Congratulations to Mitchell Robinson for Making the Second Team All-Rookie Team!

Woj tweeted out the results for the All-Rookie Team!

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Wow, the first five picks all made the first team of the All-Rookie team! That must be the first time that that has ever happened, right?

Mitch should be first team, but hey, better than not being on the team at all!

How grainy is that photo? Weird to see Woj tweet out such a grainy photo.

74 replies on “Congratulations to Mitchell Robinson for Making the Second Team All-Rookie Team!”

Frank’s TS could be a lot better just by becoming lower usage and changing his 3p rate from 40% to 60%. Whatever, keeping Frank at this point is not a hill i’m willing to die on

There’s two points with Frank:

– One is we didn’t do Frank any favors in his development, and there’s a much smarter way to use him.

– Another is that it doesn’t matter how you use him, he’s too inept to be an NBA player.

It’s quite possible they’re both correct.

have we ever all agreed on a positive thing as much as we agree on Mitch? Maybe early Landry Fields? Steve Novak shooting 3’s? Clyde’s vocabulary?

Wow, the first five picks all made the first team of the All-Rookie team! That must be the first time that that has ever happened, right?

Apparently it happened in 1984 too: Hakeem, Bowie, MJ, Perkins, and Barkley.

have we ever all agreed on a positive thing as much as we agree on Mitch? Maybe early Landry Fields? Steve Novak shooting 3’s? Clyde’s vocabulary?

Trading Zach Randolph’s and Jamal Crawford’s contracts away (on the same day?). David Lee. Jeremy Lin for a few weeks.

Yup, Hubert, I misread you.

I think there was a lot to be excited about with KP early on. He plateaued while increasing scoring volume over the next two years and that’s a terrifying place to be as a critical Knicks fan. I thought he was a lock for a max, although given the Curse of Charlie Ward, one would’ve been smart to bet against him (or any other Knick) getting an extension.

I am looking forward to trading Mitch and three unprotected firsts for him in the last year of his Dallas max, though.

Yeah, cool how that worked out. But in a redraft would they all go top 5 again?

Yeah, cool how that worked out. But in a redraft would they all go top 5 again?

You’d certainly hope that Robinson would have worked his way into the top five, but even in that scenario, I don’t know who gets bumped. I guess Bagley? Could it possibly be Ayton, even? JJJ, Trae and Doncic are all absolute studs who would still get drafted over Mitch.

Mitch should have absolutely made 1st team ahead of Marvin Bagley. He’s a fine player, but I’d much, much rather have Mitch.

I would personally take Mitch over Bagley, JJJ and Ayton, but I’m probably being a bit of a homer. Ayton specially had a very good rookie year too, he’s a pretty good scorer and rebounder already. JJJ’s low rebounding numbers scare me a bit, but he also showed a lot of promise and he seems perfect for the current NBA play style. I like Bagley the least out of all these guys, but I wouldn’t be unhappy having him on our roster too.

Nah, Mitch didn’t make 1st team because of per-game stats (especially PPG), foul trouble that impacted MP, and a disconcerting amount of pine-riding when he was available. No homerism there.

It was a pretty good draft year. Too bad our playoff run kept us from being in the high lottery.

Congrats to M-Rob. Yeah, I developed a man-crush very early, during summer league. I reiterate my hatred of the thoughts that we could trade him and a bucket full of draft picks for AD. It makes my blood boil a bit. When’s the draft? When can we sign free agents? What? We have to wait for the NBA finals to end? What kinda crap is that?

I’m not all that big on Ayton yet. But even winding up with the consensus 6th pick in a redraft is pretty cool!

@11 that’s really funny Brian. I also came across this Onion headline:

“Zion Williamson Excited To Play For Team With Proven History Of Frittering Away Generational Talents”

It was a pretty good draft year. Too bad our playoff run kept us from being in the high lottery.

It really did hurt a lot not to be top five in this draft. Ugh.

Well, at least they’re #3 in this year’s draft! That’s something!

