Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, July 24, 2014

First Game Wrap Up

Gallinari:

He was downright awful in the first half. I went back to the play-by-play and compiled his stats at the half: 0-4, 3 TO, 1-1 REB, 3 PF, 1 AST, 0 BLK, 0 STL, 0 PTS

He had 2 turnovers and a foul in his first 3 minutes. He had two shots where he was forcing the action – wild up-and-unders that fooled no one. Gallo he didn’t really show any tenacity outside of the offense. There were a few occasions I felt he gave up on a ball that he might have dove for, and he didn’t do anything spectacular on defense. He made a couple of rookie mistakes, one being the cardinal sin of defense: fouling a player on a fast break and allowing him to make the shot.

Danilo showed positive signs in the second half, and ended with a decent line: 5-11, 4 TO, 4-2 REB, 5 PF, 2 AST, 1 BLK, 0 STL, 14 PTS

He gained confidence with a two handed dunk, and showed an accurate jumpshot. I have to give him credit for going to the hoop a couple of times as well. It’s hard to make assumptions of a player by one half of a summer league game, but I don’t think Gallo is going to be a regular contributor this year. And I’m fine with that, since the team drafted him for the future, not the present. There was enough to like about him, like how he came back from a dreadful first half. He showed ability and confidence. I think it’s going to take him a year before he learns the nuances of the NBA.

Wilson Chandler

Speaking of learning the nuances of the NBA, Wilson Chandler seems to have developed significantly from last year. Not only did he lead the team in scoring (11-21, 2 TO, 26 points) but he was seemingly omnipresent. Chandler had 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, and 2 blocks. When on the floor with Balkman the pair made the Knicks tough defensively, especially on the interior. They had a combined 4 blocks, about the number Zach Randolph would get in about 2 months. “Ill-Will” was certainly the Knicks best player on Monday.

Boxscore here: http://www.nba.com/summerleague2008/games/boxscore.jsp?gameId=1520800013

Renaldo Balkman

Balkman was his usual self, with not much change from last year. As always Balkman was great in pushing the ball up in transition, converted a few baskets around the rim, and played excellent defense. It didn’t bother me that he didn’t attempt a jump shot; what bothered me is that he didn’t make either of his free throws. Balkman would be fine without a mid-range game, but if he can’t hit free throws it really hurts his game.

Mardy Collins

The guy that I would cut in a second had a pretty good game yesterday. Unlike Balkman, Collins hit 8 of his 9 free throw attempts. And while I don’t expect him to go from 60% to 89% from the charity stripe, it’s nice to know that he probably has improved that aspect of his game. (Maybe he can show Balkman his technique.) Collins also hit his only three point attempt. Mardy’s game in the half court consisted of driving into the paint and trying to make things happen. It was a nice improvement, and if he can hit his free throws, an occasional three, and do a better job running the offense, there might be room on this team for him.

Anthony Roberson

Roberson was the surprise of the game. The 6-2 guard scored 22 points on 19 shots, but didn’t have a single assist. He reminded me a bit of Nate Robinson, minus the rebounding, passing, and childish demeanor. Roberson had two stints in the NBA for Memphis and Golden State, and his per minute stats show the same thing: decent scoring no passing. His efficiency (53.2 ts% and 52.6% efg) was good and his 1.5stl/36 was better than average. Quentin Richardson praised Anthony during the telecast saying the youngster was playing very well in practice. While a team could do much worse at the end of their bench, I’m not sure where he fits in on the Knicks’ roster. They have enough shoot first players at this point. On the other hand Roberson clearly has NBA talent, and the team roster might be very different in another year or two.

67 comments on “First Game Wrap Up

  1. Anthony

    It seems as if Walsh and D’antoni think he will contribute immediately. At first it sounds like ‘coachspeak’, but a lot of times executives and coaches have no problem preaching patience. We will see…

  2. David Crockett

    Just turned on the game on NBA TV replay. One thing I’d add about Collins that a buddy pointed out is that he looks like he’s dropped some weight and improved his conditioning.

