Game preview and thread: Knicks v. Celtics
April 17th, 2012 by Thomas B. | Comments | Permalink |
Yawn.
Yet another “biggest game of the season.” After the Sixers, two games against the Bucks, and the Easter Sunday miracle, I honestly struggled to find a reason to really get into this game. But then I remembered that the Knicks still have a shot at the division crown with a win tonight! The Knicks are just 4.5 games back of the Celtics with 6 games to play so there is still a chance.
To figure out what chance the Knicks have at the division, I ran a computer simulation that plays the rest of the season 100,000 times. I also accounted for 3,500 possible variations such as potential injuries, playoff teams resting starters, and the impact Atlanta’s famed strip clubs will have on the eFG% of JR Smith. And what did the computer simulation tell me:
“Dude, get a life.”
Yeah, the Knicks are not winning the division but so what. That doesn’t mean we can’t win this game if for no other reason than to keep the god awful smirk off of Paul Pierce’s face for what will most likely be the last time we see him this season (and yes, his smirking on the bench counts). Here is how we do it:
1. Stay in Rondo’s face
Every time I’ve watched the Celtics this year, I’ve noticed defenders dropping off Rondo. The defenders seem to do this because they think Rondo can’t shoot. And while this is true, the lack of pressure makes it just that much easier for Rondo to survey the defense and rack up the assists. I get that defenders don’t want Rondo to blow past him, but the Knicks are the rare team that may be able to take Rondo out of his comfort zone. The combination of Shumpert and Chandler present a real challenge. Shumpert can stay in Rondo’s face and keep pressure on him, and if Rondo beats Shumpert, then Chandler should be waiting to protect the rim. Rondo loves to dish after he draws in the bigs, so the Knicks have to do a good job of closing passing lanes and keeping a body on anyone who crashes the offensive boards.
2. Rebounding
The Celtics are not a strong rebounding team. They are 29th overall with only 39.2 boards per game. They are also 28th in the NBA in Offensive Rating (100.8). If the Knicks can control the glass, they can further limit Boston on offense. The Knicks inability to get key defensive rebounds has been a problem in the past. Chandler can’t do it all but a simple box out from his teammates would do wonders.
3. Efficient offense
The Knicks offense sputters at times. That is to be expected when a team is 21st overall in Offensive Rating (103.3). Because the Celtics are such a strong defensive team (1st with 98.1) the Knicks can’t afford to waste possessions with bad shots and turnovers. The Knicks should look to exploit the injury thinned Celtic line up by pushing the pace and attacking the basket. Here is where the team really misses Lin. Lin attacked the basket often which resulted in either contact, drawing in defenders for an assist, or the odd “how did he do that lay up.” Rather than hoping the deep shots will drop tonight, the Knicks should attack the Celtic line. Getting Garnett in foul trouble can only help matters. Now if the Knicks would only knock down a few free throws.
All in all, this is a game the Knicks can win. One they must win to keep the fantasy of a Division title alive.
@Don't bother; I don't tweet
Oh and I won’t edit your post to make you first if some other poster beat you to it. Please don’t ask me to do that.
I don’t know about another “biggest game of the year”.
But I do like this as a tremendous moral victory. Split the season series with the hated Celtics, and in the process, beat one of the hottest and toughest defensive teams in the Association.
I’d still like this game better if Amar’e could even give 20 minutes off the bench…
Fuck, I didn’t realize this doubled as the game thread itself.
Fire Dolan!
SHUMP SHUMP
Shump Shump!
Good write-up. You got a snicker out of me with the “get a life” line.
This is gonna be a long, ugly night.
Rondo 3. Welp. Troll Rondo is definitely in the building tonight. The man loves national TV.
I was watching the Mets before this so its been ugly for awhile tonight. sigh
I meant to say “if Rondo is going to hit threes.” But I’m not sure I need the qualifier, we seem to be a step slow.
Crowd groans when fields is about to shoot. He really is a momentum killer.
That was old school melo just now. Just beast.
It got a lot prettier quickly. 11-0 following the time out, since the foul was before the time out.
lol I think its safe to say that we’re running the denver offense
All due respect to Tyson but he has now overplayed both Rondo and Garnett away from the basket and gotten beat on drives. Calm down!
When melo’s jumper is falling that quick release is so sweet.
Does anyone doubt that the face we will associate with this season, win or lose, will be JR Smith’s? There’s something about that guy. I won’t know if I hate him or I love him until I see how the season ends.
Knicks are functioning much better on offense with Smith in the game rather than Davis.
Not bad. Up 6 after one. Melo still en fuego. JR Smith rather than Earl in the house.
Personally, I like the guy. Even the way he pushes the ball up the floor. As opposed to Davis who walks it up. I would rather play some combo of jr and shump at the point for most of the game. Davis needs to be limited to 15 minutes. Right as I’m typing this jr with a sweet dime to Jeffries. He had one earlier to Tyson.
And sometimes you don’t run the offense at all, but JR Smith hits a 27 foot 3 pointer.
Smith = Incandescent
Tonight is the love him night. Hes sick right now.
I like Smith. Definitely not an old schooler’s favorite. Definitely boom or bust. But he has a track record of being a high efficiency scorer who can contribute elsewhere as well….
It was a good pickup, though it has taken him a while to reacclimatize….
I know smith might bolt after the season. He’s a perfect fit on this team. Coming off the bench. Te crowd plays off his energy. I hope he realizes what a great situation this is for him. Maybe he stays despite the pay cut.
