Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, August 21, 2019

Dallas Mavericks 114 – New York Knicks 90 – Haiku time

Hoo boy, such a shitfest. I’ll say it clear right at the beginning: no recap this time. It doesn’t make any sense to recap this flaming turd of a game, where nobody played well and, ahem, we got a case of crowd-pleasing schizofrenia from our coaching staff.

About that: in the third quarter, somebody in the crowd started a “we want Kanter!” chant for no apparent reason. It’s the third game in a row that happens, and unless there is a really dedicated Turkish community that routinely sends a representative to every Knicks game until Enes gets bought out, I’m calling trolling on that one. Sadly, Fizdale (or whoever is in charge of those things) listened to that and absurdly budged from his position of “nope, not playing Kanter, even if it means starting Lance Thomas”. We then got treated to 9 nonsensical minutes of play from Enes (who by the way proceeded to airball his first shot while someone in the crowd kept on clapping for him) to no avail. It was like seeing a pity-date performed in basketball terms. “Yeah, you know, I ditched Sandra a month ago, but since then all of her friends keep calling me to give her another chance, soooo… Three days ago I went for a cup of coffee with her, but only because I had a Starbucks coupon. Haven’t called her since”. Truly embarrassing.

Anyway, since we’re deeeeep in a stretch of games where there’s nothing to recap, I decided (inspired by a comment from chrisk06811) to write a haiku for some of the most “notable” Knicks out there. Up to you to guess which one is who. I know nobody will give a damn, but I’ll post the solution at 11:30, ET.

***

“Candle light on hardwood
Sometimes the flame will scorch the earth
Awkward floaters abound”

***

“Misty eyes, mighty fears
The past teaches nothing
Defense nowhere around”

***

“Circle, jump, any dream
Limbs flailing through every ocean
No-one chants, who cares”

***

“Stepping stones, doors ajar
Basketball failures queued up
Defensive slides?”

***

“Ghost town, heart of glass
Imagination defying
Purpose unknown”

***

“Electricity
shock then nothing ever is
Wait for the fourth”

“Calm wind, violent breeze
Draw a foul, you’re welcome here
Separate from people”

***

“Slippery brows sigh
Wizard, twenty sided dice
Saving private Ryan”

***

“Life, playground or not
Does a board make any sound?
Roll me pick me dead”

***

“Fate, a mask revealed
Oedipal itches. blushing
Keep bombing away”

***

On the basketball side of things, a few notes:

– Playing Vonleh center is a death knell for him on this team, apart from very specific situational small ball lineups where he can be effective. As a starting center he’s playing a lot less minutes and he’s playing a lot worse than he was doing before. When does Kornet come back?

– Impressive stat shown by MSG: Trier draws fouls on 11.1% of his drives (14th in the whole League. I don’t remember who’s 1st, my boy Gallo is 2nd). You know who’s tailing Trier? James Effing Harden at 10.8%. Punch me in the face for having suggested Trier was happy to have cashed in.

– Mitch Robinson in the last three games: 3 blocks per game, 1.3 (!) personal fouls per game, only 20mpg. What the hell?

– Bonus fact about Mitch Lob: as we all already noted, for the season Trier is his best assist-man with 17. Next one is Frank with 10. Then nobody (nobody) has more than 5 assists to Mitch, and the 5 assist man is Noah Vonleh. This has to be the most depressing stat about our PG committee.

– I seriously second-guess the choice to keep playing THJ. I don’t know if he’s hurt or not, but since it’s extra clear that we’re on a singleminded tanking mission, just sit him for a few games. Let him get his game straight or whatever (I hope he’ll get traded altogether, but I’ve learned to stay grounded).

– No, sorry. last bonus fact about Mitch: it appears he’s the first player ever to have blocked a Luka step-back three attempt. I politely remind you he also blocked two such shots by Harden. Told ya, if someone kept track of blocks on three point shots Mitch would already be in the top 20 of all-time.

Guys, I take a little break. I’ll be back for the Detroit game, maybe the last with Enes in a Knicks uniform?

 

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218 comments on “Dallas Mavericks 114 – New York Knicks 90 – Haiku time

  1. John Starks won game 6 (in my mind).

    Farfa!

    So grateful for your recaps to start the morning.

    I won’t be able to read your quiz answers through my tears of laughter, but I’ll try …

  2. Hubert

    1. Great work.

    2. I know you’ve said previously that you ignore game threads so they don’t influence your write up. Does that mean that you and ChrisZIPCODE were both moved to write Haiku independently while watching this game??

    chrisk06811
    January 30, 2019 at 9:41 pm

    Dirk In
    Garbage Time
    Hits meaningless 3
    Makes me sad
    for Dirk
    and I

    Hai Koooooo mother fuckers.

    If so, that is either some serious synchronicity or maybe there was some subconscious spark in the game that both of you picked up on.

  3. Farfa Post author

    I know you’ve said previously that you ignore game threads so they don’t influence your write up.

    That’s totally true. It has also to be said that after the games stopped being watchable I have forsaken that rule. Right now I maintain it only when games are actually entertaining :)

    Last thing, I credit chrisZIPCODE (which is a great name) in the recap!

    Anyway, since we’re deeeeep in a stretch of games where there’s nothing to recap, I decided (inspired by a comment from chrisk06811) to write a haiku

  4. Owen

    Good stuff Farfa!

    And good for Luka for letting Dirk take the spotlight in his final game at MSG. I kid, sort of an unimpressive performance from the lad but I think he will be alright….

  5. rama got that Fizdale Magic

    So is that 9 players to guess, Farfa? I have a few…too few to mention… But will take a shot at it in a bit.

  6. d-mar

    My son was at the game last night, and we were texting back and forth about how dreadful this team is. He’s totally on board with the tank, but that game was just a giant cluster fuck of a loss to a mediocre at best team. He also said he started screaming at the idiots chanting “We Want Kanter”

    To cheer him up, I said “Imagine you’re sitting there next year at this time watching Zion, KD and KP light up MSG” His response was “Or maybe I’m watching RJ Barrett, Kemba Walker and KP lead us to a magnificent 38 win season and the 9th spot in the Eastern Conference”

  7. wetbandit

    Ok, since we basically have all the same player with different height, I’ll take a stab:

    – Candle light on hardwood: Kanter kissing the floor like a fking idiot?

    – Sometimes the flame will scorch the earth: Fire is apt for Burke, because although it is hot one moment, you’re left burnt, worse off, and in pain every time you try to shower yourself.

    – Awkward floaters abound: Knox. Come on dude, you’re tall and strong.

    – Misty eyes, mighty fears / The past teaches nothing / Defense nowhere around: Timmy, going 0-5, and shooting a 35-footer off the dribble with a hand in his face

    – Circle, jump, any dream / Limbs flailing through every ocean: If ever there was a description of Lance…

    – No-one chants, who cares: Dotson, we know why. I want to actually be a fan, but it’s always just… there.

    – Stepping stones, doors ajar / Basketball failures queued up:

    – Ghost town, heart of glass / Imagination defying / Purpose unknown: Now this has gotta be a great description of a Mudiay drive towards the paint.

    – Electricity shock then nothing ever is: Hezonja, stepping over Giannis, who then snaps his finger, and Hezonja vaporizes.

    – Calm wind, violent breeze / Draw a foul, you’re welcome here: Trier is both calm, violent, foul-savvy, and welcome here.

