Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, August 24, 2019

Detroit Pistons 105 – New York Knicks 92 – Game Recap

“Son, here you have a man who owns a Lamborghini; another one who’s happily married to the love of his life; and another yet who just lost his job and got his car repo’d. Now tell me: who’s the rich one?”
“The Lambo one! We know for sure he has the money, a Lambo doesn’t sure come for pennies!”
“I think you have the wrong answer, child”
“Ohhh… so is it the married one? Because spiritual riches are more worthy than physical ones?”
“I think you have the wrong answer again, my son”
“Uh, dad. It can’t be the third one. From what you told me, he has nothing.”
“I agree, in a sense. The thing is, neither of them can be, and all of them can be.”
“How is it that so?”
“Because there are only two things that make a man rich, and you don’t know which man has them”
“I… I still don’t get it, pa”
“Of course. You’re too young.”
“So… would you please tell me?”
“Sure. You see, son, those two things are time, and hope. What good does all the gold in the world when you only have a month to spend it? Don’t you think a billionaire with a terminal illness would trade all of his money to live another ten years to play with his nephew in the backyard?”
“Oh, yes… I think so”
“And hope. Hope is even more important. You can have all the time in the world and all the money in the world, but if you have no hope… well, you’re poorer than anyone who has nothing but still wakes up with a big smile, because he hopes – and in doing so, he knows – that the present day will be the best day of his life. Every day”

From “The book I never wrote”, Farfa

***

Funny how just a few days can make all of the difference in the world, right? The last time I wrote a recap (six days ago) I was still writing scathing things about Tim Hardaway Jr., I was worrying about Mudiay being extended and. most importantly, I was dousing myself in hot coffee, alprazolam and fluoxetine just to stay awake during games without getting too anxious or depressed.

Now, the product on the court is still terrible, but at least I can watch it without trying to pull my eyes out thinking that the guy who’s relentlessly chucking still has two years and 34 million dollars on his contract, or that the quite bad starting PG who can’t shoot from outside is due an extension soon and apart from Fizdale magic there’s nothing granting him a second look (and still, we’re playing him 30 minutes per game). Suddenly. our aimless chucker is a starting PG who can’t shoot from outside and he’s playing more than 30 minutes, but that starting PG now has two more years on his relatively cheap rookie contract and might be a useful trade asset down the line.

The game itself was a pretty fun one in the first half. It started poorly, like a late reminiscence of the THJ era, with Matthews not being able to hit anything in sight and the defense looking completely discombobulated. Griffin abused everyone physically (no small feat on Vonleh), DeAndre looked disinterested just as he did throughout his Dallas days, and Smith Jr was always a step late in the rotations. Then, between the end of the first and the beginning of the second quarter, something happened. Mitch got in. Suddenly the whole team was looking to hit him for alley-oops. Dotson, Trier, Allen, everyone got in the game of “find your human pogo stick near the basket”, and it was a thing of beauty. It was like living again Linsanity for a few precious minutes, and marveling at the same time at the intrinsic mortality of the present and the inherent sustainability of the action. We got close (45-43 for Detroit) but some paint action from Detroit and poor rebounding from us sent us down 9 at the end of the second quarter. The third quarter was a bricktastic affair (17-15 for us in the period) which saw us get close again until a few bogus calls sent us spiraling a bit out of control again. The fourth quarter saw Detroit finally pull away thanks to some Blake action after a brief stretch of Kadeem Allen dominance ruined by another bogus charge call from the refs (Allen stole the ball at midcourt down nine after he scored the last unanswered five points, only to see his running layup waived off thanks to a Calderon-taken charge; now, I get Jose moves reeeaaalllyyy sloooowly, but he was clearly backpedaling there. The Knicks actually scored anyway on the next possession – a Lance Thomas corner three – but the momentum vanished like that). Dennis Smith Jr. put on his best THJ impersonation and the game was over. Nonetheless, this was the most exciting game I saw in a while from our Knicks, thanks to Mitch and a lot of newfound hope.

The good:

– Who else if not our best prospect in years, Mitchell Robinson (13 pts, 10 rebs, 2 blks, -1 +/-) in the first half was everything we could have wanted and even more. A behemoth above the rim, where he just outplays the 99.99% of his competition. Since day one we’re saying that if we had a competent point guard Mitch would be feasting at the tim. Now, we still don’t have a competent point guard (yet), but Mitch proved us right in a fantastic stretch of six minutes. Dunks, layups, rebounds, even an and-one. If this guy played consistently 24 minutes per game (and really, there’s no reason at all for that not to happen) I think he would garner a lot more attention from the whole league, ultimately making him a prized asset to dangle in front of New Orleans. Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t want Mitch to go anywhere. but a Mitch emergence could make life for the Lakers and/or Celtics even harder in trade talks. Your #MitchB-RWatch: he’s currently posting a higher WS/48 than the rookie seasons of Bill Russell and Yao Ming, to name a few. If he maintained the current WS/48 and reached the 1000 minutes threshold, he would put up the 25th best rookie season ever. He’s also on pace for the 2nd best season ever by a rookie in BLK%, the sixth in BPM (and, strangely, only the 197th in VORP).

The bad:

– Wesley Matthews (9 pts. 2 rebs, 5 ast, -11 +/-) can’t buy a bucket these days, but in the end who cares? I’m not even mad at him, mostly thanks to the fact that he’s a giant expiring. There are other things, though, that make me appreciate his bad play: he’s involved on defense (even if slow and ground-bound), he makes the extra-pass, he seems to understand basketball. Context matters: while he and his precedessor share the same salary, give or take, and some of the same infuriating tendencies, I guess nobody bats an eye seeing him shoot a one-dribble pullup jumper from 20 feet. I guess it’s like dating a girl/guy who’s very similar to your last partner, only you actually lived two years with the latter and hated her/his guts after a few months, while you know your new fling will be over after a few weeks, so who cares if she/he is into that pineapple pizza crap.

Hope-sized bits:

– DSJ is the only real tangible asset we got in the KP trade. Do I like what I see from him? Maybe a bit. I feel like he’s a better player than Mudiay (but that could just be my bias, or the fact that Smith actually looks for the open man from time to time), I’m pretty sure he’s way more fun to watch than Mud, I have no idea if he’s better than Mud at defense – but being worse is really hard – and I have, as we all do, a D-Rose themed fear that applies very well to Dennis. He had a blah game, I’d say a Fizdale magic game (25 points on 25 shots, 4 turnovers, astronomic usage), but in the end I think there might be an NBA player in him. Even if there wasn’t, I’m glad our FO doesn’t have to make a choice about his future until 2021. That totally settles the deal.

– I’m also looking forward to see Dennis win the dunk contest. If he did it while wearing a Porzingis jersey it’d be exhilarating.

– Will Knox ever hit more than half of his shots again? He literally did it twice in the whole season. That’s five times out of one hundred. Can you believe I’m actually looking forward to the day we trade Knox before everyone realizes he’s just not good?

– I seem to like DeAndre Jordan’s personality. It’s just a shame he stopped caring about basketball.

– Now think about what it means that Kanter still doesn’t play and we’re better for it while the last sentence is definitely true (also, at last it looks like the “We want Kanter!” chants got to an end).

– Is there any chance we trade Vonleh for a second? Dude’s looking very sad lately. Also a bit ineffective.

– Kadeem Allen is what we want Ntilikina to be, minus the freakishly long arms. I don’t know it that’s good for Allen or is the definitive indictment of the 2017 lottery pick.

– I can’t wait to discover if Fizdale can coach anything basketball related to an actual basketball team. Right now he looks more like a (not particularly competent) kindergarten caretaker. But, uhm, Fizdale magic I guess?

– This was your monthly token “Let’s play Lance Thomas for his defense on big ball-handling guys”. I would have played Kornet at the four for extended minutes, but who am I to say?

– I feared having Smith Jr would have been a little detrimental to Trier, and it looks like I was right.

– Dotson has been strangely inconsistent, but I can’t hold that against him, since it’s not like the rotations are consistent themselves.

And now, on to the next game against Detroit, and let’s see what the trade deadline brings along (but seriously, I’m not ready to say goodbye to Mitch, so… let’s talk about AD in the offseason, ok?).

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263 comments on “Detroit Pistons 105 – New York Knicks 92 – Game Recap

  1. Farfa Post author

    That Sixers trade sucks for us

    Yes it does, but whatever. I have no hope to pick up any asset from what the expirings we got from Dallas.

  2. Farfa Post author

    From the other thread:

    Somehow Knox has risen 18 spots in Bill Simmons’ Trade Value Rankings. http://tradevalue.theringer.com/?_ga=2.147127540.271893315.1549389081-1301156529.1544090980

    Fuck the heck?

    That column makes no sense at all. John Collins should be higher than every 2018/19 rookie save for Doncic, Ayton, and JJJ.

    Yikes that seems like a terrible trade for the Sixers. Harris is nice but he’s an unrestricted FA! He’s a good shooter and an ok ball handler but how many dudes do you need who need/want the ball in their hands? I mean wouldn’t you want Wes Matthews, who is not quite as good a shooter maybe but a much better defender than Harris, and wouldn’t have cost you all that treasure?! Or even Reggie Bullock?

    I mean they are swinging for the fences which is fine, but if they flame out in the second round, it is very possible that both Butler and Harris leave, and what would they have to show for all the assets Hinkie accumulated?

    Yikes.

    I don’t think Philly has a lot to lose there. In the end they’re fielding a powerhouse starting lineup and they’ll be able to pick up some guys from the scrap heap. I’m much more worried about internal chemistry, but a Simmons-Redick-Butler-Harris-Embiid lineup is probably the second best in the whole league.

  3. Brian Cronin

    I think the Harris trade made sense in that they were at risk of losing Butler this offseason while now they have a real great sales pitch to keep Butler and Harris and have a pretty sweet starting lineup locked in for a few years (plus the ability to now add guys with the MLE). Like we were saying yesterday, Harris as the main guy in your lineup is terrible, but Harris playing a supporting role to Embiid, Simmons and Butler? Plus an incentive for Butler to stick around? That’s a logical move.