Before I saw JR Smith on a nightly basis, I thought that he was just going to be a taller Nate Robinson — instant offense from a gunner with no conscience. He has been much more (and less) than that. The defensive effort has largely been strong. He has been a much more willing distributor than expected. He also has bottomless confidence in his shot, even when he is on a 2 for 11 streak.
Knicks are a championship contender if Smith is the fifth best player on the team.
JR is playing like a warrior king.
Outside of shooting, Smith can do a little of everything: bring the ball up, defend and grab s rebound. Hes even had a nine assist game FWIW.
JR Smith is making it happen!
Fuckin Rondo
Stop the fight! Stop the fight!
I see a boot and a throat, and one approaching the other.
Everyone is draining threes even Bibby. This reminds me of the Bulls game from early last season.
Absolute insanity! Bombs away.
Wow. Hot
I know it sounds ridiculos, but Knicks need to maintain the defensive intensity…can’t let up against this veteran team….last year at end of season they played a game like this against boston @ MSG…were up nearly 20 in first half, only to blow it all in 4th quarter and ultimately lose.
Like a presidential race, expect things to tighten.
Novak with 4 pt play
Glad he got your seal of approval…
This is the Smith we heard about. The one that Ruru talked about. Man, if we could bottle that for the playoffs, my expectations would need a little revision! Then again, if he gets hot and stays hot through the playoffs, he’ll probobly get a better offer elsewhere next year. Damn!
Lol that smile on Woodson’s face says it all, he’s getting an extension right now in my book..5 minutes from now maybe not but stay in the moment people
I eagerly wait the gif of Woody hugging Novak.
Yep the Classic Rivers speech that always brings them back in the game..the inevitable
JR Smith is shooting a SMOLDERING 6-7 from 3 point range.
Now now
SMITH!!! Unreal.
What a joke….
An awesome awesome joke….
JR hit that one from CHINA
The fact that you have more faith in the Boston Celtics erasing a 21 point deficit than the Knicks holding on to win speaks volumes.
That’s at least the second.d 25foot buzzer beater from JR.Z Novakaine is crazy hot himself but is only a third wheel tonight.
Carmelo loves fouling Rondo at the end of the quarter…smh
ruruland: Glad he got your seal of approval…
Smith has always been productive, though volatile…
Don’t know why I am even watching this, since it’s only the fourth quarter that’s going to matter…..
The #1 defense in the league has allowed our underachieving offense to score 72 points. What’s even better about all of this is that Paul Pierce has nothing to smile about.
Pretty amazing the lead is only 20.
Weird to say that, but Boston is keeping things from getting out of hand.
sick 3 point shooting, but fail by chandler…
Am I the only one who’s nervous that the Knicks are only up 19 after all this?
And who said the Denver offense was bad, 72 in the first half, somewhere George Karl is rolling on something
How did Smith blow that 3 to end the half!!
who expected the JR half court buzzer beater to go in…
Wow. That was some half of shooting.
oh ok didn’t know that
Well, you don’t see that every day.
I’m not sure my eyes are functioning properly. Bibby with 3 points, 3 boards, 5 assists and 0 turnovers. Bring on the undead jokes/comments.
I am hoping that the Knicks put this away in the 3rd quarter and we see extended garbage time. It would be great to see 10 minutes of Jorts, TD and Bibby in the fourth quarter.
WOW 40 point 2nd quarter! We have to hold onto the Smith/Novak combo somehow…
The only thing that could make me enjoy this broadcast more would be if Kenny Smith came out and hit Shaq in the back of the head with a folding chair, then took his rightful seat away.
See….now u did it.
You virtually guaranteed a celtics comeback.
Shit
How ’bout Stat, BD and Fields off the bench when Stat is healthy. Could solve the riddle and be crazy effective.
The tweet, Kenny got the flu like his rings: someone gave it to him, was killer.
If you suddenly see JR Smith sign a large promotional contract with a New York area company that does a lot of unrelated business with MSG, follow the money. JR Smith — official spokesman for Turner Construction Company. In unrelated news, the cost of the MSG renovation just went up by $5 million.
Don’t be nervous Jake because the Knicks play defense. Although, I was at the Garden when the Knicks beat the Celts on Christmas Day after being behind by 20 or so. So, who knows. Real reality TV, right? Go Knicks.
Sorry for double post—I wish it were so simple ephus.
I do not have game effecting skills like that. You are confusing me with THCJ.
He puts the “fun” in “funereal”?
I can still see the corner jumpshot that Ken “The Animal” Bannister hit. Had to be the longest make of his career.
No, I am still very nervous….they literally took just about the same lead against Boston in their final meeting of regular season last year, only for it to evaporate by end of game and lose….Knicks are good at building leads very quickly and also squandering them quickly….great that they are up, I am psyched, but still on edge, unfortunately…especially against boston!
Wait, what? Missed the first half. What happened?! Looking at the play by play, it’s basically just Novak 3 point shot, JR Smith 3 point shot. Whaaaat?
Okay, Baron should never take a step back like that.
Suck it, Paul Pierce.
Carmelo is seriously destroying Paul Pierce. I really love seeing Paul Pierce unhappy.
Melo 10-14 and hes not even the star of the show thanks to JR.
hahaha. This is fantastic.
