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Saturday, October 25, 2014

Daily News: David Lee Not Chosen for All-Star Game

Frank Isola just posted a little while ago a piece where he states:

According to a source, Lee will not be one of the seven reserves named to the Eastern Conference All-Star Team. The official announcement of the All-Star reserves from both conferences will be broadcast live on TNT Thursday night.

If true, I would have to think that the recent play of the Bulls pushed Lee out, as Derrick Rose has suddenly become a guy you really can’t leave off of the All-Star team.

If not true, then I can cross Isola off the list of “reporters who you can believe.”

Thanks to commenter DS for the head’s up.

42 comments on “Daily News: David Lee Not Chosen for All-Star Game

  1. Garson

    Although I would have loved to see DLEE represent , I am not that upset for the following reasons:

    A. After a tough rejection from the All Star team, Players usually go into F-U Beast Mode the next couple of games. Id rather see Lee dominate in the next few games then watch him play 4 min in a meaningless game.

    B. The less publicity Lee gets can be good if we would like to resign him next season for less dollars.

  2. Mike Kurylo

    I think Lee should have made it for one reason – he does well in these kinds of contests. Remember when he was MVP of the Sophomore-Rookie game? If the East loses, it’s because they didn’t have David Lee.

  3. ess-dog

    I have no faith in Isola. I will wait to hear it directly from NBA announcers before getting too worked up.

    But if you just go on stats, Lee should be in.

  4. DS

    “I have no faith in Isola. I will wait to hear it directly from NBA announcers before getting too worked up.”

    What about Yahoo Sports?

    “Deron Williams (21st*), Derrick Rose (44th) and Rajon Rondo (22nd) will make their All-Star Game debuts next month in Dallas, sources said Thursday.

    The names won’t be made official until Thursday night, but Yahoo! Sports has obtained the list of reserves.

    The Eastern Conference reserves also include Boston’s Paul Pierce (57th), Chris Bosh (2nd), Gerald Wallace (15th) and Atlanta’s Joe Johnson (31st) and Al Horford (23rd).

    The Western Conference reserves also include Chris Paul (6th), Pau Gasol (41st), Kevin Durant (9th), Dirk Nowitzki (13th), Zach Randolph (10th) and Brandon Roy (30th).”

    That seems reasonable. Wait, HORFORD???

  5. ess-dog

    Wow, just saw the “leaked” list. Rose AND Horford ahead of Lee? Rose maybe even though that gives you 3 pg’s but Horford? He only bests Lee in blocks I think. What a horrible call. I guess you could cite Horford’s better defense, but he’s only an above average defender in my opinion.

    Oh and our pal Zach Randolph made the west squad.

    D’OH ! ! !

  6. Brian Cronin

    I view Horford as basically “The Hawks pick.” It was either going to be him or Josh Smith. They were going to get at least one of them on the team along with Johnson (who was a lock).

    So I still think it is Rose who squeezed out Lee.

  7. DS

    Who are the 3 PG’s? Are you counting Iverson? Wade? I’m sure either of those two could handle the ball for the purposes of an All-Star Game but I don’t have a problem with the coaches feeling the need to recognize at least two, true PG’s as All-Stars.

    Re: Rondo, it’s nice to have another reminder of how well the Balkman experiment has paid off.

    Re: Z-Bo, I cannot believe Memphis is being rewarded for dumping Pau, having no idea that getting Marc Gasol would pay off, and then agreeing to pay Z-Bo even more. Lionel Hollins for best coach in the Universe.

  8. Brian Cronin

    By the by, Horford making the All-Star team sort of makes those comments early in the year where people were upset at Horford having a great game against the Knicks look silly.

  9. DS

    “So I still think it is Rose who squeezed out Lee.”

    I disagree. It’s lame. Being in 3rd place in the East by a half game does not entitle a guy who is averaging under 14 pts and under 10 rebounds to be recognized as one of the best 20-25 players in the league.

  10. GAx

    Isola/Berman/Vescey. When’s the last time any of em wrote an article I couldn’t find written up better/earlier on the knicks blogs?

    That said, I would be ecstatic for David to go back to all-star weekend as a knicks rep in the actual game, both to boost both his and the team’s stature, but if it doesn’t happen it’ll be one less chip for Lee and his agent to lay on the table come summer and the time to re-up with him comes. I’m selfishly okay with that, as anything that helps us retain him would be preferrable to him pricing himself out of our budget with his play.

    God, why have we been so loosey goosey with our picks for decades now? We could probably barely come up with more than a handful of picks over the last twenty years that were good/all-stars. Now that one of our homegrowns has largely achieved his promise, I’d love to keep him around. He’s just a good fit for any future competitive teams and the city in general.