  4. Brian Cronin

    Over/under one week before Jimmy starts complaining that he doesn’t get the ball enough.

    I would imagine that one of the best things about Harris to Butler is that Harris doesn’t need the ball that much.

  5. Brian Cronin

    Plus, even if everything falls apart and both Harris and Butler leave, the Sixers know that they have too good of a core to not be able to remain a playoff team by pivoting to lower level free agents with all of the cap room they’ll have if Harris and Butler leave. You know, they could sign, like, six Noah Vonleh-style guys if they lost out on both Harris and Butler and because their core is so good that could be a palatable back-up scenario for them.

  6. Early Bird

    Even if Butler wants out, I can’t imagine Harris wanting to leave. That’s a young, long term core. Butler is the most likely to decline anyway. MLE and some vets will shore them up.

    Who needs depth? They just got Boban. Boban is their bench.

  7. Ntilakilla

    This Harris trade could benefit us. The Sixers’ biggest issue before this trade was a severe lack of depth, especially on the wing, and that remains the case now, if not even more so. Shamet was proabbly the Sixers’ best bench player and a big-time surprise as a rookie, contributing three-point shooting at a 40 percent clip. Muscala was a liability on defense but was still solid as a shooting big. As it stands now, the Sixers bench unit will consist of T.J. McConnell, Marjanovic, Scott, T.J. McConnell, rookie Jonah Bolden, Furkan Korkmaz, Amir Johnson and two-way player Haywood Highsmith. That’s one of the worst bench units in the NBA, and especially for an aspiring contender.

    We should swoop in and offer Matthews or any other wing on our roster for that matter. Sixers have multiple injured players taking up roster spots in Zhaire Smith, rookie Shake Milton (two-way) and center Justin Patton. That’s not to mention the Markelle Fultz. We should execute a deal for some of these assets.

  8. Frank

    Wonder whether Clips will want to get involved in the AD sweepstakes. Like Montrezl plus Gallo plus Lou williams (who is good and could be turned into a real first rounder) plus multiple picks for AD and all the Pels bad money?

    Montrezl plus Gallo would make them a watchable team with Jrue and they’d still have multiple firsts available.

  9. Brian Cronin

    Even if Butler wants out, I can’t imagine Harris wanting to leave. That’s a young, long term core. Butler is the most likely to decline anyway. MLE and some vets will shore them up.

    Who needs depth? They just got Boban. Boban is their bench.

    Good point. So if they lost Butler, they could still spend his money (while using Harris’ cap hold) to add other free agents and then go over the cap to keep Harris (then add someone else with the room). The main reason they didn’t add anyone last offseason is because they were holding on to cap space for this offseason. Now there’s no more need, so they can sign a lot of mid-level guys if they miss out on Butler.

    But obviously, their main thing would be to re-sign Butler and Harris and then add someone decent with the room.

  10. Frank

    If Harris doesn’t like Philly he would def get a max offer from Brooklyn. Isn’t Harris from Long Island?

  11. Farfa Post author

    We should swoop in and offer Matthews or any other wing on our roster for that matter. Sixers have multiple injured players taking up roster spots in Zhaire Smith, rookie Shake Milton (two-way) and center Justin Patton. That’s not to mention the Markelle Fultz. We should execute a deal for some of these assets.

    If you trade Matthews for anything that doesn’t expire in 2019, you’re eating at your own cap. Given that Philly just sent away picks to the Clippers, why should we do that?

  12. Brian Cronin

    We should swoop in and offer Matthews or any other wing on our roster for that matter. Sixers have multiple injured players taking up roster spots in Zhaire Smith, rookie Shake Milton (two-way) and center Justin Patton. That’s not to mention the Markelle Fultz. We should execute a deal for some of these assets.

    Matthews makes too much money for the deals to balance out, cap-wise. The biggest problem for the Knicks is that their three somewhat decent bench pieces that they could offer teams currently make $18 million (Matthews), $18.6 million (Kanter) and $21 million (Jordan) respectively.

  13. bobneptune

    That Sixers trade sucks for us

    Why… it gives the paper clips a boatload of picks to offload for AD and then sign Kawhai….

  14. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    I’m not sure how much I like this deal for the 76ers. The difference between this year and last year so far has been defense and depth. The defense slipped and losing depth like Belinelli and Ilvasova hurt them. I guess adding a “go to” scorer will help and they can look to add some more depth in the buyout market soon, but they gave up a lot.

  15. Brian Cronin

    Really good trade for the Clippers

    Yeah, while I think it makes sense for the Sixers, it was an amazing trade for the Clippers. They were not a lock to make the playoffs as currently constituted, and now they can lock in a lottery spot (and thus not have to give their pick to Boston) and add two first round picks (with the unprotected 2021 Miami pick being the real crown jewel) while not impacting their ability to sign Kawhi and another guy this offseason.

  16. Brian Cronin

    By the way, while it is better for the Knicks if he leaves, it would really kind of irk me if Kawhi turns down such an amazing opportunity with the Raptors to go to the Clippers. It just seems kind of douchey. The Pelicans at least suck.

  17. Farfa Post author

    @21

    Plus, if they can unload Gallinari’s contract somewhere they could be a credible threat to sign two marquee max free agents just like us. And they have Jerry West, who… humm… was the one to convince KD to sign with Golden State?

  18. Max

    Jerry West is a genius,
    last year the Griffin trade, this year this one,
    unloading an expiring for 2 1Sts and the chance to have the new Lou Williams learn from the real Lou Williams…
    Plus, I think they know Leonard’s coming…

    Philly’s starting five is reeeeally good (the bench right now is awful), expecially in the playoffs when you cut the rotations, so in the short term this could be a good trade for both teams.

  19. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    The Knicks are probably going to wind up buying out Kanter and Matthews. Everyone knows they aren’t in the Knicks long term plans, there are a limited number of possible destinations, and no one is going to be anxious to give up anything as part of it.

    They’ll probably keep Jordan around until the end of the season to work with Robinson and if they totally strike out in free agency (ugh) could even consider keeping him beyond that for a year or two as Robinson develops.

  20. Brian Cronin

    One of the fun things about watching the game live is that you can always pick something to follow that you can’t necessarily do on TV, because the TV shots mostly follow the ball. For instance, I told my wife when the Knicks were on defense to just keep her eye on Jordan (she doesn’t know anyone on the Knicks anymore, of course, as they trade everyone constantly) and watch how he just doesn’t give even the slightest shit anymore. It was really fun to watch Jordan pretend to play defense while not really move at all on every possession.

    The only time he ever shows a pulse is when he has a chance at a rebound or on the occasional dunk attempt. It’s shocking to see such a great former player completely check out like this. But at least I had something to show my wife at the game besides “Watch Robinson dunk like crazy.”

  21. Brian Cronin

    Some conspiracy theorists are saying that coincidentally Jordan’s one of KD best friends.

    Yeah, I saw that in the Daily News or the Post and I was just shocked at the stupidity of it all. They have no room to re-sign Jordan and two maxes! It doesn’t make any sense at all! What a terribly stupid conspiracy theory!

  22. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Jerry West is a genius

    Unquestionably.

    The Clippers lost Jordan, Paul, and Griffin, continued to put a pretty good team on the court while it was happening, and improved their position dramatically all in 2 years. They all make mistakes because no one has perfect foresight. I’m sure West will too. But damn he did a good job.

  23. Max

    @28
    I’m drowning in KP trade-related podcasts this days so I don’t remember exactly if the source was Marc Stein (on Dunc’d up), Woj or Sharp and Golliver but it’s def one of the three…
    :-)

    Farfa: great job as always, I’m happy that you found hope after the martyrdom you’ve endured watching all this games, now I’m waiting for a signed copy of “The Book You Never Wrote” ;-)

  24. Brian Cronin

    If Jordan is in full lazy mode, why do we want him to stick around the mentor Robinson?

    He’s still an amazing rebounder, so he could probably help Robinson there. Plus, of course, he managed to improve his free throw shooting a lot, which could also help Robinsom.

  25. Brian Cronin

    I’m drowning in KP trade-related podcasts this days so I don’t remember exactly if the source was Marc Stein (on Dunc’d up), Woj or Sharp and Golliver but it’s def one of the three…

    From ESPN:

    “One thing I’ll say about the Knicks,” Windhorst said, “they’re making it look like they intend to keep DeAndre Jordan. You can extrapolate this out: [He] has a relationship with Kevin Durant. Although I don’t know how. I mean, they can’t keep [Jordan] at any real number.”

    So he seems to debunk it even as he introduces the idea himself!

  26. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Yeah, I saw that in the Daily News or the Post and I was just shocked at the stupidity of it all. They have no room to re-sign Jordan and two maxes! It doesn’t make any sense at all! What a terribly stupid conspiracy theory!

    I think the theory would be that Durant comes but the other max players stay where they are or choose different teams. Then the Knicks would use the 2nd max slot for multiple non max quality players. They could use some of it on Jordan and add another quality player. That would be quite a failure even with Durant.

    I was having a tough time processing Durant wanting to come to NY even if KP was here. Let’s say it’s Kyrie instead. That team is still not good enough and Durant is 30. Unless the Knicks are willing package the young players and picks for another star, I don’t see why Durant would want to be here. I certainly don’t see why he’d want to be here alone. If they do blow up the youth movement for a 2nd and/or 3rd star, he better be young because Durant doesn’t have many peak years left.

  27. Brian Cronin

    Ugh. The State of the Union address was a nightmare.

    I was so happy that my wife and I got to miss it, but then a friend of ours starts, like, livechatting it to my wife over texts! So by the end of the 4th, my wife was following it on Twitter.

  28. bobneptune

    The clips took a page out of the Knick KP trade book…. they had a good asset they didn’t feel was deserving of anything close to the max, yet would probably command the max as a UFA and dumped him for a very handsome return. Beautiful asset management. When Jerry West does it he is a genius (he actually is). When Perry does virtually the same thing there is widespread (OMG! ) among the pseudo-cognoscenti…..