Lol at the look Shump gave Ro do after that foul call
I know fans always talk about stuff like this, but I can’t imagine all contracts and endorsements aren’t highly scrutinized by the league (and particularly by competing teams). We are talking about nine and ten figure businesses–they aren’t going to allow themselves to be hurt by outright fraud.
Only Baron…
I like that we don’t care that Rondo is hurt.
God Bless America Baron Davis.
Why must you fuck up everything you touch these days?
Now both Celtics I sorta like are injured. It would be devastating for the Cs if he can’t get up.
Yeah, Baron blowing the moment kind of ticks me off. He can be such a doof
shouldve had scored if play on after rondo was hurt, but disappointed to turn it over 5 v 4
I was kidding. Not even the Dolans are foolish enough to try to money launder extra salary to a player. If they ever got caught, it would make the penalties that the NBA imposed on Glen Taylor and Minnesota for the the Joe Smith fiasco look like a walk in the park. I could even see Stern requiring that MSG sell off the team.
Philly loses.
Shump. You just don’t need that foul. Jee-zus.
Fucking Baron
hate to say, but Brandon bass is really hurting us.
I don’t think I’ll ever see a better argument for cheating.
Here is where celts chip away….knicks over limit in first 4 minutes of the quarter….terrible.
How was that not a fucking foul?
A lot of crying on the floor right now.
Hmmmmm….
Get Baron the fuck out of there.
Get off the floor Baron Davis. Just go away.
PLEASE
PLEASE
PLEASE
Give me a FUCKING break.
Barren Davis strikes again.
Baron is single-handedly allowing the celts back into tis. Poor shooting, poorer passing and stupid fouls.
Sick of him
Game starting to get away from us, almost single-handedly through Baron Davis.. a little help from Landry.
Davis is killing us.
The refs are actively trying to get the celtics back in this
Baron is such a huge liability, it’s depressing.
put Walker in, Bibby, anyone please.
I just looked it up:
In royal ranks, an Earl > a Baron
Melo’s second jump is like the guy from the planet of the apes, damn that second jump is crazy
Beautiful.
Not at all surprised to see Davis has a -11. Man he stinks.
This game is getting very chippy. Knicks have to be careful. Boston is a very dirty team. Can’t have anymore injuries this close to the playoffs.
Clever.
The Knicks get away with a lot of hands on D.
The Celts get away with a lot of extra contact.
For real. It kinda looked like Melo was just drawing the foul from Stiemsma so he could barrel into him during the shot.
But on a serious note, the way Anthony plays I think he should be buffed up more instead of staying lean as most of you here have often suggested, he plays like a bully, like a running back, he needs to have more meat to absorb all that contact at the rim.
Amazing a corpse is outplaying Davis.
Craig Sager says “Diabeetus.”
That is all.
Rondo looks bad.
I’d rather have the corpse out there over baron
now THAT is a nice way to beat ball pressure.
How many Chandler dunks just this quarter?
wow bibby is going nuts tonight lol
Why did it take this game for the PG’s to figure out how to run a pick and roll with Chandler?
Have I mentioned how much I hate Paul Pierce? It
Bibby of all people is a +22.
It’s like video game fast. Double-tapping the “jump” button.
Who knew Ray Allen was the key to Boston’s interior defense?
What a sweet pass from Melo to Tyson.
Carmelo Anthony is 1 rebound and 3 assists away from a triple double.
Maybe it’s because the Celtics are taking away the 3 pointers this quarter?
Seriously. Paul pierce is this generations Reggie miller. I can’t stand him. Obviously if he was a knick he would be my favorite of all time.
Paul Pierce has taken 14 free throws. Do the referees think he has weaker bones or something?
Tyson rubbing his foot in Stiemsma’s face on that last dunk, hilarious.
It’s appalling how few calls melo gets.
Now he has 10 boards.
Only 2 more assists, Melo!
Melo is 2 rebounds away from a triple double.
Check that – 2 assists away from a triple double.
I’m surprised the refs didn’t give Tyson a tech for dunking on KG.
Melo is 3 assists away from a triple-double.
Word. Not so used to the Knicks adjusting and finding more than one way to beat at team I guess!
16 free throws for Pierce, seriously? He’s getting bailed out too often.
JR –
please learn lessons. You CANNOT reach in with this crew. stop please.
Why is pierce alone
Ok, Garden crowd. Lets not motivate him please.
If Pierce beats us.. I may freak out.
The game has really slowed.
wonder why they can’t have replay for a play like that. That is some bad karma.
@136 I would say Melo usually gets the star treatment but no one in the league gets the Paul Pierce treatment except PP.
Off pierces toe there. Fucking refs! The NBA is so frustrating with these shitty and biased refs. Fucking gamble on games and are always biased. God it pisses me off.
Note to Knicks on D.
Please stop with the stupid reach ins. Keep Boston off the line.
I would love to see the Knicks use some ball denial on Pierce over the next 8 minutes.
Pierce kicked it out.
We need a surge
Melo could really use a brief rest.
Just a tad out of control there.
Refs calling two entirely different halves smh
Did you see Garnett hook Melo on that pick. Ridiculous.
Looks like everything Thomas B. warned us about happened on that last Boston possession, glad they defended it well.
If Pierce is on the floor Melo has to be too.
This is why you don’t get chippy and keep the chatter to a minimum. Once the refs think a fight is brewing they’ll call everything.
Loving that these Knicks get stops. But the offense is starting from too far out.
Nice play there
Are you FUCKING kidding me?
