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	<title>Comments on: First Game Wrap Up</title>
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		<title>By: Caleb</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/first-game-wrap-up/#comment-255633</link>
		<dc:creator>Caleb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=812#comment-255633</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh yeah, oops -- wasn&#039;t counting Baron Davis there. Still a very good deal for LA - compared to Randolph, they got a better player with a shorter and smaller deal. 
(Guessing that if Walsh was willing to take back Mobley and/or Thomas, deal might have happened.)

As to choice between Camby and the restricted FAs... hey, it&#039;s a bird in hand. Deng and Iguodala were best fits, but those teams were extremely likely to match. Plus, now Clippers have flexibility in 2010, instead of locking themselves into the same roster for 5 years. And for this year and next - Camby is probably as good or better than any of the options.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah, oops &#8212; wasn&#8217;t counting Baron Davis there. Still a very good deal for LA &#8211; compared to Randolph, they got a better player with a shorter and smaller deal.<br />
(Guessing that if Walsh was willing to take back Mobley and/or Thomas, deal might have happened.)</p>
<p>As to choice between Camby and the restricted FAs&#8230; hey, it&#8217;s a bird in hand. Deng and Iguodala were best fits, but those teams were extremely likely to match. Plus, now Clippers have flexibility in 2010, instead of locking themselves into the same roster for 5 years. And for this year and next &#8211; Camby is probably as good or better than any of the options.</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/first-game-wrap-up/#comment-255631</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=812#comment-255631</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;As far as Camby being a better deal for the Clips — of course it is! Camby is a million times better than Randolph. He’s older, but his deal is a year shorter, and he makes several million dollars less. In fact, with Camby, the Clips STILL have enough cap space to offer $16 million to Luol Deng, if they so choose…&quot;

The Clippers don&#039;t have the cap space to sign another impact free agent. Because they didn&#039;t unload Mobley or Thomas they only have about $3 million left to spend.

Plus, the Clippers were in the market for a PF to replace Brand. Randolph was their first choice over Camby. Camby was a consolation prize because the Nuggets took the same offer the Knicks turned down. If the Knicks had offered to take on the Clipper&#039;s dead weight, how could they not have done the Randolph deal over the Camby one? Then they really could have gone out and put pressure on the 76ers to put up Elton Brand money to resign Igudala.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As far as Camby being a better deal for the Clips — of course it is! Camby is a million times better than Randolph. He’s older, but his deal is a year shorter, and he makes several million dollars less. In fact, with Camby, the Clips STILL have enough cap space to offer $16 million to Luol Deng, if they so choose…&#8221;</p>
<p>The Clippers don&#8217;t have the cap space to sign another impact free agent. Because they didn&#8217;t unload Mobley or Thomas they only have about $3 million left to spend.</p>
<p>Plus, the Clippers were in the market for a PF to replace Brand. Randolph was their first choice over Camby. Camby was a consolation prize because the Nuggets took the same offer the Knicks turned down. If the Knicks had offered to take on the Clipper&#8217;s dead weight, how could they not have done the Randolph deal over the Camby one? Then they really could have gone out and put pressure on the 76ers to put up Elton Brand money to resign Igudala.</p>
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		<title>By: Caleb</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/first-game-wrap-up/#comment-255628</link>
		<dc:creator>Caleb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=812#comment-255628</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know Randolph and Marbury aren&#039;t the same -- my point was that (unlike many people) I don&#039;t think Randolph causes problems by still being on the roster, as long as we move him before 2010. And if all we&#039;re going to get is a second-rounder, I&#039;m confident that wasn&#039;t our last chance to move him.  

Randolph doesn&#039;t have to take minutes from David Lee -- that&#039;s what the coach is there for, to decide who plays more. I have faith in Mike D.  

As far as Camby being a better deal for the Clips -- of course it is!  Camby is a million times better than Randolph. He&#039;s older, but his deal is a year shorter, and he makes several million dollars less. In fact, with Camby, the Clips STILL have enough cap space to offer $16 million to Luol Deng, if they so choose...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know Randolph and Marbury aren&#8217;t the same &#8212; my point was that (unlike many people) I don&#8217;t think Randolph causes problems by still being on the roster, as long as we move him before 2010. And if all we&#8217;re going to get is a second-rounder, I&#8217;m confident that wasn&#8217;t our last chance to move him.  </p>
<p>Randolph doesn&#8217;t have to take minutes from David Lee &#8212; that&#8217;s what the coach is there for, to decide who plays more. I have faith in Mike D.  </p>
<p>As far as Camby being a better deal for the Clips &#8212; of course it is!  Camby is a million times better than Randolph. He&#8217;s older, but his deal is a year shorter, and he makes several million dollars less. In fact, with Camby, the Clips STILL have enough cap space to offer $16 million to Luol Deng, if they so choose&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/first-game-wrap-up/#comment-255625</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=812#comment-255625</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Face it — Denver had a better deal to offer. That’s all.&quot;

I&#039;d face it if The Clippers had no interest in Randolph, but they actually did have interest. More interest because they offered the same package but they offered it for Randolph first. Plus, Denver didn&#039;t have a better deal to offer. The Knicks could have taken back Tim Thomas and Catino Mobley if they had offered. Camby will end up costing the Clippers more than Randolph could have.