    – Wizard, twenty sided dice / Saving private Ryan: If anyone on the roster can look like both a wizard, and a Private Ryan, it’s Kornet. I can only imagine Tom Hanks battling through a war and finding Kornet on the other side, then trying to put him in a lineup.

    – Life, playground or not / Does a board make any sound?/Roll me pick me dead: This is Frank, trying to play while working out life’s complexities, not getting a board, and playing the pick and roll and winding up dead.

    -Keep bombing away: everyone.

    I like Vonleh, I love Mitch, and we owe KP for the double-dip, so they are not mentioned.

    I forgot about Lee as I often do.

  8. Farfa Post author

    I thoroughly love the in-depth work, wetbandit! But each Haiku is for one single Knick. That said, you were right on a couple of them (you nailed one, like, perfectly).

  9. Frank

    by the way did y’all know Mitchell Robinson is 2nd in the league in DBPM at +5.4, which is greater than Rudy Gobert. Nerlens Noel leads at +6.3, which, by the way would be a top 10 DBPM season of all time if he keeps it up.

    So the top 2 DBPMs so far are a guy on a minimum contract and a 2nd round rookie who didn’t go to college.

    It’s a little weird that Mitch can’t rebound the ball on the defensive glass – FWIW he had the highest rebounding rate in EYBL history (20 rebounds per 40 – 8 offensive and 12 defensive). Not sure whether it’s due in part to him being on the perimeter so much, but would he be the first player to have an ORB>DRB?

  10. Frank

    Feels “great” to be the #1 tank seed right now. If you ask me there is 1 guy I would be ecstatic to draft (Zion of course) and 4 guys that I’d be happy with — Ja Morant, RJ Barrett, Jarrett Culver, and Deandre Hunter. Having that #1 pick would put us in line to get one of those guys.

    I would avoid Cam Reddish and Nasir Little like the plague (but what do I know).

  11. Farfa Post author

    I think if we land outside of the top 2 trading the pick (trading down or packaging it with THJ for a disgruntled star) might be the best course of action.

  12. Farfa Post author

    10 and 40 hell.
    Wretching, kvetching. And for what?
    1 in 7 chance.

    Just think if we tanked properly last year. :(

  13. Owen

    Mitch is funny. I watch him and try to figure out why he doesn’t get more boards. He’s so thin I think he has trouble holding rebounders off. And he definitely is not quick off the floor. When he jumps, it’s like he unfurls like a sail, while other guys are more like a coiled spring exploding off the deck.

    Still, he blocks out the sun and I wouldn’t change anything about him. I am all in on Mitch Lob. Hasn’t been anything like him in Knicks land since maybe Anthony Mason, in terms of an out of nowhere surprise. Lin was a little more of a flash in the pan as a Knick.

    Speaking of former Knicks, the obvious comp is Marcus Camby who, like Mitch, had a 12% rebound rate in his rookie year and then scaled up to the low 20%s in his prime. It would be pretty amazing to find the next Camby in the second round.

  14. vincoug

    “Candle light on hardwood
    Sometimes the flame will scorch the earth
    Awkward floaters abound”

    “Awkward floater”, has to be Knox.

    “Misty eyes, mighty fears
    The past teaches nothing
    Defense nowhere around”

    Really could be just about anyone on the team but I’ll go with Kanter.

    “Fate, a mask revealed
    Oedipal itches. blushing
    Keep bombing away”

    Hardaway, definitely.

  15. mase

    Ja Morant is a really good consolation prize if we don’t get the first pick… but probably plan for #5, cuz we are always fucked somehow

  16. Farfa Post author

    Just to keep my word, here’s the solution to all of the haikus:

    1) Knox. Vapid like a candle light, sometimes a powerful fire. The floaters were a giveaway.
    2) THJ and/or Mudiay. I think I’m developing anxiety about Mudiay’s extension.
    3) Mitch. Circle, jump, any dream: his vertical actions near both rims are stuff of dreams. Still, nobody chants for him (but they should).
    4) Frank. We thought it would have been a development season, but it’s a string of failures. Still, his defensive slides are mostly ok.
    5) I loved wetbandit’s interpration, but it’s Lance Thomas. As empty a contributor as they come.
    6) Mario. Electric but useless (until the game is completely out of hand).
    7) Clearly Zo. The “separate” part was a nod to “Iso”.
    8) It’s Fiz! Wizard = Fizdale magic. Twenty-sided dice: the emblematic die for playing at Dungeons and Dragons. Saving Private Ryan is a nod to the tank (even if it gets blown up).
    9) Enes. The “life” thing is a nod to his Erdogan-themed feud. His boards are empty, the pick and roll is pretty clear.
    10) UniKornet! The mask, ok. Oedipal: his mom is hot (not suggesting that he has feelings for her. It’s a transfer for the reader). And he bombs away with abandon.

    Thanks to everyone who played!

  17. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Mitch is funny. I watch him and try to figure out why he doesn’t get more boards. He’s so thin I think he has trouble holding rebounders off. And he definitely is not quick off the floor.

    The same is true of KP. KP also doesn’t have particularly strong hands. When he does go up in traffic and get a rebound players know to immediately try to strip him. They seem to take rebounds away or knock the ball away and keep it active more often when he gets it. Both should get a little better as they get stronger.

  18. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    I hope we get to see more of Ja Morant against high level competition before we draft him.

  19. wetbandit

    I don’t know what people see in RJ Barrett (Wiggins), Cam Reddish (3/D with inconsistent shooting?), Ja Morant (actually like a little, but a PG who doesn’t shoot well? Don’t we have a lot of that?), and Nasir Little (What does he do well, again?).
    After Zion, I’d go with Culver (good shooter, good defender, yay), Garland (great shooter, injury), De’Andre Hunter (reminds me of Vonleh), but I’d probably trade the pick for quantity if the right trade was available. 5-15 you could have teams picking the above overvalued guys, and you can end up with two of these guys, Romeo, Hayes, I really like Jontay Porter as a homeless-Jokic type, Bol, Syrvydis, or even Morant. I don’t really like Rui either.

  20. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Just think if we tanked properly last year. :(

    I’ll try to ease your pain a little.

    If we tanked properly last year and picked up a much better player than Knox, we wouldn’t be 10-40 now and in as good a position as we are to get a star this year.

  21. ess-dog

    Yeah, without MitchRob this season would be completely unbearable. I’m sure his rebounding will improve, but it could be tough having him work next to KP who is an abysmal rebounder.

    BUT…

    If you can slot Zion in at sf, then you probably have your rebounding covered. You still need guards, of course, but maybe Kyrie comes here to boost his acting career?

  22. vincoug

    @22

    I understand what people see in RJ; your Wiggins comparison is spot-on and there are people who still think he can be a good player. I like Morant and his FT% implies that there’s room for improvement in his 3P%; he’s probably my #2 in this terrible draft. I don’t get what anyone sees in Nassir Little, who’s been pretty damned mediocre, or Cam Reddish who’s been legitimately terrible. What’s even weirder is that Little has dropped on most draft boards but most places still have Reddish as a top 5 when he should be a 2nd rounder.