Celts are getting so many calls
That seemed like a REALLY cheap foul for Melo’s 5th. Replay would be nice.
Well, I guess he’s gonna get it. Crap.
Eltics with 30 FTs
To the knicks 17
Ridiculous. And at msg
I want my “Who Shot? J.R.” T-shirt.
“It’s like a TORTURE CHAMBER inside of there!” – Harlan
Well, the Knicks have been hoisting up and making 3′s all day. That will impact how much you’re going to the line.
Lead at 8
@Caleb Me!!!
Refs wearing green, making up for Knicks 3 pt shooting by giving celtics shots at the line
Okay, you can put Fields in for Bibby now.
oh Pierce, still not better than Melo but still nice move
Not in the second half.
Not in the second half.
Bibby with 26 minutes played and well played. Bibsanity!
An another foul
And they are making up the lead without the clock running
that, from Novak, was huuuuuge.
“Rrrrrright between the eyes!!!!”
Novak!!!
Triple. Double.
NOVAKOLYPSE
and again.
I guess as long as we shoot 19/31 from 3, we can beat the celtics. Of course we’ve let them shoot 11/20.
At this point, I think Novak is more important to the team than Lin. Give him the MLE Dolan.
Novak on Fire, he better get an A+ for this,
It’s funny because he’s so old that he uses a bib when he eats.
What a weapon that Novak is.
Melo saw that he needed to take over the game, and he did — by hitting Novak for two straight 3s.
Extremely smart playing by Melo. Plus, when other teams watch this film, they are going to be less likely to double team Melo on the catch in the high post during crunch time.
I don’t need any fancy statistics to tell me that Novak is awesome.
who cares, we deserve this, too many close game with the celts anyways, won by 1 on opening night, lost by 2 and by 4 points in Boston, lets blow them out for once fight offense with offense haha
Melo fucked around and got a triple double.
I don’t know. 26 minutes with no rebounds does not bode well.
7 = 30.
JR Smith and Steve Novak combined have hit as many 3 pointers as Dwyane Wade has all season.
Stop letting take points off the lead without the clock running
haha the last time Melo had a triple double was against a Dantoni team, surprise surprise
Right Caleb—where the hell was the D? Awful effort on D in the third and fourth quarters. Fool’s gold. Who guarded Pierce tonight? Sorry to be negative, but really the D was awful. Generally our guards were terrible tonight, except for Bibby who stepped up. I can’t believe a win against the Celtics feels so shitty.
Thomas really on par for most hated man tonight if Novak doesn’t get an A
That win felt great! I finally feel confident that the Knicks will make the playoffs.
Punk ass pierce had to take the last game off to get ready for this one lol
Pierce aint taking a bow at center court this evening.
Exhale.
You can see Melo wanted this tonight, after that Novak three, he pointed to the celebrating Novak to slow his roll haha how about the leadership guys
So, 4 games against Chi, Miami, and Boston and we go 2-2. I’m good with that.
@202, i’ll just say it was a weird game. Emotions high, both teams playing out of character. YOu’re not going to win too many playing that kind of D, but then, the Celtics could say the same. Nice catching them on 4th game in 5 nights, though. And they’ve got Orlando, tomorrow. I’d guess O-town clinches the 6-seed in that one.
Pierce had 18 foul shots
Dude relax, its a shortened season. Same thing happened when Miami played Boston, glad to see we are on the better end of this one. Like my grand kids say a win is win is a win is a win or something like that.
Another 90% night from chandler
And, I don’t remember who said it, but as good as Novak was, I don’t see how anyone can come away from that game thinking he’s more valuable than Lin is. If we had even average PG play we would have won by 20+ .
Yea the whistles were favoring Boston severly
Who said that ?
Who said that he was?
Shit man – hoping we still get Novak for bi-annual exceptions, but games like this going make it impossible.
Yep. Fucking Baron made it a game
I really cannot take any more Paul Pierce. Please go away.
Big 3 didn’t play last game
I know the 7th and 8th spots don’t bode well for playoff matchups, but I’m REALLY happy that we won’t be playing Boston in the first round. Let someone else mess with these guys.
And let who run the point next year?
Gideon, you’re probably right. I’m really glad my grandkids weren’t staying over tonight! It would not have been cool. On the other hand, I’m usually stupid optimistic, so I don’t know what set me off. Maybe it was the sick shooting and knowing that but for that we would have lost bad.
I can’t tell if I’m being trolled or not. This was the most enjoyable win of the season, by a long shot.
I said it, Novak looked valuable this game more than Lin or maybe I’m not missing Lin at all. Anyhow considering how he fell into our lap, I’m sure he is easily replaceable. Novak on the other hand, best 3 pt shooter in the league, come on he’s on the level shooting wise of Allen, Miller and Kerr. I don’t think that’s replaceable.
Wait, are people serious? I know it wasn’t a sterling defensive effort tonight, but the Knicks just handed the NBA’s hottest team post-break its own ass in pretty convincing fashion save for a late, and insufficient run in the 4th.
Mike James, triple x or teen wolf or another PAWS product. I’m sure we’ll find someone. Look at the PG playing field, even the Lakers are getting by with Sessions. They’re the easiest to replace. It’s the deepest position in the league.
Doug, I’m not sure what trolling means exactly, but I just didn’t really enjoy the game overall. Hey, it’s a great win though. Glad you loved it and sure it’s cool that we won. Enjoy.