And the difference between Randolph and Marbury is significant. Marbury you can send home much much easier and deal at the deadline or let sunset. Randolph you are stuck with for 3 more years UNLESS he is playing major minutes and gets his 20-10 for another team to be suckered into taking him.

As Ben R. stated earlier, Randolph not only is a bad player that is impossible to root for, he also plays the same position as the Knicks best and most popular player. All of the Knicks young prospects are forwards. The fact that his fat butt huffs it up the court at all not only ruins the game for the fans, but also the players and the future of the franchise.

Welcome to the eighth year of the Layden era...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Face it — Denver had a better deal to offer. That’s all.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d face it if The Clippers had no interest in Randolph, but they actually did have interest. More interest because they offered the same package but they offered it for Randolph first. Plus, Denver didn&#8217;t have a better deal to offer. The Knicks could have taken back Tim Thomas and Catino Mobley if they had offered. Camby will end up costing the Clippers more than Randolph could have.</p>
<p>And the difference between Randolph and Marbury is significant. Marbury you can send home much much easier and deal at the deadline or let sunset. Randolph you are stuck with for 3 more years UNLESS he is playing major minutes and gets his 20-10 for another team to be suckered into taking him.</p>
<p>As Ben R. stated earlier, Randolph not only is a bad player that is impossible to root for, he also plays the same position as the Knicks best and most popular player. All of the Knicks young prospects are forwards. The fact that his fat butt huffs it up the court at all not only ruins the game for the fans, but also the players and the future of the franchise.</p>
<p>Welcome to the eighth year of the Layden era&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: caleb</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/first-game-wrap-up/#comment-255619</link>
		<dc:creator>caleb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=812#comment-255619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From Denver&#039;s perspective -- it&#039;s not mystifying. They&#039;re rebuilding.

They have a team that won 50 games and got an 8-seed. They had no draft pick and no financial flexibility to improve by adding players. They have young improving guys and old declining guys; overall, they&#039;re spinning their wheels. 

Meanwhile, once they give Kleiza an extension in the $6 million range, they&#039;ll have $45 million a year committed to the frontcourt, through 2011, when Camby is 37. By clearing him out - even for nothing -- next summer when Iverson expires they&#039;ll have a core of Anthony, Smith, Kleiza and Nene -- plus cap room to sign a big addition. They take a step back this year, but otherwise they die a slow death for 3-4 years. 

IMO, they&#039;re in better shape today than yesterday. But it could be even better shape. What DOES perplex me -- was that really the best offer? Camby could help a lot of teams, surely brought back at least a first-rounder. The Nugs would have saved less money -- taking back a contract for this year -- but still.... They must be in real financial straits, like Phoenix.

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Denver&#8217;s perspective &#8212; it&#8217;s not mystifying. They&#8217;re rebuilding.</p>
<p>They have a team that won 50 games and got an 8-seed. They had no draft pick and no financial flexibility to improve by adding players. They have young improving guys and old declining guys; overall, they&#8217;re spinning their wheels. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, once they give Kleiza an extension in the $6 million range, they&#8217;ll have $45 million a year committed to the frontcourt, through 2011, when Camby is 37. By clearing him out &#8211; even for nothing &#8212; next summer when Iverson expires they&#8217;ll have a core of Anthony, Smith, Kleiza and Nene &#8212; plus cap room to sign a big addition. They take a step back this year, but otherwise they die a slow death for 3-4 years. </p>
<p>IMO, they&#8217;re in better shape today than yesterday. But it could be even better shape. What DOES perplex me &#8212; was that really the best offer? Camby could help a lot of teams, surely brought back at least a first-rounder. The Nugs would have saved less money &#8212; taking back a contract for this year &#8212; but still&#8230;. They must be in real financial straits, like Phoenix.</p>
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		<title>By: caleb</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/first-game-wrap-up/#comment-255616</link>
		<dc:creator>caleb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=812#comment-255616</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Walsh whiffed, but I just don&#039;t see the stakes being too high. Randolph doesn&#039;t need to be moved this summer -- only by 2010. For all the reasons I laid out in the Marbury post -- there is no such thing (really) as chemistry, or addition by subtraction. If we get the same deal in a year as now, it will be an irritant, not a major problem. 

In the meantime, short of a major injury, Randolph&#039;s value isn&#039;t going down, even if he only plays 25 minutes a games as our part-time center. Two reasons:

a) His contract will be shorter. Next summer, teams are committing to 2 years and $33 million, instead of 3 and $48 million. As we saw in the Nuggets trade, money is a huge issue for many teams.

b) Right now, lots of teams are keeping options open for 2010. But as time goes by, many will sign (or re-sign) players, ending their chances of having cap space that summer. At that point, they won&#039;t care so much whether they&#039;re at the cap or $8 million over it.