I take Doncic for sure over Mitch. Probably JJJ. That’s it.

I don’t necessarily disagree, but I think it’s fair to say that in an actual redraft, Trae easily goes over Mitch. I think it goes Doncic, Trae, JJJ, Ayton and then either Bagley or Mitch.

We didn’t need a top 5 pick, Mitch and Shai would have been just fine.

We didn’t need a top 5 pick, Mitch and Shai would have been just fine.

Doncic and Mitch would have been a tad better. 😉

But yeah, it is kind of fascinating that the Knicks could have easily had Mitch and SGA.

@18 agreed, but I’m less of a Trae fan than some, mostly due to his size and frame. Dude can ball, tho.

OK, two rookie stat lines:

PER TS FTr. TRB% AST% ST% BL% WS. WS/48. BPM VORP

22.0 .692 .464 16.3 4.2 1.8 10.0 6.1 .217 5.7 2.7
21.7 .559 .333 16.8 6.1 2.2 5.1 6.1 .159 2.3 2.0

Pretty comparable, no? Both players are clearly making a very positive immediate impact. Obviously, it’s Anthony Davis and Mitchell Robinson – and though AD is better, it’s pretty close, right? Certainly enough to make up for one being on a #1 draft pick pay scale and the other being signed for three more years at $1 million a year.

Whoops, my bad – the first line is actually Mitch’s. Yeah, he was better in his first year than AD. And some boneheads are like, “hey, whatever it takes to get The Brow, man, win curve, gotta do it now if we get KD and Kyrie.” A few days ago I was derided for saying that paying Mitch 1/20th to get 80% of what AD provides is a far superior choice than trading him even straight up for AD. But judding by his first year, Mitch may be providing MORE than 80% as early as next year, and almost certainly in two years…when he still has yet another season at, I remind you again, $1 million. Mitch’s BB IQ seems really high, as he visibly improved throughout his first year, and he put up those numbers after a year of NOT PLAYING BB AT ALL. No college, no highly touted prospect like AD. If you don’t think he’s likely to improve in his second year, just as AD did, then you’re an idiot.

Looking at the rookie numbers, considering the contracts, weighing how frequently AD seems to be injured, the story seems really clear to me – DO NOT FREAKING TRADE MITCH, FOR ANY REASON, FOR ANY PLAYER, AT ANY COST!!

Not to mention, he’s a player whose primary value comes from defense and rim-rolling, which seems an ideal complement to two players who need the ball in their hands.

I’d take Doncic over Mitch without question, but how much do you think Doncic will earn from the Mavs over the next 12 years? $400M? $450M? I think Mitch is going to provide more value with less risk. Given that Capela couldn’t even get a max (when he deserved it at the time), there’s a good chance that we see Mitch locked up for less than half the cost of a Doncic while being a Gobert-sized impact on team defense.

Again, Doncic is a future MVP candidate, but he will get PAID.

Jaren Jackson Jr is essentially Serge Ibaka without the rebounding. That’s a very useful player and his ball handling makes things very interesting, but that’s not exactly a guy I’d for sure take over Mitchell Robinson.

@22…that some really good stuff rama…even my statistically challenged self can see the value in keeping mitch over using him to acquire AD…

a lot of good posts recently regarding team building this summer…

i’m okay with: DSJ, dotson, RJ, knox, and mitch getting run out there next year for a good chunk of the minutes played…

the thought though about possibly bringing in KD and kyrie is pretty enticing, especially for a win starved franchise like ours…

which is to say – i could also understand cashing in our one excellent young piece, possibly this year’s #3, any other young player on our roster, future draft picks, and lance 🙂 to acquire some ready to win now talent…AD, beal, and other guys out there can help us win now, if we get 2 top tier free agents…

it’s initially all based on the desires of free agents, but, still and all…some tough choices for mills and perry…

if KD or kawhi doesn’t sign here – go with the kids…if KD and another top free agent do come aboard – time to start making deals to win now, and, hopefully they can figure out a way to hold on to mitch…

Damn Rama, you just schooled suckas. I’ve been on the fence but I think you just convinced me. KEEP MITCH!