  11. Brian Cronin

    I disagree. It’s lame. Being in 3rd place in the East by a half game does not entitle a guy who is averaging under 14 pts and under 10 rebounds to be recognized as one of the best 20-25 players in the league.

    I’m not saying he deserves it, either. I’m saying that if he didn’t make it, they would have picked Josh Smith instead. So I don’t think he was taking a spot from Lee, because if Horford wasn’t on the team, Smith would be. While with Rose, it was almost certainly his recent play that got him a spot on the roster that he likely didn’t have two weeks ago. And it’s that spot that I think ultimately came from Lee (or Stephen Jackson, I suppose).

  12. rrude

    Anyone interested in commenting on this:

    In his recent chat, I think yesterday, Hollinger said he didn’t think there was a chance Amare would get paid as much as his 16-17mil option for next year and he expected him not to opt out. I also heard some noise about player contracts coming down in general. Personally I do not see Amare as a max player (I don’t see very many players as max players) but what’s at work here if Hollinger’s opinion is true? Is Amare just not worth that much, has his stock fallen, or are teams just getting even more conservative on spending?

    It’s relevant to this thread, because right now I’d rather have Lee than Amare. Lee has shortcomings, but I never question his effort and he seems to have less ego issues. I doubt many other teams would agree since athleticism (whatever that cashes out as) is so highly prized. Still comparing them isn’t as ridiculous today as it would have seemed two years ago. How high could Lee’s next contract go? Hate to think he’d go at 15mil.

    Bosh is the only big man FA coming up that seems like a clear upgrade, and my gut tells me he’s not for NYC. We might very well be trying to resign Lee.

  13. ess-dog

    I think Horford’s the worst pick here. I would go with Bogut over Horford. And Lee’s better statistically than Wallace as well. And Lee has had a really consistent year while Rose and others have not. I think part of the problem is that the league looks at D’Antoni as a stat-inflater, which really isn’t true this year. Also our record kind of hurt him.

  14. tastycakes

    But yes, there are coaches (and sportswriters, who don’t vote) who believe that being on a sub-500 team disqualifies you from consideration. Which is stupid and petty and results in us having many second tier players selected from the top teams, like Mo Williams and Jameer Nelson last year.

  15. Nick C.

    You think some of it is the lingering stench of Isiah, meaning that despite recent decent play the image of a laughinstock is hard to erase.

  16. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, that was a very good piece. And the shout out to Mike was awesome.

    I especially liked the extremely salient point that, basically, the media arbitrarily pays attention to stuff. As Dwyer notes, no one paid any attention to pace, and now they’re all about it – but using it wrongly. So annoying.

  17. Z

    “right now I’d rather have Lee than Amare”

    I would too, but more important is whether LeBron would rather play with Lee or Amare (or Bosh). I think all-star recognition could have possibly helped validate Lee as a legit “Robin”, so I think that even if not being selected does lower Lee’s asking price this summer, it may also be the reason he’s headed elsewhere.

    “Any chance KG takes the All-Star Game off? That would be nice.”

    That’s what it comes down to. Lee’s competition for the all-star slot isn’t Horford, Wallace, or Rose. It’s Garnet knee.

  18. Ted Nelson

    “Derrick Rose has suddenly become a guy you really can’t leave off of the All-Star team.”

    Really? A guy with a TS% of .512 and third on his own team in win shares and roland rating? Derrick Rose making the All-Star team is a huge joke. Hopefully he doesn’t develop the unsubstantiated entitlement that Marbury and Francis developed after being ridiculously overhyped.

    “That seems reasonable. Wait, HORFORD???”
    “I view Horford as basically “The Hawks pick.” It was either going to be him or Josh Smith. They were going to get at least one of them on the team along with Johnson (who was a lock).”

    The Hawks’ picks should have been Horford AND Smith in a perfect world, and Joe Johnson should have stayed at home. Horford is a very good player. Per game stats? Who cares? He is one of the best defensive bigmen in the league, a good rebounder, and a very efficient scorer. In a way, Horford makes up for the lack of a Lee pick since the coaches went with a good player even though his per game stats were poor. The classic David Lee kind of guy, except that he is also an exceptional defender. I have no problem with Horford making the team, and if Lee would step up his defense then he’d be an All-Star.

    “I cannot believe Memphis is being rewarded for dumping Pau, having no idea that getting Marc Gasol would pay off, and then agreeing to pay Z-Bo even more.”

