Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, October 30, 2014

Game Preview: Knickerblogger does a Rapcast

Happy Friday! May you be blessed in your tournament game streaming boss avoidance.

I was fortunate to be invited on Rapcast, a Raptors Republic production, where Blake Murphy (@BlakeMurphyODC) and I dished on the book, the Knicks’ season to date, and this weekend’s home-and-home with the ‘Ptors.

So…. here’s something else you can stream! Perhaps during your lunch break.

Cheers.

51 comments on “Game Preview: Knickerblogger does a Rapcast

  1. chrisk06811

    I’m very confused. Are you actually rapping, or is this more of a human beatbox situation?

  2. Keniman Shumpwalker

    After reading that Zach Lowe piece regarding the SportsVU system and the Raptors use of it, and knowing that the Knicks have also employed the same technology, I wonder if we’ll ever catch up to the advance metrics revolution in earnest. It doesn’t seem possible with Jimmy D at the helm, and even less so when you consider Woody’s inherent stubbornness and seeming refusal to accept any other brand of basketball than The Bobby Knight way (which is to say; stick to a principle and never relent, even if it’s painfully obvious to all that it’s not working). The over-reliance on switching for a team lacking top flight athleticism (and possessing an abundance of mileage), seems to me to be something that a system like SportsVU would pick up on, and advise strongly against, given the relative skill set/age/athletic ability of the roster. I’m not one who believes that advanced metrics and cutting edge technology are the only tools that should be used when considering roster construction and gameplan, but I hate to think that we’re the dunce detectives on the force, ignoring the evidence in front of our faces to support a poorly-arrived at conclusion. Please, I’m begging, somebody give me reason to hope…

  3. prezs2reprsntme

    @ruru

    if im not mistaken, Melo used to be among league leaders in leakout transition points — those were pretty much always dunks, and easy and unguarded. Since the knicks don’t do that, and certainly not Melo the PF since he has to hit the glass more, that probably plays some role in why it declined, no?

  4. er

    prezs2reprsntme: @ruruif im not mistaken, Melo used to be among league leaders in leakout transition points — those were pretty much always dunks, and easy and unguarded. Since the knicks don’t do that, and certainly not Melo the PF since he has to hit the glass more, that probably plays some role in why it declined, no?

    Funny you bring up those leak out melo days. I was recently having a disussion regarding him and how ive never really seen a players game change so much in a 10 year career. Early melo was atheletic ,long, and active. He routinely caught alley oops from andre miller and marcus camby in denver, and also cherry picked his ass off as you have mentioned. Now he plays more of a brutish/ finess footwork slowdown old mans game. Interesting

  5. er

    Another discussion i was recently having was regarding the widely held perception that Tyson is the most indespensible knick. Watching the last few games it is clear that this team plays good D with Kmart in there. The offense on the other hand has been god awful so theres that

  6. Keniman Shumpwalker

    er:
    Another discussion i was recently having was regarding the widely held perception that Tyson is the most indespensible knick. Watching the last few games it is clear that this team plays good D with Kmart in there. The offense on the other hand has been god awful so theres that

    I think it’s difficult to quantify the difference between this season’s Tyson and last season’s Tyson. He was such a demon last season. His ability to hedge on the PnR and then time his retreat back into the paint was uncanny. He covered a ton of ground and always seemed to, at the very least, contest and alter forays into the paint. This season’s version, for whatever reason, has not covered nearly as much ground, nor consistently challenged shots at the rim; two things that Kenyon does very well, so it’s not surprising that we haven’t experienced a major drop-off (and maybe are seeing a net positive) with Kenyon in place of Tyson. It makes me wish we had invested in Kenyon earlier, as early as the offseason, rather than rely on the septugenarian troika of Sheed/Camby/KT (though, nuff respect to KT for being one of the last of a dying breed).