It really just goes to show too how much narrative and pedigree play a role in how much these dudes end up getting paid. Once you start further back in the draft, etc…no matter how good you are, unless you reach Lilliard or Butler level, you will make far less money in your career than a bust who was drafted in the top 10 and went to UNC or some other known school.

If Mitch goes to college and tears up

Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!says:

I like Mitchell a lot, but imo Anthony Davis was a better rookie. He had a much more diverse skill set and was more likely to blossom into an all around superstar than Mitchell is. He was also a bit younger. That’s not to say Mitchell can’t expand his game and skills, but right now he’s seen as more of Clint Capela/Tyson Chandler type player that can impact the game on defense and score efficiently on limited usage inside. He’s not seen as an all around superstar or dominant inside scorer with post and other moves that can rack up usage efficiently. It’s on him to change that perception by coming back from the off season with more offensive skills. Either way, he’s a fast learner and we are lucky to have him. He’ll look good next to Durant and Kemba/Kyrie if we can make it happen.

Well done Mitch. Proving what we have known all year.

Interesting to note (via Mike Vorkunov on Twitter), Knox received 22 2nd team votes, while Trier received 10 2nd team votes. Kurucs was 16th with 9, while bothe Bridges and Okohgie were the only other rookies to get 1st team votes. So based off that, technically speaking the Knicks had (purely in accordance with voting) the 9th, 12th and 15th best rookies in the class.

The stats definitely tell a different story, but that is encouraging when looking at it from the perspective of how the wider NBA community views our young core (and their trade value potentially *wink, wink*).

Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!says:

Yeah but we got Kevin Knox…..

Let’s assume we sign Durant/Kemba but Davis decides to stay in NO or someone just outbids us.

That means we have Mitchell, Durant, and Kemba/Kyrie as the almost definite starters unless they bring back Jordan cheaply and he starts for awhile based on experience.

There’s probably a pretty good chance that Barrett wins the starting SG/SF position or at least earns it not too far into the season. That’s already enough scoring. What we’d really need is a defensive stopper. Depending on whether Durant is playing SF or PF and Barrett is playing SG or SF in various lineups, what we need is a defensive stopper to add to them. That’s not Knox.

Mitch improved so quickly, I don’t think it is stupid to project 80% of AD’s growth…especially given where he was starting from. His rookie numbers were flat-out better, so whatever the perceived limitations of his game, it would be difficult to argue that any non-measurable intangibles make him significantly worse. He doesn’t have to become another player to come close to keeping up. Factor in that salary, I don’t see how you trade him for almost anyone, period. The excess value is just insane. It gives you SOOOOOO much room to add other great players.

As swift said, if he weren’t a second round pick, people would see this more clearly. But he was…which for once was our luck.

Depending on whether Durant is playing SF or PF and Barrett is playing SG or SF in various lineups, what we need is a defensive stopper to add to them. That’s not Knox.

In that case, though, I suspect there’s still enough shine on Knox that we can trade him for an older defensive role player type.

If we actually get Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving, I’d offer the top 10 protected Dallas pick, Kevin Knox, and Dennis Smith Jr to Minnesota for Robert Covington. Irving, Barrett, Durant, Covington, and Mitch? Talk about a tough team.

Yeah but we got Kevin Knox…..

It will be interesting to see if/when Michael Porter Jr. comes back 100% and how good he will be.

@34

Can someone enlighten me as to why Covington is valued so highly? Seems like he’s a solid 3 & D making the average salary. Why is he worth a first rounder + multiple recent lotto picks? I’d rather just keep those guys and hope one of them breaks out. Even if Knox/DSJ/future 1st aren’t individually that exciting, it seems like there’s a pretty good chance that one of them develops into a better player.

didi is getting closer to returning…gonna be tough to sit lemahieu when torres moves back to second…not sure where tulowitzki will play – can’t take out urshela now…i think i’ve finally given up on bird…

didi is getting closer to returning…gonna be tough to sit lemahieu when torres moves back to second…not sure where tulowitzki will play – can’t take out urshela now…i think i’ve finally given up on bird…

Didi at SS, Gleyber at 2B, Urshela at 3B, LeMahieu where ever they need him on that particular day, and Tulowitzki…on the coaching staff.