  3. David Crockett

    As for Roberson: pure gunner. I remember that from his days at U of Florida, playing with David Lee and Matt Walsh. He’s not even a combo guard. He’s a pure SG. He has no feel for offense and his assist numbers bear that out.

    Interestingly, I could see where Cleveland would have some interest in Roberson. His scoring could really help their bench a good bit as a third guard.

  4. Thomas B.

    Mardy Collins has much work to do before he wins me over. I like his size and defense, but when he tries to run the offense or is forced to make something happen with 8 seconds left on the 24, I can clearly see that he was a swing that was moved to point for some reason. I can only think that Temple moved him to point so that they could get a big, strong defender into the backcourt. In college you can go far by disrupting the opposition’s backcourt. Perhaps Mardy has realized that he needs to get his act together if he wants to be on some team’s bench next year. If nothing else, strong summer play should at least make him a decent throw in for a preseason trade.

    Chandler did look very good. He seems to be throwing his name into the hat for significant minutes as a reserve. If Q gets off the a slow start Chandler may even see some starter’s minutes.

    Balkman is what he is. But you are right Mike, he has to improve the FT% or he just can’t be on the floor in the crunch. He isnt strong enough a defender or rebounder to justify leaving him on the floor. I just dont think there is any excuse for a pro player to shoot under 70%. Just about any of use should be able to hit 7 out of 10 FT’s. Hell, I once hit 37 in a row. That isnt impressive but keep in mind, I don’t play ball for a living.

  5. Ess-dog

    Word on the street is that Mike Dunleavy was scouting the Knicks summer league game… could the Randolph trade still be alive and kicking? And does this mean that one of our young’ns will get a one way bus pass with Zach to LA?

  6. jon abbey

    “One thing I’d add about Collins that a buddy pointed out is that he looks like he’s dropped some weight ”

    I posted that twice here already! :)

    Dunleavy was indeed at the game, they showed him in the stands.

  7. Latke

    i was a fan of what i saw from gallinari. He looked very confident shooting off the dribble, which is a much different and more difficult thing than spotting up. He had handle, and he was quicker than i expected. He made a lot of mistakes, but they all seemed to be boneheaded mistakes born out of youth and anxiety. He improved drastically from one half to the next, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see more noticeable improvement as each game goes by.

  8. Ray

    Im done with Mardy….we can package him with Zack for all i care. I think Balk does need to come to Summer LEague and show a jumpshot because if he doesnt then hes just slightly better than Jared Jeffries who has no jumpshot as well. I mean really, he should be a pro and work on that weakness in his game.

  9. Captain Merlin

    Ray, I concur, also in that same general vein, it’s quite appalling just how many players who get decent burn on this current roster who nearly make me piss myself with nervousness and uncertainty everytime they are wide open and about to shoot or lay it in within 3 feet of the hoop. Really, there is no player on this roster who I would trust enough to stake my children’s lives on (if I had any) his making a wide open shot, layup, or dunk even from 3′ in. Scary

  10. Brendan

    You know that guy who has a really ugly breakup with his girlfriend, and then immediately starts dating some strumpet to prove to himself that no, really, he’s still got it? That’s the Clippers right now.

  11. TDM

    Z -

    I have a hard time believing the Clips would trade for Camby. Who would they play at the 4? They need someone just like Z-bo to carry some of the offensive load, and get some boards as well. Kaman is their guy at the 5, and Thornton is clearly their future at SF.

    I think the Clips are just kicking up dust to try to get Walsh to blink.

  12. jon abbey

    “I think the Clips are just kicking up dust to try to get Walsh to blink.”

    I agree, the other side makes even less sense, no way Denver just gives Camby away.

  13. Captain Merlin

    I think the biggest question is when, or even if Walsh will blink. Given the widespread reports of his declinations, I would have thought he’d have pulled the trigger by now, because I don’t see the market for Zbo being much greater than what we would have hypothetically gotten. It’s worrisome.