  23. TheOakmanCometh

    The Dunc’d On guys did their mock trade deadline podcast this week and managed to complete a trade that sent AD to the Knicks. This was the swap:

    Knicks get: AD + expiring salaries
    Pelicans get: Porzingis + THJ + Lee + 2019 pick (Top 1 protected)

    I found myself really liking that deal (assuming we can get AD to commit to an extension). We’d have about $69 million to spend this offseason and a true superstar on the roster, which would hopefully lure another superstar. And our remaining contracts (Frank, Knox, Trier, Mitch, Dotson) would all be easy to shed to free up more space. It’s not hard to see Durant and Kyrie joining the Brow here, which would immediately form a championship-level core.

  24. rama got that Fizdale Magic

    I think Jowles made a good point when looking at “terrible” drafts and pointing out all the great players that came from those drafts.

    Problem being, of course, knowing what method to use to identify who those surprises are going to be…other than some hard 3-on-3 action, of course.

  25. rama got that Fizdale Magic

    It’s not hard to see Durant and Kyrie joining the Brow here, which would immediately form a championship-level core.

    It’s hard for me, especially since KD’s purported reason for being interested in leaving is wanting to “The Man” somewhere else.

  26. TheOakmanCometh

    It’s hard for me, especially since KD’s purported reason for being interested in leaving is wanting to “The Man” somewhere else.

    Point taken, although Durant is so mercurial that it’s hard to know his true motivations. Even so, he would be way more of a hero in NY than in GS. For one thing, GS already had an amazing team before he got there, so no one considered him a savior. Warrior fans are also in love with Steph, Klay, and Draymond, and never developed that same affection for KD. If he came to NY as part of an all-new crew and won us a title, he’d be completely beloved. There wouldn’t be any other pre-existing fan favorites on the roster.

  27. TheOakmanCometh

    I think it’s more likely that KD wants to join a roster of AD + Kyrie than a roster of Porzingis (coming off ACL) + THJ + rookie-scale flotsam. The former is a championship contender. The latter is a 6-seed that gets knocked out in the first round.

  28. Jack Bauer

    @7 D mar your son has an excellent grasp of the Knick situation. That was an excellent comeback,
    Kudos to him.

  29. abk

    “Ja Morant is a really good consolation prize if we don’t get the first pick… but probably plan for #5, cuz we are always fucked somehow”

    Our median pick right now is #6. Again, expectations are far too high. Picking #2 or #3 is going to be a really big win. Picking #5 is not “fucked”, it’s what we should be expecting to happen.

    “Ja Morant (actually like a little, but a PG who doesn’t shoot well? Don’t we have a lot of that?), and Nasir Little (What does he do well, again?).”

    On Ja: he is shooting pretty well though. 80% from the line both years; that tends to be more predictive than 3-pt% when looking at college numbers. He’s also forcing up a lot of shots as the by far most talented option on the offense, so I think a 33% 3-pt% is fine. 27 points per 40 on 60% 2-pt shooting and 11 assists per 40 is out of this world.

    On Nas: I’m a UNC fan and I still wouldn’t take him near the top of the draft, but come on here. He’s shooting .575 from 2-pt on 22 points per 40 as a freshman wing, that’s quite good. Almost 10 rebounds per 40. 75% free throw shooter, and his shot mechanics were praised out of high school. Something was way off with his shot earlier this year, I’m talking airballs and bricks every other attempt. It seems he may have fixed whatever it was. After going 2-18 from 3-pt over a dozen games he’s 3 for his last 6 (really 3-5 as one of those was a heave).

    We’ll see, but if he can shoot he’s a good prospect. After looking completely lost on defense he’s started to look a lot better. Dude was clearly really raw, and still doesn’t have the skillset to be a top 5 pick. Handle needs a lot of work. But jacked and super athletic 6’6″ guy who can shoot and defend should be at least mid-first round if that’s how he looks the rest of the year.

    “De’Andre Hunter (reminds me of Vonleh)”

    I think his handle and perimeter defense are quite a bit better than Vonleh. I like him a lot.

  30. Hubert

    Last thing, I credit chrisZIPCODE (which is a great name) in the recap!

    That’s what I get for doing 5 things at once.

    Credit for the name goes to Jowles, tho. It’s a good one.

  31. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Porzingis, Robinson, Vonleh, Frank, Dotson, Kornet, Trier, and La Morant is not a bad young core to move forward with.

    We have to get rid of Kanter, Mudiay, and Hardaway.

    I’m going to put Knox in his own category because he’s too young to judge, but right now he’s terrible on both sides. So far, I’d rather have Mikal Bridges even at their respective ages and stage of development.

  32. chrisk06811

    Farfa: A few notes, in reference to my post yesterday

    Hai koooooo mother fuckers

    1. i was drunk when i wrote that
    2. i am absolutely honored that my work inspired you. it has taken my poetry to the next level.
    3. unlike mine, your work are actual Haiku’s
    4. unlike me, you bothered to spell “Haiku” properly
    5. i totally forgot, until i read your recap, that katner played (see comment 1)
    6. i look forward to collaborating with you in the future; I have a working idea for a book entitled “we’ll always have Kornet-sanity”

  33. ess-dog

    Re: the Davis trade demand, I was ok with it at first, but it’s never cool to demand a trade to one place only. That’s just an unfair position to put a team in, and I wouldn’t blame NO if they just held him through his contract out of spite.
    Even just saying “either LA team” would be better so they can weigh offers. Otherwise, just play out your contract and then make your move. It’s a little gross to expect you can pick your exact destination AND get your max extension.
    That being said, who knows how accurate some of these rumors actually are. And I think a big market team would be smart to just do the trade and put a winning team together before 2020. Sadly, the Knicks don’t really have the parts to get that done unless KP agrees to resign with NO.

  34. Owen

    D-Mar – Your son sounds like he reads KB a lot!!!

    Barrett gets comped to Wiggins but it’s fair to note he’s been a better player. Wiggins was really mediocre in college, as we discussed all that year and every year since. You can’t say he was bad but he wasn’t remotely dominant in the way you expect most lottery picks to have been and his NBA career has been a satisfying validation of how overrated we all felt he was.

    Barrett is running at a .230 right now and Wiggins was at .170. And his defense is decent. He definitely is long as hell and has all the tools. He contributes more in the rest of the box score Am I excited about Barrett? Definitely not. But I don’t think I would be surprised if he ended up an above average NBA player, something I have never thought remotely likely about Wiggins.

    I mean, I hate how much he shoots. But I am not sure I would feel perfectly comfortable betting against him being one of the best guys out of this draft (not named Zion of course.)

  35. Owen

    6. i look forward to collaborating with you in the future; I have a working idea for a book entitled “we’ll always have Kornet-sanity”

    Haha….

    “What if I told you that a gawky nerd from Vanderbilt came out and hit 7 3 pointers over the Greek Freak. What if I told you that he stole Joel Embiid’s girlfriend?”

  36. thenamestsam

    Woj:

    In meeting with management today, Knicks forward Kristaps Porzingis expressed his concern with the losing, franchise direction and an uncertainty that a culture is developing that will enable sustainable organizational success.

    I mean I’ve been concerned about the same thing for 20 years. Seems like odd timing given that he hasn’t been on the court in 12 months and reinforces the idea that KP might be a little big for his britches at this point. Not sure this actually means anything in the immediate future though.

  37. ptmilo

    feel like E and Turtle didn’t like the brand implications of Vince being mentioned as mere trade bait, so they sent Drama out with a bat to change the conversation

  38. thenoblefacehumper

    This team had been suspiciously drama free for being A) the New York Knicks and B) terrible.

    Good on Kanter and KP for taking care of that promptly.