No one&#039;s ever giving up much for Randolph, but we will almost certainly have other chances to swap him for a second-rounder... at least, we&#039;ll be able to do it by taking back a Mobley-type deal (ending in 2010)... or in a worst-case scenario, throwing in or own second-rounder, something like that. 

Face it -- Denver had a better deal to offer. That&#039;s all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walsh whiffed, but I just don&#8217;t see the stakes being too high. Randolph doesn&#8217;t need to be moved this summer &#8212; only by 2010. For all the reasons I laid out in the Marbury post &#8212; there is no such thing (really) as chemistry, or addition by subtraction. If we get the same deal in a year as now, it will be an irritant, not a major problem. </p>
<p>In the meantime, short of a major injury, Randolph&#8217;s value isn&#8217;t going down, even if he only plays 25 minutes a games as our part-time center. Two reasons:</p>
<p>a) His contract will be shorter. Next summer, teams are committing to 2 years and $33 million, instead of 3 and $48 million. As we saw in the Nuggets trade, money is a huge issue for many teams.</p>
<p>b) Right now, lots of teams are keeping options open for 2010. But as time goes by, many will sign (or re-sign) players, ending their chances of having cap space that summer. At that point, they won&#8217;t care so much whether they&#8217;re at the cap or $8 million over it.</p>
<p>No one&#8217;s ever giving up much for Randolph, but we will almost certainly have other chances to swap him for a second-rounder&#8230; at least, we&#8217;ll be able to do it by taking back a Mobley-type deal (ending in 2010)&#8230; or in a worst-case scenario, throwing in or own second-rounder, something like that. </p>
<p>Face it &#8212; Denver had a better deal to offer. That&#8217;s all.</p>
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		<title>By: tdm</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/first-game-wrap-up/#comment-255612</link>
		<dc:creator>tdm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=812#comment-255612</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dunleavy was probably at the Knicks game to force Denver&#039;s hand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dunleavy was probably at the Knicks game to force Denver&#8217;s hand.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/first-game-wrap-up/#comment-255593</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=812#comment-255593</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Donnie Walsh screwed up that play. That was a wasted opportunity. Very disappointing.

Bad trade for the Clippers. Wasted their cap space on a dull and uninspired choice who&#039;ll do nothing but waste two years of their franchise (likely Baron&#039;s best two years).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donnie Walsh screwed up that play. That was a wasted opportunity. Very disappointing.</p>
<p>Bad trade for the Clippers. Wasted their cap space on a dull and uninspired choice who&#8217;ll do nothing but waste two years of their franchise (likely Baron&#8217;s best two years).</p>
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		<title>By: mastermind</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/first-game-wrap-up/#comment-255585</link>
		<dc:creator>mastermind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=812#comment-255585</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t see what people&#039;s problems are with Camby and Kaman playing together. Defensively it should be fine- Camby is actually better off guarding 4s than 5s. Less chance he&#039;ll hurt himself on Gasol than Bynum. (Besides, he&#039;s obviously been defending power forwards throughout his career.)

Offensively, it can&#039;t be any worse than having Reggie Evans as your starting power forward, which has somehow coincided with playoff runs for multiple teams. In fact, it&#039;ll be much better, as I&#039;ve actually seen Camby dribble, pass, and hit jumpers.

My only worry is that Clippers management hopes to replicate the success of the last great &#039;twin towers&#039; experiment, as they will be bitterly disappointed upon realizing that the Eddy-Jerome combo is without peer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see what people&#8217;s problems are with Camby and Kaman playing together. Defensively it should be fine- Camby is actually better off guarding 4s than 5s. Less chance he&#8217;ll hurt himself on Gasol than Bynum. (Besides, he&#8217;s obviously been defending power forwards throughout his career.)</p>
<p>Offensively, it can&#8217;t be any worse than having Reggie Evans as your starting power forward, which has somehow coincided with playoff runs for multiple teams. In fact, it&#8217;ll be much better, as I&#8217;ve actually seen Camby dribble, pass, and hit jumpers.</p>
<p>My only worry is that Clippers management hopes to replicate the success of the last great &#8216;twin towers&#8217; experiment, as they will be bitterly disappointed upon realizing that the Eddy-Jerome combo is without peer.</p>
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		<title>By: Owen</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/first-game-wrap-up/#comment-255581</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=812#comment-255581</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am shocked by this trade. And I also agree with everything Ben R said. 

And I also agree it&#039;s  going to be a very interesting scenario for testing various statistical models. 

What Denver is doing mystifies me. Dean Oliver still work there?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am shocked by this trade. And I also agree with everything Ben R said. </p>
<p>And I also agree it&#8217;s  going to be a very interesting scenario for testing various statistical models. </p>
<p>What Denver is doing mystifies me. Dean Oliver still work there?</p>
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