That’s how I bet they’ll do it to start.

Can someone enlighten me as to why Covington is valued so highly?

He was just the main return for Jimmy Butler, so Minny values him pretty high.

Can someone enlighten me as to why Covington is valued so highly?

Known as a very good defender, not old, and has a solid outside shot. I don’t think anyone would give him a second thought without the superstars already in place. He’s the kind of guy you should only want if you have elite volume shooting and players who can create corner threes with dribble penetration.

I heard Frank made James Harden want to quit basketball then he went in a time machine and prevented that MJ 55 point game at the Garden

@22, Rama 100. IMO, I’d trade Mitch for 1 player: Zion. And if we won lotto? Could you imagine Zion and Mitch on NYKs? Sublime.

@39

Was he? It seemed to me at the time that he was at best 1B to Dario Saric’s 1A in that deal. Saric looked fairly promising coming off a .137 WS/48 sophomore year and had 2 cost-controlled years left.

@40

I get that he’s a great piece to round out a win-now core, but do you think DSJ + Knox + 1st rounder is a fair price?

Mitch improved so quickly, I don’t think it is stupid to project 80% of AD’s growth…

The problem is the law of diminishing returns. A player can’t keep improving at the same rate. As a player gets more skilled, the harder it gets to improve that skill.

Also, while Mitch put up better numbers than AD did during his rookie year, AD showed more promise in lots of areas that Mitch didn’t. AD scored on a higher volume and showed more ability to pass.

It’s easier to find a center than a PF and Davis can play PF. Davis’s skillset let’s him play a more difficult position. It’s not that difficult to find a center that can rebound, block shots, and dunk the ball. Kyle OQuinn can do all those things and signed for almost nothing, not to say KOQ is on Mitch’s level, but the point still stands. There’s a surplus of those talents in the league.

Finally, salary doesn’t matter. The Knicks will be capped out. The extra salary the Knicks save on Mitch is just less money out of Dolan’s pockets, it has no practical effect on our teams during a KD championship window. Even if Mitch adds 80% of what AD does, I’d rather have AD since I can only play 5 players anyway and his extra salary is irrelevant.

AD, Kyrie, and KD have a legit shot at a championship. I can’t say the same about a lineup with Mitch. You’re underestimating how important a high usage and high efficiency player is on offense. Mitch could develop all that, but he hasn’t and there’s no guarantee he will add all the skills AD brings to the table. I’d love to have Mitch after the max guys leave, but there’s no guarantee we see as strong of a championship when that happens.

Mitch has a chance to be a better defensive player that AD. He will never compare to him offensively.

Mitch might not have a typical learning curve. He played no college ball and was thought to be so raw that he would have to play in the G League, and then he got some burn in the NBA and started balling the minute he stepped on the floor.

Then over the course of the season he improved pretty obviously and rapidly. He seems to be bursting at the seams with talent. I wouldn’t rule out the kid adding a very effective jump shot to his arsenal or doing whatever he feels like doing honestly.

Kahwi is a real ruff ryder…. He looks like he is reprising the Walter Brennan role of “Grand – pappy Amos” from “The Real McCoys!”

Not for nothing, but Mitch was also a year older than AD was in their respective rookie seasons. Comparing their Age 20 seasons, AD’s season was a lot better.

Personally, I’m not for the Mitch and the kitchen sink for AD trade scenario. The Celts were insistent about keeping Rondo in their big-3 dealings. Without him, there’s no championship. Mitch is too valuable an asset at his price to give up for a cap-killing 3rd star.