    I believe they did know how good Marc Gasol was, or they wouldn’t have traded his brother for nothing else of value. At the time of the trade Wallace mentioned that people would be surprised at how good Marc is. People who watched him in Spain were not particularly surprised: he was one of the best players in Europe the year before he came to the NBA. Although he has played to the upper end of my expectations.
    All-Star selections aren’t about rewarding teams, though, they are about rewarding players with fat per game stats in 3 categories: points, rebounds, and assists. I really wanted to see Lee make it, but the All-Star game is a joke. Zach Randolph is a classic example of what a joke the All-Star game is. We should start an All-Stat game instead.

    “I would go with Bogut over Horford. And Lee’s better statistically than Wallace as well.”

    I would take Horford over Bogut without question. Bogut is better on the boards, but far less efficient a scorer on only a bit higher volume scoring and a worse defender.
    I viewed Wallace as somewhat of a lock, and am glad coaches had the sense to take him over a higher volume scorer (and thoroughly undeserving player) in Stephen Jackson. Offensively Lee is better, but the Bobs are the 2nd best defensive team in the NBA and Wallace is their best defender (and by far their best player). Wallace has a TS% of .583, so it’s not like he’s a bad offensive player.

  19. Ted Nelson

    rrude,

    Good point. I feel like Amare WILL get a max contact somewhere, between his hype/scoring, the scarcity of bigmen, and all the teams with cap space to throw around. I don’t know that he SHOULD, though, and it would definitely be interesting if he doesn’t. Will also be interesting to see how much Lee gets vs. Amare.

    Teams may be lowering salaries after years of largely mismanaging the cap, but I’m skeptical. Last offseason we were in the middle of an economic free fall of sorts and third or fourth or fifth or tenth tier guys like Hedo, Bargnani, and Ben Gordon still got (over)paid. When teams have cap space they tend to throw it at the first NBA player who walks by, and the more they can throw at him the better. I will be surprised if that changes much.

  20. ess-dog

    Horford is efficient because he never shoots the ball outside of 3 feet from the basket. I also like him, but he is limited. I suppose he’s more of a “traditional” center but Lee and Bogut offer more on the offensive end. Horford is better defensively, I’ll give him that. I guess it’s not clear cut, but I’m used to them picking on scoring/rebounding…
    This leads back to the debate about whether Lee is more of a power forward or more of a center. I still think he would fair better as a pf even though the limited stats do not prove this.

  21. Brian Cronin

    Really? A guy with a TS% of .512 and third on his own team in win shares and roland rating? Derrick Rose making the All-Star team is a huge joke. Hopefully he doesn’t develop the unsubstantiated entitlement that Marbury and Francis developed after being ridiculously overhyped.

    Perhaps I should have been more clear – by “suddenly become a guy you really can’t leave off of the All-Star team,” I mean he was playing well during a stretch where the Bulls were very publicly beating a lot of good teams. Therefore, as the nominal star of the team, Rose suddenly became a guy you really can’t leave off the All-Star team – a “star” player for a hot team. Note that every other team in the Top 8 has a player in the game. I’m not saying it’s logical, but that’s how the voters think.

    Two weeks ago, those problems you wrote about were coupled with the Bulls poor play so that he likely didn’t have a spot (and Lee perhaps did).

  22. kaine

    I follow toronto a lot.
    believe me, I’ d take lee over bosh anytime.

    he’s cheaper
    he’s a fighter
    he’s a better passer

    they share the same weakness on D

  23. Jeff

    Has anyone pointed out that nobody from a team with a losing record, aside from Iverson, was named an all-star? Even the Bulls are at .500 now.

  24. taggart4800

    Definately agree Kaine.
    I do think there is an awful lot of predjudice in this decision. If Horford has those numbers and plays on the Bulls… Not an All-Star. Lee is the ‘guy’ on the Knicks. I seem to remember, either here or on another site, reading the criteria for an MVP. That the players impact on the team was significant enough that his absence would make the team a good deal worse. Mavs without Dirk for instance.
    If you think of the Knicks what do you think of??? Aside from 2010, David Lee. If you think of the Hawks what do you think of…. Josh Smith, Joe Johnson then perhaps Horford if not Jamal Crawford recently. I just think that if you took Lee out of that team it would be unbeleivably poor, New Jersey poor.
    His supporters would say that David Lee practically runs the team from the 5. His detractors would say he runs the team from the 5. Excellent article.
    To cut through all the ranting, i guess what i’m trying to say is that because Lee plays in New York that hurts him. Its fashionable to think that the Knicks aren’t very good. Columnists did seem to enjoy those times where they could just trash the knicks and how much of a mess they were and its this that i think smothers Lee’s chances of being an All-Star. It just wouldn’t sit well with the powers that be if the KNICKS had three guys in the All-Star weekend.

    http://www.nba.com/2010/reportcard/midseason/knicks/index.html
    If i’m not mistaken(which is probably likely) according to the grades the Knicks should be a C. Very much average. Accurate assesment i feel.