  14. Captain Merlin

    The camby deal was just announced on espn.com about 15 minutes ago, so I suppose that this is when the traditional offseason game of “what-the-fuckery” truly begins. What’s going to happen with Kaman now? Neitherof them can play the 4.

  15. Duff Soviet Union

    I find this Camby trade quite interesting. A defensive player of the year straight up for a second rounder? Maybe Denver believes that despite Camby’s rebounding and blocks, his defense isn’t really that valuable. His plus minus’ over the years would seem to suggest this. He’s also 34 and injury prone (albeit less than he used to be). For Denver it all depends on the health of Nene and K-Mart. If those 2 can play significant minutes next year, I don’t think they’ll miss Camby much at all. He’s also a test case for various statistical rating systems (+/- thinks he’s pretty average, PER thinks he’s pretty good, David Berri thinks he’s awesome). Who knows what the paper Clips are thinking. As Brendan said above, this just seems like a fading team desperately trying to prove that they are relevant.

  16. Reebok1303

    Is there any way Camby was acquired by the Clips so he could be included in a trade to the Knicks for Randolph? …….

    I know it’s unlikely, but I can hope can’t I? And his contract does end just in time for the Summer of LeBron.

  17. Brian Cronin

    I figure the Clippers have got to be thinking trade with Camby.

    Otherwise it just doesn’t seem to fit.

    But if they pass him along for another player, it would make sense, and it would obviously be amazing if that “other player” was Zach Randolph.

    Getting Camby for Zach Randolph would be like Christmas in July.

    However, it appears more likely that Walsh just effed the Knicks out of a chance to trade Randolph for cap room.

  18. jon abbey

    “Is there any way Camby was acquired by the Clips so he could be included in a trade to the Knicks for Randolph?”

    this is the only way this wouldn’t have been a catastrophic misplay by Walsh.

  19. RAy

    I think Kaman is a pretty good player. He rebounds ,blocks shots and can score. He had that mental issue straightened out last year and was a new player. Maybe the Clips will send him here. Now that would be Xmas in July. Id take Camby too. Only if he promises to stay healthy.

  20. Thomas B.

    “I think the Clips are just kicking up dust to try to get Walsh to blink.”
    I agree, the other side makes even less sense, no way Denver just gives Camby away.

    Right again jon. :-)

  21. caleb

    Nice move, Clips.

    Seriously, I’m disappointed but it’s no catastrophe — yet. I’ll be pretty surprised if we don’t have another chance before February, 2010, to trade Randolph for a 2nd-rounder.

    For Denver, it’s all about the green. They already have big money tied up in Iverson (through 2009), KMart (2011), Nene & Carmelo (both 2012). They’re about to be paying medium money, at least, to JR Smith and Linas Kleiza. The owner isn’t loaded by NBA standards so something had to give. And yet… I’m shocked they weren’t able to do better – at least get a first-rounder and an expiring contract. They must be desperate.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Clips keep Camby. He’d be fine at power forward, and their other key players aren’t babies — Kaman is 27, I think, and Davis is 29 on bad knees. They could trade Gordon or Thornton for another vet, and be a real win-now team. Not a title contender, but pretty good.

    But… I wonder if Josh Smith isn’t the real target. Atlanta has been eyeing Camby for years (though Rick Sund has replaced Billy Knight as GM, so who knows)… but in any case, Camby is actually a better fit for the Hawks, since Horford could slide to PF and Marvin Williams is kind of a tweener… plus, he’ll have a shorter deal. And, some would say that for $12-13 million, Josh Smith will be overpaid.

  22. Mulligan

    Nothing new to add, but this is a mysterious trade. I mean, Camby has to be worth more than a 2nd round pick, right? And Nene and K-Mart? That’s a pretty unreliable front line. Maybe they’re in the market for Babyhead?