Half glass full, half glass empty, this board is never changing, not until we win a title….
I don’t understand the point of being a fan.
Are you condoning that kind of attitude? Why would it change after a title?
lol….
glass half full, glass half empty….
Even more hated than Baron Davis, and the refs?
Condoning?
So Melo finally gets a triple double and this blog goes meh. Really? meh? like it was against the Celtics you know? Well still meh. We were missing Amare and Lin you know. Wishing I could channel my thcj voice here: MEH!!! lol you fans are cold.
Disgusting.
Point guards are easy to replace?? Huh??
Geez you know Lin very tradeble asset. I guessing Ainge would trade Rondo for Lin, Fields and probably Shump which salary wise should actually match next year. With Rondo I say Knicks would be elite team given his defense and how he runs a team.
Come playoff time – Novak still very slow off screen. Teams will stick too him like glue. He so one dimensional it’s not funny. I would take Kyle Korver any day over him.
Don’t get me wrong – love Novak to death given the way he play for Knicks this year, but that all he give you is 3pt shooting nothing else.
I’m with you. Melo flat out styled on the C’s and may have been outscored by Pierce, but outplayed him and got the W.
yep do you need the list? like I said deepest position in the league.
I keep hoping, hoping against hope, even… Every time Novak went to the basket to box out I screamed out in my head (yes, a contradiction) “JUST GRAB ONE BOARD OVER SOMEBODY, YOU’RE 6’10!” But alas, a single solitary muscle in his upper torso, Steve Novak has naught.
A Nuggets fan is never satisfied…
Yep well Lin still not able to go left, too much turnover…. they all have their flaws but If I had a choice I’d take Novak over Lin. Plus guess what he is only good at one thing and most likely will never get hurt. Furthermore Lin’s style of play will make him a part time player, he can’t keep taking all those hits and play full seasons. There’s a reason pg’s play on the perimeter.
Yep well Lin still not able to go left, too much turnover…. they all have their flaws but If I had a choice I’d take Novak over Lin. Plus guess what he is only good at one thing and most likely will never get hurt. Furthermore Lin’s style of play will make him a part time player, he can’t keep taking all those hits and play full seasons. There’s a reason pg’s play on the perimeter..
Neither of them guarded each other very much. Pierce played an amazing game and got an incredible whistle. The Celtics were extremely hot, too. Bradley and Rondo a combined 7-10 from 3?
You could easily flip this thing around and say that if the Celtics get 43 from Pierce, a great whistle(+17 fts), and 7 3s from their starting back-court, they’re probably going to win 99 out of 100 times.
Not only have they been the hottest team in the league, they’ve beaten the tops teams. They’ve been far and away the best defense in the NBA postbreak, the Knicks just put 118 on them without a point guard capable of entering the paint and without their second and third best scorers. It’s all pretty much insane.
@241 it may be the deepest position in the league but it’s still easier to find a one-dimensional, deadeye 3-point shooter -especially when you tell them they can line up on a good team with Melo, Amare & Lin. Shawne Williams led the league in 3-point shooting most of last year. We’ll see what happens. I think there’s a good chance the Knicks can keep 2/3 of Lin, Novak & J.R. and I can pretty much guarantee it will be Lin plus one of the others. (unless they swing a deal with Nash, instead). J.R. is more likely to get a strong offer from someone, so if I had to guess, Lin & Novak will both be back. We shall see…
I guess I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to see a little more enthusiasm after a game like that. I know it’s not a playoff win, but it is something this team can build some confidence from. Right now i love its chances of running the table. Now Atlanta and Orlando need to cooperate.
Also, I’m a Knicks fan whether you like it or not.
Complaining about Novak’s game tonight is really, truly ridiculous. Go take a walk, get some fresh air, and look at the freakin’ box score again!
lol hey that’s why they call him role player and not superstar, if Chandler could create his own shot he’ll be in the top 5. Same way if Novak could board he’ll be a hall of famer, still can be though. Its not his role. Hey but if Bowen got in for defense, i say Novak has a chance with his shooting. Hey Miller and Allen already did right.
Great performances by Melo, Novak and 1st half JR. Bibby quietly gave us some great minutes. Now do we root Orlando or Boston tomm?? I really hate Boston but Orlando more likely to collapse
great win, Melo was incredible and of course Smith/Novak. somehow we just won a game against Boston where Mike Bibby was our 5th best player, great win.
triple double for our hero!
Right and that’s the difference between him and a guy like Bonner — who can defend a little bit in the post, grab rebounds and not paralyze the offense if he can’t get his shot off.
Some teams find ways to get great role players like that. Novak has to shoot so well to be an asset. If he’s a 37-38 percent 3pt shooter you can’t afford to have him on the floor very long.
really?? you think its much easier to find a one dimensional deadeye 3-point shooter, wait , AS GOOD AS NOVAK. are you kidding me? Novak at a point was averaging almost 50% from 3, do you know how historic that is. It’s almost like he is the Michael Jordan of 3pt shooters. I’m sorry but I respectfully disagree.
To Novak’s credit, his defense is almost passable at times. He gets his hands in there on occasion and doesn’t give up dunks every time he’s stuck on the perimeter. He’s just offers no resistance inside.
Pretty surprising that Melo is not getting a bit more attention here. Kind of like the topic no one wants to touch. Let me go out on a limb: Melo has been the best player in the NBA for the last 14 or15 games.