  7. er

    Keniman Shumpwalker: I think it’s difficult to quantify the difference between this season’s Tyson and last season’s Tyson. He was such a demon last season. His ability to hedge on the PnR and then time his retreat back into the paint was uncanny. He covered a ton of ground and always seemed to, at the very least, contest and alter forays into the paint. This season’s version, for whatever reason, has not covered nearly as much ground, nor consistently challenged shots at the rim; two things that Kenyon does very well, so it’s not surprising that we haven’t experienced a major drop-off (and maybe are seeing a net positive) with Kenyon in place of Tyson. It makes me wish we had invested in Kenyon earlier, as early as the offseason, rather than rely on the septugenarian troika of Sheed/Camby/KT (though, nuff respect to KT for being one of the last of a dying breed).

    man we could have had kmart AND Birdman. I think that will come back to haunt grunwald and co.

  8. yellowboy90

    jon abbey:
    seriously, if you’re going to reunite the 2009 Nuggets, go all the way.

    Arfe you saying the Knicks should go after Aaron Affalo who will probably be shopped this summer? :)

    Regarding Melo and Dunking: Last game he had an easy Dunk available when he blew by his defender but instead he just made a baby floater at the rim. I think sometimes a Dunk can motivate a team and energize teammates as well as deflate the other team at times. There have probably been a few layups of Melo’s that have been blocked that needed to be dunked.

    I think Melo needs to rededicate his workouts now that he is in good shape e can focus on insurance and maintaining leg explosion.

  9. Keniman Shumpwalker

    er: man we could have had kmart AND Birdman. I think that will come back to haunt grunwald and co.

    Bingo. I was putting out Bird Calls all summer long (which mainly consists of tossing a bag of heroin into the air and hoping Birdman comes flocking). In all seriousness though, K-Mart & Birdman would have been significantly better moves, given our collective age/lack of athleticism, than the Over-the-Hill-Gang

  10. Keniman Shumpwalker

    jon abbey:
    seriously, if you’re going to reunite the 2009 Nuggets, go all the way.

    On another Nugz-Knicks note…we definitely ended up with the wrong Brewer. Imagine how nicely Corey Brewer’s athleticism, length, and energy would have fit into our wing rotation? How did we not even give this guy a chance? Big fail for Mike D and Donnie.

  11. lavor postell

    Keniman Shumpwalker: On another Nugz-Knicks note…we definitely ended up with the wrong Brewer. Imagine how nicely Corey Brewer’s athleticism, length, and energy would have fit into our wing rotation? How did we not even give this guy a chance? Big fail for Mike D and Donnie.

    This is absurd. Brewer is not a good offensive player and has never developed into the defensive stopper capable of defending from the 1-3 as was predicted come out of college. He’s an adequate wing defender, but not somebody who is on an All-NBA level of defense in any capacity. He can be a decent wing player, but he is not much of a difference maker which is pretty much the status quo at the 2 we’ve experienced for the last couple of years.

  12. lavor postell

    The Nuggets rise is due to three factors. Their ridiculous amount of road games early on has led to a lot of home stands later in the season. Ty Lawson remembered that he is a supremely athletic and skilled ball handler capable of ripping through defenses. Lastly, Wilson Chandler has come back and gone beast mode playing the stretch 4 and given them a bit more 3 point shooting which they desperately have needed all season.

    The home/road split is a bit disconcerting though and is definitely something to think about.

  13. Keniman Shumpwalker

    jon abbey:
    RIP Ray Williams

    Seriously? Ray Williams died? I know he was battling cancer but damn…it’s really sad considering everything he battled back from. Seemed like he finally had his life on track. RIP.

  14. Keniman Shumpwalker

    lavor postell:
    The Nuggets rise is due to three factors.Their ridiculous amount of road games early on has led to a lot of home stands later in the season.Ty Lawson remembered that he is a supremely athletic and skilled ball handler capable of ripping through defenses.Lastly, Wilson Chandler has come back and gone beast mode playing the stretch 4 and given them a bit more 3 point shooting which they desperately have needed all season.

    The home/road split is a bit disconcerting though and is definitely something to think about.