  29. Hubert

    I’m a little sad this morning. I feel like Mitch has been discovered and now there is no way he will be left out of any trade for Anthony Davis. I wanted him to stay injured past the trade deadline so we can pass off overhyped youngsters like Smith and Knox instead.

    The conversation surrounding Porzingis was about whether or not it would feel less authentic if we won with free agents instead of him. I was a resounding “I don’t give a shit”, but that’s mostly because I never attached to Porzingis.

    If we win and Mitch isn’t part of it, I will be sad. I do not want him part of an Anthony Davis trade, as illogical as that may be. But it might not even be that illogical, because he’ll probably be undervalued in that trade. I think he’ll be valued as the long-shot throw in who might come good. The Mozgov of the trade, if you will. Ten cents. Whereas he should be valued as blue chip prospect who is the centerpiece of the trade. 50 cents.

  30. Max

    @34
    I don’t know if this means anything, but multiple reliable sources confirmation could be something.

    Last summer Jordan wasn’t very popular as a free agent, maybe this is reflected in this season lack of effort and evident stats hunting (remember when he elbowed Luka for a rebound?).
    I don’t think he’s still a 20M/yr player but on a short and cheaper deal…

    @37 Our FO did very good in the KP trade, The Logo has a longer track record ;-)

  31. bobneptune

    As far as buying out any of Kantner, Matthews or Jordan, if they want out they have to take a haircut > the cash value of a #2 pick since the teams that like them weren’t willing to the price of that fungible asset. The team that gets them for “free” has to pay something….. and they might need a carcass before 6/30 in a trade…..

  32. Farfa Post author

    When Jerry West does it he is a genius (he actually is). When Perry does virtually the same thing there is widespread (OMG! ) among the pseudo-cognoscenti…..

    It’s also about KP being a media darling (and that itself is a byproduct of being a freakishly tall human being who jumps and shoots in New York): his perceived value is much higher than Harris’.

  33. Ntilakilla

    I was so happy that my wife and I got to miss it, but then a friend of ours starts, like, livechatting it to my wife over texts! So by the end of the 4th, my wife was following it on Twitter.

    The sad part is that 76% of the American public polled by CBS approved of his message, while 72% approved of his ideas on immigration – ideas from a man who has caged thousands of children as prisoners in concentration camps. Trump is a very dangerous man. Not because he is a fascist. I don’t think his ideology is coherent enough for that. He’s dangerous because he represents an aesthetic of right-wing transgression which makes it increasingly acceptable to treat people as less than human in our popular discourse. Every platform he is given allows for it to become more thinkable that we divide segments of the human race into categories of unpeople.

  34. Ntilakilla

    When Perry does virtually the same thing there is widespread (OMG! ) among the pseudo-cognoscenti…..

    So true. Part of the reason we can never have nice things around here.

  35. Hubert

    DSjr vs. Frank: It’s over.

    Yes and no.

    Dennis Smith is a better basketball player than Frank, I have absolutely no doubt about that. But I don’t think translates into him being a more useful piece on a good team.

    You referred to Smith later on as “a poor man’s Starbury”. I fucking hated Starbury. There’s a reason he never won.

    Frank is bad. But if he just develops a three point shot and can stand in the corner and hit it at a 40% clip, he’s much more likely to be a starter on championship team than Smith will be.

    Smith is a guy who needs the ball in his hands to be effective, but he’s not one of the 100 best players in the league with the ball in his hands, so that’s a problem.

    I would really like to see them together, though. And yes, it’s shocking that Frank was drafted ahead of him. Frank was a late 1st / 2nd round prospect. Smith was at least worth a lottery pick.

  36. bobneptune

    I’m a little sad this morning. I feel like Mitch has been discovered and now there is no way he will be left out of any trade for Anthony Davis.

    He was discovered in the summer league if anyone was paying attention as you could see the athleticism jumping off the screen and also by anyone looking at his advanced stats during this season. He is certainly more valuable than any 2 pieces the Lakers have but if he goes in a trade for AD…. I mean…. WTF!!!

    If he is part of the coming core I am fine with and look forward to it as his absolute floor is Clint Capella. He is also amazing locked in for 3 more years at the minimum….. WOW…. give Perry a little credit all the haters.

  37. thenoblefacehumper

    Frank is bad. But if he just develops a three point shot and can stand in the corner and hit it at a 40% clip, he’s much more likely to be a starter on championship team than Smith will be.

    Here’s why I will never understand this reasoning; is there a single player in the league to whom this doesn’t apply? I mean if we just decide that DSJ is a 40% 3PT shooter, we might have Damian Lillard on our hands!

    The idea that Frank is a good shooter stems solely from the fact that he hit 27/67 3PA in the Euroleague. That’s it. That’s why people think this might be a thing. 27 made shots from a different distance. Every other data point we have points to his shot being a major weakness. FWIW he also hit 27/42 FTA over there, good for a 64% FT%. In the NBA, he has 267 3PA at 31%.

    So I don’t think it’s a particularly useful exercise to think of the kind of player Frank could be if he learns to do something he’s shown no ability to do.

  38. Hubert

    He was discovered in the summer league if anyone was paying attention as you could see the athleticism jumping off the screen and also by anyone looking at his advanced stats during this season.

    Of course. But last night, NBA twitter started talking about how much New Orleans likes Mitchell Robinson. That’s a new level of discovery. A week ago, while he was injured, I could have envisioned a trade with the Pelicans that didn’t involve him. Now it would be gross negligence on New Orleans’ part not to include him.

  39. Hubert

    And you know what, call me crazy, but I don’t want to include Mitchell in an AD trade. FOR BASKETBALL REASONS.

    We’d have a better team with Kyrie, Durant, Mitchell at $1.5mm and $45.5mm worth of support than with Kyrie, Durant, AD at $47mm, and assorted veteran minimums.

  40. Ntilakilla

    The idea that Frank is a good shooter stems solely from the fact that he hit 27/67 3PA in the Euroleague. That’s it.

    I actually think he has a nice shooting form, which was also the scouting take on him coming out of France.

  41. Farfa Post author

    We’d have a better team with Kyrie, Durant, and Mitchell at $1.5mm than Kyrie, Durant, and AD at $47mm.

    It’s actually possible. But I’d like to see Mitch being force-fed minutes from now to really think it’s feasible.

  42. Early Bird

    I would love to see Frank sit in the corner while DSJr is playing. Unlike anyone we’ve had since Lin, DSJr forces the defense to collapse which opens up the corner shot. Literally the one thing we’ve wanted to see Frank do. Plus, no way can he play worse than Wes is right now.

    Also, yeah literally all the young players on our team are a 40% 3pt shot away from being useful: Knox, DSJr, Trier, Frank, Mudiay, Ron Baker, and Mitch Rob(UNICORN!). Actually, Frank may be the one player who isn’t. One Knickerblogger did the math a while ago and he still ended up well below an average TS%.

  43. Farfa Post author

    You guys are more bullish on MitchRob than Lonzo Ball?

    Me, totally. Mitch is having an historical rookie season (in limited minutes, but on a super-sucky basketball team).

  44. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    The clips took a page out of the Knick KP trade book…. they had a good asset they didn’t feel was deserving of anything close to the max, yet would probably command the max as a UFA and dumped him for a very handsome return. Beautiful asset management. When Jerry West does it he is a genius (he actually is). When Perry does virtually the same thing there is widespread (OMG! ) among the pseudo-cognoscenti…..

    There is a 0% chance that Harris becomes a star two-way player. He’s a scorer.

    There is a small chance KP becomes a franchise caliber two-way player and an extremely good chance he’s a star two way player (2nd option behind Doncic that also impacts the game on defense). He’s a lot better player than Harris now if he would just reign in his usage and shot selection.

  45. Hubert

    The main thing I hate about the Sixers trade is that the Clippers are on the same track as us, but they have more assets, better management, and an equally desirable city for NBA players (probably more desirable if weather is a factor).

  46. Early Bird

    On the other hand, Harris hasn’t missed a year and a half due to injury. The Knicks didn’t have to throw in WP best player ever, Boban Marjanovic. The Clippers didn’t acquire a prospect on DSJr’s level. Philly didn’t dump two dead weight contracts.

  47. Farfa Post author

    The key thing about the Clippers is them not having the space to sign two max free agents outright. If they can’t make that space, KD should be ours (if he moves at all, that is).

  48. Ingmarrrr

    she doesn’t know anyone on the Knicks anymore, of course, as they trade everyone constantly

    lol they do. Complete disfunction. I wish it was easier to create gifs like this from organizational slapstick. This team deserves it.

  49. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    As far as I can tell, DSJ was bad in Dallas and is still bad. He’s a negative defender and he doesn’t score efficiently enough to add value on offense (plus his basketball IQ is at least suspect) . He’s still young enough to become a plus player, but the path to plus player for him is tougher than what Frank has to do.

    Frank is going to be a plus defender. All he has to do is not be a disaster on offense (hit 3s) and he’ll be a very useful piece on a team that already has 3 star scorers.

    DSJ has to improve his offense by enough to be a star scorer and also at least get his defense up to neutral to be a plus player. If he can’t do that, we don’t need or want his 20 points a night.

  50. kevin5318

    Frank may be a bust but DSJr is fools good who’ll cost a dumb team 25 mill a year. Hopefully it’s not us.

  51. Owen

    Jerry West for MVP

    There is no substitute for a good GM.

    I feel like this “everyone hates Perry” idea is a little strange. If you want to say we should stop reserving judgment and get really excited about him, fine. But this guy is still the GM working for Dolan and Mills.

    There is no question he hit a home run with Mitchell Robinson. If he trades Knox for something real he will definitely have my attention.

    Brian – My wife has completely checked out after a brief bout of interest during Linsanity. She looked up at the screen and said, I don’t know any of these players. I then replayed all 6 minutes of Mitch for her. Going to take a lot more to get her back in the fold. She does love KD though….