  39. Farfa Post author

    6. i look forward to collaborating with you in the future; I have a working idea for a book entitled “we’ll always have Kornet-sanity”

    Bring the booze and we’ll work something out.

    Re: KP.

    Nothing new. I don’t like his character that much, so I’m not surprised even one iota.

  40. geo

    Just think if we tanked properly last year. :(

    this anthony davis, fiz’s 3 year rebuild quip, the upcoming draft, trade deadline talk all has me wondering now – are we “intentionally” tanking next season?

    if so, when do we decide this?

    trade deadline moves (and the use of our assets), and free agent acquisitions would seem to depend mightily on whether we are sitting next season out also…

    i’m thinking if we hold on to timmy, lee, mudiay, knox, frank, future picks the rest of this season – how do we “sell” that to kp whom we may be trying to keep?

    as of right now – if i had to pick a win total for next season – maybe 25 wins…

  41. Owen

    I think Janis and the rest of the family would love the warm climate and history on the Lousiana Gulf Coast…..

    BTW, Browmageddon (which no one seems to be latching on to dammit) is supplying all the drama you could want.

  42. knickterp

    There’s a lot to be said for offering KP, the unprotected pick and THjr (for salary) to the Pels for AD right now. I’d certainly make that offer.
    First, the front office might be coming to the realization that the tear-down and rebuild isn’t going well (Frank’s a possible-to-likely bust, Knox could be nothing special, and the new lottery rules reduce the benefits of tanking). We might just be young and bad instead of young with potential.
    Second, AD is a rare talent and makes the Knicks more attractive to KD and Kyrie and anybody else out there this summer.
    Finally, the trade would be devastating to Boston—they could be left with Tatum and Hayward (who looks awful) after waiting years for AD. Kyrie could leave for LA or even NY (he’s good friends with AD, apparently). Conversely, Boston could have Tatum, Kyrie, and AD to begin next season, as they’ve long planned.

  43. wetbandit

    Let KP complain, he’s restricted, injured, with a frail frame, and was never as good as he was treated.

    I just can’t suffer through the Isola/Bondy/Beck/Berman shitshow that is now bound to start indefinitely.

    Again, I’m OK with trading KP and a protected pick for AD.

    Second-thought addendum: I hope the front office folk doesn’t take KP’s BS and shift to ‘more win-now’

  44. geo

    ball getting it out there that he doesn’t want to play in new orleans…

    kp getting it out there that he doesn’t want to play in new orleans…

    dennis smith jr leaving his team and asking for a trade…

    jr smith just leaving the team…

    kyrie moving himself out of cleveland…

    AD trying to get out of new orleans…

    butler getting himself moved out of minny…

    this is just how the nba works now…

  45. chriskZIPCODE

    just wanted to circle back and say thanks, to Hubert, Jowels, Farfa, for making my day. When I originally wrote the post “Hai Koooooo Mother Fuckers” I had no idea that it would inspire so much creativity and bring me such joy. I was just bored of watching shitty basketball.

    shout out to jowels for the improvement on my name. note that i simply changed my name, i’m not trolling as multiple people or pretending i’m a woman for 3 days or anything like that.

  46. thenoblefacehumper

    Porzingis, Robinson, Vonleh, Frank, Dotson, Kornet, Trier, and La Morant is not a bad young core to move forward with.

    We have to get rid of Kanter, Mudiay, and Hardaway.

    I’m going to put Knox in his own category because he’s too young to judge, but right now he’s terrible on both sides. So far, I’d rather have Mikal Bridges even at their respective ages and stage of development.

    If I had my druthers we’d have neither but Knox is an exponentially better prospect than Frank

  47. Frank

    I for one don’t really see the Wiggins-Barrett comp.
    In terms of #s, Barrett is just a more well-rounded player – has 2x the assist rate of Wiggins and fewer turnovers, is a better rebounder, etc. In terms of “soft” measures, pretty much everyone says Barrett is an absolute beast in terms of work ethic and attitude, and just about everyone has always said Wiggins is soft and doesn’t actually like basketball.

    I’d be perfectly content if we ended up with Barrett. Ideally Zion of course, but Barrett would be a good outcome from this terrible season.

    Re: Nasir Little – I really haven’t paid attention to him much since his tough start. Maybe he’s turned it around.

  48. abk

    “Re: Nassir Little – I really haven’t paid attention to him much since his tough start. Maybe he’s turned it around.”

    Don’t get me wrong, I still think picking him in the top 5 is a mistake unless he improves even more from where he’s at. He’s not ready to be the face of a franchise. But I think he’s a good prospect. At our pick though I think Barrett or Morant should be considered great outcomes. Of course Zion is the ideal, but a long shot.

  49. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    Nas is still putting in work over at UNC (22 and 10 per 40 with 2 assists 1.5 steals and one block per game; .191 WS/48 and 6.8 BPM) and he’s a far better prospect than Reddish (who’s now a Knox level prospect) at this juncture, but he has two major red flags in his lack of jump shooting and his simply average defense. His hype coming in was his ability to be a legit two way player with a bona fide NBA body, but his defense has been exposed to an extent in the NCAA–it’s hard to see the Kawhi comparisons that were flying around before UNC’s first game now, unless you really squint. He also isn’t particularly aggressive, probably because his handle isn’t where it needs to be, so he only converts downhill in transition, or diving in a pnr. He’ll be at least decent though, I think, and he really should be starting for UNC.

  50. JK47

    I guess Barrett might be okay as a “pump and dump” kind of asset, a guy who can take a lot of shotzz and score lots of pointzz and then hopefully be dealt for something more useful. Shooting a lot and shooting badly is not a good recipe for winning basketball and that’s really RJ’s game. He does stuff the boxscore a bit in other ways, but he’s a chucker, make no mistake.

  51. alsep73

    Woj:

    Kristaps Porzingis left the Knicks with the impression that he prefers to be traded, league sources tell @ramonashelburne and me. Knicks are expected to commence discussions on moving him ahead of next Thursday’s deadline.

    Well, looks like the trade KP folks like Jowles are about to get their wish…

  52. thenoblefacehumper

    Adrian Wojnarowski
    ?
    Verified account

    @wojespn
    3m3 minutes ago
    More
    Kristaps Porzingis left the Knicks with the impression that he prefers to be traded, league sources tell @ramonashelburne and me. Knicks are expected to commence discussions on moving him ahead of next Thursday’s deadline.

    Welp.

  53. thenamestsam

    Hm now Woj adds that KP “left the Knicks with the impression that he prefers to be traded”. Not sure how he thinks he’s going to be traded to a winning situation when he’s not even available to play. The only teams that would be interested in acquiring him at a fair price right now are going to be those mostly looking towards next year.

  54. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    I think KP is correct to be concerned. Phil blew up the team after getting off to bad a start in order to bring in a high lottery pick and start the rebuild. Things were moving along fine despite the absence of a 1st rounder the following year until Phil went off the rails for one summer. Despite that, new management was handed 20m of cap space, KP, some good young role players, and all its 1st round picks going forward. They turned that into the worst team in the NBA, a new bad multi-year contract, a 1st round pick that’s terrible on both ends of the court so far, and a much lower chance of using their cap space next year effectively because they are so bad.

    If you are a star player that values winning, how can you look at what this management team has done so far and be optimistic about being in NY long term. Eventually they’ll get it right. Every pinhead throwing darts at the lottery will eventually hit a bulls-eye given another failed season that gets written off as purposeful tank (which it wasn’t). But the idea is to slowly get better when you are handed young players, picks and 20m. They are failing miserably and he knows it even if people around here like the idea of a perpetually tanking (even if it’s not on purpose).