Ive been meaning to post something positive about Melo (only saw parts of the 2nd half, plan on watching full game soon) but Im still trying to comprehend how someone actually believes Novak is more valuable than Lin, deserves the full mid-level and is harder to replace on this team than Lin….
If Novak can shoot like this moving forward he’ll be the greatest 3pt shooter of all time because his shots per minute is pretty high.
If somehow Novak and Smith come back next year there were will be more nights like this which is pretty incredible to think about — having two of the most prolific 3 pt shooters on the same bench.
Owen and co. are waiting for his next bad game to chime in. Cowards.
Atl has a tough schedule, forgot about them…so unpredictable have beaten Chicago Oklahoma and Miami this year but Can lose to Detroit. If we handle our biz, btw Orlando Atlanta and Boston something has to give for 6th or better…I hope. We have clinched the playoffs with that win in my mind…looking at schedules.
This is getting a little scary.
I’ll make it easy for you, say you inserted Mike James for Lin earlier in the season; we possible sit here with Jamesanity. All I’m saying is having the best 3pt shooter in the league by far is a little more valuable than a 15-20 pg, where pg is the deepest position in the league.
“Owen and co. are waiting for his next bad game to chime in. Cowards.”
You are a really strange dude….
Yeah, ok.
those teams all have 36 wins, and we have 29 losses. even if we win out, 2 wins from each of them and we’re in 6th. chances are pretty huge we play Miami in the 2/7 matchup, they probably have a bigger chance to move out of that pairing (to 1) then we do.
Sorry, you’re nuts. Mike James doesnt lead this team to a 7 game winning streak. There is no Steve Novak w/o Linsanity btw since Novak is totally dependent on his teammates setting him up and his great play started when Lin took over and the Knicks finally had a PG capable of setting others up.
Oh I forgot to add, Lin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike James
I cosign Melo being the best player in the NBA since Woodson came in, the guy just had hall of fame games against the Bulls, Heat, and Celtics in a little over a week. Also, if Chandler can keep stepping up like today on offense, this team is capable of beating anyone, even without lin
It’s long odds after Orlando’s win last night. Memphis might rest in the finale and they get Boston tomorrow on a b2b. Celtics might be resting a bunch of guys, too.
But if none of those teams finish with 29 wins there’s still a chance Miami overtakes Chicago.
No non these teams have to give. Basically you asking for one these team to go 1-4 and Knicks going 5-0. Then also winning tiebreaker.
Lin >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all but roughly 15 pg’s in the NBA
Lin is not an All-Star type player yet but right now he is a very good starting caliber NBA PG who you would hope hasnt reached his peak yet. Lin at 5 mil/yr is a bargain. Novak at 5 mil/yr is a huge mistake that someone like Isiah would make as a GM.
Right, it seems that way but you have four possible scenarios to avoid playing Miami. I have to think that there’s at least a decent chance one of those scenarios plays out.
I think the point Gideon is making is that there’s a chance that we could be looking at diminishing returns with Lin and Melo, whereas Novak is out-of-this-world efficient in his very small role. A role that’s perfect for what the team needs.
With Lin, we’ve yet to really see him embrace the idea that he could be really good playing off Melo much of the time. He seems to want to control the offense at all times.
Guys, who cares if we play Miami in the 1st round. Dont get me wrong of course Id rather get the 6th seed or even play the Bulls but shit a 1st round series vs the Heat should be fun as hell.
Unfortunately it will be real difficult to win more than 1 game vs them but still Id look forward to the challenge. The Knicks are not winning the title this year so hell lets at least give the Heat a really good scare in the 1st round.
The Knicks already have the tie breaker against Orlando. If we beat ATL we’ll have the tie breaker against them. It’s not inconceivable to end the season on a losing streak and looking at Orlando’s schedule and their roster, it’s at least 50/50 they go 1-4, …I think the bigger if is us winning out. The one win they will def. get is the tanking Bobcats, so once Orlando beats someone not named the Bobcats (and take a quick peek at how ATL is doing) then we can start tanking for 8th =). Don’t think Miami is overtaking Chicago looking at the schedules / tie breakers
He seemed pretty content before he got hurt since they were 6-1 under Woodson with some really good wins where he had a huge impact in the 4th quarter.
Melo and Lin seem to really get along and like each other so Im not worried at all about them playing together. To me they are a much better fit than Amar’e with Melo.
I’m possibly the biggest Lin “hater” on this board and I fully endorse this. Novak is the kind of player that can be replaced every year, Shawne Williams was doing that just last year for the Knicks and he sucks now. Lin should be the PG of the future unless Nash becomes available, but ruru is right that Lin needs to learn to blend in with Melo, not the other way around as D’Antoni wanted earlier in the year.
Knicks just shot 56.8% FG 59.4% 3pt and 88.2% FT and we only won by 8 at home. This should be 20pt blowout not almost nailbiter at the end. I don’t anyone on this board with them being 7th or 8th seed would bet significant amount money for Knicks win 1st round playoff.
that was only the second triple double of Melo’s career, first was in 2007 in a loss. he’s got to be playing the best ball of his life the last few weeks, so impressive.
really now?? and what are the Knicks record without their all world pg who is the only one capable of setting people up?. Look Lin’s greatest assest is not setting people up, its actually attacking off the pnr which opened up the passing lanes and yeah he is actually bad at passing due to his tunnel vision. Like I said earlier in the season, Dantoni needed a pg like Lin or Nash to win. On this team with Melo and Amare. Lin’s role???? is not really required, its simply a luxury. Other can attack of the dribble as effectively as he does. yeah so on our team actually Mike James = Lin.