  52. Ingmarrrr

    This one has me on the floor every time. It’s really what the Knicks are about for the past 2 decades, jumping up and down without any basketball related context.

  53. Brian Cronin

    This point annoys me. From Kevin O’Connor, “If Butler and Harris both re-sign this summer for the max or near-max deals, this Sixers core will soon become super expensive. In 2020-21 the cap is projected as $118 million, and Butler, Harris, Embiid, and Simmons alone could cost up to around $130 million. Massive investment.”

    Wait, so when the luxury cap is $142 million, the Sixers will have $129 million devoted to their four best players? How is this a problem?

  54. bobneptune

    That’s a new level of discovery. A week ago, while he was injured, I could have envisioned a trade with the Pelicans that didn’t involve him. Now it would be gross negligence on New Orleans’ part not to include him.

    Not true .I read in multiple places weeks ago the Pels were on him from his HS days around Louisiana and didn’t have a pick before 51 and tried to trade up for him.

    He’s no secret to anyone following the league analytically and he was a top 10 prospect last year before he disappeared from WKU

  55. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    This one has me on the floor every time. It’s really what the Knicks are about for the past 2 decades, jumping up and down without any basketball related context.

    You’re going to trigger swiftandabundant.

    This point annoys me. From Kevin O’Connor, “If Butler and Harris both re-sign this summer for the max or near-max deals, this Sixers core will soon become super expensive. In 2020-21 the cap is projected as $118 million, and Butler, Harris, Embiid, and Simmons alone could cost up to around $130 million. Massive investment.”

    Wait, so when the luxury cap is $142 million, the Sixers will have $129 million devoted to their four best players? How is this a problem?

    I wish we had that problem.

  56. Early Bird

    DSJr is 21. PGs take more time to reach their peak than other players. DSJr struggles with efficiency and TO’s. Efficiency and TO’s are the two most likely facets of an NBA player’s game to improve. We have DSJr on a rookie contract for 2 more years.

    If he hits threes like you hope Frank hits threes, DSJr is not that far off from being Kyrie Irving. Unlike Frank, DSJr is shooting on the better side of .300 from 3. Why is that more likely? Even if it is, wouldn’t you rather have that DSJr than that Frank?

  57. Brian Cronin

    Brian – My wife has completely checked out after a brief bout of interest during Linsanity.

    While everyone, of course, rightfully loved Linsanity, the team she was the most into was the pre-Melo deal team. Once they basically traded that entire team away, she pretty much checked out (except for Linsanity because, well, come on, who could check out during Linsanity?). She also naturally bore a grudge against Melo. Probably the thing she knows most about the Knicks is how much she hated the Melo deal. Hopefully next year’s team brings enough stability that I can say, “See this star player? He will actually be here for the next couple of years. And he is actually really amazing, unlike, you know, Melo.”

  58. thenoblefacehumper

    He’s still young enough to become a plus player, but the path to plus player for him is tougher than what Frank has to do.

    Frank is going to be a plus defender. All he has to do is not be a disaster on offense (hit 3s) and he’ll be a very useful piece on a team that already has 3 star scorers.

    See, this is delusional. Frank Ntilikina has a -5.2 BPM. He has a .419 TS%. Whatever the maximum amount of distance away from “good player” is, that’s how far he is from it.

  59. Brian Cronin

    Have we not talked about John Wall yet? How did I miss the news until now?

    He fell at his house and ruptured his already infected post-surgery achilles! How insane is that?!

  60. Early Bird

    Someone ran the numbers on Frank he needs to hit 50% of his 3’s to reach an average TS%. That is not close.

    Can we get a link on the side that goes to a reserve of Andrea Bargnani GIFS?

  61. bobneptune

    You guys are more bullish on MitchRob than Lonzo Ball?

    Is this a serious question? To quote Shakespeare from Julius Caesar…”It is like comparing a Hyperion to a satyr…”

    Pick the metric of your choice and forget all the hype:

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Mitchell+Robinson&player_id1_select=Mitchell+Robinson&y1=2019&player_id1=robinmi01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Lonzo+Ball&player_id2_select=Lonzo+Ball&y2=2019&player_id2=balllo01&idx=players

  62. Brian Cronin

    I like that Boban Marjanovic is, like, attached to Tobias Harris. This is the second time they’ve been traded together.

  63. Owen

    Brian – We need your wife running the Knicks!

    Wall got some coverage here yesterday. General agreement that is now the worst contract in the NBA.

    Re the Sixers and them having an “expensive” team with Butler, Harris, Embiid and Simmons, how much money did they salt away during the Hinkie rebuild years? They had to have been making some serious money – weren’t they running near the floor?

  64. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    He fell at his house and ruptured his already infected post-surgery achilles! How insane is that?!

    I wonder if he’s more upset that he can’t play or that it’s hard to navigate the VIP area in a walking cast.

  65. Brian Cronin

    They had to have been making some serious money – weren’t they running near the floor?

    They were under the floor at least one of those years (when they had Jason Richardson on the team seriously just so that he could soak up some cash).

  66. bobneptune

    He’s a lot better player than Harris now if he would just reign in his usage and shot selection.

    If my mother had balls she would be my father…. I’m guessing with 153M in his pocket his sense of entitlement won’t shrink…. And he is just a bit of an injury risk, No?

  67. DRed

    With DeAndre I’m not sure if he doesn’t give a fuck on defense or if he just can’t move like he used to. He has lots of reasons to try this year because he’s heading into free agency but he basically just stands near the hoop waiting for rebounds on defense.

  68. Brian Cronin

    With DeAndre I’m not sure if he doesn’t give a fuck on defense or if he just can’t move like he used to. He has lots of reasons to try this year because he’s heading into free agency but he basically just stands near the hoop waiting for rebounds on defense.

    He’s obviously not as spry as he once was, but when a rebound comes near him, he seems like he’s 21, so I think it sadly is mostly just an effort issue.

  69. Brian Cronin

    Que?

    Lot of trade scuttlebutt out there, but a little news for the offseason. Don’t be surprised if Knicks target #Celtics forward Marcus Morris, who will be a FA. And another former Piston about to get paid.

  70. Hubert

    Here’s why I will never understand this reasoning; is there a single player in the league to whom this doesn’t apply?

    Yeah, all the ones who aren’t plus defenders.

  71. MBunge

    caged thousands of children as prisoners in concentration camps

    It’s always amusing to see people use a phrase in a way that proves they don’t understand what it means, but this stuff is why young people think “The Holocaust” is a death-metal band.

    Mike

  72. Z-man

    “And yes, it’s shocking that Frank was drafted ahead of him. Frank was a late 1st / 2nd round prospect. Smith was at least worth a lottery pick.”

    Isn’t saying this in retrospect the same as saying”it’s over?”

  73. Farfa Post author

    How does Lonzo Ball get approximately the same rebounding percentage as Mitch (and a higher DRB%)?

    Mitch hasn’t yet learned not to jump at every instance of a shot being hoisted. That leaves him completely out of position on defense rebounding.

  74. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Mitch is the only untouchable rookie-contract player I can remember playing for the Knicks since the Layden era. He is, without a doubt, the most valuable asset on our team and one of the best contracts in the entire league. He is owed $5M over the next three full seasons and his final year is a team option.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2018.html

    Sort by VORP, and then look at the minutes totals next to each player.

    “And yes, it’s shocking that Frank was drafted ahead of him. Frank was a late 1st / 2nd round prospect. Smith was at least worth a lottery pick.”

    Take me back to the 2017 draft and I wouldn’t spend the #60 pick on him. Wouldn’t even sign him as a UDFA.

  75. Hubert

    Isn’t saying this in retrospect the same as saying”it’s over?”

    Not really. Frank’s ceiling is a 5th man. Smith’s ceiling is a #1 option. Draft is typically based on ceiling. So on draft night, it should have been Smith.

    The question today is if we’re going to put together guys like Kyrie and Durant, who is more worth keeping. I think they’re both equally distant from their respective ceilings, I just think Frank’s is lower and easier to get to. And if he gets to it, I think he’d be valuable on that team.

    If we strike out on free agents, I’d rather play Dennis Smith and would be ok traded Frank for a 2nd rounder.

  76. Knick fan not in NJ who thinks our rookies will lead us to a lousy lottery pick in 2019

    Mitch is the only untouchable rookie-contract player I can remember playing for the Knicks since the Layden era. He is, without a doubt, the most valuable asset on our team and one of the best contracts in the entire league. He is owed $5M over the next three full seasons and his final year is a team option.

    You realize this means he is certain to be traded right away.

  77. Owen

    Yeah, Robert Williams has got some gaudy shit going on on his B-Ref page.

    He also has two All-NBA nicknames: Boo Butt and Time Lord.

    Trading Mitch will be exquisitely painful. I don’t know, maybe I am missing something with him. Maybe there is something about young guys getting out there for low minute outings where they are just lob and block hunting and getting numbers that don’t really reflect true value.

    Still, I know I haven’t seen anything like Mitch in a long time in a Knicks uniform.

  78. Brian Cronin

    Looking at the rafters last night, do you folks think that the Knicks will retire Melo’s number?

  79. Knick fan not in NJ who thinks our rookies will lead us to a lousy lottery pick in 2019

    John Wall probably is the worst contract in the league right now. But I doubt he is the worst contract in league history. For a Wizard example, think Gilbert Arenas.

  80. Hubert

    Looking at the rafters last night, do you folks think that the Knicks will retire Melo’s number?

    Is King’s number up there? I think my answer to the Melo question is whatever the answer to that one is.

  81. rama got that Fizdale Magic

    @93 I hope so, if only we can set the Garden on fire and watch it burn…
    OK, I didn’t hate him THAT much, but I did hate the trade that brought him here, and only grudgingly accepted he could be a decent player when he was healthy and tried hard. Which lasted two years or so.

  82. Brian Cronin

    John Wall probably is the worst contract in the league right now. But I doubt he is the worst contract in league history. For a Wizard example, think Gilbert Arenas.

