bobneptune:

“First of all Harden was the 3rd or 4th best player on OKC, not the exulted offensive machine melo is supposed to be, nor a franchise player from OKC’s perspective.

Neither were Boozer, AK nor the torn Achilles of Okur. Utah was 53-29 before Boozer (overrated) left. 53-29 would look pretty good to them today.”

This is a joke, right?

Harden is suddenly an after-thought when we discuss the Thunder’s improvement since he left?

You people are ridiculous.

One thing to be anti-Knicks , quite another to be revisionist and totally inconsistent.

Boozer was a beast in the flex, as was Williams. Maybe Sloan made a difference, too.

You know the Nets are 2 points better with Williams on the bench in his career there?

Juany8:

So let’s compare how the Nuggets have done compared to other teams that actually got value for their players. Utah made the playoffs last year and could make it this year, despite the fact that they also lost a hall of fame coach in Jerry Sloan and solid players like Boozer, Okur, and Kirilenko for nothing. Oklahoma City traded Harden straight up for Kevin Martin and lost nothing. Oh and they’ll also have 2 lottery picks to build around for the future. If the Nuggets doing good is an indictment of Melo’s value, then I guess OKC made the trade of the century with Harden. OKC hasn’t even used most of the assets it got from the trade.

First of all Harden was the 3rd or 4th best player on OKC, not the exulted offensive machine melo is supposed to be, nor a franchise player from OKC’s perspective.

Neither were Boozer, AK nor the torn Achilles of Okur. Utah was 53-29 before Boozer (overrated) left. 53-29 would look pretty good to them today.

jon abbey: actually if Irving could stay healthy (a big if), I think he’s a much better building block than Melo or Chandler or any Knick since Ewing, especially since his presence means there’s a solid shot LeBron might go back there.

I would consider records of 19-63, 21-45 and 22-46 pretty much the definition of a “shamble” :-)

Juany8: I always find this funny as well, the only Nugget who remains from the Melo era is Ty Lawson, who was a second year player at the time. It’s actually very easy to explain why the Nuggets are good without Melo when teams like Orlando, New Orleans, and Cleveland suck… The Nuggets got real value back for Melo, and they continued to build up the team from there. New Orleans decided to tank, Cleveland also decided to tank and lost all it’s players from the Lebron days to injury or free agency, and Orlando traded Dwight Howard for Arron Afflalo right before they let Ryan Anderson, who’s a better player, walk away for nothing.

So let’s compare how the Nuggets have done compared to other teams that actually got value for their players. Utah made the playoffs last year and could make it this year, despite the fact that they also lost a hall of fame coach in Jerry Sloan and solid players like Boozer, Okur, and Kirilenko for nothing. Oklahoma City traded Harden straight up for Kevin Martin and lost nothing. Oh and they’ll also have 2 lottery picks to build around for the future. If the Nuggets doing good is an indictment of Melo’s value, then I guess OKC made the trade of the century with Harden. OKC hasn’t even used most of the assets it got from the trade

right. Exactly.

ruruland: Outside of the injuries, Wilson Chandler has been really bad since coming to Denver outside of a three week stretch. So bravo to Bob for mentioning that.

It’s also fascinating to me that no one ever mentions that Denver’s top 3 players in ws/48,Koufos, McGee and Faried have absolutely nothing to do with the Melo trade.

Mosgov and Chandler have been absolute duds since coming to Denver.

It’s been the moves and picks outside of the Melo trade that have benefited the Nuggets the most.

I always find this funny as well, the only Nugget who remains from the Melo era is Ty Lawson, who was a second year player at the time. It’s actually very easy to explain why the Nuggets are good without Melo when teams like Orlando, New Orleans, and Cleveland suck… The Nuggets got real value back for Melo, and they continued to build up the team from there. New Orleans decided to tank, Cleveland also decided to tank and lost all it’s players from the Lebron days to injury or free agency, and Orlando traded Dwight Howard for Arron Afflalo right before they let Ryan Anderson, who’s a better player, walk away for nothing.