I definitely now believe the Knicks can win out. The 6th seed I dont think is out of the question yet. But again if the Knicks win out or go 4-1 to finish the season I dont care who they play I will just be thrilled with the way they finished the season.
Any win vs. the a-holes from Beantown is HUGE, fuck Paul Pierce. It was nice to see them limping out of the Garden. I hope they lose in the first round because of this game. They are a gritty, savvy group, though, and I do like Doc Rivers.
Garnett just doesn’t miss, does he?
Melo is, as Kobe put it, a Ba-a-a-a-d Boy!!! Was with a friend from Boston last night who was down on Melo, glad he has that performance to chew on for a while.
Also, how in the world did anyone watch that Miami game and come away scared of the Heat? The Knicks played terrible and are still dealing with a bunch of injuries, yet they were right there and could have easily pulled it off until Melo just got totally exhausted and started jacking up 3′s. Chandler, Melo, and Shump are perfect defensive counters for the Heat, and Melo can score on anyone.
Ruru, I’m actually with you on the whole Lin being humble in the press corps but sometimes a bit ‘too into himself’ on the court. He can’t have free reign to just shoot when he wants with Amare and Melo in the game or have blinders when driving to the hole, I thought he started to get better at that, but he’s definitely a work in progress. If he can take a Rondo like approach, true pass first score second point guard — I think he’ll be a HUGE plus for us going forward. I believe he can do it.
yep, they’re 14-5 under Woodson, so that would mean 18-6 or 19-5 under Woodson, all without any of the top 50 point guards in the league.
I don’t want to get swept again..that was not fun.
Very impressed with Woodson’s play calling coming out of timeout in late-game situation. Once again he called a timeout when boston was cutting lead down into single digits with less then 6 minutes left and drew up a perfect screen play to open up melo for a 12-foot jumper, which of course he nailed. Great execution after another well drawn-up play…he is like the anti-D’antoni in this sense.
Its funny, I went to BR looking for an easy case to make on why sign Lin over Novak, but there really isn’t one.
It comes down to the value of a starting PG vs a bench 3 pt specialist, and what you’re losing by letting either of these guys walk. If we assume that it takes the full MLE to sign either Lin or Novak, we’d have really no avenue to replace the other. So, do you want to go into the season with Toney Douglas as your starting point guard again, or go in with a lesser version of Steve Novak as your three point specialist?
I don’t really see it as much of a difficult question when pondered from that angle. Hopefully, we can get one to take the 2.1, or split the MLE, or something.
I think asking Knick go 5-0 with 4 away games is going bigger challenge. One off-night by Melo and we going to doomed. Knicks still only 11-18 on the road and 3-4 under Woodson. The ref give home team more calls and travel always affects body.
lol glad to see Abbey fuel to my fire.
Heating up at the right team…there is not one team in the East not named the Heat that wants to see us in the 1st round.
Well, it’s up there considering the lack of support and the opponent. This actually reminds me of how he was playing at the end of the 2006 season and the beginning of the 2007 season.
In 2007, he was the MVP of the league before the suspension and the Iverson trade– 32.1 ppg, 595 ts, over 4 apg and 7 rebounds (25 games to start the year).
He started out 2009 much the same–over 30 ppg on really efficient shooting. Then he got hit with the elbow and wrist injuries
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/1975/year/2010/carmelo-anthony
He’s healthy now and feeling good. But he’s played like this before for long stretches.
lol glad to see Abbey adding fuel to my fire.
Yeah thats the whole point. Hell I LOVE Novak too and hope we keep him but sorry no way in hell he should get the mid-level which will mean losing Lin.
Oh yeah I feel you.
well there’s your answer NOVAK > LIN.
Those games on the road are at Cleveland (?), at New Jersey and at Bobcats (???) all winnable…the only tough road game is at Atlanta. We host the Clippers at home, hopefully with a healthy Amare
hmmm… a scenario that makes Dolan see the team…
…I mean, the sanctions would be hell, buuuuut…
Its really 3 away games. They play tomorrow night in Newark–a “road” game. And we know how overwhelming that Atlanta “homecourt” is for us.
The issue is getting enough losses out of one of the rest of the teams, and it just doesnt seem possible when at some point they’d have their lives on the line facing the possibility of playing Miami or Chicago.
Lin is the key to (assuming we can retain at least one of Novak or SMith) competing for an NBA championship.
If he uses his great ability in the lane to get Amar’e, Melo and the role players going. If he defers to Melo often — playing off the opportunities he creates by taking open shots and driving against rotating defenders. If he manages the game so that his scoring comes last (which will greatly improve his scoring efficiency because the opportunities will be easier) then this team can beat any team.
no, I don’t agree with you, an actual PG would be a huge help to this team in many games. I don’t think Lin is as good as his fanboys think, but he would be a huge weapon for NY right now that they could really use depending on the matchup. maybe they could finally phase Fields mostly out of the rotation then, what a waste of oxygen that guy is.
oh, and anyone here who was arguing for Fields over Smith and Shumpert a few weeks ago, could you laugh at yourself now, please? thanks.
Who do we root for tomorrow night, Orlando or Boston? I say Boston, the Magic have a much tougher schedule and can lose to anyone right now, plus, we have the tiebreaker.
