Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, November 22, 2014

ESPN: Debate Knicks-Pacers Game 6

I was invited to talk about Game 6 at Espanola.

A snippet:

1. What does the absence of George Hill mean?

Mike Kurylo, KnickerBlogger: Obviously, Hill is an important cog for the Pacers. But I think Game 5 was more about the Knicks going back to what made them successful (smaller ball) than the absence of Hill. New York has suffered through injuries (Iman Shumpert, Amar’e Stoudemire, Rasheed Wallace, Kurt Thomas, Melo’s shoulder, Tyson Chandler’s neck, Jason Kidd’s bruised confidence) so as Reggie Miller says, “Next man up!”

How about you answer these, and then compare them to mine/the panel? (My favorite answer was to #4, which seemed the most obvious.)
1. What does the absence of George Hill mean?
2. What do you think about the league’s concussion policy?
3. Is Paul George better than Carmelo Anthony?
4. Does Game 6 feel like a must-win for Indiana?
5. Who wins Game 6?

39 comments on “ESPN: Debate Knicks-Pacers Game 6

  1. Brian Cronin

    I didn’t like this tweet from Chris Herring…

    Also, sidenote: I think he’s really good, but m George Hill has to be the most marginal player I can recall ppl being this concerned abt

    First off, that’s the same sort of equivocating silliness I was complaining about last night with Bradley Beal. Beal said he’d lose respect for Rose if he was his teammate but then tweeted Rose “no disrespect.” Same thing here – “He’s really good, but he is marginal.” You can’t be “really good” and “marginal.” If you want to say the guy is marginal, just say he’s marginal.

    Secondly, I don’t see how anyone could look at Hill and the Pacers and not say “Oh yeah, taking him away would really hurt the team.” Especially not a Knicks beat writer who knows how important Raymond Felton is to the Knicks. If Hill is marginal, Felton is sub-marginal, and yet Felton is also plainly extremely important to the Knicks. Same goes for Hill and the Pacers. So the whole tweet just seemed odd, especially from such an otherwise strong writer like Herring.

  2. Owen

    Just looking at the numbers that Hill has posted this year, in the regular season and in the playoffs, and having watched him play on the perimeter for the best three point percentage defense team in the NBA, not sure how anyone could conclude that Hill is not a huge piece of the puzzle in Indiana. Not sure he is their best player but he is close….

  3. d-mar

    The reason that the possible loss of George Hill, an above average guard at best, is so devastating to the Pacers is because they have a very weak bench. You can shorten your rotations in the playoffs, but one injury to a team with a shallow bench like Indiana can be a killer.

  4. Loathing

    1. No Hill, no offensive continuity for the Pacers, such as it’s been. With Prigs guarding DJ Augustin, it may end up being a one-man blooper reel for DJ.

    2. Considering there hasn’t been a history of concussions in the NBA like in other sports, I think anything put in is more proactive than anything else. That said, it’s good they do.

    3. As a scorer, NO. Everything else, yeah. He’s more of a details guy, but no one will EVER get him confused for a franchise player. He’s a good Robin to a superstar’s Batman.

    4. It’s a must-win for either team. Indy wins, it’s done. Knicks win, I don’t see Indy coming back in G7.

    5. I’m going out on a limb here, but I say the Knicks pull out a squeaker here. Melo’s been getting better, Smith’s shooting has improved (hey, 40% is still better than 22% or whatever godawful #s he’s been putting up) and no Hill should relax the offense so they don’t feel like they HAVE to score on EVERY possession (and go iso in the process). A relaxed offense is a more effecient offense.

  5. d-mar

    Spree8nyk8:
    Hill has been cleared he’ll start tonight.

    Too bad we don’t have KG on our team, he could throw a cheap elbow at Hill’s head while setting one of his illegal screens

  6. Brian Cronin

    Too bad we don’t have KG on our team, he could throw a cheap elbow at Hill’s head while setting one of his illegal screens

    And if he did, the announcers would say “Smart play by KG there. What a warrior.”

  7. jon abbey

    yeah, I know he’s ruru’s buddy and reads here, but not too impressed with Herring, although he does try hard.

    with Hill in there, I don’t think we have the chemistry or the balls or the coaching to win this one. I will be rooting very hard to be wrong, but I expect the season to be over four hours from now.

  8. Brian Cronin

    Especially because Herring followed up the first tweet with

    As me & several others have suggested tho, him matching up w Felton is night & day diff from Augustin.