    While they are undoubtedly fun to watch and a dangerous team, I remain skeptical because of those home/road splits and the lack of real, cohesive, half-court sets. They are perfectly constructed to take advantage of their unique homecourt advantage: they’re deep, fast, youngish, and they love to run. But in the playoffs, when the game slows down and when they may not have home court advantage in the later rounds (if they get that far), I have a hard time believing that they can outlast the Western Conf powers.

  15. jon abbey

    to be fair, they’ve already won the season series with each of OKC/LAC/MEM and have two games left with the Spurs.

    whichever two teams end up in the 4/5 matchup will have a very tough time making the Finals because their first round series will be so much tougher than those of the top three seeds (presumably).

  16. flossy

    The Nuggets home/road split is shaping up to be virtually the same as it was during the peak of the Melo era. Funny that we never heard anything about the altitude back then…

  17. Keniman Shumpwalker

    jon abbey:
    to be fair, they’ve already won the season series with each of OKC/LAC/MEM and have two games left with the Spurs.

    whichever two teams end up in the 4/5 matchup will have a very tough time making the Finals because their first round series will be so much tougher than those of the top three seeds (presumably).

    Yes, and the road W against the Thunder the other day was huge. I also probably want to find more flaws in them then there actually are simply because it stings to see them be, not only better than us, but infinitely more fun to watch and easy to root for.

    It really is insane how tough the West is. There are no easy outs, no cake walk to the WCF, and probably little chance for a team like Denver, who would be the 2 seed in the East, to get through the gauntlet that will consist of some combination of MEM/OKC/LAC/SA.

    Whatever happens, the Western Conf playoffs are going to be, I think, one of the most entertaining in recent memories.

  18. Keniman Shumpwalker

    jon abbey:
    to be fair, they’ve already won the season series with each of OKC/LAC/MEM and have two games left with the Spurs.

    whichever two teams end up in the 4/5 matchup will have a very tough time making the Finals because their first round series will be so much tougher than those of the top three seeds (presumably).

    Yes, and the road W against the Thunder the other day was huge. I also probably want to find more flaws in them then there actually are simply because it stings to see them be, not only better than us, but infinitely more fun to watch and easy to root for.

    It really is insane how tough the West is. There are no easy outs, no cake walk to the WCF, and probably little chance for a team like Denver, who would be the 2 seed in the East, to get through the gauntlet that will consist of some combination of MEM/OKC/LAC/SA.

    Whatever happens, the Western Conf playoffs are going to be, I think, one of the most entertaining in recent memory.

  19. lavor postell

    jon abbey:
    to be fair, they’ve already won the season series with each of OKC/LAC/MEM and have two games left with the Spurs.

    whichever two teams end up in the 4/5 matchup will have a very tough time making the Finals because their first round series will be so much tougher than those of the top three seeds (presumably).

    Those teams are coached by Scott Brooks, Vinny del Negro and Lionel Hollins respectively. I think Popovich would toy with Karl in a series. Their head-to-head record over the years is fairly hilarious.

    Karl is the master at maxing out his teams in the regular season. This has been his strength as a coach everywhere he’s been. He is not a very good tactician which is why his teams have often struggled in later playoff rounds. He’s more or less coached extremely talented teams over the last two decades and has one conference championship to show from that.

  20. er

    flossy: The Nuggets home/road split is shaping up to be virtually the same as it was during the peak of the Melo era. Funny that we never heard anything about the altitude back then…

    this is false…..

  21. flossy

    er: this is false…..

    No… it isn’t.

    This year’s Nuggets are 33-8 at home and 17-19 on the road. The two years of the Melo era when the Nuggets won more than .600 of their games, they were 34-7 at home and 19-22 on the road (’10) and 33-8 home/21-20 road.

    But this year, I guess the air got really thin, because how else could they be a decent team without a superstar?!

  22. Keniman Shumpwalker

    er: this is false…..

    And even if it were true, it would ignore the aspect of roster construction. Those teams weren’t built to run like hell, not like this team is, and even though the Karl system remains relatively unchanged, the makeup of the team is so different.