I’m sorry I love Lin too but maybe I’d agree if Dantoni was the coach. Look at our record without Lin, yeah he is replaceable. His best skill can be replaced, which is attacking off the pnr. Novak on the hand is arguably the best standstill shooter in the league and Barkley just said a moment ago, shooting is the hardest thing to learn. I’m sorry if it were up to me Novak gets the full mid level and Lin gets bi annual or we lose him.
Doing what he did against Deng/Bulls, Pierce/Celtics and Lebron/Heat all over the course of a few days against the best defensive players and best defensive teams in the league in back-to-back-to-back-to-back (I could keep going) fashion is what is really impressive to me….the stats are great, but truly ridiculous when looked at in context. He may have had the highest scoring games of any player against the Heat and Bulls all within a week while doing so efficiently. Dude is in videogame Beast Mode and hope it stays that way. He performs like this in the playoffs…and no one will be talking about early season struggles (well maybe Owen)….
Definitely Boston, Knicks have no chance at all at winning the division.
I agree that we need an actual pg but my point is it doesn’t have to be Lin. We can get something passable from the pg junkyard just like we got Lin, Novak on the other hand is more valuable to keep and thus my point. Signing Novak should be a priority over keeping Lin.
Guys, you do remember that the Knicks went 6-1 with Lin as the PG when Woodson took over and in a couple of those big road wins it was Lin who took over and dominated the 4th quarter right??
I have no doubt Lin can play with Melo. They both seem to really enjoy playing with each other.
Woodson realizing this and is phasing Fields out more and more each game…the only players our starting 2 guard played less minutes than were ailing/sometimes mentally challenged Baron Davis and just back from injury Jeffrightened. Best news about Amare coming back is that we can play him even less. It’s really sad…I mean I never thought he was as good a player as Shump or Smith, but what the hell happened to this guy, he has the self-confidence of a turtle
agreed, boston would likely have tie breaker over NYK even if Knicks beat NJ tomorrow….head-to-head would be 2-2, division record would be tie each team having gone 8-6, and then I believe next tie breaker to decide it would be conf record which boston beats us in.
Who starts at PG then? Baron Davis? Mike Bibby? Toney Douglas?
Here’s your list of available FA PGs this offseason:
Deron Williams,Player Option ($17.8 million)
Steve Nash, Unrestricted
Aaron Brooks, Restricted ($3.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Raymond Felton, Unrestricted
Kirk Hinrich, Unrestricted
Jason Kidd, Unrestricted
Andre Miller, Unrestricted
Chauncey Billups, Unrestricted
Jameer Nelson, Player Option ($7.8 million)
D.J. Augustin, Restricted ($4.4 million Qualifying Offer)
Jason Terry, Dallas Mavericks, Unrestricted
George Hill, Indiana Pacers, Restricted ($3.1 million Qualifying Offer)
Jordan Farmar, New Jersey Nets, Player Option ($4.3 million)
Leandro Barbosa, Unrestricted
Beno Udrih, Milwaukee Bucks Player Option ($7.4 million)
Goran Dragic, Houston Rockets Unrestricted*
Jerryd Bayless, Restricted ($4.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Derek Fisher, Oklahoma City Thunder Unrestricted
Randy Foye, Unrestricted
Mo Williams, Player Option ($8.5 million)
Jonny Flynn, Unrestricted
Keyon Dooling,Unrestricted
Ishmael Smith, Orlando Magic, Unrestricted*
Ramon Sessions, Player Option ($4.6 million)
None of those guys is either a) taking a biennial or b) a certifiable NBA starter.
I think it’s rather early to draw this conclusion, especially from someone who’s essentially a lottery rookie. Unless you’re running the triangle (which isn’t out of play since Phil Jackson is still out there), this team can definitely use Lin. Definitely Lin needs to improve upon finding guys when he penetrates, but his assists numbers as they stand now are nothing to sneeze at. I think with a full offseason + training camp he’ll improve.
http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-118-celtics-110/
Recap’s up!
You’re seriously underselling Lin. Even if he was off the proverbial scrap-heap, he’s 23, cheapo(ish) salary, a virtual rookie (who was once considered by some the 2nd best PG behind Wall in that yr’s draft), a quick learner and significant potential. He doesn’t need to be the 20 and 9 All-Star-ish dude he was during Linsanity with this team @ full strength. You can’t see him developing into a 15-18 point, 7 to 9 asst guy? And if he improves his man-D…
Seem like alot people have forgotten that. I thought we destoryed Indy who number 3 seed with struggling Melo offensively.
You have watch Lin play defense under Woodson vs MDA. During Linsanity I could not stand type defense Lin was playing. He giving huge amount space and constant off the ball double team letting his guy get open for 3′s. 7 games under Woodson, I we pleasantly how big difference he played defensively. Much tight man to man defense and doing much better job on boxing out and team rebounding. He had nice block of 3pt shot in critical stop in 4th of Philly game.
Also, ff Melo play like this offensively, Lin of course will defer to him.
Ruru at 231–the point of being a fan? Really? I’ve been following this team since 1967. Probably watched every game this year. I don’t think being a fan of a team means being a fan of one particular player though. Personally, I love Melo and have for a long time. But when the Knicks play poor D, I generally do not enjoy the game even if they rain down threes and win. In fact, it reminded me a little of some of the games they won under D’Antoni–miss the threes, lose the game. Like I said to Doug, glad everyone loved the game and I’m thrilled we won.