do agree with you that there’s a bit of a logical disconnect when someone says “why don’t you be more like this other Knicks blog?” One would think that if this blog experience isn’t satisfactory, those readers would just hit the ol’ dusty trail over to their desired blogging experience.

    For me, it’s in the middle somewhere. Not all the recaps tickle my fancy, but I don’t have a big enough problem with the mix of humor and analysis (whatever ratio it might be) to drive me away, especially considering what I perceive as an incredibly high quality of discussion in the threads. I mean… we’ve all seen the “conversations” on ESPN’s game pages, right? Homina.

  69. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    when someone gets an A+ and contributed close to nothing on one end of the court, yep.

    Melo and Amare got rightly demolished when they did well on offense but gave it all back on the other end, but Chandler sometimes gets a free pass for doing very little on offense. in the Chicago game specifically, they needed him to do more and he didn’t, so an overall A+ was silly. and clearly Chandler recognized this himself, as he was much more aggressive on offense last night, and it was a big reason they won.

    and not that it really matters, but I think the grades are too often based on overall perception of players coming into the game. as has been noted in this thread, my man Shumpie had his worst defensive game in a long time last night, until the final minutes at least. Baron Davis is another one, he was criticized in one recap for so many turnovers when in reality he had barely turned the ball over for the previous 3-4 games.

    Jon, Jon, Jon. Ty had a 706 TS and 139 offensive rating. It was everyone else who struggled offensively.

  70. jon abbey

    I didn’t say that, I gave an example of recaps that I think are much better than any on this site so it didn’t look like I am impossible to please (just difficult).

    I stay here for the comment threads (which again, I think are generally really good) and mostly ignore/skim the articles/recaps but the large letter grades are hard to ignore while scrolling down.

  71. Thomas B. Post author

    jon abbey:

    when someone gets an A+ and contributed close to nothing on one end of the court, yep.

    Melo and Amare got rightly demolished when they did well on offense but gave it all back on the other end, but Chandler sometimes gets a free pass for doing very little on offense. in the Chicago game specifically, they needed him to do more and he didn’t, so an overall A+ was silly.

    I get your point jon. And the reason your sniping doesn’t bother me because:
    1: You do make fair points
    2: Grading is very subjective
    3: I get paid the same whether you like it or not

    I try to grade based on how well I (in my flawed view of sports) thought the player did what he is supposed to do. When Chandler plays beastly defense, rebounds well and keep plays aloive with tip outs, he can still get an A from me even if he is only 2-4 from the floor. I do not expect Chandler to put in 18 against Gibson and Noah. But I do except defense and rebounding. So yeah he could do nothing on offense and still get an A, but that is just how I see the world. Just like I might give Novak an A for doing nothing more than hitting 4 3pfg in the 4th quarter of a win. I don’t look for 3 blocks from Novak, as I don’t look for 3pfg from Chandler. You need not be Oscar Robertson to get an A+.

    Ellis did score 35. I don’t think that was Shumpert’s fault exactly. Ellis is very good. Plus this was a very fast paced game (96.8) means a ton of shots are going up. Ellis’ USG was 34.0, which is in the Kobe level of usage. So yes, Ellis was going to get his but that did not mean Shumpert played poorly. I thought Ellis did the most damage in the 2nd when Bibby was on the floor.

    I’m so glad the Knicks are up on the Bucks by two games so we can talk about grading rather than how much our team sucks and missing the playoffs and firing Dolan. Thanks for winning guys!

  72. Thomas B. Post author

    I want to make it clear that it is fine to share that something does not meet your expectations. I disagree with grading at times as well. I’m always open to reading constructive advice on how I can get better at this.

  73. jon abbey

    fair enough. one reason I wouldn’t want to do the recaps myself (besides having too much on my plate already) is that I honestly don’t know how much to blame Shumpert for Ellis going off, just as one example. I also want to credit someone or something for taking Ilyasova out of the game, but again, am not really sure who to credit there, maybe part Melo and part the smaller lineup.

    and to your first point, Chandler needs to be held to a higher standard than a role player like Novak. under normal circumstances, he doesn’t need to look to score much, but in that Bulls game, with Amare and Lin out and with Smith/Davis/Novak all being non-factors, he did need to contribute more on that end. again, this was clearly obvious to him because he came out last night with a very different mindset on offense than he’s had in recent games, he was much more aggressive (although please, Tyson, never try to bring the ball upcourt yourself again unless your four teammates are all dead).

  74. Thomas B. Post author

    Ha. Amen to never seeing Tyson bringing the ball up.

    I can hold Chandler to a higher standard than a role player. That is fair. But I may expect less from him against the Bulls’ frontline than say the Bobcats’.

    I don’t know what happened, but I am glad Ilyasova only played 13 minutes. Was it the three fouls he picked up, or was it Skiles? Whatever, I’ll take it.

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