If we make the deal, obviously I’ll roll with it, but filling out the roster will be tough.

I still don’t see the Pelicans saying we’ll trade one of the 5 or 6 best players in the NBA for Mitchell Robinson, two terrible players and some bad picks.

I get that he’s a great piece to round out a win-now core, but do you think DSJ + Knox + 1st rounder is a fair price?

I agree with you. I like Covington but some of these trade proposals for him are crazy. Smith, Knox, and a 1st? Someone suggested Barrett the other day.

If…. KD and Kyrie both sign, I don’t see how you can let Mitch get in the way of trading for AD as much as I hate to say it.

On the Lowe Post they were saying Had Love and Irving not been injured in 2015 the Cav’s might have beaten GS twice and not once.

An AD, KD and Kyrie threesome lines up pretty well with Kyrie, Love and LeBron.

@48 sure, I can see him improving dramatically, but he’s starting from ground zero…literally. He is totally useless beyond arm’s reach of the basket. AD is one of the most skilled big men ever. He has 1,000 different ways to score that don’t involve layups, dunks and put-backs. Mitch will never, ever get there.

Man, I underestimated the Raptors. They are just demolishing the Bucks!

I still don’t see the Pelicans saying we’ll trade one of the 5 or 6 best players in the NBA for Mitchell Robinson, two terrible players and some bad picks.

Interesting POV….but where is the trade (and we are assuming there must be a trade) that can bring a better player than MR ( plus cost controlled for 3 more seasons at the league minimum) and better picks than this years guaranteed #3 and the 2 Dallas picks plus whatever flotsam and jetsam ( Knox, DSJr)?

Well, look at the all-rookie voting-a bunch of relatively knowledgeable people who cover the NBA for a living thought Mitchell was the 4th best big from last year’s draft class. I think Mitchell is one of the more valuable players in the NBA, but I don’t think the league agrees with me. I guess the 3rd pick this year is a nice piece, but after that we have our picks-which won’t be good if we’re getting KD and AD-and the Dallas picks, which might be okay but again I think the league consensus is that Dallas is a team on the upswing. And then we have a bunch of kids who are not good at all.

The AD highlight reel transitioned into a LeBron reel. There really can’t be any question that he’s the most complete basketball player ever. Maybe not the most clutch, or the most killa, but man, his highlights are other-worldly.

Man, I underestimated the Raptors. They are just demolishing the Bucks!

Will the Warriors still impress you if they beat the Raptors instead of the Bucks?

If…. KD and Kyrie both sign, I don’t see how you can let Mitch get in the way of trading for AD as much as I hate to say it.

On the Lowe Post they were saying Had Love and Irving not been injured in 2015 the Cav’s might have beaten GS twice and not once.

An AD, KD and Kyrie threesome lines up pretty well with Kyrie, Love and LeBron.

I’m not absolutely against trading Robinson for Davis (I really don’t want to, but I can’t say I would 100% say no if that’s what it came down to), but if he’s in the deal, I don’t think Barrett can also be in the deal. That’s the point where I would just walk away and say, “If other teams can beat this offer, then so be it.”

Well, look at the all-rookie voting-a bunch of relatively knowledgeable people who cover the NBA for a living thought Mitchell was the 4th best big from last year’s draft class. I think Mitchell is one of the more valuable players in the NBA, but I don’t think the league agrees with me. I guess the 3rd pick this year is a nice piece, but after that we have our picks-which won’t be good if we’re getting KD and AD-and the Dallas picks, which might be okay but again I think the league consensus is that Dallas is a team on the upswing. And then we have a bunch of kids who are not good at all.

You failed to address the points raised:

Who is the available player/players with more value than MR and where are the picks more valuable that this years #3 and Dallas’s 2 picks? With the new flat lottery you can’t ever be anywhere near sure the worst team will have a very high pick.

The Knicks DO have assets available to make a trade here. Boston’s 14, 20 and 22 this year and Memphis’s 2020 unprotected along with Tatum? Is that really better?