  55. geehee

    Woj:

    Kristaps Porzingis left the Knicks with the impression that he prefers to be traded, league sources tell
    @ramonashelburne
    and me. Knicks are expected to commence discussions on moving him ahead of next Thursday’s deadline.

    I’m done.

  56. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    That locution “left the Knicks with the impression that he prefers to be traded” is weird, but also, if that’s true, fuck him. I’d prefer to resign him to a max but if he wants to get traded to the Pelicans or Phoenix or w/e where he can then play out the best years of his career in obscurity, let him. That makes room for the Zion/MitchRob frontcourt of the future.

  57. Frank

    Honestly, I’m as big a KP fan as anyone but fuck him. Get him out of here. I don’t know where he comes off acting like this. He’s not Anthony Davis, Lebron James, Kawhi Leonard, or even Kyrie Irving. He’s still 80% potential and 20% production. How about being part of the solution as opposed to looking to eject?

  58. thenoblefacehumper

    Phil blew up the team after getting off to bad a start in order to bring in a high lottery pick and start the rebuild.

    How do you manage to do this shit with a straight face? Phil Jackson signed the largest contract in the NBA. He traded a pick to get off a $3M salary. He traded a first round pick from the previous year for Derrick Rose. He had no fucking interest in a “rebuild.” Yes, when a team he wanted to make the playoffs got off to a 5-40 start or whatever it was, he traded some of its expiring players for nothing. Cool beans. He proceeded to jump right back into trying to to win 41 games (this was his strategy via his own admission) even if it meant spending over 30% of the cap on Joakim Noah and Courtney Lee.

    It’s too bad we never got to see the triangular magic that would’ve happened if we had gotten to 41.

  59. Frank

    Now it IS possible that the FO has offered KP in AD trade talks. If that’s the case, you can sort of understand why he wants out.

    That said, test the waters and if there’s a good offer out there, maybe take it. Otherwise I’d dare him to take the QO. We’d still have Bird rights on him and would be able to pay him more than other teams if some sort of reconciliation happens.

  60. JK47

    I was looking around to see which teams might have a surplus unprotected first round pick and there are NONE. Every single future first round pick that is owed to another team has at least top 3 protection on it, and most have a lot more than that.

  61. thenoblefacehumper

    It seems like the FO wants to trade KP rather than sign him to his max. If they were really beat up about this trade request or whatever it was, they could just promise to be better going forward and have a 75%+ chance of signing him for half a decade this summer.

    Maybe they read KB?

  62. Frank

    KP, THJ, Courtney Lee, and Trey Burke for SGA, Gortat, Harrell, Avery Bradley, and a lottery-protected 1st rounder. Who says no?

    We get tons of salary relief, SGA and Harrell as young players, and a 1st…

  63. Frank

    I was looking around to see which teams might have a surplus unprotected first round pick and there are NONE. Every single future first round pick that is owed to another team has at least top 3 protection on it, and most have a lot more than that.

    there is Miami’s unprotected 2021 1st that went to Philly in the Mikal Bridges Zhaire Smith deal.

  64. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    If I had my druthers we’d have neither but Knox is an exponentially better prospect than Frank

    Only to people that overvalue offense.

    Frank is already a good defender with a chance to be excellent, a good play maker, but a horrible shooter.

    Knox is horrible on both ends but shows some aptitude for being a good player on offense.

    As bad as Frank is on offense, imo he’s clearly a superior player to Knox right now (at a similar age). His biggest flaw is the thing (shooting) that can improve a great deal with time.

  65. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    @64

    Dude, I can’t have a conversation with you. It’s a waste of my time. You don’t read my posts closely enough to understand what I am saying. Nor do you understand what was going on at the time and why. You have made up your mind. You are wrong, but that’s obviously not going to change.

  66. english_knick

    Honestly, at this point fuck KP – listen to offers. I’ve been a defender of his, albeit one that wasn’t wild about maxing him. But where the hell does he get off?

    Problem is, like I’ve said a few tones, the offers will be crappy. Injured, any team taking him has the same contract dilemma we do, and if he doesn’t like the destination he can just threaten to take the QO. May still he best to keep him, let him play on the QO next year and hope he plays well enough to send his value back up.

    What a dick.

  67. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    Hopefully Masai would be foolish enough to trade Siakam for KP or something. I doubt it, though.

    I think what we do is don’t panic trade him, let him come back and play the last 15-20 games of the season, try to pump his value up, and then trade him in the offseason if it’s clear he’s intent on taking the QO.

  68. thenoblefacehumper

    Dude, I can’t have a conversation with you. It’s a waste of my time. You don’t read my posts closely enough to understand what I am saying. Nor do you understand what was going on at the time and why. You have made up your mind. You are wrong, but that’s obviously not going to change.

    One day, when I have matured, the genius of Phil Jackson’s tenure as the GM of the Knicks will dawn on me.

    Until then, I will continue to think that winning 17, 33, and 31 games while clogging up the cap sheet was maybe uh less than stellar.

  69. thenoblefacehumper

    Also, for reference, here is Phil Jackson telling Peter Vecsey that his goal was to get to .500 which would somehow lead to “some free space to rebuild.”

  70. english_knick

    Trading him in the off-season is hard though. He has to agree where, and there are base year compensation issues too I think.

    Woj says heat, raps, clippers, nets and spurs. I predict we trade him for d’angelo Russel.

    Hard to see the raps sending us much of consequence unless they think he’s back very soon. I’d love to get SGA but think that’s a pipe dream.

    This won’t end well. Guaranteed.

  71. DRed

    @TheSteinLine

    The Dallas Mavericks are nearing a trade to acquire Kristaps Porzingis from the New York Knicks, according to league sources

  72. thenoblefacehumper

    Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
    New York and Dallas are in deep discussions on a trade that would send Kristaps Porzingis to the Mavericks and Dennis Smith Jr. to the Knicks, league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @WatchStadium.

    Jesus christ

  73. Bruno Almeida

    Fuck Porzingis. What a piece of shit. You’re not even playing dude, and when you did play you were mediocre as fuck. Now you want out, precisely before the season where we’ll have both a good draft pick and cap space to make a team around you?

    Get the hell out. I hope the Knicks keep him until the offseason, match whatever offer he gets and then trades him to the fucking Bulls or whatever.

  74. JK47

    This won’t end well. Guaranteed.

    Yeah it seems like a slice from the blade of Dolan’s Razor is headed our way

  75. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Anyone that’s happy KP wants out should set aside their views on KP’s prospects as a player at the max for a moment and try to understand the bigger picture. KP is the team’s star player. He wants out. He wants out because he thinks current management sucks. He’s right, but that’s besides the point. If KP wants out, that means no one else significant is going to want to come here either unless by some miracle they could coax 2-3 stars together with multiple moves. That means it’s very likely the rebuild will be set back another 1-2 years because out of all our young players, he’s was the furthest along.

  76. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    omglgmkoghwaeokgthaeqwlkgheaqlkgaDEHZklagedhlikaeqhjlkaqergtaqeljkgthaqe3oitfhop9i38523q145 rtu8903q85r4u7yaq13w

  77. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    per Stein

    The Knicks would receive Dennis Smith Jr. and the expiring contracts of DeAndre Jordan and Wes Matthews in the proposed trade, according to league sources

    L M A O

  78. JK47

    On the other hand, New Orleans is a very dumb team, one of the very dumbest in the league, so maybe there’s some way to get AD from them for some sort of KP-centered package.