    Likewise, Camby seems to have minimal value for the Clips and seems to repeat Kaman’s skills, just older and creakier.
    I don’t get it.

  23. caleb

    You know — this is good indirect evidence for why we should keep Marbury.

    Huh?!? Why?!!? Waddya mean??!?!?!

    I mean money talks. NBA teams do deals just to save dollars. If we save some team $10-20 million — maybe even more, if it’s a luxury tax payer — for 2009-2010, by taking back a Kenny Thomas/Larry Hughes type deal… that’s extremely valuable to a lot of teams, even if it’s chump change to Dolan. I would not be the least bit surprised to see a team offer a first-round pick, or player with value, in order to save that kind of $$$.

    As far as the Clips go… they could also keep Camby and sign Josh Childress for $8-9 million.. I don’t think the Hawks would match. That lineup would look pretty nice

  24. Ess-dog

    This has GOT to be a prelude to another move for the tie clips (trademark.) Camby really isn’t a pf at 34 and the wookie, although he has a fine offensive game, is not a pf either. That will be the weirdest team assembled. Although history does prove that if you have 2 good 7-footers you can vie for a championship. I still think another move is in the works though. What is the 3-way trade chatter? Probably Okafor, Smith, and someone else (hopefully Zach.)

    That should be our 2nd round pick damnit!

  25. caleb

    A 3-way trade is probably an option (Atlanta, Charlotte or even Chicago being sign n trade possibilities, not to mention all the other possibilities, like Detroit, or even Washington)…

    …but I just don’t see the pressure on the Clips. They’re not rebuilding, not with Baron Davis. And Kaman and Camby would be fine together. Marcus is still a skinny dude, he’s not a banger and gets his blocks coming from the weakside. He’s not as quick as he used to be but he’s plenty quick to guard most PFs on the perimeter. On the other end, he’s not a post-up player and basically doesn’t have much offensive game of any kind, so he’s not going to get in anyone’s way.

    I guess you might like more offense out of your 4/5 spots but the rebounding and defense will be great, and they have chuckers at the 1-2-3 so it’s probably best to have a couple of guys who don’t need plays run for them. Great move for the Clips — they have options and don’t have to rush into any deals.

  26. jon abbey

    “Right again jon. :-)”

    to be fair, it would never have come up in my universe, as I would have had Randolph on a plane to LA before Dunleavy finished his sentence.

    still very surprised this happened, Iverson has to be seriously pissed off, he’s not getting any younger.

  27. caleb

    I’m on the bb so can’t chek #s, but I think that iverson for mobley (or TT) would work. If denver is in money-saving mode…

    And if it blows up on the clips, it’s just a year.

  28. TDM

    I can’t feel my face.

    Unfortunately, I doubt that Camby is coming to NY for Z-bo. If that was the plan, why not kill two birds with one stone and have a 3-team trade to begin with? 2nd rounder to Den, Z-bo to the paperclips, and Camby to NY. I would have loved to have Camby back on the Knicks balance sheet, despite his age. Damn.

  29. Captain Merlin

    I am completely miffed as to how the Nuggets could do this to themselves and as to how the clippers are going to play both Camby and Kaman, given they both play the same position and do nearly the exact same things on the court. I don’t see either of them making a successful transition to the four. Also, this trade pretty much shits all over the idea of dumping Zach for Cap Room, so now I don’t really see any Zbo-Clips deal working out. But if one does, at least we can probably say hello to the Cuttino Mobley Knickerbocker era. What a delightful possibility.

  30. Z

    A $10 million trade exception and a second round pick for Camby. Donnie is looking like an ass-face right now. Hopefully he saw that move coming and we’re not really being led by yet another douchebag president.

    I had heard earlier (before the trade was official) that Camby and Josh Smith were swapping places still, but that should have been announced by now, so don’t hold me to that one either…

    Plus, the Clips signed Jordan and their other pick so they are probably done dealing (those guys can’t be moved for 90 days, I think).