  25. Ted Nelson

    Brian,

    Yeah, a guy who they won’t leave off the team, not can’t. I would definitely say they should have left him off. I would say it is inexcusable that he’s on the team, but like you I expected nothing less (or maybe I should say nothing more?).

    I also think being the #1 pick last year and the expectation that this is the first of many play a role in the voters’ minds. Plus that he is an amazing athlete who the coaches watch on film and are subjectively impressed with.

    Jeff re: only .500+ team players reportedly making it

    I don’t think that only players from mid-season playoff teams should make the All-Star game, but in the East who are the other candidates? Lee, Granger, and Bogut are the ones I see. Granger has missed 1/2 the season. Bogut is an inefficient scorer for a bigman. Both he and Lee are mediocre defenders or worse (Boguts probably better than Lee defensively). I think Lee has the best case, and if someone pulls out I hope he makes it.

    In the West Chris Kaman, Tyreke Evans, Monta Ellis… Maggette might be the biggest snub from a sub-.500 team (his numbers are pretty nasty), not that he would probably be next if someone pulls out.

  26. Ted Nelson

    ess-dog,

    That is not correct. Horford takes 50% jump shots/ 50% inside shots. He hits an eFG% of .464 on jumpers. Bogut takes 18% jump shots/ 82% inside shots. He hits .302 eFG% on jumpers. Lee takes 47% jumpers/ 53% inside. He hits an eFG% of .424 on jumpers.

    So, Horford takes a higher % of jumpers than either Lee or Bogut, and also hits a higher %. Both Lee and Bogut are better playmakers than Horford and score at a higher volume. Horford’s efficiency and defense make him a very defensible pick to me, though. He’s also in over Josh Smith because of his attitude vs. Smith’s.

  27. jaddddd1

    Personally, I think Garnett took Lee’s “spot” in the ASG. Yes, he’s one of the best players of all time, probably top 30 (maybe?), but he’s not an All-Star, not this year. Bosh should be the starting PF, and then Lee or Josh Smith probably would get the last spot. Garnett could still pull out because of his knee and one of them could get in.

  28. BigBlueAL

    WTF!!!! The Knicks-Raptors game is the only game on LP tonight yet there is only 1 feed for the game and for some reason it is the freakin Raptors feed. Fuckin sucks.

  29. Roshi

    For what it’s worth, Barkley and Kenny strongly felt that David Lee was the only snub from the All-Star reserves. At least he’s getting some national recognition for making the leap to stardom this year. As has been pointed out, he was likely left out because of the Knicks’ poor record, although I’m still hearing the same nonsense about his play being inflated by D’antoni-ball. Do writers/sports anchors even watch games or look at stats?

  30. d-mar

    Amazing what a difference it makes when all your shots go in and all of theirs don’t! Sort of a mirror image of the last time these 2 teams played.

  31. rrude

    Kaine,

    I agree about Bosh on a certain level, but I think Lee is at his ceiling. Vet savvy will add a bit on both ends of the court, but I don’t think there’s yet another dimension forthcoming in Lee’s game.

    But Bosh I think needs a change of scenery. He could play with more fire, and although I can’t imagine his stats improving, the aspects of his game that make you say you’d prefer Lee might improve quite a bit in a different situation. That doesn’t make him more ‘root-able’ granted, but I do think if he’s play his hardest he’s a better player.

    Translation: he could play better defense; Lee, I’m not so sure.

  32. rayhed

    Haven’t read through all the comments, but i must agree that this is a real travesty… lee’s stats over the pasts month or so have been absolutely freakish and the knicks arent even that bad anymore- that someone like devin harris could have made it quit handily last year on such a shitty team, but dlee can’t make it this year over horford or rose is really unfathomable… rose has only recently been playing well on an extremely talented ballclub and horford isnt even the second best/most important player on his team… id really like to hear from some of the coaches who voted against our man

    also, wouldve liked to have seen monte ellis make it for the west- pau started strong but has been playing pretty standard lately… ellis has been one of the most exciting and impressive players all season

  33. rayhed

    Also, i think the the hating on z-bo should stop for now…. he’s having a great season and the grizz are playin real well… whether or not you think hes a good player, you can’t deny hes having a great season and helping a team succeed…

  34. ess-dog

    Ted,

    I know usage doesn’t matter in stats, but Lee has taken over 230 more shots this year than Horford – and is a better rebounder. And what constitutes a “jumper”? Because Horford does not have a high quality 15 foot jumper from what I’ve seen. Again, I do think Horford is a very good player, but he’s surrounded by Smith, Johnson and Williams. I just believe Lee has played better this year (the Bogut comment for this year really doesn’t apply.)

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