    KP-Knox-Hardaway-Ntilikina, whoever else they want except MitchRob. And no unprotected 2019 pick either.

  79. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    we’re about to trade KP in order to clear off all the bad contracts Mills and Phil signed aren’t we………..

  80. DRed

    Draft promising young player
    Sign a bunch of terrible free agent deals
    Use the young player to clear up your terrible free agent deals so you can sign more free agents

    jfc

  81. Bruno Almeida

    So THJ and Lee have to go right?

    Oh my god this is the dumbest shit I’ve ever fucking seen WHO SAID WE SHOULD TRUST MILLS AND PERRY AGAIN?

  82. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    if that trade happens it might be one of the most brutal moments in knicks history. and that’s saying a lot.

    Guess Charlie Ward is going to be our last rookie FA signing for 5 more years or so!

  83. thenamestsam

    To be fair we have never tried using assets in a short-term quest to clear cap space for guys that are definitely not coming here before. No way of knowing whether this is an idiotic decision! (Wait that doesn’t sound right)

  84. JK47

    Dallas doesn’t even have a 1RP to send because they already sent it to Atlanta in the Doncic/Trae deal

  85. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    The only way this Dallas trade could work is if we KNEW (as in 100% no chance otherwise) that KD was coming in the offseason and we were trying to clear two max slots. Even then what the fuck.

  86. Bruno Almeida

    Dallas can send firsts in 2020 and 2022, we better fucking hope they do at the very least.

    This is so fucking Knicks my god

  87. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    Woj:
    New York has agreed with Dallas on trade that includes Kristaps Porzingis, Courtney Lee, Tim Hardaway Jr., for Wesley Matthews, Dennis Smith Jr. and DeAndre Jordan, league sources tell ESPN. Players and agents are being notified of particulars. Deal may include more draft assets.

  88. thenamestsam

    At least the last time we were rumored to be foolishly looking to deal KP it looked like the return might be intriguing….

  89. bidiong

    Trade KP somewhere shitty. What an asshole. I get the whole power to the players stuff, but this is the shit that makes watching basketball harder to do. You can’t get invested in anyone that’s good because they’ll pull shit like this. And you know if they trade him he won’t get injured for 8 years and become a 30-10-5 guy because Dolan’s Razor.

  90. Frank

    OK.

    This better be the thing where we KNOW KD and Kyrie are coming. Because if that’s the case then Kyrie, Frank, Knox, KD, and Mitchell Robinson actually makes sense on some level.

    But of course we know this is just a fantasy. I can’t freaking believe this.

  91. thenamestsam

    And it’s done. Congratulations to KP on his many forthcoming 1st team all-nba selections and to him and Luka on becoming one of the iconic 1-2 punches of all time!

  92. DRed

    Honestly the only way this deal makes a lick of sense is we absolutely know the league is rigging the lottery for us.

  93. thenoblefacehumper

    Depending on the picks…I might be in favor of this. We’ll have to see what they wind up being.

  94. JK47

    See, you can’t really root for this team in a conventional way, where you hope for the team to play well and win. You have to take this shit in as farce. That’s the only way to enjoy any of it. I know the Knicks are never going to win anything, but it’s always fascinating watching the operatic ways in which they chronically fuck things up.

    This is Jack Tripper walking into the kitchen door or Inspector Clouseau ruining the piano. The exaggerated comical farcical nature of it all is pretty entertaining, you have to admit.

  95. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    One day, when I have matured, the genius of Phil Jackson’s tenure as the GM of the Knicks will dawn on me. Until then, I will continue to think that winning 17, 33, and 31 games while clogging up the cap sheet was maybe uh less than stellar.

    This is why we don’t communicate.

    I never said Phil was a genius or great as an executive. I disagreed with a lot of what he did. But I’ve always said he wasn’t nearly as bad as his press or people here think. I understood his thinking even when I disagreed with it. I think the current guys are just idiots without any idea how to evaluate basketball talent or value. Anything good that happens will be an accident.

  96. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    Depending on the picks…I might be in favor of this. We’ll have to see what they wind up being.

    Dallas’ firsts aren’t even going to be good if they’re coming, because Doncic is going to be an MVP candidate by 2021 or 2023.

  97. ess-dog

    I should hate this more than I do, but KP is 1. damaged goods 2. wasn’t ever great to begin with 3. maybe worse than fringe player Luke Kornet who comes at a fraction of the cost? and 3. we get another 1st rounder I guess but when? 4. DSJ can still be moved in a separate deal, and 5. Lots of room for big-time free agents.

    But on the other hand, you’d like to get the best player in a trade.

  98. Farfa Post author

    Wow this is unbelievable. I will never write a haiku in my life again.

    Also: many of us wanted KP and Doncic to play together so…

  99. JK47

    I think the current guys are just idiots without any idea how to evaluate basketball talent or value. Anything good that happens will be an accident.

    Well you’re 100% right about this. These chucklefucks have no clue what they are doing. We’re in that familiar place where we here at KB know that the front office has no chance of succeeding, but we have to endure several more seasons of train wreck before the next idiot gets a chance to fuck things up.

  100. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    Let’s max Kemba and Middleton, draft Reddish, and get all the way negative baby

  101. Bruno Almeida

    Yeah, bury this fucking franchise. There should have been interest by like 10 other teams in Porzingis and they trade him for 2 expiring and the young version of fucking Mudiay just to get rid of the shit contract Mills himself gave THJ.

    This is unbelievable. If there’s not 2 firsts attached to this deal it’s a ridiculous trade already. Fuck Mills and Perry. I’m so annoyed.

  102. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    Looks like it’s all the aforementioned plus Burke and a Dallas pick…

  103. Frank

    @116

    it could theoretically be Dallas’s pick this year if it’s 1-5, and then their pick in 2021 if not conveyed this year. That would be good -we’d have two shots at Zion then.

    One thing I’ll say — Steve Mills is not afraid to cut bait on his past mistakes just because he made them. His two most awful moves were the THJ and Ron Baker contracts, and he’s jettisoned both of them.

    The range of outcomes here is so crazy.

    One could easily fantasize at Kyrie, KD, and Zion being on the team by July.
    I will choose that fantasy.

  104. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    The Nets can have KP for Jarrett Allen and Caris LeVert if he wants to leave town so bad. Let him be a second class citizen to Zion for the rest of his career.

    He’s probably angling to get us to offer him the full max.

  105. bidiong

    We’re going to have huge cap space at least… Maybe we can rent cap space for picks for a few years. Do something right for once.

  106. Farfa Post author

    I don’t particularly hate the move in itself. What I hate, though, is that I’m 100% certain that under Carlisle KP will become a .150 WS/48 player who never shoots from midrange again.

  107. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    This only makes sense if they have 2 high caliber free agents locked up for the off season. If they don’t, they are doing the same thing that Walsh/D’Antoni did in shooting for Lebron and potentially striking out and winding up with Melo and Amare.

  108. Bruno Almeida

    @125

    Yeah, transform this shit into a circus already, there must be a way to make the league intervene and make Dolan sell the team.

    We spent years talking about how stuff would never change as long as he was in charge, and well, here we are, they haven’t changed shit.