    Karl is the master at maxing out his teams in the regular season.This has been his strength as a coach everywhere he’s been.He is not a very good tactician which is why his teams have often struggled in later playoff rounds.He’s more or less coached extremely talented teams over the last two decades and has one conference championship to show from that.

    Totally agree with this and it’s further evidence as to why I have little faith in the Nugz making any real noise in the playoffs.

  23. Keniman Shumpwalker

    flossy: No… it isn’t.

    This year’s Nuggets are 33-8 at home and 17-19 on the road.The two years of the Melo era when the Nuggets won more than .600 of their games, they were 34-7 at home and 19-22 on the road (’10) and 33-8 home/21-20 road.

    But this year, I guess the air got really thin, because how else could they be a decent team without a superstar?!

    This year’s Nuggets are actually 31-3 at home. And what is your larger point? That the Nuggets are just as good now, if not better, than they were with Melo? Because, if that’s what you are saying than I basically agree with you. But, like those Melo teams, they’re still not good enough to do anything serious in the playoffs so, whatever…golf clap for Uriji and Co.

  24. er

    flossy: No… it isn’t. This year’s Nuggets are 33-8 at home and 17-19 on the road. The two years of the Melo era when the Nuggets won more than .600 of their games, they were 34-7 at home and 19-22 on the road (’10) and 33-8 home/21-20 road. But this year, I guess the air got really thin, because how else could they be a decent team without a superstar?!

    Im sorry i wasnt clear, i wasnt talking about the records. I know they are similar, i was talking about when you said no one brought up the altitude when refering to it

  25. lavor postell

    I’d take the Spurs over any team in the West. They have a ton of depth. They can play up tempo and they can grind you out in the half court. They have athletes to match up when teams go small and they have Duncan and Splitter to go big when they so desire. They also have Gregg Popovich along with Thibodeau are the two best coaches in the NBA by quite a margin.

    No other team has three offensive players with the overall quality of Parker/Ginobili/Duncan in terms of their individual abilities and how they all blend together within Spurs’ offensive system. Up in the West by 2.5 games with Parker coming back from injury. I think with Harden leaving OKC the Spurs I think will demonstrate that he was the margin last year.

  26. lavor postell

    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/55466/golden-in-denver-how-the-miraculous-nuggets-have-become-one-of-leagues-best-teams

    Couple of interesting things here, like how Denver’s offense has been killing it in crunch time. Also interesting to note is the unsustainable hot shooting of Lawson and Miller from mid-range and Chandler from 3 during this winning streak as well as the uptick in their defense standing as their aggressive pressing has been effective. Turnovers tend to decrease in frequency in the playoffs, so it will be interesting to see how much this will effect them.

  27. Keniman Shumpwalker

    lavor postell: This is absurd.Brewer is not a good offensive player and has never developed into the defensive stopper capable of defending from the 1-3 as was predicted come out of college.He’s an adequate wing defender, but not somebody who is on an All-NBA level of defense in any capacity.He can be a decent wing player, but he is not much of a difference maker which is pretty much the status quo at the 2 we’ve experienced for the last couple of years.

    I fail to see how it’s “absurd”. I’m not saying he’s a world beater or even a fringe all-star, or even a starter on a true contender. But I am saying that, on a team lacking in wing depth, a team that relied heavily on Ronnie Brewer early in the season, has given James Frickin White a bushel of token starts, and has trouble containing penetration and getting back in transition, a guy with Brewer’s athleticism and motor would be very valuable. Sure, he’s a terrible shooter and not a true lockdown defender, but as you said, he’s “an adequate wing defender” and a “decent wing player”…that’s a hell of a lot better than what we’ve been running out there at the 3.

  28. Keniman Shumpwalker

    lavor postell:
    I’d take the Spurs over any team in the West.They have a ton of depth.They can play up tempo and they can grind you out in the half court.They have athletes to match up when teams go small and they have Duncan and Splitter to go big when they so desire.They also have Gregg Popovich along with Thibodeau are the two best coaches in the NBA by quite a margin.

