I wasn’t trying to call you out. I was just responding to the comments you made. The thing that’s kind of annoyed me has been that you’ve seemed to ignore everyone else’s comments about why Lee has been passed over by various teams, as far as RFA as Jon points out and some other stuff. The quotes I cited above were meant to show a pattern of ignoring those points and just saying that Lee is not valued around the league. Basically: he’s lucky to get an offer from the Knicks, won’t get any other offers because teams don’t value him, and his stats are somehow “padded.”

Most of what I’ve been reading (Ric Bucher aside) is that Lee is valued by the front offices with cap space, and a bunch without it. He was clearly not as valuable to some teams as other players they actually agreed to sign, but it’s not entirely clear whether that had to do with the RFA thing, team needs (especially in Toronto’s case), or just flat out liking the other guy better. Probably a combination, but certainly the RFA thing played a role.

So many RFAs over the years have signed offer sheets, only to have their teams match. With no numbers in front of me I would say far more (big) offer sheets are matched than not. Have any other restricted free agents received offer sheets yet this offseason (verbally or whatever is allowed at this point)? I can’t think of any (Gortat? I know there have been some rumors about Dallas… of course the thought there is that Orlando can’t afford to keep him), and the most notable three (Lee, Millsap, Sessions) have not as far as I know. There were rumors that OKC might prefer Millsap to Lee in part because they didn’t think Utah would match, then the rumors became that Utah wanted to keep Millsap and OKC hasn’t made an offer. I have no idea what went on behind the rumors, but it was an interesting pattern.

A lot of teams don’t want to get involved in bidding up someone’s value just so he can sign elsewhere. I even remember George Steinbrenner, of all people, saying something to that effect a few years back. Lee’s preference to stay in NY has been well publicized, so that might have hurt him with other teams. He wants to stay, they want him back, why waste your time by making an offer sheet that the Knicks will match?

I don’t know anything about the BYC stuff, but the Knicks’ willingness to match for Lee might make a sign-and-trade more likely. Any capped out team interested in making a push will have to deal with the BYC red tape, but will have to go through the Knicks in a sign-and-trade since the Knicks already made him an offer over the MLE: they’ll clearly match an MLE offer. As usual, teams with cap space have been all to eager to throw money around, to the point where they can’t wait a week on a RFA.

I’m not trying to say that David Lee is the greatest thing since sliced bread (just as you’re not trying to say he’s garbage), I just have disagreed with a lot of the points you’ve made about him lately and taken some offense to the pattern that emerged in those comments.

I don’t think this is true, it’s just that he’s a restricted free agent. Millsap is in the same position, not enough teams with cap space and the ones who have it think that their offers will be matched and it’ll freeze their possibilities for a week.

Hey I enjoy reading Ted Nelson’s posts for the most part because I like the fact that he does use statistical evidence and I enjoy reading and learning more about advanced stats regarding the NBA. Also he pretty much has sided with Donnie Walsh for the most part which I have as well. I just got real annoyed with his responses to my comments as if I was talking none sense just to diminish David Lee somehow. Ill say it once and Ill say it again, I hope he remains a Knick.

“Lets be serious its freaking Memphis. Actually it speaks to what teams think of him really if you look at it.”

Al’s right, kind of. Lee’s put up gaudy numbers and has been passed up by most of the teams with cap space this season. That doesn’t mean those teams are right.

“Apparently Villanueva is getting 5 yr – 35 million. Sorry, no way Lee gets much more than that unless Memphis really desperately wants him.”

I agree. Villanueva has “cred,” however undeserved. I think Lee is far more valuable, but it’s obvious that he’s not looked upon very highly during this FA signing period, aside from potential trades/sign-and-trades. We can’t be sure.

“He better hurry up and accept whatever Donnie Walsh is willing to offer him because it looks like Lee has lost any leverage he had.”

A bit pessimistic, but you’d be hard-pressed to find an opinion to the contrary given the offseason moves so far.

“If this off-season showed anything is outside of NY Im not too sure Lee is really looked at that highly.”

Probably incorrect, but again, given the last week…

“I say take whatever the Knicks are willing to give him, be happy and take D’Antoni out to dinner for padding his stats.”

Snarky. Per 36 stats don’t lie (as much). If there’s a team that still relies on per game stats, they probably need an overhaul.

“A late bid for him from who?????????????”

Don’t care enough to look up context, but I don’t think that this is an attack so much as a statement on the shrinking list of teams able to offer him a contract.

“Odom will be hard pressed to get 10 mil per year and will most likely have to settle for around 8 mil per year how in the world is Lee worth more than Odom, age be damned????”

Whether he’s worth the money is another question, but I too have a hard time seeing Lee making more per year than Odom. The latter is certainly a question mark as far as “consistency” goes, but he’s coming off a string of good seasons and a great postseason performance (highest TS% he’s put up thus far). Since we’ve been admiring Big Snacks’ warm-up suit for the last few years, I’m sure we all know the value of a strong postseason performance to idiotic GMs.

“Ted Nelson, the reason Memphis traded for Zach and not wait for Lee’s price to come down is probably because they flat out think Zach is a better player, actually probably a much better player since they are willing to take on his contract.”

Not sure who opined that Lee’s contract is three years longer, which must be noted, but again, this is a valid hypothesis. They did take Zach, though, so the idea that they value him more than Lee certainly isn’t unfounded. Not a jab at Lee, still. Note that Al didn’t write “probably beacuse Zach is a better player;” instead, he wrote, “probably because they flat out think Zach is a better player.” Nothing wrong with hypothesizing here. Everyone does it. Doesn’t mean it’s true.

“There you go. Since they both are horrible defenders and average about the same amount of blocks per game as I do teams around the NBA probably mostly would prefer Zach over Lee, off the court incidents not withstanding.”

Bad statistical analysis. Can’t defend this one.

“Am I the only one who has no clue as to why Portland would want David Lee, let alone for a 5 yr – 50 mil contract????”

No, you’re not the only one. Their roster is jammed up with frontcourt players.

“Ted Nelson, you are really beginning to annoy the crap out of me with your sarcastic replies to all my comments.”

SHAZAAM!

“You quite frankly must have a hard time reading.”

BABOOM!

Listen guys: Italian Stallion is gone from our beloved KB.net. There’s nothing to worry about (unless you regularly peruse Wages of Wins Journal). Let’s not get out of control.