  109. JK47

    We’re going to have huge cap space at least… Maybe we can rent cap space for picks for a few years. Do something right for once.

    Anybody who thinks this cap space is not going to be spent on Kemba Walker and whoever else has the highest PPG just doesn’t understand the Razor

  110. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    from netw3rk, who might be on to something:

    so KP walked into a meeting, got mad, and 35 seconds later the team had a trade to the mavs all set? bullshit. they leaked it to put the blame on KP and have been shopping him, it seems, for a while.

  111. Farfa Post author

    @135 Yeah, this looks like the Tracy McGrady deal again, only worse.

    Damn, this thing is so unbelievable I’m considering to write a recap of next game anyway only using my iPhone and a random meme generator.

  112. heavencent35

    Yeah trading porzingis we could get more value. I know other teams can offer better players. Even potential players. whew.
    Maybe the management had a distaste with porzingis after the meeting but again they should have gotten better value. and why De Andre Jordan

  113. bidiong

    We’re going to have huge cap space at least… Maybe we can rent cap space for picks for a few years. Do something right for once.

    Anybody who thinks this cap space is not going to be spent on Kemba Walker and whoever else has the highest PPG just doesn’t understand the Razor

    I’m not saying it’s going to actually happen…

  114. thenamestsam

    I sort of see the logic of trading KP – I mean it was mere days ago that we were having legitimate arguments on this board about whether his next deal is likely to be a positive asset at all. But using it to clear space instead of going for assets is just insanely risky. They’re so, so all-in on free agency now.

  115. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    i got a beer, time to start getting drunk while waiting for phd admissions to come back

  116. bidiong

    There may have not been as much of a market for him as people are thinking. Who here would want us to trade for him if he wasn’t on the team?

  117. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    Shams:

    Sources: All-Star Kristaps Porzingis is planning to inform the Dallas Mavericks his intent is to sign the qualifying offer in restricted free agency this summer.

    WHAT is going on

  118. Farfa Post author

    @152

    HAHAHAHAHAH WHAT THE HELL

    PLEASE KILL ME NOW WHY I’M SUDDENLY SO EXCITED AGAIN TO WATCH THIS TRAINWRECK OF A TEAM

    I THINK I HAVE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME

  119. dtrickey

    If the reports are correct that KP wanted out, I think that hurts the fans more. I know here at KB we take a fairly level headed approach, but so much hope was placed on KP by the fans. Obviously there is probably a bit more to it, but it feels like a real kick in the balls, especially when KP hasn’t played all season.

  120. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Well at least we have Dennis Smith Jr. (someone please shoot me)

  121. Owen

    Well, we will win a bunch of games the rest of the way with Deandre and Cobra Kai …..

    Jesus Christ. What are we missing here?

  122. ess-dog

    Is it possible we’ll flip these expirings, picks, DSJ, and MitchRob to N.O. for Davis? Because that’s not so very Knicksy, is it?

  123. geo

    oh well…fuck him…

    getting rid of timmy and lee was gonna cost “something”…i thought we might be able to do it with knox, frank, and maybe a couple of seconds…

    turns out it took our “franchise” player to do it…

    man, we really need to sign wisely this summer…

    funny thing is – i’m not sure now if this means we’re tanking again next season?!?!?

  124. thenoblefacehumper

    KP is signing the fucking QO?! The players association should step in and tell him how astray his idiot fucking brother is leading him. That is completely batshit.

    The dude could’ve done literally nothing and gotten a max deal despite coming off an ACL tear. Instead…he’s gonna play for 1/7 or whatever it is? This is malpractice. This is what happens when you make the Latvian Johnny Drama your agent.

  125. Farfa Post author

    I’m spiraling into manic fits of hysteric laughter

    Next lineup will actually be DSJ Dot Knox Vonleh Jordan

    Can you believe this

    Seriously my head is spinning

  126. geo

    Well at least we have Dennis Smith Jr. (someone please shoot me)

    must have been that triple double he got against the worst team in the league – us…

  127. marechal

    Getting players with a sub-.4 FG percentage must be the new market inefficiency the Knicks want to exploit.

  128. thenamestsam

    The qualifying offer thing is mystifying. I can understand why he’s desperate to get out of here but Dallas? That’s a pretty good org. with another young euro star, a great coach, etc. They’re not quite a glamour team but they could be pretty good next year if KP is half as good as he clearly thinks he is with tons of future room to grow. Where does he want to be?

  129. ess-dog

    LOL good idea, Porzingii. Definitely don’t go after a big contract when you’re a hemophiliac with a shattered leg.

  130. JK47

    I’m a pretty big skeptic of KP, I think he’s a big injury risk and his production is not commensurate with his reputation but this was not a good idea. Like so many bad Knick moves this comes with enormous opportunity cost– we could have used KP to acquire the things we need, which are young players with upside and draft picks. The ONLY way this works out is if either KD or Kawhi comes here in the offseason, and Kawhi seems like a non-starter. So it’s Durant or bust.

    When that doesn’t pan out, the enormous opportunity cost of this deal will become very obvious.

  131. dtrickey

    Upside is Jordan and Matthews are ideal buyout candidates, which could help the tank and allow us to take a flyer on some D-Leaguer’s for the rest of the season. Plus we are avoiding the inevitable Timmy explosion in the last week. Tank is looking mighty fine.

    It is almost poetic that we were yesterday saying how we should have just taken DSJ. Now we have him, and Frank. The NBA is a strange beast.

  132. heavencent35

    We have the cap space! its time to sign the next courtney lee or thjr or maybe the next noah and package whoever we will draft this year in 2020 :D
    Knicks!

  133. geo

    call me crazy – but, i think this is okay…looks like jordan and matthews are both expiring…dennis smith jr is immediately our best point guard and HOPEFULLY a clear sign mudiay isn’t returning…

    we just cleaned house – finally…

    even if we strike out in free agency – we’re set to tank another year, and, we don’t owe anyone any of our first round picks…

    i’m kind of happy…

  134. ess-dog

    LOL I was just gonna say that without our Tank Commander, Tim Brickaway Jr., our prolific tanking could go astray.

    At least we have someone to beat up on Kanter now (Jordan).

  135. Z-man

    Can’t wait to get home so that I can pour a glass of good scotch, then dunk my scrotum in it and light it on fire.

  136. KJG

    This guy was a diva from the start… should have gotten more, but we won’t miss him… then again, there hasn’t been anything to miss over the last 2 decades so we’re kind of conditioned to get over stuff pretty easily… For me, there was just something about his mediocre play, and his enormous ego, and his brothers enormous ego, that was truly bothersome… i dont think he had ANY connection to NY, or to us, the fans… dont feel sorry for yourselves… you’re in a better place

  137. Grocer

    I wonder whether Matthews or DAJ might bring something in trade before the deadline?

    I fucking hope so.

  138. bidiong

    Can’t wait to get home so that I can pour a glass of good scotch, then dump my scrotum in it and light it on fire.

    Fuck me that was hilarious.

  139. heavencent35

    To be honest. this is the best position we can get. I am tired of porzingis being unproven and talk shits. The crucial thing here what the management will do in the summer. Top pick plus 2 max contract and we will have a new team next year. The brand new KNICKS. Lets just be smart and dont give max to thjr level guys. I hope Durant plus 1. KD please do it. THe knicks kingdom is all your and choose your teammates.

  140. Brian Cronin

    I wonder whether Matthews or DAJ might bring something in trade before the deadline?