So let’s compare how the Nuggets have done compared to other teams that actually got value for their players. Utah made the playoffs last year and could make it this year, despite the fact that they also lost a hall of fame coach in Jerry Sloan and solid players like Boozer, Okur, and Kirilenko for nothing. Oklahoma City traded Harden straight up for Kevin Martin and lost nothing. Oh and they’ll also have 2 lottery picks to build around for the future. If the Nuggets doing good is an indictment of Melo’s value, then I guess OKC made the trade of the century with Harden. OKC hasn’t even used most of the assets it got from the trade

Keniman Shumpwalker: I can’t argue with that at all. They have definitely fared much better than the other teams that were forced/coerced to move their max players. I realize it came off as if I was belittling Uriji and Co. when in fact I recognize that they’ve done a great job. I still don’t think they’re a real contender, but they have assembled an exciting, quality team that is one of my favorite to watch in the league (along with the Clippers, Spurs, and, grudgingly, the behemoth that is the Heat).

Outside of the injuries, Wilson Chandler has been really bad since coming to Denver outside of a three week stretch. So bravo to Bob for mentioning that.

It’s also fascinating to me that no one ever mentions that Denver’s top 3 players in ws/48,Koufos, McGee and Faried have absolutely nothing to do with the Melo trade.

Mosgov and Chandler have been absolute duds since coming to Denver.

It’s been the moves and picks outside of the Melo trade that have benefited the Nuggets the most.

Keniman Shumpwalker: I can’t argue with that at all. They have definitely fared much better than the other teams that were forced/coerced to move their max players. I realize it came off as if I was belittling Uriji and Co. when in fact I recognize that they’ve done a great job. I still don’t think they’re a real contender, but they have assembled an exciting, quality team that is one of my favorite to watch in the league (along with the Clippers, Spurs, and, grudgingly, the behemoth that is the Heat).

Right, you and Lavor are right on.

Owen, the resident Nuggets and Harden troll here, forgets to mention that I actually picked Denver to set a franchise record in regular season wins this season (NBA, not the David Thompson, Dan Issel ABA Nuggets who were sick).

No Denver team has been better suited for the altitude (depth), or for George Karl (trapping and ability to cover a lot of ground on the wings).

I said last year they reminded me of some of those Sonics teams, most of which failed in the post-season a the game slowed down and smart teams adapted to the aggressive defense.

I think Karl is a very good coach who gets more out of his teams in the regular season than most. He’s not a great playoff coach in part because the team’s that have been built to suit his philosophy rarely shoot the ball well, which really hasn’t changed.

bobneptune:

Look at the teams that were forced to move a max player or lost one to free agency recently. CP3, Lebron, Bosh, Howard. All their former teams are in shambles.

actually if Irving could stay healthy (a big if), I think he’s a much better building block than Melo or Chandler or any Knick since Ewing, especially since his presence means there’s a solid shot LeBron might go back there.

Keniman Shumpwalker: Bingo. I was putting out Bird Calls all summer long (which mainly consists of tossing a bag of heroin into the air and hoping Birdman comes flocking). In all seriousness though, K-Mart & Birdman would have been significantly better moves, given our collective age/lack of athleticism, than the Over-the-Hill-Gang

Yep.

It boggles the mind that they waited months on Kenyon Martin (Bird to a lesser extent given his injury problems, but he too) Anyone who did cursory research or talked to just a few people around the league would have jumped on it from the get-go.

My guess is a few teams were negative recruiting, as it were.

bobneptune: Denver management did something far more outstanding. The saved the franchise from disaster.

Look at the teams that were forced to move a max player or lost one to free agency recently. CP3, Lebron, Bosh, Howard. All their former teams are in shambles.

Not only was Denver able to get 2 young 16 ppg players Gallo with his plus .140 WS/48 and Chandler who played 3 positions for D’antoni, showed improved 3 point shooting his last year with the knicks and was coming off 2 ankle surgeries and hernia surgery. Did I mention they were 22 and 23 at the time?

Also, besides dumping all the crap on their roster on the knicks and getting 2 #2?s and the knicks 2014 #1, They also can get the kicks 2016 pick which just might be very desirable.

Plus, Denver was able to avoid the looming PR disaster with billups (home town hero) with his 14M/4M buyout option conundrum.

Oh… I forgot, they also got an exciting 55 win team in the process while Cleveland, New Orleans, Toronto and Orlando were taking pipe!

Interesting perspective. You just think of all that?