    Then what in the world was the point of the initial tweet?!

  9. Hubert

    I’m glad Hill is playing. We were losing either way. At least now I don’t have to spend the summer remembering the time DJ Augustin eliminated us from the playoffs.

  10. Spree8nyk8

    Brian Cronin: And if he did, the announcers would say “Smart play by KG there. What a warrior.”

    Yeah or saavy or some bullshit like that. When he pulled melo’s arm out of his socket they called it “a craft veteran move”

  11. Brian Cronin

    I think they’d definitely win if Hill was out. I think they can still win, but yeah, it’ll be tough. I think the Pacers are roughly a 60/40 favorite. That’s still very winnable for the Knicks.

    In addition, George Hill might not be 100%. How will he deal with contact?

  12. Spree8nyk8

    Hubert:
    I’m glad Hill is playing.We were losing either way.At least now I don’t have to spend the summer remembering the time DJ Augustin eliminated us from the playoffs.

    That’s a horseshit attitude. This is one game and it’s not against the 72 win bulls. You are entitled to your opinion. But if they do win, hold your head in shame. This team was supposed to fail at every turn but has been resilient. They weren’t picked to win the division, they said they wouldn’t hold onto the #2 seed. They beat Indy in a game that decided the #2 seed. They can certainly win 1 game.

  13. Robtachi

    Brian Cronin:
    In addition, George Hill might not be 100%. How will he deal with contact?

    With concussions, you are more susceptible to additional concussions, but the whole point of being cleared is that you are no longer symptomatic, so he is, in fact, 100%. If you’re not experiencing concussion symptoms, then you’re functioning as you normally do unless you sustain another one.

    Sure wish we had KT or Sheed out there to set an obliterative screen or two…

  14. Spree8nyk8

    Hill has played great don’t get me wrong. But the games we lost had a lot more to do with Woodson than it did Hill. And we have finally reached a point where Woodson is doing the right thing out of desperation. If our players play the way they are capable of we’ll win this game.

  15. Brian Cronin

    With concussions, you are more susceptible to additional concussions, but the whole point of being cleared is that you are no longer symptomatic, so he is, in fact, 100%. If you’re not experiencing concussion symptoms, then you’re functioning as you normally do unless you sustain another one.

    Sure wish we had KT or Sheed out there to set an obliterative screen or two…

    Sorry, I meant more from a psychological standpoint. You know, is he mentally back or will he shy away from contact?

  16. Loathing

    `Agreed Spree…one at a time. I got a good feeling about this, Hill or no Hill. (just someone tell Woody to put Prigs on Hill to disrupt their flow ;)

  17. Z-man

    1. George Hill is a huge factor for Indiana. He’s their only bonafide PG and a solid all-around player who will make open shots and penetrate some. That said, he doesn’t determine the outcome of this game unless he is left open by stupid doubling and trapping.

    2, Good policy, due diligence done here and the player has been cleared to play without undue delay.

    3. No, but he could play on my team any time. I like his game. Melo doesn’t always play better, but he is capable of playing better. Here’s a question that answers the question: would you trade Melo for George for this game tonight? The answer for me is a resounding NO.

    4. I don’t go for that stuff, fact remains that is they lose, they are still alive and could definitely beat the Knicks at MSG. Obviously they should treat it as a must win, but it’s not.

    5. I have a good feeling about this one, but I said the same thing before game 4. I just think that the Knicks will rise to the occasion and will not let their season end tonight. In a way, this game is like game 6 vs. Boston; we stunk up MSG in game 5 but when the chips were on the line, we came through. One thing is for sure, I’ll be far from sober at 11:00 tonight.

  18. elikint

    Yeah Ruru, i find it near impossible w iphone to post to the site — i’m usually at a bar. WordPress app make it better?

    e

  19. Loathing

    Sure wish we had KT or Sheed out there to set an obliterative screen or two…

    K-Mart or Chandler good enough?

  20. Spree8nyk8

    Don’t get me wrong it’s not like I’m saying he’s a bad player, but he’s not the earth rattling player he’s getting credit for he’s got 18 ast and 12 to’s in the games he’s played, he pretty much played great in one game good in one game, and below avg in 2 games. If we lose tonight it’s not likely to be the reason that we lose. Sure he could go off and have a big game, but he’s just as likely to have a 1 ast 3 to game as well. He just got his bell rung and there is no telling what he’s bringing to this.

    Calm down and go Knicks

  21. Hubert

    Serious questions:

    Does Tyson set softer picks now?