    No other team has three offensive players with the overall quality of Parker/Ginobili/Duncan in terms of their individual abilities and how they all blend together within Spurs’ offensive system.Up in the West by 2.5 games with Parker coming back from injury.I think with Harden leaving OKC the Spurs I think will demonstrate that he was the margin last year.

    I agree with this. I know the record and overall numbers for the Thunder are impressive, and I know that Martin has done an adequate job replacing some of the production lost in the Harden deal, but I can’t help but think that he WAS the margin in that series last year and that they will sorely miss his shot creation, ability to create for others, and ability to get to the free throw line at will when they’re matched up against a team as disciplined and versatile as the Spurs. They’re just not as scary without him, plain and simple.

  29. lavor postell

    Keniman Shumpwalker: I fail to see how it’s “absurd”. I’m not saying he’s a world beater or even a fringe all-star, or even a starter on a true contender. But I am saying that, on a team lacking in wing depth, a team that relied heavily on Ronnie Brewer early in the season, has given James Frickin White a bushel of token starts, and has trouble containing penetration and getting back in transition, a guy with Brewer’s athleticism and motor would be very valuable. Sure, he’s a terrible shooter and not a true lockdown defender, but as you said, he’s “an adequate wing defender” and a “decent wing player”…that’s a hell of a lot better than what we’ve been running out there at the 3.

    Yeah we had Landry Field last year and he didn’t make much of a difference. A player like that will not improve this team in any discernible way. Also it seems silly to care about a guy who is posting 43% shooting percentage and 30% from three, both are fourth highest career marks for him. He’s not a hell of a lot better than what we have and that is really not saying much.

  30. lavor postell

    Oh and his true shooting percentage is 51.2% and eFG% 48.8. I’m not going to lose much sleep over losing Brewer.

  31. Keniman Shumpwalker

    lavor postell:
    Oh and his true shooting percentage is 51.2% and eFG% 48.8.I’m not going to lose much sleep over losing Brewer.

    Fair points all, and I never said that there weren’t major warts in his game, but if you asked me to choose between the current version of Ronnie Brewer + James White and the current version of Corey Brewer, I choose the latter and it’s not even close. Again, I know his shooting numbers are terrible, but I will go back to the motor, athleticism, and, frankly, youth+health and still say he would have had value to this roster. I’m not, nor have I ever, lost any sleep thinking about Corey Brewer…but in discussing the intertwined fates of these franchises, I couldn’t help but think it would have been a nice luxury to have him on our bench.

  32. lavor postell

    Keniman Shumpwalker: Fair points all, and I never said that there weren’t major warts in his game, but if you asked me to choose between the current version of Ronnie Brewer + James White and the current version of Corey Brewer, I choose the latter and it’s not even close. Again, I know his shooting numbers are terrible, but I will go back to the motor, athleticism, and, frankly, youth+health and still say he would have had value to this roster. I’m not, nor have I ever, lost any sleep thinking about Corey Brewer…but in discussing the intertwined fates of these franchises, I couldn’t help but think it would have been a nice luxury to have him on our bench.

    Fair enough. Not much to argue there.

  33. bobneptune

    Keniman Shumpwalker: This year’s Nuggets are actually 31-3 at home. And what is your larger point? That the Nuggets are just as good now, if not better, than they were with Melo? Because, if that’s what you are saying than I basically agree with you. But, like those Melo teams, they’re still not good enough to do anything serious in the playoffs so, whatever…golf clap for Uriji and Co.

    Denver management did something far more outstanding. The saved the franchise from disaster.

    Look at the teams that were forced to move a max player or lost one to free agency recently. CP3, Lebron, Bosh, Howard. All their former teams are in shambles.

    Not only was Denver able to get 2 young 16 ppg players Gallo with his plus .140 WS/48 and Chandler who played 3 positions for D’antoni, showed improved 3 point shooting his last year with the knicks and was coming off 2 ankle surgeries and hernia surgery. Did I mention they were 22 and 23 at the time?