    I don’t necessarily disagree, but it’s funny that in his entire career, Arenas made thirty million less than what Wall will make the next four seasons.

  83. Owen

    Looking at the rafters last night, do you folks think that the Knicks will retire Melo’s number?

    Cmon B. Don’t do this to me.

    Mike, if you are reading. Might be time to take the Porzingis shirts down and get the Mitch Lob shirts prepped for after the trade deadline.

  84. Brian Cronin

    Is King’s number up there? I think my answer to the Melo question is whatever the answer to that one is.

    No, the Knicks have been relatively stingy with retiring numbers. Only Frazier, Barnett, Monroe, McGuire, Reed, DeBusschere, Bradley, Ewing and Holzman. They’ve only retired one number in the past 27 years!

  85. Brian Cronin

    Cmon B. Don’t do this to me.

    He’s seventh on their all-time scoring list despite only being here for, what, seven seasons (and one of them was only after the All-Star Break and another one he missed half the season due to an injury).

  86. rama got that Fizdale Magic

    Freaking Logo, man, you know he’s making one more trade and then has space for 2 maxes. I do believe Kawhi is going there…which takes at least one of the few players worth a max off the board.

  87. rama got that Fizdale Magic

    They’ve only retired one number in the past 27 years!

    That seems fair, given the players we’ve had during that time.

  88. Farfa Post author

    I don’t think they should retire Melo’s number. But, then again, I never liked him as a Knick (that’s more on the Melodrama than on him. I actually loved him in his first years in Denver).

  89. Ntilakilla

    It’s always amusing to see people use a phrase in a way that proves they don’t understand what it means, but this stuff is why young people think “The Holocaust” is a death-metal band.

    I know the term well, but you apparently don’t. Its appearance in the English vocabulary arises from the Spanish-American War, where rural noncombatants, in the Philippines and especially Cuba, were concentrated by the military authorities in areas surrounding the fortified towns, and later were reconcentrated in the smaller limits of the towns themselves, known in Spanish as “reconcentrados.” A few years later the word then kicked around to South Africa during the Boer War to describe the first “concentration camps” – refugee camps for civilians who were fleeing the ravages of their country’s war against the British.

    Today, the standard definition of a “concentration camp” is:

    a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution.

    Considering that a majority of the people being herded like cattle into “migrant detention centers” are 1.) persecuted refugees fleeing war-torn countries in Central America 2.) are being housed in abominable conditions, operated by 3.) a billion dollar for profit private industry that exploits their internment for gain as part of the prison industrial complex I’d say the term is pretty spot on for what we’re seeing today.

    Rebut.

  90. ess-dog

    I feel like this AD trade has to happen specifically because of Mitch. I think he’s the best prospect out there (better than Tatum, who is regressing), and we are going to need AD to confirm a 2nd star.

    I would miss Mitch too, but it’s pretty hard to turn down an AD offer. Oddly, DSJ can’t be traded with another player, but we could send him there in a separate deal. Mitch, Knox, Kanter, the 2 Mavs picks, and our first and second this year should do the trick (and DSJ for Darius Miller in a separate trade).

    It might be smart for N.O. to instead ask for swap rights on this year’s pick, so when we get AD, we will keep tanking and they would keep the odds of getting Zion.

    Jeez, that’s a lot if they end up with Zion, too, but I just can’t believe that the NYKs would pass on a chance to get AD into the Garden bc of ticket sales, playoff revenue, etc.

  91. Farfa Post author

    I do believe Kawhi is going there…which takes at least one of the few players worth a max off the board.

    Kawhi was always going to go there (if he left Toronto). Problem is that if they have two slots they might snatch KD. Anyway I don’t think they have the assets to make a trade for Davis. Our youngsters suck (apart from Mitch and sometimes Trier) but at least we have a boatload of them. The Clippers could send what, SGA, Thornwell, Robinson, and Harrell? While Harrell is a very good player and SGA is a nice rookie, they don’t tip the scales. Being a Knick rookie makes you more shiny by default.

  92. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    There’s too much NBA news to be arguing with white-nationalists about the semantics of the border crisis, wherein even one child separated from her parents is too many. They focus on word choice so they don’t have to acknowledge the ineffable, irreversible trauma their god-emperor’s administration is inflicting on children to “teach a lesson” to parents thinking about seeking a better life north of the border. No matter what you call what’s happening there, it’s harming children, and Republicans don’t care. Stop arguing about it.

  93. alsep73

    Unrelated to us, but the Pistons and Bucks just swapped Stanley Johnson for Thon Maker in a change of scenery challenge trade.

  94. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    John Wall probably is the worst contract in the league right now. But I doubt he is the worst contract in league history. For a Wizard example, think Gilbert Arenas.

    Very hard to pick a single worst contract in league history because of the fluidity of roster, salary cap and trade-availability dynamics. Even today, it’s hard enough to pick one (Wiggins, Hayward, Jrue Holiday, McCollum, Whiteside, Wall, Wiggins, Love) despite our collective engagement with league news.

    It’s damn near impossible to try to plant ourselves in, say, 2003 and determine opportunity cost ex post facto.

    I guess we could use VORP against salary as a facile barometer. That’s probably what I’d do, because I’m basic.

    Wait, Wiggins is shooting .482 TS% with a career-worst BPM? Hahaha, nah, Wiggins is the worst.

    At least John Wall can’t lose games for the Wiz while he’s not playing.

  95. Owen

    It might be smart for N.O. to instead ask for swap rights on this year’s pick, so when we get AD, we will keep tanking and they would keep the odds of getting Zion.

    I do love this idea. That the Knicks would trade their pick and then just start winning games like crazy.

    Sadly, there is no tanking going on here. We just have a horrible horrible roster.

    Also, I am giving the Ringer trade value column featuring Kevin Knox anywhere on the list 0.0 stars. It’s terrible.

  96. ess-dog

    I mean, let’s be realistic: The Pels are really going to wait and trade AD at the end of the season and have him play a lame-duck half-season in N.O. after they took him off all promotional material?

    I don’t think so. This is happening, and I would assume they’d want rebuilding parts unless they can get another “star” who’s under contract for a while AND who’s on his preferred teams list, and none of those teams have that. I suppose they could be working on a 3-team trade right now to get a guy like idk… Towns? Lillard? Not sure who would be made available in a trade like that.

  97. Farfa Post author

    Unrelated to us, but the Pistons and Bucks just swapped Stanley Johnson for Thon Maker in a change of scenery challenge trade.

    An early contender for “most inconsequential trade of 2019”.

  98. Ntilakilla

    No matter what you call what’s happening there, it’s harming children, and Republicans don’t care.

    Totally disagree here and this stance part of the larger problem. A lot of what we’re seeing here is a straight up case of sugarcoating a lot of the nasty vile practices in politically neutral terminology that’s designed to make up look down, wrong seem right, and war seem like peace. It’s pure Orwellian garbage. Concentration camps have been called “detention centers.” Lies are called “alternative facts.” And all of it is designed to make people feel better about the shitty stuff our government does on a daily basis. So debating these terms do matter because if you don’t you’ll end up with a Trump State of the Union Address where 72% of American people actually agree with a man who is selling them on the idea that its okay to treat thousands of people like human cattle as long you don’t call a “concentration camp” a “concentration camp.”

  99. ess-dog

    I do love this idea. That the Knicks would trade their pick and then just start winning games like crazy.

    C’mon, you know what I mean. I mean pass the Cavs and the Suns in the win column, not snatch a playoff spot.

  100. Knick fan not in NJ who thinks our rookies will lead us to a lousy lottery pick in 2019

    Brian, you make a good point. It is amazing how much Wall will make.

  101. swiftandabundant

    I think the AD trade happens and he goes to the Lakers because the Lakers have to get AD.

    If they don’t and they miss the playoffs and then strike out in a big FA this summer or worse, The Clippers grab AD and then add Kawhi this summer…the Lakers are totally screwed. Lebron is still Lebron when he wants to be but its clear he is on the decline and without a major FA or two to help him, he can’t take a team in the West to the Finals by himself. Heck, he may not be able to even make the playoffs by himself and his supporting cast is too young and even with improvement maybe not good enough to lift them up. The Lakers will throw in another pick if they have to.

    I want us to snag two big free agents this summer. KD and Kyrie is actually my least favorite pairing of the major 4 (KD, Kyrie, Kawhi, and AD, who isn’t a FA but is on the market). But I almost want the clippers to pull this off and then get Kawhi this summer and just watch the Lakeshow totally implode.

  102. rama got that Fizdale Magic

    KD and Kyrie is actually my least favorite pairing of the major 4 (KD, Kyrie, Kawhi, and AD

    Who’s your favorite pair? I’d go with AD and Kawhi, b/c age and 2-way players.

  103. rama got that Fizdale Magic

    I mean, KD is an all-time great, and I’d be happy to have him, but then we have a 3-year window instead of maybe 6-8 with AD and Kawhi. (More AD than Kawhi.)

  104. thenoblefacehumper

    The question today is if we’re going to put together guys like Kyrie and Durant, who is more worth keeping. I think they’re both equally distant from their respective ceilings, I just think Frank’s is lower and easier to get to. And if he gets to it, I think he’d be valuable on that team.

    I understand the logic here but I don’t think it’s the proper way of viewing the situation. If we get two max players, the rest of the team is going to have to be comprised mostly of rookie contracts/minimum deals/exceptions. That means we’ll be starved for production out of those spots. Even if DSJ’s style of play isn’t an ideal fit with KD et al., he’s much more likely than Frank to be an NBA player. That’s what we’ll need most out of the other 10 roster spots if we land two big fish.

  105. Bruno Almeida

    Wall was a decent player when healthy, he is obviously grossly overpaid and was before this injury, or even when he signed the extension in the first place, but he was a productive player who could contribute to wins.

    Andrew Wiggins is a player I would pay to NOT play for my team, there’s no question he’s the worst max player in the league. In terms of smaller deals you could argue about contracts like Mozgov, Biyombo, but they’re not so impactful now.