    Do the refs protect Hill if we set regular screens?

    I don’t see how this doesn’t affect how the game is played. Personally, I would hard screen the shit out of him (not to target him in an unethical way, just normal, clean, hard screens like the ones that need to be set). If he gets knocked out again, it’s the Pacers’ & the league’s fault.

    But I think Tyson will go soft on him. And if he doesn’t I think Hill gets protection.

  22. Z-man

    Mike K, we seemed to agree on every point except we may have slightly disagreed on Hill’s importance. I was actually pleasantly surprised that you said that Melo was better than George, but your explanation made lots of sense. Good job and congrats on the lofty (?) company of that interview!

  23. Spree8nyk8

    I’ve been here long enough to understand that this is not the most optimistic place in the world but you’d think pregame for one game that can even the series and bring it back to MSG for a game 7 that there would be a little more optimism. Don’t really see what is gained from feeling negative. If you are right you’ll still feel like shit afterwards.

  24. Loathing

    Spree8nyk8:
    I’ve been here long enough to understand that this is not the most optimistic place in the world but you’d think pregame for one game that can even the series and bring it back to MSG for a game 7 that there would be a little more optimism.Don’t really see what is gained from feeling negative.If you are right you’ll still feel like shit afterwards.

    Self fulfilling prophecy Spree. That’s what we’ve been reduced to…this is why not winning a title in 40 years isn’t healthy. :P

  25. Spree8nyk8

    I totally get it. But it’s really not that bad, you have one freakin game to pull even for the series.

  26. jon abbey

    Spree8nyk8:
    I’ve been here long enough to understand that this is not the most optimistic place in the world but you’d think pregame for one game that can even the series and bring it back to MSG for a game 7 that there would be a little more optimism.Don’t really see what is gained from feeling negative.If you are right you’ll still feel like shit afterwards.

    you get that it doesn’t matter what we say here, right? Indiana has won all five home playoff games by double figures, they kicked the crap out of us there during the season too, and I don’t believe in our players or our coach enough to think that will change tonight. IND lived through blowing a 2-1 lead in the second round to MIA last year, NY still doesn’t even know what their best rotation is. again, I hope I’m wrong and will be rooting just as hard as you, just not optimistic, sorry.

  27. jon abbey

    no game thread? they are moving the softball game, luckily for anyone DVRing this.

  28. Spree8nyk8

    abbey I’ve known you long enough to know where you stand, I know ur a huge fan. But I’m never gonna get it lol. I’m always going to find your lack of faith disturbing :)

  29. Hubert

    Yeah, what Jon Abbey said.

    If we get off to a 21-4 start like G6 in Boston I’ll gladly eat crow.

    Hell, If we’re not down 8 after 1 I’m happy to believe.

  30. Spree8nyk8

    oh and just for humor in response to you saying “you know what we say doesn’t matter right”…..If I’m doing something while the Knicks are playing well and stop doing it and they start playing poorly, i’ll resume doing whatever I was doing. And if someone isn’t watching with me while they are playing well and they sit down and start watching and the game starts turning I’ll ask them to leave the room. I’ve asked my mom, my wife (ex), friends, sister and lots of others to do it. Sure it’s weird, but I am superstitious. Can’t help it.

  31. jon abbey

    Spree8nyk8:
    abbey I’ve known you long enough to know where you stand, I know ur a huge fan.But I’m never gonna get it lol.I’m always going to find your lack of faith disturbing :)

    I have faith when teams merit it, I had a lot of faith in the 1998-2001 Yankees, for instance. :)

    I am pumped for this one, though. I hope the Knicks are too.

  32. Frank O.

    This could be dramatic.
    Lots of physical play. Hill is back.
    Melo and JR story line.
    Could be a classic

  33. jon abbey

    Spree8nyk8:
    oh and just for humor in response to you saying “you know what we say doesn’t matter right”…..If I’m doing something while the Knicks are playing well and stop doing it and they start playing poorly, i’ll resume doing whatever I was doing.And if someone isn’t watching with me while they are playing well and they sit down and start watching and the game starts turning I’ll ask them to leave the room.I’ve asked my mom, my wife (ex), friends, sister and lots of others to do it.Sure it’s weird, but I am superstitious.Can’t help it.

    I do things like that too, but that doesn’t mean it actually matters.

  34. Brian Cronin

    Seems more like an OKC-Denver game!

    Seriously! They are nearly at the halftime score of last game!

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