    Also, besides dumping all the crap on their roster on the knicks and getting 2 #2’s and the knicks 2014 #1, They also can get the kicks 2016 pick which just might be very desirable.

    Plus, Denver was able to avoid the looming PR disaster with billups (home town hero) with his 14M/4M buyout option conundrum.

    Oh… I forgot, they also got an exciting 55 win team in the process while Cleveland, New Orleans, Toronto and Orlando were taking pipe!

  34. Keniman Shumpwalker

    bobneptune: Denver management did something far more outstanding. The saved the franchise from disaster.

    Look at the teams that were forced to move a max player or lost one to free agency recently. CP3, Lebron, Bosh, Howard. All their former teams are in shambles.

    Not only was Denver able to get 2 young 16 ppg players Gallo with his plus .140 WS/48 and Chandler who played 3 positions for D’antoni, showed improved 3 point shooting his last year with the knicks and was coming off 2 ankle surgeries and hernia surgery. Did I mention they were 22 and 23 at the time?

    Also, besides dumping all the crap on their roster on the knicks and getting 2 #2?s and the knicks 2014 #1, They also can get the kicks 2016 pick which just might be very desirable.

    Plus, Denver was able to avoid the looming PR disaster with billups (home town hero) with his 14M/4M buyout option conundrum.

    Oh… I forgot, they also got an exciting 55 win team in the process while Cleveland, New Orleans, Toronto and Orlando were taking pipe!

    I can’t argue with that at all. They have definitely fared much better than the other teams that were forced/coerced to move their max players. I realize it came off as if I was belittling Uriji and Co. when in fact I recognize that they’ve done a great job. I still don’t think they’re a real contender, but they have assembled an exciting, quality team that is one of my favorite to watch in the league (along with the Clippers, Spurs, and, grudgingly, the behemoth that is the Heat).

  35. ruruland

    prezs2reprsntme:
    @ruru

    if im not mistaken, Melo used to be among league leaders in leakout transition points — those were pretty much always dunks, and easy and unguarded. Since the knicks don’t do that, and certainly not Melo the PF since he has to hit the glass more, that probably plays some role in why it declined, no?

    Yeah, some, for sure. But I always felt that early in his career Melo at least liked to go for highlight plays. And he used to put them up with some regularity, actually, especially through about 2007.

    It’s interesting, during Olympic practices he threw down 3-4 big vintage Melo dunks, the two-handed jams he cocks back behind his head.

    Melo actually was a really explosive one-footed dunker through about 23-24 years old.

    But the last 3-4 years I think Melo’s figured out that some of his dunks have actually correlated with his strains and muscle pulls.

    Yes, Melo has lost some of his one-footed take-off explosion, but I think you’ll see Melo put a few dunks down in the playoffs now that he is healthy.

  36. ruruland

    er: Funny you bring up those leak out melo days. I was recently having a disussion regarding him and how ive never really seen a players game change so much in a 10 year career. Early melo was atheletic ,long, and active. He routinely caught alley oops from andre miller and marcus camby in denver, and also cherry picked his ass off as you have mentioned. Now he plays more of a brutish/ finess footwork slowdown old mans game. Interesting

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5BXzbHB6bg

  37. ruruland

    bobneptune: Denver management did something far more outstanding. The saved the franchise from disaster.

    Look at the teams that were forced to move a max player or lost one to free agency recently. CP3, Lebron, Bosh, Howard. All their former teams are in shambles.

    Not only was Denver able to get 2 young 16 ppg players Gallo with his plus .140 WS/48 and Chandler who played 3 positions for D’antoni, showed improved 3 point shooting his last year with the knicks and was coming off 2 ankle surgeries and hernia surgery. Did I mention they were 22 and 23 at the time?

    Also, besides dumping all the crap on their roster on the knicks and getting 2 #2?s and the knicks 2014 #1, They also can get the kicks 2016 pick which just might be very desirable.

    Plus, Denver was able to avoid the looming PR disaster with billups (home town hero) with his 14M/4M buyout option conundrum.