MR being a homeboy who would likely want to play his whole career in NOLA rather than flying the coup like every other good player to pass through there may have some bearing to management too.

You know who would make the perfect backup PF/C, who is familiar with the Knicks organization, and could be had for the vet min?

Kyle O’Quinn!

Also don’t trade Mitch. As much as I want a championship, I also want long-term success. There is nothing better in basketball than being the Spurs. I’d prefer to hang onto him for the duration of what looks to be a very productive career.

Yeah, I think O’Quinn would be a great vet minimum guy next season. He was one of the guys I think we discussed a while ago as viable vet minimum pick-ups among this year’s free agent crop if the Knicks got KD and KI.

The Raptors just made this a very interesting series now, and that’s with Kawhi hobbling and clearly not 100%. I still think Milwaukee is a superior team, but if the Raptors supporting cast shows up like this for two more games, they’re in the finals.

It’s rough because whoever goes through will be exhausted against the super rested fully healthy Warriors, which should probably mean there’s very little chance of an upset. But at least we’re going to get a very exciting eastern finals!

Boston’s 14, 20 and 22 this year and Memphis’s 2020 unprotected along with Tatum? Is that really better?

Is it really better? Maybe not. Will the Pellies think it’s better? Probably. Plus Boston has other solid young NBA players like Smart and Brown to throw in. They’re not great, but they’re better than two of the worst players in the NBA and Dennis Smith

Knicks have had all-rookie selections in 7 of the last 9 years. Fields, Shump, THj, Galloway, zinger, Willie and now Mitch.

Given none has stuck into a second contract and all except the last couple are journeymen, does this a) tell us that all-rookie selections tell us little or b) that we suck beyond measure at developing young players?

Bit of both I suspect – but there’s a good chance Mitch is the best of the lot so if ever we were going to stick with a guy keyboard it be now.

Also, if we can get AD for RJ, some combo of Knox, Frank and DSj, and picks that is grand larceny. In that trade the young guys are being treated as assets when they have almost no real value.

But if we have to add Mitch, for me it’s no deal. And even though I think you have to trade 3 for AD if it’s there, there’s still a big part of me would like to see us just draft RJ and run a young team out again best year.

As with others, it all depends on KD. You definitely can’t trade for AD unless you know there’s at least one other star coming

Will the Warriors still impress you if they beat the Raptors instead of the Bucks?

Probably not. What it would mean is that I overrated the Bucks. If they lose to these Raps, they’re simply not a great team. Or Budz is not a great coach.

That defensive scheme of “build a wall” vs. GA is giving them fits. One advantage Toronto has over GSW is that they’re longer. But Draymond is a GOAT-level defender…

Is it really better? Maybe not. Will the Pellies think it’s better? Probably. Plus Boston has other solid young NBA players like Smart and Brown to throw in. They’re not great, but they’re better than two of the worst players in the NBA and Dennis Smith

Stipulating the the Knick’s young players suck other than MR (Knox is a baby and does have legit “potential” and already is 6’10” and can shoot 3’s well) saying Jaylen Brown is a “solid young player” is pushing it. After 3 years in the league playing with primo coaching for a top organization he is still distinctly below league average after playing 5400 NBA minutes. Plus he’s going to get paid at the end of next year. Smart is a nice player who had an outlying year shooting 3’s. Neither of them moves the needle much.

And what’s the point of getting AD on Boston if you have to send Tatum, Smart and Brown as well as a gaggle of low first round picks picks? To play with a crippled G Hayward and an old Al Horford? Good luck with that….

are the raptors that good, or, is milwaukuee not as good as they may have seemed?

i was a little surprised last night…i don’t think it’s all on giannis…not sure if the issue is with bud, or, specific players not performing well…

Raptors are really good, especially when Kawhi is operating with all of his Xeon processor cores firing. They’re also deep as hell. I still see the Bucks pulling it out. Neither team will get steamrolled by the Warriors, but the Warriors look impossibly good right now.

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