    Bummer. All that “dare to dream” stuff really got my hopes up that Randolph would be gone soon. Turns out KB was right: that Randolph trade fantasy didn’t deserve it’s own post.

    “Fire Donnie”

    “Fire Donnie”

  31. Thomas B.

    “Right again jon. :-)”
    to be fair, it would never have come up in my universe, as I would have had Randolph on a plane to LA before Dunleavy finished his sentence.
    still very surprised this happened, Iverson has to be seriously pissed off, he’s not getting any younger.

    I was this close to posting the same thing. We are all suprised and rightly so. A DPOY for a future 2nd rounder? Nobody could have called that. Denver did sell their pick this year did they not? Wow I guess ownership is trimming the fat. Maybe they think Nene will be healthy this year. One thing is for sure, you can never predict what will happen when the Clips are involved.

  32. jon abbey

    “Turns out KB was right: that Randolph trade fantasy didn’t deserve it’s own post.”

    are you kidding? odds are it’s going to be the biggest (non)decision Walsh makes in his first year here.

  33. Thomas B.

    This has GOT to be a prelude to another move for the tie clips (trademark.) Camby really isn’t a pf at 34 and the wookie, although he has a fine offensive game, is not a pf either. That will be the weirdest team assembled. Although history does prove that if you have 2 good 7-footers you can vie for a championship. I still think another move is in the works though. What is the 3-way trade chatter? Probably Okafor, Smith, and someone else (hopefully Zach.)
    That should be our 2nd round pick damnit!

    Why do you continue to hold on to your dreams. You should have joined the darkside when I offered. Give up hope, do not dare to dream, Randolph will be here forever. With the power of the darkside, I can see that Donnie Walsh has offered Zach Randolph a five year extention worth 80 million dollars…. You all thought it was Isiah, but no, before Isiah there was Layden trading draft picks, and giving Houston 100 million dollars. Before Layden there was Ed Tapscott who selected Fredric Wiess http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVOLH21DB_w And now Donnie Walsh fails to send Randolph to the only team that has shown an outside interest in him. MSG is cursed my friend, MSG is cursed.

  34. Ben R

    No matter what happpens between now and the beginning of the season if Zach is still a Knick at the start of training camp then this off-season will have been a failure. Even if we move Zach for a first rounder at the trading deadline it is still a failure because we will have had to watch Zach as a Knick for half a season.

    I am stunned and saddened by this trade and it just goes to confirm that the Clips offer was for real and Donnie really messed this one up.

    Lee needs to be our starter next year, to, if for no other reason, truly gauge his value and potential as a player. If Zach is still stealing his and Balkman’s and Gallinari’s minutes then I will be truly depressed at the start of the season.

    I know there is alot of summer left and I am not giving up the idea of moving Zach, but the Clippers were the only team, I believe, that could absorb Zach’s contract outright and I do not see any offer being better than a 2nd round pick and a huge trade exemption.

    That trade exemption alone is worth at least a first rounder if not more.

  35. Thomas B.

    When Gallinari learns and gains confidence this is what we can expect….
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1WBUXEgGBQ&feature=related
    the future is bright.

    Thanks RAy,

    Love the clip. The best part was the play by play.

    Che fa lei affiggendo una graffa di un gioco italiano qui? Nessuno potrebbe segnare 27 punti nella lega italiana. Vedrei piuttosto che lui afferra 27 rimbalzi e blocca 7 colpi.

  36. Thomas B.

    “MSG is cursed my friend, MSG is cursed.”
    I believe you mean Mr. Dolan, the king of bad karma.

    We dare not speak his name for his power grows each time it is spoken. He who shall not be named, is indeed the king of bad karma. How many GMs have joined him only to meet their doom?

  37. TDM

    “I believe you mean Mr. Dolan, the king of bad karma.”

    I still prefer Jade Salmon.