    Oh… I forgot, they also got an exciting 55 win team in the process while Cleveland, New Orleans, Toronto and Orlando were taking pipe!

    Interesting perspective. You just think of all that?

  38. ruruland

    Keniman Shumpwalker: Bingo. I was putting out Bird Calls all summer long (which mainly consists of tossing a bag of heroin into the air and hoping Birdman comes flocking). In all seriousness though, K-Mart & Birdman would have been significantly better moves, given our collective age/lack of athleticism, than the Over-the-Hill-Gang

    Yep.

    It boggles the mind that they waited months on Kenyon Martin (Bird to a lesser extent given his injury problems, but he too) Anyone who did cursory research or talked to just a few people around the league would have jumped on it from the get-go.

    My guess is a few teams were negative recruiting, as it were.

  39. jon abbey

    bobneptune:

    Look at the teams that were forced to move a max player or lost one to free agency recently. CP3, Lebron, Bosh, Howard. All their former teams are in shambles.

    actually if Irving could stay healthy (a big if), I think he’s a much better building block than Melo or Chandler or any Knick since Ewing, especially since his presence means there’s a solid shot LeBron might go back there.

  40. ruruland

    Keniman Shumpwalker: I can’t argue with that at all. They have definitely fared much better than the other teams that were forced/coerced to move their max players. I realize it came off as if I was belittling Uriji and Co. when in fact I recognize that they’ve done a great job. I still don’t think they’re a real contender, but they have assembled an exciting, quality team that is one of my favorite to watch in the league (along with the Clippers, Spurs, and, grudgingly, the behemoth that is the Heat).

    Right, you and Lavor are right on.

    Owen, the resident Nuggets and Harden troll here, forgets to mention that I actually picked Denver to set a franchise record in regular season wins this season (NBA, not the David Thompson, Dan Issel ABA Nuggets who were sick).

    No Denver team has been better suited for the altitude (depth), or for George Karl (trapping and ability to cover a lot of ground on the wings).

    I said last year they reminded me of some of those Sonics teams, most of which failed in the post-season a the game slowed down and smart teams adapted to the aggressive defense.

    I think Karl is a very good coach who gets more out of his teams in the regular season than most. He’s not a great playoff coach in part because the team’s that have been built to suit his philosophy rarely shoot the ball well, which really hasn’t changed.

  41. ruruland

    Keniman Shumpwalker: I can’t argue with that at all. They have definitely fared much better than the other teams that were forced/coerced to move their max players. I realize it came off as if I was belittling Uriji and Co. when in fact I recognize that they’ve done a great job. I still don’t think they’re a real contender, but they have assembled an exciting, quality team that is one of my favorite to watch in the league (along with the Clippers, Spurs, and, grudgingly, the behemoth that is the Heat).

    Outside of the injuries, Wilson Chandler has been really bad since coming to Denver outside of a three week stretch. So bravo to Bob for mentioning that.

    It’s also fascinating to me that no one ever mentions that Denver’s top 3 players in ws/48,Koufos, McGee and Faried have absolutely nothing to do with the Melo trade.

    Mosgov and Chandler have been absolute duds since coming to Denver.

    It’s been the moves and picks outside of the Melo trade that have benefited the Nuggets the most.

  42. Juany8

    ruruland: Outside of the injuries, Wilson Chandler has been really bad since coming to Denver outside of a three week stretch. So bravo to Bob for mentioning that.

    It’s also fascinating to me that no one ever mentions that Denver’s top 3 players in ws/48,Koufos, McGee and Faried have absolutely nothing to do with the Melo trade.

    Mosgov and Chandler have been absolute duds since coming to Denver.

    It’s been the moves and picks outside of the Melo trade that have benefited the Nuggets the most.