  106. ClashFan

    @72

    Is this a serious question? To quote Shakespeare from Julius Caesar…”It is like comparing a Hyperion to a satyr…”

    Perhaps you are thinking of the first soliloquy in Hamlet? From Act I Scene II:

    …That it should come to this!
    But two months dead: nay, not so much, not two:
    So excellent a king; that was, to this,
    Hyperion to a satyr…

    He’s comparing his dead father to his new “father,” his uncle Claudius.

  107. Hubert

    Ntilikilla, if you want to keep trying to turn a vibrant basketball thread into a divisive political forum, I’m going to cook 100 hamburgers over a coal-fired grill and throw them in the ocean with plastic straws.

  108. Brian Cronin

    Kevin Knox to replace Lonzo Ball in the Rising Stars Challenge because, you know, Mitchell Robinson apparently sucks.

  109. Ben R

    The only way I move Robinson is for AD and he would be a big part of that trade. Robinson is our Rondo. Boston gutted their team to build their big 3 but they kept Rondo and he was a big part of their success more important than Allen. I would still move him for AD but I think he is a better asset than anything LA or Boston can offer for AD.

    As for DSj vs Ntilikina I would take Ntilikina all day. I not only think he will be better in the future I think he contributes more to winning now. Scoring the ball he is terrible but with his low usage it isn’t as bad as it could be and he is very good defensively. Barring injury, in two years I think Ntilikina will be a starting quality NBA player I would put money on it. He is our best guard, not saying much but we play better with him on the court than any other guard we have.

  110. thenoblefacehumper

    Also, if the plan is to sign two max players, it sure would be nice to have Mikal Bridges instead of Kevin Knox right about now…

  111. swiftandabundant

    AD and Kawhi for sure for the reasons you mentioned. But any combo of Kawhi, AD or KD would be good for me.

    I mean, Kyrie is great. Don’t get me wrong. But the knee worries me and he is more of a score first PG than a facilitator and I worry about him being another Marbury in NYC, especially under Fiz.

  112. Kevin Udwary

    Kevin Knox being bad to mediocre is about the least surprising thing about this season. You mean to tell me someone who didn’t pass, rebound or score efficiently in college wasn’t going to start doing all those things in the NBA???? Who could have guessed that! He was so good in 3 on 3 practice!

  113. JK47

    You can’t really play in the NBA if you struggle to crack a .400 eFG%. Yes, I know, our beloved Frenchman has “good form” on his shot or something, but when he throws the ball at the basket, he misses 65% of the time. This is why he would have to add .050 to his WS48 just to get to zero. He’s beyond replacement player bad. He’s like “parody of a bad NBA player” bad.

    Frank is probably the most egregious case I’ve seen of KB posters squinting their eyes at a dog turd and convincing themselves it’s a hot fudge sundae.

  114. Hubert

    Also, if the plan is to sign two max players, it sure would be nice to have Mikal Bridges instead of Kevin Knox right about now…

    The amount of times I’ve thought this.

    Then I think, maybe phoenix would do Knox for Bridges. Then I remember we probably wouldn’t do it on our end.

  115. Frank O.

    Anyone else wondering if the Knicks were to get AD, would it be a Pyrrhic victory on order with the Melo trade.
    We’d have to give up so much that the team would be gutted and AD’s body breaks down.
    It’s why the Lakers walked. The Pelicans just have ridic demands.

  116. Brian Cronin

    I worry about him being another Marbury in NYC, especially under Fiz.

    Underrated in the Knicks awfulness is that they got D’Antoni two years before he would’ve been helpful and they are about to go all in on winning a year too late to get Budz.

  117. marechal

    So what’s the best outcome for the Knicks regarding the AD situation:

    1) Traded to Lakers.
    2) Traded to Knicks for a bunch of assets now.
    3) Not traded at the deadline, giving the Knicks a chance to trade for him after signing two max guys (but also allowing the Celtics to get in on the trade, and make a more credible effort to keep Kyrie + AD).
    4) ?

  118. cgreene

    Is anyone interpreting the lack of an aggressive offer from our FO for Davis as an additional sign of their confidence on KD? Otherwise not sure why they wouldn’t want to get one in the boat. First one is always the hardest. Unless they tried again and were rebuffed. But figured we would know that by know based on all the leaks and reporting.

  119. JK47

    Well, they tried a Porzingis-centered package for AD and that didn’t work, so I imagine it’s not going to be a whole lot easier selling them on a package that doesn’t include Porzingis.

    As great as AD is, I don’t want to gut the team for him. NYK needs to hold onto its 1RPs. You’re going to need cost-controlled pieces to put around the marquee free agents, if they actually do come here.

  120. geo

    Ntilikilla, if you want to keep trying to turn a vibrant basketball thread into a divisive political forum, I’m going to cook 100 hamburgers over a coal-fired grill and throw them in the ocean with plastic straws.

    that was some funny shit right there….

    I like that Boban Marjanovic is, like, attached to Tobias Harris. This is the second time they’ve been traded together.

    i’m not quite sure what an apt description for boban would be – but, he’s got a pretty neat personality…

    him and tobias actually do some media together: https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/737464/boban-marjanovic-tobias-harris-launch-their-own-show/

    okay – so, still a ways to go in the season, but, looking forward – i have a feeling the 76’s will hold on to tobias and let butler walk…despite jimmy’s better play (particularly on the defensive end of things), i would do the same…

  121. the don nelson era

    we’d probably have to include that Rockets 1RP in a trade to clear Knight’s salary for next season – it might not even be enough – and Chriss sucks

  122. Brian Cronin

    Plus I would bet that Houston thinks that they can get Matthews to sign with them when he is bought out.

  123. thenamestsam

    Do the people who are still fully on-board with Frank think that he’s an elite defender now, or just that he will become one eventually? Because a big part of my problem with him is that I’m not particularly sold on the non-offense parts of his games, especially for someone so singularly bad on offense. He doesn’t rebound, he gets way less steals and blocks than you’d expect given his length, his on/off stats mostly stink this year, and he certainly isn’t acing my personal defensive eye-test. If your theory of him is that he “just” needs to become adequate on offense (which he’s a long, long way from) you’re either seeing something in the rest of his play that I’m missing or also projecting a lot of growth for him in other areas.

  124. nicos

    Plus I would bet that Houston thinks that they can get Matthews to sign with them when he is bought out.

    I really hope the Knicks started him last night as a last ditch attempt to say “hey, we love Wes and we’re going to keep him on the roster” as a way of getting somebody to pony up a second round pick. Once the trade deadline is over he has no business being on the roster. I can see keeping Jordan around to mentor Mitch- I seem to recall DJ being similarly press shy early in his career but I could be wrong- my guess is he asks for a release and the Knicks give it to him before March playoff roster deadline.

  125. er

    Frank is probably the most egregious case I’ve seen of KB posters squinting their eyes at a dog turd and convincing themselves it’s a hot fudge sundae.

    This is hilarious, yet true. Smith has been here 2 games and impacted a game in a way that Frank May never come close to.

  126. swiftandabundant

    Personally, I can’t wait for Frank to come back so I can see Frank and DSJ play TOGETHER. I feel like they could be a good pairing (at least as far as flawed young players go).

  127. Zanzibar

    er is like the woman who continues to be attracted to the wrong type of guy and never learns. Melo…drose (for Prez)…and now Smith. The moment an inefficient chucker joins the team, he resurfaces. I won’t even try to talk him out of it… no, I won’t mention Smith’s 45 TS as a Knick, or negative WS/48 as a Knick, or -4.8 bpm as a Knick. He’s smitten.

    Problem is Perry’s smitten. This summer we’re headed for 4-way shootout at the OK Corral. There’s the Logo to our left, Danny the Kid to the right, and the GOAT and his posse (don’t @ me) straight ahead. I’m not optimistic.

  128. Grocer

    Do the people who are still fully on-board with Frank think that he’s an elite defender now, or just that he will become one eventually?

    I think he’s a good defender right now but he certainly needs to do better at generating some counting stats to be elite. That might be steals, I doubt it’ll ever be rebounds and I certainly don’t think it’s a given. I do wonder how much trying to turn him into a PG has fucked up his development. Keep playing him on the wing, and make him work on his shot this offseason but come on. You can’t play 4 on 5 basketball even if you’ve got 4 stars. Frank’s future looks so bright right now he should be investing in night-vision goggles.

    Also it feels like he picks up minor injuries pretty damn easily and they keep him out for longer than they should.

  129. Hubert

    I’m beyond perplexed by the narrative of LA has enough to offer for Anthony Davis and the Knicks don’t unless they win the lottery.

    I don’t want to trade Mitchell, but he’s better than any two of their prospects. Smith is as good as their best prospect (Lonzo). Our 2019 pick (even if top 1 protected) is better than Kuzma or Ingram. And Dallas’ picks are better than theirs.

  130. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    Re: DeAndre Jordan,

    1) He probably stopped trying hard the second he realized he wasn’t playing meaningful basketball. If we somehow clear enough cap space to grab him along with Irving and Durant, I’m pretty sure he’ll be back to playing active defense and dunking everything.

    2) We shouldn’t buy him out just because he’s the only center on the roster who understands spacing and can set a real screen. Let’s see what Frank and Dennis can do when they have a guy who clears their defender.

  131. Hubert

    Do the people who are still fully on-board with Frank

    There’s hardly anyone “fully on board with Frank.” The two main groups are

    a) Fully Off Board

    b) Not ready to give up yet even though it’s bleak AF

    I’m in group B, simply because he’s only 20 years old. If he posted these numbers at 22, I’d be out.

  132. d-mar

    So in an alternate universe where we draft DS Jr. and Dallas drafts Frank and throws him into the KP trade, are we in the same place today?

    Just a thought…

  133. ess-dog

    Oh I thought Knight was expiring and we would obviously cut Chriss. Well, maybe Sacto will give us something.