    Ok, since the deal with the clips is dead, how about Z-bo to the Bucks for Michael Redd? Redd has 3 years left as well, but since many of the posters feel we are out of the LBJ lottery anyhow, and the fact that the Knicks are turning down deals to clear cap space, we may as well make it interesting.

  38. Thomas B.

    For you Harry Potter fans:

    Think about it, if Lord Voldermort is equal to Dolan, then each GM the Knicks have had since he took over is could be equal to the defense against the dark arts teachers. So it looks like we have to go through six GMs before we have a hope of defeating Lord Dolanmort. Who would be Dumbledor, Stern?

    Harry Potter, get to MSG as soon as you can!

  39. Thomas B.

    “I believe you mean Mr. Dolan, the king of bad karma.”
    I still prefer Jade Salmon.
    Ok, since the deal with the clips is dead, how about Z-bo to the Bucks for Michael Redd? Redd has 3 years left as well, but since many of the posters feel we are out of the LBJ lottery anyhow, and the fact that the Knicks are turning down deals to clear cap space, we may as well make it interesting.

    You gotta change that Gravatar, I cant read your posts while I’m laughing at that pic. Redd in the D’antoni offense, sure why not. If your going to fail, do it in spectacular fashion.

  40. Captain Merlin

    Yes let’s have our sad Knickerbocker saga told in the style of Tolkien and Harry Potter and other stories of that genre

  41. Brendan

    So with Zbo still here, we’re stuck with the multiple agendas issue. If he was really a long term piece in D’Walshi’s minds, it’s hard to see them drafting Gallinari; but to showcase Zbo for (…another…) trade, you have to give him some of the Azzuro’s minutes- or else not play Lee much at all, which would interfere with showcasing HIM for a trade, as they appear open to doing. Or you could play him at the 5, but that would leave Eddy Curry as the untradeable one, or possibly just reduce him to complaining and finding out if you can order Dominos from the bench. How the heck do all these guys get burn? You can’t even play Italy much at the 3, because you’ve got Chandler and Balkman to develop there….

    I still am on board with Walsh, I’m not in a mood to react too much to one possibly blown non-trade, but I have really almost no idea how he and D’antoni plan to sort this kind of minutes crunch before the season starts. Either there has to be a roster move or 6, or else they’re trusting heavily in the fast-paced chuck-it-up style to get enough shots for everyone to stay happy. Throw these tensions in with the potential for Starbury to be hanging around emitting a radioactive funk and for vets like Q Rich to be wanting more minutes in which to show they deserve another long term deal, and I’m worried about the chances for another year with more action on the back page than the backcourt.

    Every bad team needs to develop their young talent and showcase their deadweight vets for trades, but to do both on this scale….

  42. Captain Merlin

    I’m not sure the Bucks would bite at that. If their management were capable of showing signs of sanity, then of course they would not, but then again, they are the bucks, and this is the NBA, so no one’s sanity is completely assured. They did show interest in him last year though with that Villanueva proposal that Zeke thumbed down, so you never know.

    As for the Dolan Voldemort thing, I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. Voldemort was actively, aggressively evil, vindictive, and just sort of sickishly absorbed in achieving his ends, while Dolan is more of a bumbling moron who just todders along and let’s the franchise fall further and further into disrepair without giving too much of a damn. Active, aggressive evil vs. Passive, lackadaisical evil.

  43. Thomas B.

    Well we shouldnt use Tolkien since his stories involved rings and we wont be seeing any rings with the Knicks.

  44. Thomas B.

    “Voldemort was actively, aggressively evil, vindictive, and just sort of sickishly absorbed in achieving his ends..”

    Yes but he did not start that way. Tom Riddle started much like Dolan powerful but troubled. As he learned more about his ability his evil grew. This is particularly true when he began to split his soul. Dolan is on his way.

  45. Brian Cronin

    The fact that Dunleavy was at the game makes me think that perhaps a standard Mobley/Thomas for Z-Bo deal might be in the works, with some other movable parts being involved.