    Yeah, it is fair to note that you would hope either one of those guys should at least get you a second. I wouldn’t be surprised, though, if teams balk on it, knowing that the Knicks will undoubtedly be buying them out post trade deadline.

  141. iserp

    :O, unless they know Porzingis is damaged goods, this is simply stupid. Just let your goddamn mistakes expire.

    Let’s brace yourselves for Jimmy Butler and D’Angelo Russell

  142. Brian Cronin

    The Knicks clearly needed to make room on their roster to sign Anthony Bennett. He was the #1 pick! He’s just sitting out there, waiting to be signed! This will turn the franchise around! KP was just a #4 pick! That’s a big step up!

  143. bidiong

    We better be getting Dallas’ 1st round pick this year. I know that pick is going to be the one that vaults to #1.

  144. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    @171

    These guys are fucking idiots.

    They’ll have two max slots going into the off season, but they still basically got Dennis Smith Jr (a player no on else wanted) for Porzingis. Getting cap space sooner has value if you are certain you can put a player into that space that enhances your long term position significantly, but does anyone really believe they KNOW they have 2 stars like Durant and Irving locked up? If they don’t, they should have just eaten the bad contracts for awhile until they came off or were easier to move later.

  145. JK47

    I guess KP and Janis must have told the Knicks they were signing the QO no matter what, so they figured it was time to move him. Still, seems like they could have done better here.

    You’d hope that the chuds that make the decisions for the Knicks would be smart enough to keep the powder dry and rent the cap space to acquire assets if they can’t land Durant. They’re not smart enough, but you’d hope they’d be smart enough.

  146. dtrickey

    I am still not sure I get the KP QO signing. If my math is correct he is forgoing about $23 million next year. I don’t think any of us were in doubt the Knicks would have thrown a max at KP. Either KP and Janis are none too sharp, or they are playing the long con.

  147. bidiong

    I just want to know if we have the 1-4 rights for this year’s pick for Dallas. Could you imagine if somehow we lucked into 1 and 2?

  148. JK47

    Didn’t Dallas already send their 2019 pick to Atlanta? This is the 2021 pick we’re talking about, no?

  149. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    The QO makes sense if he was going to stay in NY.

    1. He believes in himself
    2. He wants to win
    3. He wants to be in a good market with a good organization.

    1. The Knicks management sucks
    2. The Knicks suck
    3. The team is getting worse instead of better.

    If you believe in yourself and are prioritizing winning, you have to want to get out of NY unless you believe they will turn it around quickly.

    What does not made sense is signing the QO in Dallas. They are sending him to a good market, with a good young team, and a great coach. It’s a perfect situation for him. There’s no reason to take any financial risk.

    I guess Phil should have taken one of the deals that were on the table. He knew KP was an injury risk and he knew what he was dealing with with Janis and KP.

  150. Brian Cronin

    Didn’t Dallas already send their 2019 pick to Atlanta? This is the 2021 pick we’re talking about, no?

    Their 2019 pick to Atlanta is protected #1-5 (by the way, doesn’t that make the Hawks trade look even dumber?), so maybe they can say the Knicks can have it if it lands in the top five?

  151. Brian Cronin

    He knew KP was an injury risk and he knew what he was dealing with with Janis and KP.

    “You really have to give Phil Jackson credit for drafting KP.”

    “You really have to get Phil Jackson credit for wanting to get rid of KP.”

    In other words, you just really want to give Phil Jackson credit.

  152. JK47

    Right now there’s a 9.4% chance that Dallas hits on a top 4 pick.

    Our dumbass front office almost certainly did not demand that 9.4% flyer. It’s probably a protected 2021 pick.

  153. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Uhhh he also drafted KP

    We don’t know how this story ends, but I don’t think anyone is that much of a futurist. He realized it as the evidence started coming in (as did I if you recall) and everyone disagreed with the idea of trading him. It was a tough call though. He wasn’t actually injured seriously at that point and the offer wasn’t huge.

  154. Zippy Le Pin

    Zipcode,

    First, I had to share your haikooo with my sister, who doesn’t follow basketball or understand any of your references, just because I thought it was so brilliant I had to share it with someone.

    Second, I was really delighted to see it inspired Farfa to do what he did, which was, well, inspired.

    Finally, you will always be Chrisko (random four-digit number) to me, not Danbury.

  155. Brian Cronin

    wait now – where is everyone seeing this information that we are getting a pick back from dallas?

    Shams has it on twitter.

  156. geo

    got it brian thanks…

    @ShamsCharania
    Sources: Full players involved in Knicks/Mavericks deal:
    Kristaps Porzingis, Tim Hardaway Jr., Courtney Lee, Trey Burke to Dallas.

    Dennis Smith Jr., Wes Matthews, DeAndre Jordan and likely first-round draft pick compensation to New York.

    okay, so, they’ve traded their 2019 pick to atlanta which means it would be their 2021 pick, or, they would need to move someone else on their roster to be able to supply a 2019 or 2020 first round pick…

    yeah, that would be good for us…

  157. geo

    @_JohnGonz
    Kristaps: I want out

    Knicks: OK.

    Dallas: We’ll take him.

    Knicks: Should we call other teams?…nah. Easier this way. Let’s get lunch.

    man, folks are clowning us hard – which is nothing new…again – i don’t think we did that terrible…

    let’s all guess at dallas’ win total next year – maybe 42???

  158. thenoblefacehumper

    Michael Scotto of The Athletic says 2021 and 2023 with some protections, but doesn’t specify.

    If they eventually convey unprotected, it doesn’t really matter. If they eventually convey as seconds…my opinion is going to be very different.

  159. rama got that Fizdale Magic

    I was actually working this afternoon and missed it so, just caught up on here. It’s hard to describe the growing sense of despair and frustration at reading the progression of events from post 41 to 104…I feel physically ill.

    Lasciate ogni speranza, voi che entrate….

  160. thenoblefacehumper

    the atlanta picks is 1-5 protected. hope we give it to us if it is 1-5. thats a good deals. next years pick wont be good anymore

    It’s important to keep in mind that the Mavs play in the West and thus can win, like, 48 games and still be in the lottery.

  161. rama got that Fizdale Magic

    I mean, maybe there is a tacit deal with KD. Maybe someone else as well. Maybe we get lucky in the draft. But if those events don’t play out over the next six months, why go on with this team?

  162. ClashFan

    Well, so much for the patient rebuild. I’m waiting for the final particulars here before weighing in with shock and disgust or hope.

    I’ll repeat something I said awhile back about a DSJ and Mudiay backcourt. Which one of them eats the vaseline?!

    Hey, forget all the debate about DSJ vs. Frank. We have them both!
    :-)

  163. Owen

    I did not know that the Atlanta traded Doncic for a protected first rounder.

    That really is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

    Macs are gong to lose a bunch of games without Jordan and with Timmy Rommeling it out there. If we somehow net a top five pick that would be something.

  164. ClashFan

    Actually, my first reaction is sadness. KP gave us so much hope, but all along there have been the “diva” concerns. People were quick to blame skipping the exit interview as PJ being an asshole (which he is), but clearly some serious ego for KP and his bro.

  165. heavencent35

    yeah that top 5 picks wil be nuts hope its part of the package. Dont want to bad mouth porzingis but i agree with the diva thing. Do you see him as our number 1 guy? i dont even see him play a complete 82 games. hold on. we might just win this deal

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