  134. er

    er is like the woman who continues to be attracted to the wrong type of guy and never learns. Melo…drose (for Prez)…and now Smith. The moment an inefficient chucker joins the team, he resurfaces. I won’t even try to talk him out of it… no, I won’t mention Smith’s 45 TS as a Knick, or negative WS/48 as a Knick, or -4.8 bpm as a Knick. He’s smitten.

    Hmm I don’t even like Dennis Smith. Nice try though. Frank just sucks. That’s all. Don’t be such a loser all your life bro.

  135. Zanzibar

    Yeah right, just a coincidence you happened to post at this time. You had plenty of opportunity to voice your opinion of Frank before and your comment implied you were enamored of Smith’s 11-25 shooting. Stop being in denial.

  136. JK47

    Frank and DSJ are two completely different flavors of suck. There’s plenty of shitty basketball to go around from both of them! You don’t have to choose! Just wait until they play together, it will be like a two-headed tank hydra.

  137. Frank O.

    I’m beyond perplexed by the narrative of LA has enough to offer for Anthony Davis and the Knicks don’t unless they win the lottery.

    I don’t want to trade Mitchell, but he’s better than any two of their prospects. Smith is as good as their best prospect (Lonzo). Our 2019 pick (even if top 1 protected) is better than Kuzma or Ingram. And Dallas’ picks are better than theirs.

    Hubert,

    I think you got this about right.

  138. er

    I can post when the fuck I want ,thanks dad. Also I didn’t imply anything l. I said what I said. As bad as smith was, I doubt frank will ever be that impactful on a game. Learn to comprehend.

    I also think Knox sucks… I’ve said both early in the season. Not sure why you are in your feelings so much.

  139. Zanzibar

    I’m beyond perplexed by the narrative of LA has enough to offer for Anthony Davis and the Knicks don’t unless they win the lottery.

    I think it’s possible NO might like Lakers package more than Knick’s offering because they don’t want to be in a complete rebuild in that market. Mitch/Knox/2019 pick would be viewed more as projects versus Ball/Hart/Kuzma/salary relief. However, in this regard, the best option for NO might be to put out a starting lineup next autumn of Holiday/Brown/Tatum/Mirotic/Williams.

    I imagine Perry’s offered Mitch + 2019 pick unprotected + a lot more to NO. It would be a terrible PR hit to the FO if NY didn’t end up with at least 1 star. Brow would probably ensure KD or Kyrie as well. BTW I think if they hadn’t stretched Noah and he could have been included in Mavs deal, we could have had juuust enough money to sign both KD and Kyrie after trading for the Brow.

  140. Frank O.

    Of course, the Pelicans are behaving like a team that won’t trade AD before the trading deadline.
    I think they are waiting for summer and hoping something changes.
    And I think I heard someone saying the Celtics practically begged the Pelicans to wait until summer when they are in a better position to deal.

    I love AD, I just don’t want the Knicks to again gut themselves to get a guy, who is great, but who also has a history of injuries…when they may be able to get him without gutting their young guys.

    And I am not ready to throw the towel in on Frank, Jr., is still a young player and I’d like to see those two guys play in a backcourt together.
    With the right leadership and a team with potential to win I think both would be a tough defensive back court.

    A lot of ifs in there, but with young guys, there are always ifs.

  141. Ingmarrrr

    Just wait until they play together, it will be like a two-headed tank hydra.

    Should be gifable too. Nobody can touch Bargs though.

  142. TheOakmanCometh

    The Tobias trade was doubly bad for us. The Clips were one of the only viable trade partners for DeAndre, but now they’re sellers and won’t have any interest. The Sixers were one of the teams that could most use Wes, but now that’s not going to happen.

  143. thenoblefacehumper

    I must concede, even as someone who is DSJ-curious (compared to most here, anyway), that er liking him is extremely on brand.

  144. DRed

    Idk, they think he’s more useful than Ryan Anderson and it will save them a million or two dollars?

  145. Brian Cronin

    Idk, they think he’s more useful than Ryan Anderson and it will save them a million or two dollars?

    I think it is purely the latter, as Anderson will make less than Johnson next year. It’s the Heat that get to save a few million (which matters, since they were in the luxury tax) while the Suns get someone who maybe might have some sort of role on the Suns next year unlike Anderson.

  146. Brian Cronin

    How?

    Biggest city in the country and a great sports market. It’s like printing money even if you have a terrible team like Dolan normally does.

  147. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Frank is probably the most egregious case I’ve seen of KB posters squinting their eyes at a dog turd and convincing themselves it’s a hot fudge sundae.

    OMG I literally LOL’d for like 20 seconds at this one.

    Problem is Perry’s smitten. This summer we’re headed for 4-way shootout at the OK Corral. There’s the Logo to our left, Danny the Kid to the right, and the GOAT and his posse (don’t @ me) straight ahead. I’m not optimistic.

    I’m more optimistic because the Knicks are not only armed with assets right now, but could win the most attractive asset of anyone come May.

    I’ll also put it this way: even if the other gunslingers in this showdown have better reputations and history (they do), the Knicks are headed for the showdown regardless. I’ll argue that Perry gives the Knicks the best shot of any Knicks’ exec we’ve had in the past 18, 19, maybe 20 years.

  148. DRed

    I think Anderson’s salary is 20 million next year but only 15 million is guaranteed, so Miami can cut him and save money. I guess Phoenix thinks Johnson is more than 4 or 5 million more valuable than Anderson.

  149. nicos

    Smith isn’t a terrible defender- he’s about average. PIPM has him at neutral (0.0), rpm has him as a negative but 44th out of 97 point guards, and dbpm has him as a slight negative. By all three measures he’s rated higher than Frank. I do think Frank is probably better defensively but not by all that much. Smith ain’t Trey Burke or Mudiay on that end.

  150. er

    I must concede, even as someone who is DSJ-curious (compared to most here, anyway), that er liking him is extremely on brand.

    Boy who else wants to hop on my meat today. Sheesh!

    Furthermore there needs to be a comprehension test or something.

  151. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Boy who else wants to hop on my meat today. Sheesh!

    So… do you think Carmelo will earn a starting spot on a playoff contender?

  152. thenoblefacehumper

    Lord give me the confidence to be aggressively wrong about everything over a period of multiple years and then come right back guns blazing

  153. Brian Cronin

    The Pistons have reportedly offered Reggie Jackson and a first-round draft pick for Conley. However, the Grizzlies want Luke Kennard and it appears Detroit’s front office isn’t willing to include him in the deal, according to Jones.

    That sounds like a weird hill to die on, no? Kennard would have to improve to be mediocre.

  154. thenoblefacehumper

    This Bulls-Wizards trade is so weird. Why are the Wizards trading one of their few good, young players for garbage? And what exactly do the Bulls plan on doing for the next two seasons in which Porter is signed?

  155. nicos

    I’m kind of surprised Conley is getting so much interest- he’s still got 67m coming to him after this season and has been injury prone. He is very good (though not 33.5m good) and I guess Detroit is going to be capped out anyway and doesn’t have a whole lot of other options to improve so he might be worth a gamble. He’s light years better than Reggie Jackson.

  156. dtrickey

    Definitely seems like an odd move for Washington. I mean I guess Parker’s contract is off the books come the end of the season, but are the Wizards really going to be players in FA with Wall expected to be out for over a year?

  157. Brian Cronin

    This Bulls-Wizards trade is so weird. Why are the Wizards trading one of their few good, young players for garbage? And what exactly do the Bulls plan on doing for the next two seasons in which Porter is signed?

    I guess the Bulls plan on spending money this offseason and they see Porter as being part of their future? It’d be interesting to see Porter as a featured player. I have no idea what the Wizards are thinking, though. If they just wanted to get rid of Porter, you would have to think that other teams could take him and give the Wizards picks.

  158. Brian Cronin

    I’m kind of surprised Conley is getting so much interest- he’s still got 67m coming to him after this season and has been injury prone. He is very good (though not 33.5m good) and I guess Detroit is going to be capped out anyway and doesn’t have a whole lot of other options to improve so he might be worth a gamble. He’s light years better than Reggie Jackson.

    Yeah, it would be one of those “in for a penny, in for a pound” deals for Detroit. I can see it being a weird move for them, but if they do want him I don’t see how they could let Luke Kennard be the reason they don’t get him.

  159. thenoblefacehumper

    So uh did the Sixers know a player arguably of Harris’ caliber was available for the price of Bobby Portis?

  160. DRed

    Porter is, or at least was, a really good player, and he’s young enough that this year might just be a year when everything went wrong, but if you’re the Bulls you’re at best paying him fairly to be good in two seasons that you’re not going to contend, so I don’t really get it. But on the other hand they got what they can reasonably hope to be a good player for nothing but money so why not?

  161. dtrickey

    Per Woj, it looks like the Rockets are sending a 2019 lottery protected 1st to the Cavs with Chriss and Knight . I think Alec Burkes is going to the Kings and Shump is off to the Rockets.

  162. ess-dog

    Pretty good deal for the Kings. What the hell is going on??

    I guess if the Kings can turn it around, that gives the Knicks hope.

  163. Brian Cronin

    Pretty good deal for the Kings. What the hell is going on??

    Isn’t it just Shump for Burks? Burks isn’t that good, is he?

  164. geo

    Anthony Davis Sr. was hypercritical of the Celtics but he may prefer the Knicks over the Lakers, and his opinion could be a factor.https://t.co/Yq0eF4YAU7 pic.twitter.com/Z11UNLVjU5— Lakers Nation (@LakersNation) February 7, 2019

    this should be a part of every thread from here on out:
    “Boston… I would never want my son to play for Boston after what they done to Isaiah Thomas…. NO LOYALTY… guy gives his heart and soul and they traded him… anyone can print that,”

    i don’t think i can wish enough bad shit on to that team…

    of course – that was a great move by ainge (kyrie’s own health issues notwithstanding)…

  165. ess-dog

    He’s way better than Shump but yeah, he’s average at best. But he gives Sacto decent wing depth at no price.