    Of course, it is very likely that I am just fooling myself because otherwise I would be far too enraged that Donnie Walsh turned down a chance to rid the Knicks of Z-Bo and he chose not to do it.

  46. Captain Merlin

    I’m not too sure about that Thomas B, Dolan just doesn’t seem like the sort who would make an effort to pursue the destruction of the franchise to a further extent. Sure, he might aid and abet its demise without having much of a real idea as to what he’s doing. He also might strongly support those who do actually pursue the further demise, while we all watch it go down the tubes. In order to elevate himself to that Voldemortian level, he would have to be less apathetic about it all and visibly be seen taking visceral pleasure in his crimes against humanity. Now there’s a picture idea.

  47. Z

    “The fact that Dunleavy was at the game makes me think that perhaps a standard Mobley/Thomas for Z-Bo deal might be in the works”

    The Clippers are in Vegas too. Dunleavy was probably just hanging out at the gym because the casinos are too smokey.

    Why would the Knicks reject a Randolph for a 2nd rounder but except a Mobley and Thomas trade? They are the junk that makes THEM want to deal, not us.

    As usual, I agree with everything Ben R. submitted above. Everything.

    Unfortunately, the Walsh honeymoon is over.

  48. daaarn

    that Clippers trade makes me sad. if we don’t end up moving randolph somehow, then what tentative trust i had in walsh will be close to out the window b4 his regime really even started

  49. Brian Cronin

    Darnit, Z, I have to believe or else I’d be way too pissed off right now that Walsh apparently effed the Knicks hard.

  50. Owen

    I am shocked by this trade. And I also agree with everything Ben R said.

    And I also agree it’s going to be a very interesting scenario for testing various statistical models.

    What Denver is doing mystifies me. Dean Oliver still work there?

  51. mastermind

    I don’t see what people’s problems are with Camby and Kaman playing together. Defensively it should be fine- Camby is actually better off guarding 4s than 5s. Less chance he’ll hurt himself on Gasol than Bynum. (Besides, he’s obviously been defending power forwards throughout his career.)

    Offensively, it can’t be any worse than having Reggie Evans as your starting power forward, which has somehow coincided with playoff runs for multiple teams. In fact, it’ll be much better, as I’ve actually seen Camby dribble, pass, and hit jumpers.

    My only worry is that Clippers management hopes to replicate the success of the last great ‘twin towers’ experiment, as they will be bitterly disappointed upon realizing that the Eddy-Jerome combo is without peer.

  52. Dave

    Donnie Walsh screwed up that play. That was a wasted opportunity. Very disappointing.

    Bad trade for the Clippers. Wasted their cap space on a dull and uninspired choice who’ll do nothing but waste two years of their franchise (likely Baron’s best two years).

  53. caleb

    Walsh whiffed, but I just don’t see the stakes being too high. Randolph doesn’t need to be moved this summer — only by 2010. For all the reasons I laid out in the Marbury post — there is no such thing (really) as chemistry, or addition by subtraction. If we get the same deal in a year as now, it will be an irritant, not a major problem.

    In the meantime, short of a major injury, Randolph’s value isn’t going down, even if he only plays 25 minutes a games as our part-time center. Two reasons:

    a) His contract will be shorter. Next summer, teams are committing to 2 years and $33 million, instead of 3 and $48 million. As we saw in the Nuggets trade, money is a huge issue for many teams.

    b) Right now, lots of teams are keeping options open for 2010. But as time goes by, many will sign (or re-sign) players, ending their chances of having cap space that summer. At that point, they won’t care so much whether they’re at the cap or $8 million over it.

    No one’s ever giving up much for Randolph, but we will almost certainly have other chances to swap him for a second-rounder… at least, we’ll be able to do it by taking back a Mobley-type deal (ending in 2010)… or in a worst-case scenario, throwing in or own second-rounder, something like that.

    Face it — Denver had a better deal to offer. That’s all.

  54. caleb

    From Denver’s perspective — it’s not mystifying. They’re rebuilding.