    I always find this funny as well, the only Nugget who remains from the Melo era is Ty Lawson, who was a second year player at the time. It’s actually very easy to explain why the Nuggets are good without Melo when teams like Orlando, New Orleans, and Cleveland suck… The Nuggets got real value back for Melo, and they continued to build up the team from there. New Orleans decided to tank, Cleveland also decided to tank and lost all it’s players from the Lebron days to injury or free agency, and Orlando traded Dwight Howard for Arron Afflalo right before they let Ryan Anderson, who’s a better player, walk away for nothing.

    So let’s compare how the Nuggets have done compared to other teams that actually got value for their players. Utah made the playoffs last year and could make it this year, despite the fact that they also lost a hall of fame coach in Jerry Sloan and solid players like Boozer, Okur, and Kirilenko for nothing. Oklahoma City traded Harden straight up for Kevin Martin and lost nothing. Oh and they’ll also have 2 lottery picks to build around for the future. If the Nuggets doing good is an indictment of Melo’s value, then I guess OKC made the trade of the century with Harden. OKC hasn’t even used most of the assets it got from the trade

  43. ruruland

    Juany8: I always find this funny as well, the only Nugget who remains from the Melo era is Ty Lawson, who was a second year player at the time. It’s actually very easy to explain why the Nuggets are good without Melo when teams like Orlando, New Orleans, and Cleveland suck… The Nuggets got real value back for Melo, and they continued to build up the team from there. New Orleans decided to tank, Cleveland also decided to tank and lost all it’s players from the Lebron days to injury or free agency, and Orlando traded Dwight Howard for Arron Afflalo right before they let Ryan Anderson, who’s a better player, walk away for nothing.

    So let’s compare how the Nuggets have done compared to other teams that actually got value for their players. Utah made the playoffs last year and could make it this year, despite the fact that they also lost a hall of fame coach in Jerry Sloan and solid players like Boozer, Okur, and Kirilenko for nothing. Oklahoma City traded Harden straight up for Kevin Martin and lost nothing. Oh and they’ll also have 2 lottery picks to build around for the future. If the Nuggets doing good is an indictment of Melo’s value, then I guess OKC made the trade of the century with Harden. OKC hasn’t even used most of the assets it got from the trade

    right. Exactly.

  44. bobneptune

    jon abbey: actually if Irving could stay healthy (a big if), I think he’s a much better building block than Melo or Chandler or any Knick since Ewing, especially since his presence means there’s a solid shot LeBron might go back there.

    I would consider records of 19-63, 21-45 and 22-46 pretty much the definition of a “shamble” :-)

  45. bobneptune

    Juany8:

    So let’s compare how the Nuggets have done compared to other teams that actually got value for their players. Utah made the playoffs last year and could make it this year, despite the fact that they also lost a hall of fame coach in Jerry Sloan and solid players like Boozer, Okur, and Kirilenko for nothing. Oklahoma City traded Harden straight up for Kevin Martin and lost nothing. Oh and they’ll also have 2 lottery picks to build around for the future. If the Nuggets doing good is an indictment of Melo’s value, then I guess OKC made the trade of the century with Harden. OKC hasn’t even used most of the assets it got from the trade.

    First of all Harden was the 3rd or 4th best player on OKC, not the exulted offensive machine melo is supposed to be, nor a franchise player from OKC’s perspective.

    Neither were Boozer, AK nor the torn Achilles of Okur. Utah was 53-29 before Boozer (overrated) left. 53-29 would look pretty good to them today.

  46. ruruland

    bobneptune:

    “First of all Harden was the 3rd or 4th best player on OKC, not the exulted offensive machine melo is supposed to be, nor a franchise player from OKC’s perspective.

    Neither were Boozer, AK nor the torn Achilles of Okur. Utah was 53-29 before Boozer (overrated) left. 53-29 would look pretty good to them today.”

    This is a joke, right?

    Harden is suddenly an after-thought when we discuss the Thunder’s improvement since he left?

    You people are ridiculous.

    One thing to be anti-Knicks , quite another to be revisionist and totally inconsistent.

    Boozer was a beast in the flex, as was Williams. Maybe Sloan made a difference, too.

    You know the Nets are 2 points better with Williams on the bench in his career there?

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