    It’s weird that the Clips are just giving up a playoff spot for a better shot at the market next year. I get it, but remember how hot they started the year? They were a top-2 team for a while. I know they made the right move, it just seems like a problem with the system.

  166. DRed

    Before the recent trade flurry Woj tweeted that we’re going to start buyout negotiations with Enes on Thursday

  167. dtrickey

    Shump is somehow still worth a first round pick.

    Late 1st rounder all being said, but yeah apparently he is. Although it seems like Houston have been desperate to unload 1st round picks since the Butler trades were being discussed.

  168. Brian Cronin

    Wait, so Knight IS expiring too? Ok yeah, that’s weird.

    Knight is not. So this clears Knight from their cap for next season, which is huge (just from a luxury tax perspective).

  169. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    This Bulls-Wizards trade is so weird. Why are the Wizards trading one of their few good, young players for garbage? And what exactly do the Bulls plan on doing for the next two seasons in which Porter is signed?

    I think the Wizards shave ~$33M over this year and next, not to mention the $28.4M option that Porter would be a fool to pass up in 2020-21. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Beal get moved before the end of July, either. The John Wall contract is going to fully fuck them, but they weren’t winning shit either way. (Can’t believe the Wizards felt so beholden to Wall that they offered him the supermax two full years before it was due to kick in. What a horrible contract!)

    I don’t understand it from the Bulls’ perspective. Parker is a scrub and maybe they sign-and-trade Portis in the offseason? No idea what his trade value would be, but I think Portis is also a scrub.

  170. Bruno Almeida

    Shumpert does make sense for Houston, and the Rockets have shown they don’t give a shit about their firsts anyway.

    I don’t understand what the Bulls are doing but I never do with Forman and Paxson, I guess they don’t care about having extra cap space anyway so they’re just looking to set up a core around LaVine, Porter and Markkanen going further? I like Porter still, even though he’s not playing so well this season, so I guess it could be said that they got a decent player for nothing of value.

  171. Bruno Almeida

    How the fuck did the Bucks score 50 (!!) in the first against the Wizards what the hell.

    THJ is already 3/9 for Dallas, I think their fans will veeery quickly realize what we realized long time ago.

  172. TheOakmanCometh

    Rockets did pretty well to get off Knight’s contract. They dumped him and picked up a rotation player for a late pick.

    The Porter trade doesn’t make much sense from Chicago’s perspective. Why would a terrible team want to eat up $27m on a mediocre player who can’t generate offense and isn’t a lockdown defender? A core of Carter, Lauri, Porter, Lavine, and Dunn wins how many games?

  173. ess-dog

    That Chicago front court could become fairly nice, but the back court is awful. Maybe they’ll get Morant and some shooters and grow a decent team?

  174. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    Mavs fans are gonna be pissed when December KP follows November KP and Tim Hardaway Jr’s plantar fasciitis keeps coming up as an excuse.

    The more I think about this trade is the more I realize the chance that we robbed Dallas is way higher than the chance that we will regret this deal.

  175. alsep73

    Stein:

    Anthony Davis has the Knicks on equal footing with the Lakers in terms of teams he is interested in signing with long-term, @NYTSports has learned. The Clippers and Bucks also remain preferred destinations on his list

  176. d-mar

    You know, Phil Jackson was not only a terrible GM, but he’s a big reason why that whole “nobody wants to play for the Knicks” thing became a common refrain around the NBA

    Nice to see that has changed

  177. chriskZIPCODE

    I think the porter deal means 1 less team that can offer a max and compete with us. I think the Tobias deal means Philly is keeping at least 1 of their 2, and doesn’t have room. would be sweet if they keep harris, let Butler go, and somebody else signs him.

    I’m cool making an offer for davis, but not until we know where this pick is.

  178. chriskZIPCODE

    Boy who else wants to hop on my meat today.

    Like if we get the 2nd pick, so no Zion, I’d offer the pick, Frank, Knox, and the opportunity to ride Er’s meet for AD.

  179. cgreene

    So the Knicks are presuming they can make the best offer for AD once they find out what their pick is and if it’s Zion they want to be able to keep it? Otherwise why not make a strong offer for AD now? It’s obvious the Lakers are out for the moment.

  180. Bruno Almeida

    What the hell are the Kings going, goddamnit. The Kings were my favorite team to watch this season and now they add HARRISON BARNES, who’s so bad I don’t even remember him when I list the worst contracts in the NBA… what the hell Vlade, we thought you were pulling your shit together.

  181. dtrickey

    Holy hell. Kings just traded ZBo and Justin Jackson for Harrison Branes………while Barnes is in the middle of a game. NBA is brutal sometimes.

  182. Bruno Almeida

    The Kings are also playing, which makes it extra weird, if the trade itself wasn’t weird enough.

    It seems a lot of teams are making moves for the sake of it, what a weird deadline it has been.

  183. thenoblefacehumper

    I kinda hope that Frank is traded for picks tomorrow because if he’s on the books this summer and we land the #1 pick, we’d have to renounce Kornet (or trade DSJ or Knox, both of which seem unlikely) in order to have two full max-slots. I think Kornet has a better chance to be a contributor than Frank (because 2% > 0%) so I’d rather a Frank trade. Kornet could be a nice piece on a team with max guys and scrubs.

  184. DRed

    I’m some idiot nobody and I’ve managed to figure out 4 years before a lot of highly paid professionals that Harrison Barnes is a thoroughly replaceable basketball player.

  185. ptmilo

    i’m mentally preparing for cuban to come out of nowhere and sign KD killing us from every available angle

  186. DRed

    If we strike out on the marquee free agents this summer I won’t even be that mad until we do the thing where we sign the shitty free agents to marquee contracts

  187. chriskZIPCODE

    please don’t trade frank now while his value is low. if anything, start him when he gets back, hope he shows a little uptick and maybe boost his value.

  188. DRed

    I forget who I was listening to-the dunked on guys, or bill simmons, or zach lowe-someone was talking about Harry Barnes being a good fit for the Kings in a trade and I laughed because I couldn’t imagine a team being dumb enough to trade anything for him. It’s wild that Dallas is a smart team because they found someone to take the stupid contract they gave Barnes off their hands. If you trade for Barnes instead of, say, Wes Matthews, it has to be because you want Barnes for more than just this season, which is insane at his price.

  189. Hubert

    God dammit. I spent the whole year thinking we could trade Hardaway to Sacramento, too. I knew they’d do something dumb.

  190. JK47

    Barnes only has one more year left on that stinky contract, but it’s for $25M. Player option.

    Seems like the guy they already had, Justin Jackson, was pretty much the same player at a fraction of the price.

  191. Brian Cronin

    Woj says that the Kings are trying to convince Barnes to stay long term. Dudes, he is not going to opt out!

  192. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    I will cackle if they convince him out of the player option to take something like $80M over 4. I will cry with laughter.

  193. Hubert

    They were the sucker all year who was going to bail someone out of a bad contract. You could tell from the minute they offered Lavine that awful contract. They didn’t care about overpaying.

  194. dtrickey

    Hmm. Dotson trade rumors?

    Pretty sure there was a bit of buzz about him last trade deadline as well.

  195. TheOakmanCometh

    The Bulls today lost at home to a floundering Pelicans squad that was without AD and whose starting backcourt consists of Frank Jackson and something called Kenrich Williams.

    Otto Porter should fix all that though.

  196. Hubert

    The Barnes thing strikes me as being unneccessarily focused on positional archetypes. He’s built like a small forward, they don’t have a small forward, ergo he’s a fit… even though he’s not good.

  197. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    I don’t think Otto Porter will do much for the Bulls but he might help them pull out a close win or two. Circle 4/1 and 4/9 in your calendars, boys.

  198. dtrickey

    Looks like the Wizards are just dumping what they can ATM. Morris and a future 2nd to the Pels for Wes Johnson.

  199. TheOakmanCometh

    Dotson is a guy who could be a rotation player on a team built around two max free agents. He ‘s not actually good but he plays his role well and has no major weaknesses. I’d rather trade Knox or DSJ, who will have trouble fitting into a superstar team.

  200. Jack Bauer

    LOL Harrison Barnes – well said, have to agree

    Dallas with 30 million in cap space stealing KD – Not LOL

    Some of these trades are really WTF stuff.

  201. NahNahNahWeAreGoingTheOtherWay

    Just came to go on the record and say I liked the KP trade. Although now I live in fear that management does something really stupid with the money. Something stupid is coming. Someone here once said that the Knicks can only be enjoyed as a farce, a comedy of errors. Hope. It’s dangerous. My heart. Tearing apart.

  202. Jack Bauer

    @255 – if true that is taking trolling to a new epic level.

    As a sincere Laker hater I love it. A big FU to the Lakers, Magic, and AD’s agent. Some adversity and a big helping of humble pie will do all of them and their fans some good.

  203. abk

    Mitch, Knox, Kanter, the 2 Mavs picks, and our first and second this year should do the trick (and DSJ for Darius Miller in a separate trade).

    Holy hell that seems like too much to give up. What’s Mitch worth, at least two firsts? So that’s like 5 1st round picks (one already being all but guaranteed to be in the top 6 selections of this upcoming draft), Knox, Smith, and 2 2nds? Or essentially like 7 first rounders worth of value? I don’t see the point of giving up every last asset the team has for one year of AD before he’s unrestricted, cap space or not.

  204. alsep73

    It was Zach Lowe on his podcast with Kevin Arnovitz who suggested Barnes to the Kings. Zach is generally very smart about this stuff, so if he thinks Barnes could improve the Kings, I’m not going to instantly laugh it off.

  205. Z-man

    Barnes is at best a placeholder. But who knows? Maybe some of that GWS stuff rubbed off on him and he can be a “veteran presence” and a decent rotation player for the Kings over the next 2 years, and maybe they are smart enough not to overpay him on a long-term deal. Since no big-name FAs are going there and they already burned this year’s pick, what the hell?

  206. Z-man

    All I want to have happen today is for one of the three big expirings to net a 2nd round pick from someone. But the lovely sound of crickets would be fine.

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