    They have a team that won 50 games and got an 8-seed. They had no draft pick and no financial flexibility to improve by adding players. They have young improving guys and old declining guys; overall, they’re spinning their wheels.

    Meanwhile, once they give Kleiza an extension in the $6 million range, they’ll have $45 million a year committed to the frontcourt, through 2011, when Camby is 37. By clearing him out – even for nothing — next summer when Iverson expires they’ll have a core of Anthony, Smith, Kleiza and Nene — plus cap room to sign a big addition. They take a step back this year, but otherwise they die a slow death for 3-4 years.

    IMO, they’re in better shape today than yesterday. But it could be even better shape. What DOES perplex me — was that really the best offer? Camby could help a lot of teams, surely brought back at least a first-rounder. The Nugs would have saved less money — taking back a contract for this year — but still…. They must be in real financial straits, like Phoenix.

  55. Z

    “Face it — Denver had a better deal to offer. That’s all.”

    I’d face it if The Clippers had no interest in Randolph, but they actually did have interest. More interest because they offered the same package but they offered it for Randolph first. Plus, Denver didn’t have a better deal to offer. The Knicks could have taken back Tim Thomas and Catino Mobley if they had offered. Camby will end up costing the Clippers more than Randolph could have.

    And the difference between Randolph and Marbury is significant. Marbury you can send home much much easier and deal at the deadline or let sunset. Randolph you are stuck with for 3 more years UNLESS he is playing major minutes and gets his 20-10 for another team to be suckered into taking him.

    As Ben R. stated earlier, Randolph not only is a bad player that is impossible to root for, he also plays the same position as the Knicks best and most popular player. All of the Knicks young prospects are forwards. The fact that his fat butt huffs it up the court at all not only ruins the game for the fans, but also the players and the future of the franchise.

    Welcome to the eighth year of the Layden era…

  56. Caleb

    I know Randolph and Marbury aren’t the same — my point was that (unlike many people) I don’t think Randolph causes problems by still being on the roster, as long as we move him before 2010. And if all we’re going to get is a second-rounder, I’m confident that wasn’t our last chance to move him.

    Randolph doesn’t have to take minutes from David Lee — that’s what the coach is there for, to decide who plays more. I have faith in Mike D.

    As far as Camby being a better deal for the Clips — of course it is! Camby is a million times better than Randolph. He’s older, but his deal is a year shorter, and he makes several million dollars less. In fact, with Camby, the Clips STILL have enough cap space to offer $16 million to Luol Deng, if they so choose…

  57. Z

    “As far as Camby being a better deal for the Clips — of course it is! Camby is a million times better than Randolph. He’s older, but his deal is a year shorter, and he makes several million dollars less. In fact, with Camby, the Clips STILL have enough cap space to offer $16 million to Luol Deng, if they so choose…”

    The Clippers don’t have the cap space to sign another impact free agent. Because they didn’t unload Mobley or Thomas they only have about $3 million left to spend.

    Plus, the Clippers were in the market for a PF to replace Brand. Randolph was their first choice over Camby. Camby was a consolation prize because the Nuggets took the same offer the Knicks turned down. If the Knicks had offered to take on the Clipper’s dead weight, how could they not have done the Randolph deal over the Camby one? Then they really could have gone out and put pressure on the 76ers to put up Elton Brand money to resign Igudala.

  58. Caleb

    Oh yeah, oops — wasn’t counting Baron Davis there. Still a very good deal for LA – compared to Randolph, they got a better player with a shorter and smaller deal.
    (Guessing that if Walsh was willing to take back Mobley and/or Thomas, deal might have happened.)

    As to choice between Camby and the restricted FAs… hey, it’s a bird in hand. Deng and Iguodala were best fits, but those teams were extremely likely to match. Plus, now Clippers have flexibility in 2010, instead of locking themselves into the same roster for 5 years. And for this year and next – Camby is probably as good or better than any of the options.

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