Eternal OptiKnist: And i just wanted to point out WITH DATA that D’Antoni teams (at least the lat two years he was there, based on the data i could find) were average and slighly above average defensively based on the team rankings.Since i posted those numbers they have not yet been refuted.As a business analyst i’ve always found it so funny for people to quote points allowed by those Phoenix teams as an argument for horrible defense.Peel the onion just one layer folks.

On the whole, his Suns teams were slighlty below average in the regular season, and that was with one of the game’s best defenders in the NBA in his prime (Marion).

The Suns were average during the regular season only because they induced teams into their pace, which turned into a lot of bad, rushed shots.
Teams that went half-court against the Suns destroyed them, which is why they were so atrocious defensively in the playoffs.

Do me a favor and post the Suns playoff efficiency numbers the years MDA coached. It’s sort of shocking how bad they were.

IF they were simply below average in the playoffs they’d have two rings, that’s how great Nash/Amar’e and shooters were in that system, even against the best defensive teams.

Please, check it out yourself because my post didn’t go through:http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2005.html

Eternal OptiKnist: I’m glad that’s been pointed out..I feel that us ‘smart’ NY fans are suffering from short memories a bit. I agree with you on the inability to make things work offensively. The defense after we added chandler was quite good by the #s before woody took over last year..it was the offense that sucked. Was it the lack of a PG? Was it him pouting? That confounded me..

Again, this rhetoric plays against MDA.

The offense improved after MDA left not because Woodson scrapped everything, but because Woodson kept the things that worked and then added things that used his player’s strengths.

He starting employing Carmelo Anthony post-ups into the offense, which resulted in one of the highest assisted percentage plays in the NBA last year.

Juany8:
What everyone is ignoring is that only 16 teams make the playoffs. If the Suns were an average team defensively in the entire league, they were probably amongst the worst defensive teams in the playoffs. When you are supposed to be a contender, being average defensively isn’t very acceptable. There’s also the fact that the Knicks were the best defensive team in the league after Woodson took over, and they are continuing that this season. So unless Woodson is an outright fantastic, top of the line coach, D’Antoni is looking pretty bad. Doesn’t help that Woodson has been excellent at managing egos on this team and D’Antoni was terrible. Forget about Melo, who could honestly say they would have foreseen JR playing at the ridiculous level he is right now? You really think JR Smith was happy with D’Antoni last season?

Right. Call me a Carmelo Anthony worshiper, but I know that a re-commitment to defense did not, by itself, change the Knicks from the 10th or so best defensive team to the best defensive team in the NBA.

The Knicks defensive improvement under Woodson was akin to adding a couple of great defensive players, and that did not happen last year (in fact, Shumpert and Chandler missed time)

Nor did Carmelo Anthony alone change things on offense.

So what happened?

Well, as a few of us said at the time, there was a new commitment to defense and extra energy from everybody on the roster. Carmelo Anthony, perhaps lacking self-awareness or perhaps saying the things leaders should say, in a way took responsibility for past transgressions by admitting he hadn’t been giving it the extra effort that is needed to play great defense.

But, again Eternal, it just so happens that everyone played better when MDA left.

How is that not an indictment on the head coach?

yep, Hollinger talked about that today too, that the Phoenix teams were average defensively, not awful as people seem to think.

my problem with D’Antoni was actually more on the offensive end. for a guy who was touted as the greatest offensive basketball coach ever (seriously, Bill Simmons wrote this in his book), he was stunningly inflexible when it came to fitting personnel into his system, as well as seemingly entirely incapable of diagramming a successful play out of a time out.

Yeah, agreed. The defense was, what, top ten in the league when D’Antoni was the coach, right? The offense was much more annoying last season.

jon abbey: yep, Hollinger talked about that today too, that the Phoenix teams were average defensively, not awful as people seem to think.

my problem with D’Antoni was actually more on the offensive end. for a guy who was touted as the greatest offensive basketball coach ever (seriously, Bill Simmons wrote this in his book), he was stunningly inflexible when it came to fitting personnel into his system, as well as seemingly entirely incapable of diagramming a successful play out of a time out.

I’m glad that’s been pointed out..I feel that us ‘smart’ NY fans are suffering from short memories a bit. I agree with you on the inability to make things work offensively. The defense after we added chandler was quite good by the #s before woody took over last year..it was the offense that sucked. Was it the lack of a PG? Was it him pouting? That confounded me..

Eternal OptiKnist: And i just wanted to point out WITH DATA that D’Antoni teams (at least the lat two years he was there, based on the data i could find) were average and slighly above average defensively based on the team rankings.Since i posted those numbers they have not yet been refuted.As a business analyst i’ve always found it so funny for people to quote points allowed by those Phoenix teams as an argument for horrible defense.Peel the onion just one layer folks.

yep, Hollinger talked about that today too, that the Phoenix teams were average defensively, not awful as people seem to think.

my problem with D’Antoni was actually more on the offensive end. for a guy who was touted as the greatest offensive basketball coach ever (seriously, Bill Simmons wrote this in his book), he was stunningly inflexible when it came to fitting personnel into his system, as well as seemingly entirely incapable of diagramming a successful play out of a time out.

2. Even if Kobe isn’t exactly Ray Alan, he’d still space the floor just as much. Kobe is so feared that his defenders won’t want to help out to strongly off him. Also, even at his age he can still drive when defenders aggressively close out on him.

3. Hollinger points out that Artest is still a good spot up 3-point shooter.

4. D’Antoni seems to do better when his vets serve as leaders. He easily has that in both Kobe and Nash. Even though I think Woodson seems to be a better coach than D’Antoni, his job is still much easier with Jason Kidd to help out Chandler, as well as a much more mature Melo.

5. Howard has developed a Tim Duncan-style bank-shot. It obviously doesn’t space the floor like a 3-point shooter, but it’s not as if Howard necessarily clogs the lane because he can’t do anything outside the paint. That was one of the problems last year, as Chandler was not seen as capable as doing any damage outside the basket area (though now he seems to be trying the mid-range on occasion).

6. On a similar note, take a look at the highlights from the Miami-Grizzlies game. There are at least 3 plays I saw with Marc Gasol serving as the screener and then passing to either Randolph for a layup or a 3-pointer. Gasol might be a step slower than his younger brother, but it could still work with him.

The Honorable Cock Jowles: This sounds like total conjecture to me. No one is safe in the NBA. I’m sure that that in New Orleans, there was a dude just like you who had a lot of buddies who liked Chris Paul and “embraced” him or whatever, but it doesn’t stop a franchise from making decisions, and often bad ones.

OK, i stand corrected, aside from atlanta doing something contrary to common sense, the city’s wishes, and the direction of the roster, they wont trade josh smith for gasol. i guess its also possible that danny ainge starts smoking crackm tonight and trades rondo for jj redick and big baby davis too, but i think common sense can rule out extremely irrational moves, like the hawks trading josh smith. you are right my firend, i suppose anything is possible. thank you for noting that